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Episode 8: Let's End Hustle Culture & Internalized Capitalism [featuring Dr. Liz Slonena]
Episode 83rd January 2022 • All Things Private Practice Podcast • Patrick Casale
00:00:00 00:27:52

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It's 2022, and a lot of us are setting goals and resolutions. AND a lot of us are still feeling like we're not doing enough... regardless of how much you're actually doing and accomplishing.

Do you find yourself often thinking that you're going to need to hustle and grind until the day you die?

A lot of us, struggle to separate our next accomplishment from our self-worth, myself included.

In this episode, I talk with Dr. Liz Slonena, EMDR therapist, hypnotherapist, and badass social media influencer.

We talk about...

  • Hustle Culture and Internalized Capitalism
  • Self-Worth and Achievement
  • Feeling like you're never doing enough
  • Tips to slow down, take a step back, and use hypnosis for mindful self-compassion

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More about Dr. Liz Slonena, PsyD:

Dr. Liz Slonena (slow-nin-nah) is a licensed psychologist, wellness Youtuber, and mindful hypnotherapist in Asheville, North Carolina. As a recovering perfectionist with ADHD, she is passionate about helping other entrepreneurs give the middle finger to perfectionism so that they can work less and live more vibrantly. Dr. Liz is the co-creator of Brief Mindful Hypnosis, a research-backed approach to rapidly overcome stress to help you feel more calm, creative, & confident. With more than 10 years of clinical research experience & over a dozen studies published, Liz is unapologetically nerdy. A few of her favorite research collaborations include investigating ketamine as a rapid anti-depressant, pioneering an adaptive dissociation and hypnotizability scale, and conducting pilot studies on Mindful Hypnotherapy. When she isn’t recording meditation tracks for Youtube or wellness apps, Liz enjoys playing video games, painting, kickboxing, and frolicking in the Blue Ridge Mountains.

Follow @dr.lizlistens for relatable memes & psychology things!

Liz has a SPECIAL OFFER for listeners of the All Things Private Practice Podcast:

Gifting free & premium access to Aura, an all-in-one wellness app that features hypnosis, meditations, health coaching, journaling, mood tracking & more. Do you have a hashtag? Listeners can follow me on IG or Facebook and message me your hashtag to get their premium access code!


You can find more of Liz here:

💌 Website:www.drlizlistens.com

💌 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrLizListens

💌 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.lizlistens

💌 YouTube: https://youtu.be/Pz0YyIhq1WAe


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🎙️ Listen to more episodes of the All Things Private Practice Podcast here:

www.allthingspractice.com/all-things-private-practice-podcast

🗨️ Join the All Things Private Practice FB Community: www.facebook.com/groups/privatepracticebuilding

Transcripts

PATRICK CASALE: Hey everyone, you are listening to the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I am your host, Patrick Casale, in Asheville, North Carolina, joined today by Dr. Liz Slonena. She is a PsyD and psychologist here in Asheville, and I'm really excited to have her on here. She's doing some really cool stuff with hypnosis. She does EMDR. She is always making ridiculously funny TikTok and Facebook videos to watch. I just really appreciate you being on today.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Thanks, Patrick. I'm really honored and happy to be here today.

PATRICK CASALE: I didn't butcher your name like I thought I was going to before we started.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: It's late in the day and my brain is barely working. I'm happy to have you on. I wanted to talk about some cool stuff that you're doing. We'll get to that in a little bit. But I think you and I were going to talk about grind culture and anti-capitalism. Honestly, the burnout rate in our profession right now is so fucking high. It probably has never been higher due to COVID, due to everything else in our culture right now and our world. Talk to us a little bit about, when you submitted the topic, I was excited for that, because I think it's really important to start addressing and really having some communication around this.

ne. It sounds like [CROSSTALK:

PATRICK CASALE: I was going to ask you what self-care was. I was like, what the fuck is self-care?

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Yeah. What is that? What are hobbies? What's a social life? Sometimes it just goes out the window, and how can we provide the words of wisdom to our clients to settle down, to be still, to relax, to actually have fun, play, when we can't do that ourselves? And it brings up a lot of issues too, is like, shit, am I really being true to my word? Am I being honest with myself? And it is hard when the culture of being a modern therapist now, especially, being an entrepreneur, is pressure to do all the things: Start a podcast, be on social media, have a newsletter, or LISTSERV, or have your own Facebook group. The list goes on, and on, and on. Oh, and on top of being a therapist, seeing clients, and doing those darn CEUs too.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah and where the hell do you fit life into that?

