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Sherri Chung talks about the service industry of mixing creativity with commerce
Episode 18 • 8th August 2023 • The Music Room • The Sound Boutique
00:00:00 00:40:26

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Personal stories of inspiration from professional composers, songwriters and musicians.

In this episode, Gareth chats with composer Sherri Chung about attending San Diego Comic Con, being self-driven and the service industry of mixing creativity with commerce.

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Host: Gareth Davies

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Gareth:

Welcome to the music room.

Gareth:

At this time in the music room.

Sherri:

And so it turns out I was good at it.

Sherri:

And I, I say that I'm not jumping ahead in time, but I do want to say this

Sherri:

just so that your listeners don't think that I'm some sort of arrogant person.

Sherri:

I was very talented for my age.

Sherri:

And then my age caught up with my talent . So

Gareth:

Welcome to the Music Room, the podcast where I chat with composers,

Gareth:

songwriters and musicians about their musical careers before going back in time

Gareth:

to find out how it all began for them.

Gareth:

I hope you're doing well and having a brilliant week.

Gareth:

What are you working on?

Gareth:

Come and join in the discussions in the Music Room Facebook a

Gareth:

friendly bunch and it's a lovely supportive atmosphere in there.

Gareth:

Like a musical comfort blanket or something.

Gareth:

The link along with all the other links is in the show notes.

Gareth:

In this episode, I'll be chatting with composer Sherry

Gareth:

Chung, an LA based composer who has a real variety of credits.

Gareth:

We chatted about all sorts, from attending San Diego Comic Con,

Gareth:

her recent series, Gremlin Secrets of the Mogwai, and much more.

Gareth:

And hang around, because Sherry leaves a brilliant item and

Gareth:

some very to the point advice.

Gareth:

I'll let you find that out for yourself.

Gareth:

But before that, music stories.

Gareth:

So first up, a little bit of news about me.

Gareth:

I have a new EP out, it's called And Breathe.

Gareth:

And it's for piano and strings, and it's out on most digital download

Gareth:

stores slash streaming platforms.

Gareth:

After writing for a kid's animated series for a year, it felt quite cathartic

Gareth:

to write without brief once again, and just create for the joy of it.

Gareth:

I recommend it, actually, if you haven't done that for a while.

Gareth:

Next up, every Monday morning, I ask the lovely Music Room Community group

Gareth:

on Facebook, what's new with them?

Gareth:

So last Monday, let's see.

Gareth:

Mike, bought myself a mandolin and a banjo, so we'll be having some

Gareth:

fun with those on upcoming tracks.

Gareth:

Nice.

Gareth:

Rod, new single out today.

Gareth:

Rod referring there to his band Too Much Perspective and the single South

Gareth:

Coast Highway, which is a fun listen.

Gareth:

Some Beach Boys esque summery goodness in there.

Gareth:

Broly, have to score six episodes in ten days.

Gareth:

It happens that way sometimes, doesn't it?

Gareth:

Good luck, Broly.

Gareth:

Helen, I'm working my final day in music publishing before going

Gareth:

back to full time composing.

Gareth:

Uh, do I have a clapping effect?

Gareth:

Big day.

Gareth:

That's brilliant news.

Gareth:

Good luck with the composing, Helen.

Gareth:

David says, Just about to embark on what I sincerely hope will be the

Gareth:

final intense week on this damn album.

Gareth:

And then next week I'll get to hang with our wonderful Janet Overfield as a reward.

Gareth:

A lovely day at the coast.

Gareth:

That's lovely, isn't it?

Gareth:

Music roomers hanging out together.

Gareth:

Miriam, an album that's been in the works for nearly three years is finally

Gareth:

being released this week, or next.

Gareth:

It's my first album recorded with live strings, about that.

Gareth:

Another round of applause.

Gareth:

Great stuff, Miriam.

Gareth:

Marco, starting today, adding keyboard parts to my guitarist

Gareth:

mate Fabio's new album, 13 Tunes.

Gareth:

It is going to be good fun.

Gareth:

No doubt.

Gareth:

Good luck with that, Marco.

Gareth:

And finally, Dan.

Gareth:

Today has been all about artwork for future releases.

Gareth:

I loved doing the arty bit.

Gareth:

Even played with AI to generate some elements, which was fun.

Gareth:

Little known fact, isn't it?

Gareth:

Lots of artists and composers also do everything else.

Gareth:

They're the producer.

Gareth:

They're the master.

Gareth:

They're the cover art designers.

Gareth:

They are the marketers.

Gareth:

So...

Gareth:

Good luck with that, Dan.

Gareth:

And thank you, Music Roomers.

Gareth:

You are the best.

Gareth:

I hope your week is going wonderfully well.

Gareth:

Award winning composer Sherry Chung is a composer for film and television.

Gareth:

Her music transcends genre and fuses inspirations both traditional

Gareth:

and emerging in support of filmmakers visions worldwide.

Gareth:

Sherry currently composes the scores for Kung Fu for CW, HBO Max Amblin's

Gareth:

upcoming animated series Gremlins Secrets of the Mogwai, and most recently

Gareth:

the upcoming Netflix feature film Happiness for Beginners and NBC's Found.

Gareth:

airing this autumn.

Gareth:

Frequently recognised for her other television credits including the CW

Gareth:

network series Batwoman and Riverdale, NBC's Blindspot and Ava DuVernay's

Gareth:

limited series The Red Line, She's also scored numerous feature films,

Gareth:

documentaries, and commercials.

Gareth:

Recent film credits include Warner Brothers Studios, Nancy Drew, and The

Gareth:

Hidden Staircase, and The Lost Husband.

Gareth:

The Latter garnered her a Society of Composers and Lyricist nomination for

Gareth:

best score for an independent studio film.

Gareth:

An active member of the film music industry.

Gareth:

Sherry also serves as a Governor of the Music Branch of the Television Academy.

Gareth:

Got all that?

Gareth:

Let's catch up with Sherry to find out more.

