Welcome to this week’s episode of Thyroid Strong where I sit down with Angela Brown, a fellow movement specialist and personal trainer, as she debunks what we’ve been taught since our first diagnosis of Hashimoto’s. Instead of living with a lack of education provided by your doctor, take this episode and start changing your life and body. 

Key Takeaways

Our one goal as Hashi women is to lose weight and boost our energy levels, but most likely we aren’t doing the right workout routines to fit our bodies. Angela Brown is nailing down all the possibilities of what we’ve been told by our doctors and what we should be doing to get our bodies back!

About Angela Brown

Angela Brown is a fellow movement specialist, a licensed physical therapist as well as a personal trainer. She's also a certified Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioner. Her skills are showcased in helping women with thyroid issues recover from their hyperthyroidism with advanced testing and their workout routines. In her program, Sexy Thyroid Solution, she helps women to no longer suffer and to find the root cause of their health issues. Like me, she looks at the Hashi population through a movement tissue quality lens.

What They Tell You Versus What You Should Do

Medical professionals will tell you to start losing weight with cardio, so most Hashi ladies are running or cycling for hours 6-7 days a week. Instead, Angela Brown is adamant to rip cardio out of your life and switch your focus to resistance training. Your goals to lose weight and get your energy back are achievable with heavy weight, smaller reps, and longer rest periods coinciding with appropriate protein intake.

Designing your Workout Routine with Angela Brown

Angela Brown walks us through what our Hashi workout should look like before, during, and after, depending on our individual needs. If you are looking to boost your energy levels, what time of day are you working out? Are you doing any cardio? How heavy are you lifting and how much are you lifting it? If you are experiencing aches and pains, what does your form look like? If you are afraid of the bulk, how much protein are you consuming? Angela Brown has all of the answers in this comprehensive episode.

In This Episode 

The norm of what doctors tell you when not properly diagnosed with Hashimoto’s [5:56]

The right exercises for people with Hashimoto’s [8:11]

Weight training versus cardio with Hashimoto’s [10:08]

The ideal weight training program [11:03]

Where to start with weight training, form and weight [13:54]

Some mistakes seen in resistance training with Hashimoto’s [16:09]

Adjusting workout program to your individual energy levels [19:26]

Workout recovery with people with Hashimoto’s [22:04]

Proper protein recommendation for Hashi women [25:24]

Ligament laxity with Hasimoto’s and genetics [30:07]

Fear of the bulk with weight training [36:37]

Hypertrophy and rep scheme [42:09]

Specific cues to be aware of for proper form and time management in your workout [45:47]

The physical sensation you should be feeling through your reps [49:35]

Quotes

“I started realizing my thyroid and my body is so much happier with resistance training.” [9:42]

“It's almost a mindset thing to get them to feel like they're doing something every day if we split up working different body parts.” [20:12]

“The majority of the women that came to me had symptoms of ligament laxity, and that's why a lot of them had injuries.” [30:37]

“Do three to five different moves; three to five reps, three to five sets, three to five days a week.”[40:10]

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Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or on your favorite podcast platform. 

Topics Covered:

• Cardio and why it doesn’t work with people who have Hashimoto’s
• What weight training can do with people for Hasimoto’s
• Incorporating functional movement patterns into your workouts
• Go heavy with longer rest periods during your workout
• What muscle engagement means to the body
• Listening to your body post workout and tactics to settle the stress response
• The importance of form during your workout

Resources Mentioned:

• Pure paleo protein shake by Designs for Health

Guest Info: Angela Brown

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If you’re looking to lose weight with Hashimoto’s: https://www.dremilykiberd.com/weight/

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If you want to learn more about 3 things NOT TO DO in your workout if you have Hashimoto’s and WHAT TO DO instead: https://www.dremilykiberd.com/strong

If you want to dive right into Thyroid Strong online workout program: https://www.dremilykiberd.com/thyroid-strong/

And I think the fear is, if you do weight training, it's too taxing on the adrenals. And I'm like, no, it's actually not, it's actually good for the adrenals. Because think about it when you're doing cardio, you're never resting your adrenals you're never resting your heart rate. You're doing this constant, let's just hit this cardio, your hertz never going down, your heart rate is never going down. Just constantly hitting it. your adrenals are getting attacks when you're doing weight training. You stop, take your rest period, heart rate comes down, take a little breather. That's actually good for your adrenals and that's what's really tough is because women don't a lot of women don't realize that because again, they're just told you to lose weight, exercise more and when you think of exercise, what do most people think of? Am I gonna do cardio

What's up lovely ladies, Dr. Emily Kiberd. Here with thyroid strong podcast. I am a chiropractor, a mama to Elvis and Brooklyn and I have Hashimotos what is currently in remission. On this podcast, I share simple, actionable steps with a little bit of tough love on how to lose that stubborn weight, get your energy, getting your life back and finally learn how to work out without burning out living with Hashimotos. Today I sit down with Angela Brown. She is a fellow movement specialist, a licensed physical therapist as well as a personal trainer. She's also a certified Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioner. So she has all these amazing different skills and she helps women with thyroid issues recover from their hypothyroidism with advanced testing, as well as in their workouts. She has a program called sexy thyroid solution to help women no longer suffer like she did and to get to the root cause of their health issues. And I know you're thinking em, but you do something really similar. You're a chiropractor, movement specialist strength focused lady for the Hashimotos crew. And I love sitting down with someone of a light background. Because sometimes you sit down with a functional medicine Doc's and they are amazing in what they share. In terms of diet, lifestyle changes, environmental factors to change, but it's so cool to sit down with someone who also has a movement strength background, because as you'll hear in the episode, we both see very similar tendencies habits, consistencies with our Hashi ladies, one of them that I've talked about for a long time that I really haven't heard anyone else talk about is this element of ligament laxity, tissue hypermobility, and when I talk about it with my functional medicine, Doc friends are like, em, what are you talking about? But that's because they don't look at the Hashi population through a movement, tissue quality lens, they're typically looking at them from all those internal processes. So, so fun to sit down with Angela. She's a holistic health coach from St. Louis and we just deep dive into why to let go of the cardio. Don't be a cardio queen, and why to start picking up the weights. Alright, if you enjoyed this episode, go to iTunes, subscribe. Leave an honest review. Give it five stars if you loved it. And yeah, let me know in the comments what you thought of this episode. Angela Brown, welcome to thyroid strong podcast excited to have a fellow movement and strength rehab specialist who also works with the autoimmune population. Yeah,

thank you for having me.

