Shownotes
Here are the top key takeaway concepts from this episode of "Common Sense Ohio":
**Recent lawsuit and FOIA revelations - Biden administration ADMITS flying 320,000 migrants secretly into the U.S. to reduce the number of crossings at the border has national security 'vulnerabilities'
**The discussion around TSA pre-check and airline security led to a broader criticism of the effectiveness of such systems, as well as concerns over their influence on civil liberties.
**Responsiveness to Crime and Policing**: A local incident involving a truck and subsequent police inaction led to a broader dialogue on crime and its impact on society, including the costs of increased insurance rates and the complexities of law enforcement.
**Questions on Life's Beginning and Embryo Research**: The Alabama Supreme Court’s Ruling on Frozen Embryos - The hosts deliberated over the debates surrounding abortion legislation, the inception of life, and how these contentious issues intersect with fields like infertility treatment and experimental research.
**Law Evolution**: The conversation underscored the importance of adapting laws in step with societal change, indicating that the emergence of new definitions requires careful integration into legal systems.
**Historical Perspectives on Current Events**: By referencing the Lend-Lease Act of 1941 and its contemporary counterpart pertaining to Ukraine, the hosts offered insights on the cyclical nature of geopolitical strategies.
**Gun Regulation and Sports**: The hosts deliberated on the implications of firearm regulations for Olympic sports athletes, criticizing England's stringent gun club rules and exploring gun permit dynamics across various jurisdictions.
**The Balance of Presidential Immunity and Accountability**: The debate around the prosecution of former presidents, including a discussion on criminal intent and its implications for political figures, spotlighted the complexity of preserving the integrity of the presidential office while ensuring justice.
These takeaways encapsulate the vibrant discussions that Norm, Steve, and Brett engaged in, demonstrating their commitment to dissecting pressing issues with depth and a common-sense perspective.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Common Sense Ohio brings clarity in chaos.
06:33 Clarifying statements about sanctuary cities and legislation.
20:54 Michigan law requires gun permits from sheriff.
26:20 Alabama court rules human embryo equals unborn child.
30:08 Advancing technology shifts standards for infant viability.
36:12 Common law evolved over many years.
41:52 Supreme Court should decide the Trump issue sooner.
43:48 Discussing prosecuting a president for specific crimes.
51:15 Prosecutorial discretion is powerful but imperfect.
55:06 Supreme Court, prosecute Trump, duty, fair election.
01:03:45 Questioning the effectiveness of potential new construction zone driving laws.
01:04:48 Enforcing laws to balance freedom and safety.
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Transcripts
Well, here we are again, March 8, 2024. Who'd have thought? We're almost through the Q1 of the year, and you must be thinking, man, nothing makes any sense at all. Well, we've got the tonic right here at Common Sense Ohio because we're bringing common sense to a world that has seemingly turned upside down. There is no common sense anymore, except for here, right here at 5:11, studio c with commonsense ohio show dot com. For those who wanna get the back episodes, wanna check out biographies and everything else, Common Sense Ohio. You go to commonsense ohioshow.com, and there, it's really easy. It it is remarkable how many people ask me, well, it's a podcast. How do I get it? And I think so many people are used to just go into YouTube and listening to whatever they listen to or, I I don't know where they're getting it, but you should go subscribe.
Steve Palmer [:And we make it easy by going to commonsenseohioshow.com. There are links. There are little buttons that you click, for those like I, who are, maybe a little tech unsavvy. We make it simple, Because as I say, I I like to make things simple and almost everything can be made simple. And we have done that at commonsenseohioshow.com. Also, check us out at Facebook where, we are posting and streaming clips and videos and all sorts of stuff, and all the other mainstream and maybe not so mainstream platforms. Norm is joining us from Texas, and, apparently, there is a Texas flood. See what I did there? We just talked about Stevie Ray Vaughan.
Brett Johnson [:Stevie Ray Vaughan.
Steve Palmer [:There you go.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Jig it. Well, they need the rain here because of that, that wildfire that destroyed all those cattle and all that farmland. So, when I was in Arkansas coming into the Panhandle, you could smell the, you could smell the smoke. Even in the middle of a rainstorm, that's how thick it must have been. So well,
Steve Palmer [:I'll take a couple seconds to talk about our sponsor, Harper Plus Accounting. And I just spent, I don't know, an hour on the phone with Harper Plus and, Glenn over there getting my taxes for the year taken care of both business and personal. How about that, Norm? Because I have Harper Plus Accounting, not only are my business returns done, my personal returns are also done.
Norm Murdock [:Wow. And we're
Steve Palmer [:not talking about April 15 at the midnight hour, clicking the extension button. We're talking done and done. I know how much I owe. I know how much I paid. I know how much I'm going to owe next year. How about that?
Norm Murdock [:That's that's fabulous.
Steve Palmer [:All because of Harper Plus accounting. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. To have that relief, you know, to have that, burden, you know, out of your head is is just a huge burden off your shoulder.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And anybody who runs a small operation, runs a small business, you realize how important that is. And and I think the most important thing, I think a lot why a lot of us sort of stick our head in the sand is because we don't know if we're gonna owe money or we're afraid that we're gonna owe money and we're not gonna have it. Well, a couple things. The extension is not gonna save your bacon on that one. You still have to have money. You still gotta pay that on April 15th. But I didn't have that worry.
Steve Palmer [:Why? Because with Harper Plus Accountants, I was able to plan for this moment back last year at this time. They said, alright. You're gonna probably need x amount of dollars to put away his estimates. And then in December, they're gonna say, look, we paid your estimates. You're up to speed. I I had to make some moves to liquidate some investments and do some other things. So I had some capital gains or investment income coming, turned out to be ordinary income, much to my chagrin. But I had the money saved, not thinking, alright, I've only got this amount saved if it's gonna be capital gains rate.
Steve Palmer [:I saved it at or ordinary income rate. Why? Because they told me to. And then it was easy. It was it was a it was a simple plan. I was very intentional about it. Every week, I put away a little bit of money, and now I can write the check. And I can write it today if I wanted, or I can wait until April 15, which I'm going to do, because I'm never gonna give the government money too soon. But, that's all thanks to Harper Plus Accounting.
Steve Palmer [:So as we jump into the March 8 show, I wanna talk a little bit about World War 2. And sort of like last week, I I didn't I didn't jump into some battle history or something like that. What what's interesting to me is in 1941, Norm, the US Senate passes the land lease bill by 60 votes to 31. Or not I forgive me. I said land lease. I meant lend lease. And the lend lease bill was this is back in the days of World War 2, and Roosevelt, I think he secretly wanted to enter the war, but he was telling everybody that we weren't gonna enter the war, World War 2 that is. Yet he had Churchill crawling up his backside saying, hey, look, we need you guys.
Steve Palmer [:We need the power of the US democracy to at least fund us. And this was, I think, sort of a compromise. And Roosevelt actually says in his speech, we're not gonna send your kids over to war. We're not gonna send our men or boys over there to fight a foreign war. Of course, we did. And Japan took care of that problem shortly after, or, you know, within months. Yeah. But
Norm Murdock [:2 2 generations in a row. Yeah. You know? Because because we were obviously in World War 1.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And then Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And the American public's like, okay. We did that show. Right? That we don't wanna go back.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Right. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And what's interesting about that is that sort of set a precedent because in, in May, May 9, 2022, President Joe Biden signed into law the Ukrainian Democracy Defense Lend Lease Act of 2022, And, it sort of revitalized it. Now what's interesting though is that for all sorts of reasons, the way the Lend Lease Act works, we quickly came up with other strategies to supply arms and money and whatever resources to the Ukraine outside the Lendly Act. But, you know, it's sort of, it's an interesting little, I guess, history repeats itself a little bit. So we, in theory, we're supposed to get money back and and do it's never gonna happen, of course. But
Norm Murdock [:Like like like, we got our money back in Afghanistan.
Steve Palmer [:Exactly. Right. Right. Right. So, the Lend Lease Act was, was the precedent was created by Roosevelt in 1941 on this day. I guess, there's other things going on. There was, some secret negotiations by the OSS and the Nazis in, Barents, Switzerland, about negotiating the surrender of the Germans in in, in Italy. But, you know, this was this was in 1945.
Steve Palmer [:It was getting towards the end of the war anyway. So, with that, I think there's lots to jump into. We had George Pardos from, Vet Radio Syndicate or Vet Syndicate Radio, whatever it is, last week. So we didn't cover the news like we would normally cover. What's, so we better catch up and and hit it, Norm. What you got?
Norm Murdock [:Well, that you know, we always, you know, when when we say something like, like I like I did about the, IRS deadline, in the one show, we'd like to correct it prominently. It turns out, in I think it was last week or the week before, we were talking a little bit about, sanctuary cities. And I did a little research to clarify some things that we had said, and, it turns out that on the federal immigration website currently, it shows, Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati as, sanctuary cities, and it defines what that means. And it talks about, legislation that those councils had passed in those cities, restricting police powers to cooperate with ICE and, in other in other things.
