“Branding’s not this big nebulous thing. It indicates how people feel about the company and how the public sees you in the public domain, whether it be digital, word-of-mouth, all of those things create your brand. In the world we live in today, your social and digital proof is really everything.” Claire Sakaoka, Owner and Chief Strategist of engage5w
So, you have a great product, a dedicated team, and a desire to reach people. But how do you get your message across in this world of rapidly dwindling attention spans, short videos, and online reviews?
Branding, or crafting a narrative of your company and its interactions with customers, prospects, and anyone else, is vital. Your brand sticks with people, creating loyal customers who share positive experiences with friends and family or passionate haters rife with negative social media comments. As a contractor, your reputation becomes intertwined with your brand, creating opportunities for you.
Claire Sakaoka brings twenty years of experience in writing, marketing, and branding to help you build your brand and reach customers where they are.
Topics discussed in this interview:
- What is branding?
- How do marketing and branding interact?
- How does branding impact a construction/home improvement business?
- Copywriting and contractors
- Hiring and working with copywriters
- Taking advantage of social media marketing
- Web design and blogging
- Targeting specific customers
- Under-used social media platforms with potential
- Rapid-fire questions
Contact Claire at claire@engage5w.com, visit her site engage5w.com, or find her on social media.
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Claire Sakaoka:
:The common theme with branding is having really good content. And so while you can kind of bone up and learn tools and different new technologies that come onto the market, the underlying need is content.
Ryan Bell:
:Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of building and remodeling. I'm Ryan Bell of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty metal, roofing and other building materials. And today, my co-host is Todd Miller. Todd, how are you doing today?
Todd Miller:
:Doing great. I'm enjoying being in this seat today. Let you be in the hot seat.
Ryan Bell:
:Yeah. So, Todd is typically the host and we have switched roles for this this episode. So, Todd, that means you are the one that gets to share perhaps a dad joke or limerick that you might have.
Todd Miller:
:Hey, I just may have a couple of jokes. Don't have any limericks for you today. Sorry about that Ryan, but okay, so I heard there today that a pirate went to his doctor and he told the doctor, he said, I don't know what to do. I've got moles on my back. And the doctor says, okay, well, let me look at them. And now the doctor looks at his back and says, Oh, don't worry about them. They're benign. And the pirate said, You better check again, I think they're be ten. Okay. And my other horrible groaner of the day, see, you know, poor Bigfoot. Sometimes Bigfoot gets confused with Sasquatch. Happens a lot. Yeti never complains. Yet, he never complains. There we go.
Ryan Bell:
:Okay, great. Nice. That was, so this is our third episode recording today. And this is the first one we shared jokes in.
Todd Miller:
:It is, it is.
Ryan Bell:
:Am I right?
Todd Miller:
:Well, you know, it's the end of the day, on a Friday. So something exciting had to happen.
Ryan Bell:
:Alright, well, before we dive in, I do want to mention that a little game we like to play here on Construction Disruption is challenge words. And we have all given each other a challenge word to try to work into the conversation somehow. So for our listeners to just kind of keep an ear out and try to listen the first word that maybe doesn't sound quite natural and then we will reveal those to you at the end. So today's guest is Claire Sakaoka. Claire, I hope I'm pronouncing that correct. She is the owner and chief strategist of engage5w, a digital marketing brand strategy and copywriting agency in Springfield, Missouri. With over 20 years of experience in PR marketing and digital media management, Claire is an expert at facilitating and creating mission-focused initiatives that strengthen entire organizations. She is a thought leader in the areas of website marketing, strategy and development, social media and online communication and branding. Claire, thank you so much for joining us today on Construction Disruption.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Thank you. It's really good to be here.
Ryan Bell:
:Well, we are excited to have you. So your career has has taken you through some big roles where you've led companies through some rebranding initiatives. And being a branding fanatic myself, I'm pretty excited about our conversation today. I think that most people usually associate the term branding with a logo, but really it's really so much more than that. Can you give us and our listeners kind of a brief overview of what your definition of branding is?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Sure. And it's actually it's not just my definition, so I can't lay claim to that. Yeah, but you're absolutely right. A lot of people do when they start out thinking that they're going to create a brand, the very first thing you think of is, Oh, well, of course I need a logo. Right. But when I think about it, and this I didn't think about this actually being related to construction, but when you go to remodel a room in your house, how often does it end up that you end up remodeling the entire house by the time you're done with it? Well, you know, in this case, one room represents your logo, but you're really just building your house as far as the brand is concerned. So your brand, it's an all encompassing label that applies to how others view you, how you feel or not, how you feel, oh yeah, it could be you, but how others feel about your company. So it's not just how you appear, but it's also, it indicates how people feel about the company and how the public sees you in the public domain, whether it be digital, word-of-mouth, all of those things create your brand. And so with everyone, everyone and every company has a brand. And the question really is, what is it? It's not just the logo, although that certainly is helpful. Is it, you know, communicating the right field, you have the right message? You start asking these really probing questions about who's your audience. You have to think about branding as far as, see I just turned it into an action word. Brand is no longer like the static word, but when you start applying it to create your brand, it becomes an action word. So you become, yeah, you start branding. So when you start that process of identifying your brand, you start bringing up your strategy. You go and look at your company goals, your business plan, what sort of strategies that you want to take to achieve those goals. We're talking about marketing tactics, whether it be the creation of your logo through why you're going to use that logo on your website, your business cards, all the way down through the different elements that that you start thinking about when you start thinking about marketing. And the end result of it is you're trying to achieve the goal. The goal of maybe it's you're trying to sell more tangerines, or maybe you're trying to increase theq sales through your website. Maybe that's your your high conversion tactic there. But yeah, often people start with a logo, which then leads hopefully to a website, which is absolutely one of the best places to start building your branding foundation. You really can't brand and market yourself without a website. Not in this day and time. In the world we live in today, your social and digital proof is really everything.