So can you just share a little bit of like how you started working with women with hypothyroidism and as well as Hashimotos.

So I actually got diagnosed with hypothyroidism when I was 22. And at that time, I was practicing as a physical therapist got certified as a personal trainer not long after that, and was really struggling with my own health, super frustrated. And at that time, every doctor buddy wants you was like exercise more, eat less. And, of course, that's what I did, because that's what I was told by the doctors and I quickly started realizing that there was a little bit more to it than that. And when I started doing more investigation, I started realizing like there's a pretty big missing area. When it comes to like the thyroid world. There was a pretty big missing area with outside of take your thyroid medication, eat less exercise more with pretty much the norm. And it was getting super frustrating for me and especially because I'm working in the medical industry and I was just getting brushed off So I started studying functional medicine when I got certified in Functional Diagnostic Nutrition eight years ago, that's when I really started realizing like, there really isn't this big missing link here. And so once I got that certification, I started utilizing a bunch of functional lab testing, things like that. That's when I actually realized I might, I think I might have Hashimotos, I think there's an autoimmune connection here. And again, doctors were like, I don't even know what that is. I mean, I, I at least had three doctors that never even heard of Hashimotos wild, and I had to explain it to them what it was wild wild, which was very eye opening for me. And that's exactly why I was like, Alright, I think I'm actually I still have my physical therapy license, I still have my personal training certification. And I still utilize that, inside my practice when I start working with women. Because what I noticed was, first of all, so many women have hypothyroidism, they also have this autoimmune connection, and they typically are not tested for it. And then finally, what I also noticed was, they don't know how to move, they don't know how to exercise, they don't know what's good, what's not good. Because again, the norm is take your thyroid pill, stop eating, or eat less, and exercise more. That's just the normal typical thing that they're told. I mean, I was told this so often that I thought, maybe it's just me. But then I started realizing I'm like, now there's a lot of women that are told the same thing. And so that's kind of what got me into this was I'm like, Okay, there's like so much in this area here to help women. And when I started utilizing all this on myself, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, like, this is a pretty big game changer when I started doing the right exercises for my body. And you know, where my thyroid was at and where my health was at, instead of, I'm going to cut my calories and do more cardio today. In fact, I don't even do cardio anymore. People are shocked when I tell them that I don't do cardio, they're like, how do you not do cardio? Like, you seem like you're like sit and I'm like I don't I don't do any cardio. I do all weight training. And they're shocked. And I'm like, people with Hashimotos. And hyperthyroidism should not be doing cardio. And they just were like, I don't understand. That's what I'm always told them like, well, that's normal. That's what I was told. So that's pretty much how it got me into this and why I'm so adamant about it, too.

Yeah. And being a physical therapist, and a personal trainer is a very physically demanding job. And it's also a very emotionally very job.

Yeah, it is. And I see every one from you know, especially when I was practicing just in physical therapy clinics. From I worked in outpatient. I was mostly in sports, but I would see a lot of emotions with it, too. Yeah. Because people were like, recovering from an injury. And you know, am I ever gonna be able to work out again? Or am I ever gonna be able to do my job again, and things like that. And then upon that, I also started noticing, like, there's a lot of other things missing here. Like, they're not working on inflammation, they're not working on what they're eating, they're not working on any of those things that could actually help improve their healing process. Yeah. And so that was that's actually what really drew me to, I'm going to start looking at other avenues than just doing physical therapy with people because I'm like, there's, there's really some missing stuff here. Yeah.

So what is the right exercise for women in the past she motos.

So, I get asked this all the time. And just first of all, from my own personal experience, but even in working with so many women, is, cardio is like, I always say this, it is like the devil for so many women, when they have Hashimotos. And again, most people with Hashimotos, especially women, what are they're trying to do, they're usually trying to lose weight, they're usually trying to get fit, and or they don't have the energy, and they're like, Oh, I'm gonna do more cardio, maybe it'll actually give me more energy. And what I have found is that cardio, it just can make things so much worse. Especially when you have autoimmune, your body is not designed to do this long duration cardio and kill yourself, your adrenals are not going to be happy, your thyroid is going to end up paying the price for it. So the exercise that I always go for is weight training, that's going to be the thing that I always recommend, essentially, that's what I had to do. And it was a really tough transition for me because when I first was doing it, especially a fraction as a PT I was doing. Sometimes I wouldn't even do two days, again, wasn't smart. But I would do two a days I would do like weight training for like an hour and a half in the morning. And then I would go do steady state cardio for like another hour and a half in the afternoon. And shockingly, I was putting weight on and I'm like something's not right here. I'm putting weight on and I'm actually doing a ton of workout kind of cardio ton of exercise. And what I found was it first of all, it doesn't need to be that long. And weight training was definitely the thing that kind of got me over that hump. And I started realizing like my thyroid and my body is so much happier with resistance training with weight training. That's typically what I'm always going to recommend. That's what I recommend to all my clients. Some of them are doing that. They're doing it for too long or doing it you know, twice a day or something like that, and I have to put them back but some of them are like no, I'm just doing running. And unlike, we got cut that out. And it's a hard transition. Because I mean, I can totally understand it. I was in that position too. But I get a lot of runners, I get a lot of people who are, you know, they do bicycling and all that stuff, and they're doing this really long hours on end of cardio a day. And there's often and they just keep getting worse and worse and worse. And I'm like, No, you actually need the weight training. Secondly, most people don't actually motors, they lose muscle mass, they lose muscle tone, and all that I'm like, you have to have strong muscles, you have to create that your body is going to need that down the line. Especially I'm like, so if you are doing just straight cardio, your body's not going to like that down the road either. Yeah.

