Hewete Haileselassie is a communications specialist who shares a candid look at how community can be important for grief. Taking pride in her Ethiopian heritage, Hewete is clearly a daughter of the diaspora, but just how has that shaped the way she navigates life?

Hi, I'm Dhruti Shah, and this is my podcast Have You Thought About? Thank you for joining us for season two. I'm a writer and I love to find out about what passions people are pursuing. And also what makes them tick. The podcast is for those who are at a reckoning and tired of being told that you can only have this one focus; just one thing that makes you you. And in each edition I'm

We've been friends ever since we joined the BBC as trainees well over a decade ago, and you're one of the most inspiring people that I know, you're also the first person to have introduced me to the delights of Injira and Ethiopian food. So thank you very much for that. Now, you are incredibly proud and rightfully so of your heritage. But can you tell us a little bit more about being a daughter

It's an interesting one, I am very proud of my heritage. And I don't think I would be who I am if I didn't have that cultural heritage that I do have hailing from Ethiopia. But I've been reflecting more over recent years, as we kind of, collectively, we've all been thinking about coming from diverse backgrounds and having sort of different family setups. And I've realised

I've had quite a few bereavements in the last two or three years, and on top of you know what it is to lose someone and the sadness and all of that, for my family. And for my situation that has meant having to kind of then immediately find money to fund at least one if not two, return tickets abroad, post COVID flights really expensive, getting visas or ticket accommodation, helping contribute

So I've been thinking about that in many ways, and it brings richness, but it also brings a high level of responsibility, I think, in some ways.

And so how do you marry that conflict? Because it often means that actually, you're tapping into a sense of belonging that, as you say, you've got that degree of privilege, or it seems there's a perceived privilege, in one sense, but then in the UK, for example, because that's what you and I both are, we also Yeah, don't have privilege. And another sense because of yeah, our

I'm not sure I have married it together. I didn't - I just became aware of it in that sort of, I don't know the certain point in your life, when you also realise, gosh, the friends that I have, have managed to, for example, buy property, either early 30s. There's that moment where you think, oh, maybe they're just better at saving me. And then there's the moment where

And I have different challenges and potentially advantages. And I think it's just a realisation that it's different. I mean, the the reverse of that, or sort of another side to that is one of my closest friends who I went to school with who is English through and through. And she told me when we were both 30. She said, Well, I discovered that she'd never held small baby. She'd never been to a

Well, yeah, because you've seen you know, there is that that degree of commonality in the you know, You're the same age, you're living in the same neighbourhood. You know, that's where you've grown up. And to be perfectly frank, I hadn't thought about it. But you're right. Actually, there are lots of experiences, which it's hard to talk to other people about. Because they don't get

It's just different. A very early memory I have is of my mother taking me to, maybe I must have been five or six, around that age. And a friend of hers had lost her husband. And she said, we're gonna go and visit them, they've been bereaved, and the little girl that has lost her dad. And so I knew I had to go and play with him be very nice, all the rest of it. But I was

And you don't have to have all the brilliant philosophical answers, you just kind of have to show up, maybe help with the washing up or help with needs doing kind of just be there. So in that way, some of those things are really useful kind of life skills, of, you know, when you've been around people through the broadness of, of very immediate grief, it also gives you a perspective of, Okay.

But I'm just going to pick up on that element of grief in the - you're comfortable with the uncomfortable elements of grief. But because your circles, perhaps are much wider, and you have people from varying heritage, backgrounds, experiences, when you come to them, when they're in a grieving mode, perhaps. And they are perhaps from a community that's more awkward with that element of

I don't think I have had to embrace awkwardness, because often, they're quite alone. So that should just welcome anyone showing up. And not being afraid. And I think what's often really hard when you are grieving in a society where people aren't that comfortable to get close to you is then you have to almost reach out and say, Please, do come close. We need the support. I

And do you think that's something that's become, I guess more prevalent or something you've been thinking about more so since the pandemic, because you know, too sad to say that brought that to a lot of people

Definitely something I've thought about since the pandemic because I never thought I would say that I missed funerals, but I did during the pandemic because we lost people during the pandemic. And then I couldn't book a flight and go and see them or go and see with grief with their families. I was left sort of grieving behind a zoom screen, which I found really unsatisfactory.

I mean I've done a lot of stories on what makes a good death. But what makes good grief. If that sounds slightly ridiculous, I might change that. Because you have that phrase Good grief, you put it in

there. But there is a book called Good grief isn't that I think there's a book called Good grief.

It's not that; maybe it's the one we're going to be writing but what does make good grief?

I think it's all very personal. And I think you can't prescribe it for anybody. But I think it's, at least for me, it's being allowed to take that space and sit with the grief and process it. And for me, that's been sort of very coloured by how Ethiopians grieve, which is collectively, which was just a lot of weeping, a lot of crying a lot of spending time together. But

A lot of that time is remembering the person is being very loving towards one another, eating together, sitting together in the evenings, people telling funny stories and jokes and kind of keeping people going, the whole spectrum of life kind of happens around you. And I think the main thing is, in our culture is not to allow people to be alone in their grief, I think people are often afraid

And picking up on that. So in my culture, I come from like a Jain Indian culture came with a bit of Kenyan, we have certain rituals, we have songs like we'll come together to sing is that something that you have within your

No, don't really have songs, I come from an Orthodox and Ethiopian Orthodox tradition. So there are liturgies and rituals and prayers that happen, which are mostly with the clergy, when they come and do that in your house when the body is still in the house. And then on the third day, I could be wrong on the 40th day, and then you mark kind of six months, one year, and

And maybe in some way, it's a sort of cultural wisdom rather than directly from religious doctrine. But within the 40 days to six months, the one year those anniversaries is sort of baked in this requirement as it were to feed the needy or feed the homeless, which I thought was quite a neat way of ensuring that people who need it get fed, because of course, everybody has at least one or two

I think that's absolutely wonderful. Like we've just literally had a mini mini deaf cafe that where do you have these sort of conversations? So I'm glad that we've had this conversation. And now you and I both know what each other wants when you move on.

