She is trained as a naturopathic doctor, family nurse practitioner, Reiki master and multidisciplinary yoga instructor. Combining over two decades of experience working in conventional and alternative medicine, she brings a truly holistic lens to well being, addressing the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of health.

How do we want to look at healing? We even, we even get into the semantics of what, what is this word healing and are some of us. stuck in this perpetual state of healing that brings with it its own set of limiting beliefs and blocks and barriers. And I just feel like this is such a phenomenal conversation to tune into to get this Larger bird's eye view on healing and some of the different facets that when we're too zoomed in and talking about all of these nitty gritty things, we're missing some of these bigger perceptions or patterns that we might also be caught in.

Matluck back on the podcast for a part two, but with that, please enjoy this conversation with Dr. Matluck.

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Yes, yes, this is what we need to be talking about. And with that said, I don't know a ton of your, your backstory, your personal story kind of into this work. So as much as you're comfortable, I would love to hear just a little bit of even what led you to where you are today. Absolutely. I mean, it's the answering this question is always so challenging for me because it's been a lifelong journey for me.

And being like a very sort of emotionally sensitive kid, that experience shaped a lot. I mean, it basically set me on a quest to explore how people in the world heal other ways of doing it, you know, outside of this sort of hospital experience that my mother. Went through and of course she passed so they the experience did what it didn't result in the outcome that I as As a child wanted and so it really got me thinking about are there other ways to heal at a very young age?

Yeah. Um, you know, so there was this deep knowing that there was something that we couldn't see, touch, feel, hear. That was very real for me at a very young age. Um, and then, you know, I went on to. I, I was, I was pretty young, but then when I went to college, I, I studied pre med, but I also, I majored in anthropology [00:07:00] and I was interested in the intersection of health and culture and how, you know, indigenous populations or other cultures around the world heal and, uh.

I think I always sort of knew I would be a practitioner of some sort, but getting an MD didn't really feel like the right fit. And it was just a matter of living and exploring and searching until I found the things that were the right fit. But along the way, there were a lot of trainings and courses and certifications, you know, herbal medicine expeditions and.

And so. Those sort of serve as the foundation through which I weave other things through my lens. Mm hmm. I love this and I'm so excited, you know, we're going to talk about the seven senses and the four quadrants of health and the seven core wounds, or at least these are some of the things I'm excited to hopefully get to, but it's just so powerful because as we talked before, I, I work in the.

the realm of emotional root cause to ailments, illness, disease, limiting patterns. But I love what you're doing with seven senses because we really do need to be addressing all of those. And I think there's people like myself who maybe address one of those quadrants and then are encouraging my clients to say, and also these are very important.

Idea. Well, we will, you know, you can do that one part of the care with me, and then you can do another part of the care with the therapist or an energy worker or somewhere, someone else. And maybe in under great circumstances I might communicate with those other practitioners. Mm-hmm . Um, you know, but the truth of the matter is when you're working in the conventional healthcare system.

And I think it's, it's a flaw of the system and, and I'm not here to really just like complain about the system because I understand why it is the way it is. And honestly, if someday I need a hand surgery, I want a hand surgeon. I don't want someone who's thinking about my, you know, connection to. spirit or what emotion was present during the injury.

When we say the quadrants, we're talking about physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of oneself. And I started to see these patterns where like I could help them, let's say on the physical plane, and then they might be doing something with their therapists in the mental or emotional space, but eventually they'd be in my office.

And now in my practice, I do work with all four quadrants. I also spend a lot of time with people and that means I don't have a lot of space to, you know, work with thousands of people a year, like I used. do. So there's, you know, tradeoffs and benefits and advantages and disadvantages to everything. But yeah, now I sort of keep it all in house.

That really speaks to the work you've done, I think. Yeah, I, I mostly agree with you. I get into this conversation with myself a lot with just this idea of embodiment, right? And I stand by that, you know, to some degree, I can really only take someone in an embodied place to somewhere that I've been. And yet you find yourself in conventional medicine, often prescribing a medication that you've never taken or you wouldn't take yourself.

