This episode features an engaging conversation with Wax On and his guest DJ Hudson, who share insights about their experiences in the world of DJing and music culture. They discuss the evolution of DJing, from the challenges of lugging around vinyl records to the convenience of digital setups like Serato. The conversation touches on the importance of community and mentorship within the DJ scene, highlighting how personal connections can lead to opportunities and growth. They also reflect on the impact of notable record shops and influential figures in their musical journeys, emphasizing the significance of sharing knowledge and music. With anecdotes about memorable gigs and the intricacies of curating a set, this episode offers a rich exploration of the art of DJing and the camaraderie it fosters among artists.

Reaching the milestone of 50 episodes, the Once A DJ podcast presents an engaging discussion between Wax on and his DJ Hudson, whose influence on Hudson's DJing journey is both profound and personal. The episode opens with a nostalgic recollection of their early musical experiences in Leicester, where they were surrounded by a wealth of genres, thanks to their extensive family backgrounds. The guest's stories of growing up with an eclectic mix of records set the tone for a conversation rich in shared memories and musical history, laying the groundwork for the exploration of the evolution of DJing.

As they reminisce, the two delve into the complexities and challenges of the DJing profession, discussing the transition from traditional vinyl to digital platforms like Serato. Hudson candidly shares his struggles with confidence during performances, often leaning on his guest for support in moments of self-doubt. This candid exchange highlights the importance of mentorship and community in the DJ world, reinforcing that the journey is often filled with ups and downs. The guest reflects on their own experiences of navigating the music scene, including memorable gigs, the vibrant Derby nightlife, and the nuances of performing at weddings, where balancing crowd favorites with personal expression becomes crucial.

The conversation takes a contemporary turn as they assess the current state of DJing, particularly in relation to social media's impact on the craft. They discuss the need for authenticity and genuine connection in an increasingly performative landscape, where DJs often feel the pressure to present a certain image. The episode concludes with a powerful message about the essence of DJing as a lifelong journey of exploration, creativity, and connection, encouraging listeners to embrace their individuality and passion for music, regardless of the evolving trends in the industry.

Takeaways:

• This episode celebrates the 50th episode milestone of the Once A DJ podcast, marking a significant achievement.
• DJing is a labor of love, with artists balancing personal passion and audience enjoyment.
• Understanding music history and sampling enhances a DJ's performance and connection with audiences.
• The evolution of DJing technology, like Serato, has transformed how DJs prepare sets.
• Mentorship plays a crucial role in a DJ's development, influencing their style and approach.
• Collective environments, such as cooperative radio stations, foster community and creativity among DJs.

Links referenced in this episode:

• love.willsavetheday.fm
• discogs.com

Mentioned in this episode:

Reissued classics from Be With Records

Get 10% off at bewithrecords.com using the code ONCEADJ

Right.

DJ Hudson.

Hello.

Episode number 50.

Oh, wow.

It's a big deal.

Yeah, yeah.

That half century.

Yes, Big deal in my world.

Welcome to the Once A DJ podcast.

Well, thanks for having me on board.

How you doing?

Yeah, really good.

Really good.

Excellent.

So when I spoke to Kelly and said that I was having you on, she was like, kelly being my partner, for anyone who doesn't know, she was like, oh, yeah.

Make sure you mention how much of a mentor it was to you, because when we first started seeing each other, you told me that.

So she's got a good memory.

Yeah, I'd forgotten that, but it is true.

So it's really nice to get you on for this episode and I think it'll be nice to discuss things in a way that's a bit different because I know you through DJing in a different way.

You know, the amount of hours I've probably spent talking to you about DJs, DJing.

Sure.

You know, you're the person.

If I go out somewhere and I have a DJ in crisis of confidence, you're the one I text going, ah, no one's dancing.

What am I gonna do?

And you're very reassuring and stuff.

So we'll get onto where I met you sort of down the line.

So.

But if you want to start with your humble beginnings in Leicester.

Okay.

Well, I suppose how it starts for me as well.

From a very young age, I was just around a lot of music.

Mum and dad had a lot of records.

I've got a lot of aunts and uncles.

I think I've got 28 aunts and uncles and they've all got ridiculous record collections, all in.

In different genres as well, which is good for me.

And I was just crazy about it.

So from like the age of two, I was just into it.

I could tell you now what was in their record collection.

But so from that it just, you know, I was into music.

Music, music.

What, in their record collections, then that would still stand up?

Depends on who you pick.

So I've, you know, so my aunt Nesta, for instance, she had basically mainly 7 inches and it was all 70s, 80s pop and disco.

So any sort of pop disco at that time, or even like, you know, Blondie and things like that.

She had all that.

And then I have another aunt, my aunt Claire, she had a lot of.

She had a lot of those Topper Pops albums, you know, those cheap compilations.

But she was.

Had a lot of reggae and a lot of like calypso and stuff like that.

Then my cousin Claire, she had a lot of 80s.

Well, it was just sold because it was actually 80s at the time.

So you, Steve Harrington, Slave, SOS, Band, DeBarge, all of that stuff.

And it could just go on and on.

There was one, I had one cousin whose dad.

I couldn't touch his record collection.

He had all cti, all imports, Roy Heirs.

And I'd see it from a distance.

He'd play them whenever you went around there.

But it's like I couldn't touch his records.

And at the time I wasn't really into that.

You know, this is like the 80s.

You know, I'm.

I'm into electro or whatever at that point.

But yeah, he had all that records that no one else had at that point.

So what was the influence things?

I know hip hop's obviously a big one.

What was.

What was going on in Leicester at the.

In the 80s?

In the 80s, I think, you know, it's the same.

I think for that era, you were exposed to all music.

Everything had an equal kind of playing field in the sense that, you know, when I was young, you'd see hip hop on tv, you know, in small doses, on things like the Tube or even Top of the Pops.

You know, you'd see, you know, Break Machine and you know, Jeffrey Daniels doing the, the body popping and all that kind of stuff.

So you'd see that Herbie Hancock.

But, you know, you'd have that amongst, you know, because I was watching every music program at the time.

So, you know, you're watching program, you're exposed to things like, I know, echoing the Bunny Men or whatever, and you just.

I would just soak it all up.

But I think in Leicester at that time there was, you know, there's a good funk scene there.

There was, you know, a lot of live funk bands and stuff and a lot of club nights and all that kind of thing, which obviously I was too young to go to, but my older cousins and aunts would be going to that kind of thing.

So I'd hear about that and you know, they'd say, oh yeah, we've been to this night.

They were playing like not just knee deep or something at some rare groove night.

There was, you know, that late 80s, that rare groove scene was big.

Yeah, so it was that kind of thing.

I think there was a lot of everything, but there was also all the indie stuff going on.

And yeah, you kind of.

Because, you know, you have.

The place where I went to school and grew up in was more of a white, working class area.

So more people are into more of your Indie rock or rave than the hip hop stuff.

So I was just exposed to everything at school, you know, whatever they listed, if it's for Ghazi or something or Minor Threat and stuff like that.

And then I'll just.

Yeah, be soaking all that kind of stuff up too.

Yeah.

So just going back to your family then?

Yeah, because it was such a big family.

Was.

Was there kind of people of sort of all ages?

Yes.

So like my youngest aunt is only, I think she's only eight years older than me.

So yeah, in effect and I spent a lot of time with her.

So when she was like at school age and buying Smash it, you know, I would have been like five or six or something.

Yeah, so I was, you know, exposed to a lot of that and then.

