Being the strong one made Jasper almost invisible.

For nearly 30 years, Jasper Calcara built a successful structural engineering firm and became the person others trusted to handle any amount of pressure. But the more capable he appeared, the easier it became for everyone, including Jasper, to overlook what he was carrying.

The sudden death of his business partner left him with grief he didn’t process. Years later, when his marriage ended, Jasper was forced to confront the anxiety, low self-worth and loneliness concealed beneath his professional success.

Jasper joins Sam to explore male loneliness and men's mental health through his experiences as a leader, father and single man. He reflects on why high achievers hide inside their work, how projecting strength can prevent genuine connection, and what changed when he finally admitted that he needed help.

They also discuss fatherhood, finding an honest community, learning to sit with loneliness without numbing it, and Jasper’s 'Be Good. Do Good. Evolve.' framework for building a more sustainable life.

This is a conversation for anyone who appears completely capable but quietly feels unseen.

Connect with Jasper Calcara:

Website: https://jaspercalcara.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaspercalcaraofficial/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jasper+Calcara

Jasper, being a man who could handle any pressure helped you build a leading structural engineering firm.

But when your business partner died and your marriage ended, you were left carrying it alone.

How did the strength that built your success become the thing that nearly broke you?

Well, I just realized as I look back, you know, through my career and having built this business that was so successful and so stable for so long, and then also what I learned through the thousands of engineering projects that I had worked on is kind of hidden in all of that was this, this process, this philosophy, this structure that I could really apply to my personal life.

So when I was kind of facing that deepest, darkest moment, you know, everything had come crashing down around me.

I leaned into that process and I kind of simply call it be good, do good, evolve.

And that structure allowed me to kind of rebuild out of that low point and have an incredibly stable, fulfilling personal life that I had been missing before.

And it also gave me some incredible new skills that I could reach even higher.

Professional success.

So it ended up being this beautiful, you know, gift that, that I gave myself.

At what point of the journey did that framework become something for you?

I mean, as I look back, it was always there.

There was always a part of what I was doing for my business.

And the way I put it was like I was always trying to do what was best for the team itself.

And I really learned that from the founder originally.

He.

He made me feel like he cared more about my personal well being than what I could do for the business.

So I've always carried that philosophy throughout.

And then I always wanted to have the best product possible for my customer, for the project itself.

And then lastly, I would never stop pushing myself and my team and our company to change and grow with the changing needs of, of.

Of our customers or ourselves.

So that.

So each of those things essentially whittled down to being good, doing good, and evolving.

So when I was facing kind of trying to rebuild, I just followed that same framework.

It sounds simple.

It's obviously a lot harder to execute, but.

But with that framework, I was able to do things I had never done before in my personal life.

And you said the founder then made you feel like you were more important than the business one.

I like that impact that when someone cares about you to that level, you sort of want to work harder for them.

And you said that you pass that on now and you try and instill that in your business, what does that actually look like?

So what that looks like is so all the managers and partners and everybody that works for this company that's involved in hiring and supporting employees.

That's the promise we make.

So if I hire somebody, I literally make that promise to them and I tell them, look, this is not something you can just trust me on.

I've got to prove it over time.

That puts a lot of responsibility on me or the manager of the team.

So that means that we're constantly looking at the needs of the individual, their skill sets, their goals, their dreams, as well as the needs of the company as a whole and the customers that we're serving and just intentionally trying to make sure those all work together as best possible.

But if you always lead with the individual, if you always make sure that you really see them, that they feel heard, understood, inspired, they're just not a cog in this, you know, in this process, you know, then that inspires them to have some ownership over the, the, you know, what they're working with and for.

So it's just been something that I've been incredibly connected to my entire career and, and it's really how I, I approach everything and anything I work on is that we just have to care about the well being of the people and ourselves and then go out and do something incredible.

It sounds so simple when you say it.

And I think people listening will know that feeling or hopefully they may know that feeling.

They may know what it's like to not feel valued.

And like you said, the cog in the machine feeling of yeah, people can easily become disillusioned with their work.

They don't really care if they're doing it to their best, the best of their ability.

It's just a pay check at the end of the month.

But by doing that, you're giving them that feeling of they really care about me here.

And in response, I'm going to give them some of that back in how I do my work.

Which ultimately is better for the business owner, right?

Absolutely.

And you really, you want them to succeed.

So if success means something outside of our firm, then so be it.

Right.

A part of it is with new hires is understanding how well is the fit.

You know, we have a beautiful culture of supporting everybody's individuality, but we also have extremely high expectations.

We've been performing at the top of the industry for decades, so we have an incredibly, you know, high value product.

So it's about seeing the individual, supporting them in everything that they want and can do, but also finding out is this the right place for, for you and not just, you know, forcing something that's not a right fit.

Having Them build, you know, an actual home.

And that means challenging and testing them.

I've never been afraid to challenge and test people.