Gareth:

Sherry Chung, composer.

Gareth:

Welcome to the music room.

Sherri:

Thank you so much, Gareth.

Sherri:

It's awesome to be here.

Gareth:

You're in LA and we managed the time difference somehow.

Gareth:

How are you today?

Gareth:

How is LA today?

Sherri:

I'm very well.

Sherri:

The weather is fantastic.

Sherri:

It's wonderful.

Sherri:

It's not too hot.

Sherri:

It's not too anything.

Sherri:

Uh, we've had a little bit of overcast lap yesterday.

Sherri:

So we're all kind of Ready to stick with summertime, but

Sherri:

it's, uh, I'm doing very well.

Sherri:

Thank

Gareth:

Uh, good.

Gareth:

Have you just been to San Diego comic con?

Gareth:

Did I see that on your socials?

Sherri:

Yes, I did a couple of panels there.

Sherri:

I forget the names of them, but one of them, we had a bunch of

Gareth:

tell you if you like.

Sherri:

Oh, amazing.

Sherri:

Let's let's remind my

Gareth:

Well, one of them, um, the fan favorites behind the scenes

Gareth:

of popular film and TV shows.

Gareth:

Was that one?

Sherri:

that was one.

Sherri:

Yes.

Sherri:

That sounds familiar.

Sherri:

It was another one.

Sherri:

I forget.

Gareth:

Yeah.

Gareth:

I don't know that.

Sherri:

Yes.

Sherri:

No, I, I was, I believe that one was, uh, a number of different crafts.

Sherri:

So I was the only composer, but there were some V F X people, some sound,

Sherri:

you know, just like sound effects.

Sherri:

Uh, there was a, um, a costume designer and then there was a, I don't think they

Sherri:

like to be called dub mixers, but, sound mixers, I think is how is the proper way

Sherri:

in any case, but yeah So that that was a that was a great one and they really

Sherri:

great shows and just it's kind of nice to be on a panel With other crafts other

Sherri:

professions good way to just kind of riff off each other I'm like, oh, I never

Sherri:

I never knew that that was the process in in that show or the process of you

Sherri:

know the costume designers that kind of thing and then the other panel was was

Sherri:

composers of various Shows and films.

Sherri:

So that, that was also very fun.

Sherri:

And they were, they were great turnouts, you know, especially given, you know, that

Sherri:

there was not a studio representation, there was not a actor or celebrity

Sherri:

representation that the turnout for the fans was actually still quite good.

Gareth:

Yeah, in my experience, I don't tend to, mix a lot with

Gareth:

other people on productions.

Gareth:

Uh, it tends to be the composer's way, doesn't it?

Gareth:

You're, you spend a lot of time in isolation doing what you do.

Gareth:

So that must be nice to be on stage with other people from

Gareth:

other parts of the production.

Gareth:

it makes you realize what a jigsaw is a production.

Gareth:

Doesn't it?

Sherri:

It's, it's, yeah, it's a pretty remarkable thing.

Sherri:

I mean, it's, I, I've been thinking about this.

Sherri:

I'm like, You know, there's for me, there's like a couple of

Sherri:

wonders of like, you know, life.

Sherri:

One of them is like our, our postal system.

Sherri:

How the heck does that work?

Sherri:

I'm like, wow, how does that work?

Sherri:

And then, and then honestly, just making the making of what I would

Sherri:

consider a successful television show or a movie like so many components

Sherri:

have to be just to get it made.

Sherri:

Sure.

Sherri:

But to make it good to make it something that audiences really enjoy

Sherri:

or to make it something that float, you know, rises to the top, you know,

Sherri:

is, and it's just, it's remarkable.

Sherri:

Everything kind of has to be flawless.

Sherri:

And it's, and so it is kind of nice to talk about that with

Sherri:

other, the other professions and the other crafts on the project.

Gareth:

The last couple of years I've been, well, I like to call,

Gareth:

um, in fact, what I've been credited as a stunt performer on a drama.

Gareth:

It's totally, totally not the right term, but, um, I was hired to,

Gareth:

play the piano for the lead actor, you know, in, in certain shots.

Gareth:

So, you know, capture my hands.

Gareth:

and do that.

Gareth:

And just standing there on set, and just watching these 40 people in on the set,

Gareth:

all doing just waiting for the setup and to sit down and get on with it.

Gareth:

And everyone's there to do one thing.

Gareth:

You know, it's just super focused and never fails to, amaze me.

Sherri:

And they sit around waiting and waiting and waiting to do that one thing.

Sherri:

And it's like, it's.

Sherri:

It's some of the most boring.

Sherri:

I mean, I've also, I've also been on just a couple of sets before,

Sherri:

and it's, it's really remarkable how relatively not exciting it seems to be.

Sherri:

Granted, I haven't really, you know, even when I've been a participant, I'm

Sherri:

like, oh my gosh, this is, no wonder everybody brings a book, or they're,

Sherri:

you know, on their phones or something, because you're just sitting there waiting

Gareth:

Yeah.

Sherri:

for a long time, you

Gareth:

They're hired for one thing and one thing only, and that's how it works.

Gareth:

Amazing.

Gareth:

Um, anyway, I mentioned.

Gareth:

Gremlins in your introduction.

Gareth:

What differences have you found in writing for animation to writing for live action?

Sherri:

So I have Gremlins.

Sherri:

Is my only, animation to date.

Sherri:

I, I, when I was in grad school, I did a lot of sort of experimental animation.

Sherri:

That was hugely fun.

Sherri:

Um, but this is obviously a very different kind of animation.

Sherri:

So in my one experience, I would say that the, the style of music

Sherri:

I'm getting, you know, I was getting to do was totally different.

Sherri:

I mean, it was orchestral, which not all animation music necessarily is.

Sherri:

But in this case, it was fully orchestral.