I can empathize in the sense that, like, I know what it feels like to feel unwell. I know what it feels like to to grieve, right? I can. I can feel the feelings and connect that way, but I may not have experienced the circumstances that you're going through. And I think that there's a time and a place for both, right?

Totally. I think we're actually in a total agreement here in that. What I mean is. You are covering these four quadrants, spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, which I think means, on some level, you yourself are pursuing things in each of those areas. That way you're comfortable even going there, and it's not that you have to have been or done something, or the exact tool that your patient or client is using.

I think sometimes even still in the world holistic medicine. It's it's still Only on that physical element, holistic, physical health, non toxic physical health. And there are some of these other areas that just aren't. As equally prioritized, I find. And so I'm really interested in just having this conversation and dialogue around that lens of looking at healing through all four of these must.

What does that actually look like tangibly? So we can also kind of wrap our heads around that a little bit. Yeah, definitely. I mean, first I, I love having this conversation of just what does it mean to be holistic, right? And I think you point to something that's really important, which is that the boundaries of the whole are not static, right?

But then, you know, if As a mental health professional, obviously it has to go beyond the body, right? The, the thoughts, beliefs, the emotional field that has to be part of the whole. And I always like to kind of walk people through this with the, the map of the chakra system, because it's like, if I'm sitting in my root chakra or my pursuit, Back taking the perspective of the root chakra, then the whole is the whole of the body.

And if I'm in the sacral, then it's the body and the emotional field. And if I'm up at the solar plexus, it's the body, the emotional field, the thoughts and the beliefs. If I move up into the heart, it's where the boundaries of the individual self start to dissolve. Right. So now it's also like, we're talking about my presence.

And then it starts to get weirder and weirder, right? You get up to the third eye and now we're like beyond time and space. But from a, from, you know, just. And in the, from the perspective of my practice, this is important because this is why I think, you know, seasons matter. This is why, you know, we, I might want to know what, when someone was born and what's going on astrologically when they're going through a difficult time.

What are the boundaries? That's so good. Yeah, because even as you're saying that the hole that I see to someone else might be missing some other important pieces like this, whatever it might be, you know, the astrological part of it, the yes, any number of different things. I love that. What a great point.

And, you know, like a lot of the time when you're working with someone, you can't get them to their goal without involving their relationships, right? And that's like, now we're at that level of the heart chakra, right? Where the, the boundaries of the whole that we're working with are bigger than the individual self.

And, you know, there might be a world in which that's holistic, but for me, that's, that's usually just marketing. Mm hmm. So I think it's helpful for anyone who's seeking holistic care to kind of pause first and say, what is the whole and what does holistic mean to me? And then let me find a practitioner that can meet me and has, you know, that, that broad of a scope.

Right? So I think about the physical quadrant, I almost think about each one having a different language or a different way that it relates. To self and reality. And so the physical quadrant is sensation, right? Mm-hmm . And so we're dealing with pain in the body or you know, loose bowel movements or chronic fatigue, right?

My three year old son is the greatest teacher of emotion that I've ever encountered when he feels something big, he screams or he cries or he shakes his body or he just like, you know, has some dramatic eruption and then he's in a different emotional state and that's it. But you know, when I'm in session with a client and a big emotion comes up and they well up with tears, 90 percent of the time, they start to talk over it.

Mm hmm. I also feel like there's an important distinction because I think about the emotional quadrant as slightly more like receptive dominant. In other words, we're getting feedback, very strong feedback about the world around us or what of what we've created through our emotional experience. And our physical sensations as well.

You know this better than me, the emotions get trapped in the body and because our attention is on generally the thing that's causing the emotion we don't like feeling, we create this feedback loop. And for me, this is often where like a very healthy grief process becomes, you know, a diagnosis of major depressive disorder, right?

