Hey there, listener! Thank you for checking out our older seasons! We're adding this note on the top of the show notes to keep you up-to-date with the show. Connect with Jen Amos and get bonus content when you subscribe to our private podcast show, Inside the Fort by US VetWealth, at http://insidethefort.com/

Last Updated: September 2, 2024

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135: "When you hurt so bad, you think that people don't love you. But the truth is... they do." Healing and advocacy through storytelling with Olivia Nunn

What would you do if you finally said, "I need help," only to be told that the earliest you can be helped is in six months? This was the situation Lt. Col. Olivia Nunn and Soldier for Life Director of Communications found herself in when faced with many challenges around her military transition. Newly retired, Olivia openly shares her story and mental health advocacy as the podcast host and producer for the Never Stop Serving podcast series for Military Officers Association of America (MOAA). She brings light to the lack of resources for our military community, the importance of advocating for lower enlisted ranks, the turning point to her suicidal ideations, creating change as a community, and much more.

Connect with Olivia

• https://www.instagram.com/the_olivianunn/ 
• https://www.instagram.com/calm.in.the.storm/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivia-j-nunn/
• https://www.facebook.com/olivia.nunn2 

Resources

• MOAA is the nation's largest and most influential association of military officers. It is an independent, nonprofit, politically nonpartisan organization. https://www.moaa.org/
• MOAA’s Never Stop Serving Podcast https://www.moaa.org/content/topic-and-landing-pages/moaas-never-stop-serving-podcast/
• Jen and Jenny Lynne's Interview - Holding Down the Fort - The Military Family and the Backbone that Keeps it Together https://www.buzzsprout.com/1847212/10184211-holding-down-the-fort-the-military-family-and-the-backbone-that-keeps-it-together
• If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, please reach out immediately to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255 or dial 988, which has been designated as the new three-digit dialing code that will route callers to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. Learn more at https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
• For additional mental health resources, check out our past newsletter from December 13, 2021 https://us4.campaign-archive.com/?u=713c5c25a1186d1f165bc7edd&id=9228ea652a

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RETURNING FALL 2023

The award-winning podcast, Holding Down the Fort by US VetWealth, is returning for Season 7 in Fall 2023 to share inspiring stories of service and self-sufficiency from the military community! This show is a must-listen for military servicemembers and families interested in pursuing financial autonomy while serving our nation.

The show is very excited to announce its new partnership with The Rosie Network, which will include featuring the stories of Service2CEO Cohort Members. Read more about this exciting partnership at https://issuu.com/therosienetwork/docs/me_mag_2023/16

Our main sponsor US VetWealth is proud to announce their newest FREE resource hub: Military Retirement Blueprint — the perfect knowledge library for career retiring military officers who want to make the most of their retirement. This specialized program provides training, guides, consulting, investment-grade insurance strategies, financial & retirement planning, and more. Join for FREE today by visiting: https://usvetwealth.com/war-chest-learning-center-access-the-military-retirement-blueprint/

Stay connected and get the latest updates from our Holding Down the Fort by US VetWealth community by subscribing to our newsletter: http://eepurl.com/gTTOdT Questions? Email jen@holdingdownthefortpodcast.com

In August 2022, Jen Amos' work on the podcast was recognized by Disney Institute and she was hand-selected as the only non-Disney employee to moderate the first Military Spouse Employment panel for the Veterans Institute Summit. March 2022, Jenny Lynne has voted the 2022 Naval Station Norfolk Armed Forces Insurance Military Spouse of the Year. November 2020, Jen Amos was awarded “Media Professional of the Year” at The Rosie Network Entrepreneur Awards! The show continued to collect award nominations in the following years. In September 2021, the show made the Final Slate in the 16th Annual People's Choice Podcast Awards for the Government & Organizations category. In November 2021, the show was an Award Finalist for the 5th Annual National Veteran & Military Spouse Entrepreneur Awards. December 2021, the show was a Golden Crane Podcast Awards Nominee. September 2022, the show was a Finalist for the 13th Annual Plutus Awards presented by Capital Group for “Best Military Personal Finance Content.”

Holding Down the Fort has also been featured in multiple media outlets including Military Entrepreneur (M.E.) Magazine, MOAA’s Never Stop Learning Podcast, The Leadership Void Podcast, Lessons Learned for Vets Podcast, Sisters in Service Podcast, Get 2 Vet, Blue Star Families of Dayton & Southwestern Ohio, Legacy Magazine, U.S. Veterans Magazine, The American MilSpouse, VeteranCrowd Network, It's a Military Life, VirtForce, Military Veteran Dad Podcast, and much more.

Enjoy our show? Kindly leave us a written 5-Star review on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30SJ7NW, Podchaser https://bit.ly/3dnCacY, or write a LinkedIn Recommendation for Jen Amos https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenamos/edit/forms/recommendation/write/

Jen Amos 0:00

Alright, hey everyone. Welcome back to the award winning podcast show holding down the fort. I am your Creator and co host Jenn emos. And as always, I have my amazing co host with me, Jenny Lynch troupe. Jennylyn. Welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 0:11

Hey, glad to be here today.

Jen Amos 0:13

Yes, I know, we are especially excited as we always are. Actually, when we do these conversations, it's so interesting, because like, the day before, I'm almost like, for lack of better term, like dreading the experience of interviewing, but when I'm actually in it, it's like extremely exciting, because it's what you mentioned in like, a couple seasons ago when you said that these conversations are very life giving. And I feel like I get off of these conversations, just feeling like rejuvenated and affirmed, you know, for the work that we're doing. So thank you for sharing this experience with me on our podcast show.

Speaker 1 0:42

Of course, it is one of my most favorite things.