I love to push people and see what they can, that, what they can accomplish.

But in that process, again, you know, make sure they really feel like they're seen as individuals.

Yeah.

So important.

I just want to jump back to that first question.

So that feeling of you had this success and certain things in your life happened that left you being more alone with it.

And in that moment you said that it nearly broke you.

What did that actually look like in your day to day life in that moment?

How I like to back up a little bit and talk about, you know, what a lot of us carry.

So I come from the world of structures, buildings and bridges.

I'm helping repair them and, and make them stronger.

So my entire career was about that process.

So we were looking at a, at a structure and saying what support does it need to then be able to be stronger in, and carry its need into the future?

Well, we're no different.

We're structures and we carry a lot of hidden cracks.

And, and those cracks we hide with armor and masks.

And in my case, I always said like a Superman complex where we're, we're navigating life not really being true to what we're carrying inside.

And those, those cracks, they'll show themselves, they'll show themselves in, in your life.

So a lot of highly driven people, for sure, a lot of highly driven people, you know, they might be incredible at work, but then they go home and their personal life, you know, has a lot of, of challenges.

They're constantly fighting with their spouses, their kids, their friends, their family, and it's just happening over and over.

And that's usually because, you know, you're compensating for something that you're, that you're, that you're hiding.

And I was doing that.

So it wasn't until I kind of lost everything that I finally knowledge what I was carrying.

And for me personally, it was a lack of self worth that made me have to be spectacular, you know, to overcome the fact that I didn't, you know, love myself enough and anxiety.

So I'm trying to control the world around me.

I couldn't admit that I was carrying those things and I was constantly hiding them.

But they do their damage and you know, just like the buildings that we work on, we can't ignore the cracks they're carrying.

Yes, it's a good comparison.

It makes sense to put, to put that visuality into it in terms of that time frame.

So things went, like, bad for you, and you say that you realized that it was because you didn't love yourself enough.

What was the time frame of that realization?

Because I'm.

I doubt it sort of came to you as soon as things went bad.

But what did that actually look like, that process for you?

It's just amazing to look back and see how we can lie to ourselves.

How absolutely.

When we've been living a life for so long and protecting ourselves, we're just building this stronger and stronger armor around us, which makes it harder and harder to truly see these things that we're hiding.

So we lie to ourselves.

We, you know, anything and everything to avoid having to address it.

So I could see the damage it was causing at home.

And I was doing everything I could to solve that, you know.

You know, my ex and I worked really hard.

We went to therapy.

We did everything that we could truly do, but I couldn't.

It wasn't until.

Until I could truly acknowledge it.

Right.

And for a lot of people, acknowledging it is the most painful part because, you know that we feel.

We carry shame over these things.

We feel like, you know, we can't handle the emotion of these things that we buried so deep for so long.

Then all of a sudden they came up and they come out and they're overwhelming.

So that's why I like to talk a lot about these things that aren't talked about that often, you know, to where we just start to be more in tune with them earlier and we start to release the pressure.

We start to give them love and support they need early in our lives.

But for me, I had been burying it for 40 years.

So by the time I hit rock bottom and I'm like, I need to take off this armor, the first thing I did was I acknowledge these things I was carrying.

For the first time ever, honestly, I forgave myself.

I let go of the shame, and I committed to doing super hard work.

So that's what I call the be good stage.

I had to do those things to be able to even have a chance of.

Of moving to the next stage, which was for me, the do good stage was I was committed to.

To healing.

But I was doing it for my children, I was doing it for my employees, my friends, even my ex, to where as I was going through a really difficult process.

And we get, you know, we get upset, we get embarrassed, we get angry, and we want us spiral or do destructive things.

I always had that thing that brought me back to center, which was I'm doing it for these people I care about so much.

So I think when we go out in the world and we commit to doing things for others, it really holds us more accountable.

And then the final piece was the evolve.

So if I would have been good and I did it for people, but I just kept trying to solve the problem in the same way I always was for all those years, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

So the evolve part is doing something different and changing.

So in that case it meant two things.

One, finally asking for help.

I think a lot of people, it's really difficult for them to truly ask for and accept help.

And then for me, finding the right support system, the right doctors, the right therapist to help me truly heal.

So those are the kind of the three pillars of this process and how I applied them.

In that moment, where did you think, where do you think the need to be so strong and the protector and provider first came for, for you?

Yeah, I think so many of these things are, are developed in our early, early childhood.

I don't claim to be an expert in this.

All I can relay is my experience and a lot of what I see.

So some people carry it from early childhood, others carry for childhood and, or have some trauma later in life that causes this damage.

So for instance, if we talk back about when I lost my business partner, so that was many years before the divorce.

And I, I equate it to an earthquake.

I say, inevitably that earthquake's gonna hit you in life.

And for me it was that sudden loss of my business partner, my mentor, my close friend.

And that is an earthquake that didn't knock my life over, but it caused a ton of damage.

