Mac: 00:00:00

Alright, Yay!

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Welcome to Going Rogue!

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Where we unleash the unthinkable to

take our thinking to the edge of our

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comfort zone and create a new narrative.

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And so We're on the edge

tonight, as always, got

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Rev: Here.

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Good to see ya, good to see both of you

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Mac: and of course, Coach Stu.

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Ready to go rogue?

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I do think we might take a common topic,

maybe that people might think about and

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definitely go a little bit unthinkable.

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To some places that we might not

have couched it this way before.

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But, but the really cool thing

about this, this episode.

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And they're all kind of

unique, but this is take two.

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Rev: Yes, it is.

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We did this episode.

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We recorded another episode with the

same title with so I say slightly

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more political bent to it could

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be maybe a little, oops, I don't know.

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Or just not there yet.

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Mac: Here's the cool thing.

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And this is what I wanted to

say to all of you out there.

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We learned to think and

see things differently.

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Just like you.

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We don't get it all figured out.

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We're not these gurus

on top of the mountain.

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We had to wrestle with some stuff.

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We had to kind of come

together over some things.

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And it was beautiful.

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I mean, it was really, really

beautiful, and this is what we're

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trying to help encourage all of

you out there to do the same thing.

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And maybe sometimes we don't always get

it right, but we're committed to it.

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That's the big thing.

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We're committed to it, to each

other, in love, and to you guys.

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Rev: It's a co creative process.

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We are, the three of us

are co creating something.

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We're co creating with

everybody who's listening.

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And sometimes you just, you know,

you go a little too far and you

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go, Oh, okay, learned something.

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Got a lesson.

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Let's move back a little

bit and let's do it better.

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Coach Stu: We had such a great

conversation the other night,

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just talking about that episode.

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We did.

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And I remember at the end

I said, You know what?

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Every time we talk, we

have got the press record.

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Rev: I know!

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It was the best, it was the best one yet!

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I wish all the rogers could have heard it.

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We were phenomenal!

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Mac: Yeah, we kind of were.

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Yeah, well, I'll just go there

for the rest of you guys.

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Take our word for it.

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So anyway, this is going to be fun.

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This is, again, this is take two, and

the episode is entitled God and Country.

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So right there, when I say those

words to you, already stuff's

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running through your brain.

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Already, you are getting, you're

running it through your grid

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as to what does that mean?

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Do I stay listening?

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Do I punch the button?

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Am I done?

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Do I even want to go there?

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And all I can say

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Rev: is, you know, we

had the same reaction.

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Do I, do I want to do this one or not?

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And we're here.

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We're living up to our

uncomfortable living in.

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Coach Stu: Yeah, right.

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Getting comfortable with

being uncomfortable, but

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wait, I have a question.

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God in country.

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Just want everybody to know,

this is not country music.

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Although we do love country music.

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I hadn't thought about that.

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I had prepared three Willie

Nelson songs for tonight.

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Mac: I got a couple of clips too, man.

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Oh, golly.

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Okay, well we're gonna have to trash that.

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So, stay with us, alright?

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Stay with us, please.

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Because I think we're going to take

these ideas of quote, and I'm gonna put

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them in quotes now, God and country.

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And paint a little bit of a different

picture about how those things separately

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and collectively can be looked at,

gridded, incorporated in your life,

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you know, whatever it might be.

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I really think there's going

to be some great nuggets, so

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hang in there for this, okay?

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So God, God and country.

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You know, the United States has

an election this year, and so

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this kind of topic is part of

what's up there in the field.

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And so, maybe just a little bit of

a history slash civics lesson that

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says, understand that when this

country was founded, You know, people

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came from mainly England, but there

were a lot of people from Spain and

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the southern part, mainly Florida.

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But they came with their religion.

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They came with their idea of God.

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Right?

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And that was a major driving force of

people definitely leaving England because

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of all the turmoil that was happening in

England when it came to the Pope and the

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English, you know, Henry started with

Henry VIII and then all kinds of things

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were, where there was this big division

and there was a lot of religious turmoil

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that caused people to want to come here.

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Now, keep in mind, they brought their

idea of God with them, and whether

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it was a Protestant idea of God or a

Catholic idea of God, they brought it

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with them and that's who they were.

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But let's understand something, not

just about America, that no matter

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where you travel, whether you were

seeking the new world in those

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days, uncovering new places and all

that, two things about those places.

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A, there were already

people there probably.

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Rev: Oh, absolutely were

people there already.

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There is a spirituality that existed on

this land long before people that look

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like me came on a boat and came over and

said, Hey, let me teach you about my God.

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Mac: There's the point that you

can bring your idea of God wherever

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you go and it's good and it's

fine, but God was already there.

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Okay.

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God's already there.

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So when we say God and country,

first of all, that's universal.

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That's global.

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You can go into any country

in the world and God's there.

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And it can be a different idea

that you might have a God, but

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that doesn't diminish it, that

doesn't make it any less valid.

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So God's everywhere.

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And we bring our ideas

of that wherever we go.

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So all countries, if you believe

that there's a creator, if you

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believe that there's a greater, some

sort of power, all countries live

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Rev: under God.

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So you're talking about an infinite

reality, not a finite one, not

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put in a box, not with the walls.

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It's an infinite omnipresent reality

that exists everywhere at all times.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Mac: Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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So nobody gets a claim.

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On God and country.

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Okay?