Sherri:

But yeah, I, I found that there's a lot of there's a lot of similarities like

Sherri:

like sometimes like the ask of music the the the need for music like like

Sherri:

the job the function of music can often be the same but in animation i have

Sherri:

found that oftentimes like hey we need this to kind of complete the circuit

Sherri:

of the storytelling so it's like you know there's not a lot of walla in the

Sherri:

background there's not a lot of so it's like hey we're gonna want some of that

Sherri:

or you know we're gonna want some of that music to Help sell this or help

Sherri:

tell the story in, not a new way, but I mean, I, I hate to repeat myself,

Sherri:

but kind of like in a way that again, it's kind of completing the circuit

Sherri:

and it's, um, there seems to be a lot more, um, you know, packed in there

Sherri:

in terms of like the function, you know, a lot of times I feel like with

Sherri:

live action, you know, especially if there, there's comedy and there's this

Sherri:

and there's that, and it's like, you know, that you, you, there's so much

Sherri:

facial expression that happens on an actor or an actress in live action.

Sherri:

And there's so much more.

Sherri:

There can be so much background, you know, it can be so much more

Sherri:

visually, um, busy, I guess.

Sherri:

And so sometimes it's like, Hey, stay outta the way the

Sherri:

actors were taking care of it.

Sherri:

Stay outta the way.

Sherri:

You can just really hang back, um, You really just need you

Sherri:

when there's like a fight scene.

Sherri:

You know, kind of thing.

Sherri:

Um, but with, you know, with animation especially, let's say in the first

Sherri:

episode of Gremlins, um, you know, there's this whole, basically we're

Sherri:

figuring out how Gizmo got from his, you know, Valley of Jade paradise to

Sherri:

this harsh, you know, terrible human world out in the, in the big bad.

Sherri:

You know, and it's, and it's, it's from a bird.

Sherri:

This hawk comes down and just like, and it just scoops, but in order to create

Sherri:

the mayhem, it's like the music had to do a lot more, to kind of show the terror

Sherri:

and the, you know, the adventure of him flying on this bird, I mean, there's, in

Sherri:

some cases, there's a lot more suspension of disbelief, um, that I have found in,

Sherri:

in animation, and there's a lot more turning on a dime, you know, it doesn't

Sherri:

have to be that way, and again, not all animation is like this, but my experience

Sherri:

on this one was, some things I played through, and sometimes I was like, oh,

Sherri:

we really need to really do a sharp turn here, and that doesn't, I, I don't, I

Sherri:

feel like when that happens in, and so that might have been really helpful.

Sherri:

Live action that can turn out to be a little cheesy, you know, unless that's

Sherri:

like the way it's trying to go It's trying to be sort of a bit more campy.

Sherri:

But in general, yeah I that that's not really asked of me or if the music, you

Sherri:

know, you know in a live action setting.

Gareth:

My, um, one big direction for the last animated series I did was

Gareth:

highlight the wonk, you know, it's leaning into those moments and just

Gareth:

like you say, it's propping it up, supporting it in any way you can really.

Sherri:

Yeah, and it's also something interesting about it to that at least

Sherri:

my experience on this one is that the creators and showrunners were so So

Sherri:

excited for anything that for any of my ideas and and I think we're just really

Sherri:

open to to all of that and I think that's kind of a newer experience, but I think

Sherri:

there's also a reason for that because they know what they're making They're

Sherri:

making this fictitious species, you know in a legendary, you know franchise kind

Sherri:

of thing and there's a I just feel like kind of anything goes, you know, I mean

Sherri:

within within certain parameters Once we had established those parameters anything

Sherri:

kind of goes in that world and I feel like in live action You know a lot of

Sherri:

times the notes that I get are just like we don't really want to manipulate the

Sherri:

audience the audience signed up to be taken on a journey to be manipulated.

Sherri:

There's this sort of unspoken agreement that I think an audience has when they

Sherri:

go and they start a show or sit down on their couch or go to a theater.

Sherri:

They're like, lie to me.

Sherri:

I want to be I want to be lied to.

Sherri:

I want to be manipulated, you know, and I know I mean that in a genuine way,

Sherri:

not a, not a, you know, negative way.

Sherri:

So I've never, I've never experienced that in the, in the three years

Sherri:

that I worked on the show, I never experienced that on Gremlins.

Sherri:

And no one says, well, we don't really want to push the audience too far.

Sherri:

And like, what?

Sherri:

They're like, no, go for it.

Sherri:

It needs to be scarier.

Sherri:

It needs to be funnier.

Sherri:

It needs to be bigger and more adventurous.

Sherri:

And so it's, uh, yeah, it's interesting.

Sherri:

Absolutely.

Gareth:

though, isn't it to, to have a production who want to hear your ideas,

Gareth:

who are open to it and to actually.

Gareth:

Let you do your job.

Gareth:

You know, you've been hired to do a certain thing.

Gareth:

So, um, that's really nice to hear.

Gareth:

Really nice to hear.

Gareth:

Okay, well, we're up to date.

Gareth:

Are you ready to go back in time?

Sherri:

Yes, let's go back in time.

Gareth:

I wonder what a Mogwai going back in time would sound like.

Sherri:

Lots of high pitched screaming.

Sherri:

And

Gareth:

Yeah.

Gareth:

okay.

Gareth:

Here we are back in time.

Gareth:

Now I know you studied music composition and theory at Jacksonville university in

Gareth:

Florida, but I'd like to go back further to your first experiences of music.

Gareth:

What can you remember of first experiencing music?

Sherri:

I was, I don't remember like the exact age that I like first

Sherri:

started, you know, feeling all the feels about music, but I remember

Sherri:

that age five, four or five, I was convinced that I wanted piano lessons.

Sherri:

And we did have, We did have a little, you know, a little upright piano in our house

Sherri:

and my mom played a bit, you know, she was not, um, you know, did not boast herself

Sherri:

to be a pianist or anything, but she could certainly play the chords and get by.

Sherri:

And I did grow up in the, you know, with a lot of church in my, in my life.

Sherri:

So there was a lot of going to church and hearing music in that way.