Yeah, so there's a wide range, I suppose you've got people of my parents age and then you got people that were almost like the similar issue, some of my older cousins.

So yeah, big wide age range.

At the same time I didn't know all my answer because they're all over the world and living in different places and all that kind of thing.

But yeah, it'd be quite nice if.

You can get that kind of gradual.

Definitely sort of thing.

So when was DJing on your radar again?

Pretty early on.

I was thinking about this earlier is the first.

My mum worked at a hospital and there's a, like hospital radio and she wangled it for me to go on and do a radio show on hospital radio.

And I must have been about 6, 7 years old.

And if I've got a vague memory of it just being just underwhelming, I basically, I thought, oh yeah, I'll go in, I'll be able to pick what records I like.

And at that point, you know, I knew my record, you know, I'll be picking, you know, basically what I was exposed to, whether it was all the soul and stuff, but I didn't get to pick anything.

And it was just a bit underwhelming.

But there was that.

Her eldest son was DJing out there, so she had all like Run the MC, soccer, MCS, Love Bug, Star Ski and all that kind of stuff.

So that was my first time actually having a guy and I didn't try to mix or anything.

It was just literally being able to put a song on and then blend the next one in.

That felt like, wow, just using a crossfader and stuff.

So, yeah, that was probably my first time.

But then after that it was around 91, 92 when actually started properly learning to beat, match and order DJ stuff.

What was it like?

Was that like a community thing or what?

It was actually my cousin's boyfriend at the time, he had like a.

He was part of a reggae sound system in Birmingham and after a show he left all his decks and PA stuff at my house and it was like middle of the night.

I was like, right now I'm going to set it up in my room and I'm just going to just figure it out.

This is like what I've been wanting to do for a long time.

Let's just figure it out.

And just spent played, you know, played on it all night.

And the decks were these decks called Lads London Acoustic Development.

Right.

I don't know if you've heard of those.

They were blue and the pitch was rotary rather than a sliding fader thing.

Yes.

Yeah.

So Eddie's then?

Yeah, that's what I.

That's what I learned.

I spent that whole night, stayed up for like three or four hours thinking about Beat Match.

And then when I did, I just thought, that's it.

Went to bed, woke up a dj.

Yeah, that's it.

So where'd you go from there then?

So you've, you've.

You've got this commitment so, you know, it's something you want to be doing.

How long do you then have to wait before you kind of, I think, what into it properly?

It was.

I think the whole thing with me has been.

It's all been very organic.

So it was a case of I just wanted to do it at home, wasn't thinking about going and playing records anywhere.

There'd be, you know, parties for family that you'd do and, you know, you'd have like your 50 records that you've got in your collection or whatever, and you use those and probably playing things twice, three times.

But after I got my own decks, a pair of belt drives, like you do.

There was a friend of mine at school and he was really into it, but didn't have decks.

So we.

He was like, right, let's go play at the local pub, which was a pub called a Thomas Cook Been knocked Down.

It was a rough pub anyway.

Yeah, we went there and he was playing Rave.

I was playing like some hip hop and stuff.

It was a complete mishmash.

It was just basically our friends that were there.

But, yeah, that was like the first thing I did.

And then after that, it was kind of a thing.

Like, if you were at a house party, you'd be like, oh, can I just come on and jump on for like 20 minutes and do that?

And not even have your own record.

You use their records or something like that.

So I did a lot of that.

People all right with that then?

Yeah, it seems so.

No, I never.

No one ever turned around and said, oh, no, you haven't got any.

You know, everyone was just sort of fine with it.

If it was me in that situation, I'd be terrified that they'd do a better job than me with my own records.

It's like even worse.

Yeah, yeah.

No, there was.

There was always.

Everyone was always kind of open to it.

I don't know if it was maybe because I was a touch younger than they were.

I would have been about 16 at that point.

So I don't know.

And it would just.

Literally just be like 15, 20 minutes.

They'd be just like, okay, just do it and just go away.

I think I'd be the same.

If someone came up to me, I'd be like, no, you're not touching my records.

Yeah.

It's different things now though, isn't it?

Because, like, maybe not back then, but, you know, records used to be a couple of quid.

True.

And they're not anymore.

So you are like, you want to play my 20 quid?

12?

Are you kidding?

Yeah, yeah.

You're not gonna be pulling out the rares.

Yeah, not at all.

So when did.

When did.

Did you start DJing properly in Leicester?

It was more in Derby.

I'd started doing bits and bobs, but nothing regular.

It was just one offs more just sort of like, say there was a few more house parties where you.

Because when.

When you get the setup, then it's sort of all your friends like, oh, yeah, come around, bring your decks around.

And then it'd be like, he's just doing those kind of things.

But once I came to Derby for university, doing a few things through the student union.

Before that, the first thing I did actually was I used to do Tuesday nights at the Vines.

And it'd be like early doors, I think nine till 10.

They just sort of like, just come in and play for a bit.

So were you approaching people?

Did you kind of go out there and.

No, I mean, with that one, there was A friend of mine, she worked there and done a mixtape for her or something and she just said oh yeah, I know this guy.

And she got me in there and I did that for like a summer or something.

So what year would this have been?

That would have been 96.

Because back at this point and we've been through it with a couple of people on here.

Derby was quite a well respected city in terms of the club culture of the country.

Really wasn't.

Yeah, absolutely.

Things like progress and renaissance.

Yeah, yeah it was, it was a vibrant scene where you know, saying it's a Tuesday night but it was busy every night in Derby.

You know, you could go there with something on whether it was clubs, live musics or just the bar scene was good at that point.

So yeah, it was.

You play into a full room or full building as it was with that place.

It's two floors in the outdoors as well.

So yeah, it was a big deal.

It felt like, you know, but it was good to do it and just not feel the pressure of it being peak time.

That's something that I kind of identify with now.

We were on about a gig earlier that I'm going to be doing where I'd rather be warming up than closing because it's like.

Yeah, it's all there for you to lose when you're closing.

Yeah, when you're warming up it's just you're creating the vibe, you know.

Totally.

I do like that.

I mean, I suppose with what, you know, what I've become accustomed to is basically these sort of long five, six hour sets now over the years is what pretty much what I've always done.

I like kind of being my own warm up to just keep that sort of tension there, to just build up gradually.

Start off slow, maybe for the first 20 minutes, just play for your records, not even mix.

Just climatize myself to the situation.

Yeah.

And then you're just gradually building up and trying to just hold off it to be.

Especially if it's going to be a late night affair, hold off it to be peak and just.

You just control the tension.

The ebb and flow of the energy.

In the room really.

And I think that's a really good thing to do.

The tension is an interesting way to put it coming to Derby.

So was the music scene any factor in your coming here?

It was actually.

So before I came to Derby, me and my friends that, you know, I was at school and college with, we'd come over to Derby to come out because we used to come over to the dial.

It's always good music on the dial.

We used to come over to Progress and to the Holy Trinity, which became Union 2 and all that kind of thing.

There was this good club nights here, so we would, you know, drive over and do that.

And we're doing that for like two or three years beforehand.

So that was a big, big factor in the decision to come here for university, really, which isn't the.

Probably the best way to go about it, but, you know.

Did you get a grant?

Yes.

Don't matter then.

I didn't get a full grant, actually, but, yeah, I got a grant.

Yeah.

Yeah, you see, I was just the wrong side of the.

The grant system if you got a grant.

Yeah.

As long as you're having a good time, that's what matters.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, I think the social aspect as well as Derby was just.

