In the latest episode of Tabula Rasa, B!tches!, Allie and Nick discuss “The Pack.” On a school field trip to the zoo, Xander and a pack of four other students are possessed by the spirits of hyenas. Xander and his pack begin acting cruelly to Willow and other students. Although Giles initially brushes off Buffy’s concerns about Xander, he changes his mind when the school’s new mascot and Principal Flutie are eaten. Buffy, Willow, and Giles lure the pack back to the hyena enclosure at the zoo, and after a run-in with the hyena’s keeper, Buffy restores Xander and the others back to normal.

CW: This episode contains allusions to and discussions about sexual assault.

Credits

• Hosted by Allie Press & Nick Mercer
• Music by InflatonCult
• Artwork by Charlotte Fleming Design
• Consultation by Evo Terra

Connect with us on social media!

• Email: tabularasabpod@gmail.com
• Twitter, Instagram, Facebook: @tabularasabpod

Connect with Allie on social media:

• Twitter, Instagram: @Daughterpick
• Tiktok: @futureblackcat
• buymeacoffee.com/AlliePress

[Intro Music]

Welcome to Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

[Intro Music begins fading out]

Hello, hello!

Hello.

My name is Allie.

And I'm Nick.

And welcome to season one, episode six of Tabula Rasa, B!tches.

We're so glad you are here.

In Tabula Rasa, B!tches, you'll listen as two decades-long

friends jump back into the world of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and relive

the show that brought them close together and taught them so many of

the values they still cherish today.

As always, we are going to give our spoiler wording.

We are going to be discussing this episode, spoilers and all, so if you

haven't watched and you don't want to hear any spoilers, go ahead and go

watch this great episode and come back.

We will be waiting for you!

Yeah!

Each episode of Tabula Rasa, B!tches, we'll dive into an episode of Buffy

the Vampire Slayer and discuss the lessons that can be learned from our

favorite Sunnydale warriors and the supernatural creatures they use their

talents and friendship to overcome.

If you are wondering about our name, Tabula Rasa, B!tches, well, then you must

not have listened to our first episode.

So what are you doing?

Go back and listen to that.

And then come and join us for season one, episode six, "The Pack."

And what an episode it is, Allie.

I...

can jump into the episode summary.

I'm gonna give a little, uh, taste though.

This episode is not my favorite, Allie.

This episode is not my favorite.

I'm so excited to talk with you about it because

I actually love this episode.

And maybe hearing your thoughts will help me relate to

this in a different way, but I look forward to our robust discussion.

Yeah, me too.

So get us rolling with that summary.

All right.

So, Buffy and the gang are on a school trip to the zoo when Xander sneaks into

the new hyena exhibit to help a boy that is being picked on by four bullies.

Inside the exhibit, Xander and the four are infected by the spirit of

the hyena and begin to act strangely.

Buffy suspects something is wrong when Xander starts being mean to

Willow in school the next day, but Giles shrugs it off as teenage angst.

Giles is forced to change his mind, however, when the school

mascot, a piglet, is eaten.

Principal Flutie is also eaten soon after.

Buffy, Giles, and Willow lure Xander and his pack of four possessed students back

to the hyena cage and, after a run-in with the hyena keeper, manage to restore

Xander and the others back to normal.

And before we jump into our notes, we're gonna give a shout-out to

the Complete Buffy Episode Guide from which I adopted this summary.

What a crew of brilliant people.

Yes.

Yep, no shade ever in stealing as long as you give credit.

Absolutely.

So Allie, get us started with your notes.

Yeah, so my first reaction to the episode title was, oh, yes!

And then I was like, wait, whoops.

Thought that was a different episode.

And then I was like, wait, but also hell yes!

Uh, cuz I, I think this- it's very different and interesting

and I like the way that it like...

definitely, definitely strong metaphor happening in this episode for sure.

Um, I dunno.

I just, I always thought it was kind of fun.

Well, I look forward to hearing more about the metaphors you

found because I find this episode boring and lacking character development.

But what do I know?

Huh!

Interesting.

I will say, though, did not love this episode, but I do love zoos.

I love zoos a lot, so when this episode starts off at a zoo, [Allie

laughs] that's good stuff for me.

I love zoos.

Zoos are fantastic.

I love zoos.

Um, and I, I love that zoos are improving their

enclosures and stuff like that.

I'm not saying that zoos are without fault, cuz there're definitely

some, uh, some icky ones out there.

But, yeah, I enjoy them.

There are.

We know that Sunnydale zoo is crushing it above all them.

I have a question for you, but it sounds like you have a note.

It did look like it had, um, some nice enclosures.

That hyena area was pretty dope.

Um, I was just gonna say, I like, um, Xander and Willow come in talking

about, they just saw zebras having sex and, and Willow says, "It was

like the Heimlich with stripes."

[Laughing] Willow, you are a doll.

I would die for you.

Um, my question for you is, our Scoobies are on a school

field trip here at the zoo.

What was the coolest field trip you ever went on?

Hmm, coolest.

I think, I think it would have to be, uh, in high school with marching band

when we went to - well, I guess I was part of wind ensemble and marching band.

Well, we went to Disney and we got to march right down...

Well, for those of you who saw Disney when the big blue magic hat was there?

We walked right down that street towards the big hat.

Neato!

It was just really cool.

And also, as part of the wind ensemble, um, our holding area before we went on to

the stage to perform was their prop house.

So I got to see like the hyenas from Lion King and like the baby from Dinosaurs.

I just thought that was really cool.

Um, definitely took pictures in there even though we weren't supposed to.

Uh, so that was just like a really great trip and-

Disney's gonna hear, Allie.

Disney's gonna hear that you just confessed that and they're gonna find you.

I feel like the statute of limitations has, uh, passed.

I...

you're probably right.

I think so.

I think so.

I think they have better things to do with their time, but I don't know.

I don't, I don't know your life, Disney.

[Nick laughing].

Yeah, and I just, the rest we basically, like the first day was performances

and the rest of the time was all park.