Sherri:

But I, I wouldn't say that my parents were musicians.

Sherri:

I don't have one of those stories.

Sherri:

Oh yeah, I grew up around music and all that kind of thing.

Sherri:

But I, I did in, in the, in church, but I remember I.

Sherri:

I just, I wanted to play the piano.

Sherri:

I'm like, I want to figure this thing out.

Sherri:

I just feel like that's, that's the thing for me.

Sherri:

And so I, I asked them for lessons, I think around four and I think my mom

Sherri:

was, you know, I think a lot of parents are like, Oh, that's nice, honey.

Sherri:

You know, like, well, we'll talk about that, you know, because, because they

Sherri:

always think I'm going to dump all this money into this kid who says

Sherri:

that they want to be a ballerina.

Sherri:

And then, you know, thousands of dollars later, they're like,

Sherri:

man, I don't want to do that.

Sherri:

You know, but I kept asking, I kept asking.

Sherri:

She's like, okay, well, let's do it.

Sherri:

And so I.

Sherri:

I think there was a, there was a piano, there was a music teacher in my elementary

Sherri:

school was like, well, yeah, let's, I'll show her a few things and see.

Sherri:

And, you know, we took up a little book, some of the things, and she's

Sherri:

like, oh, you really want to do this.

Sherri:

And so it turns out I was good at it.

Sherri:

And I, I say that I'm not jumping ahead in time, but I do want to say this

Sherri:

just so that your listeners don't think that I'm some sort of arrogant person.

Sherri:

I was very talented for my age.

Sherri:

And then my age caught up with my talent . So I, you know what I'm saying?

Sherri:

I was by no means a prodigy, but I was very talented and I was, I was

Sherri:

progressing very fast and it was like, oh wow, she's really good.

Sherri:

And, and, and like I said, and then probably in about high school-ish

Sherri:

college, it was like, yeah, my talent had caught up with, sorry, my age,

Sherri:

had caught up with my talent and I was not, Especially getting to college.

Sherri:

I was not at all the most impressive thing.

Sherri:

And that wasn't my major.

Sherri:

That wasn't my calling in any case, but all this to say, I was doing very well.

Sherri:

Bless my parents hearts.

Sherri:

They did not ask me to stop practicing at six in the morning.

Sherri:

Cause I, that's what I would get up and go play my little.

Sherri:

And, um, and then, and then shortly after that, it turned into very

Sherri:

much into classical training because like that, because that had the most

Sherri:

technique and that, that kind of thing.

Sherri:

So, so that, and, and then of course the, you know, the great thing

Sherri:

about church, I guess, is that you get your, you get an opportunity

Sherri:

to, to share your gifts, you know?

Sherri:

So, and then in talent shows, we did those and things in school.

Sherri:

Um, and so the, lessons became more and more serious as each

Sherri:

piano teacher was like, okay, cool.

Sherri:

Well, I have taken her as long, as far as I can go, she should really go to

Sherri:

this person or that person or something.

Sherri:

But that was, that was like my, those are my first kind of kind of beginnings of,

Sherri:

of music and, and I was one of those kids that wanted to do piano and wanted to.

Sherri:

Do that and learn that and study that and so my parents were

Sherri:

able to make that happen for me.

Sherri:

I

Gareth:

Fantastic.

Gareth:

You mentioned, Church and piano lessons.

Gareth:

And I assume that they all kind of ran parallel.

Gareth:

You're, you're performing things in church groups.

Gareth:

You're, learning the piano.

Gareth:

You're going through the grades.

Gareth:

Doing your scales and practicing.

Gareth:

Were you good at practicing?

Gareth:

I have a lot of guests who say they hated practice and they'll practice

Gareth:

20 minutes before the lessons.

Gareth:

And

Sherri:

loved it.

Sherri:

I was super serious about it.

Sherri:

I was one of those.

Sherri:

I just, I loved it.

Sherri:

I wanted to play all the time.

Sherri:

I want, I mean, there were definitely things that I found difficult,

Sherri:

you know, at the very beginning.

Sherri:

It's like reading, you know, reading music, getting faster at sight reading.

Sherri:

I was actually never quite very fast sight reading and that was frustrating

Sherri:

because I, you know, but the playing and the studying, the practicing

Sherri:

a hundred percent, that was me.

Sherri:

I thought for a while that I wanted to be a classical.

Sherri:

And then I had a really bad experience performing one time and I just

Sherri:

blanked and I could never get it back and it threw me for a loop.

Sherri:

But I think more than that or sort of parallel to that was I realized I

Sherri:

liked performing but not classically.

Sherri:

I loved the classical training because I loved the technique of it.

Sherri:

But I was also, you know, getting more into the creative

Sherri:

side, like I was also singing.

Sherri:

I hesitate to call myself a singer, but I do sing.

Sherri:

And so, and I had also sang in all the choirs and even in school choruses.

Sherri:

Um, but I realized, because I also accompanied.

Sherri:

for a lot of people.

Sherri:

Even in seventh grade, I was starting to accompany the school

Sherri:

choirs and I found that way more exciting than the actual performing

Sherri:

because it was a performance, right?

Sherri:

Because you're, you were performing with the, with the groups, you know, but it

Sherri:

was like a different kind of spotlight.

Sherri:

It was a different kind of spotlight.

Sherri:

And I kind of, I enjoyed that much better.

Sherri:

There's also kind of more pop music.

Sherri:

It was, you know, like whatever, whatever your, your school

Sherri:

choirs are going to sing.

Sherri:

It's not, it's not, you know, Bach and Mozart.

Sherri:

And I, and I love those as well, but it was, you know,

Sherri:

it was a little more exciting.

Sherri:

And then, and then around that same time, I would just start singing and

Sherri:

using my voice as another instrument.

Sherri:

I, I would write some lyrics and write some songs, but I.