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Rev: Or, another way to

look at it, is everybody

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Coach Stu: has a question.

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Right?

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Yes.

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God is everywhere.

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Right.

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So, you know me, I'm going

to look at the positive.

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I love that.

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I like it

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Rev: better.

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Mac: I do.

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I like it better.

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Rev: And God is big enough to be shared.

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Right, Rev?

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That and more and more and more.

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Mac: Well, that's the whole idea

about creating God in our image

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instead of God creating us in his

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Rev: or her image.

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Mac: Right.

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So.

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You know, when we say in America.

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You know, one nation under God,

of course, that's my response.

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We

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Rev: love that phrase, right?

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Yeah, of course, of

course, it's a good one.

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Mac: Of course it is.

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And it's not unique to us.

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Now there are certain countries around

the world where their country, I either

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government, I either politics are way

more woven together when it comes to.

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religion and God

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Rev: and country.

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They're in bed together.

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And that's what people came looking

for is let's get the separation here

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of, of church and state a little bit.

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Mac: And we can be thankful for that

in America that we founded this country

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on those very much so because this

is the world that they lived in on

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the premise that we should be able

to be to worship in a whatever deity.

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Or not.

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That we choose to.

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And again, as Americans, and other

places in the country, and in the

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world too, we're not saying, again,

we gotta lock on that either.

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But that's a very special, precious

thing that we can be thankful for.

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And

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Coach Stu: that feels good to me.

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I get to choose.

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I get to choose to believe and

honor God in the way I want, or not.

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I get to choose not to if that's,

if that's my, that's what's,

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that's what's great about being

here in the United States.

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It would be, because many

places you cannot do that.

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You are being told how you're

supposed to think and believe.

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Mac: Absolutely.

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And that's not what we're founded on.

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And if you go back to again, maybe give

it a little bit more of a Christian

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bent from our standpoint, and you begin

to look to Jesus and how he taught.

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Yeah.

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And his perspective and, you know,

think about the world that he lived

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in with the Romans and the Jews.

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You know, he was able to separate those

things out enough that he didn't demean

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or diminish, you know, either one.

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But he said, look, okay,

you know, live life.

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You know, it's such that the

wonderment of God takes your breath

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away every day, and all the rest

of it, God takes care of itself.

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Rev: Oh, I love that.

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You used the word worship earlier.

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The word worship, the etymology of the

word just means to recognize value.

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And so I've, I recognize value in All

creation in all of life and the word God

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can get in the way because it begins to

be defined by a narrow, a narrow vision.

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And I bring value and life to everybody's

belief system that's working desperately

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to make the world a better place.

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I bring value.

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So I worship not only the God of my

understanding, but the life that you're

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living and your choice and your, your

decisions to, to, to act that way, to

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be that way, to be kinder, more loving.

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I want to worship that and I don't

want to subjugate you and put you

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under my blanket because you don't

believe exactly the way I do.

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Mac: Hello?

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Rev: I know, I'm the myth

king of the bunny trails.

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You guys

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Mac: out there, okay,

you're hearing this, okay?

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So true.

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So true.

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Right?

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And it's amazing what happens

once a lot of these I'm going

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to call them pebbles in the bag.

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You know, if you're running around

constantly over your shoulder dragging

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this bag of rocks around, you know,

no matter what you're doing, it's

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going to hinder you and inhibit you.

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And the more things you can reach

in, because we put them in there, we

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put them in enough of them in there.

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The more we can reach in and begin to take

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Rev: out.

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What are those pebbles?

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What are those rocks?

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They're boulders actually

we're carrying around.

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What are they?

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Boulders.

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Judgment?

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Yeah.

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Oh, for sure.

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Is that God is in my country

and my country alone?

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So duality and separation?

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Let me throw another boulder in

my pack and I'm weighed down.

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And I think America's weighed

down a little bit because we've

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lost sight of our, our roots.

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Mac: Can't disagree with

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Rev: that a bit.

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Coach Stu: Well, I got, I got

a big boulder named guilt.

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Yeah.

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That one's in there.

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Actually, I've been chipping away at it.

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It's a little bit

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Rev: smaller.

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Mac: Well, we'll get into the

couch therapy session here.

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You know, fear is another one.

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We're going to talk a

little bit about that.

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For sure.

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But there's a lot of that stuff in there.

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And, specifically when it comes to

God and country, We can give, we can

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put lots of rocks in the bag that

distort, that divide, that separate,

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as Rev was saying, and that's not what

unites us as citizens of any country.

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First of all, I mean, it doesn't

matter whether you're American or not.

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Rev: Let me go to an inside edge

here and probably say something that

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might be a little bit offensive.

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Can it be?

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Yeah, okay, rolling.

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What is it that my belief, can my

belief in God, the limited view

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that I have of God, in of itself

become a boulder in my pack?

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Can my religious system become

a heavy burden in such a way?

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That I'm missing God, actually, I'm so

weighed down with my narrow thinking

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that I am missing the extensiveness

and the beauty and the grandeur of what

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God is happening in the United States

and on the planet and everywhere.

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No, I don't think so.

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You don't think so?

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I was about to say, more sure.

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Absolutely.

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Mac: See, most of, but this

is, now this is an inside edge

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thing, just like Rev said.

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Real life.

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We love to think about whatever our

faith is, whatever our belief in God

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is, or whatever, however it fleshes

itself out in our life, that it's good.