Right.

So now I'm carrying all these new cracks that I hadn't healed, I hadn't processed the loss and such.

So you know, I think they can occur at all times in our lives.

But for me, I carried it from a very early age.

I, I, I was always trying to be special, to be perfect, to be an overachiever, since it's before I could remember.

And I was always trying to control the world around me, which again, I didn't understand either of them until much later when I realized it was a self worth and an anxiety thing.

And I think a lot of people share those similar traits, but obviously there's many others.

Yeah, absolutely.

When your business partner passed away, what did you lose beyond just a business partner there?

Yeah, it's a great question.

I mean, for me, I lost a support system.

So for high achievers and leaders It's a very lonely position to be in.

It's.

You don't have a lot of people that understand you.

So that was somebody that understood what it was like.

So I lost him and lost that support.

I lost a mentor, I lost a friend.

I mean anybody losing a mentor and a friend in a support system is devastating for him.

He was actually a really interesting role model for me because he was an incredibly, you know, disciplined and, and, and a wonderful engineer.

But outside of work he was, he just let loose.

He was very free and silly and I wasn't, I was so uptight.

So he was a mentor and just like relax a little.

So I lost that and I got even more know, uptight and that wasn't healthy either.

So.

You lose people for so many, you lose so many beautiful things when you lose the people in your life.

But separately from what I lost, it also did damage.

Like I didn't process the pain of losing this person I cared about so much.

I bottled it all up and I just took on more responsibility.

So that was, you know, that was a, that was a tough journey.

How long did you bottle up for?

Was it.

Was that part of the stuff that you ended up reflecting on when it, when it did require that moment?

Yeah, so I believe it was seven or so years.

Maybe it was more.

There was a long process where my ex and I tried to really heal things.

So the business was growing, we're growing our family, we're building this beautiful life like just to be envied and we're trying to solve these deep seated issues in, in ourselves and, and we just weren't getting anywhere.

So year after year, it was a real challenge, but we were so committed that it didn't come crashing down, you know, for quite a while.

So then when I finally reflected all the things that I needed to heal, you know, I started with the self worth and the anxiety.

So those were the first two that I really addressed.

And it was life changing, the breakthroughs I had.

What I didn't understand was that was, and how to process the loss of him.

And then later an uncle that I was very close with as well.

Those things showed up later in other, you know, I was starting to, you know, feel physical pain and I went through this stretch of time where I realized we carry stress, pain, loss in our physical body.

And I went through a healing journey that I didn't know I was even going to go, going to go on.

And that took me years after, you know, that, that first healing process.

So what's wonderful is that we.

Wonderful and devastating, obviously, is that we can.

You know, we're always going to face these new challenges, like these new losses, these new pains.

Our bodies break down, you know, in different ways.

But if we are always committed to.

To really looking deep and healing and finding what we need, you know, there's this.

There's.

There's something out there for us, and that's been very.

It's been wonderful to feel that confidence that I know I can go find that support.

I don't have to carry it all by myself.

When you look back now, you obviously say you can recognize that you bottled things up in that moment and kept things moving, which is what a lot of people do, to be fair.

But you've actually acknowledged now that that's what you did in the moment.

If you can remember, do you.

Was there part of you that knew you were doing that just you needed to keep things going, you need to keep the business going, everything else.

Or did you sort of acknowledge in the back of your mind what you were doing maybe wasn't quite optimal?

Oh, I think the crazy thing is, is that.

And I've.

And people often ask me, like, what's the easiest way to tell if we're carrying these.

Some cracks like this or some instability?

Because again, in my professional life, it was just nearly flawless.

And people put so much weight on that, right?

They see this.

Oh, this professional success, you get so much admiration.

You know, you get financial success, and then you're building this beautiful personal life so that we put a lot more kind of weight on certain things and devalue others.

And I think that that's, you know, that's all.

That's a trap that we can fall into.

But I always go back to the way that it typically shows itself is in our closest personal relationships.

And year after year, we would just face significant challenges, whether we'd have this huge spike and things would fall apart, or I would just be super uncomfortable and unhealthy.

And so.

But I would always say, well, I've got too much to deal with.

I've got this business to run.

I've got these kids, you know, to.

To raise.

I've got this family to support.

So it was always excuses, right?

And you're always downplaying these things so that you can just keep hiding them under.

Under the armor, in my opinion.

Was there anyone close to you at that time that questioned anything and your behavior that maybe change that you look back on now?

That was a sign.

That's such a wonderful question.

I was so I just, it was just the 20th anniversary of my business partner's passing and the 12th anniversary of my uncle.

And it, it happens to be the same day of the year.

So it's a very emotionally heavy day for me that I try to use to process, you know, and, and I was talking to my ex about this specifically.

You know, I'm very proud of how we've navigated this and been able to stay, you know, respectful support system for each other.

And we talked about that day, we talked about that time, and we admitted, look, we, we forgive ourselves.