Steve Palmer [:So Sanctuary City, Jimmy, just I hate to cut you out. Let me cut you off anyway. Go ahead. Yeah. Sanctuary City, you said to get a definition of it. To me, it's just Orwellian double speak for we're not gonna follow the federal law.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. I mean I mean, local police cooperate with federal officials enforcing federal laws, you know, like kidnapping and interstate stuff, and they do it all the time. The only area where where police are are being told that they can't cooperate is with illegal immigration. It's it's inexplicable. It's you know, they used to say, like, 30 years ago when Clinton was president, they used to say things like, well, we don't wanna intimidate illegals from reporting crime because if they report crime to the local police, they're afraid they're gonna get deported even if they're victims of the crime. And I get that. I get I get that.
Norm Murdock [:So so you're an illegal mom, and, somebody breaks into your, apartment, and you wanna report that crime to the local police. Well, you don't wanna be deported. So, I I mean, I get that. But at the same time, now with Biden flying in 1 third of a 1000000 illegals, by airplane.
Steve Palmer [:I'm glad you brought that up because I was gonna bring that up. So tell tell us that story. This this is sort of remarkable. So It's remarkable. Biden is is sending airplanes to fly people in so it doesn't look like so many people are coming over the border. Is that basically the gist of
Norm Murdock [:it? That's basically the gist of it. It it I mean, that's one theory. The other theory is he's been bitching about DeSantis and Abbott, sending a few buses up north when that's only 15% of moving the southern border illegals up north. The feds have done the other 85% of relocation, and this flying them in to 43 different airports on federal money, on tax dollars.
Steve Palmer [:Now hold on. Are the flights starting outside the US border?
Norm Murdock [:Yes. They are.
Steve Palmer [:That is what is so remarkable to me. And it was a secret. It wasn't public. That's right. And these are people who are otherwise ill
Norm Murdock [:to to to claim sanctuary.
Steve Palmer [:Easier for them to get in the country than it was for me to get in the country after, like, a Mexico trip.
Norm Murdock [:There's actually an app that they use to get on these flights, and and the 1 third of a 1000000 is just 2023 statistic. We don't know what they've done in 21 or 22 or what they're doing right now. This is
Steve Palmer [:Like, how this isn't outrageous how this isn't outrageous to everybody in the country, I I don't understand. I just don't get it. I don't get it.
Norm Murdock [:E e Elon Musk called it treason. He said this is treason. I mean, we just we just impeached Mayorkas. And Mayorkas, you know, secretary of homeland. Mayorkas was telling everybody that the border's under control. Meanwhile, he knows this is going on, that they're flying people in to 43 different airports. I don't know if Ohio's on the list. I bet it is.
Steve Palmer [:Probably is.
Norm Murdock [:Right? Probably is. Using an app. You're on your phone. You know? Like, you go to you go to customs and border patrol or homeland security, and you enter in your data, and then they buy you a ticket and bring your ass in.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Norm Murdock [:I don't care. Look. Again
Steve Palmer [:So couple this couple this, if you will, with, like,
Norm Murdock [:They're coming from Norway. Right, Steve? Let let let's let let's get rid of the racial bullshit because people like to, oh,
Steve Palmer [:you Oh, you don't like brown people. Blah blah blah blah.
Norm Murdock [:I don't care if they're coming from Norway.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:I don't Right. Right. Come on, people. We're talking about the law of the land. And how would you feel if you're a Frenchman or a or a or a Norse a Norwegian lady and you're doing everything right, and you're in line, and then you find out a third of a 1000000 are just, like, jumping the line. Jumping in.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Just coming on in. But and not only jumping the line, Norm, but jumping the like, jumping the requirements. So it's like you know, I I gotta tell
Norm Murdock [:you. Unfair.
Steve Palmer [:And if you couple this, couple this for a second with Gavin Newsom's proposed absurd minimum wage. Alright? And then then let's play this out from a small businessman or business person's, point of view. So if you're running a small business and you've got an enormous minimum wage that you can't make, then it's gonna destroy your business, because you can't hire people and the big companies can. You know, the Walmarts, the Costcos, they can they can afford that. They can absorb it because they've got they've got the conglomerate or they got the money to do it. But if you're running a small business, you can't. So you are struggling to find workers, like many of us in the small business area are doing are facing right now. We're all encountering this.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So because I can't compete. Right? So if I'm gonna pay somebody even I can't like, $15 an hour, I can't they're getting 20 at Walmart. And then if you make minimum wage 50, there's no way I can I can't I can't do it without going out of business? So you're basically cram you're basically ramming all the small businesses out of business. Now couple this with illegal immigration. So now what are we gonna do? Businesses are gonna start focusing on hiring people who off the books. Right? So you're creating a black market for labor. And because pay them cash off the books.
Steve Palmer [:They got no credentials or or fake credentials, whatever it is. And, you can pay No
Norm Murdock [:workers' comp.
Steve Palmer [:No workers' comp. No return. No FICA.
Norm Murdock [:No medical. Just just pay them cash.
Steve Palmer [:No taxes. Right? So
Norm Murdock [:No tax.
Steve Palmer [:No taxes. So, like, think of what this is doing economically to the country. Think of the rippling aftershocks of this. And, it's really almost hard. I was talking to our mutual friend the other day. And, he was very disturbed about it because he can't find labor anyway.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, we we got to thinking about, like, where does this lead? It it it it is it is insanity. So we have these insane taxes for those who are doing it right, but then we're letting in millions of people who won't do it right because they don't have to. They're not even on the books to do it right. There's no way even even to do it right with them. There's not they don't have numbers. You know, it's like you can't even how would you put them on payroll? So you end up with this, like, this paradox that the government, on the one hand, says everybody ought to pay their fair share of taxes. On the other hand, these people coming in don't have to. And it's it's an insane it it really is the beginning of the end.
Steve Palmer [:Right? This is the beginning of the end. Or maybe it's maybe it's the end of the beginning, as Churchill once said.
Norm Murdock [:It's Winnie the Pooh.
Steve Palmer [:This is not the end. It's not even the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning. That's what I think
Norm Murdock [:It might be. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:That that that's what he said after, after Didi, I think.
Brett Johnson [:So so all this is based on, a lawsuit? Is that is that how it came to light? Is that what you're
Norm Murdock [:thinking of today? A FOIA. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. It
Norm Murdock [:was one of those, freedom of information Oh. Lawsuits
Brett Johnson [:Okay.
Norm Murdock [:By a, an immigration watchdog company Oh, okay. Organization.
Brett Johnson [:Gotcha. I I mean, I'm always curious how it comes to light. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Yeah. And they fought it in the so the FOIA the judge who oversaw this FOIA, at first, ICE did not wanna disclose the number of airports or which airports. And they they had to go back repeatedly to to hammer on ice to further disgorge the facts. I mean, I mean, it just shows you why Mayorkas has been impeached. He this is a kind of activity he's been up to. You know? And, of course, he's done it under the aegis of and this this very intentional. I mean, Musk has written about this that, essentially, Biden's you know, one of the planks of his reelection is to buy voters.
Norm Murdock [:And this is this is part of what he's doing. If you could take a utility bill and waddle down, you know, and register to vote with a utility bill, you're in. You know? You're you're in. I had a friend that worked the polls in California, and he told me you are not allowed to ask if a person is a citizen. If they show you a utility bill, they're given a ballot.
Steve Palmer [:Well and it's sort of like with Merrick Garland recently saying he doesn't see any reason why we would have identification at voting booths. Like, why don't they even see a reason for it? Like, how, like, how do you say that out loud with a straight face?
Norm Murdock [:Steve, the the people getting on these airplanes, they don't they're not showing ID. They're showing nothing. So a person flying in from Heathrow, right, with 1 with an illegal Englishman, let's say. Right? The Englishman is not showing TSA any identification other than he's got this temporary passport to come into the United States under this program. Right? But the other guy gets searched, gets a rectal exam, whatever, has to take his belt and shoes off, has to show all this ID, has to produce a a picture, a photo ID like like you and I have to. But these 1 third of a 1000000 illegals Sure. You're sitting right next to them on the airplane. They're not showing anything.
Steve Palmer [:And sure. Meanwhile, I got essentially unpacked on the way back from a Mexico trip. Like, all my luggage completely unpacked as I came through it with my family, a suntan and sunglasses on my head. You know, it's like it's obvious what I'm doing. And, somehow, I got flagged, and they had to unpack my entire suitcase. Anybody knows what you have to cram into a suitcase to go on one of those trips, knows what a pain in the ass that is. These people just come right in. Right? It's like like, I'm not trustworthy, but they are.
Norm Murdock [:Well, the the real pros, you know, and this is not saying anything about, you know, I bet this isn't like to boost, anything except their, security efforts. But the Israelis are really good at vetting passengers that are getting on an El Al flight or or whatever their airline's called.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:And they know that a a terrorist never book their wife and their kids. Right? They don't blow up their kids. I mean, they don't get on a plane and blow up their kids. So
Steve Palmer [:The single travelers are the targets, or at least that that's the first
Brett Johnson [:It's the first one, one, isn't it? It makes
Norm Murdock [:perfect sense right now. They would they would would ask you a few questions, you and your wife and your children a few questions, but they would you you don't fit the profile. But what America does is we're so race averse. We we we're like, you can't profile any we we know
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:You have to screw up
Norm Murdock [:basically everybody.