It was good and.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

There was just things going on, it seemed.

There's always something to go to.

So when you came, was there an.

A kind of ambition to ingratiate yourself into the communities of certain knights or.

Not at all.

I think, in fact, I didn't even bring my decks and records when I.

When I came here initially.

I actually ended up going back for them.

It just felt like actually I should bring them up.

I thought, no, there'll be a distraction.

So I didn't.

I'd left them at home.

I left him in Leicester.

So, no, it wasn't on my radar at all.

It was only the.

I think the DJing in Derby while I was a student, picked up from the student competitions, they did these student DJ competitions and getting involved in that and you actually meeting other DJs.

I didn't really know other D in that first year or a year and a half.

I didn't really mix with any other DJs in Derby.

Yeah, because isn't that where you met J Squared?

That's right, yeah.

And you were.

You doing.

You were doing drum and bass?

I was doing.

I was in the.

In.

I was in a.

What was the category called?

But it was basically a bit of everything because I played.

I didn't play any drum bass, but I think I played basically like trip hop, big beat, bit of hip hop.

It was a mixture and I can't remember what the category.

It was like.

Open Farm.

Yeah, it'd be open.

It was like miscellaneous, basically.

It's probably a good category to be in because I think the other people in that category were a bit more sort of, you know, left field.

Let's say maybe couldn't mix.

Yeah, exactly.

I think that, yeah, that probably is an advantage, isn't it?

I mean, because you do get in competitions, you do get a big range of skills.

That's right.

And at that point in time with that competition, there was a lot of.

House was a massive thing in Derby at that point, obviously, with the progress history and the renaissance and all that kind of stuff, it was.

Yeah, that was a big deal.

And the jump and the drum bass was as well.

So those, those categories had a lot of entrance, a lot of people going for it, you know, Whereas my category, not so much.

So.

Yeah.

I mean, at that point hip hop wasn't so.

So highlighted, you know, it wasn't a thing that there wasn't many hip hop things to go to.

Hardly any really, at that point.

Yeah, I suppose.

Do you think it was like the late 90s where hip hop sort of kicked off a bit more mass market?

I think so.

You know, Scratch Breaking Bread, no Faking the.

And there was compilations that went with this as well.

There was that source and also that.

Just a whole indie rap scene that came out of sort of Jurassic 5 that I think especially caught on with a student audience.

And that basically was a.

Just enabled people to think, oh, okay, we can play some 90s hip hop along with that and some of the newer sorts of underground stuff.

And yeah, I think that was the catalyst really.

You could market it to people who weren't massively into hip hop in a big way, but they'll.

They'll go to the nights and enjoy it.

They'll know the songs, you know, it was a bit more in the mainstream.

Yeah.

So what interactions and sort of connections did you get with those sort of bigger nights in the city?

In what way?

And sort of like with sort of developing, sort of getting in sort of bar gigs and stuff like that.

Yeah.

So getting into sort of say, doing sort of like back rooms at things.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I think the big one, the big cast is so coming out of that student competition that got me like a relationship with people at the student union and they ran all the bars at that point.

So they were like, okay, come do a Monday night here, come do a Thursday night here.

And from that you sort of getting known because people are Coming every week and whatnot.

And they've seen you DJ there and it's like, okay, yeah, you can do start doing this, that and the other.

I think the big catalyst after that for me was doing technique, which was a sort of hip hop funk soul night in one room and drum and bass in the other and playing at that every month.

I think that was, you know, I was doing the funk room funk hip hop.

Yeah, drum and bass was the main drum.

Bass was the main.

Would say the main draw.

You'd have say like a, you know, you might have Peche in one room and Mr.

Scuff in the other.

That was kind of the caliber of the line.

So big names and stuff.

You know, this is like 98, 99.

That was D Boy, right?

Yeah, D Boy, John P.

Yeah, big shot and Bob as well.

And yeah, that was, you know, it was a popular night and it was just a good thing to be part of.

You know, being able to share the bill with those kind of caliber names enabled you to get on like mailing list for free records and all that kind of thing.

Yeah, you know, absolutely ideal.

So that was basically from that we were able to sort of occasionally do the bat Room at Progress or something or you know, other places and you know, doing gigs at other places and then, you know, coming after that was the off the hook situation.

Yeah.

And which just led to more of the same really.

We started going, you know, you could start going to like all the hip hop nights and say, oh yeah, we'll come play yours, you can play ours, that kind of thing.

And you just start getting known like that.

Was there any particular ones you did around that time that were elsewhere, that were.

That were really good sort of gigs?

Breaking Breadwin, we did a few with them that were always good, you know, to be able to play with them.

Southern Hospitality used to do a night and it was.

I think he did it for a short while, but it was called From Pyramids to Projects and yeah, just a small scale thing.

But again, grateful, I think all of them in a way.

Just because we kind of would we say like, right, we're going on a road trip.

That was kind of the.

The sort of phrase and it was just always we'd go to some other city, record shopping, clothes shopping, whatever, trainer shopping and then go dj and he's just like, yeah, what a great way to spend your existence.

Yeah, at that point in time.

So yeah, they're all good.

You know, we had some great times in Bristol actually.

I'm thinking is probably I don't even know what the name of the club was, but we were playing with Roots Maneuver and yeah, just such a great night, massive club.

And yeah, I think with those kind of things, I would not really think about the enormity of it until well long afterwards.

I just go and do it.

I'm just like, yeah, we're just doing this thing.

Then after you think.

Actually, yeah, that was kind of a big scale thing to be doing, you know.

Yeah, you know, so with off the.

Hook then, that was kind of where I know you from.

So can you tell me a bit more about those nights and.

And the sort of experiences you had there?

Yeah, sure.

To be a really.

A really strong brand at the time, that was doing a lot in Derby and bringing in some pretty big acts as well.

Yeah, again, I think, bit off the hook.

Perfect timing, really.

Like there was, you know, a few of the nights around the country doing it, but there wasn't lots of them.

And I think it's funny, the.

The thing I attribute some of the popularity of off the Hook is that there were the.

I think they just were, at that particular point really popular.

They were just a compilation of, oh, yeah, hip hop sort of like go to, you know, whether it's Rob Bass or whether it's Mop or whatever, that sort of range just, you know, you tried and tested favorites and I think we were able to capitalize on that.

You know, we were marketing off the Hook to a, I suppose an audience that are not exactly, oh, favorite hip hop.

But if you basically convince them, oh yeah, this group that you've never heard of, they're going to be all right.

And, you know, it's only.

It's only 2 pound or something with us.

You got come along and, you know, and they're coming, they're having a brilliant night because it's.

Yeah, it's club night and it's a dj, but there's also actual live music.

So that was a bit of a draw.

So.

Yeah, it was.

And I suppose I should talk about, you know, with off the Hook, you had Dave H and Gidge and J Squared, who you've had on before.

And I think with those three, you had a perfect combination of what, how to run a night.

Dave had a magazine, it was a graphic designer, so he was able to do artwork and promote it in this listings magazine that basically everyone was reading at the time.

Yeah, Gidu was just like the social butterfly.

Man, about time.

Man about time.

Everyone loves Gidge.

Absolutely beautiful human being.

And you got J Squared is just that guy who will get things sorted, he'll make those connections.

So between the three of them, it's just a.

Yeah, it's a perfect alchemy.

So I think, you know, and then you had people like me and Beatmaster and BFG that were in the background and, you know, they would go up and put posters up in takeaways and whatnot, all that kind of stuff.