Ryan Bell:
:Man, I couldn't agree more with that. You know, we've been over the last month or two kind of going through some internal discussions on writing taglines and slogans for our company. And I read something the other day that, you know, said it's basically if you wait long enough, your customers will write your tagline for you. And I think that speaks a lot about branding and really how much your customers have to do with your branding, not just what you do with it or intend to do with it.
Claire Sakaoka:
:It's very true. Yeah, absolutely. And you can often get stuck in the weeds with your captions.
Ryan Bell:
:Oh, absolutely. Would you say and I don't know that there's a great answer to this or a right or wrong answer, but would you say marketing falls under branding or vice versa?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I would say that marketing is part of branding. Branding is, well, you can have a brand. You don't have to market it because everyone has a brand. But in order to build your brand, you do have to market it. So yes, I would say that marketing falls under the guise of branding. You can market and you can, when you market your brand, you think about what I just said there. Replace that with when you market, tangerines, for instance. Or, you know, when you market something, a product. Well, your brand becomes part of your product line if you start thinking about that. Sometimes that's an easier way to look at a brand. It's like, okay, it's not this big nebulous thing. But when you start marketing your brand, you start thinking about ways to promote what your your message is, what your mission of the organization is. All of these things come into play. Your tone of voice as far as, I don't mean like whether you're yelling or screaming. I mean, like whether you're coming across as a rustic log home maker or, you know, where, you know, suddenly you start envisioning a warm sort of feel to a website or to a message in a campaign. It all comes together.
Ryan Bell:
:That makes a lot of sense. It's very emotional and feelings based. Is there a certain vertical inside the realm of branding that you find yourself really being drawn to? Or is it more of the, you know, this kind of 30,000 foot view of branding that you're passionate about?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I, you know, the common theme with branding is having really good content. And so while you can kind of bone up and learn tools and different new technologies that come onto the market, the underlying need is content. And so I would say that that's where I really drilled down and started to specialize, not started to but been specializing for quite a long time, is creating really top notch content that that helps to tell a company's story. And actually that's the name of my company is engage5w. And when I founded it back and I always think it was 2012, seems like forever ago, is that the reason behind that name is that five Ws, if you go back to grade school, is the who, what, when, where and why of every story. And so if you can tell the who, what, when, where and why of your company, you can create your brand. And so when you do that, you can then translate the very same foundation to any platform, whether it be your website, Facebook, any of the different tools that have come on the scene since my career started that help you communicate.
Ryan Bell:
:So content creation, I think is really so important, but also very hard. And I have some questions planned out that I'll ask later, but I don't think people realize how much goes into creating good content because the Internet is filling up with so much, so much information and so much stuff. Do you have a process or anything that you follow for content creation, for good content creation, or is it more just kind of brainstorming what you think would work well?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I do. I actually have over the years created a, it's not a bulletproof process, but it's definitely a good guide and it helps facilitate good conversation. I have a number of different sort of branding questionnaires that I lead clients through that, that it's, you know, it's a very participatory process because when you're trying to tell the story of another company or trying to help them figure out what it is that they do best. It becomes very much focus group style, sort of just conversation-based. But it does have a structure. And so I have put a structure to that. And by the end of the process, what the product is, is taking the tone and also the expertise of whoever it is I'm speaking with and trying to translate it and put it into marketing yet conversational speak that addresses their client's pain points and offers the solutions so they can then convert to a sale in a very authentic way. Rather than having some sort of, you know, gimmick or flash in the pan campaign. You're really getting down to what makes that company tick and how it is they want to do business.
Ryan Bell:
:So a large majority of our audience is obviously in the home improvement or construction industry. What value does proper branding and communication offer to a small business owner or leader that's in this industry?
Claire Sakaoka:
:It really lays the foundation for all of their communication efforts going forward. So if they can create a solid brand for themselves and tell their story very succinctly and authentically. And when I say tell their story, I don't mean you have to have some big tale about how your business came into being. I only mean you have to be able to talk about what you do with a little passion and it doesn't have to have some sort of key selling point. Because like you said, you're in a very service-based industry and while you might your customer might be consumer-facing, but they might also be B2B. So it's just really being able to show that you are the expert in whatever area it is. And by going in and really laying that foundation, you're setting yourself up for success. Because any time you create a marketing campaign, where do you try to drive traffic to? You might have a really great landing page that your advertising agency created, but when they click that convert button, where does it take them? And is that the point that your lead disappears? And if it is, that's when you know, you have not created a brand at the very foundational level, which is your website. You can have the best ad agency in the world. But if your website doesn't convert with the copy that's existing there and the design, which, you know, design does play a big part too, then that's the missing link.