Steve Palmer [:Right. You have to screw up everybody. So it looks like you're not targeting
Norm Murdock [:a certain race. And I So so a 76 year old grandma in a wheelchair, you know, from Minneapolis or something. Like like, she gets the same treatment as, you know, a guy like me that's flying by myself that looks like a, you know
Steve Palmer [:Unless
Norm Murdock [:Well, I am I am Middle Eastern.
Steve Palmer [:And unless you go get the, the the pre flight or what's the TSA pre check. So I go I go pay a $120 or whatever it is, and I can avoid that. You know, it's like like the insanity of this.
Brett Johnson [:Right. If you have enough money, you can you can just keep going through it.
Steve Palmer [:So they they create a a practice and a policy that that makes it such a pain in the ass for for the business folks who have to travel regularly, that then they get to go buy and pay yearly or whatever it is, every 2 years, of way around the problem. So they create the problem, collect money so you can get around the problem Mhmm. And so they can fund the problem in the first place.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, it's state.
Brett Johnson [:It's a lot and outsource another company to get kickback. I'm sure.
Steve Palmer [:You know,
Brett Johnson [:because it's a third party it's not government that it's at next is it clear? I think it's clear. It's clear.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. No. It's not clear. It's the other there's clear. That's a private one.
Brett Johnson [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:But then there's the TSA, pre check. That's whatever that is.
Norm Murdock [:At the level of Yeah. Oh my god. So so, Brett, what I mean, is there any doubt as smart as the, what, the 13 or however many it was on 9:11, you know, the terrorist. Is there any doubt in your mind that Mohammed Atta and his gang would have done that? Like, they would have done the pre checks though. Well, sure.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hold and, you know, put a timetable on I just was looking this up.
Brett Johnson [:So it's it's, the the app that you were talking about looks as though is implemented beginning of 23.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Brett Johnson [:So but that's good that's good to know because it does put a timeline in regards to how many, you know, a third of a 1000000 came through again like we talked about per month. But did you read what air I mean, is it is it a commercial airline that they're coming on over?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It's it's so insane. And I wonder if the airlines are making sense.
Norm Murdock [:The hell? The the the guy in the seat next to you did not go through the same security that you had to go through as a citizen. They don't they don't have any history on this guy other than what he's told them. Oh, you know, like filling out, you know, a federal form. No. I'm not a drug addict. No. I'm not a criminal. You know, he just checks the boxes, and he's in.
Norm Murdock [:Damn. I mean, it's
Steve Palmer [:Well, it's sort of like I was just having a conversation. I'm changing the subject a little bit back to guns because, you know, why not? Yeah. I, I had a buddy up in Michigan, and Michigan passed a law with Gretchen Whitner at the helm Whitmer at the helm rather, that anybody who wants to go purchase a firearm now has to go to their local sheriff and get a permit to do it. And I was talking to my buddy. He was looking at buying a firearm, because he he's going on a big game hunt out west, and you basically need a you wanna carry a sidearm in case you get attacked by animals, like wolves and bears and such. Right. And he had to go get a permit at the sheriff's office to do it. And I and we'd started laughing about it.
Steve Palmer [:I was, like, yeah. I wonder how many criminals are going to the sheriff's office to buy a legitimate gun. Right. Like, like, if if you're planning a an armed robbery, do you think that's how you're gonna procure your firearm? I mean, it's so insane. It's so insane. So it's basically serving nothing other than this virtue signaling nonsense that that it looks good and sort of like what we're talking about with the airport. So they they basically unload my suitcase, unload your suitcase, make us go through security, take off our shoes, and I'm with my kids in a stroller or something. It's like Right.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. There's no way we're carrying I mean, it's so stupid, but it looks good and it sounds good, and, quote Yep. We gotta do something.
Norm Murdock [:We gotta do something.
Steve Palmer [:So You
Norm Murdock [:know, I was talking to a a gun a a a dealer, you know, a a store.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:A a a firearm store, employee in Ohio. And there was some kind of, there was something about, bump stocks or something for a while there where you had to get a sheriff to sign off. And in his county, the sheriff told him, do not bother. It's unconstitutional. Not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. You can just assume that they're all approved. You you you go ahead and sell your shit.
Norm Murdock [:I it it's it's all unconstitutional. And there are sheriffs around the country that are doing this.
Steve Palmer [:Well They
Norm Murdock [:are they are they are not cooperating with these crazy laws.
Steve Palmer [:This is the danger, though. You said laws. They're not laws. They're regulations. So the this is the ATF regulatory scheme being interpreted in different ways depending on
Norm Murdock [:I'm talking about state stuff, Steve. I'm sorry.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, no. That's okay. But it's a good segue to this because it matters. There's a new story that's behind this. So if you've got the ATF basically promulgates rules on the administrative level, and those rules are subject to interpretation. And the interpretation of those rules is, by and large, subject to who's in charge at the time, because the executive branch is in charge of the administrative agencies. So they could say that these bump stocks are now we find those violating a rule. It's not like they created a new rule.
Steve Palmer [:They just reinterpret as an existing rule. And if you think this doesn't happen, you're wrong. It does. Or maybe they enforce something more now than they did before. It was like a Sunday law where it never got enforced. So you you have recently and I think this is sort of virtue signaling on the right side of the equation. Matt Geitz is now suggesting a bill that will eliminate the ATF. Did you see this story?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So and, you know, it's the same kind of thing. I don't think that's ever gonna happen. There's never gonna be enough votes to eliminate. I'd love the idea, but I wouldn't stop at the ATF. I would start gutting the administrative state altogether.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, Department of Education, number 1.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, that's right. Yeah. The Department of Education.
Norm Murdock [:Local responsibility. Why is there a federal Department of Education? They don't pay for it. They they should have nothing to do with local school boards.
Steve Palmer [:And along the lines of hunting, I think I think it was last year, Biden and his administration basically sought to defund in public education any, hunting or shooting sports Right. Along the same lines.
Norm Murdock [:High school program.
Steve Palmer [:High school program. That's the problem. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Yep. Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:So and you you would say, what does that mean? Well, you know, there there's our there are clay shooting and skeet shooting programs at various you know, people get involved in that at a very young age.
Norm Murdock [:It's an Olympic sport. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It's Olympic sport. Right. Right. There's a duathlon. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Buy it. Buy it. Or buy it.
Steve Palmer [:Forgive me. Buy it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Duathlon is biking and running. It's an Olympic sport?
Steve Palmer [:Right. Right.
Norm Murdock [:I mean
Steve Palmer [:And then well, no. That's ski shooting and and and play shooting are are sports. I've been to tournaments. Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. So, like, when when England banned all firearm possession, basically, their biathletes, their Olympians had to go train out of the country. I mean
Steve Palmer [:Well, what the what England did, so they have gun clubs now. So you have to have your gun stored and locked in some gun club and blacked
Norm Murdock [:out a lot. Ski? How do you ski? You know what I mean? Like like like Right. You know, when it snows and you wanna grab your skis and your gun and go to Scotland to practice your biathlon
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Shooting, you can't do that on the fly. It's gotta you know, I'm sure it's this big Byzantine bizarre they they might as well go to Switzerland on vacation and do it.
Steve Palmer [:Right. It's it's so and it's just utter insanity. And and again, if somebody can actually correlate for me this this type of regulatory nonsense to a reduction in gun crime, I'm happy to listen, except it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist logically. It doesn't exist in fact. It doesn't exist in any, never never land realm. It just doesn't exist.
Norm Murdock [:Hey, Steve. Can we can we talk about this, Alabama Supreme Court decision involving in vitro in vitro fertilization eggs?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's a that's a fascinating thing in that you know what? Might and it might, involve, obviously, tort law. You know, people, you know, in accidents or, you know, being you you your your, the death of a, of an embryo. Obviously, the abortion arguments. So, basically, my understanding and jump in. But my understanding is Alabama Supreme Court essentially ruled that a fertilized embryo, a human embryo, whether it's frozen or or however it's being handled, equals an unborn child and has the same rights. And and that is an atom bomb, right, on our culture. I I I I mean, the implications of that, if it stands and and if it spreads, are remarkable. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And Go ahead.
Steve Palmer [:I have not read this decision. I saw the headlines only. So I'm sort of I'm gonna just wing it from the cuff.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:The first question I would wanna actually, I'll tell you the things I would wanna know. I would wanna know what the facts are based upon. In other words, what was the testimony and evidence at the trial court level at the local level to establish this? But essentially, I would assume that there was expert testimony to say that a fertilized egg, in vitro fertilized egg, is a potential baby. Right? Is a is a life.
Norm Murdock [:Let let me just dive in with with a one sentence, my understanding. So the lawsuit was brought under the Alabama wrongful death of a minor act.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:And what it what it was was some mishandling and and disposal of fertilized embryos by one of these banks that holds it for couples.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:And I I, you know, I don't know if, like, a machine shut down or what happened, but they were spoiled in some way, and and they were disposed of.