So how do you design, right? Because weight training can come in a lot of different forms. Right, in terms of like reps and set scheme and how long you take a rest break? And what weight do you pick up? And, and we're typically the goal for the woman Hashimotos is have more energy and lose weight, right? Usually every other every other. Yeah, symptom is kind of like the wayside behind those two. So what does a program look like when you design a weight training program? In terms of like, maybe like, RapidSet schema? What kind of moves they're doing that kind of stuff? Yeah. So my

goal always I want to get functional lives in that a lot of times again, they're like, What do you mean by functional? Luke's I don't even know what that is? Yeah, I'm like, Okay, well, do you need to get off the toilet? Do you need to stand up from a chair? Do you need to bend over to pick something off the floor? Do you need to pick up your kid, I'm like, those are functional loops. So I'm going to have them do the functional movement patterns, squat, deadlifts, things like that. I want movements that like you need to do every single day. So that's one thing that I'm always going to design around. Secondly, and this is another really tricky area, because, again, women are so scared of getting bulky. And when I tell them how much weight I lift, they're like you do what I'm like, they're like, how are you not massive. And I'm like, because it depends on how it's designed. But I'm like, the heavier, the better. I'm like, you don't need to do a workout for two hours on end with weight training, I'm like, I would rather it be 30 minutes long, go heavy. I'm like take vigorous period, I'm like, when you do it, you're going to hit those rep, get your reps in, play, make sure we are cutting down on the as far as like the the length, the total length of the workout, I'm like, you don't need to do it for hours on end, I would rather rather it be shorter, get the make sure that make the rest periods, you know a little bit longer in between sets, but go heavier, so that you can get the intensity in, and then cut down on that. As far as like how long that total workout is. And it's shocking. A lot of women are like, I can't do that. Because that's not what they're told the norm is, Oh Are there they're scared, they're gonna get bulky, so they're not doing heavier. They're not doing functional moves, they're doing like, I'm gonna do a bicep curl. I'm gonna do a tricep exercise. But God forbid if they do like squats or deadlifts or you know, kettlebells, things like that. A lot of them are like, I don't even know what a kettlebell is. And I'm, like, kettlebells are amazing. That's probably the one of my favorite ones that I use all the time in my own workouts. And it's really tough because that the mindset is a big piece of it. And I'm like, you have to get past that you have to get past that. You're gonna get such better benefits. When you do workouts that way versus let's go at it, or a lot of them were like, I'll do 30 minutes weight training, and then I'm gonna do cardio with it. I'm wakeful. Let's not do that either. Let's just get that weight training in again. I get it. It was a tough transition for me, because I was the cardio queen. Yeah, doing my workouts for way long and doing super lightweight and a bazillion reps. And I'm like, No, yeah, you need to do that. I'm like, that's not how you do it. I'm like, we're gonna go lower reps, heavier weight, bigger rest periods. I'm like, that's the way that I feel like women, especially in Hashimotos. You don't have the energy to do workouts on end for like, hours on like, you can't do that to your body.

Yeah, what Wait, so like, let's say you were taking someone through like a deadlift, or maybe a squat. And those are very two different moves and two different maybe weight requirements. But is there a starting weight that you would start a woman at with a deadlift?

Told me and that definitely depends on the person. Some of that is too because I'm super picky with my PT Bracher. On on, like, when I see your form, and yeah, of course, so a lot of times, and I do zoom calls with all my clients. So sometimes I'm like, Alright, I want to see a video like both of your mu like, can you even do the pattern without any weight, and if they can't even get the pattern down without the weight, I'm like, then we're gonna go super low. But like, I have some clients that go anywhere from a 50 pound deadlift, or up to a 200 pound deadlift really depends on where they're at. And it depends on you know, if there's injuries involve past injuries, things like that, but they're shocked because a lot of them are like, you're going to how many 250 pounds, some of them don't. They really struggle with just 50 pounds and I'm like yeah, because You're picking something off the floor, or like your toddler, some toddlers are heavy on like, Yeah, gotta be able to do that. So I'm like, Yeah, you're gonna go a little bit heavier. I'd rather you have lower reps, then let's go super light, and you're just going to rip it out. I'm like, it doesn't, you're not gonna have the energy for that. Yeah. So it definitely depends on the person. But yeah, usually, usually, it's going to be at least 50. Again, depends on the person, but already in mind, I typically am having them even starting at like, 8090. Yeah. What are you? Yeah, just trust me. I'm like, you'll be able to do it. I'm like, you'll be able to do it. But you have to like, but I would I do like to see their form. That sort of thing. I'm like, you can't even do it without the weight. I'm like, Okay, well, we're definitely gonna have to go lighter, or what they have access to because sometimes they're like, I'm at home, and I only have 70 pounds backs or something. And I'm like, Okay, that's a different ballgame. Yeah. But if they're going to the gym, like you're gonna have access to it. So I'm like, we're gonna go up.

Yeah, I would say the same, like 50 pounds is to 12 kilo. kettlebells is kind of the bare minimum. Sometimes I see women picking up 112 kilo. I'm like, no, no, no, no, we're gonna

do two. Yeah. And that's so so white.

Yeah, because you need the resistance to like, get the muscles to fire and get your body to tell you where you are, where you are in time and space. What are some common mistakes that you might see women make when they're first lifting weights with Hashimotos. So one of

the the male figure one I see is, it's the amount of resistance their own way, way light. 13 super lightweight. And just, in fact, I just started working with a client designing her workout program. And she's like, this is kind of what I do. And I'm like, what send me the pictures because she does everything at home, some of your pictures, I mean, what you have, and the highest dumbbell she had was eight pounds, the highest kettlebell was kettlebell was 10 pounds, I'm like, Okay, so first and foremost, you're gonna go buy new equipment. That's one of the big mistakes I see is way like, I'm like in there doing a ton of reps. And I'm like, You're not going to get enough engagement of the muscle. And like, even with 50 reps, you might feel the burn, but still not loading the muscle enough. I'm like, that's one of the biggest mistakes I see. The other thing is they're flying through it. Instead of taking those rest periods. I'm like, when you do it properly, and you're doing that good amount of resistance, you're gonna need the rest. I'm like, so if you can go back to back to back to back, like exercise after exercise and no rest period. I'm like, you're going to light. And they're again, they're shocked with that. They're like, are you serious? And I'm like, Yeah, you actually, if you're, if you can go exercise one after the other, and you're flying through it quickly, I'm like, then the right weights are high enough. I'm like, so you need to take those rest periods, you need to recoup and then go back to that heavy, whatever is kettlebell or even if they're doing like a chest thing, or back thing or whatever, on my feet, that's one of the biggest mistakes that I'll see. Another one that I see a lot is, I kind of mentioned this a little bit ago is they're going to when they do the cardio stuff with the weight tree, sometimes they'll even do like, I actually literally just saw this at the gym this morning. So hopefully, I'm not calling someone out. But she did squat was going to squat pattern. I think she was doing a kettlebell initially. And then she went to a bar and went and did hamstring curls. And then went and jumped on the elliptical and was flying on the elliptical like 100 miles an hour, going as fast as she can and then went through cut going through that circuit. And that was one thing that I see that does not work for a lot of people, especially with Hashimoto is because you're, you need the muscle engagement. Now you're gonna go hop on cardio, your body's gonna get thoroughly confused. like, Wait, what are you doing here, and the adrenals probably aren't gonna like that either. So I typically do not like that combination. And again, not sometimes for people because I'm like, No, I like to get my heart rate up. And like, trust me, if you're doing heavy enough, your heart rates gonna get up. Your heart rates not good enough, again, you're not going heavy enough. So I'm like, don't do that cardio mixed in with it. I'm like, especially with Hashimotos I'm like, your body can't do that. It's not designed to do that.