DR. LIZ SLONENA: You don't.

PATRICK CASALE: We don't practice what we preach, typically, in our profession. I think that we're really good at talking about self-care. We are really good at motivating other people to take care of themselves. And then, when we flip the script, and we have to look in the mirror, we're like, “Oh, no, I can't stop working. And I've got to keep hustling. I've got to be visible, I can't stop.” I struggle with that from time to time, where I'm, “Holy shit. I can't turn this off. Like, I have to be visible, I have to moderate my Facebook group, I've got to do a pod.” Everything, right? Like, we've got to do it all. Do you ever feel that way with some of the social media stuff that you're doing? Because you're pretty visible right now.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Right, yeah. I totally feel that and I am starting to really pause and ask myself, why the fuck am I doing this in the first place? And it has been like the strange aspect too, because I started my Instagram like a year ago, as well as my YouTube account a year ago, too. I was very inconsistent with it, and the growth was just not there. And so, when things started ramping up, I made a commitment to myself of, “Okay, I'm going to post every day on Instagram.” And yeah, sure, that ended up with a lot of followers, and growth in that way. And at first, it was really exciting, and it was also really exciting as someone with ADHD to actually be consistent for the first time in my fucking life. And then, it was like, “Oh, shit. This is soul-draining.” That pressure of, I need to do this, or else I'll lose followers, or I'll not be seen, I'll be invisible. And also, just really taking a step back and being like, “Wait, why? Why am I doing this? You know, how is this serving me now?” And really starting to realize, “Okay, do I really need to be showing up every single day?”

Because like you were saying, Patrick, it is so hard to turn off to be an actual human, not a therapist human, or just a therapist on social media, and actually just put the phone down, and relax, and just play.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it is really hard. As another entrepreneur who has ADHD, I get it because we lose interest so quickly. And when we're in it, we're in it. We are so invested, we're so excited. This is the best thing ever. And you can lose yourself in that.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Oh, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: The constant need and drive to stay relevant, to be visible, to show up when people are on Instagram, or on Facebook, or come up quicker, and at the forefront of people's feeds. That takes a lot of energy. I think you're right, like, what is this all for, right? It's okay to be visible, it's okay to brand, and do all the things, but how do we channel that, and find balance? Because like you're saying, being playful, having fun. What are we doing this for? Am I doing this so I can never enjoy my life, or my downtime, or even feel like I know how to put the phone away, or step away from being responsive. That's really hard for me.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Oh, yeah, for me as well that responsiveness. I don't know if it's my ADHD brain, but Instagram, going in through my DMs, and responding to people's posts and messages, holy shit, that's like the hardest thing I can do. I'm so sorry if people have been messaged me, I’ve just completely blanked my mind. But it is this constant kind of necessity to be on, to be Uber responsive, and to be a machine, and not a human. It is kind of that curse of being there, of being visible, and being available at all times. I don't think you would prescribe that for any of your clients because it is so draining. Again, with all the research as far as productivity, of well-being is taking breaks is the most important thing that you can do for yourself and creativity.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, and I think when we take breaks, give ourselves space, that's when creativity starts to come up and manifest, and those really good ideas can start to percolate a little bit. We can't do that when we're just moving from thing, to thing, to thing. I think so often as therapists we do that. We overbook ourselves, we feel guilty when we turn someone away. We have to fit another client in today because I need to make money, or they really need to see me, and maybe I feel responsible. And then, all of a sudden you're like, “Did I even eat lunch today? I don't even know if I've spoken to another human being who wasn't a client of mine.”

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Yes, and I think too with just neurodivergence and ADHD brains, we do oscillate between being bored, and then being over-committed, and overwhelmed, and not knowing what that balance is, to create space, to create ideas to percolate. I don't know if you've ever experienced this before, being so damn bored that you just over commit to everything because it's new, exciting, the dopamine is flowing, and they're like, “Oh, fuck, how am I going to get this all done? What did I do to myself?”

PATRICK CASALE: What ends up happening to you when you over-commit like that? What instinctually you see it on your calendar start to pop up and your instinct is what?

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Work more, it's terrible. When I'm already overworked, I tend to work even more just to prevent myself from going in flat out burnout, exhaustion. It's not really sustainable, and I've been really trying to say no to over commitments, and bright new shiny opportunities, and things. But I won't lie, I'm in the thick of it right now. There's a lot of cool things that I committed to months ago, and like, “Well, shit, it's all coming to an end.”