But This spiritual component is integral, it's integral, partially because even though our healthcare system would like us to think that we know a lot, and maybe even that we know everything, the truth is what we know, what we've classified by diagnosis, What we know how to treat is pretty small. There's a lot we don't know.

I mean, there are so many syndromes out there these days. Irritable bowel syndrome, PCOS, right? And this is basically just medicine saying, We don't. exactly know what this is, but if you're experiencing, you know, a certain amount of this number of symptoms, we're going to call it this, and this is how we're going to treat it.

So I think spirituality. Provides that. And I also see the spiritual quadrant as the part of us that's quantum, right? And in the quantum field, all possibilities, all potentials exist. But the one that we put our attention on is the one that becomes more likely than the others. So this is where intention comes in.

Mm hmm. And if the patient or the client or the individual, the one healing themselves, limits themselves from the get go, there's no way we can ever get them to what they want because in the quantum field, if they put their focus on that limited goal, then that's where we're going to end up. So, that's sort of like the role of the four quadrants.

And it's not because I'm seeing something or hearing something or smelling something. There's just a sense. And the nervous system is that sensitive, right? So then the nervous system translates to every organ system of the body. Either we're safe and we can prepare to rest and digest and enjoy the finer things in life, or we're under threat and we prepare to fight or flight or freeze.

We've all, you know, felt fight or flight and we shrug our shoulders up to our ears to protect our carotid arteries and we get this muscle tension and the pupil dilation and our breath shallows. And then our mind goes into like, what do I need to do to protect myself? The fear and anxiety are instant.

And then just kind of spiritually. Speaking, we're focused on survival, right? We're not focused on what is my life purpose and how do I fulfill my mission? It's just like, how do I keep this body alive? So the nervous system has an independent relationship with the four quadrants, but then the nervous system.

So once again, our physiology is impact impacted, um, you know, hormonally, like that is our emotional state. So our emotional state is impacted. Then the emotions impact are both physical and emotional impact our thoughts. And we. Yeah. And then again, you know, it feeds back into the spiritual and it's sort of like, okay, it's just about staying in the body.

And, um, when I say which quadrant do we need to start in, that sort of influences what types of tools I use. So a brand that I just discovered this year and have been absolutely obsessed with it is the fullest Saffron latte. I actually had Nikki Bostwick the founder of the fullest on the podcast that episode is 156 for any who want to go back and listen to it and I'll make sure it's linked in the show notes below as well the episode but after I had this conversation with her I immediately ran [00:34:00] out and bought The saffron latte powder and it is so delicious I drink it every single evening and it's become such a beautiful ritual for me because I'm such a beverage girlie I love having different beverages to drink throughout the day, but to also have something in the evening that has no caffeine Such clean ingredients, but what you'll guys hear if you haven't listened to that podcast episode yet is that the studies have found recently that Saffron at a certain dose at a certain dose is just as effective as Prozac for helping Anxiety, depression, ADHD, and so it's something that I have absolutely loved myself.

But it's become kind of my product of the year that I'm just like, oh my god, how can I get everyone to try this? So they have the latte powder, which I absolutely love and the dosage of saffron in the latte powder is the highest But they also have capsules that you can take that still meet that minimum dosage that has been studied And the capsules are a little bit, a little bit less expensive as well.

So really encourage you guys check out the link below in the show notes for discount codes, holiday sales, and give the fullest to try. I love this so much. Yes. And how, how do you determine which quadrant? Is it really the one where you're just like, I'm seeing the most impact here or, well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you kind of how I approach it with clients, right?

So we actually need to move some of these smaller stones first, even though that's really the one causing the most impact. We can't actually start there. That's an interesting way of putting it. And um, I think that my answer is harmonious, but it's a little bit, but I, it's like, There are two possibilities for me.

And so. So, it kind of becomes irrelevant which one I think is where the real block is, but it's about where are they least comfortable, right? Oh, okay. They haven't had anyone really take them into, you know, the emotional realms or the spiritual realms. So, I'm going to go there because like, they need to know that I'm not going to do the same thing that the last seven people did.