Jen Amos 0:46

I love it. And I love that you say that every time because it's like, oh my gosh, she still wants to be here. It makes me so happy. All right. Well, without further ado, as I mentioned, we're pretty excited because we get to bring on another incredible guest here on holding on the fort. We have Lieutenant Colonel retired Olivia Nunn, who is the podcast host and producer for the never stopped serving podcast series for Moa. And fun fact, she's a queen, but not just any queen, a pageant queen. So without further ado, Olivia, welcome to hold down the fort.

Speaker 2 1:15

Thank you so very much for bringing me onto your show. I'm super excited to be here. Thank you.

Jen Amos 1:20

Yeah. And I want to extend my gratitude to you for inviting genuine and I to your show, just because I think that MOA was an organization, we had been meaning to collaborate for some time. Now I know. Even Matthew was working with us genuinely and your husband to your unofficial PR guy. Yeah, or the official PR guy to connect. And, you know, for me, it's kind of like, hey, if it happens, it happens. And, you know, fortunately, Olivia, somehow you found us, I don't know how, but you reached out and run your show. And I just can't be any more grateful. So thank you for the opportunity to have been on your show.

Speaker 2 1:53

Oh, no, we had such a great conversation. And so super excited that I could to be on your show. Because anytime that you know women can empower each other and carry on a conversation and especially be able to talk about the military community in a way that's uplifting, empowering and really get to the heart of the matter, which is giving back to the military community is such fun for me, right? I mean, I could spend all day and we said that on my show about how I could go on for hours. But you know, I'm sure our listeners would like to go do other things.

Jen Amos 2:28

Yeah, I think that's when you know that you've had a good conversation is when you leave the listeners wanting for more. And they're like, oh my gosh, like there's so much more to Olivia story or my story or genuine story that I want to learn. And so we hope that in sharing our stories, it does compel you to check the show notes of this episode to reach out to us. So a little plug in there for people to reach out to us.

Speaker 1 2:49

I was really contemplating that. We all said that we don't have a hard stop until 530. And that would make this a two and a half hour long podcast. And we would literally go everywhere with our guests because you publish a lot of things in two and a half. Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 3:02

Give Joe Rogan a run for his show.

Speaker 1 3:06

Back Shepard, those are Gauss really an hour and 45 minutes long, we can be the next armchair expert.

Jen Amos 3:12

Anyway, so moving on ahead, Olivia. It's amazing. First and foremost, that you know, you're here today to not just representing MOA, but represent you. And before we really even get to MOA, I want to talk about your journey, having served in military, and the theme of holding down the fort this year is answering the question, when are we going to get out? And I know your story is still very fresh, you know, you're still fairly new in post military life. So tell us a little bit about your experience in the military, particularly right before you transitioned to your transition?

Speaker 2 3:45

Unknown Speaker 5:52

But that last part, that wife was about to go away,

Speaker 2 5:59

I was about to experience divorce, my love story is about to come to a crashing halt. And that was so unexpected. And so for any listener, who has gone through that transition, that's gut wrenching, right? It's scary. It's, you know, it's so unknown, even if you know that it's going to be something you want to do, right, because what's on the other side is still scary. And that is now overlaid with, I'm going through a divorce. And that sent me down this very dark path. And, to the point of,

Unknown Speaker 6:36

I was planning a suicide.

Jen Amos 6:41

Thank you, first and foremost, Olivia, for sharing all that. And I know that you are very transparent with your story. And I know that you openly talk about it. And there's so many facets of your life that you're so open to talk about. At the same time, I was actually talking about this with a friend the other day, you know, there's a difference between, let's say, raw emotions, and processed emotions. So raw emotions are kind of the initial feeling like that that dark space that you're in, you know, where maybe like, like, you don't know what to do, you don't know how to act, you don't know who to ask for, for help. And then there's the process emotions, where you could actually talk about what had happened. And so the fact that you are here to tell us what had happened to give us even just a bullet point, I know that it's more than just a bullet point of what you went through, it was a very dark time, as you had mentioned. And so I just want to commend you for having done the work that you needed to do, really, to show up to the space today, and share your processed emotions in a sense, and tell your story. And more importantly, I think, like we mentioned earlier, just being able to give back to our community. And part of the way that you're doing that is not just with the podcast show, but in sharing your story. So candidly,

Speaker 1 7:46

was interesting, what listeners can't see is that Jen and I are not often speechless. But it took us both a minute after hearing the story, which also isn't our first time hearing that story. And so that speaks to the level of impact that it has when you share it, Olivia. And also, you know, working in mental health, like it just really breaks my heart to know that here you were somebody set up with so many resources and the resources that you needed, when you needed them weren't right there. You know, that's a lot like you were going through. I mean, people don't list military transition is like what there's like a list of like, the top 10 most impactful things in life. And you know, one of them is death, and the other ones divorce and military transition should be on there. But it's not because there's only you know, like point 5% of us who do this. You know, I mean, you were going through like a lot like a handful of the largest things that cause people to have mental health issues and to need extra support. And, you know, I just appreciate you sharing that so beautifully.

Speaker 2 8:59

And so here I am, as a lieutenant colonel, who know that no, is not an answer. Who knows? That No, cannot be an answer, who's got an attitude far larger than a five foot one frame? Right? I'm very short. But my attitude is much larger. Who knows that I cannot and will not take no for an answer. And here's the truth in the military. The bulk of our force isn't at Lieutenant Colonel, the bulk of our force resides at E form below. And not because they're dumb because they are not. You just don't know what you don't know, at that young age. I didn't know when I was a lieutenant or a captain. So when you're at that young age, because that's typically what you are, when you're at that lower enlisted rank that lower officer rank. You don't know how to advocate for yourself. So you're going to take no as that answer. And that is absolutely not right. And to me, that cannot be right. That blows my mind. And that is why I'm on this journey. And that is why I believe that we have to have this conversation. That is why I'm so passionate about having this conversation and sharing my story that this five foot one with an attitude larger than life is saying that no is not the answer. Because I can have this attitude. I can have this voice. I can have this conversation for those that cannot to change the system to change the narrative so that we can bring those resources to those that do not understand that no, it will not be the answer, because we have to change it. Because right now we're looking at 22 a day, we have to stop soldier suicide. And how do we do it? We do it as a community, we leverage the communities around us to change the narrative. And we start by sharing my story, your story and the stories around us.

