We're hyping Illumina — a free, outdoor, audience-driven art-and-theater piece at the Rochester Contemporary Art Center (RoCo) that literally needs you to make the show happen.

Check out the episode on Just Can't Not wherever you get your podcasts or on Lunchador.org!

https://player.captivate.fm/episode/60733d30-522c-40bd-ae97-09d85f8eb8ae/

We chatted with Heather Chang and Kate Sweeney from Monroe Community College about how this hybrid installation/performance folds audience contributions into the work, with actors and students making art throughout the evening and revealing a collective piece at the end. It runs outdoors at 7 p.m. on Sept. 18–19 and Sept. 25–26 as part of the Rochester Fringe Festival (which runs Sept. 15–26), and while the Fringe has a ton to see, Illumina is free and guaranteed to be different every night. I loved hearing how the students rehearse for unpredictability — we prepare for the shy crowd and the chatty crowd, and yes, we’ll probably try to make you join in. So come down to RoCo, bring a buddy (or an open mind), and get ready to be part of an art experiment — and if you want more Fringe action, go to rochesterfringe.com and pack your schedule.

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Roasters

Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!

Well, that music means it's time for another episode of Just Can't Not.

And this is part of our previews for the ESL Rochester Fringe Festival, happening from September 15th to the 26th in scenic downtown Rochester, New York.

Go to rochesterfringe.com to get your tickets for as many events as you can possibly go to.

And you want to do that.

And I'm here with some guests for one of the creative outputs from Fringe.

And guests, why don't you introduce yourselves?

Hi, my name is Heather Chang, and I'm a theater professor and the theater program director at Monroe Community College.

Awesome.

My name is Kate Sweeney and I'm the theater director at Monroe Community College.

Awesome.

So they're here to talk about a show called Illumina, and this is happening at the Rochester Contemporary Art Center.

So, Roko, great venue.

A huge fan of blue and everything they do over there.

So this is held there.

This is a free thing.

You can go see.

This is happening on both Friday and Saturday of both weeks.

So the 18th and 19th, and then the 25th and 26th, all of these are happening at 7 o' clock at Roco.

This is an outdoor show as well, so definitely swing out.

This is a great way to add something else into your day that one doesn't have cost and you can experience something a little bit different.

So why don't you describe what is the concept behind the show?

Well, Kate and I have been working with Roko for several years now, and we're very fortunate to have that collaboration with them.

And this year we wanted to do something a little bit different.

And we thought it would be really cool if we did more of an art installation along with a theatrical performance.

And we always like to incorporate the audience into our shows and so forth.

So the installation would actually not happen without the audience?

Yes.

For this particular show, the audience is a full participant.

So if you come down and check out the show, you will be part of it.

And we will be making art throughout the evening to be.

To reveal what the audience, as one collective, has brought together at the very end of the show.

Yeah, and I find it a very fascinating thing.

So one, you know, audience participation is not a new concept for any sort of art form, really.

You know, it's endemic to performance, to improv, to, you know, dance, to so many different things.

But to me, the fascinating part is how do you prepare?

How do you prepare for audience?

And how do you become comfortable enough to move around when the audience does pivot where you're heading?

And other things like that.

Is this something both of you have found comforting to have audience participation in your projects?

We've been pretty successful in our past shows where we've.

Where we've had active audience participation.

And.

And through rehearsal, I've been working with the actors on how to facilitate the performance so that they are comfortable with whatever might happen.

They might have audience members who are very eager and willing to participate.

They might have some that are a little bit more shy.

So we've kind of prepared them for both instances.

Yeah.

And this is our sixth, six or seven working in this.

The very first show that we created, it was just happenstance that we ended up being able to work so directly with the Rochester Contemporary Art center and Blue, and it just fit very well into the space of the Garden Outside.

And then, since then, we enjoyed our partnership so much that we wanted to continue to create shows specifically for that space.

And it's kind of.

I think, I feel like our Fringe journey is a little more unique than others because literally, Blue and Heather and myself, we meet as we're getting ready for Fringe submissions, and then Heather and I think of conceptually, some things, what we want to do, and kind of come up with an idea for the show.

And when Fringe submissions are due, we are at our busiest time in the semester, so we literally come up with an idea, basically.

Sure.

That Blue is on board with it as well, and everyone over there at Roko, and then we kind of put it aside until the summer, and then Heather and I kind of develop it and figure out the nuances of it.