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And it is, right?

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But at the same time, have you ever

considered that some of that stuff

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might actually work oppositely?

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For instance, let me just,

let me give you an example.

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We talk about America.

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I've got a country in America right now.

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If you think about the history of America,

And that basically was in, you know, late

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15th century, 16th century, right, that

Jamestown and all those people started

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coming over and they encountered what?

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Natives, right?

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Indigenous

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Rev: people were here.

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Mac: Indigenous people.

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And over the course of the next,

oh, what, 250, 300 years, we pretty

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much wiped them off the planet.

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Right?

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So, in God's name.

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Think about that, how could we possibly

bring shiploads of people from another

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place against their will and put them

into servitude in God's name and not think

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Rev: that that's a boulder?

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Let me take that boulder and

we'll just call that guilt

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that we talked about earlier.

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Guilt.

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Guilt.

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Mac: You know, we've done these things,

and it's not just in America, believe me.

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If you take a look at the

history of Christianity, and

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the things that have been done.

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Rev: It's all religions, all religions

have done horrible things in the

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name of their narrow God and the

humanity carries a bigger boulder

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on their pack as a collective.

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Mac: Can

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Rev: we do it better?

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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Mac: Yes.

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Rev: Yes.

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Amen.

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Mac: There it is.

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Yes.

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Rev: And yes, can we do it better?

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And can I do it better?

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I need to have a resounding yes

from the God of my understanding

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that lives in my heart.

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I can do better than I did yesterday.

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And last year,

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Mac: that doesn't diminish the

good that's been done to this.

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Nope.

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Nope.

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But it's the realization that if

we, you know, it's the Einstein

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definition of insanity, right?

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I mean, it's so simple.

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If we just keep doing the same

old thing and expect a different

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result, that's insanity, right?

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Right.

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So we want to move the needle, Danny.

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We want, we want to, thus, and

we also want to help you, your

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needle, in your tribe, in your

street of influence, in your life.

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And

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Rev: engage so that you can

help us move our needle.

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It's a, it's a great circle of

energy and we all grow together.

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Coach Stu: And the way I see that

needle isn't circular when you think

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about a needle kind of moving like

almost like a half circle, right?

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Like, to me, it's just going forward.

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: 00:16:38

Rev: I don't know if that's

pushing, but it's like, it's

344

: 00:16:40

Coach Stu: just going forward.

345

: 00:16:42

Right?

346

: 00:16:42

I mean, we can learn from the past,

but living there doesn't work.

347

: 00:16:47

We need to, like, move forward,

be in the present moment.

348

: 00:16:51

And continue to learn

and grow and learn and

349

: 00:16:54

Rev: grow and learn and grow.

350

: 00:16:55

Can I be like a circle that's

like elevated each time it

351

: 00:16:58

comes around in the circle?

352

: 00:16:59

It's moving forward the whole time,

but it gets to a higher and higher and

353

: 00:17:03

higher consciousness and a more elevated.

354

: 00:17:05

Spirit I'll take that Yes

355

: 00:17:10

Mac: You're gonna see that flesh out

throughout this whole podcast forever

356

: 00:17:14

that kind of so so with that we'll

need you to just sort of Take a deep

357

: 00:17:20

breath Ponder some of that unthinkable

stuff, maybe, and we'll be right back.

358

: 00:18:01

All right, guys.

359

: 00:18:03

Here we come back.

360

: 00:18:04

And let's transition a little bit now.

361

: 00:18:05

You know, we were talking, you know,

specifically more about a country, maybe

362

: 00:18:11

the United States for us specifically,

or your country, wherever you're

363

: 00:18:15

listening to us, was going through your

grid as we were talking about similar

364

: 00:18:21

types of things, but I think what we

want to start to do now, maybe for the

365

: 00:18:25

last half of this episode, is to start

to frame a little bit of a new story.

366

: 00:18:30

Let's start to tell a little bit of

a different story when it comes to a

367

: 00:18:37

country and enlisting God into that.

368

: 00:18:40

And I'm just, I'm going to take

the word country right out now.

369

: 00:18:43

And I'm just going to talk, let's just

talk about your, you know, your realm.

370

: 00:18:49

Whatever that might look like, your

city, your family, your county,

371

: 00:18:54

your, you know, let's bring it home.

372

: 00:18:56

Let's bring it closed in now.

373

: 00:18:59

We think of a word like country, and

it's big, you know, America, whatever.

374

: 00:19:04

No, now let's kind of bring it down,

and let's talk about how God, the

375

: 00:19:10

deity, the divine, weaves, or can

weave, Itself, him, itself, herself,

376

: 00:19:18

Rev: in.

377

: 00:19:19

Itself.

378

: 00:19:20

Yeah.

379

: 00:19:20

Oh.

380

: 00:19:20

Oh.

381

: 00:19:21

Yeah.

382

: 00:19:22

Yeah.

383

: 00:19:22

Okay.

384

: 00:19:24

Mac: However you want to do it.

385

: 00:19:25

You know, into everyday life.

386

: 00:19:29

As we navigate the politics.

387

: 00:19:31

As we navigate the civic duties.

388

: 00:19:34

And, and let's just start with

maybe a statement that says, you

389

: 00:19:36

know, God doesn't take sides.

390

: 00:19:41

It doesn't take sides.

