Stephen Nellis, a family medicine doctor and Army flight surgeon, exemplifies the strategic utilization of military resources to construct a passive real estate portfolio while maintaining his active duty commitments. He skillfully transitioned from conventional stock market investments to a lucrative midterm rental strategy, thereby overcoming the prevalent challenges of analysis paralysis. By employing the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) and VA loans, Stephen adeptly financed his real estate ventures, specifically targeting high-demand markets in Evansville, Indiana. This episode elucidates the significance of leveraging overlooked military tools and the importance of taking decisive action in the realm of real estate investment. Ultimately, Stephen's narrative serves as a compelling testament to the potential for financial independence, even amidst the rigorous demands of military service. The conversation revolves around the remarkable journey of Dr. Stephen Nellis, an Army flight surgeon who has adeptly navigated the complexities of building a passive real estate portfolio while maintaining his military commitments. Initially entrenched in traditional stock market investments, Dr. Nellis transitioned to real estate by utilizing military-specific financial instruments such as the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) and Veterans Affairs (VA) loans. He recounts his experience with TSP loans, explaining their strategic use as a means to fund down payments and closing costs for his properties. The episode further elaborates on the evolution of his investment strategy, particularly his shift from short-term rentals to midterm rentals, which cater to high-demand niches including travel healthcare professionals and displaced families. Through his narrative, Dr. Nellis emphasizes the importance of taking action and overcoming analysis paralysis, illustrating how his proactive approach has led to the successful acquisition of multiple cash-flowing properties in Evansville, Indiana. The discussion also touches upon the significance of leveraging one's unique professional background in navigating the real estate market, underscoring the potential for military professionals to utilize overlooked financial tools to build wealth. This episode serves as an insightful resource for those seeking to understand the interplay between military service and real estate investing, offering practical advice and inspiration for aspiring investors.

Takeaways:

1. Stephen Nellis transitioned from traditional stock market investing to a focused real estate strategy.
2. Utilizing military-specific financial tools, such as TSP loans, can facilitate real estate investments.
3. Midterm rentals can provide significant cash flow by catering to high-demand niches like travel healthcare.
4. Taking decisive action is paramount; overcoming analysis paralysis can lead to successful investments.
5. The midterm rental model allows for less tenant turnover and stable cash flow compared to short-term rentals.
6. Investing in residential assisted living through syndication has potential for both profit and community benefit.

Links referenced in this episode:

1. Furnished Finder
2. Stephen M.Nellis gmail.com
3. White Coat investor
4. Die with Zero
5. Alex Schloes Physicians and Properties podcast

I was very into investing as much as I could into the stock market, into broad based index funds. And so I would throw a lot of money into my TSP, tried to max it out like 23,000 a year or so.

And I did that for the first few years of my military career.

And then as I finally started to take more of a real estate approach, I felt comfortable taking some of that money out, knowing that I would be paying an interest rate that was below the market to myself, really. So I wasn't paying an interest rate to anyone else. All that money was going back into my tsp.

Welcome to Truly Passive Income. I'm Neil Henderson.

And I'm Clint Harris. And today's guest is Stephen Nellis.

He's a family medicine doctor and army flight surgeon who turned a personal finance hobby into a focused real estate strategy. While on active duty and even during deployment, he built a small portfolio of cash flowing midterm rentals in the Midwest.

He used tools many military professionals overlook, including VA loans and TSP loans, and move from learning mode to execution fast. His story highlights how taking action, not chasing perfect timing, created his momentum. Stephen, we appreciate you being here today.

Thank you very much for your time. How are you, sir?

I'm doing great. How are you guys doing?

Great, thank you.

Excited to have you here.

Yeah.

Excited to have a physician, military background and somehow with all that stuff that you're doing that must not take up any of your time, you're building a real estate portfolio on the side. So obviously you got a lot going on, which means you're probably doing it very strategically because of the limited time.

I want to kind of get straight into your physician, army, flight surgeon. How did you decide that you wanted to complicate your life with real estate and how did you decide to head in the direction of midterm rentals?

Yeah, so it was actually kind of serendipitous. So I currently, I am stationed about an hour and a half from my hometown.

So with my wife and two kids and dogs, we would travel to visit family, you know, maybe once a month. And it was just there wasn't any, any place for us to stay.