Sherri:

And it's honestly, it's a tool that I use now in my writing where I'm like, I've got

Sherri:

a whole rhythm section in my left hand, you know, I've got a whole rhythm section

Sherri:

and in my right hand now can be, now can be chord, can be chordal and it, or it can

Sherri:

be, you know, adding to the whole rhythm.

Sherri:

And then my voice could be a separate instrument entirely, even if it's not

Sherri:

a song that I'm writing, even if it's just creating because I'm trying to

Sherri:

do, you know, something orchestral or something instrumental only.

Sherri:

So it's like I use.

Sherri:

You know, I haven't quite figured out how to get my foot in the, in the, in

Sherri:

the, or the elbows, but I definitely am using voice to do a lot of this.

Sherri:

So, um, but, so that, that was kind of for me, uh, in my mind, more of a

Sherri:

transition of how I'm like, I don't think this classical thing is for me.

Sherri:

And I think, you know, I think it's more just, but, but yeah,

Sherri:

I got, super creative about it.

Sherri:

And I, I, I kind of went more towards that.

Sherri:

So,

Gareth:

Nice.

Gareth:

So going back to that for a second, you've to this day, if you're

Gareth:

figuring something out for, uh, an orchestra will kind of designate a

Gareth:

hand for rhythm designate and for

Sherri:

yeah,

Gareth:

cool.

Gareth:

That's a very interesting technique.

Sherri:

It's, it's interesting and I, and I have to say, I will share with the

Sherri:

listeners too that obviously can read music and I grew up reading music and

Sherri:

I do read and this is the great thing about being a pianist is you learn both

Sherri:

clefts, you know, where a lot of people just learn the one, I mean, there's

Sherri:

actually, as we know, more clefts than just treble and bass, but I was learning

Sherri:

those clefts simultaneously and then I, because I did go to school for composition

Sherri:

and theory, and even long before that, I was nerding out, I was taking all the

Sherri:

theory classes, and I went to all the music camps, and the band camps, and

Sherri:

the church band camps, and, you know, taking, conducting, and all of those

Sherri:

things, and score reading, so I was learning all that before I got to college.

Sherri:

But even in college, you know, and, and, and back then I had to be pencil and

Sherri:

paper because the school that I was going to at the time was just getting into the

Sherri:

notation software programs and logic.

Sherri:

We were just getting into it.

Sherri:

It weren't quite advanced.

Sherri:

I was part of like the, you know, the, the legacy program, you know, where

Sherri:

you're, you're starting all those things the first time or had I gone to.

Sherri:

Some of the other schools that I'd gotten into, like Berkeley and Boston,

Sherri:

which I did get into, I was like, Oh, I couldn't go because of finances, but

Sherri:

they were already well on top of that.

Sherri:

So I, the reason I'm saying this is because I was so

Sherri:

slow with pencil and paper.

Sherri:

I was so slow with it because I was like, you know, it's like learning

Sherri:

how to write while learning.

Sherri:

My brain was working faster than what I could notate.

Sherri:

And I found that very frustrating.

Sherri:

And so I was like, screw it.

Sherri:

I'm going to just, I'm just going to memorize it, you know, I'm going to

Sherri:

make my own little notation chicken scratch, um, or get one of those

Sherri:

little digital recorders and just record it with my voice over it.

Sherri:

And then I would play the recording back and sing and play on top of that

Sherri:

and try to get like another recorder to kind of, you know, I mean, so it was,

Sherri:

but my, my point is, is like, I think I used it all as a tool because I found

Sherri:

my current, abilities and what was it?

Sherri:

And availabilities of notating my ideas or representing my ideas

Sherri:

to be incredibly frustrating.

Sherri:

And I couldn't, I couldn't keep all my ideas in my head because I'm writing

Sherri:

for a larger group or an orchestra or I'm trying to at the time, you know,

Sherri:

and it was just, you know, so finally when the technology that was available

Sherri:

to me really caught up in my abilities.

Sherri:

I was like, Oh, this is great.

Sherri:

But I still use it as a, again, I read music, but I still use my ear and my hands

Sherri:

and my voice to just to write in layers.

Sherri:

Um, it's very interesting.

Gareth:

I wonder how many people in the composer community would agree that,

Gareth:

you know, having a door for instance, where you can just open a new session,

Gareth:

new track, bang, record, rather than sit there with a pencil and paper.

Gareth:

Um, I know I prefer to just play, you know, work it out that way.

Sherri:

Yeah.

Gareth:

think about it, maybe play for a while and then just hit record.

Gareth:

Hmm.

Sherri:

Oh, that's, that's what I, you know what, I don't know how

Sherri:

many of your listeners use Logic, but what I, what I discovered about

Sherri:

Logic, yep, was the Capture Record.

Sherri:

That blew my mind.

Sherri:

That changed everything for me because I'm not.

Sherri:

My performances are different.

Sherri:

My performance because I, I don't perform as much anymore, but in terms

Sherri:

of band or singer songwriter stuff, it's a different kind of performance.

Sherri:

I am not a recording musician.

Sherri:

You know, when that red light goes on, I freak out, but the real studio musicians,

Sherri:

when that red light goes on, they slay, you know, like they, they're like, yes,

Sherri:

this is my thing, but I'm not that person.

Sherri:

So when I discovered that I could play something in Logic, and now with the

Sherri:

newer version, you don't even have to it doesn't even have to be playing.

Sherri:

The cursor doesn't even have to be moving.

Sherri:

You could just play something, capture, record, and it just captured

Sherri:

everything you just did for like, even because you were noodling around.

Sherri:

So sometimes I do just play it, and I'm just like, noodle, noodle,

Sherri:

noodle, and I'm like, ugh, this is all crap, it's all crap.

Sherri:

Hey, there was a little nugget there in something.

Sherri:

Okay, we'll get it, we'll get it.

Sherri:

Capture, record, but that way the pressure...

Sherri:

of the red light, you know, the pressure of like, that's, it's all gone.

Sherri:

So anyway, that just blew my mind.