Be your foot soldiers.

And you need a street team.

Yeah, that's it, basically.

Street team.

You know, I wasn't involved in that in the sort of upper echelons part of it.

Upper echelons, like there's some kind of hierarchy.

But I wasn't involved in that at the start.

It was just kind of.

I wasn't even DJing in those first few ones.

But yeah, just being sort of involved and being part and witnessing it, I think it was just.

Yeah, it was a great time.

And then, you know, you get to, you know, well, one see all these great acts, you know, whether they were like Souls of Mischief or whoever it may be, or whether it was like your Rodney Peas and Blades and Jests and, you know, the.

All the top people of the UK hip hop scene at the time.

Yeah.

Do you think the guys had a good knack for booking?

Because, like, hip hop's a hard one to.

You can't book every rapper and be confident they're going to do a good live show.

I think doing a good live hip hop show is a skill in itself, isn't it?

Maybe, I would say more so than like bands.

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, there's this.

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think, you know, I don't feel like I've saw anyone do a bad show.

I feel like.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the who we had for shows was, you know, availability.

Who had played in neighboring city.

If, you know, if someone had played at Nottingham the week before or the weekend or maybe the day before or the day after, you know, that, well, they're probably not going to come to the derby one because, you know, you'd have people traveling for it.

So you took a lot of those things were a factor.

But I think the main thing was because it was just more of a labor of love, that it was just about who we wanted to see that got booked, you know, that, you know, obviously it's a sort of equation, who's available, who do we really like, who's affordable and all that kind of thing, the mechanics of it.

But yeah, I think those are the.

The factors.

And I don't feel like I ever saw anyone be like, oh, yeah, they were a bit off it.

Yeah.

So that's.

Yeah, it's.

Yeah, I've never thought of any because, you know, I.

Yeah, I'm sure there's so many horror stories about bad hip hop shows.

Yeah.

And yeah, I don't feel like we had one.

Well, I mean, there's some people where it's like, who's going to turn up?

Who is it behind the mask, all that sort of thing.

Oh, completely, yes.

And I suppose we never had anyone, you know, we never had a woo.

We never had put the Wu Tang Clan in sort of.

And ended up with like, you got.

Or something.

Nothing against you.

God.

But you know, you hear stories about it though, don't you?

Yeah, absolutely.

And.

But that would be a story in itself, as, you know, I suppose the one thing, though, our one thing was Slum Village canceling.

We had Slum Village booked for the second birthday.

Right.

And yeah, they didn't.

Is that after Fantastic Two?

Yeah, because there's so many.

Like, I only got Fantastic Two recently to like take out and DJ with, but I was like, there's quite a few good tunes in it for DJing out.

Oh, definitely.

But I would say probably more than your average hip hop album.

It's got a lot more, I guess, like club ness to it.

Yes, definitely.

There's a few things on there that are actually, you know, you think you can.

You can easily sit them in, say like a bar set.

There's anything, you know, they'll just work or something, you know, fit into almost like a R B, neo soul kind of edge to it as well.

It's a good album.

It's a great album.

Yeah.

So we're getting about to the point where I first was aware of you and first met you.

So I remember Charlo and Steve putting on their homegrown nights at the Five Lamps.

That's right, Gordon and Amit's place.

And I think it was.

Charlie was like, oh, we've got Hudson.

It's a big deal.

He's like, he's the man or whatever.

Really big.

He was like, whoa.

And this is when I was just starting DJing.

So I'd go out and like be putting my hand on.

On the needle to put it onto the record and still shaking.

It was like that, that era and sort of meeting you down at that.

And then I started spending a bit of time with you to.

You did.

I guess you did.

Like, yeah.

Mentor is probably quite a good way of putting it, really.

Like, I've learned a lot from you and I think in those early days of seeing you, it was when I was.

I decided I was going to do a mix and put it into shop.

So I try, like, I'm quite idealistic like that.

It's like, yeah, you know, why not?

Yeah.

So I did that.

I remember you giving me like the sort of mailing list contacts effectively and stuff, and ringing Mr.

Scruff going, oh.

Have you got my CD?

And him being like, I've got loads of CDs.

I'm like, all right, thanks.

It was that dead nice.

Like, I spoke to Yoda.

It was really nice stuff.

But beyond that, I think we.

You'd burnt.

Like, this was in the days when we were still burning CDs.

And you burnt me a lot of CDs.

And I learned a lot about Paul.

Nice.

Rest in peace, Muro that Sloppy White Y Sloppy White.

Yes.

Yeah.

All these sort of mixtape dons.

Con men.

Yeah, all these sorts of people.

And I think without meeting you, I would have been oblivious to all that.

And like that level of mixtape production.

Sure.

I mean, that was definitely the mixtape era, wasn't it?

You know, we were dabbling part of off the hook.

That was another thing that we were dabbling in at that time as well.

Yeah.

And, you know, it was a good time for that, I think.

People spending time crafting these, you know.

Yeah.

Intricate CDs, intricate mixes.

Yeah.

You guys did quite a few, didn't you?

Yeah.

So the first one we did, it's funny because we did it, I think we took about maybe a week, two weeks, but we did it as a tape.

It was actually a cassette.

And I remember doing it thinking, oh, no one will be wanting to.

You know, this will just be for us to listen to.

But, you know, we managed to get to a place like Mr.

Bongos and, you know, all your shops and, you know, at the time there was a lot of mail order and, you know, just everyone.

It makes you think everyone is kind of just a normal human being.

If you just contact.

Lucky you just saying contact him is Scorpion Yoda and whatnot.

You contact him and be like, oh, yeah, I'll stock it or, yeah, I'll listen to it, or, oh, you know, I'll get to it at some point.

You know, no one's.

No one's a monster.

Yeah.

And like, everyone's got this shared love for this thing, haven't they?

Totally.

There's just probably a question being a little bit precious about your time because it's like I've only got so much time in the day.

If I'm gonna listen to something, I want to kind of make sure as much as I can that it's gonna be worth.

Oh, absolutely.

Worth the time.

But I think as well with doing things like that, like, I remember when I put that first mixer, I like, I literally got it into.

Got it in a shop in Huddersfield, got it in Fat City.

Probably sold it on MySpace.

Okay.

Gave a couple of copies away as a competition on MySpace in this, like desperate attempt to get some.

Were they followers or friends?

Yes, in a desperate time to get some friends.

Shout out to Tom.

Oh yeah, everyone's best friend.

But I like that it taught me about sale or return and it made you think about the numbers.

Yeah.

Look at printing and production and stuff like that.

Like just following these different avenues around your passion.

You just learn so much from it.

Oh, absolutely.

It's, you know, it's.

Again, if you can break even on it, that's.

I see that as a massive success, you know, but if it's.

If you able to just take the hit, even if it's just giving them out as a thing, like a thought, this is me almost like a business card.

It was really good for that kind of thing.

Yeah.

Because, I mean, your day job, for anyone that doesn't know, is graphic design.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

So like in that era, were you developing your graphic design skills through the artwork to the CDs?

Yes.

Not for.

Not for the ones that I did do, a couple of ones for the off, like in the Off Talk era.

But the first one I actually did was for Gonna Stein, friend of J.

Squared's Brighton guy, Right.

Yes.

One of my all time favorite DJs.

I think he's just completely unique.

And he did a mix called the Crate Snake.

This is.

And I.

It's funny looking back.

I did his.

I did it.

I think I did his artwork totally in Photoshop.