We can't sit here and wish anything else happened.

We did the best we could, but we, we reflect on that exact question and we said, wow, there, there was a lot of people that said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

Oh my gosh, what can I do, you know, to help?

But nobody really ever said, this is a lot that you're going through.

You know, this might have an impact, you might need or want to find some support.

No one really said that to either of us, and I don't blame anybody.

But that's why I'm such an advocate for being so open about this and, and speaking up to my friends and family.

When I see things, you know, I just, I feel like there's an opportunity and responsibility for us to just help society and the community around us because of what we've individually gone through.

Yeah, grief.

Grief is such a difficult thing for people.

I think obviously a lot of people will have gone through it.

Some people may not have to maybe that level.

And we.

When I've spoken to people before, so like, I spoke to a grief expert who was explaining about some of these things because it's such a difficult topic to speak about, to sort of ready ourselves for that moment.

You can treat things as what they are.

Grief.

I suppose so.

Things like losing a job, losing a relationship, if your partner leaves you, these are still forms of grief, but perhaps slightly easier to talk about than actually losing a life of someone.

And when it comes to that moment, so many people often say, is there anything I can do?

I'm so sorry.

Which in that moment is like an extra burden on that person.

Because how am I meant to think of what I need right in this moment?

I'm grieving, I'm going through this loss.

Whereas they said that some of the most useful things you can do is just an action.

So she spoke about this person who came over, said, like, let me in.

I'm going to cook your food for the week.

I'm Going to box it all up, put it in the fridge, that's done for you.

And she was just like, some actions like that are so much more useful than that.

Go to phrase that we all go to is let me know if you need anything for you in that moment.

Thinking back as well, is there also an element of the loneliness that started to show itself there because you were running all these things.

As you said before, you've got a family to raise, you've got a business to run, and now you've got to grieve, but you're lonely and doing all these other things.

What was that, that part of your mindset like?

Yeah, loneliness is a really major factor, I think, that we all face.

We can feel lonely in any space we're in, whether you're carrying a huge responsibility or not, if you just don't feel seen.

And that was a major part of what I was going through.

One, because people didn't truly see me.

I'm just so.

I always project myself as so capable.

So, like, oh, Jasper will figure it out, he'll be fine.

You know, they love me and they support me, but ultimately they got lives to get back to.

So I think that people, you know, when they present, I can take care of everything, which I'm really compensating for these, you know, damaged parts of me.

It gives people around them kind of a free pass to say, okay, they're taken care of.

So I think I've always said that, like, one of the most powerful things that, you know, someone could say to me that I rarely ever hear is just someone honestly saying, wow, this must be really hard for you, right?

Like them actually seeing how difficult this might be to raise these kids, to run this family, to have gone through all this loss, to have all this success, to try to maintain, you know, this company at the top of, you know, the industry for decades.

And people, you know, truly saying, wow, that must be really hard because that makes me actually stop, slow down and process.

This is hard.

And it, you know, it emotionally really triggers me.

So people just want to be seen.

Loneliness is about feeling invisible.

So I really tried this last bunch of years to go out and find a community that saw me.

And that's been a beautiful journey.

And I think anybody who's feeling lonely and unseen, it's not easy.

But just put yourself out there and find that community that truly sees you.

What would you say to someone that recognizes that they're projecting this capable version of themselves that is causing everyone around them to look at them and Go.

Things are tough for him, but he's going to deal with this.

He always does.

Well, I think the one thing we should always do is look at how we feel when we achieve something, anything.

Do we feel empty?

Do we feel satisfied?

Do we just set a bigger goal and hope that's going to make us feel better?

You know, that that's a real telltale sign.

I think for a lot of us that are compensating for things, I would say that, you know, again, it really, really just comes down to trying to surround yourself with people that, you know, really do connect with you on that deeper level.

It's easy to be around people who are constantly networking or just superficial fun and socializing, which is great.

You know, that stuff is necessary.

But if you don't have those couple, few people or a community that truly kind of sees behind the mask and you have to be willing to take down that mask.

Right.

So I was unable to.

But once I had that healing, I stood up in front of my company for the first time ever and took off my armor and admitted that, you know, that I have flaws.

I had been presenting this perfection that's so dangerous, honestly, in the long term.

So it's a two part thing.

You gotta go find it.

But then you have to be, you know, a true version of yourself when you do find it.

Because if you're just putting up that wall, you're never gonna truly be seen because you're, you're, you're not giving them your true self.

I want to hear a bit more about the community that you found in a moment and what that's brought you.

But just there where you said you stood up in front of your business for the first time and you were vulnerable, you were open and you took off that armor.

What was that moment like for you?

And perhaps what did you think it was going to be like?

What was it actually like?

Yeah, I tell people that literally the second that you speak those words, that you admit these things that you've been carrying and hiding for so long, even just speaking them, starts to take the weight off.