391

: 00:19:43

You don't get to throw the god card

whether it's your football team

392

: 00:19:45

or Your political candidate, your

393

: 00:19:48

Rev: country, or whatever.

394

: 00:19:49

You're telling me that all my

prayers for the Super Bowl this

395

: 00:19:52

weekend are not going to be answered?

396

: 00:19:54

Oh.

397

: 00:19:56

Mac: Let's see here now.

398

: 00:19:57

No.

399

: 00:19:57

Rev: Oh, darn.

400

: 00:20:00

Sorry.

401

: 00:20:01

God is rooting for both teams.

402

: 00:20:03

Yeah, everybody wins in God's kingdom.

403

: 00:20:07

But it points out the ridiculous

of what you're talking about.

404

: 00:20:10

They think, oh, my team

won, God was on my side.

405

: 00:20:13

God was victorious through our team.

406

: 00:20:16

That is the most ridiculous thought,

but we do the same thing with countries.

407

: 00:20:19

We won the war, God must

have been on our side.

408

: 00:20:22

And then we get very arrogant.

409

: 00:20:23

The more wars we win, the more

connected to God we think we are.

410

: 00:20:28

And then we think we can push everybody

else around because God's on our side.

411

: 00:20:35

It happens in relationship with my wife.

412

: 00:20:40

Coach Stu: Pushing everybody around

in the last thing you said, Red,

413

: 00:20:43

pushing everybody around in the name

of God, that doesn't feel right to

414

: 00:20:47

me, but I certainly feel good about

God being a part of what I'm doing.

415

: 00:20:52

Absolutely.

416

: 00:20:53

And if I have a success or especially

when I don't have successes, but.

417

: 00:20:57

When I have success and I may,

you know, I mean, look at all the

418

: 00:21:00

athletes that they have some success

and they're pointing up to their God

419

: 00:21:04

and, you know, Hey, I'm honoring you.

420

: 00:21:06

That's the way they, so to me,

that's a good positive thing.

421

: 00:21:10

It's where you take it.

422

: 00:21:12

That step that says, okay, well,

you're kind of like forcing it

423

: 00:21:17

down other people's throats.

424

: 00:21:19

So

425

: 00:21:19

Rev: what are the qualities?

426

: 00:21:20

What are the qualities of

God that you guys believe in?

427

: 00:21:23

How do you know God?

428

: 00:21:24

By what qualities?

429

: 00:21:26

Yeah.

430

: 00:21:26

Love.

431

: 00:21:27

Love.

432

: 00:21:27

I mean, for sure.

433

: 00:21:28

I mean, you have to say that.

434

: 00:21:29

And love doesn't subjugate.

435

: 00:21:31

Love doesn't push around.

436

: 00:21:32

But love honors.

437

: 00:21:33

Love worships.

438

: 00:21:34

Let's bring that word in.

439

: 00:21:35

Love brings value to the game.

440

: 00:21:38

I love it when there's a, you know,

I love MMA, a minister who loves MMA.

441

: 00:21:42

At the end of the match, these guys have

been going at it and they hug each other

442

: 00:21:45

and they love each other and said, boy,

that was a valiant effort on both sides.

443

: 00:21:49

Way to go guy.

444

: 00:21:50

When we go home, friends.

445

: 00:21:51

Coach Stu: Yeah, we do that

same thing in wrestling.

446

: 00:21:53

You know, I coach

wrestling, same exact thing.

447

: 00:21:55

So you're right.

448

: 00:21:56

You're right on love.

449

: 00:21:58

So, so check this out.

450

: 00:21:59

Here's my phrase of the week.

451

: 00:22:00

Love

452

: 00:22:01

Rev: loves everybody.

453

: 00:22:05

That's got to be a new meme.

454

: 00:22:08

So we know God is present when

we're able to extend the love that

455

: 00:22:13

we have to everybody and is God

absent when we're unable to do that?

456

: 00:22:18

When we push away and we push to push

around and we subjugate and we divide.

457

: 00:22:24

I don't believe so.

458

: 00:22:25

I believe God's always there.

459

: 00:22:26

Always there.

460

: 00:22:27

That's the omnipresence we talked about.

461

: 00:22:29

So is it that we're just blind?

462

: 00:22:31

We're not, we're not

partnering with that essence.

463

: 00:22:34

So a few

464

: 00:22:34

Coach Stu: things could happen.

465

: 00:22:35

You might be blind to it.

466

: 00:22:37

You might have blinders on.

467

: 00:22:38

You might not be paying attention.

468

: 00:22:39

You might see it and stiff arm it.

469

: 00:22:41

I've done that plenty.

470

: 00:22:43

You know, I see it and boom,

nope, I'm not ready for that.

471

: 00:22:45

Or I don't want to hear that right now.

472

: 00:22:47

I mean, there's

473

: 00:22:47

Rev: a lot of sure.

474

: 00:22:49

That said evolution, I'm not ready to grow

into that, that immense amount of love

475

: 00:22:53

yet, but I'm going to move that direction.

476

: 00:22:55

So here's the cool

477

: 00:22:56

Coach Stu: thing.

478

: 00:22:56

And all of that is okay to me.

479

: 00:22:57

But the cool thing is, is God is there.

480

: 00:23:01

Whether you believe it

or not is irrelevant.

481

: 00:23:04

God

482

: 00:23:05

Rev: is there.

483

: 00:23:06

Well, isn't there, there's a scripture.