So at one point I just, you know, thought it'd be a good idea to maybe get a secondary house in our hometown and tried to actually start it with short term rental when we weren't there and just kind of fell into a the midterm strategy with it with a website called Furnished Finder and started with one and then kind of added once that once I became successful I've kind of added one every year since. Right now I have three all up in my hometown, where I do end up, where I will end up living when I'm out of the military as well.

So, you know, I read a little bit about your background. I've heard an interview with you. You spent years learning about personal finance before buying your first property. Sounds really very familiar to me.

What pushed you from learning to action and what changed once you made that first move?

Yeah, so I think I just, you know, the fact that I have a pretty stable v2 income kind of gave me the courage, I think, to kind of step into something new, into real estate and because, you know, the worst case scenario in my mind was, you know, end up. End up selling it.

I still have my stable YouTube income, and I just felt at the time it was time to, you know, actually take action for once instead of trying to digest all the information out there from people that, you know, have taken action.

Yeah, making that first step, that first action step is, is usually the hardest one. That analysis paralysis that sets in that, you know, eventually you get to the point that imperfect action is better than perfect inaction.

And it's really that, that first step that kind of gets you rolling. I want to ask you this. Your situation is pretty unique because your time is so limited.

I mean, kids, dogs, career, medicine, military, everything else.

My suspicion is you're probably buying properties that are turnkey and ready to go, or are you focusing on buying properties that do need renovation and you're trying to get value add so that you can create enough forced appreciation to refinance and recapitalize, pull money out?

Or is it to the point that your time is so valuable that it's worth just finding a decent deal, paying a little bit more, and just go ahead and getting the property, getting it up and running, and then just recapitalized by keeping the main thing. The main thing and getting paid back through your job. How are you scaling?

That's. That's exactly right, actually.

So I look for properties that have already recently been flipped or was being used as an Airbnb short term rental previously. I look for those properties. And for every property I've actually bought, I've. They've also included the furnishing.

I've also made that part of the deal. I am, I'm lucky enough to have a cousin who's a real estate agent and she does property management for me. So it's really good to have her on my team.

And she, she does a lot of A lot of the groundwork and helping me buy the properties, inspect, and then also get that furnishing in there.

There's.

There's one common denominator that I have seen, I think every time I've talked to somebody working on midterm rentals is that they backed into the strategy. I don't know of anybody who's like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to grow a midterm rental portfolio. What?

So my wife and I have had four Airbnbs. We just recently got rid of one of the quadplexes and we're down to 10.

And now it's falling drastically because the performance is not there, because the supply was greater than the demand, with the exception of just the peak season. And so a lot of people bought using the bad data that came out of those two amazing years of short term rentals that we had.

Right after Covid, when everyone was location independent and everyone had stimulus money, well, all of a sudden everything came crashing back down to earth. And the people that weren't making the deals pencil a lot of them in areas that made sense flipped to midterm rentals.

And the few people that are doing that really well have stayed in that.

Because the one thing about short term rentals that you can't control is if it's in an area where you're allowed to do it, you can't control how many other people are doing it. If it's an area that you have to have a permit and you're grandfathered in, that's actually a good thing in my mind, because it creates exclusivity.

That strategy is a lot less work than short term rentals because instead of six to eight tenants per month, you end up with one tenant, sometimes for six to eight months, usually more like a month to three months. Something like that. The interesting thing is finding that tenant and being in a market where it makes sense.

So a lot of times that's travel nurses in Wilmington, North Carolina, where we live. A lot of times it's the film industry and people coming to town for a month or two at a time.

What is it about your hometown that makes that strategy work when short term rentals wasn't working as well for the people in that community?

Yeah, so I, I'm from Evansville, Indiana.

So it's a, it's a relatively, you know, it's the third, third largest city in Indiana, but it's not, not, not huge by any means, not a metropolitan area. But what it does have, it does have two major hospital systems and you know, so yeah, definitely travel healthcare is a big one also.

They are, they're always, you know, building stuff there.

So the construction, I find that a lot of the times, a lot of my tenants end up being electricians, trade workers that are there that are contracted for a job.