It starts the healing process.

That's probably the most difficult step, but it is so, so powerful.

So I felt that sense of relief.

Of course you're scared.

You're wondering, how are these people going to see me?

You've been painting this Persona forever now.

Are they going to reject me?

But in the end, you know, I knew that I couldn't do anything otherwise.

I was at rock bottom.

I hope people can choose to make these types of fearless, you know, statements before they're rock bottom to open up.

Because the gift was is that I believe if I hadn't done that, then the business would have started to suffer.

You can't push people to such an intense level and never acknowledge that we're human and that we have vulnerabilities.

Right.

I was very good at culture, making people seem, seen, understood.

I truly loved them.

But if I'm leading with this armor that has no scratches, that no one could truly live up to, I truly believe that if at that moment hadn't happened, we would have faced some devastating consequences down the road.

So, one, I was so proud of myself, and it's good to be proud of yourself when you do hard things.

I was so appreciative of the support that I got from the community around me and my employees.

And I realized later that it was truly a gift that I was giving them in the company because I think we've achieved, you know, a higher level of success than we would have if I hadn't gone through that.

And tell me a little bit about that community that you mentioned then.

So tell me how you found them and what have they given you?

It was tough.

It's really hard to find a community.

I tried.

You know, I had kind of surrounded myself a little bit more of a, you know, superficial, you know, crowd.

And they were wonderful, and I appreciated them.

But I was just starting to feel, you know, more and more lonely, like we said, and less inspired.

I wasn't feeling as fulfilled.

So I think a lot of us, when we are in that stage, we need to kind of let go of certain, you know, friends and people in our life that aren't serving us.

And that's a sad thing.

It's a scary thing.

So I did that.

I kind of went through this process of kind of slowly letting go of a community that.

That.

That wasn't really connecting on the level that I needed.

I definitely didn't feel seen.

And then I just went out into the world and really tried to.

To connect.

I put myself in a lot of new situation, a lot of new groups, but I always came with a very open, authentic version of myself.

So the two that help the most.

One, I wish I would have known or put myself in the opportunity to find an organization like this, but I joined an entrepreneur's organization.

So it's only business owners, and it's not business owners that are there just to compare accomplishments and network.

It's about really supporting each other, going deep.

So that was the first time that I was surrounding myself with people that didn't have a relationship with me from a financial standpoint.

They really just truly saw me, supported me.

And we support each other with a lot of experiences.

So that was.

That was beautiful.

So I really recommend that highly driven people and business owners that feel alone, there's a community out there that are just like you and, and you could really support each other.

So that was my professional community.

But then I needed one in my personal life.

So, same thing.

I went out in my personal life and slowly put myself in new rooms and new places and started to accumulate a group of people that truly saw me and inspired me and again, you know, didn't just see me for what I could give them.

That.

That idea of shedding friends, I suppose.

And there is moments in our life where as we start to change, you have to leave certain people behind or maybe leave them for the.

For the time being.

And yeah, the name of this podcast is the Lonely Chapter.

This is an idea created by podcasts Chris Williamson and Alex Hormozi.

And it is about that chapter of your life where you begin to make changes.

You build new habits and new things that you're doing.

And rather than going to the pub on a Friday night, you stay in to read and learn about something and your friends maybe try and joke and banter with you that it's like you're a loser for doing so.

And you start to grow away from them and you go into that lonely Chapter as you start to change yourself and grow yourself before you can then become around the people who you're going to be around those.

That next level of people.

And that's where you.

These sort of communities really come in handy as well.

People going through the same stuff, people especially the entrepreneur or one for yourself and for anyone who owns a business, there's so many unique difficulties that you go through that someone like myself wouldn't understand.

But just having that recognition and understanding from the people around you is massive.

Absolutely.

When you were.

If you could look back now at yourself and maybe when you were pushing through all these things, these things were happening around you and you were carrying the stress, you were trying to keep everything going and spinning all the plates.

Looking back now, it's obvious for you to see where things could have been done differently, perhaps what would you say to that person who was doing that in that moment?

If so, if I was just a friend or a mentor, support system for the younger version of me, the one thing is just to make people really feel it's safe to be who you are.

Right.

It's not about that you're damaged or you're broken.

So when I talk about buildings and bridges, you know, the cracks they carry, we don't knock the bridge down.

We don't say, that's a total loss.

We do what we need to do to support it temporarily.

That's been my entire career.

How do I support this thing temporarily?

That's.

That needs to be repaired or strengthened, and then once it's supported, you can pull back and let it, you know, live its life.

So same thing with people is that, you know, just showing them that, look, you're carrying something you're.

But everything you are and you carry is beautiful and, And.

And.

And should be, you know, is not something to be shameful about.

Right.

So somebody that would have been able to break down that wall with me and have conversations around my behavior and say.

And asked me a ton of questions, because I just never had those kind of conversations.