Ryan Bell:
:So copyright writing is obviously, you know, a big part of the communication process and part of what you do. I would kind of venture to guess that it's not something most construction professionals think about very much. What would your advice be in regards to copywriting and construction? How important is it? And do you have any tips for hiring a copywriter or what to look for for someone in this industry that wants to focus on that?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I do. Okay, so in regards to copywriting, I'm not a construction expert, so I'm going to try to throw a little bit of a comparison out there. And if it doesn't work out, just kind of bear with me on it and kind of, you know, I'll ask forgiveness later. But, you know, when you think about building a house, the first thing you prepare is the construction site and you prepare to pour the foundation. So I'm thinking copyrighting. Now, bear with me again, is part of your website's foundation. So I mean, absolutely, if you were to translate that over to a house foundation, the copyrighting is the water that goes into the cement mix. It might even be the accelerator. I know some. I told my husband he used to do concrete. So he told me they put accelerator and colors and different things into concrete. Well, water is the closest comparison I can say to seeing. Copyrighting, good copy on your website is the water that goes into the foundation. Now, that is not to say that if you didn't have the mix, which I would say is the design, you still, you need both. You need both design and copy. They go together. So, you know, this type of you know, if you don't have a website that has good copy, then you will find that people will find your website and that's it. I mean, they might find, they may not even find the website because actually copy is one of the biggest parts that makes you, and this is a horrible way to say it, findable. You know, on Google if you don't have copy, Google doesn't see you. They don't see pictures. You know, the way that they're ranking you for any sort of keyword usage is through your copy. And so you could have a beautiful website that only has pictures and it's not going to do you any good at all. So you do need good copy. I would say tips for hiring a good copywriter. So, while it's useful if somebody does have a little bit of a construction background, you don't actually want them to have too much experience in this area because you're the expert as the construction person or you know, that is your expertise area. So why do you need to go find somebody that has that? You just need to find somebody that knows how to write, A, number one. Right. But not just any sort of writing. It's best to look for somebody that has expertise in branding or in looking at things from a marketing perspective. You want to look for somebody that has a good ear for capturing what makes your company different. Someone that can listen to and create your company's story while drawing on your expertise and with the goal of communicating your services and telling your key selling points. You want to look for somebody who has a process in place. Like with any construction process, you want a clearly defined timeline and you want to have your expectations outlined. Because writing can be one of those processes that can go on and on and on. So you want to know exactly when your copy is coming back to you. And then on the flip side of that, as a good client, you want to get that copy back to the writer as soon as possible so that you can get your website design. So just know that when you go into a copywriting process, there will be a little bit of work on your end of it as far as getting things moving and keeping them moving and approving that draft. I would say third or fourth, I'm not even sure what I'm on, you know, don't hire the cheapest. And I know this is one of those things where you are having probably a hard time thinking, well, I'm trying to figure out why I even hired a writer to begin with. But if you look at it from the perspective of you can spend, you know, 200 bucks over here hiring the cheapest writer around, which typically I'm just going to be completely blunt, is outsourced to non-English speaking individuals who are doing the very best they can, trying to master the English language, but they're also working for like, you know, a cent on the word. So you kind of get what you pay for. You know, as you look at this, what they deliver to you, it's what I call word soup. You look at it and you think, I feel like I should like this, and all the sentences are complete, there's no grammatical errors. But for some reason, I couldn't figure out what the heck they're saying. So, you know, where do you see something like that? You know, you've just been served up a big bowl of word soup, and it's just a waste of time. And Google will see right through that, too. You know, that's the interesting thing about Google is that it's really smart. It will find and look for discrepancies and know if it makes sense, amazingly enough or not. And so, yeah, I would say don't hire the cheapest shop around. And then, most importantly, ask for samples. Any good copywriter, unless you're just getting started, which, you know, that's not a bad avenue to go with if you trust the person or if you've heard good things about them or, you know, if you just want to take a chance on that. But they should be thrilled to send you examples of their work.
Ryan Bell:
:So a good copywriter will keep SEO or have SEO in mind when they're writing anything for you?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Absolutely, yes. And you could even make that part of your your contract with the copywriter is that you do a keyword analysis before you get started so that you are feeling very confident that whatever copy that they work with or create for you will contain those keywords.
Todd Miller:
:So you mentioned that, you know, part of the process will be, you know, you'll have the the copy sent back to you and you have to prove it. Would you caution folks at that point when they're going through that approval process? Just look at it with the eyes of what's factual, what's true, what's what do I want to get out there, and tell them to kind of keep their nose out of the SEO end of things if they have a good copywriter.