And then another thing, another interesting piece with midterm rentals is you get a lot of insurance companies that, who, you know, people even in the area who've been displaced by a fire flood and need about, you know, three months to six months for the repairs on their home.

The insurance company, they look for midterm rentals to kind of put the family up in, in a, in a location that's, that's still nearby and can kind of give them what they need instead of doing like a hotel or something like that.

So how do you, are you looking at it differently than an Airbnb investor would?

Like, is there a certain bedroom formation, a certain yard formation, fenced in yard, garage, like obviously washers and dryers encouraging longer stays. Like what are the metrics that you're looking at to know that something's going to be a strong midterm rental?

Yeah, so I do look at those, those sort of things. I kind of look at it as I would maybe like a long term rental as far as when I would want, like the place that I'd want.

So most of mine are three bedroom, one to two bathroom, fenced in, yard, garage, you know, basically because in my mind a midterm rental is, is the best of both worlds for a short term, between a short term and a long term rental. You know, the tenants, they, they're going to be there for an extended period of time. A lot of times they're working.

So, you know, it really is, you know, their home whenever, whenever they're not working. So they treat it like their home.

It's not going to be kind of like that churn and burn of the short term rental, but it's also not going to be someone that's, you know, kind of there maybe like neglecting some of the stuff that, that may have a two, three year year lease. So I find that that's what I look for is a place that I would want to, that I would want to stay if I was working as a medical student.

You know, you go places for a month, two months and work there. So it's kind of, I'm kind of looking from that, from that aspect of it.

How so you used TSP loan? So I've got two questions on there. First of all, you, I'm gonna have to ask you what a TSP loan

is a question too.

I'm stealing it. And then walk us through how you evaluated that decision and the risks that you focused on before pull pulling the trigger on those three properties.

Yeah, so TSP is the, basically the military's form of a 401k and TSP loan is similar to a 401k loan. So you pull it out at a specific interest rate that is typically the bond, the bond fund market that is in the TSP is the interest rate.

And then you have a certain time to pay it back. And usually it comes out of your, it comes out of your paycheck every month.

So, so there's, and you usually have between five to 10 years to pay it back. I've taken out about four TSP loans and I paid them all back within a year.

And I think my, my thought is, because it, my, I think my journey kind of evolved from initially when I started, I was very into investing as much as I could into the stock market, into broad based index funds. And so I would, you know, throw a lot of money into my, my tsp, tried to max it out like 20, 23,000 a year or so.

And I did that for the first, the first few years of my military career.

And then as I finally started to take more of a real estate approach, I felt comfortable taking some of that money out, knowing that I would be paying an interest rate that was below the market to myself really. So I wasn't paying an interest rate to anyone else. All that money was going back into my tsp and I felt that it was a safe bet.

And I just kind of bet on myself that I'd be able to pay it back, pick up some extra shifts moonlighting. And I've been able to do that.

Were you just understanding the mechanics here? Were you buying the properties a hundred percent with the money from your TSP loan or were you combining it with a traditional loan?

Yeah, I would. All my, all my properties have been combined with actually traditional mortgages. My first two were secondary home mortgages.

So my initial one, you know, was 10 down. And then I used the TSP loan to kind of help with the, with the down payment and the closing costs.

I was able to do that again with my second one as my family got bigger, you know, we, we were able to make it work to say yeah, we need a bigger property to stay. And so they were able to do that. And then the third one, I actually put 20% down and just got a traditional, traditional loan.

So you know, I am, I would say I'm decently leveraged in, in these deals but you know, I just kind of have faith in the, in the appreciation and the cash flow that you know, that's, that's occurring and as well as, you know, the fact if I wanted to, I could just, you know, pick up more shifts and I'd be okay. So I think that's kind of the, I know not everyone has that luxury.

I think, you know, as someone who's a high income professional, you know, trying to, moving towards real estate, just kind of knowing that you have that, that backstop is helpful just to make a,

to make and one of the things is like single family properties like this is oftentimes a very slow way to get ahead, but it's a great starting point and it keeps your equity tied up for a long time and, and continues to build over time. And in something like this, a lot of phys, you guys have your way to, you could save your way to retirement. Very few people can do that anymore.

You could save your way to retirement, but a lot of times it's hard to keep up with that lifestyle Creek creep. The best thing in my mind is what you're doing is playing offense and it's investing your way to retirement if that's what you decide to do.