So if I was in my 20s and somebody was asking me, why do you push so hard?

What's it gonna.

What would.

What's next?

So maybe you reach your next goal.

What's after that?

How do you feel?

Are you comfortable and happy in your home life?

Especially in those quiet moments, you're all alone.

That's the one for everybody to look at, take space from these constant distractions and see how you feel.

It's very uncomfortable.

That's where things come up and you can address them.

So I think I would have just been a very kind, supportive coach, and I would have pointed out some of the things I point out to other business owners.

I would be like, look, you would never put up with this level of dysfunction in your business that you're seeing in your home life.

Why are you allowing this behavior, this thing, to damage what you're truly building everything for?

Right.

Your family and.

But in your business, you would.

You would address that immediately.

Like, even that perspective, I would have.

Wouldn't have had an answer for it.

I would have ruminated on that and I think possibly made some changes.

So it's hard when you're young.

We're just so driven.

We're just going such a hype.

You can't be told what to do.

But hopefully with.

With some care, you can help people think a little differently, pay attention to what they're carrying.

Yeah, we're.

And we're fed certain messages as well about this, like, hustle culture and grind, like businesses being so important, when in reality, as you say, like, your family life is what you do it for.

So why are we treating that business as more important and not fixing the problems that we would fix in your business, in your home life?

You've spoken to me about, about loneliness and about that feeling of being alone.

And you've mentioned yourself when you.

When you messaged me about being a lonely leader, a lonely parent, and a lonely single man.

How did loneliness feel different in each of those three moments of your life?

Every time we're lonely, we can always fill it with something.

So as a lonely leader, I had a million things I could do right?

So I would.

I could distract myself, I could lean into my work and, you know, and.

And bury that loneliness.

Same thing at home.

You know, you've got a family that's growing, they always need you.

And I adopted a lot of needs of my family around as well.

So you can just literally go out and find things to fill that space.

And then as a single, you know, a single man, after the divorce, same thing.

You can go out and you can socialize and you can just bury yourself and whatever numbing mechanism you need.

So I think that's the first thing is to realize that really the key to loneliness is leaning in to what loneliness is like.

Literally step away from those distractions.

So when I did a bunch the last few years when I was really trying to find my community is I embraced loneliness.

I committed.

It was.

So I committed between my 49th and 50th birthday last year to, to do 50 bucket list things to get as uncomfortable as I possibly could.

So that meant a lot of loneliness.

That meant really putting myself in positions where I would refuse to allow myself to numb.

And in that space comes a lot of gifts, right?

You get a lot of direction.

You.

You start to understand yourself, you start to, you know, see opportunities for growth.

And then when you couple that with putting yourself in uncomfortable situations, the feeling you get when you do something new and difficult before and after you do it is the most incredible feeling in the world.

So it really is an antidote for loneliness, is just continue to challenge yourself and do really new and uncomfortable things, especially with communities of people.

That's how I really approached that final chapter of loneliness.

More most recent one was with that approach,.

What did you change in your home life?

So once you started to recognize what needed to change, I don't know how old your children were at the moment, at that time of your life, but you obviously had this mentality before that working on the business, providing for the family was the important thing.

But what did you change in how you were present with your children beyond that.

So luckily when I was young, I did listen to some of those around me.

I was, I remember being in the barber shops and the gray haired men next to me always saying the same thing.

I wish I would have gone to more games.

I wish I would have worked less.

So very early on, I was very committed to spending quality time with my kids.

Well, the problem is, is I really didn't take care of myself.

And I think most parents can relate to that.

They'll put their kids first, maybe their business second, and their office time a distant third.

So I'm very proud of the relationship I had with my children.

I'm not always proud with what version of me I brought because I wasn't taking care of myself.

And I think a lot of people can relate that that's almost as you kind of spiral.

You start to judge yourself as a parent, you know, so giving yourself opportunities to take care of yourself.

So I started to see it.

For me, I like to forecast like as an engineer, I'm looking ahead.

I can't just say stuck in this moment.

I got to look at what's coming.

What could that bridge or building face, what earthquake, what hurricane, whatever it is, and what's my plan?

So for me, I had to kind of develop a plan.

I saw things coming on the horizon I knew were going to be extremely difficult.

One of them, my kids aging and moving out of the house, which they're starting to do, that was going to be an incredibly emotionally heavy thing, especially for parents who put everything into their kids and then find themselves alone.

They're a shell after they're gone.

I knew that although I love and still do love everything about my work, it's slowly less fulfilling.

I've been doing this for so, so long.

So I had to really plan out years ahead, you know, that I want to be a different version of myself.

And in the coming years I want to take care of myself.

I want to develop a community and I want to, you know, find my next.

I want to find my next path and purpose.

So I always just recommend people.

You can't wait till the crisis occurs and hope a solution is just waiting for you.

It's rarely that you have to really be intentional and engage in things that will help you find that outcome you need.