Claire Sakaoka:
:It really is a partnership. And I've had clients on both ends of the spectrum that they want to have, you know, control over every word versus the client who looks at it and I wish they would be a little more engaged. And I would say that there is a healthy balance, and that is to, if you're hiring a professional copywriter and you feel like the onboarding process went well and you got your message across and you feel like, you know that they're well equipped to write for you, then trust that the style they're writing in, unless it's just completely outside the box, away from where you thought it would be. Trust that that is what's going to help convert people to buy from you because that's what you hired them for. And if and say, you know, you're really maybe muddying the process up a bit if you try to to wrest the control back over. But if it's something huge, you know, if you're if it's like they come across and they're talking about, you know, maybe the tones just wrong, maybe you're really, really professional and they came back and they're saying like, Hey, y'all. Yeah, those things of course you want to get in there and be like, okay, no, no, no. But those are the things that should have been caught in the onboarding process with your copywriter. They should know that that's not the way that you want it written.
Ryan Bell:
:Would you say that like and you can answer no comment to this, but an agency that is like an SEO agency, are they typically good, trustworthy copywriters? Is that kind of like an SEO expert and copywriting, would you consider that interchangeable?
Claire Sakaoka:
:It depends, you know? That's a really good question. So it really depends. It depends on, well, the company, of course there are definitely good content SEO or, you know, people that can write search engine optimization style articles. However, if it's simply if it feels like it's a machine process than it probably is. If it's and that typically is sort of toward the bottom of the price range that you typically run into that. It kind of runs the though they probably even use artificial intelligence to put your keywords in and come up with some content, which to say is that there's nothing really wrong with that except that you're not going to that type of SEO type of content. If you go to that type of company, it will not resonate with your actual audience. It will perhaps help Google initially, but it's just gonna look very generic. So I would say that there are some SEO companies that, I've even written for some of them, that white label that do it right. You know, they hire out to a professional copywriter and say, these are the keywords, this is a keyword long term that we need, but they're not forcing me to put it in there if it absolutely doesn't fit.
Ryan Bell:
:Makes sense. Good answer. Kind of a segueing into social media here. Just want to pick your brain a little bit on social media. Something that's always been hard for me personally to try to figure out when it comes to our industry. I love using social media, you know, for personal reasons, but when it comes to home improvement construction, I think it's very hard for smaller, you know, construction, home improvement related companies to compete for attention on social media, especially with everything that's out there. Do you have any advice on standing out when you work in an industry like roofing or replacement windows, or is social media maybe just a waste of time and energy?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I would say social media, as with anything, if you approach it kind of like you're throwing darts at a dart board, you don't have a real clear strategy as to why you're doing it. It can feel like a waste of time and it might be a waste of time. However, on the flip side of that, if you take a little bit of time on the onset to figure out who it is that you're trying to talk to on social media, who is the customer and where they're currently at, whether it be on Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn, then you can work backward from that and think about what sort of pain points those individuals on Instagram have or what might they be interested in. And think about your messaging. And when you start doing that, that's not a waste of time because you're going to start building a potential customer base at the same time that you're building your credibility. So I would say that the biggest mistake I see service and product-based or just any business make in social media is by treating it the same way they would a TV commercial or a radio ad. Back when I was in school, we called this mass communication, which was my 101 class, and we had like 130 people in that class. But where you have the one message that goes out to like 20,000 people or, you know, it's that mass communication, that social media is the anti of. You know, it's taking time to figure out who it is you're talking to for social media. When you create one message and expect it to sell everywhere, that's where you will lose people on social media. And I would say a good rule of thumb for that, trying to, you know, stay away from that is your 80/20 rule, which is that 80% of what you share on social media should be something that is helping the potential person watching it or listening or reading it helps them solve a problem. Or it could be entertaining or it could be that you're kind of giving an ad away to a partner or, you know, it's something that's not overtly selling your product. Now that's only 80%, so you still have 20% there where you can run, you know, high-converting campaigns. But even then you want to watch your messaging because if it starts to look too canned, people won't even see it when they're scrolling through their feed. It has to have a unique selling proposition. And typically you do have to think about that because it's so hyper targeted when you're on social media, which is actually really cool because you can do that. You know, maybe you're looking for that, that specific person between the age of 40 and 50 that, you know, I don't know what it might be, but you can really drill down and put a little piece of information right in front of them. Which is pretty cool. So, you know, I guess I would say that overall, you know, with me being in the industry and given that I am biased, it's not a waste of time. But if you aren't willing to take the time to really figure out why you're doing it, then you probably aren't ready for it either. You know, it's not something that you want to invest your time in, and that's fair. There may be other things that are more higher converting at the moment that that maybe you don't necessarily need feel the need to add social media as a component. What I will say is that it does help build your brand. So we're back to that again. You know, build your brand. It does help build your brand. So perhaps select one or two platforms to get started with rather than trying to do them all.