484

: 00:23:07

Go back to the older Testament.

485

: 00:23:09

Surely God was here and I did not know it.

486

: 00:23:11

Waking up from a sleep of

Jacob, I believe it was.

487

: 00:23:14

Who said, Oh my God, God was here

the whole time and I was blind.

488

: 00:23:18

I was

489

: 00:23:18

Mac: asleep.

490

: 00:23:20

Well, then to me, that's the good news.

491

: 00:23:22

All religions, in my opinion,

have the gospel, which is just

492

: 00:23:27

the good news of what we, exactly

what we're just talking about.

493

: 00:23:30

Now we're going to Right.

494

: 00:23:33

Be careful.

495

: 00:23:34

But, but I think what we're, you know,

where I'd like to go with this thing

496

: 00:23:38

is that If it got in dwells and God's

everywhere and God's all these things

497

: 00:23:44

we were just talking about That we

are endowed with we are empowered by a

498

: 00:23:52

force a Spirit there's lots of different

connotations that you can put on this

499

: 00:23:58

and the reason that we are empowered and

gifted and in all these things so that

500

: 00:24:04

we Can it be the distribution center for

God's love, not the collection center?

501

: 00:24:09

Yeah.

502

: 00:24:10

Rev: The portal, the channel,

the avenue through which God

503

: 00:24:13

is made manifest on earth.

504

: 00:24:15

I would call that the Christ.

505

: 00:24:17

Now I'm not going to go there.

506

: 00:24:18

We'll go another podcast, but is

that capability and that spirit

507

: 00:24:22

and that goodness and that love

existing already and every part of

508

: 00:24:27

our experience and in us as well.

509

: 00:24:33

Mac: So it allows us to do, here's a

word we're going to introduce now into

510

: 00:24:38

the equation, great things, greatness.

511

: 00:24:40

And think about that.

512

: 00:24:43

They know.

513

: 00:24:44

We have that, you know, kind

of thing politically right now

514

: 00:24:47

about making America great again.

515

: 00:24:50

Forget the political connotations of it.

516

: 00:24:52

Forget I want you to just, just,

because when I said the word great,

517

: 00:24:55

I didn't want everybody going

down the rabbit hole, alright?

518

: 00:24:59

That there is a way for us, as

Americans, or whoever you're listening

519

: 00:25:06

to us from, is to do great things.

520

: 00:25:10

We can.

521

: 00:25:11

We can do it and we want to

encourage, we think it can be

522

: 00:25:15

done best through the power that

we're endowed with by the creator.

523

: 00:25:21

Most of the time we kind of screw

it up pretty good when we're trying

524

: 00:25:25

to do it under our own power, right?

525

: 00:25:28

But understand love, we started

with that word already, and love

526

: 00:25:33

drives inclusion, not exclusion.

527

: 00:25:38

When there's love that's permeating

and dominating the conversation,

528

: 00:25:43

if you will, or the story, then

we're talking about inclusionism.

529

: 00:25:47

Jesus, you know, he wasn't a nationalist.

530

: 00:25:50

He wasn't a Jewish nationalist.

531

: 00:25:52

He was an inclusionist.

532

: 00:25:54

That's where he grounded

his whole perspective.

533

: 00:25:59

And so, first and foremost, I think that

if we are going to be citizens and we are

534

: 00:26:05

going to have God part of our country.

535

: 00:26:07

Let's look to inclusion and oneness.

536

: 00:26:11

And boy, oh boy, in love,

and that changes the

537

: 00:26:13

Rev: whole way.

538

: 00:26:13

These are the attributes

of God I'm talking about.

539

: 00:26:16

It's kindness, compassion, love,

generosity, goodness, charity,

540

: 00:26:20

all these wonderful things.

541

: 00:26:22

And is it about making America great

again, or is it seeing America great?

542

: 00:26:27

Have we just lost sight of the God

that's right smack dab in the middle

543

: 00:26:30

of the country, in Washington, D.

544

: 00:26:32

C., in our homes, in, in every state?

545

: 00:26:36

Have we just lost sight, and our job is

simply to see it right, and to remember

546

: 00:26:40

the truth that we have forgotten.

547

: 00:26:43

So are we as close to heaven on

earth, heaven in the United States,

548

: 00:26:46

as the next thought, as the next

action of love demonstrated?

549

: 00:26:50

Mac: Began to now, it's not a

then over there in the future.

550

: 00:26:57

It's an now we can certainly

do greater things right now.

551

: 00:27:03

Rev: That means see America kinder, see

America more compassionate and generous.

552

: 00:27:08

You don't, don't make it greater,

greater than your country or

553

: 00:27:11

greater than anybody else.

554

: 00:27:12

'cause that's a.

555

: 00:27:12

Greater than in, less than

that's gonna cause suffering.

556

: 00:27:15

It's just a matter of realizing

at a deep internal spiritual

557

: 00:27:18

level that America is great.

558

: 00:27:21

America is amazing already.

559

: 00:27:23

We just have to stop, pause, breathe,

and go, oh, I forgot for a minute.

560

: 00:27:27

Mac: Well, let's bring some different

if you out there listeners have,

561

: 00:27:34

you've never seen the series called The

Newsroom may not even be on your radar.

562

: 00:27:40

It, it, it starts Jeff Daniels.

563

: 00:27:43

And in the pilot, I mean like

the very first thing that happens

564

: 00:27:48

in this series, he is an anchor.