Steve Palmer [:So they bring a wrongful death there. So it comes up in the it that's interesting. So it came up in the course of civil litigation. So I I have, I pay a company, and enter into a contract with a company to store my fertilized embryo. Right? Essentially.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And they screw it up. And they basically kill it, because they don't whatever they needed to do to preserve it and keep it alive, they didn't do it. Right. So now the question is, what is the liability? Is it just a breach of contract? And if it's a breach of contract, what's the damage? But they they decided to pursue the case. The plaintiffs here that is decided to pursue the case as a wrongful death. So wrongful death would be if I kill you would made a mistake while driving negligently, and I kill somebody. That's a wrongful death. I am liable, for wrongful death.
Steve Palmer [:If I enter into an agreement, Norm, to buy car parts from you and you don't deliver, that's a breach of contract. So they chose wrongful death. Now that became the defense that immediately was going to be well, this isn't a life, because so there can't be a wrongful death. And that's a defense I would raise if I'm representing the defense. I would say there's nothing to say. It is a life. So now it goes up on those issues. So it didn't go up in the in the context of abortion or something like that.
Steve Palmer [:It went up in the context of civil litigation for wrongful death. So that easily articulates upward to the Supreme Court of whatever state you're gonna be dealing with, and they have to decide, well, is a fertilized embryo a life for purposes of a wrongful death statute? And here, clearly, the Supreme Court has said yes. And I've always said this. This is why when when, whenever I debate abortion with people, I'm like, well, look, I didn't come at this. I've even been accused of of the opposite. Of coming at my position on abortion by virtue of my my faith in Christianity. And, that's not true. Actually, I came to this conclusion before I came to faith as a Christian, in fact.
Steve Palmer [:And it it just logically and common sense makes sense to me that if you start dialing back the clock scientifically and based on our current technology, the line where we can preserve or where a a child born early will that will survive is gonna keep going back and back and back and back. And when you're creating legal standards, you need to have black and white standards that are applicable. And viability is is a moving target. The goalpost moves on that all the time, maybe depending upon the health of the of the baby in question or the mother in question, let alone the current scientific technology to keep a baby or a pre born or a preemie rather, alive. And I have a very close friend whose babies were born at a very young age, and they were in the I the intensive care unit for a number of weeks. And then, you know, fortunately, they're gonna survive, and they're doing great. But 20 years ago, they'd be dead. So Yes.
Steve Palmer [:Would those be viable fetuses for purposes of deciding whether it's life or not life? So the only way to come at this to bring bring it back home is when the egg is fertilized, You know, because look. It's we're gonna have the technology sooner or later to, preserve an unborn fetus almost from fertilization, I would think. I mean, it just it just makes sense. Yes. That's or at least that's a black and white standard. Is it any less of a life if it's only been fertilized for 2 weeks than 3 or 4 or 5? Or even and so, you know, what what we're at now? How many weeks now can a baby survive if the mother dies? Or what if we keep the mother alive on on machines while the baby grows? You know, there there's lots of ways to think about this.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:So saying that an unborn or a, an embryo that's been fertilized is a life for purposes of a wrongful death statute, I I can understand the logic, because what if you say no to that? Yeah. If the court says no to that, then it's sort of contrary to the common sense. We all know that that is a a life or at least one that could be a life.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and what what was the intention of fertilizing it?
Steve Palmer [:It's the purpose of the contract to begin with. Right?
Brett Johnson [:Right. Right. In this scenario.
Steve Palmer [:In this scenario. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:The intention was to bring it to life.
Steve Palmer [:Bring it to life.
Brett Johnson [:You're not just putting it in a freezer to freeze it.
Steve Palmer [:But the but the the pro abortion fanatics or I don't wanna use the word fanatic. Those in favor of abortion, don't like this decision because it reflects upon the analysis I just gave.
Brett Johnson [:Right. The when does life start?
Steve Palmer [:When does life start?
Brett Johnson [:Yes. And it does counter that that decision
Norm Murdock [:will happen.
Steve Palmer [:I would suggest to them. Yeah. Any one of them. If that were your egg, that you paid somebody, your fertilized embryo that you paid somebody to store and keep viable, then you would think it's a life. Right. Right? You would. It's like
Brett Johnson [:Well, then they would come back and say, well, now now you're just talking about exchange of money. There's no life to this. Right. You're just talking about money. Just sell. You know?
Norm Murdock [:Right. Right. It's a deal.
Brett Johnson [:And and I I get where they're coming from that. You're right. It is a deal, isn't it?
Steve Palmer [:It was a contract.
Brett Johnson [:It's a contract. It was
Steve Palmer [:a contract.
Brett Johnson [:And they made the choice before the lawsuit came to a head. Okay. Do we pursue it as exchange of money or life?
Steve Palmer [:They probably did both.
Norm Murdock [:There's a
Brett Johnson [:You know, we probably did both.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. But implicit in this
Norm Murdock [:Cup there there's a couple of interesting spin offs of this. One is this this decision sort of buttresses these international experimentation on human embryos. Right? That's why there was an outrage when the Chinese or North Koreans, whoever did it, first, you know, created a human embryo because that went against these international treaties. Well, why do we have international treaties against experimenting with human embryos if they're not life?
Steve Palmer [:If they're not life. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Right. I mean, that's that's the impetus be behind that. And then the other interesting thing is immediately after this decision, I think within one day, Trump came out against this decision. He said he said what it will do is it'll put a damper on couples that cannot get pregnant because, hospitals and clinics don't wanna take on this burden.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's right. Because So there
Norm Murdock [:Maybe they maybe they could be charged with manslaughter.
Steve Palmer [:That's right. There is a there is an there is a bad side of this coin. You know, this like, there's all sorts of reasons why this isn't good precedent either because, one, you're going to chill the existence of clinics such as this one, that exist to help people, procreate. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:You're gonna chill it. The other is I I was already going down this path, and you brought it up, Norm. It's like, is it manslaughter? Is it negligent homicide if if you screw up and your power goes out and you don't have backup systems? Like, where does that line get drawn now? How many and how many counts are you gonna be dealing with if all these things are considered life for purposes of, of, manslaughter, murder, negligent homicide, whatever whatever the particular state would call it. So there there's a lot of aftershocks to this one that, that are gonna show up. And you know what? You could say that it's a bad decision for those reasons, and maybe it is. But this is this is the beauty. This is why I love studying the history of the common law. This is why our Western system of justice is so fascinating to me, because we get to evolve.
Steve Palmer [:Decisions get to reflect society, and it happens slowly. And I always say that the the the laws reflect society, and the society reflects the laws. And it's not always clear what's first. So if you go back and study the common law, it wasn't written in in medieval times. Go back to, like until you got to, like, Magna Carta and John and then Henry the first and Henry the second. You know, we did it wasn't really that we had law Even then, you you didn't have laws written down. It wasn't like you could pull out a statute book and read the laws. It was a common law.
Steve Palmer [:It was a law that was common to the land, And it Yeah. It evolved and developed as courts manner courts in many situations, heard facts, made decisions, and then and then then rendered the decision in a particular case. And then that particular case created a foothold for the next person who was maybe the same, but probably a little bit different. And we could say, well, we can apply this decision in this sit in this next situation because it's close, but we have to take it a little bit further because it it it it's a little bit different fact pattern. And then the law evolves. The common law evolved over 100 of years. Now in our system, in our country, I think it's if you look back, I'm guessing here, guys, so don't hold me to this. But back in the fifties or so, I think the states probably started to write down, the code, you know.
Steve Palmer [:So we have we have codified. We have created legislation and written down the laws so we don't have to rely on on legal precedent necessarily. We can look up the law books and say, you know, now we have, like, a uniform commercial code for contracts. Things like that started to happen. I think I think West Virginia was one of the last people that that are last states that didn't have, written laws. And I am so anybody who's gonna look at this, and they're gonna not listen to the whole thing, and they're gonna clip it out and say, you don't know what you're talking about because you're wrong. I'm telling you. I'm guessing.
Steve Palmer [:But I think this I'm like, I'm shooting from distant memory over the years of my last 28 years of practicing law. But, you know, the idea the bigger picture is what's important here. The law evolves as as things change in our society, and the law has to be created. If you're gonna write down law, if you're gonna create written statutes, you have to be able to delineate, definitions and facts that don't change. Otherwise, you have no law. You know, you you you have to have something you can rely upon. So you have to create a definition for what a fertilized embryo is. And, you know, a lot of times, people don't like this, but the law will create definitions in one situation and then sort of modify it a little bit for a second.
Steve Palmer [:And you can see some incongruity with that. So for instance, the the murder statute in Ohio is prohibits killing not only the woman, but her unborn child. It's a separate kind of murder. And now the question is, how does that how does that, line up with abortion? Right?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. With our our recently, our recently, passed amendment to the Ohio Constitution.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So you you Which
Norm Murdock [:is almost unlimited abortion.
Steve Palmer [:There I think there are some states who have eliminated the unborn child definition of murder in the murder section of their stat because they gotta create congruent congruent re outcomes. So Yeah. Look, this is this is gonna have to play out in the in the this is a long winded way of getting to this point is that, alright. So now that in the Supreme Court of Alabama, a fertilized egg is life is a is a person for purposes of wrongful death. The next decision is gonna be how does that fit in with a criminal prosecution for manslaughter? And then the next, you know, and you can deal with that very easily. You just don't have to write a law that says it's manslaughter. You can say you the the legislative branch would get to say, accept this, you know.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:And that happens all the time in the criminal court.