Ryan Bell:
:It makes sense, I think lack of presence, you know, especially on the big social networks, you know, could leave potential customers to question if you're even in business, you know, which is maybe an unfortunate side effect of not investing in social media. But I guess the roadblock I've always put in my mind is thinking of how to post about that 20% and not really thought about or focused on that other 80%, which is really just providing value. Good advice. A lot to unpack there and think about. Moving on to websites a little bit. You know, you've alluded to this before and I believe websites, you know, they're an extremely vital part of any business these days. But I'm always shocked by the number of small businesses that either don't have a website at all or they have a very dated-looking website. Do you have any advice for our listeners in regards to website strategy and development and what they should be kind of considering or thinking about going into 2023?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Well, I would say that if you don't have a website, just as you're saying, you definitely need one. If you have one, and right on, it's like you were in my head when I was looking at this. But it's, you know, it hasn't been touched in years. You definitely need to go back and review it, look at the content that's on it, look at the way that it looks, how does it appear? How does it appear compared to your competitors? Because if someone lands on your site and then they go on, look at your competitors site, which one? And maybe they're both dated, I don't know. But for me, let's say that your competitor updated their website last year and they're looking all slick and high-converting and just modernized. And you have the same website since 1998. You aren't going to be putting your best foot forward before you even talk to the client or the potential customer. So I would say definitely look at that. Maybe it's time to to get not only new content for the website, but if if it's really from 1998, you definitely need a new design. It doesn't have to be super fancy. It just really needs to tell your story. Well, you know, go back and build on to your your products and your services so that that people can understand what it is that you do. And then also feel like you're trustworthy and credible within the industry. And when you have a website that looks dated, they start thinking. First, they're probably like, Oh, are they even in business still? Or, you know, they start questioning it where, okay, well, this person has a way for me to just click through and step to a call or an appointment or, you know, it gives me a tour of their building. Whereas over here, it's like dark green and white and everything's in a box. And I just don't know what's going on there. And so, like it or not, people are judging you, and you want to just think about it. When you go out there and you're even looking at a restaurant, to go eat you're looking at reviews, you're looking at everything before you even decide if you're going to have lunch. So, you know, if you're hoping that people are going to your website is going to make a huge renovation type of purchase, it's definitely worth the investment. You'll make your money back fast.
Ryan Bell:
:I read something the other day that said a website should never be finished. There's never and end point. There's never a 'our website's finished.' It should always be something you're working on.
Claire Sakaoka:
:That's very true.
Ryan Bell:
:I thought that was really cool.
Claire Sakaoka:
:And you know where I would recommend you continue adding content, a blog. And yes, blog. It still invokes fear in the hearts of a lot of people. But really, really and truly, a blog is a place where you might even call it something else. Maybe you call it resources. Maybe it's something that once a month you have someone on your team write up, or you maybe during your team meeting, you're talking about frequently asked questions. And one of these questions that your clients or customers keep bringing up, you could turn into a short blog or article and push it onto your website and then push it out to whatever Facebook you decide to be on. Or Facebook, Facebook could be a good one. Whatever social media you decide to be on and help promote yourself that way and that builds your credibility.
Todd Miller:
:You know, it's really serendipitous that you're our guest here today. I've been thinking a lot about websites recently. I want to kind of run something by you. And we don't often here on the show talk about our business and exactly what we do, but I want to run this by you. So we manufacture metal roofing that doesn't necessarily look like metal roofing. Well, our products are fairly high-end, but we manufacture products that are indeed metal, but maybe they look like high-end wood shakes or slate or even shingles or tile or something. So I often think about, you know, the homeowner out there, and it used to be they didn't know much about metal roofing. And we think they usually came to our industry's websites just by searching for roofing. But I do think today they are searching for metal roofing. But I often think that in their mind, you know, a metal roof is what they think of on a barn or a commercial. It's that vertical seam. So they come to a website that pulls up in their Google results from searching for metal roofing. And the immediate visuals are our product. I often think they just bounce right out of there because this isn't metal roofing. But I'm just curious, do you think that's a risk in our industry that, you know, they've got and they're thinking they're gonna find one thing? They immediately, their visual is they don't see what they thought they were gonna see. So they just bounce and go on to the next, next person.
Claire Sakaoka:
:It could be, yeah. Yeah, it's like it could maybe even branded as this isn't your grandpa's metal roofing.
Todd Miller:
:We've seen that done. Yeah we've seen that done a few times. I just, yeah I often tell people when they're looking at their website, you know, put yourself in your website visitor's shoes, think about how they got there, what they Googled in order to get to your website and do they find it immediately when they get there? Because I know my habits and in surfing are, or whatever you call it, searching are, you know, if I ended up on a website, it doesn't seem to be what I was looking for. I make my decision pretty quick and I'm out of there and on to the next one.
Claire Sakaoka:
:It's five seconds.
Todd Miller:
:Is that what it is?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Five seconds or less, and sometimes it's three.
Todd Miller:
:So, man, you really do have to engage them quickly then and convince them that, you know, you either are what they're looking for or somehow you've got the answer to to meet their pain or whatever it is they're they're looking for.
Claire Sakaoka:
:It's true. And, you know, thinking more on that, that question you had is that and I haven't done my due diligence and been out to really study your website deeply. But you may have articles to this effect, but really going in to detail about different types of roofing that you do have, but then also trying to relate it and perhaps using client testimonials to describe the impact that having this type of roof has made for them in their lives or for the purpose that they were seeking. You know, just trying to bring it back around.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, everything's about impact these days. You're absolutely right. Good stuff, good stuff.