Absolutely.

You know, what I really appreciate you saying is, you know, talking about the forest being, you know, really e4 and below, and not only are you a lower rank, you're also very young at that age. And like pointing that out to you know, any civilians that may listen to this, or even folks that just didn't realize that was the statistic, my husband, I have long talked about, you know, what is the solution to DS D, stigmatizing mental health in the military. And the thing we keep coming back to is the thing, though, you know, we learned in the recovery rooms is like, somebody has to go first, and it needs to be the people with the higher rank to go, Look, I'm the admiral who got help. I'm the general who got help on the, you know, Lieutenant Commander, commander, who got help, and I'm still here, I'm still doing the thing, it did not break my career, you know. And also be very honest about the ways that it may have turned your career, you know, as a family, there have been places we did not go because of my husband's honesty with some of his struggles. And also, that didn't mean that it was bad. Like, it wasn't what we thought was going to happen. But something else did. And that took us down a different path, which, you know, honestly, I can look back and say, was the better path for my family, given where we were as a family and the resources we needed at the time, the thing that was, quote, unquote, taken away from us was actually for our good. But I think being honest about those things, you know, it's not enough to blink it. Well, you, you know, you can talk about it. And it's not going to affect your career, like, that's BS, like, it is going to affect your career. But it may not affect it permanently, or negatively, or, you know, like, it may just change what you thought it was going to be. And I think the more people of rank that stand up and say that and the more guys that stand up is safety, stand down days and do the thing, you know, is really the way that we break stigma with this.

Yeah, this is just such a powerful conversation. Because, you know, I am the product of someone who didn't take care of their mental health. You know, my dad, he was enlisted. He served in the 80s and 90s. And one thing that my mom, my mom's so hilarious, like, she will just like, she doesn't like, tell me about my family history, but she'll kind of tell me if it comes up. It's like, oh, yeah, by the way, you know, one of those things, it's like, Wow, mom, had you told me that forever, I probably would have been less traumatize or like, I would have less issues. But anyway, that's beside the point. I love my mom. Hi, mom. Anyway, I just I remember, like, my mom told me the story that when I was one year old, and my dad was already I think, like halfway like he was planning on going career at this point. He had attempted to take his life he like he actively did. And since this is like a rated E podcast show, I'll say it, you know, he slit his wrist. And fortunately, you know, I don't know how he was found. But I know that from what my mom told me, they put him through counseling. But who knows what happened since then. Because, you know, often when we hear about my dad's story through his, you know, fellow sailors and family, we hear that he was the kind of guy who didn't want to burden people with his problems. And, you know, we're about 18 and a half years in, you know, the first duty station I was born into was in Yokosuka, Japan. And that happened to be my dad's last duty station before he was going to transition out when his ship was, you know, traveling from Japan to South Korea. And he had gone missing. And so that from that point, you know, they never found him, I think he was reported as unknown, or his death was reported as unknown, or that he may have drowned. And that just kind of really catapulted our family, you know, straight into civilian life. And it really took me till really now like, now I'm in my 30s. to unpack like, what all that meant to me, and how even I myself I had all these questions of like, Why do I have depression? Why do I have anxiety? Why do I not want to be here? You know, I was reading this book. I forgot the author's name, but it was called it didn't start with you. And it talks about how generational trauma gets handed down to the next kin. And recently not not like right now, but more like almost almost two years ago during the pen Ma, I had this strong urge to self harm. And actually, I don't know, genuine, you're hearing this for the first time. So you're all hearing this for the first time. And I know I shouldn't be talking about it in upbeat voice. But that's, you know, my coping mechanism is humor and lightness. But, you know, I had this strong urge to self harm. And I didn't understand why. And when my mom had told me the story about my dad initially trying to take his life when I was only one years old, well, it turned out that he did that around my age around in, like two years ago. And sometimes we repeat what our, you know, parents, grandparents ancestors did at a certain age. So it's like, I don't even have this urge to want to do it to begin with. I didn't plan for this, I didn't plan to be this way. But it gets handed down. And I, I share this entire story. And I see this even a lot, you know, and Scott and my husband, who's a veteran, and like, this kind of like feeling like, Oh, I'm taking up too much space, or I don't want to get in trouble. Or, like, I don't want to increase my, let's say, disability percentage, because I don't want to take money from tax, but just this feeling of like, I don't deserve certain things is a general message I'm sharing. It breaks my heart. Because it's like, when you say that, you know, you don't matter. Or you say that you don't deserve certain things. You're sending a message to your kids, or anyone around you that they too shouldn't be deserving. And so, so yeah, I share all this, because it's like, I can really resonate with the story of like, you know, we have to advocate for mental health, because it does cause a ripple effect. It does impact, you know, your loved ones, as well. And I don't want to say that as a way to guilt, someone who maybe is wanting to tap, I don't want them to think well, what about your loved ones? How dare you not think about your loved ones? How dare you be selfish. That's not what I'm trying to say, I am just trying to tell you my perspective of what it has been like to be on the other side of someone who may have possibly taken their life. And maybe, you know, there's this, there's a lot of theories, but you know, one of the theories as to why they marked my dad as unknown, so that we can get our benefits is so that, you know, we could benefit from chapter 35. And, you know, my siblings, and I go to college, etc, etc. Yeah, that's just sort of what comes to mind for me. And I think like in talking from all our different perspectives, you know, Olivia, you as a veteran, genuine, as a military spouse, and I have myself as a veteran spouse and a Goldstar daughter, to be able to bring light to this and recognize that, how you take care of your mental health impacts, like everyone, and it's just something to take into consideration. That's all, and showing how someone like me had struggled and fortunately, have gotten to this point in place in time to be able to do a show like this to show and to share my process. The motions like Olivia has, at this point, to bring awareness ultimately. So thanks for listening. I kind of went off there for a while. But

Olivia, go ahead.