And you also have, with the new tax bill that was signed into law, you have the ability to tap into a lot of accelerated depreciation at some point in the future. If you decided to do cost segregation studies and take that.

But my question for you, Dr. Nellis, is you are heading in a direction where time, you are going to have less and less time and your time becomes worth more as you're moving down your, your white coat professional healing career and helping a Lot of people and changing a lot of lives, your time becomes more and more valuable, not just because of what it's worth as a physician, but because of what it's worth to your family.

And so a lot of times in that role, we see people moving up to bigger projects where you realize, look, any, any real estate project I do takes up a certain amount of my mental time and my mental energy. So I'm gonna take a bite. I might as well take the biggest bite that I can.

And I looked originally at single family homes as a destination, and then I realized it was a stepping stone to small multifamily.

And I looked at that as a destination until I realized that was a stepping stone to converting those to Airbnbs and then converting that to property management and then getting burned out on tenants and then making. Moving to storage. So question for you is, what's next? What do you think is your destination?

And as you're heading down a career path where traditionally we see real estate investors just keep rising to the occasion and taking bigger and bigger steps, and we know you're probably going to have less time, your time is going to be more valuable. What do you think is coming down the pipeline for you and what are you looking at in the future?

Yeah, thanks for, thanks for that question. It's a good segue. So I first, actually first heard of your podcast.

On another podcast, I heard you talking, Clint, on Alex Schloes Physicians and Properties podcast.

Yeah.

And so I know Alex. He is also. He was a family medicine physician. He is a family medicine physician. He's in the Air Force or he was in the Air Force. So.

So, yeah, and I actually just invested in his. One of his projects, one of his syndication projects. So I think, I think that's probably where I'm headed.

You know, I've, I've seen a lot of, a lot of different options. You know, there's, you know, farmland. You know, the self storage that you guys do is. I've been looking into that. Nomad, Nomad Capital. It's.

It's awesome. And, and yeah, I think I'm likely going to be switching to, to more syndications, more hands off.

I do enjoy right now what I'm doing with the midterm rentals. But, yeah, if I'm going to move to more of a passive, then I think that's the next step.

Well, it's such a, you know, Clint and I talk about this all the time. What a sort of a cliche of a journey it is. I'm not calling You a cliche. I'm, I'm.

Clint and I are both examples of this cliche is where you start off in single family homes and then you move to, you know, maybe a small multi family and you know, maybe you get more exotic strategy.

You jumped right into the midterm rental strategy and then like Clint says, eventually your time becomes worth more than whatever you're making from the passive strategy, you know, and we talked about this beforehand, is, you know, there's no such thing as truly passive income. That's kind of the joke of our podcast. And, and you. The passivity of something becomes more and more important.

And eventually, you know, I, I invested in syndications before, even before I started syndicating on my own.

And it's sort of a, a natural progression, you know, and especially for as you start to earn income either from your, your, your main thing or from your side hustles like these midterm rentals and things like that. It's just a very natural progression.

Yeah.

And it's not always linear, right? No, it starts off that way.

But here's the thing, the, it's the same story that we see a lot of times, but the thing that's different is the fundamentals are the same, but the way that people take those fundamentals and apply them is wildly different.

Some people look at your skillset like it may be raising capital, underwriting deals, whatever it may be, but at the end of the day, finding the deal, funding the deal, understanding the dynamics of the market, forced appreciation, and then recapitalization is the hard part. Recapitalization is really hard for a lot of people. They have to find a way to pull equity back out of the deal.

You're going to be in that unique scenario where you can fairly rapidly save your way to repaying a TSP loan and continuing to scale and move forward. So I love that.

And it's not going to take you too long before you're getting to the point of where that cash flow is generating what you need to continue to invest in syndication. Let me ask you this, because this is something that we see a lot.

The average investor that we come in contact with that is investing in syndication for the first time has finally gotten to the point, usually after 20 years of active investing, they get to the point where their time is worth more than anything else. And they are usually like 54 to 58 years old. You are obviously a lot younger than that and you're well ahead of schedule than we typically see.

But that first investor, a lot of Times is like, ooh, that looks good. Let me go for that. I like this deal that's shiny. This ad looks good. I like the way that that guy sounded on the podcast.