Love

that.

And the first day, it was pouring down rain.

We were supposed to go to the water park, but ended up at Epcot instead.

And it was that kind of pouring rain where like this isn't stopping, so

I'm just gonna commit to being wet.

Oh yeah.

So...

Oh yeah.

That was just like us playing in the rain.

I was with all the guys, cuz Caitlin couldn't make it to the trip.

And we deemed ourselves The Excitement Squad and we rode every little ride that

Epcot had to offer, but we would treat it like it was a big rollercoaster.

So it would be like the tiniest bump and we'd like WOOOOOOOO!

[Nick laughing] It was just the, it was the best day.

Sometimes hanging out with guys is just, is so much fun.

So shout out to my loves, Matt, David, Todd, Tim, uh, Nick Shearin.

Love you all.

Hope you're all doing swell.

What a crew to go to a theme park with.

I'm happy for you.

Thanks.

I wanna do it again sometime.

I love amusement parks, but with COVID I've been like...

that is one of the least places I think is hygienic at this point.

Yeah, everybody's screaming in each other's faces.

Probably not ideal for a communicable airborne disease.

Right.

True.

True, true.

Um, what about you?

What's the coolest trip you've ever been on?

Uh, school trip you've been on.

Uh, New York for sure.

Yeah, we, uh, as part of musical theater, we - We had a musical theater class.

That's strange for high school.

Sometimes I forget about that, Allie.

We had that option at our high school.

Um, yeah, we went to New York.

We got to take some classes with Broadway actors.

We got to see a bunch of Broadway shows, walk around New York.

It was fun.

It was a good time.

That was pretty cool.

Yeah.

It was a good time.

For sure.

Yeah.

Okay, thanks for indulging me.

Absolutely!

The first note I have is that, so the episode starts off, the

crew of four who later become possessed or whatever by the hyena spirit,

start off giving Buffy some shit.

And I wrote down that, for being a group of bitches, they don't

seem super cool themselves.

I had that thought, too.

It kind of felt like, well, everybody's above somebody else?

I guess?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it definitely felt like, uhhhh, who are these people?

Cuz they're not Cordelia's crew.

But I guess they're cooler than Buffy, but probably less cool than Cordelia's crew.

I guess they're-

Higher up on the food chain...

yeah

...but not super high up themselves, yeah.

I guess she just like really marked herself early

being with Xander and Willow?

Cause like she hasn't been at school that long.

Right.

And she's like already deemed a loser?

I guess kids make up their minds really quickly.

I don't know.

Who knows.

Very, yeah.

Um, their insults are also not amazing.

[Allie laughing] They are, they are, uh, they're looking at the kid in front

of the monkey exhibit or whatever.

And the quote I wrote down is, is one of them, the bully says

to the kid they're making fun of, "Does somebody have a camera?

Wha-push!"

And they say that, they say the emote I typed out is "wha-push."

And I wrote "LOL, what?"

like, what is that?

I think

- Nick Mercer: That's not a good insult.

I think they, I think the line that precedes

that, though, isn't it something like, "Aww, it's a family reunion.

Does somebody have a camera?"

Yeah.

Which is also not a good insult.

That's not, it's.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I guess comparing you to a monkey, which it's like...

accurate.

And monkeys are cool.

Yeah.

That's...

what are you why?

I dunno.

You know...

But you, but you know what, like

- Nick Mercer: That's fine.

I also, I'm the person who doesn't cave to

peer pressure a lot though?

Like when people would say, "Do it!

You won't!

No balls!"

I was like, yeah, you're right.

I won't do it.

Good job.

So I guess it's like, we won't get that because- I don't know.

You'd have to do something more, more deep to insult one of us.

Yeah.

Yeah, we're not insulted by it.

We're like, yeah, the monkey is, the monkey is cool.

We are related to the monkey.

Right.

It is kind of a family reunion.

Yeah.

What is your point?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I see what you're saying.

But yeah, they are definitely...

they're neaderthals.

[Nick laughs] And yeah, my first note is "Awww, Buff."

Cause they're making fun of Buffy.

Um, real talk, packmentality is such a thing.

Mmm it is.

Because it's - I wanna say there's even more than the four because

there's at least three guys and two girls.

So I think it's actually a pack of five.

Um, but one of the girls isn't always there.

There's that blonde chick.

Ooohhh

I wanna say I've seen - yes!

Yes!

Cuz there's the blonde, there's the girl with the short blonde

hair and then there's the girl with the really short brown hair.

So yeah, actually I didn't realize there were three guys.

There's only, I thought there were only two.

I thought, I thought it was a two and two situation.

Yeah.

I have a picture right here.

Yeah.

There's a two.

Ehhh ehhh!

Watch this space, friends.

Watch this space.

We'll see.

[Chuckling]

Allie is usually right about these kinds of things.

So I'm gonna, I'm, Imma trust her.

Imma trust her.

But it is, it does vary throughout the episode because they do

say like later with the pig incident and with like Principal Flutie,

they say four students were seen going into the principal's office.

Mm-hmm.

So it's not the whole time.

Well, and your point that, uh, the pack

mentality, that really is true.

So strong, so strong because it really does feel like life and

death in, with those social situations.

And it really does feel like, well, it's better to be in and miserable

than out and completely alone.

So I, yeah, I was lucky enough that I usually had a

pretty solid group of friends.

Um, I ditched most of the drama in middle school.

Middle school was a heinous time.

Was just...

people...

cuz everyone's just horrible.

And like I said, every, every day feels like the end of the world school.

Absolutely.

And I loved it at the time, but looking back, I was like whuuuuut?

Yep.

What?

There's just- Ugh.

Like I, I, I definitely appreciate anyone who chooses to be a middle school

teacher . Cause that's just horrid.

Service medallions to all of you.

Those are the true heroes and it is true, like,

you think it's okay because...

like there are things you will do with a group that you

just wouldn't do by yourself.

Well, and I remember I would, um, I remember this

even into high school, Allie.