PATRICK CASALE: See, I do the same thing, and I see my schedule, and I'm like, I get frustrated, and I get irritable, and I'm like, “But I created this. Like, I am the one who gets to create my own schedule. I'm a small business owner. Nobody is doing this for me.” And I'm like, “Why am I going from therapist hat, to coach hat, to podcast, to networking lunch or coffee in a day?” It's just exhausting, and I find myself doing exactly what you said, is go into workaholism mode with tunnel vision, and I'm like, I've got to work more, I've got to work more otherwise, I am burnt out.

But what I start to notice when I get really irritable, when I start to look at my schedule, and it doesn't look like it works for me, I've got to check out. I've got to disappear a little bit from human beings. I've got to put my phone away, I've got to put my laptop away. And usually, what it leads to is binge-watching Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit movies on repeat. If my wife comes home, and any of those are on, she's like, “Oh, like, I'm not going to talk to you for like the next day and a half.’ And I'm like, “Yes, leave me the hell alone. I need to recharge.” But we shouldn't allow ourselves to get to that place, but we do so often.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: I'm so glad that you brought that up too as far as the hustle, hustle, hustle, and then just crash, burnout, binge all the Lord of the Rings kind of movies, too. I'm with that with video games. I'm just like, locked into my hole, I don't look at my cell phone, or anything. I just disappear from my friends and family. And they're like, “Wait, what happened to Liz, where'd she go?” I’m like, “Sorry, I'm just so burnt out. I'm like in negative battery mode right now. I need to recharge my batteries.” But that aspect too of we are our own boss, we make our own schedule. And yet, sometimes we are our worst boss. Would you ever do that to one of your employees? Probably not.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I own a group practice, and I do not ask my employees to work outside of the hours they want to work, and I don't text them work stuff outside of those hours. I want to. There’re many times where I'm like, “Ooh, idea.” Or, “Ooh, I need to communicate this.” But that's what schedule send is for. Get the idea, schedule send the text message. Don't do it that night for them. But you're right, I wouldn't prescribe that for them. Why do we do that for ourselves? I think, as a culture helpers really tend to overextend. We tend to people-please, we really struggle with saying no, we want to accommodate everyone except for ourselves. How do you combat this? What would you prescribe your clients that you would like to also do for yourself? What kind of coping skills or strategies do you typically suggest?

DR. LIZ SLONENA: I love that, and there's all my clients this week, I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and other health professionals too. And with them, I prescribed them, and this isn’t a thing that I created. I forgot who the dude is, who created this, but it's add one, subtract one, and it's add one pleasurable, joyful activity to your schedule, and literally schedule it in, that first and then remove something that is draining from you, work-related. Yeah, it is very challenging to be, wait, I have to remove something? I have to do one less work-related activity? And it is so interesting to see my clients and even myself be, “Oh, wait, I don't want to lose this thing.” But it is kind of like that balancing act that we really want to move towards harmony and remove something, so you don't get into this hellhole of over-commitment and overwhelm.

And aside from that kind of activity of just noticing that urge to do more, that's kind of knee jerk reaction to over-commit, overwork when you're already overworked and overcommitted. For me, as well as my clients too, I love teaching them mindful hypnosis and mindful self-hypnosis too, as this is a great relaxation strategy, as well as an energizing strategy too, to really get quiet, to really get settled, and really come back to your why, like, why the fuck are you doing this in the first place? And really kind of staying true to yourself, and your values, and realize, okay, maybe I don't really need to do this thing here today, maybe I just want to sit here, and enjoy the stillness for five minutes, and really kind of recharge your batteries in that opportunity too.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I like both of those strategies. So, add one, subtract one, try to find a way to pencil in or schedule in something pleasurable, something that you enjoy doing, regardless of what it is, right? It doesn't have to be productive, because we need to stop thinking that positive self-care’s productivity. You could be binge-watching a show, you could step away and go to a restaurant you really like, you could go for a walk with your dogs. It doesn't matter. But try to add something in that really feels good for you. I get that the subtraction is hard, because thinking about that I'm like, “Ooh. Like, what would I remove, right?” But then I think, is it really important to respond to messages at all hours of the day? Absolutely not, and by doing so, we're really not creating healthy boundaries either, and we're allowing ourselves to be over-extended, and over-responsive to people too. I think I like the intention setting too, with the hypnosis, starting your day with that or ending your day with that, and really getting clear on your intentions, and the why question, right? The why question is really important.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Exactly, and to come back to your center, to come back to your why, when hell is swirling around you it’s so important to really redirect your course of action, and holding that intention at the start of your day, especially with ADHD minds can really help you move towards success, instead of getting into rabbit holes, or black holes of your interest and hyper-focusing too.