Didn't know what I was doing.

Ridiculous.

The font, font choices and all this kind of stuff.

It's mad.

But the actual cover was good.

It was basically.

It looked like a 12 inch, but the label was like loads of hip hop 12 labels.

Like Wild Pitch Cold, Chilling, all spliced together.

And he was getting reviews for this because the CD was it's incredible mix cd and he was getting good reviews for like your magazines, like Hip Hop Connection, Big Daddy magazine and all that kind of thing.

But they'd always mentioned the artwork as well.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So.

But that was like my first kind of sort of proper sort of bit of design work really.

I've done the odd fly here and there and I was working in marketing at the time for a dating company website and I was doing a bit of graphic design, animated GIFs basically.

And.

But yeah, this was the first sort of big.

Felt like big meaty projects.

I was kind of like, wow.

And it actually, you know, did the work I think I've got gonna start and gave me about 10, 7 inches for that, which I think is actually a good.

A good deal.

Load it.

That's about 150 quid in today's money.

Well, yeah, yeah, it was.

Yeah, good haul.

So.

Yeah, it was.

But yeah, that was definitely a sort of led me on that design path in what I do now as my actual career.

And then, yeah, I did a few others like.

So, you know, being alongside Dave doing what he was doing for the flies and you know, all the mixed cds, like the season beatings ones and stuff, and just being part of the process and watching him do that, that was also, you know, in a way, good mentorship for me.

Yeah, yeah.

And that brings us on to the season's beans.

Yes.

So that was kind of.

That was its own little kind of beast, really.

Yeah.

Again, it's something that, you know, didn't think it was just something we're thinking, look, we've got all these Christmas records.

Let's just put some together.

I think, you know, there's a few Christmas records that were like the catalyst, so the rotary connection one.

James got that and it was like, you know, this is just a good record, regardless of it being actually a Christmas ball.

You know, what can we do?

What else have we got?

And yeah, we did it and we just.

Fine while we were doing it.

So this has got.

It's got legs is potentially.

Yeah.

Not seen anyone else do anything like this.

And you know, at that particular point, Christmas music didn't seem to be that big a thing and probably a bit cheesy at that point.

So.

Yeah, yeah.

And it, you know, we got distribution for it and that kind of thing.

It was getting stocked worldwide in hmv, you know, you could buy in Japan in hmv.

Wow.

You know, I can remember going to the Oxford Street HIV actually, and they had it on their sailor display, pointer display when you walked in through the big doors and stuff.

No, this is just insane.

And you see in Shop windows, mind you, he's saying that.

I was just speaking to J Squared and he sent me a link.

Someone has got it on Discogs for Tempe.

But yeah, ups and downs, ups and.

Downs, those days over.

Who wants it?

Who wants a CD in this day and age?

Mind you, that was, you know, it was only one copy.

Neither was like a bit more expensive.

Yeah.

So as I spent more time with you, you know, we talk a lot about DJs and stuff, but what's always baffled me is that it doesn't really matter what music is being discussed.

It might be Throbbing Gristle, it might be Metallica, might be Eamon Tobin.

It doesn't matter.

You just seem to know it all.

Yeah.

And I think that goes.

That just goes back to childhood and just being exposed to all types.

And not just being exposed, but just being obsessed by learning about it.

So, you know, like I was reading Smashes.

I was reading the Face magazine, like when I was seven, you know, so whatever was in there, like Public Image limited or Grace Jones and whatever, I'm just absorbing it.

So I suppose that's what it is.

And it's just that inquisitiveness that is.

The thing you do seem to just absorb because it's not like it's all stuff looking backwards, you seem to keep up.

I've been in WhatsApp groups with you when there's discussions about new niche disco re edits or whatever and stuff, and you're like, oh yeah, I like that one.

And they've done this moon and blah blah, blah, blah.

And I'm just like, I don't know any of this stuff.

Like what?

Yeah, it's.

It's not something I feel like I put any effort into either.

It's just, you know, you.

The things that I suppose strike a cord.

Me, or maybe I mean before Internet, before you could listen to anything just on your phone, there'd be things where you might read about something, you couldn't hear it.

So therefore it would just stay in my head and thinking, oh, that sounded interested in that article.

I remember reading the Todd Rundgren article in.

I used to be a big Mojo magazine reader, right?

And there was this Todd Wooden article in there.

And I remember this was years ago.

And I remember just thinking, yeah, I like the sound of what these.

What they're talking about, but I can't actually hear them without going in, spending money on it.

And then I don't know for sure if I'm going to like it.

And then when, by the time the Internet comes around, you can actually start listening to these things.

Yeah, but yeah, it was a case of.

I think things would just get stuck in your head in sort of that you might read like a four page article and you just, yeah, think, oh, at some point when I get the opportunity to.

I will listen to that and see what it's about.

Yeah, it's like I've never really put the time into reading magazines, not properly.

Not since I was a kid.

And I'd read like football magazines.

But yeah.

Todd Rundgren, isn't he kind of like, is it like every second album is good or something?

Or like he'll kind of change it up?

Because that makes me think.

I think Beck's a bit like that.

It does change.

It does seem to change from each one.

And I like them, but there's somewhere they'll be very proggy and very experimental.

And then you got some that are kind of soulful.

Bit like hall of Notes.

He's from like the same place as all the notes and there's almost.

You can hear that a lot in his songs that they've got this same kind of Blue Eyed soul kind of thing going on.

But you just.

You'll just get that weirdness sometimes with Todd as well, where it's just like literally feedback.

Yeah, sometimes you'll get one album just of that, but then some.

A lot of the times you might get both together and you might get both together in the same song and yeah, you have to be, I suppose.

Yeah, it's not exactly for everyone, I suppose.

But yeah, he's one of those ones that you can just see.

He's like, yeah, you like that last one I did.

I'm gonna do something completely different.

If he can hang, cool if you can't.

Fair enough.

And I think with him, he was like an engineer.

So I think it's kind of almost like his day job was being an engineer on and a producer for all these other records.

So he's got the money to just be like, I'm just going to just experiment.

Well, it's like you're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't, aren't you?

Because you get like your DJ Shadow, who did quite a different album for his second album.

And it's like you've got everyone just being like, God, why don't you just do something more like introducing.

It's like, if I'd have done that, I'd just be doing the same thing again.

Like, what you want from me?

Just do Illmatic again.

Exactly, yeah, yeah.

And it's.

Yeah, I can see.

You know, for an artist it can be.

Must be an albatross randomly and you've got something.

You come in at the gate with something just huge.

Yeah.

Everyone loves it.

What do you do next?

Do you just do that again or do you try and challenge.

I wouldn't mind as a second Illmatic.

True.

And it felt the thing.

I think.

I think the thing with that Red Illmatic, that Illmatic situation was that it felt like we were going to get a second Illmatic.

You know, the lead up to it stuff in Marley Mall, he was doing like these freestyles on the radio that were just like over EPMD and stuff.

And it was like, oh, right, yeah, here we go.

And then it was just like track masters and you know, it was written is a good album but it's a different album to what we were expecting.

Who was it was.

I'm sure someone was saying they thought it was better than Illmatic a while ago.

Yeah, I feel like that's the discourse at the moment.

That's a controversial.

Yeah, I don't agree.

But it's just only because I've got that I got burnt.

I feel like I got burnt by it, you know, just off the basis of the lead up in Illmatic, I went out and just bought it without hearing anything.

And it's like.