Um, there was this crew of theater kids where it was like the cool theater kids.

Mm-hmm.

And there would be people who I'd be buds with,

they would just act different around this "cool" group of kids.

I would be like, I thought we were buds, but now you're being mean-

Yep.

-when they're around.

What?

Yeah, that's the packmentality, though, ain't it, Allie?!

It's just the, it's just the trying to fit in and

- Nick Mercer: Trying to be cool, yeah.

Yeah, I remember when I first started doing shows at Drama

Learning Center, I got invited to go, go to the mall with some of the cool kids.

[Unsarcastically gasps]

And I remember just like staying really quiet.

And just kind of going along with like whatever they were saying.

I didn't really have any problems with anybody, but I

definitely remember thinking like, well, thank god they like me.

Mmm mhm.

Because I would probably never know if they didn't, but they would

totally be trashing me behind my back.

And that's just...

it's the worst feeling.

Ugh.

Gross.

It is the worst feeling.

I'm so glad I'm not a teenager anymore.

Ugh!

Yikes.

Yes.

Oh my god.

Um, I have another question for you.

Mm-hmm.

So at the end of one of these scenes, Xander has, um, so

the pack, however many they are, um, brought the kid they were making fun

of into the hyena exhibit, Xander chases them, and then at the end, they

all like get possessed or whatever.

Mm-hmm.

And they start laughing.

Yeah.

Is it hard...

you're an actor.

Mm-hmm.

Is it hard to fake laugh?

Uuuuuuhhhhh...

I don't think-

They are cackling.

They're cackling.

They are cackling, but I, I don't think so.

Because especially with something like that, it kind of ends up

cycling into itself because you're like, wow, I'm being so ridiculous.

And it makes you laugh even more.

Um, also, I don't know.

It's just one of those things that you, you figure out how to do.

You kind of have this Rolodex in your head of These Are Funny Things,

or, you know, you think of...

Charlie the Unicorn or, or Salad Fingers or whatever.

And, uh, you just start, you find ways to, to make yourself laugh.

And also some of it is muscle memory?

Like if you force yourself to yawn, you can start feeling sleepy.

Or if you force yourself to smile, you start feeling happier.

So some of it is like, if I just go with that muscle memory of laughing,

it just kind of ends up there.

So it doesn't always have to start with the thought and

then go with the physicality.

Sometimes it can actually go the other way.

Actions can spark feelings, man.

Yeah.

Sage advice for anybody, Allie.

It is.

Speaking of the, the actor stuff, the guy who plays Kyle,

the lead of the, of the dbags, other than Xander, um, I looked him up cause

I was like, he looks really familiar.

Is he...

cause he kind of sounded like another actor from a TV show.

So I looked him up.

He has been doing very well for himself.

So snaps, snaps to him.

Good for him!

He has had really consistent IMDB credits and he's like on real shows

and things and yeah, just good for him.

But this was actually his first, as far as IMDB goes, I'm sure he

was in plenty of stuff before this.

Um, this is his first IMDB credit.

Wow.

That's pretty neat.

A good, pretty good start.

And he did well here, so maybe, maybe this was

a launching off point for him.

Who knows?

Yeah.

What was your next note?

Um, my next note is, okay, so at this point, Xander is infected,

but not totally infected whatever.

They're at The Bronze.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, Buffy and Willow are talking and then Xander walks in.

And then I have a note that mega prowl Xander, Xander on the prowl...

Mm-hmm.

I'm not mad about it.

Okay.

I have a very similar note of Buffy the Vampire Slayer proving time and

time again that confidence is sexy.

Yeah.

That is why bad guy- I think that is the pinpoint of why bad guys are

hot because they've got all that pride, all of that attitude, all of that stuff.

And that is just so fucking hot.

So when he, he comes in with no self consciousness, just

owning the room, that's hot!

It's so hot!

Yes, Xander.

Keep that, keep that, Xander.

Not the like eating people thing or the being mean to your friends, but that, that

confident walk you, you keep struting.

Right?

Also, a very fun costume note.

The sec, almost the second that he, I guess the first time we

see him after the possession, his clothing has changed to all dark.

It's darker!

It's all dark colors.

Whereas before we're seeing him in like these bright patterns, stuff like that.

As soon as we see him with that and, and throughout the whole episode, it's the

dark colors and like that dark jacket.

I was gonna say my, so my note is that I'm not mad about

Xander on the prowl, but I am a little mad about his less fun clothing.

But I guess, whatever, whatever.

We'll take what we can get.

But that is a very interesting - yes, the, uh, costume people on Buffy

really crush it, don't they?

Mm-hmm.

I have a note about Buffy's costume later on.

Cool.

Um, so clearly the episode is very, in addition to, you know, pack mentality,

fitting in, you know, cliques and stuff, also clearly about hormones

and like the effect of testosterone.

Because we do see the, like I said, we do see the girls, and that kind

of factors into the whole like mean girls and packs and stuff like that.

But, um, I feel like most of the actions done are from the guys of the group.

Yeah, so I, I had hormones and testosterone in addition to the desire

to change to be part of a group.

Um, no matter how toxic that change can be.

Can you, as a guy, cuz I know there's just the two of us here and I don't

have, well, I, I have testosterone in me, but not to the levels as you do.

So can you speak to that change or do you have any other like

reflections of what you saw around you with your peers in high school?

Ooh, Allie, that is a really question.

Evil testosterone.

Cause there are things that I've heard that factor into why, like,

why guys suppress emotions and stuff because like testosterone makes you

feel like angry all the time and blah, so you learn to suppress your emotions

so that you don't like constantly get in fights and things like that.

Hmm.

I would welcome your feedback if you ever- so when you say, when I imagine

a, like, teen guy feeling the full effects of test, like, man, hormones

are rage - that's not a great, that does not conjure up an amazing image for me.

It conjures up kind of a smelly image, some of like, uh, like little

toxic, little, uh, I don't know.

So I, uh, yeah, I hope that I - I don't know.