No, but I you know, and I think the truth is in you showed it to is that it's an ever evolving process. It doesn't go away. And it's multifaceted. It's complex. And there's no right or wrong answer. You know, for me, from my perspective, it was I thought I was the problem. And the Army taught me find the problem, fix the problem, remove the problem. And in my head, I'm the problem. And so if I'm the problem, you remove the problem. And the Army also taught me how to be an effective planner. So you start planning, so you remove them, if if I'm the problem, find, fix and remove and start planning. That's how I saw it. And it wasn't, you know, you don't think about the things on the flip side from, you know, in your perspective as in, what are the ramifications and all of the things that are left behind, right? Because you see it from the pain from this side. And then at the same time, like I don't want it to seem like Well, I figured it out. And because I got past it that everything is rainbows and sunshine, it isn't right. I've gotten past the point where I no longer actively plan to end my life. Right. But that does not mean that I don't have dark days, or that I don't have days that I feel like crap, or that I don't feel good. Right. I still have those days. I do have less of those days, I will be honest. I'm a work in progress. You know, and I will tell you that it still sucks and it still hurts. And that's why I think it's important that we have these conversations. And it's important that we're open about it. So that it is part of the narrative, and we are not hiding it. More so for me, culturally in the Asian community. We don't talk about it. Right. It is a very shunned conversation, right? It's the whole like, speak no evil See No Evil Hear No Evil As if it doesn't really exist. And if it doesn't exist, we don't have to worry about it. And the truth is, you can do that all you want, but it's still here. And that's not a way of dealing with it. And you see that you've seen that in the professional sports community, when it comes to mental health. We've seen this in the military community, and we just have to change that. And we can't keep doing what we've been doing, because that's not the right answer. Because there's so much hurt in our community. And I'm just so passionate about it just because of yes, I've gone through it. I've had friends that have gone through it. And we really just need to work together to start moving the needle in a different direction, because it's not going to get better and unless we do something. So how do we do something? Well, yes, we start with talking. And then the next part is, let's start advocating. And that's where MOA comes in this organization that I work for, right? That's why podcast for them, because MOA Military Officers Association of America is an nonprofit organization that actually does something right. They do something by advocating for the military by going on Capitol Hill, right on a plethora of topics, many times on behalf of the military, in itself, and a lot of times for the military family, which is where talking to you guys came about right? Because the military family is a huge part of that conversation. That's the backbone of the military. And we have to do that is a multi front effort. Right, both inside the military, outside the military, in conversation with the policymakers and the military

family.

Yeah, definitely, I want to actually highlight one of the legislative priorities that MOA has been focused on for 2022, which is the protecting family support programs and ensure military provided services are readily available and meet standards for quality and costs. Because Fun fact, you know, programs and services for military and veteran families are often the first to see cuts when the government funding becomes tight. And that in turn, unfortunately, diminishes the quality and availability of these programs. Similar to your story earlier, Olivia about how like, even though you had access to all of these resources and organizations, and you had the connections, and they knew who you were, you still you had to wait six months. And so I just want to give a shout out to MOA for you know, their efforts to, you know, try to continue to improve the quality of the services, you know, for our military families. Because, you know, if anything, it's even a great incentive for the military. Because if they're providing good services, then you're likely to maintain or retain your service members, you don't want to leave you appreciate the incentives of being in service, especially, you know, choosing to volunteer, as you know, we were mentioning in a previous conversation, you know, the military has been a volunteer force since the 70s. And so if you want to keep us here, and you want us to say good things about the community, take care of us. Right and considering. Yeah, anyway,

I think I'll leave it at that. I had so many thoughts,

especially about like this initiative with MOA. Like as an active duty military family member. I am grateful for Mila and other organizations that continue to advocate for, you know, putting dollars behind the words of many well meaning programs. We have a story very similar to Olivia is trying to find help for our children. And literally walking a referral around a Naval Hospital and getting told go to this person oh actually is that person actually is this person to finally find the person who actually get help, only to be told, actually, we're not even seeing any family members here because we're full. And then you know, out in town. Nobody was taking anyone with TRICARE because they were full. They weren't putting anybody on a list because they hadn't met their TRICARE quota. And so to know that there are organizations out there advocating for more resources, especially in the mental health and like, family, what's the word I want to use? Like? Like the keeping the family together realm, you know, means a lot to me as an active duty family member, because as Olivia said, like the military family is the backbone of the military. And when those things start to fall apart, like the service member is not as able to focus on the things that need to be focused on it work so putting money and programming behind military families is well worth the investment in my opinion.