And then we started last Monday at mcc.

And so literally, our students come back that participate in the show, and day one, they're at rehearsal and we hit the ground running, and we kind of figure out the show in the first couple of weeks, including using some of the student input, whatever, because we kind of create this very.

The concepts that we're going for are about participatory ness with the students, and we want them to have a little onus in the show, like, own it a little bit as well.

Yeah.

So what for the class that is engaging with this at mcc, what part of their school journey are they in at that point?

Is this early on?

Is this later?

In part of the, you know, part.

Of the program, we've had students who are in their first semester, and we've had students who have been there, you know, for three previous semesters.

So it's open to everybody.

It's not just open to theater majors either.

Anybody who's a student at the College is able to take the course.

I gotta say, that has to be, like, really fascinating, too, to have that opportunity.

Like, you know, somebody like, I'm an.

I was an engineering major in college.

I went to U of R. It's a lot of theoretical work.

It's a lot of math.

It's a lot of this.

And you only get so much time to spend on other subjects.

But, you know, at the beginning of things, you're just kind of learning the ropes, Right.

The first few weeks.

And you're going to be, what, Basically two weeks, you know, three weeks into a semester, and they're going to be performing or being involved in performing at that early.

That has to be both.

Like, super exciting to say, oh, this is practical.

Right.

This is happening.

But also has to be a little bit daunting.

How do you work through that process to get people comfortable in those situations?

It's a little bit exhilarating, you know, because we.

And it's very fringe, you know, we don't rehearse for months on end because then, you know, I find that the material gets very dull after a while.

And especially for a show that requires so much participation and.

And a lot is kind of left to what's going on in the moment.

And I think by explaining that to the students and by using the fringe model, and this is not a traditional type of theatrical experience where you rehearse for six weeks and have a tech week and everything.

And I think that adds to the excitement.

I think the festival itself adds to their excitement as well.

And they really kind of just hit the ground running.

And I think, you know, as Kate mentioned, we always have very.

They always input their ideas and so forth into the conception of the show and how it's gonna play out.

They add their ideas.

And I think that helps as well to kind of get rid of all of that nervousness.

Well.

Cause it makes them part of the show as well, because it's.

Especially for this particular show, they were able to, you know, work on their lines and things like that.

But also think about, you know, we just had this conversation in rehearsal yesterday.

Like, you know, you're going to plan for that.

No one's going to do what you ask them to do.

Yeah.

And that you're going to, you know, like.

And we have built, in times, like, there's a lot of it that is going to be kind of a form of improv, of working with the audience and making them be participatory in it.

And of course, you know, if you don't Want to, that's fine.

You can come and enjoy and just watch others do it, but we're going to try real hard to make you do it.

What I find it, you know, in many ways, like the prep and the building of those skills is the value for so many people, for the performers and for the people that are organizing.

Right.

So what I found I find so interesting about that is I find it very analogous to doing to doing interviewing.

Right.

You're always.

You never know how the other person's going to react.

You never know what they're going to do.

But you need to be prepared.

Right.

Are they going to be quiet?

Are you going to have to bring them out?

Right.

And all those little skills, yes, they're valuable for this moment, but they're also so valuable as life skills to learn.

How do you engage with people?

And it's not convincing them to do something.

It's how do you engage with them to understand people better.

And I think that's one of those skills that is so.

It's so generally important in life.

No, and I think that that's been a big part of what Heather's been doing with the students and during this rehearsal process is kind of making them feel comfortable to.

You know, we had the first week or so of really getting the material conceptually, what we're gonna do all of that down so that they understood it.

And then, you know, now we've shifted it to, okay, this is a possible scenario of something going awry or not going.

Exactly.

You know, it's never.

It's a.

It.

It's almost.

We're creating the show as we're creating the art that the show is about, all at the same time.

Yeah.

We often invite other students to come to rehearsals and.

And be our audience.

And sometimes we'll tell them, be a little bit rowdy, and we'll prepare the actors.

Okay, what are you going to do if people just won't stop talking, for example, and you're trying to get them to do something?

And that's been really helpful as well.

And it's gotten the other students interested, and they end up coming to the show during the festival, too.

So that's exciting.

Well, let's talk a little bit about a little of the technical side, too.

So this show has illuminated presentations of things.

Let's talk about the tech a little bit.