Norm Murdock [:All the time. They carve out exceptions.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. Yeah. So there's ways it can happen and ways it doesn't have to happen, but it I guess my point is, it's the court's job to sort such things out.
Norm Murdock [:You know, more more legal things that I'm I'm fascinated by this, presidential oh, was that Dexter?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Dexter. This is Dexter. He's our mascot today.
Norm Murdock [:All I had to do was say supreme court, and he he barked. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. Yeah. Justice Roberts. Okay. No. No bark there.
Norm Murdock [:But, no. The supreme court took a a Trump motion to stay a lower court's decision on presidential immunity, and at least 4 of the justices, transmogrified the request to stay into a cert. So they self Trump didn't ask for a cert. Jack Smith didn't ask for a cert, but the Supreme Court self asserted this motion to stay into a single request for briefs on the question of whether or not a president who's no longer in office can be held criminally accountable for acts he took while in office.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And, and and that's now, that's now, you know, gonna be, I guess, the linchpin on whether or not both the, January 6th, you know, the the impeding an election, those charges that that that Smith is claiming, as well as probably the, documents, the set the the Espionage Act, question down in Florida. This will probably touch on both of them.
Steve Palmer [:And, it probably will. And I know I I heard some comment some of the the far sort of the left wing commentators criticizing, wow, the court, they're delaying this on you know, they they they like, there's 2 ways you can look at this. You can say, oh, the court's delaying this, and they don't want Trump trials to go forward before the election and yada yada yada yada. Yeah. And I can talk about that in a second. Or you can look at it this way. The Supreme Court is saying, look, this is coming to a head. We need to grab this by the horns and deal with it.
Steve Palmer [:Let's just do it sooner rather than later. I'm in the 2nd camp. I I I don't have any problem with the Supreme Court grabbing this issue. It is clearly a United States constitutional issue of the ilk that the United States Supreme Court is going to have to decide sooner or later. And we can debate about how they decide it, but anybody who would say that this is not a US Supreme Court issue that needs a decision, well, they're nuts. And and and why go through all this nonsense until this is decided? So I I don't have a problem with this, as a practical matter. It's gonna delay the prosecution of Trump in some way, shape, or form, but it on the other hand, you can look at it like they're trying to expedite it. They're trying to say, look, Let's at least get this part out of the way so you can move forward unfettered at least on this legal issue about whether there's even a crime from the from the outset.
Norm Murdock [:It's it's a radical it's a radical theory that Jack Smith is pushing here. Let me give an example. I remember when president Obama sent a drone strike that killed a US citizen in a foreign country. I don't know if you guys remember that.
Steve Palmer [:I do. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It was in Jordan or Syria or Iraq or someplace. Okay? And a US citizen happened to be at this, party. I think it was a wedding reception, and it was a mission that went wrong. I mean, I think I think the defense department acknowledged that they made a mistake. It was misidentification. They they hit the wrong house or something like that. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Anyway, so could this US citizen's attorney then go to either a, a district attorney or or civilly bring an action against president Obama for an act he took while in office. Right? And he's no longer president. Could could Obama possibly go to prison for killing a US citizen?
Steve Palmer [:Well, look. Right? Look. I I think there's you've
Norm Murdock [:I mean
Steve Palmer [:you've added some variables here that are probably worthy of discussion. So the first question is, what let's assume that you can do that. Let's assume that you can prosecute a president for crimes committed while they were in office. Yeah. Make that assumption. Then you have to define what crimes, you know, because there's a difference between what I'll call mistakes or negligence versus intentional acts. So I think anybody looking at this would say if a president committed murder while in office or committed an intentional theft while in office, sort of like Nixon did, or, or like an act like Nixon did, something that's a little more than just making a mistake. Well, that's treated differently.
Steve Palmer [:It's treated differently in the legal system, frankly, than Well, except
Norm Murdock [:for cops that do no knock search warrants and and shoot the wrong person or go to the wrong apartment. They go to jail.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. No. No. They can be prosecuted for that, but there is a crime of negligent homicide, and they're not they're not presidents at the time they did it. So you're you're talking about whether Biden or whether Obama could be prosecuted for a mistake made under his regime targeting the wrong target. I would wanna know in that prosecution and isolation, leaving out all the Trump stuff, did he do it on purpose? Was did he did he know? What did he know, and what didn't he know? Did he legitimately, in good faith, think that this was a legitimate target? Well, that's different than if he thought, well, look.
Steve Palmer [:This is a it could be a legitimate target. It could be a US citizen. Ah, screw it. Let's just take them out anyway. We'll be safe and take them out.
Norm Murdock [:That's different. Steve, yeah, we can parse all that stuff out at a trial, but the
Steve Palmer [:You have to parse it out.
Norm Murdock [:Why should a president why should any president, Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton or George Bush, why should any of these people be dragged into court? I mean, they will no longer act It would be They will no longer act as president Take in our best interest.
Steve Palmer [:Take the opposite. Take the opposite. Sorry. I cut you off because I
Norm Murdock [:Go ahead. I do that something.
Steve Palmer [:Go ahead. Take the take the opposite, public policy incentive. Otherwise, you're creating an incentive where a president can commit crimes with impunity and not be prosecuted for it. So look, somewhere in the middle, the the right path lies. So and I would draw it at intentional crime. So look, in law, and you probably had this we've probably gone through this before, but in our Western system of justice, a crime generally takes 2 things. It generally takes the act, something called an actus reus from Latin. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:I got you. Mens rea in in Latin. The act is the act or a failure to act when you have a duty to. The mens rea is the intent is the criminal intent to actually do the act. So and, you know, somewhere, this has to be measured by the mens rea of the crime. Otherwise, you're in like, you could commit murder, or you could commit a serious theft offense, or you could do whatever you want. And as president, you say, diplomatic community. Remember the old lethal weapon?
Norm Murdock [:Okay. So this Venezuelan that that came in because Joe Biden is disobeying standing law.
Steve Palmer [:Intentionally, by the way.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. So so hear me out. So so are we saying that Joe Biden should stand for trial when he gets out of office for, Lock and Riley's, you know, for aiding and assisting and abetting this Venezuelan who killed Locke and Riley? I mean, they could be
Brett Johnson [:He may very well.
Steve Palmer [:The better question is
Norm Murdock [:But that's not right.
Steve Palmer [:Norms, Norman.
Norm Murdock [:That's not right.
Steve Palmer [:The better question is not that. Because look That's
Norm Murdock [:not right.
Steve Palmer [:In law, we also have something called proximate cause where the criminal intent has to link up something logically and rationally I got you. So there's intervening acts in what you're talking about. The better question is could Biden be prosecuted after he leaves office for violating the United States code and the United States law on immigration? That's the better question. Not murder
Norm Murdock [:Well, yes.
Steve Palmer [:But for violating the law.
Norm Murdock [:Which which leads to all of these crimes, like the school bus accident
Steve Palmer [:I got it. I got it.
Norm Murdock [:In Springfield, Ohio.
Steve Palmer [:So prosecuting Biden for murder for the school bus accident in Springfield, Ohio, the men's race is stretched too far, I think. But I think the better question is could you prosecute Biden for violating the immigration laws if there is a criminal code that says you can't do it? And let
Norm Murdock [:me say this as a hardcore conservative. I would not want mister Biden to be criminally charged after he leaves office. That I think that's
Steve Palmer [:the case. If he committed crimes that could be prosecuted. So what if he committed what if he embezzled $1,000,000 from the United States coffers?
Norm Murdock [:I I I I would not. And and let me tell you why. This is why Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon because they were gonna do that to Richard Nixon. It drags it drags the dignity of the office through the mud, and it will become a political weapon used to
Steve Palmer [:Yes. It will.
Norm Murdock [:It it will be used to chill. Excuse me. It'll be used to chill actions that presidents need to take, which which technically could be illegal, right, for any other citizen.
Steve Palmer [:Forget about technically are illegal.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. So you mentioned lend lease, for example. There there may be, for example, some sort of law that that Biden had to go through some kind of procedure before he could assert a lend lease. So, basically, he's stealing from the treasury to just give money to the Ukraine. I just as an example, it will chill presidential action that needs to happen, like a drone strike. Okay? What if Obama says, yeah. There is a US citizen. He is wanted by the CIA.
Norm Murdock [:He's a double agent. He's a bad guy. He's at the party. I'm gonna kill him.
Steve Palmer [:You're assuming it has to be all or nothing. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I think that there is a path you can carve through this that does not give immunity to presidents who commit criminal acts like theft.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:So theft in office, for instance, is a crime. If our governor steals a bunch of money, he can be prosecuted for theft in office. Would you give the president immunity for that?
Norm Murdock [:No. The solution is impeachment.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, impeachment, but impeachment doesn't result in a restitution figure to the victims. So how about murder? What if the president kills his wife while in office?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I'm talking about official acts.
Steve Palmer [:I'm not talking about So maybe you draw the line at official acts.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:Alright. Because that's already on the books, isn't it? Nina, the president cannot commit murder. That's right.
Steve Palmer [:I think that's true. I'm using
Norm Murdock [:that as an extreme example.
Brett Johnson [:But but your point taken your point taken official acts versus personal acts.