Absolutely. You know, when when your home is in order, then you could take care If your business matters, right? And it's not just the mental health realm, right, Moore is a huge advocate in an spouse for Spouse unemployment, right? Right now, when you look across unemployment, when you look at the sectors of unemployment, especially within the military community, inside the military community, spousal unemployment is the highest, it's a 27%. Right? A lot has to do with yes, let's be honest, a lot of spouses choose not to work for a plethora of reasons, right? It's because they're busy raising the family, because we move every two to three years. And that is tough when you're moving zip codes. But the same token with that the reason why they don't work is because when you're moving every two to three years, it's hard to pick up and start a new job, right? I mean, here I am. I just said, you know, I've been doing the same thing for 20 years. Yes, I had a different job every couple years. But for the most part, it's kind of the same job, right? Yeah, I'm kind of generalizing. But here I am in a new job for the first time and I'm coming up on a year, this may will be one complete year that I've been in this civilian job, I can't imagine that I would have to start learning another job in another year or two, you know, completely going to a new location, resettling my family and then learning something else, because I might not even have the same type of job, you know, learning the whole new language of whatever thing that I'm learning after. I've already unboxed the house, because you know, moving the house is so much fun. Not, you know. And so it's more than just the mental health conversation. It's, it's about taking care of the family. And that's why organizations like Mala is so important. Because the truth is, when you are active duty, you can't advocate for yourself, you can't charge Capitol Hill and say, I've got a problem. And I need you to fix it. It doesn't work, right. That's why organizations like mo can do that on your behalf. And while the title is misleading Military Officers Association of America, I want to make sure your listeners understand MMA is more than just advocating just more than just the officers in the military. It is advocating for the military as a whole. Everything from mental health to spouses to let's talk about, you know, burn pits, right? Mole is one of the largest organizations that was out there advocating about the burn pit registries, when talking about the exposures, the toxic exposures to those burn pits, right? We're not done talking about that conversation. There's still more work that needs to be had with that. But we're talking about it. That's just one conversation. You know, how to prepare your finances, that's another there's just so many things that we could talk about within the military community. And that's why I love what MOA does. And that is why advocacy is at the heart of what MOA does. And it brings our community together, especially when we talk about this complex topic of mental health, because we're barely scratching the surface of mental health, because mental health is you're talking about this gray matter this brain, right? And we really don't even understand that Oregon, right? Because they say we use less than 10% of that gray matter. And when we really don't understand what that gray matter does. And, man, would it be amazing if we could just get more than just the military community to really wrap our brains around

the brain. Right?

And put resources behind it to be able to, you know, help not just the service members, but our family members, because mental health not only impacts the service member, but the family trauma leaves its sticky residue, not just on the service member, but to the family members, right. I mean, Jenny Lynn, you talk about that as a spouse. And Jen, you talk about that. Right. And I think that's the part that I think gets overlooked in this conversation. We get so focused, I think sometimes on the actual service member, because we get focused on the conversation about the person that wore the uniform and went to war. And I do not want to downplay that, right. I do not want to downplay that. Yes, war is nasty and ugly, and a lot comes from that. And there's a lot of trauma with that. But there's trauma outside of that, too. And we need to have that conversation. And that gets overlooked.

Yeah, I agree. And I appreciate you sharing that and talking about the military families. Because I think part of you know, my purpose in life today is to show up as a Gold Star family member to talk about the aftermath. Talk about what it took for me to get to this place in my 30s. Now to just candidly and almost humorously You know, talk about my upbringing, but it was really hard. And, you know, one of the biggest things that I struggle with till this day are feelings of abandonment, you know, having these unanswered questions about my dad, and even just how emotionally absent my mom became, because she had to provide for three kids under 11. And so it's very interesting how, even till this day, and I'm really grateful to be in therapy, but to have like, certain triggers that come up, and not even know their triggers until I talk about them in therapy and be like, Oh, well, look at that abandonment came slipping into my life again, you know, and just being able to have the tools and the support, to work through it. Because otherwise, you just kind of relive that trauma over and over again, you know, and I think about, you know, even my past romantic relationships and how, you know, even if I was in a relationship, I would still feel like emotionally abandoned or emotionally neglected. Or if I was anticipating kind of a big shift, I would leave the relationship before they left me kind of thing. And I say all this, because we all have that. I think we all have something like that in the military, we all have something that, you know, even if we are aware of it, and we've picked up the tools to work with that mental health situation, I want to say issue, you know, it'll still come up, it'll still creep its way into your life somehow. And so yeah, I just think it's extremely important to talk about and I do appreciate this conversation. Yeah, I

really appreciate Olivia bringing up like, the support for the family, you know, a conversation that was particularly difficult in my house. Before we all got help was, you know, one of us went to war. And therefore, that's where the issue lies. You know, one of the conversations we had in our house is like, Well, only one of us went divorce. So what's the matter with the rest of you like? And, you know, when we discuss military and veteran mental health, we often picture like the person that uniform Oh, they've come home with a signature wounds of post 911 conflict. Oh, it's TBI and in TBI and PTSD. But what happens is, I mean, in general, you just spoke to this, like, there's such an array of things that come from living this lifestyle, that honestly may have nothing to do with someone's time and war at all, or may also have everything to do with that. I mean, it's interesting when we moved to San Diego, some of my very first friends there, you know, were also military spouses, and they would discuss similar abandonment issues. And I thought, well, that is not my issue of like, I don't have abandonment issues. That's not what this life has left, you know, that's not the mark, it's left on me. What I do have is excessive anxiety. You know, that mostly comes from making sure I'm safe. And it's a different feeling than feeling abandoned. It's much more about, Do I have all the resources and all of the tools like, I often live from a very scarcity mindset, and I'm looking to, you know, are all the doors locked are all the windows closed, like, all of those things, because my experience as a family member of someone experiencing the signs and symptoms of PTSD was that things were not safe. And so that is the mark, that this lifestyle is left on me. And that's what I continue to have to work through in therapy and counseling. And I just, I appreciate the conversation we're having around. Everybody needing the care and concern and the support. Because everybody's reason for going is different. I mean, Jen, you've talked about abandonment. I mean, I think every time we talk about mental health, and like, that's the thing that I mean, you speak about that very openly. And I often talk about, you know, what it's like to be the person who saw the signs and the warning signs of PTSD. But at the end of the day, what both of you and I and Olivia needed was the support of someone in the mental health field who could help us work through those things that were, you know, triggering us in those different feelings.