How does this function from a logistical standpoint?

Yes, people are contributing, but what are they contributing?

How does this roughly work?

Well, I'll talk about that.

Heather and I work very well, together doing that, I handle a lot of the technical elements and things like that.

So this is about creating something as a community, as an audience, being a community, coming together to create a piece of art.

So we have tangible things, we have tangible lights.

Do we have a little theater magic?

We'll control some of the elements and not leave it up to everyone.

Absolutely.

Because it is a show.

Absolutely.

Format's important.

Yes, yes, yes.

And are we thinking about all the variables, like, what if something.

And thankfully for what I feel like what we're creating right now.

And I say creating because we're not done yet.

We're not there yet.

We've only had a week and a half at this point.

And so what we're creating is, this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen, and we can just hope to get to our end goal.

So I did spend a good chunk of the summer for how we were doing this, thinking about the types of lights and things like that that we were going to bring into this, thinking about all of the factors, as I'm very versed with all the things that come with fringe, with weather and all of these things, like, what can we do so that no matter what, you know, we can pull off this show?

And also doing a lot of math of figuring out how we are going to create something, if we're going to create something specific, if we're going to create something abstract.

Um, I'll leave that up to if, you know, you have to come to the show to see how we decided.

Exactly.

No, that's fantastic.

Um, so I kind of want to.

I want to pivot into.

Let's talk about, you know, theater in general and, like, your experience.

So, like, Heather, for you, like, when did.

When did theater seem like something that you had to be a part of in your life?

For me, it was very young.

I was very young, very early in my life.

My parents took me to see a production of Godspell, and we were in the front row.

And during the end song, right before the curtain call, the cast had people come up on stage, and somebody from the cast scooped me up out of my seat.

I think I was maybe 4 or 5, and I was in the spotlight.

And then I thought to myself, I could get used to this.

I like being in the spotlight and being on stage.

So for me, it was very, very early on.

Yeah, because that, you know, that.

That moment where somebody sees, like, you know, they watch this movie, that resonates with them forever.

But those.

Those moments where you get to feel something exactly right is Those are things that lock into your head.

It's not just the attendance.

It's not just that.

It was, oh, I got to feel that moment of being, hey, I did the work.

Not necessarily the work, but I got to feel that for a second.

And then you're chasing that forever.

Exactly.

So for me, similar.

A different show.

My parents took me to see Sweeney Todd and.

Oh yeah.

And it is my favorite musical, not because it's my last name, but at the end, I was a similar age.

I was five or six or something.

And I was like, oh, I want to do that.

My dad was like, oh, you want to be on stage?

And I was like, no, I want to build the box.

Wow.

And.

Cause I was always very technical minded, like, enjoyed playing with things and taking apart VCRs and doing all that.

I was always on the technical side and then got involved in doing technical theater in high school and kind of got a lot of nice opportunities and just been.

I've been at MCC for 25 years and I've had the opportunity to do stuff all over the city and all over the world with my set design, lighting design, production work.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And I have to imagine, like also a very specific kind of parent that takes a five or six year old to Sweeney Todd.

Well, you know, it was the 80s.

It was a different time.

No, and I love that too because, like, you know, you're kind of representing that, you know, what is your theater is.

So it's not just one thing.

Right.

It's.

It can be.

You can be the person in the front of the stage and you can be the person that makes the person on the front of the stage successful through all of the technical work and otherwise.

And I have to imagine like that, you know, when you're both working together on these kind of things that, you know that it's not optimization, but it's that relationship when, you know, the work that goes into both aspects.

Literally.

Today we just had a.

We just talked to all of our new theater majors at MCC telling you about how everything they do is a collaboration and one.

One person not fulfilling their end of things goes down the road.

Yes.

It might be that, you know, the hierarchy is that Heather and I are making final decisions, but everyone has to be participatory in it.

And that's how theater and art, all of these things in especially theater, are created.

Yeah.

And it's kind of cool that we're all.

We all come from different backgrounds and we have different skill sets, but we're all there for one reason, to work on this one piece of art and, you know, to make that successful no matter what we bring to the table.

Yeah.

So I have to imagine, like, there has to be one of those, like, kind of important educational moments as well, because there's, you know, when.

When somebody has this, you know, they might have this pure goal.

Right.

I want to be center stage.

I want to be number one on the call sheet.

I want to be the star of the show.