PATRICK CASALE: Totally, I can't tell you how many days I start off with intention to do something pleasurable, like call a friend, check something online that I want to actually follow through with, text someone I'm meaning to communicate with, all of a sudden, I start answering emails, and phone calls, and work messages. And I don't even remember what my intention was at the beginning of the day, and then I'm wrapped up in it. And I'm like, what is happening? I don't even know how I got here. And then, again, I have no one to blame but myself. So, really trying hard to be more intentional with how we go about going through the motions in our day and not just allowing the day to control us.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Yes, and you're right, it is so hard. I've been there nearly every day myself. And so, it is kind of this challenge of you have all these bright, shiny ideas, and bright, shiny responsibilities, and really use your brain rather than your brain using you.

PATRICK CASALE: Right, absolutely. Very good point. Yeah, I think we need to do better as a, not just societal, but in our culture of in our profession. We've got to do better. We've got to practice what we preach. We've got to really work on ourselves and our self-care because otherwise, we're no good to anyone. And then, we're just on to the next thing, on to the next thing, and it just never feels satisfying either. Because it's like what is my next accomplishment? I've done it, checked it off the list, move on to the next one, because that's what I'm supposed to do. And I think that we also correlate, and connect, and associate self-worth with productivity.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Yes, and I'm so glad that you brought that up, of internalized capitalism where, yes, capitalism is in our veins of our country, unfortunately. But because it is so systemic, it's so visible and invisible at the same time. That's inherent self-worth linked to productivity what you make, what you create. That is internalized capitalism, and that capitalism at its roots, unfortunately, is rooted in racism and white supremacy of taking advantage of slave labor, and minorities, and for other individuals who are not white cisgendered men. And it's terrible as health professionals, as proponents of social justice to fall in the same exact trap, to demand more of ourselves, and even connect ourselves to our work. It is so hard to let go of that, because whenever you probably meet someone new, what's the first thing you ask? You probably ask-

PATRICK CASALE: What do you do?

DR. LIZ SLONENA: What do you do for a living? Yeah-

PATRICK CASALE: What do you do for a living? I did that yesterday, actually. And, it was such a default question and… I didn't even really care about the answer. It was just like when you pass someone in the hallway, and you say, “Hey, how are you.” But you don't really care. You just keep walking, and you're, “I'm good. I'm good.” And then you go on about your day. It's such a default, deeply ingrained question, response and thought process of, we associate our value and we associate who we are even with what we do.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: That is a trap, because if that is your identity, your worth, you forget all the other things and aspects of yourself of who makes who you are you. There's other kind of labels, and I'm sure like acceptance and commitment therapy comes to mind, of like, selfless context, capital S self of who are you if you didn't have your job? Who are you if you didn't have the degrees that you've earned? And most people are like, “Fuck, I have no idea. I don't even know what my hobbies are anymore.”

PATRICK CASALE: Sure, yeah, absolutely. You're spot on. It's like, we go into that mode, and we're almost trying to prove ourselves too, like, look how much I've accomplished, look how much I do. And that's really not healthy. And even in my life, right? I have so many people now that I'm doing all the things and I'm guilty of this, but people will say, “It's amazing how much you've created this year. It's amazing how much you do, and how much work output you have.” And I'm like, “Yeah, there's a fucking cost to this. Like, this is maybe on the outside looking in, really glamorous.” And like, “Oh, my God, look at all this creation.” But on the other side, it's like hanging on by a thread, exhaustion, depletion, just complete utter burnout, then there is that internalized message of, “But you have to keep going, you have to do the next thing.”