And Neil and I are of the opinion that most of the time that syndication investing is done backwards.

A lot of what I think is that people should establish the goals that they have for their family with their wife, their husband, their spouse, whoever. Figure out what you're trying to do because there's nothing on a piece of paper that makes a deal a good deal.

What makes a deal a good deal is if it fits in with the goals that you have for your family and what you're trying to accomplish for your children.

So when you were looking at getting invested with Alex, I think you picked a solid person, like in terms of character, your morality, ethics, communication, the important stuff. How did you and your wife look at that opportunity and make that decision? Did you have those conversations or what did it look like for you?

Give us your personal anecdotes about that.

Yeah, so the deal we invested in, it's residential assisted living.

So it's something that I think, you know, not only is going to be profitable, but it's, you know, it's something that I think really helps is needed and it will be helpful. So I thought it was kind of, you know, really the best of a bunch of, bunch of worlds.

You know, we, I know, I knew Alex, I knew he, you know, great person, right. You know, we have similar values. I looked at the deal, it looked like, you know, definitely something that was, was needed.

And you know, it seemed, it's definitely seemed like something that I could, I could feel comfortable putting my money, money in and just kind of watching it, watching it grow hopefully and, and help the community. I will say this, I did kind of take a, you know, take a shot with it.

And I basically told myself, if for my initial one, you know, I'm gonna pretend like I just lost, you know, $50,000 or however much it was, and then I'm really gonna, you know, hope it does well and kind of go from there.

So, yeah, I, I think that in addition to just kind of diversifying my, my income streams, I just wanted to kind of jump into to the syndication world and with someone I trust and with the deal, that looked good.

But yeah, it, you know, we talk about this all the time, is that risk is a muscle.

And you know, you're very rarely going to see someone who was maybe only investing in low cost index funds and all of a sudden they discover Syndications, and they jump right into investing in syndications.

It's usually going to be somebody who at least has some experience with real estate and has exercised that risk muscle a bit like you have, and discovered that, oh, I can buy. I can.

I can use leverage to buy a physical asset that's going to cash flow, and maybe not a lot, but it's going to, you know, at some point, it's going to cash flow and the appreciation is going to take over. And I can do that. And I did it, and nothing bad happened. I didn't.

I didn't fall on my face, you know, and then that sort of, you know, you do it again, go, okay, I did it again. Nothing bad happened. And then you do it again. And then, like we said, eventually. And that's why, you know, I think you're, you know, you're.

I think you're coming at it from a good mindset, which is, listen, this is money that I'm willing to risk, you know, and I doubt you're going to lose the whole money, but that is, you know, that is a risk you take with a syndication. You are taking a bet on another, Another person to execute a business plan that's going to hopefully end up making you money. But obviously, you.

You knew this person beforehand. And I think it's often a better way that people approach this.

Sometimes people kind of find a strategy and they go out and they look for someone who's doing that strategy. When I think oftentimes it's better to find someone who's doing something and has done something successfully.

And then, you know, whatever it is, if it aligns with what your family's goals are, then, yeah, you're.

And you're also betting on the jockey, not the horse. Right? It isn't. You're looking at the deal. The deal, honestly, let's be honest. It's kind of in your wheelhouse.

Like, you understand the dynamics of the silver tsunami that's headed our way and everything that's coming along with that. So, like, I think you can speak to that, and it makes sense. You see the demographic shift, but at the end of the day, like, you're.

You're investing into something with a person that you're. You're betting on the jockey and not the horse.

And in that situation, it's like, you create a partnership with someone that you know like and trust, and you can continue to invest with them over and over. I think that's so much more strategic than being like, well, let's diversify across assets Right.

A lot of people diversify across different asset, different geography and different operators. But over the last few years, we saw people with all their money in multifamily.

So starting with the right person in mind, betting on the jockey instead of the horse, I think is, is brilliant. Do you have, and what. Do you have ambitions of creating diversification as you're looking to do more passive investments in the future?

Have you put thought into that? What does that look like for you?

Yeah, I have.

I still, you know, early in my journey, so there hasn't been anything that I've really, you know, I don't have like a niche yet other than my small midterm rentals.