What, what do you hope that your children learn from these things that you're talking about now and reflecting on?

Yeah, I've always hoped like I've been successful and you know, I, I think there's A pressure on kids of successful parents to meet or exceed that level of success.

You know, my kids have actually said, as such, and, and I said, I'm very proud that I can give you the opportunity financially to go to universities and such, but I want you to find, you know, I want you to navigate this life a much healthier version, you know, than what I did.

So we did talk about emotions and things early on in their life.

So they're much more in tune with that.

They're caring, I'm sure all kinds of stuff.

We all are.

No matter how good of a parent, you can't, you know, claim that there, that there's not stuff you're going to have to unpack.

So I want them to go out, be good people, go out and do something good in this world and never stop changing.

Or essentially the same philosophy, be good, do good, evolve.

And all I can do is lead by example.

So I'm out here on this call right now doing something that's uncomfortable because it matters to me.

I really want to help people, and I think that that's a good role model for my kids and hopefully many people, you know, to go do something that, that matters.

You spoke about your framework earlier.

You mentioned the be good, do good, evolve.

And it's five words.

Sounds simple enough.

But which part for you has been the hardest for you to live?

I think at any time, any one of them can.

So I like people to visualize it like a structure.

You know, a single column standing up is not stable.

It's gonna fall over.

Two can fall over, but once you introduce that third, it's the first time you can build something stable.

So you got these three things.

Be good, do good, evolve.

And they're all supported.

That's your foundation.

You're gonna build your life off this foundation.

But each one of those can carry individual cracks.

Like these cracks we keep talking about emotionally and in the real world around us.

So if any one of those pillars develops too many cracks or any combo, the whole thing can come down.

They support each other.

So you can't go out and be good, you know, and evolve, but then do horrible in the world, right?

Like, so they don't, they don't work unless they all work together.

So at different stages I've had, you know, it can be extremely difficult to constantly control your.

Your ego and, and be the best version of myself every day.

That's not easy, right?

So you have to forgive yourself on those days that you're just not carrying it.

Do good every day, trying to do the best for the world around you.

Again, this is a lot of weight.

So some days it's really hard to, you know, to be out there and just doing everything you possibly can for everybody around you in a healthy way.

So you, again, you have to have a very healthy balance and then evolve means constantly challenging yourselves.

Again.

Maybe you don't have it in you right now.

I just can't put myself through another really difficult thing today.

So they all definitely show up at different times, and I just give them each the level of respect and support that they need so that I'm constantly stable.

But I just, I don't.

I have to let go of perfection.

You know, we.

We just cannot strive to be perfect.

That's just impossible.

Yeah, well, that was going to be a question I was going to ask just then on that.

Obviously.

Be good, do good.

What you measure that against and how do you stop it becoming, aiming for perfection, which we know it's, it's impossible to be perfect all of the time.

Well, in those, again, in those quiet moments, how do you feel?

Are you proud of yourself?

Can you look at the world around you and the families and friends and employees or whoever you impact, and can you honestly say that you're, you're a good influence on them?

Are you stuck doing the same thing over and over and having the same results you're not happy with, or are you challenging yourself?

So it really just is about taking time and reflecting and, and really noticing, you know, how your behaviors in those three areas are, are at the moment.

At any given time, you're going to have your ups and downs.

So I, I think a good piece of advice is when you go through all these levels of healing and, and repair work, you gain tools, you gain confidence.

They are, these cracks are not fully ever repaired.

They're like a scar.

They're like a, you know, damage in our body that can be torn open.

So in the right circumstances, you will be tested and any one of these cracks will be torn open.

It happens to me.

But what I realize about myself is when they do get torn open and you, let's say, quote, unquote, spiral or destructive behavior, whatever that means for you, is that I'm able to be much more aware of what's happening.

I'm able to use the tools I've learned and, and I'm able to exit that behavior much quicker and then give the tear the, the support it needs to heal again, you know, so that, that's clearly the, the opposite of perfection.

Perfection is you fix it, you're done forever.

So with that mindset that these are things that we're going to carry the rest of our lives, they're things that need support and attention, you know, that just takes the pressure off that you're not looking for perfection, you're just looking to be human.

Yeah.

And with that said, obviously carrying these three things and more of.

Sorry.

Each of them being maybe more prevalent at certain stages of our life, certain moments, different things we're working on.

Which one for you at the moment is one that you're working on?

And what does that look like?

I mean, I'm always working on all three.

At any given time, any given day, hour one, you know, can spark itself, you know, so right now I'm out there kind of delivering this message and I'm very proud of it, and I have an incredible support system around me.

But like anybody doing something new and challenging and in the middle of evolving, you can second guess yourself.

You can be like, this is so hard and you want to shut down, you know, so going out there, you know, especially is the first time I've really put myself out there in social media in this way and in, in, in giving a message of healing versus a message of engineering and all the services I've been providing for decades.