I vividly remember playing in a big, big soccer tournament during Labor Day, being utterly physically and emotionally exhausted. We ended up winning, it was awesome, and laying in bed Monday. I couldn't even move physically, I was just so tired. And in my mind, the message in the narrative was, “You're being lazy, you are not answering phone calls, you're not answering emails, you could be doing something in your business.” And that was like an internal struggle all fucking day where it was like this is torturous, this needs to stop.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: It really is. Oh my gosh, I can completely resonate with that. And I hear this time and time again with my clients that they finally get a break, they finally are able to take that vacation that they've been dreaming of, have been really vying for, and then they can't relax. They're so on edge. They're like, “Fuck, fuck, fuck I got to do. Oh no, what happens? Oh, no, I'm losing so much money because I'm not seeing clients or doing all the things, and what will happen when I come back? Will there be another recess on my Facebook group?” And it is so hard, because just like you kind of mentioned, Patrick, you are rewarded for all the things that you've done, everything that you've created, and it's not as maybe reinforcing when you do take a break when you do relax. Even if it's one day a week, it's like, “Well, shit, this feels weird.” And some people even have kind of allergic reaction to even the word relaxation or doing nothing, because for years, they've been trained probably from grad school days, or even predating that to do, do, do, hustle, hustle, hustle, or you're a big piece of lazy shit just sitting around doing nothing.

PATRICK CASALE: That's exactly right. It's like when we think about nothing, and stillness, and relaxation, I think the negative connotation, and label, and association is laziness. It's that you are being lazy. You are not being productive. Why are you being a lazy piece of shit, right? And that is not only intrinsic and internalized. It's externalized too. We hear that from other sources, so then we start to really absorb that and say, “Yeah, what is wrong with me? Why do I need a day off? Why do I feel so tired? Why do I feel so depressed or anxious?” That stuff is real and even when you just said stillness and relaxation, I noticed a reaction in my body where I was like, “Ooh, I don't think I can sit still. There's something wrong there.” I'm really working on that. But it's really uncomfortable.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: It is really hard, and it just makes me think about other professions, even other health professions where I don't believe that hustle, that grind, the people-pleasing, the responding to clients that are not even ours, it's not as present. They are happy to take a vacation off. There's no kind of doubt that, yeah, I'm going to take a month vacation, and my clients, they'll fend for themselves. They got it. They have referrals. But we are kind of so, sometimes entrenched in our work, also to the point too that I don't know if this has ever happened to you, Patrick, but a hobby that we thought started as a hobby for fun, enjoyment and play becomes a hustle, your hobby becomes making more money, hobby becomes making YouTube videos, or meditations like myself.

e are, again, [INDISCERNIBLE:

PATRICK CASALE: You're so right. It's funny because even as we're doing this podcast, it's for enjoyment. But we're also kind of working because we're both going to promote it. We want visibility, and it's just like it never stops. And you're right, hobbies become hustles, they become side hustles, then all of a sudden, they're no fun. My wife started a clay earring business, and she's very artistic, very creative. She does it for fun, and me, I'm like, “All right, we've got to get it on an Etsy page. You got to apply to more markets in the area. Like, we can sell it this way and market it this way.” She's like, “No, like, I'm just doing this for fun.” And I'm like, “Huh, what does that even mean?”

DR. LIZ SLONENA: That's so refreshing when you have someone, especially, your wife to be like, “No, I'm just doing this for fun. I don't care how much money I make. I'm just enjoying it for what it is.” I think that the money struggles, and the money mindset, especially, as mental health professionals that we fall into, yeah, it makes sense that our brain automatically goes to okay, how can I turn this hobby into a hustle and make money?

PATRICK CASALE: Yep, so moral of the story is, we're not alone, right? Anyone listening to this right now, you're not alone if this resonates for you, if this lands, if you feel like you can't turn it off, but you can't stop, but you want to. I would ask you to try to check in with your parts. If you are familiar with IFS or Parts Work, check in with the parts that are saying you can't stop, your value is based on your achievements, or your accomplishments, or how much you do. And then, check in with the part that's like, I am so exhausted, I just need rest. And really try to give that part some love, and some nurturing, some compassion, because our parts that are really deeply rooted in terms of protecting ourselves, it's hard to kind of break that mold. I just want to really encourage that. It's very exhausting to go through this. And I know a lot of therapists who are expanding into entrepreneurs in different arenas, and I applaud you, I'm one of them, Liz is one of them. I love it. But we have to find balance. We have to find a way to step away from what we're doing.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Love that and I love how you're integrating Parts Work, and IFS, and I'm just so curious too, what is the image of your workaholic park, if it has an image? What is it?