Steve Palmer [:Right. You have to draw the line somewhere. The the the president should not have immunity for intentional crime committed in office. Alright.
Norm Murdock [:Well, intentional crimes that are outside of his office.
Steve Palmer [:Well, there's immunity right now. So the police officers have certain immunity, civil or civil immunity when they engage in actions within the wearing the hat of their duty. Right. But that's civil. Criminally, not so much. We rely so maybe this is this is it. When you get down to brass tacks, when you get down to the minutiae, our legal system cannot address every single problem that we can, that we can, contemplate. We do our best.
Steve Palmer [:It's not perfect. Now there are there's playing the joints in places that naturally have emerged to address this problem. One of the largest is prosecutorial discretion. So we have sort of this idea of prosecutorial discretion where prosecutors, particularly federal prosecutors, my dad used to say, have, as much power as, as as Christ himself. You know, you they have, you know, they have lots and lots and lots and lots of power to really turn the screws on people. And we we presume a little bit of discretion is going to be exercised. And maybe you could dial that back to the appointment process, for the federal positions, with the vetting that has to happen, things of that nature. But here's what's happened.
Steve Palmer [:We've become so polarized in our country, politically speaking, that we're starting to use justice. We're starting to use the justice system as Wrong. As a cudgel against the other side. And we are not exercising prosecutorial discretion. Just because we can push the nuclear button doesn't mean we should. And and here, just because Trump could be or may be prosecuted for crimes like we're talking about, doesn't mean that it should happen. Because what it does is it creates a seesaw that has no end. We're gonna be at a spot next where I think I think the people on the left are so concerned about Trump becoming president, not necessarily because of his policies.
Steve Palmer [:As you noted, Norm, he's sort of moderate on things like abortion. But they're they're they're worried now about his backlash, about what's what's gonna be the retribution that he's gonna try to take using the same system that they have taken against them. You know, it's Well,
Norm Murdock [:I think it's pretty I think it's pretty clear. So when he campaigned against Hillary, he said if it was up to me, I'd put you in prison. He said that during one of the debates. Did. Now when he was president when he was president, did he go after Hillary?
Steve Palmer [:He did not.
Norm Murdock [:He did not.
Steve Palmer [:But what's he gonna do now that they have they have weaponized the system against him? If you're in his shoes, that's what you're saying, that you have weaponized the system against me. Alright. So now we, you know, we have we have made this a weapon that anybody can grab. This is what we're gonna do. It's sort of like Mitch McConnell using the when this when the Dems eliminated the filibuster or changed the rules, he said, watch out. We're gonna use it against you someday. And then he did.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And, they regretted it. So look, this is the problem. We have eliminated discretion in the system by virtue of a polarized political system where nobody can agree on anything. And
Norm Murdock [:What Jack Smith in this in this in this case is alleging is that Trump by now he was president. Right? On you know, he was president after the election up until January 20th. Mhmm. And what Jack Smith is saying is that the president's concern that the election was corrupted by violations of, voting, laws around the country.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:And he brought his attorneys together to figure out ways to challenge. And he got Mike Pence on the phone and said, Mike, I want you to, you know, I want you to assert that this is not a it it was not a legitimate election. Side, he is saying that that was interference with the election. And on the other side is Trump took an oath of office to uphold the constitution of the United States. And as president, part of that is to make sure elections are fair and legal. Right.
Steve Palmer [:So what you've done is you you have outlined the positions of both parties. But look, there's a path through this that permits prosecution. It could be that in order to prosecute
Norm Murdock [:what the well, Steve, that is the issue. Right?
Steve Palmer [:All on part. That is What the Supreme Court is going so look, if you're gonna prosecute Trump, you have to say that Trump knew and intentionally was not acting within the duty that you just described to uphold. You would have to say that Trump knew, or maybe even depending upon the mens rea elements, knew or should have known that this election was legit, and therefore, everything he did while under the under the his own, express hat of saying, I'm just trying to make sure the election is fair. He knew it wasn't fair, and he's only saying he was trying to make it fair while he was trying to commit, basically a coup d'etat. So look So
Norm Murdock [:now you're now you're getting in his head, and this is what is so dangerous.
Steve Palmer [:This is criminal prosecution, Norm. This is what we do in every criminal case.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. But but but, Steve, we only have 1 president at a time. And to bind the hands of the president and to try to get into his head about whether it's an official act or a personal act
Steve Palmer [:Well, it depends on it depends on what the proof is. What if what if you have proof? And look, we'll we'll play law school here. What if you have proof that Trump told his closest adviser, look, I know this election wasn't stolen, but this is I can just say it was it was stolen, and then I'm gonna go try to take over power.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Does that change your analysis?
Norm Murdock [:Well, well, think of all the incentives for a little shrimp working for him to to, perjure himself
Steve Palmer [:to make money. Tape. Take that out of the equation. Yeah. Now it's on tape. Can you prosecute him then?
Norm Murdock [:Things like Nixon said on tape, and Gerald Ford pardoned him.
Steve Palmer [:Correct. So the prosecutor Why
Norm Murdock [:did he do that? He did that to save the country going through
Steve Palmer [:Agree.
Norm Murdock [:A nightmare.
Steve Palmer [:Agree.
Norm Murdock [:And and we are going Steve, we're going through a nightmare right now because of Jack Smith.
Steve Palmer [:I agree. I agree. I'm not I'm not arguing with you on that. I think the Supreme Court is gonna come down along the lines of something like, intentional crimes not exercised in the course and scope of your duty as president, which is going to put the onus on Jack Smith to prove just or the negative of just that. And and I'm not sure he can. I'm not sure the proof exists, but I think that's gotta be where the lawn is drawn now or the line is drawn. Now we have to get back to to political and prosecutorial discretion because literally any side could do this. This is nuclear warfare.
Steve Palmer [:Any side can do this. Be careful what you do because somebody's gonna pick up that sword sooner or later and turn on you and use it. And this is the danger of it.
Norm Murdock [:I I will go on record right now. If there is a memo that Joe Biden wrote that says, hey, Mayorkas. I want you to disregard federal law and let in illegals willy nilly.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:Right? I do not want Joe Biden being prosecuted or going to prison for that.
Steve Palmer [:Well, I'm not sure that's a crime.
Norm Murdock [:Well, okay. So so so okay.
Steve Palmer [:Now look, it might be impeachable. But you understand what I'm saying, Norm? I'm not sure there's a crime that says no no person shall ignore immigration law. And if you do, it is a criminal offense defined this way with this particular punishment.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. Let's suppose for
Steve Palmer [:What's a semithere
Norm Murdock [:is? School stuff. Yeah. Law school stuff. Let's suppose there is a crime that says no federal official can facilitate an illegal immigrant coming into the United States.
Steve Palmer [:And there may may may or may not be a crime on that. And the federal official includes president.
Norm Murdock [:Now to show you the collusion between these prosecutors and the Biden White House, it has just come out that Fannie Willis, right, who's already compromised with, incentives to to self serve via her boyfriend various, emoluments, let's say, of of him being paid $600,000 to to pros a a divorce lawyer to prosecute, Trump, in in, in Fulton County, Georgia. It has now come out that she has met with Kamala Harris before she indicted Trump.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Okay? This is dirty stuff.
Norm Murdock [:So, Steve, this is why this is part of why the shenanigans and, like Biden would say, the malarkey. The the the this is exactly why you should not prosecute presidents after they leave office. That's what I'm saying because it will be used. These dirty tricks will be used, and he needs immunity. Biden needs it. Obama needs it. Bush needs it.
Steve Palmer [:But you're not you you shouldn't get immunity for everything. So somewhere, we gotta draw
Norm Murdock [:a line. We just we just discussed murder. I I agree with it.
Steve Palmer [:Well, in other I think there are other acts for which you should not have immunity. So this is what the Supreme Court is gonna figure out, and then it's gonna be left to the courts below to decide which of these prosecutions falls within that and which of whatever the new standard is, factually speaking, in order to engage in the prosecution. That's the best our court's gonna be able to do.
Norm Murdock [:Look at all the bullshit we went through on these, taking Trump off the ballots. And then the Supreme Court comes back 9 o like I said they would. Okay?
Steve Palmer [:Feel good.
Norm Murdock [:Came back even even Ketanji Brown Jackson came back and said, yeah. She wrote a little separate opinion, and I get I get all that.
Steve Palmer [:But we should talk about what the separate opinion was about. But anyway yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. But even she and and Kagan said, no. States can't control who is running for president.
Steve Palmer [:Correct.
Norm Murdock [:Get get the f out of here. Right?
Steve Palmer [:And the only the only disagreement was was on was on whether the majority went too far to say, here's what congress has to decide this and how they're gonna decide it in in going forward. But, yeah, they all agreed on the outcome.
Norm Murdock [:They all agreed on the outcome. Right? Because it's it's undemocratic, you know, small d. It's undemocratic to do this. Yes. The one time the one time when we don't get to act as a republic is when the individual voter goes in and and fills out their ballot. And they were gonna take that away from people.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I wanted to add something, before we you know, that we're close to end, but, here back in Ohio, I don't know if you heard this, it's a state representative Mark Johnson from, Republican from Chillicothe has introduced house bill 429. And this is a good thing, I think. The the least the scope of it would increase the penalties for reckless driving in a construction zone including 1,000 in additional fines and license suspension.