Ryan Bell:
:So when it comes to everything we've talked about today, branding, marketing, social media, are there any opportunities that you see out there right now that might have tremendous potential for someone in the construction industry? Is there anything that is, you know, just perhaps being missed in our industry that could easily be a home run?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I do have a couple of ideas surrounding this. So, one of them, and I know just depending on which vertical that you're in or where your customer is at, meaning that if you have a direct to consumer versus B2B, you'll have two different types of tactics that you might use. For us, for instance, for direct to consumer, I would recommend looking at Pinterest and Instagram, and I do think those are often overlooked for construction industry folks because it's kind of a fluffy feeling and it's kind of like you're thinking, Oh, I see those reels, you know, the dogs are jumping out everywhere all of a sudden. But people are there, they're eating that up. And it's not to say that you have to make that type of reel. Be true to your brand. But also one reason that you might look specifically at Pinterest is that statistically, women are the financial decision makers in the household. And if they're not the financial decision makers, they're certainly the ones that are making a lot of the home-based decisions as far as like pushing their partners to go out and and get that new roof or remodel their their home or whatever it might be. But they're looking at Pinterest. And, you know, I'm going to say we, because yeah I'm a woman. I'm out there looking at Pinterest thinking, okay, I want ideas for anything and everything. My son graduated from high school. I have a pin board for graduation ideas. Pinterest ranks highly in Google too. So I would say if you haven't explored Pinterest as far as, especially if you do a lot of before and after pictures, that would be completely a good, good platform to try. Instagram the same way, you could do a lot of before and after type of video. You know, reels sound intimidating, which that's R-E-E-L-S for those of you that don't really do Instagram. That's where those videos are popping up. Your kids are looking at people dancing and all those things. Well, any time you post video to Instagram now, the Instagram automatically converts it into a reel which is good. You think, Oh, what do I care? It's good because Instagram is promoting the heck out of their reels right now and they're putting them in front of their ideal audiences, trying to get more and more people to use reels as a platform because they're trying to compete with TikTok. So, you know, we're going to use their own competitive spirit to get more eyeballs on content, so I would say. Consider women as a target. Look at Pinterest and Instagram, that's direct to consumer. B2B, LinkedIn is your best bet, and I know that seems like such a boring platform for a lot of people, but that's only because you haven't really used it. You've gone out there, you're like, Why do I keep getting these invitations to connect? What do I care? Who do I know? I don't know that person. They're trying to sell me something. Well, and you're thinking, Why do I want to go out there and try to sell people something? You don't have to sell if it's already something they're looking for. And so you kind of go out there and you start using it as a database. So think of LinkedIn as a database to where after you have your profile looking good, you can go out and try to and start connecting with very strategic people that you are targeting. Like I noticed that Isaiah Industries, for example, I did see this on your website that you work with a lot of architects, is that right?
Todd Miller:
:Correct.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Yeah. So architects are all over LinkedIn and so that that is a great place to try and at the bare minimum, let them know that you exist. And so LinkedIn is your professional B2B type of platform. Create a company page definitely, too out there.
Todd Miller:
:Cool. I love LinkedIn.
Ryan Bell:
:We do. I'm really starting to like LinkedIn a lot too, it's becoming my preferred social network. Pinterest, we do have a dealer that has been very successful and I haven't talked to them for a while, but for a while there he was very successful with with Pinterest. And I don't use it much, but man, that place is like a hole. Like I think Pinterest is a bigger hole, even for me as a guy, then Facebook or Twitter or Instagram, anything else. You can get sucked in so easily to Pinterest, at least for me.
Claire Sakaoka:
:I think so too. Yeah, I like Pinterest a lot, because it just it cuts out the fluff.
Ryan Bell:
:Yeah. Do you have any advice for folks who are just getting started in their careers? You know what advice would you have for them to have a long and fulfilling career?
Claire Sakaoka:
:So this question kind of makes me feel old, but that's okay. No, it's good. And then I stop to think about it and I'm like, Yeah, I guess I am kind of getting there. So when I think about this, I would say, continue learning and upskilling. Be ready, and this is something I've had to do throughout my career, is pivot. Be ready to pivot your business to where your customers are. And that sounds pretty vague and it sounds kind of like a fortune cookie, but it's really not. If you think about it, it's very simple. If you find something that's working, mine it. Don't think, Oh, well, I've never done that before. I'm not sure if I can do it. Go out and figure out how to do it and mine that until it is empty. Because by the time it's empty, something else will have come up and you'll be able to say, okay, I can pivot over here. And my business well sure, I can do that too. Why not? So one of the examples that comes up for the construction industry and it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on on this, too, but the the green initiative, you know, trying to figure out how to incorporate green business into, and I know I'm probably saying that exactly right. But there's money coming down from the very top if you can get in on it, from what I understand. But we look at ways to incorporate that into your current business model as a potential kind of investment opportunity, because there there may be potential for a different type of customer coming to you for that very specific service. So don't be afraid to invest and pivot and invest in yourself and your business.