PATRICK CASALE: I'm so bad at imagery. My therapist asked me that. She’s like, “What do you want to name your workaholic part?” Or like, “How does it look?” I'm like, “I don't fucking know. I just know it exists.” But if I had to think about the image, it's mean, it's ugly. I think about like, I'm thinking about another Lord of the Rings reference because the poster is behind me, but I see these goblins in the tunnel, and they're whipping each other to keep doing more work, and build more tunnels. I'm like, that's what it looks like. It's just non-stop, and it's so fucking mean. And it just gives you these messages of, “You're not good enough. You're kind of worthless. Like you're incompetent, you need to do more, improve more of yourself for like, validation.” And that stuff is so painful. I imagine so many of us experience that to some degree. What about you? Do you think about your workaholism part? What does that look like?

DR. LIZ SLONENA: I love how very similar to yours there's whips involved. My workaholic part is a stage coach. But a really, really mean stage coach of like just holding the reins of all these horses with these crazy-ass whips going everywhere, and just going full speed ahead. And there’s like something really important, and valuable in that stagecoach that they're holding, but the horses are exhausted. That other part is just so freaking exhausted. It wants to stop and take a break. It just wants to be free. But that mean, critical, ruthless, stagecoach is just whipping them to oblivion. Again, those kind of thoughts of you can't stop, you have to keep going. This is not good enough. How dare you even think that you could do this? You are way too young. You need to be more mature, and all these terrible internal messages, like ooh. Even right now I’m like, “Oh, my gosh. Can't believe that it's like spewing out.” It is so entrenched, and we're certainly not alone. Because I wonder if anyone else resonates with these kinds of images, or the inner critic, or the imposter syndrome that inevitably will show up in this brave and fierce work that we're doing too,

PATRICK CASALE: It's really well said, and I appreciate you sharing that with everyone. And I want everyone to think about that, what does that part look like for you? And how can we take back some of the power to combat that part, to make it less scary, to make it a little bit more muted? It may still be there. But how do we silence it just a little bit? Maybe giving it a funny name, maybe giving it a funny voice? And again, turning back to play and trying to incorporate playfulness into your life even in small doses. I think we just lose sight of that so often and how powerful the tool is when we realize like we're really trying to heal inner child wounds here. Like, we're really trying to heal attachment trauma. And we do so by being more playful and kind of dropping into that headspace

DR. LIZ SLONENA: Exactly, and that's why I honor my inner child by playing all the video games that I want to play, and watch all the anime I want to watch. I think another inspiration for just play, I have two very large dogs, and they are the most playful animals I've ever met. And just seeing them just like I don't know where just start and playing, being goofy. There's no rhyme or reason they just do it. And it's such a helpful reminder to be like, “Oh, if they can just run down the hallway and be a big old goofball, so can I.

PATRICK CASALE: Animals, and especially dogs, they’re such a good reminder of just constant joy, and just always having a good time. And it's really a beautiful thing to just be able to embrace that too. Yeah, I think these are all good suggestions. And for anyone listening, I really hope that you're able to incorporate some of them and detach how you view yourself in terms of how much you work and how much output that you have. Yeah, I think this is a very valuable conversation that probably needs to be ongoing and continuous. I appreciate you talking about this today, Liz, it means a lot.

I do want to pivot real quick, and I want to highlight some of the cool stuff that you're doing in all of the kind of ventures that you've got going on right now. Tell everyone that's listening where they can find more of you.

DR. LIZ SLONENA: I have my website, drlizlistens.com. And I'm also on most social media platforms. So, that's TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and you can find me at Dr. Liz Listens. So it's D-R-.- L-I-Z L-I-S-T-E-N-S. And there you'll find relatable reels, memes, and other kind of goofy, silly stuff. But if you are interested and experiencing mindful hypnosis for deep relaxation, and even activation, feel free to reach me out on one of those social media platforms. And I can give you a free trial of Aura, a wellness app that I'm collaborating with so you can experience what it is like to actually relax and feel better about yourself.

PATRICK CASALE: Love it. If any of you didn't catch that all of those links will be in the podcast description, so that you'll have access to them, to click on them, to pay attention to them, to follow Liz on social media, and to really get in tune with mindful hypnosis and just relaxation techniques to combat some of this stuff. Liz, I really appreciate having you on today. For everyone listening please feel free to download, subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find more of me at allthingspractice.com or the Facebook group, All Things Private Practice. Follow me on here, follow me on social media and we will see you next Monday. Everyone, have a good week.