I'm sure you've experienced this. But sometimes women when they first start weight training, they feel exhausted after or like they need to take a nap. For they just feel totally wiped out by their training, even if they're not doing cardio, if they're just starting to pick up weights, what has been your experience with that person. So a

couple things that I'll do with that one, I may have to just say look, your workout florally going to be 10 minutes, we're going to cut your workout time down, we're going to literally cut it down because the last thing I want to do is first of all, make them feel defeated. Like right now I can't even work out. So I'll cut their workout time down. I actually will still have them do the heavier weights and maybe I'm depending on the person I might cut the weight down even to but I'm probably going to cut the workout count time down with them so that we can kind of start tweaking it and make sure that they are getting recovery time. Secondly, the other thing I do is out I'll end up spacing the workout times out. So if they say do a workout today, thoroughly exhausted tomorrow, I'm like you're skipping tomorrow, then give your body some rest, let it rest, but then you're gonna go back to it the next day. So I'll space that out. The other thing that I have had that works quite well for a few of my clients is, because it's more of a, it's almost a mindset thing is it to get them to feel like they're doing something every day is then we might just split up body parts. So I might be like, Okay, we're gonna do a deadlift pattern or squat pattern, whatever, on one day, then you're going to skip Tuesday, Wednesday, we're going to do more chest back sings, those kind of movement patterns, things like that, I may split that up kind of throughout the week, doesn't work for everyone, I do have a few that it's worked for. But usually what I'm going to do is I'm gonna like, Okay, we're going to cut the workout time down, we're going to literally cut this workout time down so that you can feel like you're not completely defeated. Because I, my fear with that is if they continue to just be like, Oh, I'm gonna suck it up and push through it is that they're going to get to a point where the body is just completely tapped out. So I obviously don't want that for them. So again, it kind of depends on the person, but usually I'm cutting out the workout time, I might space the workouts a little bit more. And then we start slowly adding into time, we start slowly adding in a more another workout for the week. And then of course, I feel it out to you. Because if you know they got stress going on in their life, they got a stress response or something going on like food, that's probably not helping things, either. So we'll really focus a little bit more on the stress management response, and how to work them kind of through that work oxen. But yeah, I knew see that a lot, especially with harshly motors are exhausted already, usually. And so sometimes the workouts can drain them. So I'm really picky about that with them and kind of careful with how they're working out and listening to their body. That's the other thing that I want them to pay attention to that too. Because sometimes it's really easy to get wrapped up in Oh, I'm working out I'm working out and they don't pay attention to the symptoms and don't pay attention to how exhausted they are the next day or even later that day. So I'm really adamant about having them pay attention to how they feel post workout. Few hours later that evening, next day sort of thing.

Yeah. Do you make any specific recommendations, or under recovery under you mentioned earlier, and it kind of ties in a little bit to like stress management, but specifically for the Hashi population, any specific recommendations around recovery.

So what I talked to them about recovery, again, you know, anytime you work on, it's a stress response from the body. And that's one thing that people don't necessarily understand a lot of times is, you know, when you work out, you're gonna release cortisol, your body, it is a stress response. It's a good stress response, but it's still a stress response. So we want to kind of mitigate that as well. So that that doesn't, you know, adequate, the cortisol response and things like that. And then of course, obviously, we want to give the body time to recoup. So again, that's where it comes into play, listen to your body, I need you to I need clients to pay attention to how they feel post workout, how they feel, you know, later that day, even the next morning, and that stress response is going to be a huge one here. So I may have them do breath work, I may have them do things to settle that like nervous system response. I may have them do some meditation, I might have them just go for a walk. I'm not a huge proponent. And this is this is another tough thing. A lot of them. I'm just going to stretch and I'm like, yo Hashimotos look, be careful. Lot of them will just start creaking and stretching and unlife you're gonna have a little bit of ligament laxity with Hashimoto. So I'm always a little hesitant with that unless it's of course, to kind of calm the nervous system and you're it's more of a I'm laying here meditating with it sort of thing. Maybe depends on the person, but I'm gonna do any recommend anything they can do to settle that nervous system response. So it probably will look like meditation for breathwork. Sometimes I'll even have people do like the tick Well, Mosca calm that like vagal nerve response, which again, they're like, What are you talking about? Like gargling? Yeah, humming, singing, things like that. Just it's again, it just helps settle that nervous response. I may even have them change the timing of their workout, because I do get a lot of people that they're like, Oh, I workout at seven o'clock at night. And I'm like, a lot of people can't do that. Because again, Rizal is going to be when you work out and cortisol supposed to be low at night. And so that's another thing that can be very tricky with people as they're like, Oh, I only work out in the evenings. And I'm like, we're probably going to have to change that. Especially if they're not feeling that recovery, then I'm like, Yeah, we're probably gonna have to change that up a little bit. And I want them to pay attention to sleep too. Because at the sleeps off with it, that's another thing we have to factor in. Okay, well, now, now we got to work on your sleep as well, because that can be connected to if the workouts been too crazy. Sometimes it can actually make them stay awake at night. But yeah, everyone's a little bit different. I have some that. They're like, I do great. If I do some breathwork post workout. It kind of calms my nervous system. It may be you know, if I just go for a walk to get out in nature, it calms the nervous system, things like that. And then of course, I'm really adamant about nutrition as well because I'm like, don't go Workout, and then you reward yourself with some junk food. Like you still have to get your good nutrition. And I'm like, and a lot of them are not getting enough protein. And that's the other thing I see. majority of them are not getting enough protein in. And I'm like, we need to support those muscles. And that's another thing that a lot of women are scared of. It's like, no, that's like men need all this protein are bodybuilders. And I'm like, No, actually you do. You need to actually motors I'm like, so make sure you're getting that good nutrition. And too.

So what's your typical protein recommendation for a woman?