Did I ever, I would have to really reflect on that, Allie.

That is a really good question.

I think I was always more, definitely more in tune with my emotions

than the average teenage dude.

Um, I never felt like, like kind of another sense that I get from this

pack here is this like this, this feeling to conquer or feeling to

- Allie Press: Mmmmm.

Like that, that's like part of the bullying to me is this need to

- Allie Press: Sure.

I dunno.

Exert dominance kind of thing?

Exert dominance.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I never, I don't think I ever really felt like that either.

Yeah.

That's also just like, not really your personality.

What comes to mind for you when you think of, uh, when you think

of this pack mentality in high school?

Ooh.

In high school.

Uhhh...I guess, I guess something that comes to mind is one, one of our close,

close friends, Anna, ended up hanging out with a different group, uh, freshman year?

And I was like, not a fan of those people.

Uh, but like, I, it's not, like I saw Anna doing anything differently with them.

I was just like, well, you'll come back to me eventually.

[Nick laughs] Which is exactly what happened, by the way.

We'll let this one work itself out here.

Yeah, this is gonna work itself out.

Uh, and it did.

And, you know, we kept the good eggs and pitched the rest.

That is so funny.

There was one time, I think it was, I think it was sophomore

or junior year of high school.

I think it was...

I don't know, one of the two, we'll see where this story goes.

You can cut it out if it ends up being mad - bad.

But, uh, I think I was starting to try to get with, hang out with

another, another theater crew.

And Anna was actually one of the ones who pulled me aside and was like,

Nick, these are not- stop selling out.

[Allie laughing] Stop.

You need to - and I still remember that and I really respect her for doing that.

That's really funny.

Good on her.

She, she is very, very aware with things like that.

And she knows her values.

She does.

Goddamnit, Anna.

She absolutely does.

She's a gem.

Okay, okay, so we presented a challenge to Anna to text us last episode.

She, if she hears this, she needs to text us again this episode.

I asked for penguin last episode.

This episode, she needs to text...

zebra.

Zebra!

We're in the zoo.

Ooh, there you go.

There you go.

Um, but as far as like, I don't know, I floated, I had, I did

so many activities in school.

I floated among a lot of different groups.

So there was definitely some feeling of detachment of like, wow, I

don't really belong any one place?

And there was definitely some weird feelings of like, well, I didn't

quite feel like I fit in with the theater department because I

prioritized shows outside of school.

Because they were better quality and they gave me better roles.

So [Nick chuckling], yeah, so it felt weird to like, be an actor who wasn't

really part of the theater department.

And so I wasn't really part of that crew, which, in turn, left me out of

some drama, which was kind of nice.

I like to observe and hear about drama, but I don't like to be part of it.

I think that's a very distinct difference.

I mean, we didn't have, at least in my classes and in the areas, we

didn't really have a ton of people where I was observing bullying.

I felt really bad every standardized test when they would also tack on

that, like bullying survey because like, I'm sure there is bullying

that needs to be called out, but I was not personally observing it.

Hmm.

But I was like, it's high school, I guarantee it's happening.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think we did go to a mostly friendly high school overall.

Yeah.

Overall, especially compared with others, others in the county.

Um, I wrote down one of my next notes is, so Buffy's in the library,

uh, working out with Giles or whatever.

Um, one of these moves that she does is super dope.

She jumps up and kicks and hits his hand with both feet.

And I, I don't know.

I just felt like that move needed some kudos, cuz that was pretty dope.

Yes.

Snaps to that.

Uh, I have, my next note is, uh, we may have, I feel like we might

have been the last generation to actually play dodgeball in school.

Yeah, haha.

Or at least at aftercare.

I know we played it at, at aftercare.

Yeah, even our generation, we did not play it during school,

but yeah, it was an aftercare thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But we definitely did play it.

I, I saw a few times during this, I think the rules around dodgeball

changed by the time we came along, Allie.

I distinctly remember if you threw a ball and they caught it, you were out.

Correct.

They did not do that.

Mmm.

While, this one was just throw all the balls you want,

catch all the balls you want, but you only get out if you get hit.

Mm.

Yeah.

If you caught it, they were out and you got to bring in one of your players.

Oh, yeah, you're right!

Mm-hmm.

So I don't know.

I, I feel like there may have been, I don't know, for the purpose of the

filming, they may have changed some things and like, maybe they didn't want,

it might have had to do with the flow of the scene, like, they didn't want

too many people walking off, or I dunno.

There may have been some other...

Little dose of nostalgia for us.

Although, who doesn't remember being terrified when the dodgeball game started.

I mean, we also had rules about like, you know, chest and below.

Mm.

Mhm.

Um, I said the, the real line here where we

see like, Xander's definitely different is when he hits Willow.

Mm.

She just looks so hurt, doesn't she?

And just like baffled and yeah.

I love next when she, she calls him out on it afterwards.

She doesn't let time pass.

She goes like, what the heck was that?

Uh, and I, I have a sort of who, where the fuck is the teacher?

But then we see him after and he says, "God, this game is brutal.

I love it."

And you're like, oh, okay.

So he's, he's a dick and loves watching kids torture each other.

Okay.

You're a bad person.

Yeah!

Cause he wa- he- cause the pack gains up on that little guy.

So, and

- Allie Press: Pelting him!

I was curious about that.

I, um, so while I was doing my usual Googling for the show, I found out that

there, that that was a, they did that, well, of course they did it intentionally,

but apparently it's emblematic of hyenas.

They were going for the symbolism that hyenas in the wild will not go

for the strongest predator around

- Allie Press: Mhmm.

Which Buffy was the only remaining team member.

They'll instead pick off the weak, which was-

That makes sense.

their remember.

And that was one of those, I don't like this episode.

You are helping me relate to it more with this talk about the pack and this, like,

this pull that we feel in high school.

That helps me relate to a little bit more.

But this one, this piece too, I was like, okay, nevermind.

This isn't just a stupid episode.

I see a little bit more of the symbolism.