But I'm kind of in the process right now just kind of looking at the different options and, and seeing like things that I feel one, you know, would be a good option to increase my wealth, but also things that I would be happy to be invested in. Things like the deal that we, I was talking about with the residential assisted living, you know, things like farmland, stuff like that.

Just things that, that I think are beneficial to the public.

I love that.

I think we're catching you early in this journey and it's going to be really interesting to see how it, it changes over the next few years because I kind of feel like you're, you're probably on this midterm rental lily pad, but you're making a jump, right? And you're going to, you're, you've already, you jump to a veteran strategy, by the way.

Like, midterm rentals is not a, the entry level strategy that a lot of people find.

So like I, you know, you can blame yourself for these years of like, just building up the financial acumen before you finally got the courage to like, take a jump. But let's be honest here, like, the first move that you made is a little bit more of an advanced strategy.

And there's a lot of really cool lessons that come along with that. Some of the lessons sometimes are like, wow, I really hate this because of the amount of tenants that I have.

That's one of the experiences that I had. Not from having a few Airbnbs or Even from having 10 or 14 Airbnb, it was from a property management company.

And then it was like, boy, when you multiply the amount of work here, times 75. It's different. Right. But the fundamentals and the lessons are there that really help you take that step forward.

So I think it's going to be very interesting to follow your journey over the next few years. And I think the one constant is going to be changed, which is, which is no surprise, right.

There's very few people that start off with a strategy that stick with it, especially strategy that hasn't been. Midterm rentals have been around for a long time, but I think because of Furnished Finder they're much more mainstream now than they ever have been.

And even though it was a bailout for a lot of people that short term rentals weren't penciling, a lot of people have found refuge there and it's a pretty sweet spot, especially if you're in a market where it makes sense.

And a lot of times some of these tenants like pass it from one to the other or you get a corporate rental and they're just continuing to put people in there one after the other. If you got a GC that's got a big construction job there, so it's a sticky asset class.

If you have a good unit that's renting out well, sometimes that tends to stick with people and your occupants is pretty high. And the end result is it almost feels like a long term rental. You're just getting a 30% premium on your rate. So I love that too.

I think you're heading in the right direction.

It's going to be interesting to, to check back in and I'm glad you're recording this to have something to look back on for posterity for the sake of time. We do have to land this plane. In your experience, you're talking to other people about this.

You're talking to Alex, your friend, your wife, anybody else. And, and as your entry level getting into this, you got three of these properties.

I know you're having conversations at the scrub sink or the hospital or wherever else about this.

When other people ask you about what you're up to, is there any one book or resource that you find yourself recommending to friends or family more than any other?

Yeah.

So I'll say, you know, kind of like the, for the medical professional specifically, which is, you know, kind of in my realm, I usually speak to, I, I will usually recommend, you know, the White Coat investor. It's a good, good entry level book to kind of get your. It's more personal finance based than real estate and kind of get yourself right.

And just in general, I, I really like the book Die with Zero, I think it kind of puts in perspective, you know, it's more about the journey than the destination. So, you know, definitely you should try and set yourself up, you know, with investments and everything, but don't.

Don't look too far ahead at the destination. Try and enjoy the journey as well.

Love that. Could not agree more. All right, Dr. Stephen Nellis, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate your time.

We appreciate your service to our country. Thank you very much for that, everything that you're doing there, and your service to your patients as well.

So appreciate your continued efforts to give back to our community and to our nation.

If any of our listeners want a follow your journey or hear more about you, even if it's just following you on social media or anywhere else, what would be the best way for people to connect and continue to watch what you're up to?

Yeah, so really, I'm just on Facebook for. For social media, but if you. If you want to look, look me up on there and then please, if you have any questions, you can send me an email.

Stephen M.Nellis gmail.com I'd love to connect, and I think a lot of this is about networking. You know, I've kind of got to you guys through my different. Actually my own podcast journey through the different podcasts.

And I think networking is huge. And so if I can help anyone, it's in my position or, or anything else, I would. I would love to.

I love that. Well, thank you, Stephen. I agree with you. The R word that people think we're talking about is real estate. And I disagree. I think it's relationships.

So I appreciate that. Thank you for your time and your efforts and for being with us today. Thank you so much. We look forward to continue to follow your journey.

Thank you, guys.

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