Well, first of all, one of the clients that I work with, I'm usually doing some functional lab testing with them. Yeah, one of the big tests that I do is mineral analysis, hair tissue, mineral analysis, and usually I ended up seeing a pretty big mineral depletion. And they're usually in we call it a slow oxidizer when it's like slow metabolism state. And they need protein. And majority of my clients, when I start working with them, they're, I'm lucky. If they're getting in like 80 grams of protein a day. I mean, they probably aren't even getting that. And usually I'm like, okay, whatever your body weight is, we're going to get that grams of protein a day, again, depends on the person, if someone is really, really overweight, I'm going to be very careful with that, especially if they haven't been eating that much protein, we kind of slowly increase it. But I'm like, No, you have to get in. I usually, if I'm kind of making a blank statement, I'm like, at least 30 grams each meal, I want to see protein intake, so many more than that, I personally actually need more than that. First of all, if I have enough protein, it keeps me fuller. But I do a lot of weight training. And I'm doing pretty heavy. So I actually need more protein than I personally am getting about 150 grams a day. But again, I kind of worked my way up with that. But the other factor is a lot of women when I'm starting to work with them, too. They're like, oh, I'll just do a protein shake post workout. And it's usually a junk one. Again, very picky about I'm like, I'm okay with some protein shakes. Depends on what it is. But I'm like I would rather I want you to get like actual food in because a lot of people will end up doing those protein shakes. And it'll be kind of a ritual for them every single time. And sometimes they'll end up putting junk in it, or it's not a good source. But I'm like, if it's a good clean source, depending on what it is, I can get on board with it. But I'm like, you know, you still need like your car rims. I like especially post workout on like, don't just take only protein. And I'm like, you still need your good healthy carbs with it. But yeah, I It's a tough one because I need I know even for me, like years ago, I was definitely not getting enough protein in and again, a lot of women are scared of that. Or they're like, I can't chew that amount of meat in a day that like grosses me out or fish or whatever. And I'm like, Okay, well, then we are going to add some protein. And that's from a powder form. But I still want you to get your protein and taken from food. So it depends on the person. And there could be other factors going on. We're like, Yeah, we can't get their protein intake up that high. But yeah, most of them I have to increase it.

Do you have a favorite brand and source for the protein shake.

So my one of my personal favorites is pure paleo, actually, they call it paleo. I wish they didn't call paleo because it's not necessarily. It's not really high fat, it doesn't have like a ton of fat in it. But it's a good clean source that comes from like bone broth face to face, like bone broth, protein powder. That's usually one of my favorites. And one of the reasons why it's why a company called designs for health, which is a supplement company that's tested things. I mean, at nauseam, they've done a ton of testing, it's a really, really good clean source. Ifat actually, the one that I use myself, doesn't have a bunch of junk added to it, things like that. That's typically the one that I recommend. There are some other ones out there. I personally haven't tried a ton of them. I know like Ancient Nutrition has some bone broth, protein powder, they have collagen, I've had a couple of clients use it. You just have to be careful with like the flavorings, sometimes they add those natural flavors. And those can cause meat can be triggers for people with clashing motors, sometimes things like that, but fear paleo is probably going to, it's probably always going to be my go to one by designs for health, because I've just, they've done so much testing around it. It's super clean. I really haven't had any issues with it.

So let's go because you mentioned quickly ligament laxity. And so I've noticed that I've noticed this in Hashimotos women as well. And it's interesting because not a lot of people look at the Hashi population from a movement perspective, right? They're typically looking at them from what is your lab work? What is your symptoms from like a functional medicine perspective? Right, right. And I've noticed this as well. And I've actually brought it up to some functional medicine friends, and they're like, you know, there's no research on it. I've actually looked like scoured PubMed and so I talked about it as like a clinical fight there. It's like this element of tissue laxity, hypermobility, lack of joint integrity. It sounds like you have found this as well in your Hashi ladies.

Yeah. I totally have an interesting that you say that because I have people say, do your research on this. And I'm like, there really isn't a lot of research. It's more of a clinical thing. I can tell you when I worked In a physical therapy practice, and again, I was mostly working in an outpatient clinic, lot of sports injuries, things like that. The majority of the women that came to me a lot of them, because I did a pretty extensive health history questionnaire and stuff, a lot of them had symptoms, I can't tell you if they had Hashimotos, but a lot of them had symptoms of what you would consider a harsh use person, and a lot of them had ligament laxity, I would see the law and that's why a lot of them had injuries. Ironically, the one of the last clinics that I worked at had a, I don't even remember the name of the place, but it was basically a stretching class, that's all it did was stretched our stretch, and I couldn't see some of the ways that they were doing the stretching. And it was crazy what some of these women were doing, they would end up in our clinic, typically within a month, they would end up on our clinic, because they had so many injuries from overstretching and things like that. And I definitely started seeing some connections there with that. But I will say like now even a lot of the women that I work with, that are harsh, these people even like I can see them doing their moves and stuff, because I'll watch them on Zoom calls and be like, you know, show me that show me that. And I'm like, Whoa, there is so much ligament laxity. You can just see it. I'm like, That's why exactly why we're doing weight training. And I'm not going to have you like kill yourself as stretching right now. Because you'll see it so much. And it just it just adds fuel to the fire. It's not going to help anything.

Yeah. What do you think that ligament laxity is attributed to I don't have a definitive answer. I don't know if it's just like, oh, there's genetically snips of ligament laxity not necessarily like an earlier danlos site. But yeah, I'm yeah, here is what I think it's attributed to the genetic

yeah, I've always wondered that to the genetic. I'm thinking genetics is a huge factor for sure. I'm really hoping there's going to be more research out on this. But I feel like there's a genetic factor for sure. When it comes to that. It there are some people who are predisposed to it regardless of Hashimotos. I also think that, you know, there is an auto immune response, the body can do some really funky things. When we have an auto immune response, whether it's like from celiac, or you know, rheumatoid arthritis, or whatever it may be, anytime there's an autoimmune response, the body can do some really funky things. And so I do think that there probably is some connection there, I definitely suspect that there's some genetic connection somehow. And that can predispose people to having like a neck flick ligament laxity, as well as even Hashimotos. I feel like there's probably going to be more research coming out on this as well, which I hope there is because I think there I think there's definitely some connection there. There just isn't enough out there on it. But I feel like there's definitely some connections. Yeah,