Sherri:

So if any of your listeners are like that, where it's like, you

Sherri:

just want to play, capture record.

Gareth:

I discovered, well, someone mentioned that.

Gareth:

In fact, it was Tristan Noon.

Gareth:

If you're listening to this, Tristan is an orchestrator in the London studios.

Gareth:

and he said about it and I had exactly the same reaction of

Gareth:

where's this been all my life and just in the last six months or so.

Gareth:

Um, so yeah, couldn't agree more.

Gareth:

It's a fantastic tool.

Sherri:

I'm very excited for you.

Sherri:

If you've just discovered it, I'm very excited for you.

Sherri:

And all your listeners out there, like seriously, guys, the best thing ever.

Gareth:

yes.

Gareth:

Yeah.

Gareth:

Yeah.

Gareth:

Well, it's something that I started using the moment I . heard about it and I've

Gareth:

not stopped using it since, you know, it's just, how else would you record now?

Gareth:

There we go.

Gareth:

And there's your, there's your piece of advice, right?

Sherri:

my item.

Sherri:

You're welcome.

Gareth:

Well, hopefully we'll get a bonus piece of advice as well.

Gareth:

Um, you mentioned in your teenage years, your age caught up with your

Gareth:

talent, and you were getting into choirs and bands and things like this.

Gareth:

Were there any influential people like teachers or anyone who

Gareth:

were encouraging you to do this?

Gareth:

Or was it just, your own, uh, self driving as you've done since you were four or

Gareth:

five, that you just sought this stuff out?

Gareth:

How did that go?

Sherri:

Yeah, I mean, I will admit to your point that there's a lot of

Sherri:

my, there's a lot of just who I am.

Sherri:

It's very self driven, you know, and I don't see that in a way

Sherri:

of like, here's how good I am.

Sherri:

I say that like, oh, thank, thank goodness.

Sherri:

I got that trait.

Sherri:

You know, like, like really, because I don't work for that.

Sherri:

That's just like, that engine is just going.

Sherri:

I mean, sometimes it's like, it's time to, it's time to call it off.

Sherri:

Meditation has been very helpful for me these days.

Sherri:

But I definitely had some people who were, who were encouraging and,

Sherri:

there was, it was actually, it was actually part of the church, but it

Sherri:

was part of like the larger sort of regional church thing, if you will.

Sherri:

I, I was involved in a lot of those, those sort of, these.

Sherri:

You know, smaller churchy things.

Sherri:

But then there were like these bigger church camps and they were all music.

Sherri:

And, there was one guy in particular, one director, if you will, not,

Sherri:

not a picture director, but just like a music director in general.

Sherri:

That was just, I felt like he could kept, see, he kept

Sherri:

seeing what I was trying to do.

Sherri:

He kept, again, I, I used the word very, very humbly, but

Sherri:

he kept seeing the talent.

Sherri:

He kept seeing the drive, and he was like, you should really

Sherri:

consider taking this course, like taking this conducting course.

Sherri:

You should really consider taking this.

Sherri:

And, and, you know, and it was always like, Really?

Sherri:

I mean, I don't really think I'm like a leader in that kind of way.

Sherri:

He even said, I think you'd be really great at leading the kitty chorus, the

Sherri:

little girls chorus, you know, something this, this week at, at band camp.

Sherri:

Well, I don't know about that.

Sherri:

I don't even like kids, you know?

Sherri:

So, I mean, it was one of those things where.

Sherri:

You know, it was just like, yeah, it just, it takes somebody with that

Sherri:

bird's eye view to say, I know you don't think that, but you're equipped.

Sherri:

You're ready to learn that.

Sherri:

So I would say that he was very, very pivotal in getting me more involved in

Sherri:

not just music, but music professions and music crafts, leading a chorus,

Sherri:

a choir, conducting a band or an orchestra, um, being a leader of

Sherri:

any way, in any way, shape, or form.

Sherri:

And honestly, that was, I realize now.

Sherri:

You know, and you know, because you do this as well.

Sherri:

And if any of your listeners in this industry, in this film

Sherri:

music industry, it's so much more than just writing the music.

Sherri:

There is a leadership aspect.

Sherri:

There is a, you know, like, you gotta drive this train.

Sherri:

Like, this, this plane needs flying.

Sherri:

And, and there needs to be somebody who is, even if I'm wrong, you

Sherri:

gotta be confident about it.

Sherri:

So, so it was interesting to me that it was, after that point, it

Sherri:

wasn't necessarily about the music that I was creating or the music

Sherri:

that I was, Playing or learning, but it was about, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sherri:

Now that you know how to read, now that you can play, what

Sherri:

are we gonna do with that?

Sherri:

And then, and something beyond just playing in a group, which is, which

Sherri:

by the way, I think I'm so glad that I got group playing as well, because

Sherri:

as we know, it's so much about it.

Sherri:

We're working together, working as a team, and there's something

Sherri:

incredible about making music, live music with other musicians.

Sherri:

It's, it's

Gareth:

For sure.

Gareth:

Yes.

Gareth:

A previous guest of mine, Segun Akinola, he described it as

Gareth:

being the head of a department.

Gareth:

You know, you, you're not just hired as the composer, you're hired

Gareth:

as the person who organizes the music, not just the notes, but you

Gareth:

know, the whole thing, isn't it?

Gareth:

You have your team around you.

Gareth:

So, um, yeah, I thought that was a, a very good way of, describing it.

Gareth:

So Sherry.

Gareth:

I ask all of my guests to leave an item and a piece of advice in

Gareth:

the music room for others to find.

Gareth:

What item, and I don't know anything about this by the way, so I'm really intrigued.

Gareth:

What item would you like to leave?

Sherri:

There's a book.

Sherri:

It's probably very outdated, and I think it's exactly a reason that it should be.

Sherri:

Read and explored and cover to cover called on the track

Gareth:

Ooh.

Sherri:

by Fred Carlin

Gareth:

Okay.