There's.

You can be so focused on performance and that, you know, hey, you have to be the star.

You have to act like the star.

You have to be this.

And I know from, you know, the fields that I.

That I live in, right.

Which is engineering, and otherwise you see people coming out of school or programming, you're like, oh, you're so involved in that, and you forget about the logistics that make any business work, that make things operate.

Right.

It's the.

It's the accountants, it's the people cleaning the building.

It's the people making everything work.

And I have to imagine it's one of those moments, especially if people have been a performer their whole time and they're so isolated, that.

That moment of saying, hey, no, you have to think about.

You have to work with the other side.

It's not just, oh, they're helping you.

You have to work with them.

It's a.

It's a real effort.

And I think it's also one of those very specific life lessons if you're.

If you have been isolated and you'll been focused on as this person, that you have to sometimes be pulled back a little bit to say, hey, no, you have to.

You have to be really involved with this stuff, too.

And not just, oh, they're going to do it.

I don't have to talk to them.

Right.

Well, it's also about professional courtesies.

And, you know, that's something that Heather and I pride ourselves with our students as far as being.

If they're a technician, if they're a performer, if they're a singer, they're never gonna stop learning.

They're never gonna stop getting better and better at their craft, whatever that is.

But if they can leave us with having those professional courtesies and respecting the process, like, that's a win for us.

Like, you're hopefully, no matter what you do, you're gonna get better than ever.

Even if you were the best you ever were when you saw us as a technician or a performer, hopefully, you're gonna continue to get better.

Yeah.

But if I.

If we can teach you, like, you have to respect everyone on the team.

We all have to work together.

We have to create this collective vision.

That's.

That's what we're shooting for.

And the cool thing about theater is, you know, even if they end up not doing theater, if they decide, you know, to go into something else, those basic communication skills, professionalism, respect, that'll carry through no matter what they decide to go into.

Absolutely.

Well, and I think it's also, you know, it's these, those.

Those are the things that make people want to bring you in to a show that it's not that you're skilled.

There's so many people that are talented actors, there's so many people that are talented technicians.

But the things that make people want to call you back the next time you work with them once, the thing that makes people want to call you back the next time is that you were a good.

I'm going to use the term, you're a good hang.

Right.

You were respectful to the producer, respectful to the director.

You're respectful to the other people in the organization and to the other side from where you are.

Those are the things that make people want to come back.

Those are the things that make people call you for the next show or maybe give you that next opportunity.

And it's not about give and get.

It's being good to others is the reward.

And yeah, sometimes people call you back, too.

Exactly.

No 100%.

And that's.

That's something that we always want, like, the students to understand.

Like.

And also on the other side, if you're someone who didn't show up, we want you to know what the full gravity of that meant.

Right.

And why that might not be.

You know, we tell our students all the time, like, you know, Rocher in particular has an amazing art scene scene and theater scene, and there's so much.

But it's still a small knit community, and even in New York City, it's still a small knit community.

So that word travels fast.

Yeah, absolutely.

And like, hey, everybody has connections no matter where you are, and somebody asks the question, you want to be able to confidently say, absolutely, you should bring them in.

So what I'm kind of intrigued about is, you know, theater is this.

Is this art form.

Right.

We've got hundreds of years of plays and things that are very popular, you know, to this day, and we know so many different things when you're, you know, I'm not sure how you know, when you're teaching.

So is this more of an active teaching is that where you're both involved in is like actually helping with the performances or is it more from a education side?

Where do you live in the education side of theater?

Well, it's both.

We have, you know, we, we have regular courses, you know, in all, all of the theatrical disciplines.

You know, I do, I teach mostly performance.

I do teach a costume class, there's a stage makeup class.

There's also tech classes.

Oh, wow.

Where, you know, the students will learn about all the different technical elements.

So, you know, there, there are courses and sometimes within those courses, they're required to work on a show.

At mcc, the shows are also courses.

So they're classes.

They're not like extracurricular after school or whatever.

Um, so they are, you know, earning a grade for being in the show, whether they have a technical job or if they're on stage.

Okay.

I have to imagine that's an interesting thing to like the grading rubrics for.

You know, that whole thing has to be fan kind of interesting.

Well, as far as from the technical side too, and also for the performance side, like it's about the, the grading rubric ends up being more about what they learned, not how well they did it.

Yeah.