As someone who's like, I appreciate we've not gone full timeline, but as someone who's so kind of dialed in on music and sort of expansive, what's the album you've been most excited to get that's landed and Beat Met expectations?

The one that sticks out is I remember when I got Midnight Marauders and.

Yeah.

You know, I just.

I didn't know it was coming out or anything.

I think I had some reason it might have been a single before it came out, but it missed me.

And I just saw in the shop and I was just like, yep.

And I didn't feel like that way with low end theory when you know that coming out after People Instinctive Travels.

I think I didn't get the album till quite a bit after it had come out.

I said, oh yeah, I think I got it for the music library.

So I used to be a big person to Leicester's music library.

Record library.

You could go in basically like a physical Spotify.

You know, you pay 40p, you'd have a CD for two weeks or.

Yeah.

Or record.

And you could also order.

You could order.

You can make requests on these postcards.

So, you know, Medicine Society Soundtrack.

I'll put a request into that and it will come in eventually anyway.

I must have got Levin Theory from there.

Originally started on tape, but, yeah, it wasn't something I thought, oh, yeah, as soon as it comes out, I've got to get it.

I wasn't that G'd up by People Instinctive Travel to do that.

Although I love that album.

But then when Midnight Marauders came out, I was just like, yeah, straight away.

And then going at home and just listening to it.

I just remember just thinking, this is just incredible straight off.

I think people's Instinctive Travels just doesn't get enough love.

It's like a psychedelic album.

Yeah, I agree.

I think.

I think it might just be for me, personally.

I mean, I loved it at the time and I listed it all the time.

But I think at the time there was other albums, so many other albums.

Like I remember, I mean, Three Feet High and Rising, I was still listening to that a lot at the time.

I was listening to Soul to Soul Club Classics Volume 1 a lot at that time.

And I think they.

Maybe that's around the World.

Yeah.

You think, can I.

Can I kick it?

Or maybe.

Probably didn't come out to the single till after the World Cup.

I just feel like they may have used that as a, you know, musical bed.

I always had.

It was the same year as Paul's Boutique and 3ft High for some reason.

But they're 88, aren't they?

89.

89.

So, yeah.

Because, yeah, they're both like close to each other.

Like.

Yeah.

Months apart.

But I guess they're.

They're like the triumph of like power sampling.

It's like we'll sample anything.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

You just think there's.

I like the Beatle samples and stuff across them and things like that.

Yeah.

Although Delisol kind of got done over for the sampling.

Yeah, yeah.

You know those.

And you know, I think Nation of Millions is a similar kind of thing where it's just like.

It's just a.

And it's a very different album.

But they're so dense in the samples, you know, it's.

Yeah, there's a few.

I think that.

And it's just that sort of 18 month window of just complete recklessness as far as, you know.

Yeah.

Jungle for the second album.

And again, that's another one where it's just all sorts on there sample wise.

And it's just.

Yeah.

You know, you couldn't put it out.

I don't Even know if they ever reissued it or anything like that.

But.

Which is the second album done by.

The forces of nature.

Right.

But it's.

You know, it's obviously couldn't be made now unless you've got a lot of money.

Yeah.

It just wouldn't be financially viable.

I don't know how anyone affords to clear anything now.

No.

Unless it's like we sign over just a massive percentage of publishing.

Yeah.

Just take nothing.

It's.

I suppose it's almost a flex now.

It's just like, oh, yeah, we've cleared this.

We can just afford to take the hit.

They'll.

They'll get 100.

Yeah.

If it's about getting the music out there because you believe it sounds good.

So is there an album that you've really anticipated that you found massively disappointing?

We spoke about.

It was written.

And again, I suppose this actually.

This is.

Ties in with in 96.

I think I was disappointed by most albums in 96.

And looking back.

Such as.

So I think disappointed, Underwhelmed.

I mean, Beats rhymes in life.

I don't mind.

But it wasn't as good as the others.

Jerry's second album is fine, but it wasn't as good as the other one before Showbiz and AG's Goodfellas.

I was underwhelmed by.

But then I'm thinking, well, I know other people think differently.

And I'm just wondering at that particular point I was getting into with the music.

So at that point, like, I started listening to the Beatles a lot because of the TV anthology series.

Likewise.

And so I was sort of delving into that world a bit just to see.

So maybe it was just more a case of I was finding other things a bit more exciting than what hip hop was.

So.

Because when I go back to those.

Any of those albums now, they all sound fine.

But I just remember 96 just kind of 96, 97 just drifting out.

A bit like Life After Death and Wu Tang Forever again, being just a bit like.

These are a bit bloated and.

Well, is that kind of where the commercial sounds are creeping in?

Yeah, I suppose so.

And there's a little bit more a big gripe of mine with hip hop was all around the drums, really.

It was whether they were like really sort of dry program drums or quote unquote, dusty loops.

And nowadays that won't affect whether I think something's a good tune or not.

But at that point it really did.

Yeah.

Because you were just sewing or.

I was so enamored by these Dusty drum breaks and stuff that if something had really dry or sort of like the track masters, triangles and stuff like that and claps and things, I just didn't want anything to do with it.

Whereas now I'm like, yeah, all right, let's go.

Yeah, it completely sounds incredible.

Right.

Yeah, it's aged a lot better in certain.

In a lot of cases.

Yeah.

In thinking of that aging better, I think there's the albums that sounded different back then, of all age.

Brilliantly so.

I mean, I liked it at the time, but I didn't list it as much as I do now.

Blowout Cone, Digable Planets, you know.

Yeah, it just.

I think, because it was quite different to other things at the time.

It's just aged a lot better now.

Yeah, I think that goes for that track master stuff and the.

Yeah, the other side of it, the more sort of radio hip hop, I suppose you can call it that.

Yeah.

I don't know if we can listen to Trackmaster stuff anymore.

Oh, can't we?

Oh, because of the sort of bad boy association.

Yeah, yeah, I suppose.

Yeah, we can.

As long as his voice isn't on it.

That's my indicator.

It's an interesting one.

I sort of like.

I've had people ask.

Well, I've been DJing about people, you know, someone asked me, oh, can you play it was some kind of puffy song.

And then they've took it back.

They took their request back.

Oh, no, we can't play that.

But yeah, then I've had people who just like, yeah, yeah, I just want to hear it.

It's fine.

It's an interesting one.

Yeah.

I think Rob Percy is quite like, if it's a good tune, I'll play it.

Yeah.

I think we've talked about maybe possibly R.

Kelly stuff before.

And he's like, if it.

If it slaps, it slaps.

But yeah, I was this.

I was listening to a mix by friend of the show, Matt Wedding Cop the other day, and I was like, oh, Carver, you've put.

You've put.

You put some diddy on here.

And it was.

Is it just called Bad Boys?

They're Cool in the gang Hollywood swinging, isn't it?

Doom, doom, doom.

Feels so good.

Oh, sorry.

Yeah, yeah, it feels so good, isn't it, Mace?

I was like, oh, I can't believe playing diddy on here.

And he's like, I think he hadn't said it was the cool and the gang one.

But I was like, no, mate, he's got.

Not with those claps or the Triangles or something.

I was like, damn, what you need.

Is we need to know Diddy edits.

I feel like someone's done a pack of all the bad boys up, but they've just edited his voice out.

They have, yeah.

I know.

Someone did a version of Bad Boy for Life.

Not Bad Boy for Life, all about the Benjamins, which was originally meant for Jadakiss, but they've used AI to change Diddy's voice into Jadakiss, so it's how it should be.