565

: 00:27:50

He's a news anchor, that's why

they call it a news anchor.

566

: 00:27:53

And he is on stage on a panel at a

college, and a young woman, a student,

567

: 00:28:01

steps up to the mic as they're doing

kind of a question and answer, and

568

: 00:28:05

asks the panel the question, you

know, why do you think America is

569

: 00:28:09

the greatest country in the world?

570

: 00:28:11

That was the question

that she asked the panel.

571

: 00:28:16

And you want to talk about Unthinkable.

572

: 00:28:18

He unleashed the unthinkable when

he responded to her question,

573

: 00:28:23

which was so different than

the other people in the panel.

574

: 00:28:26

And we want to play just

a short clip from that.

575

: 00:28:28

We'll put a link to the whole thing.

576

: 00:28:30

And believe me, I would encourage

you to go and watch the series

577

: 00:28:34

because Aaron Sorkin wrote it.

578

: 00:28:35

He's incredible.

579

: 00:28:37

And it's a cerebral thing and you

will absolutely love it, but let's

580

: 00:28:41

play this clip and then let's pick

up on it as we're, we're kind of

581

: 00:28:46

fleshing out and unpacking this

idea of greater or greatness.

582

: 00:31:28

Rev: He said,

583

: 00:31:28

Coach Stu: we didn't identify

ourselves by who we voted.

584

: 00:31:32

And then the next line I think is related.

585

: 00:31:37

Rev: And we didn't scare so easy.

586

: 00:31:39

I think

587

: 00:31:40

Coach Stu: people scared into

identifying a certain way.

588

: 00:31:44

Because, instead of two things

that are important to them, you

589

: 00:31:53

Rev: know,

590

: 00:31:55

Coach Stu: things of, to me, it'd be

things of God, you know, identifying, and

591

: 00:32:11

that, that has just a whole different

meaning to me, and that, but, but it's,

592

: 00:32:16

there, there's such a divide going on

right now, everyone's, if, if I'm on this

593

: 00:32:22

side, and you're on the other side, and

you say something that I would agree with,

594

: 00:32:27

if I had said it, I'd have to disagree

with it, because you're on the other

595

: 00:32:30

Rev: side, that's where we're at right

596

: 00:32:32

Coach Stu: now, You know, and that's

identifying with who you voted for.

597

: 00:32:36

Like, that's what that means

to me when he said that.

598

: 00:32:39

And it's, I want to see people

do that different, you know?

599

: 00:32:45

There's a way to be

connected with one another.

600

: 00:32:48

Where you can have a

different thought than I do.

601

: 00:32:52

And we can still be buddies,

602

: 00:32:55

Rev: you know, and we,

we just did it for sure.

603

: 00:32:59

And it was a beautiful thing.

604

: 00:33:03

And here's the thing we

605

: 00:33:05

Coach Stu: grow.

606

: 00:33:05

When that happens, we become better

people, you know, we, we live in that

607

: 00:33:12

when you can live in that place of feeling

608

: 00:33:13

Rev: uncomfortable because you

609

: 00:33:16

Coach Stu: believe a certain way, but

you're thinking, how am I going to,

610

: 00:33:19

how am I going to have a conversation?

611

: 00:33:21

With this person and find a way to

connect with them when I know that

612

: 00:33:26

they think entirely different than me,

okay, instead of looking at you think

613

: 00:33:30

entirely different than I do, you know,

let's say like you're talking about

614

: 00:33:34

Democrats talking to Republican in

the United States of America, right?

615

: 00:33:37

And they think entirely different, right?

616

: 00:33:40

Well, guess what?

617

: 00:33:41

Guess what?

618

: 00:33:41

They both have in common.

619

: 00:33:43

They both believe that what

their way is To do america is

620

: 00:33:50

the best way for our country.

621

: 00:33:52

They both believe that It could be

entirely opposite Ideas, but they

622

: 00:33:58

both believe they have the best idea

for it So why can't we acknowledge

623

: 00:34:03

that right and come together and say

hey, how do we how do we find a way?

624

: 00:34:07

to get to the common goal You know,

it's kind of like when we talked

625

: 00:34:13

about the phoenix affirmations

and having different ways to climb

626

: 00:34:16

that mountain to get to the same

627

: 00:34:18

Rev: You know, I look at

the country as a circle.

628

: 00:34:22

I look at religion as a

circle, God as a circle.

629

: 00:34:25

Circles have no sides, but we're so

attached to the human ego to have a side.

630

: 00:34:31

The bridge is going to be to see

that there's a great belonging here.

631

: 00:34:35

Your party, my party, the independents,

the Christians, the Jews, the

632

: 00:34:39

atheists, it's, it's all a circle.

633

: 00:34:42

And when our consciousness is formed

on that, there is a possibility of

634

: 00:34:46

a bridge, of reaching each other,

and reaching each other's heart.

635

: 00:34:49

When we put up sides, walls go up,

fences go up, and there's, there's

636

: 00:34:54

no way to connect at each other.

637

: 00:34:55

It's two completely

different, Polar opposites.

638

: 00:34:58

So I'm about drawing circles.

639

: 00:35:00

The country, the United States of

America, not the divided states

640

: 00:35:04

of America, was intended as a

circle in its original intention.

641

: 00:35:09

And as the clip said, we used to be.