And if that's the case, I start where they feel most comfortable to make sure that we really establish some safety. And then once that is the case, then I will probably take them toward that bigger boulder. It's such a beautiful, I'm learning so much, even for me as a practitioner, I'm excited to just reflect more on this and go, there's, there's a lot here and maybe kind of unconsciously and intuitively I do that a little bit where it's, I know we, I know we need to go here.

And then there's an archetype of person that like, that is really not. Therapeutic, right? And you really need to like, slow down and be gentle and make sure that there is like, so much safety before you start to move big things. Yeah, bringing it back to as we were talking about going through the four quadrants, something that I think is just worth saying is, I was thinking about how You know, I actually see people overindexing on each of those, right, where sometimes, sometimes often it's a lot of overindexing on the physical quadrant and the other ones get neglected, but I will say even working at, um, I contract with this holistic integrative cancer center, [00:40:00] you know, we'll have people come in who.

have stage four cancer, their body, their physical body is in a very poor state. And I would say they're probably over indexing on the spirituality component and just saying. No, no, no, I don't need to do anything for this body, God or spirit or other is just going to heal this and, and vice versa over indexing on the mental component, I just need to get my mindset in a good place and then everything else will fall into place.

And so it was interesting as you were saying that that that piece clicked for me a little bit of we're not just saying you can over index in the physical, which I do see the most of, but we also can over index and some of these other ones. And to your point, I just say all the time, the body, mind, and spirit demand to be heard.

We're like noticing so much attention is there. We're doing so much work there. One path toward health might be to start putting more attention toward the spiritual, mental, or emotional, or all three. Another pathway to health might be finding balance in the physical, right? So in my, you know, competitive athletes.

So that you can do more over here. It's maybe everything you're doing in the physical is necessary and needed. And also these other areas need to be a part of that, you know, in some way. And I also think we're saying what that looks like balance doesn't necessarily mean like. 25, 25, 25 percent all the way through.

Balance is so nuanced and fluid and meeting ourself that like I might be in a time right now where I feel my spiritual self needing a little more emphasis and six months from now it could be different. It could be that physical self. Yes. 100%. And, you know, and that's as we were talking about the boundaries of the whole, right?

And I, I actually would really love your input on it of even just this word healing. I'm healing. I'm trying to heal. I would just love to have a little discussion on this for a second, because there's a part of me that. Finds that could be a bit limiting in the sense of if there is one specific point, what I think we all need to know.

What does that mean to me? We're throwing this word around. What does it actually mean to me? But what I see, right, working on that mental emotional side is oftentimes there are limiting beliefs beneath that, that they're not even aware of, of, and I can't have peace until I'm healed. I can't have freedom until I'm healed.

Uh, you don't ever want to not be healing because if I'm not healing and then I scrape my arm, I'm going to have an open wound for the rest of my life, right? So to me, healing is a part of the human journey. And I think if there's weight for someone around what that means, it is possible that we want to use different language, but for me, what's important Within the language of healing, or this word, I guess, is that we are holding [00:45:00] the awareness that we are always healing and we are always healed at the same time, because at any given moment, you and I could be Point to things on our body that have healed.

They've completely healed, you know, maybe there's a little bit of scar tissue left over, but you know, for all living purposes, we're like, this is healed. I can run again, um, and there's always something to heal. So I think what I would rather do, if possible, with someone who feels like self judgment or, you know, it's emotionally complex to identify with healing is I would rather reframe what healing means and make sure that they.

Yeah, I love that perspective. I think that's exactly how I view it as well, because when it's when it's a specific destination, I find that that can sometimes trip people up either one, if they don't, if they've been at it for years and feel like they haven't gotten to that destination, they can feel like a failure, or again, when they have these unconscious beliefs of, and because I'm not healed, I can't have access to blank, whatever that is, peace, joy, freedom, et cetera.