Ryan Bell:
:Good stuff. Well, thanks so much for your time today Claire. We're wrapping up the business end of things here. And this has been a real pleasure and privilege to hear your thoughts on all this. Is there anything that we haven't covered today that you'd like to share with our audience?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Oh, gosh, I really appreciate you guys having me here today. And as I think about maybe kind of final words to leave you with or one thought to leave behind to emphasize some of the things that that we've talked about. I would say that, if people only know what they know about you because they've heard about you word of mouth through customer referrals, or they've seen an ad on TV or radio or maybe something, maybe something online they've Googled and found your Web site. So all those things I just mentioned, go back and review. Kind of look at it through fresh eyes as if you've never seen your brand before. Do you like what you see? Are those channels actually working for you still? And if they aren't, you might need to look at refreshing your brand a little bit and looking at new messaging.
Ryan Bell:
:That sounds great, but not like not very easy to do.
Claire Sakaoka:
:No, it's not. And you take it in steps. That's true, too. You know, there's really not a deadline to that. So I would say if there's one step to start with, I would say look at your website.
Ryan Bell:
:Yeah, good stuff. Well, thank you for sharing that. So before we close out, I have to ask if you would like to participate in our rapid-fire questions. These are seven questions that kind of range from serious to silly. And your only commitment is to provide a short answer to each one. Our audience needs to understand that if Claire agrees to this, she has no idea what we're about to ask her. So, Claire, are you up for the challenge of our rapid-fire questions?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I am ready.
Ryan Bell:
:Awesome. I don't think we've ever had anybody say no. Have we, Todd?
Todd Miller:
:No, we've had people be hesitant.
Ryan Bell:
:Hesitant? Yeah. You will be the 70th episode, Claire that has said yes to rapid-fire.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Awesome.
Ryan Bell:
:Todd, do you want to? We usually alternate. Todd, Do you want to kick things off?
Todd Miller:
:I would love to. So, Claire, question number one. This is an easy one. Do you prefer hot or cold weather?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Hot.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, I'm right there with you.
Ryan Bell:
:I'm a cold weather guy. I could live in Alaska. What fast food restaurant has the best french fries?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Culver's.
Ryan Bell:
:Ooh, good answer.
Todd Miller:
:That's interesting. They got the little crinkle fries, don't they?
Claire Sakaoka:
:It does, yeah.
Todd Miller:
:I haven't had those in a while. Now you got me thinking for the weekend.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Or Braums, Braums is a close second there too.
Todd Miller:
:See, we don't have those around here.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Missing out.
Todd Miller:
:Every once in a while, when I'm in Texas or Oklahoma, I'll stop by one. But yeah, we don't have them here in Ohio. Well, question number three, talking about eating things. If you had to eat a crayon, what color of crayon would you chose to eat?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Tangerine.
Todd Miller:
:Perfect, absolutely perfect.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Seems it would be light and fruity.
Todd Miller:
:Nothing waxy.
Claire Sakaoka:
:No, no.
Ryan Bell:
:When you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Veterinarian. I always had a great love of animals.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, very cool.
Ryan Bell:
:How many pets do you have?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I currently have two dogs and one hamster. But at any given time, I always have at least two dogs. I'm allergic to cats, which is a real bummer because I really love cats too. But yeah.
Todd Miller:
:I'm kind of there with you. I think maybe I could be a cat person, but I am horribly allergic to them, so rules them out. Okay, it's my turn next, isn't it? Okay, question number five. If you could learn one new skill, just instantly learn one new skill, what would it be?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Drywalling.
Todd Miller:
:Wow, that is a really unusual one.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Yeah.
Ryan Bell:
:Can we ask why?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Well, because when we purchased our home, my husband does a lot of fix and flip home stuff, and so my daughter didn't actually have a room, and it was the most amazing thing. We had a loft area that he put drywall and built a wall for her. Just the funniest thing. Yeah, he built the wall for you, dear. But that would be a very useful skill to have. I can build words, but I can't build walls.
Ryan Bell:
:Yeah, that's true. Have you seen any of the videos going around where these guys are carry in the huge sheets by themselves and, like, throw it up and hold it up by themselves and start it?
Claire Sakaoka:
:No.
Ryan Bell:
:Oh, there's some pretty incredible drywall accounts. I think they're from like, you know, they're from guys that do drywall and they're just so good at it and they have some pretty successful social media accounts.
Claire Sakaoka:
:See, there you go. You guys could, any drywallers out there. That's the way to go.
Ryan Bell:
:Right.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Because as soon as I do a search, I'm going to be served up with a bunch of drywall video.
Ryan Bell:
:Something you would never think would entertain you on social media, right?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Might be trying it out.
Ryan Bell:
:Okay. So the next question has a little bit of a branding theme to it. Are you familiar with the new Kia logo?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Oh, gosh. No, I'm going to Google it. I am not sure that I am. Should I Google it real quick?
Ryan Bell:
:Oh, okay You can, yeah, if you want. So there's been it's made a lot of headlines and kind of gone around that. I think it's like thirty-some thousand searches a month now for KN car.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Oh, it does look like that.
Ryan Bell:
:My question was, do you love or hate the new Kia logo?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Not a fan, although...
Ryan Bell:
:No?
Claire Sakaoka:
:I don't know that I really like their old logo either, but this one doesn't. It violates rule number one, easy identification. You have to keep it simple.