Well, I was, I do have a note there somewhere, um, of like,

I'm curious how biologically accurate what they're talking about is.

Um, cause I do like the idea that they put that thought into it, cuz I, I

didn't do my Googling like you did.

So that's cool that they, that they did it that way.

Um, I like to think that a smart show like this would do that thing.

Oh!

A note I skipped over when they're, um, in the hyena, when they're in the

hyena place, uh, at the beginning of the episode and they talk about the like,

hyenas will learn your name and call it at night to lure you away from the pack?

[Wigged out noise]

I, so I didn't look that up, but I did wanna look up like, obviously

hyenas don't learn your name, but I made a note for myself to follow up on that.

Like are hyenas particularly smart predators?

Mm-hmm.

Do they have, my...

I think they are...

Are they?

Yeah, relatively.

Cause I think they're, I think they're in the same realm of dogs.

Like, yeah, they're not like-

Yeah.

They're not like octopi, octopuses or anything.

They're not like that level of smart, but like they're not,

but they're not like dumb.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, but the idea of a predator saying my na - that would make me go

- Allie Press: Horrifying.

crazy and leave my house and wonder, and then when I leave my house,

they can descend upon me or something.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I thought that was, that was terrifying.

So, Xander has an alpha male inside of him.

Cause he does, he kind of becomes part of the group and

then he's kind of the leader.

He leads the group.

Yeah, like he kind of lets Kyle feel like he's in charge, but

they really are deferring to Xander.

Mm-hmm.

Which is very interesting because so clearly

that is, that's in there.

And when, and he's capable of some cruel things when he's letting that dominate.

Cuz I think we all have some not fantastic qualities inside of us.

But it's like how we choose to act or not act on those things

that makes us who we are.

But it's like when Xander's acting on instinct, there's some

not great stuff that happens.

Well, and we'll see that later, too.

His, uh, leadership capabilities when there is demonic energy involved.

I don't wanna say anything too much more and give out spoilers, but I wonder if

we're thinking of the same thing, Allie.

Um, it is interesting to think about how, uh, I don't know.

That's just a, that is a theme that will come up later on.

Yeah.

I'm now thinking of a, a couple different instances where we see

where, where we do end up seeing some of that like mature leader side.

Um, of course it's hard to be a leader when you're, when you're next to Buffy.

You may think you're a leader and then you see Buffy.

Um, I love a slow group walk.

Love it.

[ Nick chuckles] A dramatic, slow walk.

Love.

Um, Buffy calls them the "Dode Patrol."

And I was like, what the fuck is dode?

So I looked it up.

And I did find, um, it means socially inept or stupid.

So.

I didn't know that either.

I never, maybe that was like 90s slang?

I have no idea.

Or, or a carryover from 80s slang that we missed by the time in like early 2000s?

I don't know.

I, yeah, I didn't know that one.

I was moved by this exchange between Buffy and Willow.

Um, Buffy says to Willow, "I think there's something wrong with him."

And Willow says, "Or maybe there's something wrong with me."

In my notes accompanying that is in all caps, NO WILLOW.

YOU'RE PERFECT.

Goddamnit.

You're such a good friend.

You help with math and stuff.

Yeah, that was such a sad exchange.

Yeah.

For Willow.

I know.

I'm glad that it gets cleared up later on.

Abso- absolutely.

And, and it is sad.

I can see how difficult that must be on Buffy's part, like, I'm not

trying to pull Xander away from her.

Like she's clearly not interested in Xander.

But so hard to like, get blamed for it, but also feel it's sort of justified.

Uh, it's just so hard.

Um, I do have a funny quote when Buffy goes to Giles to talk about like,

I think something's like actually going on here, not just teenage-

I have one, too.

I wonder if it's the same one.

It might be.

Um, "It's terrible.

He's turned into a six year old boy.

Of course, of course, you'll have to kill him."

[Laughing] Giles, you are such a bitch.

I love you.

I know.

Such sass.

Um, but it is like low key some boys will be boys shit.

So, there's, there's that sense in this episode, there's,

Giles has another quote in that scene.

"Testosterone is a great equalizer.

It turns all men into morons."

Which is funny.

Also gets kind of at this idea too, this boys who will be boys.

No, testosterone does not turn anybody into morons.

Mm-hmm.

We are perfectly capable of not being mean to people.

Right.

Yeah.

Like it's not, it's like blaming crazy women

on, like, their periods.

Now, I'm not saying that mood swings aren't a thing cuz they hundo p are.

And there are times in your life where you don't have the self-awareness

- and some people never develop the self-awareness - to recognize when that

mood is your own versus not your own.

I didn't always- like high school, I did not have that as a period symptom.

I would get a little weepy during Glee.

And then I would be like, oh, I'm gonna start my period tomorrow.

And sure enough, I did.

It happened several weeks in a row, or several, several months in a row.

It was very odd.

I would cry during Glee and then think like, wow, that was weird.

And then I'd start my period the next day.

But then I changed up my birth control in college and I started having them - not

just being weepy, but sometimes the like weird giggly, which is actually

scarier than the depressed mood swing.

Yeah, I bet.

Um, and like the anger or like the sensitivity, it's very,

very odd and I'm lucky to be a pretty self-aware person, so I know, oh, this

isn't, this isn't me feeling this.

This is my period making me feel this.

But I can see where you might act out of testosterone-fueled rage or whatever.

And it's not about that not being okay, it's about like Giles could

have then sat him down and been like, I know this is what's going on, but

your behavior is not acceptable.

Right, right, right.

Yeah.

The, the solution as a much older man is not to be like, well, oh, well, shrug.

This is what they do.

We were all jerks in high school.

Take some action.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, I think there's so much of things just need to be a conversation.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it's not...

yeah.

I don't know.

Or like, I remember one of our teachers had to talk to one of the classes

because like the boys weren't showering.

Ew.

I don't know if you remember this in middle school.

There was a time, I think it was, I wanna say it was when we were in

seventh grade and we would come into health class and it would just reek.