You know, because, you know, like from the technical side, they always have to.

Almost all of our technical classes, they have to participate some way in the show.

If you're pre built, if you're working shop hours and building the show ahead of time, or if you're actually working production week or for the costume class, you're working and helping pull costumes ahead, like all of that, we want them to be participatory in the show because that's.

If this is what you want to do, you have to really do it and you have to actually do it.

It's okay that if you're not perfect, but you have to do it, you.

Have to be able to take direction well and understand that if you are given a note, it's not a personal issue, it's just something that has to be fixed.

It might be for performance sake, it might be for safety's sake, but being able to take criticism, being able to problem solve, you know, all of those things are, are factored into the grading.

Yeah.

So in my, my rambling last question, I was.

My initial thought was going down the, you know, theater has this long road and I imagine that, you know, there's so many different elements of performance.

Right.

So, you know, theater can be.

Musicals can be.

Plays can be one person, shows can be, you know, can be Live and interactive.

Can be very practiced.

Can be this.

I imagine that has to be, like, wildly satisfying to see all the different styles of art forms.

When you're, you know, when you're thinking about, like, what is the thing you like to.

That you like to communicate the most to people?

Is it about, like, is it the, you know, when it comes to genre, like, what's your favorite thing?

Is it like the classic plays?

Is it, you know, things that are pushing the boundaries?

Is it, you know, these creative new ways of looking at things?

What for you.

What's your favorite thing in theater that you like to tell people about?

Because this is what I love.

I like to do theater that.

That kind of brings awareness or is.

Sometimes talks about controversial subjects, is kind of in your face, gets people talking, gets people, you know, know, even.

Even if they aren't, you know, really into the show, you know, if it's not their cup of tea, I would like them to at least be able to talk about it and get something out of it.

You know, I like to really make a statement and.

And have the audience feel something.

Yeah.

Even if it's not necessarily like, they don't even.

You don't.

You don't even have to like it.

But if you engaged with it, I think that's also one of those amazing moments.

No, I.

100% Agree.

I feel like Heather and I both kind of have a passion for a little bit of theater with purpose.

Like, I want you to see something and feel something.

It doesn't matter what it is.

It could be sad, it could be mad, it could be joyousness.

Any of those things.

It doesn't particularly matter.

Like, Heather does like the classics.

I'm not a big fan.

I'll say it.

I hate Shakespeare.

And, you know, but those pieces are important, and they're important in the educational process and everything else.

But we do try to think about also where our students are at.

What are they going to get excited about doing.

When we choose our shows for MCC or create our shows, we always think about our students first.

Like, are they going to enjoy, like, we might like to do it, but if they don't want to do it, then that's going to be a, you know, more of a bear than putting on a show already is.

Right.

You don't want to have to drag somebody kicking and screaming to doing a show they don't want to do.

But also, hey, sometimes you're there to do the bit, so do the bit and do the best you can during that show.

Right.

So Speaking of doing the best you can, if you want to show up and participate in a fringe show, you should go to Illumina on September 18th, Sunday the 19th, Friday the 25th, or September 26th, all seven o' clock outside of Roko.

It's a great opportunity to participate in a very cool fringe show.

So any other plugs that you'd like to put out for Yohei MCC shows or anything else you want people to follow?

Sure.

We are putting on our fall musical the weekend before Thanksgiving.

So that's November 20th, 21st and 22nd.

19.

It's 20th and 21st.

Oh, is it?

Yeah, same day.

Kate is in charge of all the scheduling.

I'm like, oh, wouldn't it be great if we had this?

So the show is Something Rotten.

So speaking of Shakespeare, it takes place in Elizabethan England, and it's about two brothers who decide they're going to write the world's first musical.

Love it.

Yeah, it's a great show.

And, you know, come out and see a luminary.

You can come every night.

It is going to be different every night, and we will create a different piece of art each night, so that will be different.

We have something Rotten.

And then coming up in April, we're doing the 39 steps, and then we're onto our 50th annual children's show where we perform for our MCC students, perform for local elementary schools, and for that one, we're doing Dragons Loves Tacos.

I mean, that sounds like a delight.

I mean, it has to be so much fun to participate in that, too.

It just has to be so much fun to do that and just be big and, you know, act in that kind of way for kids.

So thank you so much both for coming over.

Make sure you get out to Illumina and we'll see you out on the fringe.

This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.