I also want to say that, you know, you mentioned that it could be part of a deployment, or doesn't have to be or it's tied to the uniform. For me, it was all of it and none of it and some of it was yours, right? For me. It was triggered by my retirement process, layered by an unexpected divorce and oh, by the way, when I was unpacking all of it, it went all the way back to 2003. When I was a lieutenant and I was assaulted on an during a deployment, I was physically assaulted. by my NCO, and I, and I reported it, and the army basically, you know, it was a botched report, it was all kinds of stuff and nothing came of it right. And to protect myself. And just to put it all away, I basically forgot of that incident. Right. And like all kinds of things, to protect myself of that moment of the incident, of a shame and of guilt of everything that I felt, I flushed that moment, right, because he smashed my face, he almost broke my arm, and like all kinds of stuff, and I told myself, like, I wasn't worthy of conversation, because it wasn't a sexual assault, it was just an assault, you know, like all of these things, because of one reason or another. And so it took literally 20 years, to finally come to grips with all of these events, and all of these traumas to come to grips with trauma in my life, and the fact that I've been dealing with mental health for a very long time. So it's not just one singular event. That all sounds like, I have mental health now. Well, you know, sometimes it takes time, and there's layers to it. And the truth is that I needed help. And I didn't know I needed help. And like I said earlier, is that when I realized I needed help, there wasn't enough help out there. And that is what I want your listeners to really focus in on is that at the end of this conversation, is that that these communities need to work together to change the narrative. And that changes. How do we get more resources to the community? That is the end state, right. I hope that these stories, I hope, my story Jennylyn story, Jen, your story, all of it moves us in a way that the end state is more resources, that is my hope and wish.

Amen. I want to

go back to like just this plan that you had the plan to essentially take your life, and what was the turning point for you. And before I get into that, I'm going to read an ad. Let's just line up for a second. So real quickly, I want to go ahead and give a shout out to our sponsor us fed wealth and talk about holding down the fort sister podcast show the spouse benefit plan. It's no secret that there's a lot to plan for when the decision has been made to transition out of the military and asking the question, when are we going to get out? You now shift from the mentality of following orders to now taking an intentional active role to planning for post military life? But where do you even begin? holding down the fort sister podcast show the spouse benefit plan by us vet wealth focuses on helping career military families make intentional decisions before transition? Aside from answering the question, when are we going to get out? The most important decision being do we keep or opt out of the Survivor Benefit Plan? But before you could even answer that question, the first step to making this decision is understanding what the Survivor Benefit Plan protects, which is the military pension, check out the spouse benefit plans latest episode, episode three, titled here's what to say, the next time someone says thank you for your service, which has been written specifically to educate what the military pension is really about in relation to the service member and the military spouse. And here's a hint, the military pension is more than just a retired monthly pay that the veteran receives for the rest of their life. Listen to the show now by subscribing to the spouse benefit plan on your preferred podcasting platform. Or check out our show sponsor website us that wealth.com That's usvtwelth.com. All right, and we're back. So Olivia, you have been so transparent about this plan that you were going to essentially remove yourself as the problem. I'm sure we can get into more detail about it. What I'm most curious about, because obviously you're here, you're still here, and we're so grateful, you know, to be with you for you to tell the tale. What was that turning point for you? What was that moment where you're like,

I'm not going to do this.

I can't do this, or however you had that moment. And I really would love for you to be as detailed as you'd like. Just because I hope that anyone that is listening to this, if they are in that similar situation, maybe what you're about to share, may give them that reason to not take their life. And so would you care to share that story? Yeah, so

for me, there were a few things. So faith is my number one. And for me, faith is I am a follower of Christ. And my battles were fought on the knee in in that moment where I was like, I'm done, like,

I know, I

was actually at this desk, and I just, I didn't want to breathe anymore. I like my chest just hurt. I was like, I'm done like I, if I didn't take one more breath, I would be okay. And there was just something that was just said, Get on your knees. Just pray one more time. And I did. And I don't even remember what it was that I prayed for. I don't even remember if I necessarily prayed for another breath of life, I think it was just like, I just remember saying, I

hurt. You know,

I hurt. And I just wanted my life back. Right? I wanted my marriage. I wanted my life the way it was. And it was into me, it was beyond asking why it just, I hurt. And

the second part was, I got a phone call. And I believe that everything happens for a reason. And you have to have purpose. Right? You have to have purpose and direction. And that purpose came. That purpose was Why do you doing? Well,

I wasn't about to answer that.

I'd take my life, right. Because the truth is,

you know, I'm, I'm a public affairs officer. I'm on camera. I know how to turn it on. And it was just literally, what are you doing? And I didn't know how to answer that. And it was just nothing. But it was enough where they knew that it was a lie, right? Like, and they knew it. But they left it at that. And they're like, Okay, well, you figure out what you're doing. So I was at this desk, I had just prayed.

I felt shattered.