Brett Johnson [:Now, here are the numbers. There have been nearly a 100 deaths in the past 5 years from construction zone crashes according to state highway patrol. There have been 34 crew hits the first 2 months of this year. 34 hits compared to 56 total in last year.
Norm Murdock [:Wow.
Brett Johnson [:So I I you know, when when when the the the ladies and gentlemen do some good things down there, I do wanna give them applause. I think now this is probably gonna be an overreaching house bill to a certain degree. It always is. But I'm kinda surprised the the fine start at $400.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look.
Brett Johnson [:Where where do we pull this stupid number? Let me It's so damn low. Let me If if it's so important, why is it $400?
Steve Palmer [:Here here here's here's what we have to do. Here's what we let's kick this. This is a fascinating topic to me because we have created a law that enhances fines and punishments for speeding in a construction zone. Right. In order to address situations where somebody gets hit in a or a worker gets hit in a construction zone. Yeah. Alright. Those are 2 different things.
Steve Palmer [:So you have to correlate speeding to somebody getting hit.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Gotcha.
Steve Palmer [:And and that may not always be the case. Sure.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, yeah. You could be going the speed limit, but hit somebody accidentally. Yes.
Steve Palmer [:For sure. Or you could be on your phone. Yes. Or you could be distracted. You could be changing your radio dial. You could be doing whatever.
Norm Murdock [:For sure.
Steve Palmer [:So it now so the look. It is true, statistically speaking, that lots of accents are correlated to speed. Mhmm. But lots of them aren't. Right. So there's lots of of normal 55 mile or 65 mile or 70 mile an hour accidents that occur not because of speeding. Yeah. And then you have to next ask, will the enhanced fine actually prevent people from speeding in a construction zone? I I don't know that that's enough.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I don't know that's enough to do it. I don't know. So look, everybody goes through the sign. I've done it. You go through the construction zone, finds enhanced if because of construction zone, or fines tripled or doubled. I always slow down in construction zones. I guess, for both reasons. 1, I wanna try to be safe, and 2, I don't want a big ticket.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Right? But lots of people blow by me. Mhmm. Semis, everybody blows by me for whatever reason. And, you know, I I so I don't have a problem with the bill as such. But again, it's it's it's like it I think it, to some extent, falls into we gotta do something category, because it sounds good. But is it really going to change the scenario where somebody gets hit? Now there already are laws on the books to protect against that. So if I hit somebody while driving negligently, I can be accused of negligent homicide.
Steve Palmer [:So there's a traffic offense that says, I'm guilty of some degree, some version of homicide. If I commit make a law a wrongful I blow a stop sign and kill somebody, I can be accused of, of a homicide charge. So the people who do that are already accused, and it's not stopping them from doing it. So you wonder, like, what could what could happen? This is where I always say there's a sliding scale here. We could have no crime. All we have to do is increase enforcement to a level that we would all be uncomfortable with. Right? Right. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Everybody you create checkpoints going into speeding or going into construction zones, and you tell everybody, or you put a regulator on their car and say, now you're not gonna be able to go fast. I mean, you can there there are things you can conceive, but we don't wanna do that, because we have to we have to balance the the criminal side or the criminal laws against our freedom and vice versa. So the more free you are, the more risk we take in our society. I'm not disagreeing with the law in theory, but to some extent, it's a political law because it's already prohibited to do that, and people aren't following it. So his theory is maybe we can get people to slow down if we enhance the fines more, and that might be true.
Brett Johnson [:Might be.
Steve Palmer [:But it's not necessarily gonna protect human life. It could, and it's a good step. But and I'm not I'm not I'm not arguing with you that it's a good law. No.
Brett Johnson [:No. I I I don't know either.
Steve Palmer [:I find it interesting, though, when you when you really break this down logically, what is the correlation to the outcome they're quoting with the law that they're proposing? And and really how is it gonna play out? And time will tell if we have I would like to know in 10 years if this goes into effect. Do we have fewer accidents on in construction zones, and you wanna know, do we have fewer construction zones?
Brett Johnson [:And I want and take into effect that this came to mind as well too that our construction season is now 12 months a year.
Steve Palmer [:That's right. So of course So
Brett Johnson [:those numbers are probably gonna be up.
Steve Palmer [:They're gonna be up. Probably. And then you have to ask, what were the construction workers doing? And nobody's going to like this question, but what were the construction workers doing when they got hit by a car? You know, were they were they because I've seen
Brett Johnson [:There's a percentage that they accidentally went over the line, got hit. Yep. There has to be. We're human error. I have seen workers.
Steve Palmer [:And I'm like, what in the heck are you doing in the road right now? Like, look. You don't have to you're walking to car or something like something's going on and they're on their phone. Like, so there's a lot of variables. But, look, in theory, fine. Make it make it a bigger crimp. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And and this is also gonna cover from what I'm seeing at the very end of the article, you going around, Columbia Gas People. Mhmm. Construction there. They're considering that construction
Steve Palmer [:as well. Private.
Brett Johnson [:So AEP comes out or the gas company comes out and they put the truck in the cones out. You hit that guy coming out of the truck. This is gonna be part of it. Sure. So And
Steve Palmer [:there's a law sense. That went into effect a few years ago that says you have to get into the left lane when you see an emergency vehicle on the right lane. And, you know, that that that sounds great. But I I don't know this. I'm I'm speculating. I wonder what the actual outcome of this because I've tried to do that before in that situation, and it gets pretty dangerous in and of itself to try to do that. You know, there's a there's a backlog of traffic. You end up causing an accident.
Steve Palmer [:So there's always a quick there's always another side of it. There's always a ripple effect. There's always an unintended consequence. So look. I mean, on the other hand, let's take school zones. Everybody knows you have to slow down in a school zone because the enforcement and the targeting has been enhanced. Mhmm. So maybe what we need to do, instead of making a new law, enforce the one that's already in existence.
Steve Palmer [:Just be amazed, Tom,
Brett Johnson [:that yeah. You hit the brake pedal when you see it with the lights on top of a car.
Steve Palmer [:So deploy police to construction zones and pull people over who are freaking speeding.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Do it. I bet you you stop it.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:That that probably would have more impact on what this guy's trying to do than actually rewriting a new law that nobody's gonna know about.
Brett Johnson [:Right. And and and I guess the whole gist of it and I think you'd agree with norm too because you're on the road a lot too. It's just don't speed through construction zones. Right. Slow it down. These guys and women men and women have a home to go to that night. Slow down.
Steve Palmer [:I would also
Norm Murdock [:Slow down. I would also, encourage ODOT, you know, because they use private contractors like Coco Singh. Mhmm. You know, does highway construction. So they're not state employees in most cases. They're they're, private, you know, just like Columbia Gas. I would I would urge ODOT, and maybe ODOT is increasingly doing this. I hope so.
Norm Murdock [:But you can't condition people to think every time they see an orange barrel that it's a construction zone that is live. So I would encourage ODOT so that you don't get people going through a construction zone and getting conditioned to the fact that, oh, there's nothing going on here. Why did they slow me down? They need to have some signage that says construction zone laws. This is an active hot zone right now. There are people working. And then when there's nobody working and both lanes are wide open, but there's still barrels, take the turn the signs off.
Steve Palmer [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:And and no longer a construction. What
Steve Palmer [:we're talking about Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You you teach people to ignore
Steve Palmer [:identifies an obvious logical fallacy. Very rarely is there a single cause to an outcome.
Brett Johnson [:Very rarely.
Steve Palmer [:There's almost all there always are it's a multifaceted analysis of many, many things. And a lot of times, the the danger of these laws is they only identify the one that happens to be politically interesting at the time or politically, give them a little bit of leverage at the time. Yeah. And then they pass along.
Norm Murdock [:Steve, take your example. Your example of school zones is perfect. Those zones are not active when the lights aren't flashing.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. No. It's a great point. Good point. That's true.
Norm Murdock [:That's true. That's all I'm saying about construction zones
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Is I think you will you will gain the trust of motorists if you indicate when it's live and it and it's in effect versus when it's not in effect.
Steve Palmer [:So we we know when norm speeds through construction.
Norm Murdock [:Wow, man. The hey, man. The one going through Benton, Arkansas, home of Walmart, was, like, 10 miles long, and it was bumper to bumper. It was terrible.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's brutal. Look. But it's a reality of life, and that's just telling you.
Norm Murdock [:Reality. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Yep. But I think part of the problem here, I think, is enforcement. So we're not enforcing the laws that are on the books, and then we're gonna write new laws that still won't be enforced. I'll give you an example, and then then we can wrap this up. But I had a, there was a semi truck trailer parked behind my building yesterday. And, you know, this guy had to go to court or whatever it was. And I you know, we he left a left a phone number on his window.
Steve Palmer [:So I called him, said, look man, you gotta move your truck. You're taking up 5 spots back here. My employees, my building tenants can't park. He comes back and moves. While he's backing out now it was without a trailer, Norm. So it was just a a the semi tractor. Wow. Slams into the utility pole out
Norm Murdock [:there. Oh, wow.