So you can just sit there and you can constantly second guess and like, why am I doing this?

This doesn't reflect who I am.

But, you know, you're building up.

Everything is just another stone in the foundation of what you're trying to build.

And you just have to let go and forgive yourself or let yourself feel.

I can feel angry, you know, sad, scared, whatever it is, make it a safe space to feel whatever you're feeling and then move forward.

And if you get stuck, lean into the support system.

I hope you've developed.

Those are the tools I mentioned.

So if I'm stuck, I can call somebody that understands what I'm going through and I can say, hey, for, you know, honestly, I need your help.

And, and that's been, you know, a real gift to have that community.

We've spoken across the episode about the.

How you developed that early desire to be strong, to be someone who people could rely on, which ultimately then obviously became your detriment at some point because you're carrying this, this person, this charade that wasn't necessarily true to what you were feeling inside.

When you look at it now, and someone was to say, what does a strong man mean to you now?

What would you say to that?

I mean, a strong man we can still be, you know, protectors, providers.

You know, we can still do incredibly hard things and set big goals and be successful.

I never want to minimize people being the, you know, best versions of the selves, but, you know, it's about breaking the historic lines of.

Of men just carrying it all silently and then lashing out at the.

At the world around them is to be more open and vulnerable about what we carry and stop thinking this is a weakness, because, again, I've been lucky enough to prove this is an incredible strength.

This gave me such wonderful gifts across my entire life.

So people, as men, that we might think, like, I like to say it's like an energy equation, they might think, well, if I take energy away from building my professional life and put it to my personal life, it'll take away from my professional.

And I don't want that.

And I'm trying to, you know, convince people it's actually the opposite.

The more stable you are and the more open and true to yourself and the more you grow and learn, it will actually allow you to reach professional success much higher than you ever would before.

And the entire system can be stable.

So, yeah, as soon as I was able to take off that armor and look around and see how so many men around me aren't comfortable doing that, I just tried to make it a safe space for people to take that weight and pressure off that we just all carry so unnecessarily.

That's a great message to share.

And I think from my own experience of speaking to men and seeing the men around me and the ones that I would look at and think are the strongest are the ones who are willing to be open and vulnerable, but also do the work as well.

And the ones that put on that bravado and that fate, you can almost see through it.

A lot of the time you're like, you're not being honest with me.

Like, let me help you.

Let me, like, just.

Just be honest yourself.

Yeah, just.

You don't even need to do this in front of me.

But anyway, Jasper, the way I like to finish my conversations is to ask my guests to leave a question for the listener.

Now, this can be a question to go away and start a conversation with someone over what we've spoken about.

It comes from my love of listening to podcasts and going away and having conversations beyond the end of that episode.

So if you could leave someone a question to go away, start a conversation with a friend, a family member, or.

Or even a stranger, what question would that be?

And the one that intrigues me the most is a pretty deep one.

So, you know, it would have to depend on who you're talking to.

But when we do take space and we're alone and we're not distracted, like, what comes up for you, what shows itself in those, you know, dark, quiet moments where there might be your biggest dreams that you aren't able to admit, they might be your biggest fears that you, that you, you know, you hide so deep.

But that is the, the core of who we are.

Right.

If you're comfortable and able to share those things that only show up in those really, you know, deep, quiet moments that we almost never share, there they are what make you you, and they are what make your future life so incredibly, you know, fulfilling.

So don't hide from those things.

And if it's going to take you time to open up, so be it.

But explore them.

So I just, I recommend people ask those deeper questions, make it a safe space to explore the things that we carry.

And it usually is by sharing what you've gone through like this, I'm willing to share some pretty vulnerable things right off the bat.

And what I found is the people in the room are then willing to open up really quickly knowing that there's trust and safety.

So that's how I would really recommend people try to approach a little bit more depth in their likes.

Yeah, yeah, great suggestion.

And I'm sure it bring loads of really deep and interesting conversations.

Yeah.

If people want to keep up to date with you and find more about you, where can they find you?

Online?

Yeah, absolutely.

So you can find me on my website, which is jaspercalcara.com My Instagram is jaspercalcara official.

If you search my name in YouTube, you'll find, um, me there.

And then I'm also working on a book, you know, that that'll be coming and I'll be promoting a little bit in the, you know, later year or whatnot.

So, yeah, super excited just to help in any way I can.

If there's anything that I've touched on that, you know, has inspired a question or a thought, you know, I just love to, to help in any way I can and it's been incredible conversation with you.

Amazing Jasper.

Thank you so much.

I really appreciated your time today and love the conversation.

Hopefully you as a listener have enjoyed this conversation too.

And if you have anything someone you know would find some value from it, please do share it with them.

If you haven't already.

Wherever you're listening or watching, please do follow or subscribe to the show as it really helps the show grow and reach new people.

But lastly, for me, thank you for listening.

Stay curious and I will see you in the next one.

Sa.