I think that's why it's so important to like, keep spreading the message of resistance training, strength training, because no amount of stretching, no amount of low impact exercise, or even just even Pilates and yoga is going to stabilize the joints. Right? Like no amount of Chaturanga in yoga is gonna stabilize to joints. Right? And so gonna stabilize. Yeah, wait. So shifting the narrative away? Because I think it's a common recommendation, even amongst functional medicine doctors to give those more low impact exercise recommendations, because they don't want to talk to the adrenal glands. But I think it's a it's I don't think it's a great recommendation. So

there's, like, walking, I'm like, go for a walk, that's fine. You're calming the nervous system. I'm like, I don't care about that. As long as you're not like walking 100 mile an hour, and you're doing like speed walking for like hours on end. But yeah, I think that is, it's tough, because that is the common recommendation is just go, we need you to look well, first of all, typically, the focus from the doctor is Oh, you're overweight, and you're partially motos, you need to lose weight, do what you can, yeah, get some cardio when that's definitely going to be the recommendation. And again, they're not really trained on let's talk about nutrition, let's talk about exercise and things like that. That's not their training. That's not their background. So it's really tough, because you get that into your mind like this is how you're going to do it, which makes it really difficult but exactly what you said no one thought of different yoga poses and your Pilates and all that no amount of that's going to stabilize the joint and that there was research on life, weight resistance, training and weight training. Building the muscles around the joint is so so important. And with Hashimotos you do lose muscle mass. I can vouch for that. I know when I got diagnosed, I mean, I was killing myself with workout. I was practicing as a PT, and a personal trainer at the time. And I'm like, What is wrong with my body? I am literally losing muscle mass here. I don't know how I'm losing muscle mass when I'm doing all this workout. But again, I wasn't doing the right kind of training. I was doing a ton of cardio. I was even doing a lot of stretching as well. And I did stretching to a point to help, you know, loosen up muscles. But I wasn't doing enough weight training. I wasn't doing enough like that resistance, that high intensity resistance. And I think the fear is if you do weight training, it's too taxing on the adrenals and I'm like No, it's actually not, it's actually good for the adrenals. Because think about it, when you're doing cardio, you're never resting your adrenals, you're never resting your heart rate, you're doing this constant, let's just hit this cardio, your heart's never going down, your heart rate is never going down, just constantly hitting it. So your adrenals are getting attacks, when you're doing weight training, you stop, take your rest period, heart rate comes down, take a little breather, that's actually good for your adrenals. And that's what's really tough is because women don't, a lot of women don't realize that because again, they're just told you to lose weight, exercise more, and when you think of exercise will do most people think of, I'm gonna go do cardio, I'm gonna hop on this treadmill, I'm gonna get outside and go for a two hour long run, which I'm not a runner. So I definitely couldn't do that. I'll never be a runner either. But it's tough, because that's typically what we're told. And it's, I can see it even with my own clients, I have to break that mindset with them. And it can be a difficult for really difficult for some because especially my runners, I got a lot of women economy that are marathon runners, and they're dying. They're just miserable and gaining weight and tire. And hair's falling out in clumps, and all these things that I'm like, you're still running. Yeah, I'm still running. I'm like, Well, we're going to have to cut that out. And it's really tough. It's a very tough conversation, but they can feel changes. And when they start feeling that I'm like, This is why I've been saying this, you can't kill yourself like that your body is not designed to do that.

What do you tell the woman who is worried about getting bulky? Because I think there's different conversations around this, I think, and I'd love to hear your perspective.

It's interesting, because when I got certified as a personal trainer, you know, you learn all the things, this rep range needs to be with this, if you want to hypertrophy, this rep range needs to be this if you want to just maintain your muscle mass. There is obviously there's research around that we can see that, like there's no question with that. But in my own experience, and when I was doing a lot of personal training, I did pretty decent amount of weight with a lot of my clients. And the big reason why is because I might you need that resistance, you're not going to vote. It's just you have to like get over that kind of fear. You're not going to bull. But here's where it gets tricky. In my experience, when I have seen women that they felt whether we saw it or not, they felt like they were getting bulky, doing high resistance. I'm like, What's your diet like? Because what I noticed it was they weren't getting enough protein in so they weren't weren't supporting the muscle with the amino acids, too. They were loading up on carbs. And it was usually Yuck, carbs, they were eating junk food still. And I'm like, that doesn't help. And that literally is the only time when I have seen women where they have bulked up not massive, but you could see changes where they were kind of bulking up. I'm like, Yeah, because you're eating really really junky food and you're not getting any protein, you're not supporting that muscle mass to have, you know, kind of leaner muscle mass. You're eating all this junk foods. So you're creating inflammation. What follows inflammation, I like swelling, you're gonna have swelling, you might even retain more water, things like that. I'm like, if you're not getting your diet better, and working on that at the same time on like, you could run that risk where it might look bulky, and it's not necessarily the most muscle bulking, its water, its water retention, it happens all the time. And that that's an on really can be a tough conversation to have sometimes because I'm like, the diet has to be such an important piece of it. And I know even for me when I was in my 20s The doctor said Eat less exercise more. So what did I do? exercise more, do more cardio, didn't do weight, much weight training. I ate a little less what I was eating like, Cheerios. I mean, I wasn't like eating protein. I was eating like junk food. I'm like, no wonder I was like, getting kind of bigger, but like, not muscular. Like I wanted to I wasn't like leaning out. I like this, this isn't working. And again, I was taxing my adrenals I was eating junk food still. And like that combination doesn't work when you're when you're doing a lot of weight training that. Again, what I've seen over the years with a lot of women is that the nutrition part is often ignored and that's actually a really crucial piece so that when we are lifting weights and and put it this way, I've always had an athletic bill. I'm I've never been like this skinny. Like, that's not my body. I'm always always an athletic field. But what I noticed with my body is when I got my nutrition spot on, and I started I can do it pretty heavyweight now. I'm leaner and fitter than I've ever been. And I'm doing the heaviest weight I've ever been. And I know it's because I have my nutrition. It's so spot on. And I have got my adrenals and my thyroid like functioning so much better and I'm not killing myself with cardio. That's actually what's helping my body. That's what's getting me into that position where I I can do those weights. And I'm not like getting massive from it. I'm not like bulking out I have really solid like leaner muscles from it's an amazing. I recently heard

Andy Galpin on Andrew few Berman's podcast. And he really made it really simple. He's like, do three to five different moves. Three to five reps, three to five sets, three to five days a week. Now, he was like, Wow, that's so simple. Yeah, it seems almost Yeah. Simple. Yeah.

And it really, honestly, it's exactly. And when you think about it, I just seem like it's too simple. But that's why I'm so big about like, movement patterns. Um, like, everyday movement patterns, we need those. So I'm like, you don't have to get hung up on Oh, we have to hit every single body part, do every single thing like individually, I like combo moves, because for one, you get more bang for your buck. But it doesn't need to be so complicated. And that's where it can get tricky, as a lot of people need to be so complicated. And it really does not need to be that complicated, you can keep it very, very simple. And the reps do not have to be like, oh, a woman should only do I've seen this 20 to 25 reps and the light super weight. And I'm like, pretty hard to gain muscle and have good, good solid muscle around your joints. When you're repping out that higher reps, and you're not getting enough resistance. And it's hard to do that. And again, you I see it with my with women, I see it with clients, I'm like, you're better off to get those reps down and get that weight up. So that you're getting some resistance to that muscle that that muscle buys a chance to respond.