Steve Palmer [:Backing out as fast as he could, and and nails it. So down come the wires. Oh. Crossing my lot, crossing Blenkner. So now traffic is stopped on Blenkner. People can't get in and out of my parking lot. He jumps the curb, goes the wrong way on Blenkner, and then heads up High Street. K.
Steve Palmer [:Jesus.
Brett Johnson [:Alright. A hit and run, basically?
Steve Palmer [:It was a hit skip. So I called the guy and said, look Oh my god. Just come back, man. Just come back. No. He didn't respond. So, I we called the police, the fire department. The they bring the and, you know, kudos to the city because I thought this is gonna be an all day problem.
Steve Palmer [:They had it fixed within 2 hours. They had the wires back up and blinker back open. But all the local businesses around here, we were all cobbled because we couldn't get our employees into our lots.
Norm Murdock [:You know? Hey, Steve. It's probably probably because the city paid somebody who had one of the you know, one of those wires came down on the, Broad Street Bridge, and it electrocuted a kid. Right? Yep. And the city city had to pay.
Steve Palmer [:These aren't power wires. It was private.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, okay.
Steve Palmer [:So it was data line data line. So those people don't want you know, they came out on the spot. Here's the point of the story. I called Columbus police, and I had the gentleman's phone number. I had his name. I had his license plate number. And I gave it all to the police department. He just said, yeah, we're not gonna do anything about it.
Brett Johnson [:Like I know.
Steve Palmer [:And he and he looks at me as you're not a victim. You know, it's not like, you know, you're not it's no big deal, but you're just not a victim. I'm like, well, who's paying for all
Brett Johnson [:this? And And and the guy drives away thinking, hell, I can hit a poll anytime now.
Steve Palmer [:So here's what's even better.
Norm Murdock [:Taught him that?
Steve Palmer [:Let's I'm I'm an hour late for court as a result, and I got judges calling me and I got, clients calling me. And I run over to court, and on my way, I see the same truck parked in the Here, I'll hop in the back. I'll take you right over there. And he just looks at me, he goes, you can text me the pictures you just took, but we're probably not gonna do anything. And that's it. So look, where you know, I I don't wanna ruin this. He's obviously a commercial driver, obviously a court. He clearly lived in a semi truck, so I have some empathy there for that.
Steve Palmer [:And I don't wanna ruin lives. But what favor have we done for anybody here, Really? You know, there's no consequence for anything this guy did. So now At
Brett Johnson [:least the cops go up to him and and scare the shit out of him for about 5, 10 minutes. Something. Just rewrite him the act and then walk away. So
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. There there's no consequence for this. So how is this guy driving day in and day out then? You know? Yeah. And and look, I I again, I don't wanna ruin lives, but, you know, it's like the butterfly effect. You know? So I made a decision not to tell him. I called him. I told him to move his car in not so many polite words, and he does. And then he rams into my telephone pole and causes all that damage and delays traffic for 2 hours.
Steve Palmer [:Had I have just had him towed, none of that would have happened, and he would have had a consequence for it. And it's not for I'm not God. I don't believe me, I I don't relish in delivering cons but it's an interesting philosophical consideration. It's like
Norm Murdock [:Well, think of all think of all the property crime victims in the last 3, 4 years that the the police, the prosecutors won't do anything about it.
Steve Palmer [:Doing. And the police don't and I'm not blaming the Columbus cops as much as I'm blaming the whole city in how it's being run. Right. Because there is a time a year or 2 or 3, 4 years ago that they would have been on top of that guy doing something about it. And I know that because I represent people charged with such acts.
Norm Murdock [:Even the state patrol the state patrol has one guy, if you can believe this. This is true. At least it was true a year ago. They only had one guy on stolen vehicles for the entire state of Ohio that was keeping all the cases, you know, organized Yeah. And deciding which which people to pursue. No. It's I had a case I had a case I had a case where we had ring video for the state patrol of somebody fencing property for as an automobile. So they stole the vehicle.
Norm Murdock [:Right? They took stolen property and exchanged it for a car, and we had it all. I mean, you know, it went through the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, and it went through the local registrar, and we had ring video. The the the county police up in Akron, Summit County, State of Ohio Patrol, Nothing. Nothing. Right. And we wonder why that
Brett Johnson [:one Yeah. And we wonder
Steve Palmer [:why our
Brett Johnson [:insurance rates
Norm Murdock [:are through the roof.
Brett Johnson [:Sure. So look. One little piece of it
Steve Palmer [:right there. Victim. Yes. We're all victims of this because somebody pays for this pole to be fixed. Now if you look when you go out there, look, it's it's it's like the Leaning Tower of Pisa now. And so there there is a victim. We are all victims of this. So crime takes its toll on society, and look what they're doing in New York.
Steve Palmer [:And now you've got, who's the mayor or the governor of New York? Now she's backtracking.
Norm Murdock [:Hochul.
Steve Palmer [:Hochul. Now she's sort of backtracking, like, alright. We're gonna start, having a heightened identification security for people to get on the subways. Alright. You mean, like, stopping In
Norm Murdock [:searches. In searches. Their bag.
Steve Palmer [:So it's sort of like when Giuliani cleaned up New York back in the eighties.
Norm Murdock [:Hey, Steve. With the National Guard. So when Tom Cotton, a a a senator US senator, he wrote an op ed piece for the New York Times that said, it's so bad in New York City, we they ought to they ought to send the National Guard in, for mass transit. Right? And they fired the editor of the opinion page of The New York Times, Barry Weiss. They fired her because she she let that op ed piece go.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Here we are. Here we are 3 years later.
Steve Palmer [:And it's happening.
Norm Murdock [:And the New York Times says it's a good idea now.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:But it was racist. 3 years ago, it was racist
Steve Palmer [:for Tom White. Happening now? Their pocketbooks. It's hitting their
Norm Murdock [:Well, it's a Democrat idea now, so it's not racist.
Steve Palmer [:Right. And it's too When
Norm Murdock [:it was a Republican suggestion, it was racist.
Steve Palmer [:The the they just call them flipper because now it's now their pockets are getting picked because nobody's going to New York. The the you know, people are fleeing like rats on a burning ship. So alright. Well, we've been at it a long time. We better cut it off. Okay. Brett, you got your word of the day.
Brett Johnson [:You know what? I do. Hold on one second.
Steve Palmer [:This is and by the way, for those who don't know, this is Brett's word of the day where we're taking definitions that didn't exist before and now they exist or definitions that have changed.
Brett Johnson [:This affects all 3 of us. Okay. Pretty privilege. It's a noun. It's an unearned and most unacknowledged societal advantage that a person has by fitting into the beauty standards of their culture.
Steve Palmer [:That's us. Oh my gosh.
Brett Johnson [:That is us. We have we have pretty privilege.
Steve Palmer [:What? Because
Brett Johnson [:of how we look.
Steve Palmer [:And now now that's in green. See what's interesting to me, when you create these definitions and you write them down, they they carry with them some air of authority. Like, now we
Brett Johnson [:We have pretty privilege privilege. Right. Handsome privilege, probably, for us. Right? Handsome privilege. Meanwhile,
Steve Palmer [:we're all working our asses off to try to earn a living. Right. And so as privileged as it as it seems, it sure doesn't feel that way.
Brett Johnson [:No. It
Steve Palmer [:doesn't. No.
Brett Johnson [:It doesn't. Yeah. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:Well, that's that's the pretty privilege is like when the Hollywood stars go up to congress and, Meryl Streep says, oh, there's a lar being sprayed on our apples, and people listen to her because she's pretty.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Yeah. Well, that's a different pretty privilege. Alright. Well, with that, we're gonna wrap it up. Brought to you again by Harper Plus Accounting. This is Common Sense Ohio, where you can check us out at commonsenseohioshow.com. And by the way, do us a solid, man.
Steve Palmer [:Like it, share it. Like it, share it. We've got stuff going on on Facebook, so if you wanna just go there, where knows how to get there, at least anybody over, like, 30. I find my kids are not my kid got kicked off Facebook because all he was using it for was Marketplace. But, anyway, he,
Norm Murdock [:Hey, Steve. Some some self hey, guys. Brett, some self deprecating humor. So so let's turn the howitzers on ourselves. You know, this is kinda like the EV, you know, electric vehicle adoption, statistics where, like, you know, there's 4 people that own them, and then, and then when 12 own them, you could say, oh my god. You know, it's gone up 300%. So our our our listenership and our viewers, we could say that it has tripled in the last 2 weeks.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So it's gone from 1,000,000 to 3,000,000.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Minus minus a few zeros. But, yeah. So like Steve says, please subscribe. Go to our Facebook page.
Norm Murdock [:Go to our website. Please, people. Even if you disagree with us, you have to say we're entertaining.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And and by the way, send send if you got a question, send it in. You go to commonsenseioshow.com and send a question there. There's an easy contact form. If you wanna do it on Facebook, we monitor that stuff too. And if you think you got the chops to hang with Norm at the round table, just give us a shout, and we'll bring you in. And, he loves everybody. We'll bring you in, and and he'll
Norm Murdock [:I do.
Steve Palmer [:He'll beat on you with his logic and and and love. So, anyway, alright. So this is Common Sense IO coming at you right from the middle at least until now.