I, I love that where it's more of a part of living. And I really loved what you said about we are always simultaneously healing and healed. That was really powerful. You know, I also think you brought up a really interesting point about the destination. And one thing I say to everyone I work with during the first session is, It's important to have a goal or an intention, a destination that you want to get to.

I hope that you see new things for yourself. And one of the ways that I Kind of honor this. And my practice is I work with people in three month increments, right? So there's never a commitment of more or less than that. It's like, we're going to get to this destination. And then when we get to that destination, let's actually pose the question.

But yes, for me, it's more of, yeah, I don't want to just be aimlessly meeting with people. I practice very, very differently than I think most conventional psychology is practicing in that way. Where it's, I'm almost kind of like, don't come back until you've got the next destination. Or of course, I can be a part of helping us find that next destination.

But we're not here to just kind of wander aimlessly. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. I would love, I know we don't have a ton of time left, but I would love to see if we could touch in with the seven core wounds because this is just so in line with what I do and what I see. And if you, you know, if we can talk about that a little bit.

Um, I will say I'm in a place with these wounds where I think some of the language needs to change for it to really fit what I'm seeing in my practice. And I haven't quite honed in on my own words yet. I have more like a string of words for each one. So I'm a little bit in process with this, but the idea that in, in the way that I work with it is the fact that, you know, you spoke about root cause of, of disease or illness or suffering.

The language he uses is repression. And I say that because if you read a lot of my writing, I use that language too. And, and repression is. It's about repressing parts of ourselves that we perceive as unlovable, um, repressing aspects of our authenticity to secure attachment and acceptance. And so, um, you know, repression is one word we could talk about it.

And it's. So, you know, at the root chakra, what we're talking about is like, we didn't securely attach and we're going through our lives, you know, afraid to be who we really are. And that shows up physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, right? So when we're confused about what is safe and what is not in the body, we have allergies or we have skin issues.

small. We're always thinking about who does this person want me to show up as and not, you know, who am I? Um, what will they do? What will they say if I show them who I really am, right? So we get these thought patterns associated with that. It's, it, it's like the imprint of fear is everywhere, you know, emotionally.

They've built a whole life based on fear and wearing masks, being the person that they thought someone else wanted them to be. And, you know, so that's sort of like this core wound of the root chakra. Uh, As you can see, it's going to take me a while to go through all of them, but I'll try and be brief.

And already, I think you've given enough for us to start to wrap our minds around the yeah, the idea behind this seven core wounds and then how those start to ripple onto all the quadrants of health. And then, you know, it sort of becomes almost like a different system of, of diagnostics, right? Because in a, in a holistic intake and you're learning about.

Someone's life and their relationships and what's going on in their body. And you're assessing their, you know, thoughts and beliefs as they're speaking to you, the way that they talk about themselves and, um, Sooner or later, usually sooner, it becomes very clear what the driving thing is that threads through all four of the quadrants.

Recovering our birth stories. I mean, there's just the, once you know what the thing is, the well of tools is endless, really. Mm hmm. Well, and to your point, it's, it gives you that guidance of, okay, if there is this theme of, a lack of safety or fear. How do we address [00:57:00] that in all four quadrants? How do we address fear from a physiological perspective, from a mental, from an emotional, from a spiritual?

Yes. I love that. Yeah. And I think with a lot of this work, it's an inside job and it's an outside job, you know? So we're sort of going back and forth between like, let's work on this, you know, In the body in the mindset in the emotional space, but like, let's also work on it out here, right? Like, let's say, rather than showing up as your most authentic self in a relationship that doesn't feel safe, right?

And I think that this is like a real sort of I'm pleased that sometimes the coaching industry goes wrong and I'll see people who are working with coaches who are like, you know, you want this thing, life is short, you know, take this big jump up level here, you know, but the thing is a lot of the time, particularly with this like root chakra wounding.

We're not working with our adult selves. We're working with a part of ourselves that like actually knew that if they were unloved that their survival was threatened because this is actually the case when we're babies. And so, you know, when your two year old is afraid to walk away from their parent because they think when they can't.