Yeah, so I'm curious your thoughts on rep scheme. Because I know maybe some of the older research, as well as trainers, especially if the goal is hypertrophy, right? So like building the muscle, that the reps need to be, you know, closer to like 12 reps per set. And then 20 sets per muscle group per week. What are your thoughts on that? Because I feel like for the hotshoe lady, that's a lot.

That's too much. Yeah. And that's honestly, and that's why, like I said earlier to like my personal training certification. That's how we learned it. That's how we learned it. And I'm like, Oh, ha, she's can't do that. Like, I couldn't do that. Even now. And I've been working out for a long time. That's a lot. My body could not do that. I mean, I put it this way, I would be exhausted. And it would catch up with me if I tried to do that. 12 reps. Yeah, I can see a time and place for that, again, depending on what the move is, depending on where the person is. But yeah, like that's first of all, that's a long workout. And that's that's a lot of intensity. And I just don't think a lot Hachi people can't handle that. I feel like that's just going to be too much. Compounding on the body, the body, the body will have a hard time to to keep up with that. I usually don't do it that way. Even though it is like like you said considered like the norm. This is how you have to do it. Right. And I'm like, you have to take in consideration what where the person is that with their health? Someone who doesn't have Hashimotos? They probably could do that. Yeah, totally could. But when you are partially motos and and hypothyroidism, the body can't do that. And typically I don't, I'm not going to recommend that either.

Yeah. What's the rep scheme? You do recommend? Like if there was a range?

So I'm usually 12 would definitely be the max. I'm usually doing like six to eight, maybe eight to 10. It kind of depends on I'm usually I rarely go over 10. Again, it depends on where the person is depends on the move that I'm doing my bigger like compound moves, especially like squat, deadlifts, things like that. We're doing like six to eight. Yeah. And again, it's hard because a lot of women are like, who I'm going to bulk up like, I thought I was supposed to do like 25 of these. And I'm like, Well, you could, but you're really not going to get muscle response from it. So I'm I typically try to go lower, again, depends on where the person is, my more advanced people, they're definitely fit with it. Like once they get into it. They're like, Oh, yeah, they liked that ceiling of six to eight rep range. Because they're like, I feel like I'm getting a response. Like it's really, really hard because I have the weight heavier. And I can do you know, you know, even six reps, they love that. And I'm like, even if you get four, I'm like, let's just get that weight up a little bit. Let's get to keep the reps kind of lower. And it's hard because a lot of them like I said, especially if they done exercise before or they've worked with a trainer before. Typically, that's what they're told, Oh, you're a woman, you got to do like 25. I had someone who said that they did 35 reps that everything they did, because their trainers said you have to do 35 to 50 reps as a woman. And that was a hard one to break. I'm like that's a lot of reps. Like you can't do much weight with that and like your muscles are not going to respond to that. It's kind of that mundane, it's, I always use the analogy. It's just like doing steady state cardio, and like you're doing the same thing. ain't over and over for like an extended period of time. I'm like the muscles weren't respond enough to that,

and could predispose you, especially if you're hyper mobile to an overuse injury or a tendon injury. Yeah.

Yeah. And you see that a lot. I see that a lot with my shoulders.

Do you give any specific cues, because especially with hypermobility, the ligament laxity, I think women have a hard time, kind of knowing where they are in space, like so if they think they're standing up straight. It's really like, oh, where your knees are, like, back behind your ankles. You know, hey, you know, ligaments. Yeah, are there any specific cues through a move or during a move or to finish a move, and we can pick a move that you give, so that they don't when their knees are straight, they don't kind of just blink sit on their ligaments.

So some of the big things that I'm always cueing them on. One is a lot of, especially with that kind of ligament laxity. Like when we're doing even like deadlifts, like locking the knees out, I'm like, what's not like the knees out, that's a big one that I have to queue a lot on is not locking the knees out. And especially a lot of them just don't think about, let's make sure this the core is contracted. Let's make sure and sometimes I'll even have to say, do like a table, do Kegel exercise, like squeeze, so that we can get some engagement of the core just to support your body a little bit better support your back a little bit better. But it definitely can be tough with a lot of, it's really easy as far so with the ligament laxity just slam the joint, even with like, if they're doing like a bicep curl or something like those, blam that joint out and in, so I have to have them control. Let's control the weight, whatever the move is, whatever the move is they're doing, let's control the weight. Let's keep that movement pattern nuts not flight through it, that's a really big, huge last hump, they want to just get through the workout and they're flying through the movement. And so I have to give them like tempo cues even, like, okay, and I'll say two seconds on like, two seconds down. Two seconds back, like I'll, I'll have to make them slow. Sometimes I'll have to save three seconds to make them slow down, because they're just wind through it. That's a great way to like slam the joint out and hyperextend it's a great way to have a terrible forum when you're flying right through it because you're not thinking about it. And it's like you said, a lot of them can't. The spatial awareness may not even be there. Like they can't even feel like where their body like you said, like where your needs are relative to your toes. And you know, like where your butt is, like when we were doing a deadlift, you know, a lot of I, that's another cue amps that like stick your butt out, like get your butt back, like you're sitting in a chair, stick your butt back, because that that awareness usually isn't there. And they're like, Oh, I Why would I want to do that? I'm like, Well, you got to sit in a chair. Right? You have to sit on toilet, right? So sit stick your butt back. And it's, it can be tough for some because that they want to just fly through the movement pattern.

Yeah. Do you ever tempo, the E centric, the E centric portion of the move? Sometimes I think when I'm programming, okay, if the goal is muscle to like Feed The Muscle with the resistance training, how can I see those muscle fibers without having someone pick up a weight because maybe they have limited weight at home. And without, you know, totally taking them out. So sometimes I'll tempo and sweat on the eccentric part of the move just to kind of like work around those two limitations of limiting weight and limiting energy expenditure.