642

: 00:35:12

I don't like the word greatest

because that didn't have to

643

: 00:35:14

be better than somebody else.

644

: 00:35:15

We were great, and I think we've

lost sight of the circle that is God.

645

: 00:35:18

The circle of the intention of the

founding fathers, and I want to

646

: 00:35:22

give respect to the mothers as well.

647

: 00:35:24

He mentioned men.

648

: 00:35:25

There were a lot of women that were there.

649

: 00:35:27

I want to bring him into my circle.

650

: 00:35:29

It's, it's the consciousness

of a circle and belonging.

651

: 00:35:32

That's the only way we're going

to get back to the greatness

652

: 00:35:35

that he was talking about.

653

: 00:35:47

Mac: We get it.

654

: 00:35:49

And so this may seem like the elephant,

don't make an ass of yourself.

655

: 00:36:06

The thing is, you gotta start somewhere.

656

: 00:36:09

You gotta start whittling away at

your, at the way you see things.

657

: 00:36:14

And maybe if what we can do here, what

you're hearing here from us, can help

658

: 00:36:19

you just tweak, just a little bit.

659

: 00:36:22

You'll be amazed at once you

start down that trajectory.

660

: 00:36:25

But, We have to aspire to the higher.

661

: 00:36:29

I mean, we really do.

662

: 00:36:30

We need to say, Oh, that can't happen.

663

: 00:36:33

Oh, that's just, it's too, no, there's

just no way that's gonna happen.

664

: 00:36:37

Okay?

665

: 00:36:38

And it will

666

: 00:36:39

Rev: never happen as long as you

have to pull your stones out of

667

: 00:36:42

your pack first, then I'll do it.

668

: 00:36:44

You have to whittle

first, then I'll do it.

669

: 00:36:47

And then nobody moves.

670

: 00:36:48

You have to be the first one to take

the step back and to say, Hey, I'm open.

671

: 00:36:52

Hey, I'm, I'm listening.

672

: 00:36:54

Hey, let me take this stone

out cause maybe I can think

673

: 00:36:57

a little bit differently.

674

: 00:36:58

And that takes vulnerability.

675

: 00:36:59

It takes guts.

676

: 00:37:00

It takes courage, but I don't need you

to be the first one to take the step.

677

: 00:37:04

I need to be the one that steps

in immediately and does it.

678

: 00:37:11

Here it comes.

679

: 00:37:13

What

680

: 00:37:13

Coach Stu: you're seeing

and thinking is exactly what

681

: 00:37:16

you're going to think and see.

682

: 00:37:18

Think about it, right?

683

: 00:37:20

If you're looking, if I'm looking

for something negative about you,

684

: 00:37:26

I'm eventually going to find it

685

: 00:37:27

Rev: because that's what I'm looking for.

686

: 00:37:28

Angry people will always

find angry people.

687

: 00:37:31

Defensive people will always

find a reason to be defensive.

688

: 00:37:35

Compassionate people will find that

circle and some way to be compassionate.

689

: 00:37:40

Coach Stu: Just looking

for a way to connect.

690

: 00:37:42

You don't even have to say like,

like a compassionate person.

691

: 00:37:46

Maybe I'm not that person, right?

692

: 00:37:47

But if I'm looking for that in you,

because maybe I want to come from

693

: 00:37:50

a point of learning, maybe I can

694

: 00:37:53

Rev: change.

695

: 00:37:54

Go figure.

696

: 00:37:55

Can

697

: 00:37:56

Coach Stu: you change?

698

: 00:37:58

Right?

699

: 00:37:58

If I'm looking for that, that's exactly

what I'm going to end up finding.

700

: 00:38:02

That's, that's the, to me, this is

the biggest issue we have right now.

701

: 00:38:08

What everyone's looking for,

they're seeing and they're thinking.

702

: 00:38:11

Mac: That's why we want to take you

and let you see differently and take

703

: 00:38:16

you to the inside edge where you can

get exposed to things just like we do.

704

: 00:38:21

I believe it is.

705

: 00:38:22

We are pointing fingers here.

706

: 00:38:23

Rev: I'm pointing them this way.

707

: 00:38:25

I'm sort of, yeah, I'm pointing at the

708

: 00:38:26

Mac: camera right now, but

that's not what I really mean.

709

: 00:38:28

Take, take to heart some of

the things that Will McEvoy

710

: 00:38:34

said that we, pretty simple.

711

: 00:38:38

We don't have time.

712

: 00:38:39

Get all, you know, esoteric about

it and philosophical about it and

713

: 00:38:44

religious about it or anything.

714

: 00:38:46

Just care about each other.

715

: 00:38:48

Act on it.

716

: 00:38:52

Rev: God as a moral compass for

the nation, God as a direction

717

: 00:38:56

of that caring, not as a weapon.

718

: 00:39:00

And I think what happens in God

and country in the marriage, God

719

: 00:39:03

becomes a weapon and not the code

of ethics, of responsibility, of

720

: 00:39:08

Mac: morals.

721

: 00:39:26

Rev: Oh, I hope we get some the other

way to some are escorting right?

722

: 00:39:28

Yep.

723

: 00:39:29

Some are thinking about turning us off.

724

: 00:39:32

No,

725

: 00:39:32

Mac: stay.

726

: 00:39:35

We care.

727

: 00:39:42

Rev: The kingdom of heaven is within.