And we said something to our teacher and she's like, I know, I'm gonna

have a talk with my sixth graders.

Ms.

Sicaaa..

I know Ms.

Sica was the best.

Um, and she was like, I'm gonna have a talk with the sixth graders.

I, I know.

Cause they don- like they, you stink!

And they don't get that you, like, showering is not

an optional thing anymore.

Right.

Anywho.

Um, I wrote down, just a note for myself that this is not

the first time and it will not be the last time that Buffy notices

something, says something's up, somebody back to her is like, no, it's fine.

And then it is indeed something.

She did the same thing with "Teacher's Pet."

Yeah.

She was like, there's something wrong with them.

And they were like, no, there's, they're just...

Yeah, you're right.

Ooh some Giles gas lighting.

I did have this note of Giles, you fought a human-sized praying mantis and

you're laughing at turning into a hyena?

Mmm.

Rude.

That's not the strangest thing you've seen now, Giles.

Come on.

Rude.

Yeah.

Um, also very interesting and I have a feeling this is one of

the scenes that you have a problem with so I'm interested to talk about it.

Xander able to sneak up on Buffy.

So, okay.

Yes.

Do, uh, let's, let's revisit the sexual assault that either

happens or is about to happen-

mm-hmm

-in that scene.

We'll put that on a shelf and come back to it because man, that's problematic.

But yeah, this, this thing Giles says later on too, I feel like, I feel like

it's not super well established that this being possessed by hyenas also gives

them supernatural abilities apparently?

Um, it does a bit.

It does, um, there, there's definitely some...

well, because the, uh, the zookeeper dude or the hyena enclosure dude, he wanted

it because it endows you with some power.

But it wasn't clear to me that...

like, as I was watching...

And it is actually said in the episode.

When Giles later on says, oh, one of them is nearly as

strong as you, let alone in a pack.

Right.

I remember being like, I don't, when did we

discover that they were...

I think it's kind of this scene.

And also the fact that they're able to like rip at flesh without tools.

Yeah, I don't know.

It just, I, uh...

They're able to eat a, eat a human person and a pig-

I

- Allie Press: -without tools.

I could have used, I, I could have used a

little bit more of a link here.

And it seems like we learn new things about the villains we fight, we learn they

have like abilities or whatever, but we're not surprised by them when he was able to

sneak up on Buffy, I was like, oh, Okay.

I guess.

All right.

Yeah.

Well, and I think-

I guess we're doing that.

they, their powers also grew as the hyena took over them more and more.

Yeah.

So I think we see a little more of it as we go through

the, the episode and yeah, just the fact that he's able to pin her.

She's able to push him off, but it, it's not easily.

She has to fight it.

Yeah, she does.

And I have this awful quote that I wrote down.

Um, "The more I scare you, the better you smell."

Ugh.

So, yeah.

So let's talk about thoughts on, on this sexual assault, cuz it

is absolutely sexual assault.

Um, I, it, I feel like this is one of those times where, um,

if this were being taped today, it would be, I, I think that there are ways to

get at the same energy of what they're saying, like this predator instinct

that, that Xander is being overcome by.

Mm-hmm.

I think nowadays, like they would've taped this in

a way that that's still would've been clear, but not what, like-

Mm-hmm.

The way, the way it's shown now, it could be

pretty triggering for somebody-

Absolutely.

Oh yeah.

to watch this.

I think that nowadays, like this may be one of those few times where this

piece just didn't age super well?

What do you think?

Yeah, so I have a few, I have a few thoughts on it.

Cuz yeah, it was definitely kind of hard to watch.

And I think we kind of have to treat it in a larger context with Buffy of

the things that they do don't run as deep because otherwise every, every

episode is a trauma-level event.

Yeah.

We've talked about that before.

Yeah.

That's a good reminder here, too.

We did, we did mention that.

So, cause yeah, I, my first thought was going to, even though she knows

that he's possessed by hyena and not himself, it is still her friend's

face and voice doing those things.

And I don't know how comfortable I would be afterwards with this friend.

Mm-hmm.

I can imagine that adjustment period, even, again, knowing,

knowing in your head, this is not him.

This is not him.

Because that is again the whole thing with Buffy of like it's

metaphorical, but also in the context of the show, he is possessed.

It is not just testosterone.

It goes way beyond that.

Um, and pretty much any of us, if we were stripped to our animal instincts

alone would not be great people.

Mm.

So, I can see where, in the context of the show, we're able to

move on, but if it were treated like all these things are as deep as they

would be, like, if this were Riverdale, this would have far more consequences

that would be closer to the real life of how trauma, trauma-inducing this

would be - traumatic this would be.

But in the context of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I, I think we're

allowed to give Xander forgiveness because he's not really him.

Kind of like what we will - I guess this is a little spoilery, but like,

you know, Angel versus Angelus.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Again, same face, but in the context of the show and this supernatural,

we know that that is not him.

Part of the difference between Angel and Angelus for me is

that Angelus is part, part of the reason Angel is the way he is, is because he's

racked with guilt over what he did.

Mm-hmm.

And then Xander pulls this trick at the end, this not remembering,

which is like lol, which is like funny how they handle it because,

but, but it's like, there's a, uh...

Lack of consequences?

Yeah.

I don't...

yeah, like there, there isn't a learning at all.

But I think there - I, I think there could be learning, though,

because - and this is, this is me filling things in, but I like to think

that informs Xander's future decisions.

Um, you know, like I feel like that maybe gives him, maybe he is racked with guilt.

And actually he's obviously racked with guilt, otherwise he wouldn't

pretend that he didn't remember.

That's true.

Yeah.

Well, that's true.

Um, so I like to think that it's a unpleasant, but a core

memory, nonetheless, that does affect his choices in the future.

We just don't necessarily see that, but we see him acting

with gentility and chivalry.

So we see his actions proving that he is a good guy.

Uh, that's true.

Still not thrilled with-

It's still not a fun, it's still not a fun scene.