Then people think it's going to be, yes, eventually they quit the job. Eventually they leave the relationship that, you know, where they know they're with the wrong partner, but not right away. And we can heal and start to feel better long before we take that big jump or as you say, then move the big boulder.

And this pattern is being influenced by so much more than just their intellectual mind. And so we need to look at all those pieces. Yes, and you know, because you said that I'll bring up also just like the power of bringing like divinatory tools into this work, right? It's like the difference between showing someone a tarot card or them picking it and you saying, what do you see?

What does this mean to you? What is the symbolism that catches your eye versus saying, read this book and tell me what the card means, right? There's two very, very different ways of working. And I think a huge part of healing. is becoming conscious of the unconscious, right? We can't heal it until we bring it into the light.

Um, maybe we'll just have you list them with a little bit of like, okay, this is the prelude to maybe a part two. Yeah. So then we move up to the sacral and the wound is denial. And, uh, I'll just say like a snippet about each one that denial of the emotional experience, right? Of the fact that our discomfort is often driving us to do things.

Um, the solar plexus is shame and, uh, this one pretty much speaks for itself, but I think, you know, we're thinking a lot. Here about overachieving accolades success, you know, when we're starting to get a lot of feedback from the world, this is what you're good at. This is what you're not. And the parts of ourselves that don't make us feel confident and powerful.

They sound similar, but they're very different. Um, then there's the heart, the wound of rejection, right? And this idea that, um, rejection, right? Cause the heart now, this is like the bridge between the lower chakras and the upper chakras. So rejection is actual, actually sort of like spiritual protection.

It's opening me to the divine guidance that is here for me. Mm hmm. And then the throat chakra, that one's guilt. And, um, I like to throw the word resentment in here too, because I think it, it comes up a lot. Uh, my like group of words at the throat chakra is guilt, resentment, privilege, and responsibility, right?

It's sort of like the weight of the privilege of the creator. Now you're up in the upper chakras. You create with your word and that's an incredible gift. It's an incredible power. So use it very carefully with integrity. And if you have too much guilt around that gift or that power, it can kind of weigh you down, right?

Um, and this one. You know, it's, it comes with duality, right? When we, when there's dualism, we separate. And, uh, a lot of the work here is about reclaiming that you're not just your sun sign in astrology. You're not just the tarot card you drew. You're all the archetypes in the deck. You're every sign of the Zodiac.

And he would probably say and even I would say on some days that there you can't have a wound of the crown chakra. It can't be wounded because it's the whole but the crown chakra is the paradox. So it can and it can't be wounded. It's like me saying we're always healing and we're always healed at the same time.

I'm looking to reconnect them to like the miracle of childbirth or pregnancy or the overview of fact, right? There's these videos of astronauts going into space. base and looking back and seeing the earth and being forever transformed because all of a sudden, like their scale of, you know, not just how big it all is, but the beauty of existence.

But a part of me has forgotten it, or it is so deeply buried or repressed or something that That that knowing isn't coming through. I know that's what's coming up for me with that. Yeah, it's, I mean, you definitely get, get the point. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay. I, I want to be respectful of both of our times.

It's such a joy. Now, I wanted to, we'll make sure, Your, you know, your website, your Instagram, which, by the way, I really encourage people following your Instagram. There's, it's always so fun. Everything you post is so good and nourishing for me. But I also know you've got a retreat coming up, and I wanted to give you some space to talk about that for a second.

So, um, With my partner, I do one retreat a year where we basically take people on this journey through these seven different core wounds. Um, and the experience integrates the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of the self. And so it's sort of like my My masterpiece this, this week is, is my favorite thing I do in all of my work.

I think astrologically even just like a lot of kind of processing and shedding and shadow work. And so I'm going to look into that. Oh, wow. That would be amazing. And Spain is a very, very special, special place for me. So that's beautiful. Yay. I'll make sure that, is that on your main website? Because I can make sure the link to that retreat is linked in the show notes too.