728

: 00:39:45

We heard it from the master teacher.

729

: 00:39:47

We got to look within to remember God

and we got to quit looking outside

730

: 00:39:51

for you to, to be more compassionate.

731

: 00:39:53

I've just got to be the change

I want to see on the planet.

732

: 00:39:56

Wakes

733

: 00:40:01

Mac: us up, yeah, keep in mind this

was long before the series was into it.

734

: 00:40:07

Wow, yes.

735

: 00:40:08

So, you know, this, this isn't just

like he just, there was anything

736

: 00:40:12

going on that spurred this or

that led Aaron Sorkin to write it.

737

: 00:40:17

This is the human condition.

738

: 00:40:20

And, and certainly within America,

this has been around, this idea,

739

: 00:40:24

these thoughts, these issues,

these blessings have a long time.

740

: 00:40:28

It's not just something recent.

741

: 00:40:31

So, you know, we, we, we're really

fleshing out a lot of little nuggets here.

742

: 00:40:36

It's really been great, you know, and I

think at the core, I think I can come,

743

: 00:40:41

I'm going to try guys, you know, see

if I can do this where I can circle

744

: 00:40:46

the wagon and sort of just say, look,

each of us needs to be more sensitive

745

: 00:40:54

to how we create, we, individually, how

we create division and seek to heal.

746

: 00:41:02

See, just be honest with yourself.

747

: 00:41:04

I'm not pointing fingers at anybody.

748

: 00:41:07

It's not about out there.

749

: 00:41:09

It's about us.

750

: 00:41:11

What do we do to create division?

751

: 00:41:15

And what can we do

individually to help heal that?

752

: 00:41:21

And to make us and our country a more

united state and a more united people.

753

: 00:41:28

And you out there, if you're

listening to a different country,

754

: 00:41:30

you can apply it wherever.

755

: 00:41:32

Your culture and your country

you know, is appropriate.

756

: 00:41:36

But at the end of the day, it's a concept

for me of what I call root and fruit.

757

: 00:41:42

That if you get the root right, if

you get your heart right, if you

758

: 00:41:46

get your perspective right, then

other things then will produce.

759

: 00:41:53

They will, they'll change if you

go seeking those foundational

760

: 00:41:58

core things about yourself.

761

: 00:42:01

Then you will be amazed at how the

world around you will begin to change.

762

: 00:42:06

Not because you're trying to change

it, but you've changed yourself

763

: 00:42:09

and in the course of events.

764

: 00:42:13

Rev: It's Wayne Dyer.

765

: 00:42:14

Wayne Dyer said it pretty clearly.

766

: 00:42:16

Change the way you look at things

and the things you look at change.

767

: 00:42:19

Change the consciousness first.

768

: 00:42:21

Change the heart.

769

: 00:42:22

Change the spirit first.

770

: 00:42:24

And you got to be patient because

there's not going to be an

771

: 00:42:26

immediate shift out in the world.

772

: 00:42:28

But can you stay the course, keep, hold

your feet to the fire, and be that change?

773

: 00:42:32

I, absolutely, I believe

it with my whole heart.

774

: 00:42:34

So I'm taking responsibility for

bringing worship, the value, to

775

: 00:42:39

the, the God of Stu's understanding.

776

: 00:42:42

Of, of, of the, of the coach, and of Mac,

and of me, and of everybody on the planet.

777

: 00:42:47

Let me seek to understand

before you understand me.

778

: 00:42:50

And maybe, maybe tomorrow the

world will be a little bit

779

: 00:42:53

better, little brighter place.

780

: 00:42:58

Coach Stu: Yeah, I was

thinking, what if we,

781

: 00:43:08

even though it doesn't matter,

if it matters to you, even if it

782

: 00:43:12

doesn't matter to me, if it matters

to you, I don't have to agree with

783

: 00:43:15

it, but it should matter to me.

784

: 00:43:17

Like, what if we all did that?

785

: 00:43:19

Like, what

786

: 00:43:19

Rev: would

787

: 00:43:20

Coach Stu: our interactions be like?

788

: 00:43:21

What would it

789

: 00:43:23

Rev: be like?

790

: 00:43:24

The omnipotent, not at all.

791

: 00:43:26

Coach Stu: I'm just looking

for a way to connect.

792

: 00:43:28

I keep using that word because

that's what it is to me.

793

: 00:43:30

And I think we've all

forgotten why we're here.

794

: 00:43:33

We're, people are walking around.

795

: 00:43:35

With memory laps, they have forgotten,

796

: 00:43:38

Rev: they are asleep,

797

: 00:43:39

Coach Stu: sleepwalking, they have

forgotten why they're here on earth.

798

: 00:43:44

There's so many

799

: 00:43:45

Rev: distractions.

800

: 00:43:47

There's a song we like to sing.

801

: 00:43:48

Why have we come to earth to

love, to serve and to remember?

802

: 00:43:53

And I think there's a great amnesia

going on on the planet and in the nation.

803

: 00:43:56

Maybe we're waking each other up as

we're waking up somebody who happens

804

: 00:43:59

to be listening just a little bit.

805

: 00:44:06

Mac: Thanks so much for

listening this week.

806

: 00:44:08

I hope some notes.

807

: 00:44:11

We'll have some links in the show

notes Cafe, we'd love to start to hear

808

: 00:44:19

from you and get some interaction and

809

: 00:44:24

see you soon