But yeah, come to my house with food,

and then come and sing at mine. So it's one thing that you've been quite open about as the benefits of therapy, as have I, But let's explore that a bit more in terms of why you such an advocate of therapy and also bearing in mind quite how wide the field is, you know, what would we mean by that, in that makes Hewete, Hewete.

I just think it's always useful to have a space to step out of the day to day and consider what's going on with you on the inside. And I think what a professional therapist, counsellor, whoever that might be brings is that being withdrawn from your life, being professionally trained and able to maintain boundaries and look out for your welfare and stuff. And I just think

And those wonderful lady who used to run that called Jane Engine, who has passed it on someone else now, and she spoke about being aware of what's in your emotional store cupboard. And it's not necessarily about removing things or putting them in or out. But if you imagine a cupboard that is neatly, neatly organised, you kind of know what's in there, your tins are there your packets are

I quite like that analogy with the cupboard, because also it just made me feel it. Sometimes you can think that everything's in its place, but then say, for example, there's an earthquake or something that's out of your control, doors might be closed. But that shuddering that shake, will have shifted things.

Everything comes out. Exactly. That's why well, you often find people may kind of break down at a point when you're not quite sure why. But it's often the accumulation of things that have gone on top and on top of something else, and then it's just too much for them. So yeah, I'm a great believer in kind of working on yourself doing therapy, doing meditation, do whatever it is that people need to

A new term that I've come across, which is that process of restorative practice. And I've come across that from having been in places where people of colour tend to congregate, because we're feeling we don't know where else to go. And it feels like that idea of restorative practices. It's not new, it's something that's coming through generations. It's something that we've lost and

Restorative practice. Do you mean by that things like meditation and yoga and to violence? Or what do you mean

Doing different things. So I ended up going on a course it was a Brilliant Routes course. And it was run by a woman called Gaylene Gould who I hadn't come across before raising figurehead. And she brought people from different ethnic minorities together. And we've just tried different things, whether it was dancing, whether it was sewing, I'm the worst, so ever probably end

Okay. Yeah. How interesting.

Cooking, for example, you know, going back to, okay, so when I say that to you now, is that something that's feeling familiar?

It's definitely a new term. I think there probably are restorative practices for all of us. But again, I think that it's about getting to know yourself and slowing down thinking, Gosh, when I do this, I'm calmer and more myself. Or when I do this, I'm not. I remember years ago, saying to his counsellor, I had you know, I know when things are going a bit haywire in my routine.

So if mindfulness is intimidating for you find what isn't intimidating, and that might be sewing or knitting or drawing or, or doing things with your hands. I've recently taken up taking, I used take playdough into all my Zoom meetings because I get really bored or sitting out I did doodling colouring, or I'd have playdough because I concentrate better when I'm doing it with my hands. So we're

I was gonna say, when did you Play Doh is your thing.

It might have been a counsellor that I spoke to some time ago, it might have been, she suggested colouring, I thought Play Doh. I can't remember it might have been me, it might have been her. But in my couple of years ago, during COVID, I thought I was in a lot of really long zoom meetings that I didn't necessarily feel I needed to be and so I felt like I'm not here to

I'd heard of like Lego play before like it is a thing but I just never heard of playdough and and yes, it just makes so much sense. It's something else that I also wanted to sort of ask you on this - we talk about therapy. We've talked about grief and death and embracing this, when I think of you like resilience comes up quite a lot like you have gone through quite a lot. You do give

I'm not sure what parts of me I tap into, but I certainly am quite strategic about okay, now I need more sleep, I need more water, I need more movement. And I need more time in nature. I'm really lucky, I live on a garden square, which is gated, so I can just go in and walk in, there's not a lot of people there. Sometimes, especially in the evenings, I spend time around tall

with me, who have been really inspiring. So those are some of the things and then sharing with people who love you, your friends and the family members that you're closest to. Those are the things but also, I think I'm just someone who doesn't have it in my mind to give up. That time, they can be a bit harsh on myself and others who want to give up because I'm just like, that's not even an option.

How do you make sure you're allocating the time in order to invest in these tools that help you with the resilience?

I think the key thing is that you're not going to do all of those things every day. You're not going to get to do all of those things every day. I think it's just picking what you can do. Like how do I get through this morning? What do I need this morning to get through it in a reasonable way? What do I need? during my lunch break? Or in the middle of the day? What do I

the week. Little things and Play Doh.

So it's Hewete that's been basically making sure that Play Doh stays in business but...

You could - have to find some other providers, of multiple plays or whatever they are.

The wonderful Hewete Haileselassie, communications specialist, daughter of the diaspora and grief conversationalist. Do you have an interdisciplinary life because I would love to hear from me. And maybe we can chat on this podcast that goes in my newsletter, which is called Have You Thought About? It can be found via www.dhrutishah.com. Please join me next time for a fun