Ryan Bell:
:That's what a lot of people have been saying.
Todd Miller:
:So people look at it and see KN and they see cars and so then they go Google, what's this KN car about, is that right?
Ryan Bell:
:Yes, correct.
Todd Miller:
:Wow, interesting. I had not heard that.
Claire Sakaoka:
:People are very dyslexic, too, because that N is not even in the right direction.
Todd Miller:
:Oh.
Ryan Bell:
:Good point. I didn't even think about that.
Todd Miller:
:That is interesting, though, because, yeah, I mean, I've seen the logo and I was not necessarily a fan either because I thought this is just, it's not clear. It's hard to understand. So that's interesting.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Well, we'll see. Yeah, it could be that they're trying to make it look a little more a little classier or something, maybe. I don't know.
Ryan Bell:
:Yeah, I think it looks a little more premium. I wasn't a fan of their previous logo. I have a Kia Stinger. And so when they came out, I waited until the new logo because I knew it was coming out, was on the cars before I got the Stinger. Just because I liked it more.
Claire Sakaoka:
:I like the yeah, I like the Kia cars. In fact, I used to have a Kia Spectra, but I could see why you'd want to do that because here's a branding problem for them is that people who have Kias aren't really even super proud that they have Kias. It's like they want to improve it. Maybe the people don't. Maybe that's the brilliance behind their new marketing is that people no longer know that that's really a Kia.
Ryan Bell:
:And honestly, that was certainly kind of true in my case.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Yeah, I could see that.
Todd Miller:
:You know, reminds me of a story from twenty-some years ago, but Oldsmobile came out, which doesn't even exist anymore. But they came out with a model called the Intrigue. And, you know, they had a lot of play on words. The Intrigue and that type of stuff was to say, introduce the car. But the first model year did not have any Oldsmobile branding on it. Didn't say Oldsmobile on it, didn't have the Oldsmobile logo, didn't have anything on it. And, you know, I had recognized that because we owned one and I had thought, you know, they did this on purpose just with the idea of intrigue. Later saw an interview with an automobile guy and he said, no, we completely missed it.We completely forgot to put the Oldsmobile logo on it.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Oh, gosh. That's an expensive mistake.
Todd Miller:
:So the second year it was out, it had the Oldsmobile logo on it.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Oh, wow.
Todd Miller:
:The first year. They're like, Yeah, we completely forgot it. Last question, what would you like to be remembered for?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Ooh, that's a tough one. You guys ended with a really tough one. I would like to be remembered, and this is going to sound super hokey and maybe I should go funny with this, but just as a good person. I don't want people to think back on me and think like, God, that Claire. She was a real terrible person. No, no. I just want to be like a good, you know, just be known as someone that was who she said she was. And it doesn't have to be anything complicated.
Todd Miller:
:I like that a lot. We should all aspire to that, that's for sure. And I would say you're well on your path there.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Thank you. I appreciate that.
Ryan Bell:
:Well, thank you so much. This has been great. We need to recap our challenge words before we close out here. I think everybody got them in and was successful. Correct, Todd? Your word was?
Todd Miller:
:My word was serendipitous. Thank you very much, Claire. That was a fun one.
Ryan Bell:
:Todd uses that word all the time, don't let him fool you.
Todd Miller:
:Probably all weekend, I'll find 20 ways to use it suddenly.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Suddenly, you'll have it pop into your head.
Todd Miller:
:Serendipitously, that will happen.
Ryan Bell:
:And Claire, your word was?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Tangerine.
Todd Miller:
:Man, you get bonus points. You must have used it like a half dozen times.
Claire Sakaoka:
:You're asking a word person to use a word.
Ryan Bell:
:We should have given you a harder word. And my word was limerick. So we were all successful in getting those in. Well, you know, Claire, this has been a pleasure. Again, you know, thank you for spending time with us today. For anybody that wants to get in touch with you, how can they most easily do that?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Shoot me an email at Claire@engage5w.com. Or just head on over to my website. You can find me there too. Or any other social media platforms you'll probably find me. LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me as well, so I give you any number of ways, but just the keywords to look for would be engage5w and that's with the number five. And then my first and last name, which my last name is Sakaoka. So if you start typing in Claire and then you start typing in S-A-K, I'm not that famous, so you probably have to keep typing. A-O-K-A, but I'll be there.
Ryan Bell:
:Wonderful, wonderful. Alright, we will make sure to leave links in the show notes as well.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Okay.
Todd Miller:
:So one quick question. I imagine engage5w works with clients all over the place. Is that correct?
Claire Sakaoka:
:Yes, that's correct.
Todd Miller:
:Okay. Just want to make that clear so everyone is free to contact you and yeah, you can help them out.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Yeah, be good to have a few good conversations and at least see, you know, needs assessment is a big deal. And maybe you don't know what you don't know.
Claire Sakaoka:
:Ryan Bell: Awesome. Well, thanks so much for for tuning in to this episode of Construction Disruption with Claire Sakaoka of engage5w. Please watch for future episodes of our podcast, we have more great guests on tap and don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Until then, change the world for someone. Make them smile and encourage them, two powerful things we can do to change the world. God bless, take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.