For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It is an uncomfortable scene no matter, uh, however you turn it.

Uh, my next note-

I - oh, go ahead.

My next note, though, is Flutie walked so Snyder could run.

[Laughing] Oh, poor Principal Flutie!

I love him so much.

He's just, so what, what does he say?

"I've seen some sick things, but a piggy!

A little piggy!"

Oh, you were so gonna die.

My god.

Oh, oh, from day one, you had an X on your back.

Um, and I do have, quickly going back to that other scene, I do have at

least Buffy recognizes it as assault.

So it is not brushed off by Buffy.

It is recognized.

She comes in is like, oh, well he just tried to commit felony

assault and she does knock him out.

So.

Uh, true.

So there is kind of some ultimate good triumphing

over evil kind of stuff.

So there's that.

The cage comes in clutch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That, that, that cage was a good investment on Giles's part.

Um, the next scene after that one, I just thought it was silly, we don't

know any, maybe there's a perfectly logical explanation, but this woman

is just going for a casual, nighttime walk through the woods with her baby...

I'm glad she's safe.

I'm glad they didn't eat her, but it was like, okay, cool.

Great.

Yeah, people make some odd choices.

Uh, this, this is a question about, uh, Principal

Flutie, did nobody hear him screaming at the top of his lungs?

No, they're probably used to, they've heard weirder things

at Sunnydale High School than somebody screaming in their office.

I guess?

Yeah...

or, or was it after school?

Maybe?

So most people were gone?

Maybe.

That's a good point too.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah, because the next scene we see is very late at night, so

that would be a logical assumption to make that it's after...

We'll go with that.

It's after school so there weren't people nearby.

Question answered.

Um, I will say, quick story time, I have a soft spot for hyenas.

So I...

What?

I do, I have a soft spot for hyenas and I'll explain.

So, first of all, the comic book character Harley Quinn has pet hyenas.

So there you go.

There's that.

Simple.

I didn't know that.

That's neat.

One of them's named Bruce.

At least in, in the movie Birds of Prey he's named Bruce.

And then the other part is, so I was playing a DnD campaign - yes,

I'm a full-fledged nerd.

Thank you.

I was playing a DnD campaign and it was a character that I sort

of was inspired by Harley Quinn.

Um, and at one point, I rolled a really bad role.

So what was supposed to be, I think I used my crossbow or something like that, it

ended up completely missing and it hit and killed a mama hyena who had cubs with her.

[Nick gasps] So I, in game, took the pups with me and raised them as my own.

And so for a time, my character had these pet hyenas.

This is a, okay, okay.

That story ends nicely, though.

You got some pet hyenas.

That's good.

I know.

It's an awful beginning right there, but for a while I had, I had some pet hyenas.

You had some pet hyenas.

That's so funny.

I had a deep affection for them.

So there's my little Allie loves hyenas story.

I have a note here to look up, in the same way that

I wanted to look up if hyenas are abnormally smart, are hyenas, this

episode assumes they are evil.

I know there's like some predation there.

They, what, like I wanted to look up are hyenas...

I, just, just more into their personality.

You know, I looked up their laugh and the laugh sounds very similar-

Mm-hmm.

to what we heard, which is really interesting.

Um, I mean, if Lion King is to, is to be believed, they are kind

of the scourge of the animal kingdom.

They are thought of as like dirty scavengers.

Is kind of the impression that I get from them.

Same.

We need scavengers, though.

That's a good thing we need.

Sure, but people still, still shit on crows and stuff like that.

Oh, I was gonna say, I like crows.

Maybe I'm weird.

Who knows?

Maybe I'm the, maybe I'm the bad person.

No, crows bring you shiny things.

My mom loves crows.

Mm-hmm.

My mom's a weird bird person.

So.

Um, when Buffy is chasing the, uh, when she's trying to get the pack

of, the pack to follow her to the zoo.

Mm-hmm.

And she, she's, she's rescuing this family

that the pack has attacked.

She does this sick Slayer stance on top of the car.

Yeah.

Where she's like, look at me, come on!

Don't you want a real?

And it's just a badass Buffy moment that I liked.

Heck yeah.

After that name thing, which is ugh - awful.

Um, my question that same scene continue on in that same scene.

Um, how small is Sunnydale?

I wrote this question down too, Allie.

Okay.

I'm glad you brought this up because I have a note about this.

I mean, I know it's small, but...

I wasn't gonna bring it up because I feel like I've been the Debbie

Downer on this episode, but in The Bronze, Willow references Xander being a bad

mood on the way back on the, on the bus.

No, she says on the bus ride back.

So at some point they have decided that it is far enough that they

need a bus to get from the zoo back to school, wherever they're going.

Yeah.

But it looks like Buffy just ran - I don't know.

I'm suspending my disbelief.

Yeah, cause she runs on foot.

Cause like we, I guess we can assume that Giles and Willow drove to the zoo.

Because he has a car and we see his car and stuff.

Um, not yet, but like we will.

The timing of it, we have to assume that they couldn't have it.

They, yeah, there's no way they could have outrun.

Right.

So she, so she tracks them down and then has them follow her

on foot all the way to the zoo.

I'm really, I feel validated in my note taking.

Totally.

Thank you, Allie.

Because I, trust me, my mom is from a small town.

Like I have seen small towns that maybe you really could run from the library

to the school or something like that.

But towns that small don't have a zoo.

Zoos themself are not, their footprint is large.

They animals that need a lot of space.

Right!

Yeah.

Exactly.

So like Sunnydale would not have a zoo.

Their, maybe their county would have a zoo or some, but yeah, I'm totally with you.

Clearly Sunnydale just got, maybe they just had like somebody rich live

in that town and like they funded the zoo or something like that.

It was a pet project for that billionaire who lived there or something.

They like clearly constituted some kind of like quicker transportation.

Anyway.

Um, is someone keeping track of how many times Giles gets knocked out?

I hope, poor Giles.

Um, he's savage here.

Mm-hmm.