And I got a phone call. What are you doing? And it simply was, I didn't know how to answer it. And it wasn't a very long conversation. But when I hung up, it made me realize what the hell was I doing? It stopped me enough to realize, what was I doing? And it made me think about if I did go through with my plan. And if I had to answer that to somebody, how was I going to answer it? Then I made a phone call. And I called a friend. And I said, I need help. And I have called every single number. And everyone's telling me they can't help me. They're like, Okay, try this number. And I did. And I was able to talk to one counselor, and that counselor, just so happened. She used to work in the military community and understood how the military community system worked. Honestly, I don't even remember which nonprofit organization I ended up talking to, I was able to like get three free counseling calls, I think each an hour long. I talked to her for maybe 20 minutes. And like I said, she understood the military system enough. And I conveyed to her that I'm done. And I want to end it all. And she said, You need to go right now. She's like, where do you she happened to actually be in Virginia. And she said, You need to go to Fort Belvoir. And you need to go to behavioral health and do an emergency walk in. She's like, you need to tell them that you have suicide ideation. And you need to do a walk in. And she says, in fact, she's like, where do you live? And I told her where I lived. And she says, okay, she's like, how long does it take you to get there? So about 45 minutes, she said, Okay, I'm gonna time you. And you better call me back. Here's my personal number, because I call through an app. She says in 45 minutes, I better get a phone call. If not, I'm calling 911 on you. And you better tell me you're standing in line. So I called 45 minutes. And I told her, I'm standing in line, and I went to behavioral health. And I called and I said, I'm standing in line at behavioral health. And I told behavioral health exactly what she told me to take tell behavioral health at Fort Belvoir, suicide ideation, that at at wit's end, and that I was told by this counselor, this is who she is, this is what she used to do. And this is why I'm standing here. And at the time, I was still active duty. And because of that, they took me in that day, and I saw a counselor, and I was with that counselor for a couple months. And that's what began my journey with a certified counselor, and walking that walk and going through my healing process. But that's because I happened to talk to the right person at there. You know, it started with a prayer with a phone call that led to the next phone call. And, and because I was active duty, and I you know, and I said it was an emergency, but here's the thing, it worked for me on that day. That doesn't always work for everybody. Right. So that was a divine intervention. I fully believe that but again, the system is overtaxed right that I know. full well that that doesn't work for everybody. There are plenty of people that I know that have done the emergency that have won tucked in, and they're like, oh, we can't take you. And that's the point that I want to make sure that people understand that there's just not enough. And because we're in talking to that counselor when I was walking that talk with her, and and when I laid out to her, she's like, Okay, well, what do you mean, you have a plan? And I detailed the outline, I was like, well, here are my three ways, right? Like I said, Are we taught me how to be a great planner, at three courses of action, said, Here's course of action number one, here's the bus schedule. And this is the route and this is how I'm going to step in front of the bus, right? Oh, by the way, the bus will take me to the platform, right to get in front of the metro station. And the third one is I have a gun safe. The only reason why the gun safe stopped working is because my ex husband at the time, he had locked me out of the gun safe was a biometrics gun safe in he realized that I had suicide ideation and he had locked me out. It was a gun safe, that was biometric. And as well as a key, he took the key, so I couldn't open it by key, and it was biometric. And he removed my fingerprint. So I could no longer get by gun. And, honestly, the thought of a knife was a little too gory for me. So that was not an option. So for me, you know, stepping in front of a vehicle, like such as a bus or a metro for me was how I planned it and effectively looked at times, and how to do it, and figuring it all out. And for me, that's the fastest and easiest way, right? least painful. No, it's going to be done. For me, it was realizing that in that

moment, that people do love you. Because when you're hurting that bad, he don't think people do. Because you hurt so bad. And the truth is, they do. Because when you hurt so bad, and you think you're the problem, you think that you're such a burden to people, right that calling them or talking to them will take up so much of their time and their resource.

So you don't want to call them especially when you have such a hard head to personality like my. So I know looking back, that it was divine intervention. It made me stop and think what was I doing? But or even begin?

Genuine, you're usually the crier on the show. So I took it upon, decided to do it on your behalf. You're welcome. That's very beautiful. Olivia, and just thank you for sharing that I was really looking forward to this conversation because I knew it was going to be a real a real one. Not not that our past conversations weren't real, but very, like heartfelt and detailed. And I'm just so happy that you got to the point that you got to and despite how you were feeling you knew deep down that you were still very loved. And it makes me think, like in those moments when we feel we feel that strongly. I do you think it's those moments you're reminded how loved you are and and that you still matter, and they're still life for you. And it's going to be a good one, even if you don't know what it looks like. And that's the beauty of faith, I think, is trusting that, you know, God has different plans for you, maybe better plans. So all I could say is thank you, really for sharing your story. And I'm at a loss of words.

Well, thank you. And thanks for the opportunity share. And I and you know, on the back part of that is, you know, that was in that crucial moment at the very beginning of wanting to end it. And then in that healing journey, right on the backside of, okay, I'm not going to want to take my life, but it's still dark, right? It's still dark, it's still hurtful. And when you're still trying to figure out the process of who I am and what I'm going to do you know, that's still very painful. The second part of that journey was, I got a phone call, right from a very good friend of hey, Olivia, what are you doing? Yeah, I don't know. He's like, Let's have lunch. Okay, so I met up with him and we had lunch and he's like, telling me you know, so speed me up what's going on? And, and, you know, he knew that, you know, the divorce was going on and things weren't going well. And he's like, okay, so when are you going to start an LLC and I'm and I looked at him like,

What are you talking about Willis?

It's like, I need you to start an LLC because I got work for you. You do? Yeah. Livia? Like I've been waiting like you've been working you know you've been doing stuff when you are Lieutenant Colonel Soldier for Life. You've been you know, doing stuff with me with that, but I've been like, I need you to be like an LLC because I got work for you. You. Okay, after that lunch, I went and started an LLC. And from there, I became his ambassador. And that is why you've seen me on the face of Berbice. And I'm talking about Mr. Scott Davidson. He gave me task and purpose, right? He reminded me of my talent, and who I am and what I do. And really just like, put me on this path, right? He reminded me of like, what I was good at, right? I was like, I was floundering and lost. And like, in that one simple conversation at lunch, it wasn't like he like created me, right? That was That wasn't it? He just reminded me like Olivia, like, Come on, get your head out of the clouds like you are Olivia, none. This is what you're good at. And let me remind you, and I've got, I've got a mission for you. Right. And born from that, I like was just put on this path of like, Ah, I can see this, I get this. And from that was this new idea. This is where Olivia 2.0 started to be. This is the creation the idea. And this is where I in the storm was really birth from right. This coming from surviving, have I of wanting to end it all of understanding mental health, recreating who I was, and understanding that people love you, specifically love me, right. And I've shared this on my post. I've shared this in other ways that when I say that I am truly grateful for the team that I have. And specifically for Scott, like, I can't say that enough. Because it was truly at the right time. Because if it wasn't for that, I don't know if I would still be here, right? Yes, I came through on that one side. But this put me on that path to keep going. And that's I think the part of what people really need to continue on their healing journey is that it's a growing, evolving journey for each one of us. Right? And I'm sure Jen, you know, that like it doesn't end, right. It's not something that you like, Okay, I've mental health. And I saw doc for it, right? It grows and it shifts in, never goes away. And I am truly grateful for the community that surrounds me, and just to be able to share

it. Yeah, keyword. Community is what Jenny Lynn and I love. Yeah, that's what we love talking about. And we, you know, we value community building through these types of conversations. And part of being in community is feeling needed is knowing that you are needed. And more than that you are needed, you are valued, you are loved. And, you know, shout out to Scott, not my husband, but your Scott. You know, for that opportunity. And you know, for where you are today to tell the tale.