Tempo out, yeah, I will tempo out to and do okay, we're going to slow that eccentric down. And they're like, oh, that's kind of hard. And I'm like, that's why we're doing it. Especially when they're limited. With a they don't have the equipment or like, especially they're doing it like at home don't have much equipment don't have much time. I'm like, alright, well, we're gonna do this, we're gonna load this E centric, we're gonna go really slow on this. It's hard I Do I Do. eccentric loading myself. It's probably one of the hardest workouts that any workout that I do, if I do Morris centric loading on, it's probably one of the hardest workout. For sure. I love doing that with the Hershey people too. Because when you do that, too, you have to go slow with it because you're trying to get that new centric load. So they have to slow down to keep with that tempo number. So it makes them controlled better. They're not slamming the weight. So they will get more muscle reaction from that that way too. And it's a great way to incorporate more. I'll say intensity, but more muscle work. With less time or less equipment. It's a great way to incorporate that. Yeah.

Last question. What and I don't think a lot of women know this. So let's say we're just using that like six to eight rep

range.

What should the last, like how should someone feel as they're going through their reps? Because I think a lot of women don't know how heavy they should be lifting because by the last couple reps, they have like 10 More in the take. So why should someone scale Yeah, by like, Rep. Let's say if we're doing six to eight by like rep five, six Seven, like, what physical sensations should they be feeling? So

again, it definitely can be person dependent. But like, even in my own workout, I'm usually listening to first of all, if I can physically feel, which I had, that's actually today, because I did legs today, I tend to physically feel like, okay, my body's like actually like tingling. Like I don't know, if I could get like, get that much more definitely have to listen to things like that. The other thing too, that I have people pay attention to as well is, for example, I did lakes today, so I was doing a deadlift better, I can feel like my core was like, not going to support me, like it was tapping out, that was my cue, like, Okay, you need your back support here. So you cannot, if you can, like I physically like could not get my core to do anything, I'm like, that's, that's my cue, I cannot go, I cannot do more reps than this, or I'm gonna mess my back up or whatever. So I have people pay attention to that for sure. The other factor that I then this is, again, where a lot of spatial awareness comes into play, you have to watch your form. And if you so let's say you're on Rep Number six, and your rep range is six, eight, you're like, I really want to get to eight, you're doing deadlift pattern, you can't even get your butt back, your knees are like way over your toe, and you're like, No, I can still do it. Even though the waist you have like, that's your cue to stop, you can't keep that the form has to be so spot on every single rep. And if you can physically feel your body is not in that form, again, I do a lot education on what the form should be for the moves. If you can physically feel your body is not in that form, I'm like, that's your cue to stop, you cannot go further with those reps. And then of course, if you're you, you have to, and that again, that take it takes a lot of almost to work around this and paying attention to your cues with your body. But let's say I'm on rep six, and I'm like, I really want to get to rep eight. I just feel like I'm going to vomit. I just feel thick. Like I feel like lightheaded almost like blood sugar's tanking, I'm like, don't push through that, because I do have people do that they're like, No, I gotta get to my eight rep, I'm gonna do it, or they'll be all like rep four. And I'm like, I would rather you stop at rep four. To avoid that. Even though your rep range, maybe six to eight, I would rather you stop that. And then again, that's your cue. So let's say, rep range six, eight, you're doing deadlift, you get to rep, you're on set number two, you get to rep number four, and your body's like I can't, I can't physically do it, I think I'm gonna be like, I'm like lightheaded or whatever, and my form is terrible. That's your cue cut the weight down, you can't do that weight, I would rather you get to that six to upper six, eight rep range. And let's cut that week back a little bit. And I do sometimes we'll have to have people do, they'll do a little bit certain weight in the beginning, and then they may add weight on, they'll have different weight. For the same exercise. Yeah, and start working up that way. Versus like, you're doing the same amount of weight for every single set, again, just depends on the person and how I design it. But even for me, like I A lot of times I can add weight. as I as I do more set up and I'll move, you know, homophily but I'm like, Yeah, but you have um, like you still you have to, you have to feel safe, you have to feel like you are using good form. And that's where, and this is hard because a lot of women are like, I don't want to look in the mirror. And like you have to, you have to watch yourself in the mirror. If you can't keep that form, can't rip that out and you can't get to your rep range, first of all, and then you probably need to drop that weight down. Well, I want you to get to your rep safely with using that proper form. And I'm, again, I'm a pretty big stickler about form. And that's where I might get in, you got to watch the mirror, I need you to look in the mirror so that you know you're getting a good form. Now, sometimes women once they've been working out, they can feel that they're they're not, you know, necessarily adamant about being in front of a mirror, but and they get that sensation where they can physically feel like yeah, I feel like I'm doing pretty good form here. I'm getting into my reps and feeling safe with it. But again, I've had people where they're like nice, like, get like a little lightheaded. And I'm like that your blood sugar's drop in life. You stop like you can't push yourself past that point. Yeah. Because that's what we do. Like a lot of women were like, No, I'm gonna suck it up. I'm gonna push through it. And I'm like, now you can't do that. Yeah, you gotta listen to your body still. Yeah. Such an important

message. I feel like we're living parallel lives and the information we're sharing. So I'm like, yes. Wait, slow and rest breaks.

Yeah. Which is not the norm again. That's not what we're told.

Yes. And I love that there is someone else out in the world that also sees it the Hashi ladies have hypermobility because I felt like this conversation is like, How come no one else sees it. So it's so nice. Where can people find you?

So I'm on Instagram at Angela brown coach. I'm on there a lot. I do a lot of videos and stuff like that on there. And then I have a website at Angela brown.or have tons of like freebies and stuff like that a lot of good info on there too. So that's where I hang out a lot on Instagram though. I'm on Facebook too, but I'm not on there. As much Instagram was like my favorite spot.

Awesome. Thank you so much. It was so wonderful having you on Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, just to have like a fellow movement person in this world it's so nice.

Yeah, it is nice. I agree with you

if you enjoyed this episode or even learned just one new piece of information to help you on your Hashimotos journey, would you do me a huge favor? rate and review thyroid strong podcast on iTunes, Spotify or whatever platform you're used to listen to this podcast and share what you liked. maybe learn something new. And if you didn't like it, well shoot me a DM on Instagram Dr. Emily hybird. I read and respond to every single DM I truly believe all feedback is good feedback. Even the ugly comments if you're interested in joining the thyroid strong course a home workout program using kettlebells and weights where I teach you how to work out without the burnout. Go to Dr. Emily clyburn.com forward slash T SW waitlist. You'll get all the most up to date information on when the course launches and goes live special deals and early access bonuses for myself and my functional medicine doctor friends again Dr. Emily khyber.com forward slash T 's weightless. Hope to see you on the inside ladies