Sherri:

So I read this book When I was in Florida trying to figure out how the hell

Sherri:

to get myself to Los Angeles How the heck I was gonna learn the things I felt so

Sherri:

far removed like Jacksonville, Florida.

Sherri:

What is that even right?

Sherri:

How so far removed I didn't know the things I had graduated my I did my

Sherri:

I done my undergrad in composition theory and I was looking online

Sherri:

for I want to go to grad school.

Sherri:

I want to I want how do I do this?

Sherri:

And I came upon all this, like, reading literature and the things you can, like,

Sherri:

workshops you might be able to apply for.

Sherri:

And this is back in 2000, like, one or two or three or something like that.

Sherri:

I don't know.

Sherri:

It's one of those years.

Sherri:

And I came upon this book and it was, and somebody said,

Sherri:

you should read On the Track.

Sherri:

And it's complete with pictures and people and, photocopies of

Sherri:

old click track, like old click.

Sherri:

Track, like the book, like the click book, like, you know, before we were

Sherri:

generating click through our computers and I mean, it wasn't as, I think

Sherri:

it was, it was a tiny bit dated at only a tiny bit dated back then.

Sherri:

So now how many ever years later, it's going to be incredibly outdated.

Sherri:

And I think it's really important for people, composers getting into this

Sherri:

industry to learn from, because you're learning your history and you're learning

Sherri:

the foundation and you're learning all the things that come before you.

Sherri:

And I don't just mean like all the battles that were fought and won on your behalf.

Sherri:

So you could have these.

Sherri:

Which I do think there's some of that in there, but I think that there's

Sherri:

something important about learning the craft because I feel like I'm a composer

Sherri:

first then I'm a film composer film and TV composer because I feel like that is

Sherri:

a completely separate craft entirely.

Sherri:

And people who are amazing at writing concert music are not necessarily going

Sherri:

to be able to work within the parameters of what film and television composing

Sherri:

is deadlines, budget constraints.

Sherri:

Um.

Sherri:

Assholes.

Sherri:

You know what I'm saying?

Sherri:

You know, and, and, and, getting notes in the last minute.

Sherri:

Somebody saying, I don't like that.

Sherri:

I just don't like it.

Sherri:

Do you have any specific notes about what you don't like?

Sherri:

No, I just, I just, I don't, I don't like it.

Sherri:

Or saying, hey, I really want it to sound like that composer or that score.

Sherri:

There's all kinds of things that...

Sherri:

Have nothing to do with the writing of music.

Sherri:

And I feel like, in this book, it's focusing on that.

Sherri:

It's focusing on the actual craft of, of not just the, of the logistics.

Sherri:

The logistics of writing in our field and, and dealing with things.

Sherri:

And I just, I just think it's good to know.

Sherri:

I think it's really good.

Sherri:

And I think the more you know, the better it makes you, you know, just

Sherri:

in terms of a leader, in terms of the, of that head of department.

Sherri:

So on the track.

Sherri:

And there's some other people credited in there as well.

Sherri:

And you get lots of great quotes and, and some throwback pictures and photos

Sherri:

and everything, but that, that, and that book excited me because I have, again,

Sherri:

I'm sitting there in Jacksonville, Florida in, in middle of, you know, the,

Sherri:

the, the furthest place that I can think of maybe from, from, from being out

Sherri:

here and not just geography wise, but just mindset, how will I ever do that?

Sherri:

And, and that, but that book gave me a lot of.

Sherri:

and, and hope.

Sherri:

Just if anything is it made me feel like, Oh, I'm, I'm like a

Sherri:

part of this because I'm learning about this and that's so cool.

Sherri:

Uh, so that, that would be the item that I am leaving.

Gareth:

That's fabulous.

Gareth:

I'm going to seek that out myself.

Gareth:

Actually, have a little look.

Gareth:

What advice would you like to leave in the music room?

Sherri:

I've got, I've got two and they're kind of the same thing.

Sherri:

They're really short.

Sherri:

They're little, little sound bites.

Gareth:

Okay.

Sherri:

I've always been told you're supposed to have a

Sherri:

couple of sound bites ready.

Sherri:

It's not as effective when you tell everybody that there's sound bites.

Sherri:

Um, one of them is do the work, don't be a jerk.

Sherri:

And it's, kind of like the same as the, my other one, which is show

Sherri:

up and shut up, you know, like, it's it's a difficult industry.

Sherri:

It's a difficult industry.

Sherri:

Do the work you're not being, you're not well.

Sherri:

And I, and I say this with respect.

Sherri:

So, so please understand for all your listeners, I'm just talking about my

Sherri:

experience in the industry, which has been, you know, it's runs the gamut, but

Sherri:

it's been largely very, very positive that most of the time you're not being.

Sherri:

Put down not being put down in the way that you think you are It's not

Sherri:

because of how you identify or because you're maybe because maybe your

Sherri:

music isn't you know, he's wonderful.

Sherri:

It's amazing you shouldn't take it personally And by the way

Sherri:

in the events that you should say take something personally.

Sherri:

I think you'll know those as well You know, but in the grand scheme of

Sherri:

things, it's it should not you should not take it personally So just so do the

Sherri:

work do the work and don't be a jerk.

Sherri:

No one wants to be stuck in the trenches with an asshole.

Sherri:

You know what I'm saying?

Sherri:

The job is too hard.

Sherri:

And the job of your director or your producer or your showrunner is infinitely.

Sherri:

I shouldn't say more complex than our job.

Sherri:

And that's, I don't think that's accurate to say, but I, but I will say that their

Sherri:

job is incredibly complex and they're the heads of all the departments.

Sherri:

So it's like, if you can do your job, don't be a jerk.

Sherri:

And that goes for the people that work for you on your team.

Sherri:

Um, same thing as like showing up, which is just show up and, and, you

Sherri:

know, mouth closed, learn something, you know, ears open, learn something.

Sherri:

Um, you know, come from a place of curiosity.