I think Cypher sounds did that.

That's mental.

So, yeah, so we can.

We can play that one.

Have you watched that boy band documentary?

I certainly have.

The tunes that five passed up on.

Yeah.

It's funny because I've read the book that, that I think that documentary is based on.

It's a great book.

So, yeah, it's fun read.

But yeah, it's crazy.

All the.

All the NSync, all the Britney stuff.

Yeah.

But I suppose that's like how the first Justin album, a lot of that was written for Michael, wasn't it?

Yeah, Michael and Janet as well.

What could have been?

There was something else.

I think fronting was meant for Michael as well.

For else wanting, which you could imagine it.

Yeah.

Oh, I read somewhere, I don't know if this is true or not, but Phong Song Cisco, that was meant to be for Michael as well.

Again, I can't.

I can't visualize that.

Yeah.

I can't imagine Michael doing Thong Song.

No.

Just as he never sang anything like that.

No, he's not talking about.

He's not talking about people's underwear.

No.

That's a funny one.

How did you find djing when Serato came in?

Were you on it quickly?

Yes, got it pretty quickly.

It just felt like, you know, because before that we had Final Scratch, didn't we?

And I can remember it's actually J squared.

I can imagine you say, oh, yeah, I've just tried Final Scratch.

And he's just like, well, this is, you know, the ultimate thing.

You don't have to buy doubles or anything.

You don't have to buy anything really.

You could just literally just take your computer.

You're not taking bags of records.

Yeah.

You know, because before that we'd do these bar sets for five, six hours and, you know, be caught in 200 records in bags and boxing and all this.

Oh, yeah.

I used to take loads of crates.

I always found it weird.

That Beatmaster seemed to be able to do like a five hour set on just like a 60 bag or a 90 bag.

It's because he's a professional.

He's just clinical.

I don't know if he does it on purpose, I don't know.

But I just assumed it because he was doing it so regularly and he just knew, he just needed these.

He didn't need to deviate in any way.

I don't know, you just seem to be on it.

Yeah, he'd take out like a third of the records.

I would, yeah.

To do a long set.

I like to have the choice even now, you know.

You know, it's been like there's a thing now, research of doing vinyl only sets.

You know, I'll come in and do a vinyl set.

I'm only meant to be doing an hour, but I'll take enough for like four because I just don't know what I'm doing.

I don't know what I'm going to play, what I feel like playing at the time.

But for me, compared to you, doing a vinyl only set.

Cause this was something else that I always noticed with you when we started DJing together is you won't really hang about in the song.

You stay busy.

I put a song on and then I just scroll on my phone until it's time for the next one or I go down.

Like if my records are on the floor, I'll sit beneath the decks and just flick through them so I don't have to make eye contact or talk to anyone.

Cause I'm just not about that.

I think me keeping busy in reflection is probably a bit of me just trying to be like.

I don't want to just look like a div.

It's an anxiety thing probably more than anything.

I just, if I keep busy then I'm, you know, I could just, yeah, lock into what I'm doing.

Yeah, yeah.

And another thing that's interesting is I think based on our discussions over the years, DJing for me is like a weird labor of love.

I've still not quite resolved it and got it understood in my head as to whether I, whether I like it or not.

I, I know I hear that and you know, it's.

I think I've been.

So for me, I've been moving my record collection around in my house in different rooms.

And part of that I've been thinking, right, I need to downsize this collection because it's.

There's too many.

I'm not going to listen to all these again in the rest of my lifetime.

Bit of a deaf clean.

A deaf Call.

Yeah, let's just reduce what records give me joy.

But part of that has been like, well, why am I DJing?

What the.

What, what.

What's my driver to do it?

Is it the sharing music part or is it the reaction?

I don't.

And I don't really know what the answer is.

I think it may be a bit of both.

I like, you know, because, you know, a lot of the DJ sets, if I'm doing a private party, I'm just playing like those private.

Those kind of party bangers.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's the tried and tested, you know, I just want us so from.

In that case, I just want reaction.

I want people to be visibly having a good time.

But then when I'm DJing for myself, I think there's also an element of like, I like to mix it.

If.

If I can get that mixture, that balance of.

I'm able to play a song that I like that's suitable with these bangers and just interweave those and still keep that energy going.

That's probably the main driver to be able to share music that I like alongside them.

Having a good time and getting that as a balance.

Yeah, you know, some.

You know, that's not possible every time I think.

For me, it's an.

It's almost like a bit of an ego thing in.

Not that I want people to look at me, I don't want anyone to look at me.

I want my choices of music to make people react.

Okay, So I want to be the puppet master.

The music being the puppet and that being the thing that makes people respond.

Yeah.

But I think, because I think I've always thought over the years, I think you kind of innately enjoy DJ mod.

Like, I find it a stress and hence, you know, I'll text you and I'm like, I don't.

I don't think things are going well or whatever.

I just need that bit of reassurance.

But something that I'll never forget with you is how you told me that sometimes if you're doing a blend that's working really well, you might get close to passing out.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I didn't want to.

I don't know what's happening.

Am I holding my breath?

But there's been times where it's literally like I've gone dizzy, faint, lightheaded, literally lost.

Literally lost vision.

You know, I can think of times when that's happened.

It's not happening for a while.

Maybe because doing blends are easier.

But, you know, if you're doing a blend with vinyl, I can remember doing like this would have been around seasons beatings era and doing a blend with Snoop Dogg Drop It Like it's hot and Paul McCartney's wonderful Christmas time.

And I'm using one of those now that's what I call music Christmas album.

So it's fin grooved.

Not that, but you know, it's like.

But I could just remember also trying to get that change over quick enough.

You got to mix the second record in.

Yeah.

Quickly you've mixed the first record in.

They mix that second one in quick enough so that you got the blend going.

And yeah, I think I can remember that time just literally just like I can't see a thing.

Do you ever do it where you'd like prep the second tune first so you'd get it beat matched and just like get a note of what the rough pitches and then take that off and then mix your other one in so you know what to.

No, I never, never realized it.

That's a good idea though.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you've got long enough to do it.

So it's like now I've got my little effects unit.

It's like I want to catch a loop.

But catching a loop is quite hard when you're a little bit.

When you're not very used to it.

Yeah.

And you're a bit tense.

So I just thought if I've got tunes on that are long enough, I may as well do the looping first.

So then when I catch the loop, I know it's looped.

Yeah.

So it's those like bits of prep and that'll keep me busy where I don't have to scroll on my phone or duck beneath the decks.

I saw a thing today.

It's going off track.

Well, I saw this like a DJ meme.

I don't know who posted it, but it was, it said it was like, what do house DJs when they crouch down underneath the table and I thought, I don't think I ever see the DJ cracked underneath the table and he started doing push ups.

That was the joke in that particular meme.

But yeah, they feel like I've seen, I've done really noticed it.

Well, it's a, it's a weird one.

Like, I'd assume so.

Yeah.

But like, I guess the thing now is like, you know, we've talked about hot knobbing.

Yeah.

You know, and for anyone that's listening that doesn't know this is a term for when dance music DJs all just seem to be just touching the EQ repeatedly.

Like it's, you know, 19,000 degrees, so you can't.

You can't touch it for too long, so your hand's gonna get burnt off and things like that.

It's like you.

You've got this kind of visual and physical presence that you have to be as a DJ now in a lot of stuff, definitely.

You've got to be so animated, and it's like, why do I have to be animated?

I don't think you do.