Oh, man, I will You took my word. It's a word. No kidding. I definitely was going to call it the community peace. But that but, you know, bringing it all back to the beginning where we were discussing like, how Olivia, like, you've been in public affairs for 20 years, and you've been working in social media, you know, for the past decade plus, and being you want to be authentic online, so that when people see you in person, you are the person that they envisioned you to be. It reminded me of something. And I don't know if I heard this at church or you know, from Brene Brown. But the idea of like, your story, being a house and like some people you let onto the front porch, and some people you let into the den, and some people like you let into the bedroom, not in a weird way, just in like, an intimacy level way. And I think today, you really let us like sit in your den, and like, listen, and I am so grateful for that. You know, I think this conversation, it meant a lot to me. And I appreciate you letting us in past the front porch to hear, you know, some of the harder details to say, but that authentic authenticity, you know, it's something I strive to do also on social media, that what you see is what you're gonna get and also knowing that like, there are levels like Jen knows more about how my day went simply because we're co workers and we meet before we meet before the meeting, you know, then the guest we have but also like if you were to see me on the street like Olivia, I mean it. I'd give you a hug because you've shared so much Have your life with us. And I just appreciate your time and your your authenticity there.

Oh, thank you appreciate that. Ah,

well, on that note. So, Olivia, as we know, you host the podcast, never stopped serving podcast series from Iowa. And I thought I'd ask you at this point in your life right now, what has never stopped serving mean for you?

I think really, for me, it's giving back. It's, you know, I say this a lot in my post is that my heart remains with the military community. And I think for me, the most slogan is just that, that you just never stopped serving. When you take off that uniform, you still give back in whatever capacity, it doesn't mean that you necessarily need to like, you know, join and, you know, go stand on the corner, and you know, toot your horn, it can be giving back in whatever way best makes sense for you. You know, I would love for your listeners to find out more about Moa. And to join, right, you can join more for free, you know, that's an entry level, and then you can, there's obviously tiers to that membership. But at a minimum, find out more about more if you don't know about MMA, but you don't get involved in the tribes that make sense to you. Right, but talking about community, like mindedness, you know, and then also get involved in organizations that aren't like minded with you, you know, stretch your thinking, stretch your thinking in ways that you never have thought before, to grow in that aspect. Right? learn about different cultures learn about different ways, because that makes you a better well rounded person and everything from religion to culture, to even politics, you know, oh, gasps You know,

it's always a fun topic.

Exactly. But, you know, to me, that's what never stopped it serving is it's give back to the community, everything from the community, literally, in your community, where your house sits your community, when you talk about faith based community to, you know, the uniform, right? How do we make the space better for you, for me, for our children. And that's what I truly love about working for Mozilla, on the ability of storytelling, of being able to podcast to find organizations that do that, to be able to have conversations with organizations like yours, right to be able to come on to your podcast to go into another podcast, invite you guys onto most podcast, because that's how you do it. Right, one story at a time.

Yeah. And what you shared, it also reminds me of when you're grateful for your life, and you're grateful for where you are today. A great way to show that gratitude is to give is to give back. And I imagine that everything you're doing today, Olivia is very gratifying for you. I imagine that it is it is also part of your continual self healing process, you know, to work through everything you went through just recently. So, you know, thank you for being here. Thank you for recognizing how loved you are. I know we all just met but hold another fort loves you. And yeah, just thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here to tell the tale because it is so deeply appreciated. And I bet our listeners will get a lot out of this conversation.

No, thank you. I appreciate just the chance to be able to come on here and share about Malala and, you know, it's it's a healing process for me every time that I can share I hope that you know your listeners get something out of it that if they didn't know about Moe, they know something more about Mone are excited to learn about it but more so that for me what I love the most is when I get a note saying that you've inspired me to share my story that to me is the greatest gift you know everything from you know on my own personal Instagram page I Cheryl I'm a peloton I'm a huge advocate of peloton I've I've owned peloton for life like seven eight years is inside share like little snippets of me on the peloton is like, I'll get stories of like, you know, thanks for motivating me to get up my button, go do something. And so if this gets somebody to share their story to help them in their healing process that makes my day, right. Because the healing journey starts the moment that you open your mouth and say, I need help. Because trust me, that was the hardest part of the journey. Just opening my mouth and saying I need help. The Hardest Words to say the rest I promise

you is the easier part. Asking for help was literally the hardest part. Literally the hardest part. Wonderful. Yeah.

Thanks, Olivia. I really appreciate having you on. Let us know As we wrap up here, how you want people to get a hold of you, or if they want to learn more about MOA, how can they do that?

So most got a website. It's MOA dot orgy. And you can find out all kinds of great information there. I have my own handle. You can find me on Instagram. My handle is RCR princess. I'm also on LinkedIn at Olivia Nunn. And you can also find me on Facebook as well. So we'd love to be able to connect with your listeners there and check us out. Awesome. Well,

Olivia, thank you so much and of course to our listeners. If you want to reach out to Olivia and learn more about Moa. We'll have that in the show notes for you. With that said, thank you all so much for joining us and we'll chat with you in the next episode. Tune in next time