Sherri:

Anyway, it's, it's very long winded, but it's all kind of like,

Gareth:

Well, no, I think they're very concise, actually, those

Gareth:

bits of advice and it's, you know, it's, I think it's related to time.

Gareth:

No one's got time to be, unpacking all these things.

Gareth:

It's get to the resolution and, and get it done, like you say.

Gareth:

There's another thing related to that, which is about notes.

Gareth:

Notes can be quite terrifying when you're new to the kind of process.

Gareth:

But actually notes are fabulous.

Gareth:

They get you there so much quicker.

Gareth:

If you, if you can just have a few notes back to say exactly what you want,

Gareth:

exactly what you mean, it's just really helpful around because ultimately you're

Gareth:

all working towards the same thing.

Sherri:

true, but, I mean, you're right.

Sherri:

Like, no, it is terrifying because we're not, because what we're

Sherri:

doing doesn't live on a shelf.

Sherri:

What we're doing is coming from here.

Sherri:

It's coming from our hearts.

Sherri:

It's coming from our experiences.

Sherri:

Sometimes it's just, you know, sometimes we're not always feeling it.

Sherri:

It doesn't have to be the greatest piece of music you've ever written.

Sherri:

It just has to work.

Sherri:

It doesn't have to be the best idea.

Sherri:

It's just got to be.

Sherri:

You know, it's got to be an idea that works, you know, and and but it's hard

Sherri:

because we're putting ourselves out there And and when somebody says that's

Sherri:

not working for me It's really I would say it's also some some type of advice

Sherri:

as well that try to separate The music from your self worth, you know, it's

Sherri:

like okay, the music doesn't work.

Sherri:

It doesn't mean You don't you're not working like you're not You're this isn't

Sherri:

you know, but there are times there are times where it's like, you know What I

Sherri:

think I think we're not on the same page and I think Maybe it is time to like part

Sherri:

ways, but again, that's not a reflection of your self worth You know, it's this

Sherri:

is it's a service industry and we are mixing art and commerce Art and business

Sherri:

and that's that's that is automatically, you know a match made in hell.

Sherri:

I mean

Gareth:

Yeah.

Gareth:

Creativity and, uh, yeah.

Gareth:

Capitalism.

Sherri:

Exactly.

Sherri:

It's, it's, you know, it's, it's difficult, but, but it is a service

Sherri:

industry and there's a lot at stake.

Sherri:

There's a lot of money at stake for, for, you know, even if we don't feel it.

Sherri:

There's a lot

Gareth:

it speaks to, you know, what you said about not taking it personally.

Gareth:

You know, more often than not, it's not the music doesn't work.

Gareth:

It just doesn't work for the scene.

Sherri:

yes.

Gareth:

so it's, it's not a reflection on your ability as a composer.

Gareth:

It's, just getting the scene, right.

Gareth:

Getting the tone of the scene, right.

Gareth:

Getting the pace of the scene, right.

Gareth:

Whatever it is.

Sherri:

It's, it's true.

Sherri:

And I, I agree with you that sometimes notes are especially, I, the notes

Sherri:

that I enjoy the most are the ones that I'm just like, it unlocks something

Sherri:

in a scene that I just didn't know was going to, was going to be a thing.

Sherri:

Like, you know, like, wow, that's, that's a great direction where I did not know

Sherri:

that it was going to be, I didn't, I didn't realize that was the scene that we

Sherri:

were, that was the underlying, underlying root of what we were trying to get at.

Sherri:

You know, it was just, um, so I think those are, I think notes are, are.

Sherri:

Kind of great.

Sherri:

I mean, I still hate them, but

Gareth:

Yeah.

Gareth:

And it's when people go, um, no, I don't think the scene is working.

Gareth:

Try it this way.

Gareth:

And you go.

Gareth:

Damn, they're right.

Sherri:

you know And it's equally upsetting when it's like they're so wrong.

Sherri:

They are so wrong Right my my way was the right time the first

Sherri:

time but but you know what?

Sherri:

I will say this sometimes the best best time is about to let it go You

Sherri:

know what if they thought that the scene was fire They thought something

Sherri:

was funny, and I thought it was more serious, and if they're hearing funny.

Sherri:

It's funny Just let it go.

Sherri:

It's funny.

Sherri:

You're not, you are never going to convince them, you know, you,

Sherri:

you can, I've had some success when I say, this is amazing.

Sherri:

Can I just, I just wanted to let you know my approach to let you know what

Sherri:

my thought process was that you can, you know, steer me in a better direction.

Sherri:

And there have been times where I've done that.

Sherri:

And they're like, Oh, Actually, now that you say that, that makes a lot of sense.

Sherri:

Let's hear that again.

Sherri:

Let's watch that again.

Sherri:

I totally agree with you.

Sherri:

Let's go with that.

Sherri:

And there's been times where we do that and they're like, I totally see your

Sherri:

point, but I still want to do this.

Sherri:

Great.

Sherri:

Thank you so much for hearing me, for listening to me.

Sherri:

Thank you for making this a conversation and not just like

Sherri:

a dictatorship kind of thing.

Sherri:

So those,

Gareth:

Yes, you're right.

Gareth:

And that's the best relationship, isn't it?

Gareth:

Where, uh, you know, both sides are open to ideas and change.

Gareth:

Yeah, very much.

Gareth:

Uh, you're listening to composers, therapy podcast.

Sherri:

so I think we do need that actually.

Gareth:

Yeah.

Gareth:

But there we go.

Gareth:

That comes full circle to, uh, do the work.

Gareth:

Don't be a jerk.

Gareth:

Definitely going in the music room.

Gareth:

Uh, Sherry, it has been enjoyed chatting with you.

Gareth:

Thank you for joining me in the music room.

Sherri:

Thank you so much, Gareth.

Sherri:

I really appreciate it.

Gareth:

Thanks for listening to the Music Room podcast today.

Gareth:

If you'd like to know more about the show or the community that surrounds

Gareth:

it, head to music room.community.

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