You know, I think it's just about being genuine.

If you're.

I mean, and then that stuff doesn't seem genuine to me.

It feels almost a bit performative.

It's a bit just sort of mask and mirrors.

Whether you're doing the Jesus pose and all that kind of stuff, it's like, what are you doing?

Exactly.

But if you.

Somebody.

If you just look like somebody's just enjoying you, enjoying the music you're being played, enjoying the moment.

You're in the moment, that's fine.

You know, I'm a minimal mover.

I don't.

I'm not really one for, like, hands up in the air.

I'm not even.

I'm not a mic person either.

Shout out to the people who do Mark.

I think that's such a skill.

I want to get Rob Percy on to do like a little mic master class.

Oh, yeah, he's good.

He's brilliant at it.

Martin too smooth.

I saw him.

I've been seeing him doing his support act with Ramesh and.

Incredible.

Absolutely incredible about it.

Such a skill.

You know, you see it with, like, you know, you go to your daughter's.

Your children's school disco and you see what they.

How they do it.

And obviously these guys have been doing it for decades and they're just.

It's just such a skill.

There's a guy who's done my little sister's kids parties for a few years, and he's there just getting, you know, getting a load of toddlers to dance and jump at bubbles or whatever.

Yeah.

But he's so good at it.

I'm like, this guy's got a discipline that he is very good at.

Absolutely.

You know, DJing is this.

It can be, you know, you can be that kind of person.

You can be that hot knobber.

Love that term.

You know, do all that kind of stuff.

You know, I think a lot of it is kind of.

Some of it is.

It's cliched.

It can be.

But, you know, I think if.

If it's genuine.

And you're genuinely feeling the music like that.

Yeah, brilliant.

You know, you've seen watching people like Louis Vega and he really gets into that rotary.

It's like, yeah, but he's genuinely feeling that music right now.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, go for it.

See people like Keb Dodge and he just go in absolutely berserk behind those decks and it's just bringing.

It's a different kind of energy and this.

Yeah, I think that's.

It's vital and it makes it unique.

It's the reason why, you know, it's good to see all these different DJs.

You know, it's a big part of what I really like is just watching all the DJs.

Watching what?

How they play things, what they play.

It's like, oh, I never thought of playing that.

I was like, oh, I don't even know what that is.

Yeah, I wish I had that sort of thing because I think that confidence, that animation, I feel like it is infectious, you know, and it's kind of going, yeah, this music's really good.

Whereas I'm there insecure, stiff and awkward, you know.

Yeah, I do think you.

Yeah, there is something in that where, you know, you can get a crowd on side by just picking it up, animating it, you know, whether it's Mike or not, you know, definitely someone on the mic just saying, look, this is.

It makes a big difference, but just someone just being.

If you could see someone being really into, you'd be like, oh, yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah, I'm into that too.

And yeah, that's again, it's not something I can do.

I'm not that kind of person, so I can't do that.

Yeah, you're gonna get.

The most you're gonna get out of me is a head nod.

Maybe like a bit of a.

Yeah, I like this.

But it's minimal movement.

So what we've just been talking about there just makes me think about when we started doing wedding sets together.

Yeah.

And we got into this really nice rhythm where for one reason and another, it kind of seemed to work that we'd go out as like a two man crew to do weddings.

I'd basically get pissed and danced with people and that, interact and like filter the requests and stuff.

And you'd do.

So we were a bit like 80, 20, weren't we?

So you'd do sort of 80% of the DJ and I'd do 20% and just do the like people person sort of stuff.

But I always felt guilty with that because I wasn't pulling my weight with the DJ in, but you seemed like pretty happy with it.

Yeah.

I think from my side one, you're fielding interactions, requests, which I've not got a problem with, but I think it just.

It keeps.

Means I can just keep it more sort of a focus on what I'm doing.

Yeah.

And I think doing like the, like 80 of it, I think it's good because I can just build up, especially with doing that kind of stuff.

I kind of think like five, six songs ahead.

So it just helps me maintain that sort of flow, you know.

So I think, yeah, it's good in that.

In that regard.

And, you know, it's.

Yeah, so it's.

I'm a lot better with them.

You know, when we were doing those and I was.

I'd only just started doing that because for years I would be.

I know I wouldn't.

I'd never do a wedding.

I just.

Not that type of dj.

Especially before Serato, I didn't have the records simply enough.

And even when I did have Serato, when people started asking, I was kind of like, well, do you.

If they knew the kind of stuff I played, they've got a kind of idea of what I'm like as a dj.

So therefore they don't want the typical wedding event DJ doing whatever a wedding event DJ does stereotypically.

So there was always a caveat and I was never.

I've never put it out there.

Oh, yeah, come to me and I'll play your event.

It was always, certainly still is to, you know, a certain extent, a word of mouth.

Yeah.

You know, it does seem to have escalated because people have seen me at one wedding and be like, well, I want them at my wedding, you know.

Yeah.

That's kind of how it's grown in that regard.

And yeah, we just used to do a couple every year, more or less, two or three years, if that, but.

But this is.

This is where you're like.

So, like, when I first started doing weddings, I used to do them on records.

Yeah.

I don't know how.

I think I probably just had loads of Motown sevens.

It must have been something like that because I've never had a load of sort of mainstream pop stuff.

I don't know.

Just kind of got away with it.

Yeah.

But I think.

Yeah, I think there was probably enough sort of 50p boot sale sevens that you could get that you could get away with doing most of a wedding on them.

Yeah, but.

But I guess something you have with what we've mentioned about, like, you just have such an understanding of such a vast expanse of music that we've talked about.

Say if you went to a wedding to DJ and there was like a load of well ends there, which for anyone listening, it's like guys who were like 40, 45 with Paul Weller hair, who want a certain set of indie hits or whatever, you'd be able to DJ to them.

Yeah, I like, you could give me Tidal and unlimited streaming and stuff.

I still wouldn't know what to play.

Yeah, you just have this expanse where you can kind of.

I can't imagine there's many gigs that you would go and do where you'd be really struggling musically.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because it made me think there was.

And I did actually play Paul Weller this Wedding in and it was great and one of the best ones I've ever done, really.

And.

But you know, that night I played, I think.

I think I started off with Sophie, Alex Bexter and there was abba, but then there was Spice Girls, but then there was like Bruno Mark Rowland, all those kind of stuff.

But then there was a Paul Weather section, the one bit that I struggle with and I just had to use Google and find out what the songs is.

Northern Soul, I just don't get it and I just don't know it.

But I had a Northern Soul section.

But all that, you know, I do find you can just kind of just play like the top 20 northern soul songs and it seems to just work.

Yeah.

Northern Soul crowds are a tricky one, I think because they're so passionate.

Yes.

About it as well.

So.

Yeah, and at this wedding actually it wasn't like a passionate because there's been times like, you know, I spoke about in the past where you.

You've had a hardcore Northern Soul.

You get it a lot around here in Derby and in the north.

There's a big Northern soul community here and sometimes you play in front of them and they can be.

They're just militant.

Certain music genres are quite militant about their music and just be like, yeah, I just want to hear this, this, this and this.

And yeah, I struggle with them.

Well, I speak, I think speaking about militant in music, just rolling back a few years, but we had.

Was it locked down at BPM in Derby.

He was like your typical.

Like, I only know, like I can picture him, but I don't remember sort of any interactions because it was probably before I was properly buying records.

Am I right thinking he would just like not sell certain records to people?

Yeah, yeah, he was Shout out to lockdown.