In this exchange that he has with the zookeeper.

When he says, this is just such a good example of, I, I don't know his, his wit-

mm-hmm

-really comes with an edge to it.

He says, "How terribly frustrating for you that a bunch of school children

could accomplish what you could not."

Yeeaaahhh!

Man.

Yeah.

And well, and he did

- Nick Mercer: Are you trying to

What do you, what is your goal here, Giles?

Man.

He does have a mean streak.

And I did have that thought earlier in the episode of like,

oh, that guy must be pissed.

That is not who that was supposed to happen to.

Oh, you idiot.

Man, you suck at your job.

Okay.

But then when he performs the spell or whatever, it's so quick.

It's like one sentence.

Mm-hmm.

So I was just like, okay, all right.

That was quick.

He, he also has no reason- I'm thrilled that he didn't kill Giles and

Willow, but I'm just thinking cynically from his perspective, I don't think that

he had a great reason to not kill...

if not Willow, then certainly Giles.

You're right.

He could have at least killed one of them because he did still need one

of them to be there to commit the act of violence or act of aggression

or whatever that the spell needed.

Oooooohhh.

But he only needs one.

You're right.

So he definitely could have killed, could have killed Giles

cuz he was the strong, stronger one.

Maybe it was more efficient to not, I don't know.

Who knows.

Very interesting.

Yeah.

I mean there are definitely some things that don't happen just

because like you can't kill Giles.

We can't kill Giles.

It's episode six.

Um, in the next scene, Buffy's pink skirt and the

superhero shirt she's wearing-

mm-hmm

-are everything.

Yep.

Fashion icon, fo sho.

And I do, I do love, uh, Xander getting called out by Giles,

like, I don't remember reading any memory loss in the books.

And Xander's just, "Shoot me, stuff me, mount me."

[Laughs] Yeah.

Yeah.

When he, uh, yeah, he pretends to not have done anything.

Yeah.

And, and-

I do, and I did write down, I guess his guilt is punishment.

Very true.

Um, I, that end quote from Giles there, "Your secret dies with me."

So good.

What a guy.

Cause then it's not, he's not the only one cuz that does mean

that, yeah, Giles is left knowing exactly what he did and knowing that he knows.

Yeah.

And true, good point.

So, and we do see him going out of his way to be sweet to

the girls after everything he said.

Um, so I think, if we're looking at a scoreboard, I think he ends up,

uh, still on the, the right side.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Okay.

This has, this has helped me-

Did I convince you?

-like this episode a little more.

I don't know if I, so I think I, I think what I don't love about this

episode and "Teacher's Pet," which are both Xander-focused episodes.

Mm-hmm.

I think what I don't love is like his, the learning that he does

as a character, I didn't think that he did any learning after this episode.

Your explanation has helped me.

I think where I still land is that I don't love that his character development

isn't because of, of him making the right choice or what- it's because

he underwent a spell and did things.

Mm-hmm.

And then got saved and then learned from it.

Like, I don't love that part of it.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Cause it's more of these things were acted on him rather than him

in a situation and making a choice.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Like he didn't break the spell himself through shear will or

what or something like that.

I get what you mean.

But that, that speaks to this idea in Buffy where,

that he is, he's a human working through these mystical forces so.

Well, and that does kind of end up being his role sort of.

You know, he ends up getting attacked a lot.

He ends up spells on him and...

you know?

Mm-hmm.

And like mind controlled and stuff like that.

So that also may kind of speak to Xander's weak will, weak mind?

Um, I think he's very strong of heart, but...

mmm, mm-hmm

...the fact that, like you said, a lot of this stuff happens to him.

Um, now we're treading into sounds like victim blaming,

but that's not what I mean.

Yeah, or just the idea like with hypnosis, you kind of have

to have like a willing mind...

Am I sort of making sense?

Mm-hmm.

Um, and, what he learns, what he goes through does certainly,

it helped the group overall.

Yeah.

Like as a Scooby gang, they get stronger.

And I do.

Yeah.

Including Xander.

They do evolve as a group.

And I think it's third season, there's a Xander focused show where

I think he has, has some really great growth, which is a very different

- Nick Mercer: Well, that's

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

That, that's the one that I thought of where I was like, this is an example

of a Xander-focused episode where he is going to make some choices,

Uhhuh and, and he, he thrives!

He crushes it.

And then there's like this one where yeah.

That one is a really fascinating episode.

I think it's a really fun thing that they did, um, kind of having a whole

episode that's like a meanwhile...

Yeah.

Listeners just wait!

We're so excited for that one!

Just wait, like season three is for real my fave.

Um, I love, I, I love it all, but of course I have my favorites.

All right, Nicholas!

Uhh think that about does it for this episode.

Thank you so much for joining us and we hope you'll join us again for

our next episode where we'll discuss season one, episode seven, "Angel."

Things get steamy!

And if you're just - Oh my god, yeah, Angel, oh, I love this episode.

Oh, it's so good.

Um, kiddos, if you are too excited to wait until our next episode to chat, send

us an email at tabularasabpod@gmail.com.

Alexandra Louise Press, where can people find you on social media?

Should I say your full name recording like that?

I hope so.

I just did.

You sure, sure did.

It is my name.

I do not deny that.

You can find me, dear listeners, at Daughterpick - D-A-U G-H-T E-R

P-I-C-K - on Instagram and Twitter.

You can find me @futureblackcat on TikTok.

And if you'd like to send a few dollars my way and learn more about my

journey as an artist, you can become a member at BuyMeACoffee.com/AlliePress.

That's A-L-L-I-E P-R-E-S-S.

And luckily, all of those social media handles are

going to be in the description.

Allie, I hope you have an absolutely stunning evening ahead of you.

You as well, my friend.

Make proud choices.

[Outro Music begins fading in]

Bye!

Tabula Rasa, B!tches is hosted by Allie Press and Nick

Mercer with music by InflatonCult, artwork by Charlotte Fleming Design,

and consultation by Evo Terra.