Are you running your business on fumes — pushing harder, resting less, and wondering why you keep hitting the same ceiling?

What if the real issue isn't your strategy, your team, or your market, but the order in which you're investing your most important resources?

Dan Anderson spent 20 years as a pastor before realizing he was committing what he calls "pastoral malpractice" — failing to equip the people in his congregation for where they spend 60% of their waking hours: the workplace.

That conviction led him out of the pulpit and into full-time work helping Christian entrepreneurs bridge the Sunday-to-Monday gap. Today he serves as President of Kingdom Way Ministries and National Ministry Director for FCCI.

Join us as Dan walks through the Five Capitals framework — spiritual, relational, physical, intellectual, and financial — and why getting the order right changes everything about how you lead and how you grow.

Redeem Your Business Today by the Following:

How can we honor God in our business?

Dan's first core value is "unquestioned obedience" — trusting God even when it doesn't make sense. That means putting spiritual capital first, not as a nice add-on to your leadership, but as the foundation everything else is built on.

When you lead out of the overflow of time spent with God, the people around you feel the difference.

One challenge from today: This week, identify which of the five capitals is most depleted in your life and commit to one specific habit — Sabbath rest, a fun activity, a prayer practice — that begins to refill it.

More About Dan Anderson

Website: www.kingdomwayministries.net

More About David Schmidt

Free Resource: What God Says About Business: 5 Uncommon Truths for the Modern Business

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So we generally think of capital as assets that you have, money, equipment, and things like that, people, but there's much more to it than that. today I brought on Dan Anderson, who is the president of ⁓ Kingdom Way Ministries and also the national ministry director for FCCI. And we're gonna talk about the five different capitals that we have as leaders and how it affects us today. So Dan, welcome ⁓ to Redeeming Business Today podcast. And to start off with.

What is one way that you have found to honor God in your business that others may not know about?

⁓ man, that's a great question. And thanks for having me on the podcast, David. I really appreciate it. I know we tried to get this going for a long time. So here it is. ⁓ You know, I would, I would say this is top of mind is I really endeavor to seek to obey God and everything. That's, that's the one thing if I can do that, that I know that I'll obey him in every aspect of my life and leadership. And so that's.

One of my first values, so I have three values, and the first one is unquestioned obedience, even if sometimes it doesn't make sense. So that's how I endeavor to try to glorify God every single day.

Okay, that's great, great. And yeah, once you hear from them, run with it. yeah. Well, hey, give us a brief background on how God has led you to bring you where you are today and the different organizations that you're working with.

Yeah.

Absolutely, yeah.

Yeah, for sure, man. Well, this is a long story, but I'll try to encapsulate it and summarize it some here. So for the first 20 years of my vocational life, I was a pastor and I didn't think I would do anything different. The first 10 years, I was a church planter and helped start a couple of churches in Lawrence, Kansas and Kansas City, really growing areas. And it was super fun. I was bivocational most of those 10 years. And so I got some great

⁓ experience in the marketplace. And then I was a lead pastor for 10 years in Scotts Bluff, Nebraska. And, ⁓ during that time, God just really started breaking my heart in terms of, and how I describe it now, looking back as I share the story with people is that I didn't realize it, but I was on some level committing pastoral malpractice. And what I mean by that is, ⁓ I started realizing that

Hmm, anyway.

I think we had done a lot of great things as a church and me as a pastor had a lot of impact in the community, which is really exciting. But I started discovering that I was missing a crucial piece in my ministry and that is empowering people in where they spend 60 or more percent of their waking hours and that is in the workplace. And so I started wrestling with what does it look like to really help build devoted followers of Christ?

in the marketplace and help them bridge that Sunday to Monday gap that can so easily exist in our lives. And so I started a small group and it just mushroomed from there. And ⁓ long story short, after five years of doing work with some entrepreneurs and business people in my community as a pastor, I just realized that through what they taught me that there was a need for this full time. And so that's how I ended up in Colorado.

Mm-hmm.

and with Kingdom Way Ministries and now FCCI doing it full time, just helping entrepreneurs understand what it looks like to live out their faith and their calling in the workplace.

And I think that's good because from the pulpit, there's not a whole lot of talk about business and or they don't understand business. I mean, they think it's great. They think you're great as a business owner, but that's not their wheelhouse and what they do. So it's nice to have.

Absolutely, and

it's not intentional pastors by and large, not all of them, but it's not intentional at all. It wasn't for me either, until I started understanding their world a little bit more and ⁓ started pressing into that.

Mm-mm.

Yeah. So you talked earlier about the five capital framework. What is the five capital framework on a high level there?

Yeah, so as a ministry, we do several things. So we host events that incite and inspire entrepreneurs. We do a few of those a year, like we're doing one next week. We got a couple hundred people coming to Loveland, Colorado next week, which we're really excited about. But beyond that, we try to get them in peer advisory group forums with other Christian business owners and entrepreneurs to really grow their faith, ⁓ kind of their inner world.

that we grow their relational world and work on their business all in one environment. But beyond that, we do a lot of coaching. And so in these environments with the peer advisory groups and with coaching, the five capitals framework comes up over and over and over again. And what I'm finding, a lot of people ask like, Dan, what do you end up coaching around the most with executive leaders? A lot of times it might start with productivity or how to build culture and teams and some of the foundational things that

skills that business leaders may still be working on, but by and large, David, what I found is ⁓ people ⁓ really end up going back to these five capitals. And the five capitals is simply this, and this is God's ideal ⁓ framework for his priorities for us as leaders. And we coach around the personal side and the business side. I'll give the personal side first. It's spiritual.

So love God with all your heart, soul and mind and strength, and then seek for his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things. So if we get that right, a lot of the other ones start falling into place immediately. And then the relational is, you know, love others as we're called to love others as we, ⁓ you know, want to be loved and serve. And then the third one is physical. In our physical life, exercise, rhythms, sleeping.

patterns and all that kind of thing, but also Sabbath rests. Then intellectual comes forth and then the finances kind of follow that flow of ideal order. And the reason I'm sharing this, because you're sharing this with a lot of business people, but here's what I found is like, if you don't get to as close to 100 % health in those first three or four capitals first, the finances don't happen. Or if you don't get the first order right, the first three,

the intellectual or the business piece doesn't work. ⁓ So many times, ⁓ and here's what I think, is I think if we don't get to close to 100 % health in each of those first ones, we reach a ceiling in our leadership that will never pass in our business, or the organizations we're called to run. Or at the very least, they'll be ineffective because...

we're operating on less than a full tank in those first categories. So we have an assessment that we use and just where's your real time in this and just have a lot of conversations around that and help executive leaders build habits that will get them to 100 % health in each of those areas so they lead out of the overflow of what God's placing in those.

Sure.

Okay, very good. No, I agree. Those are very good five aspects there. ⁓ You kind of already said it, but would spiritual then, you feel like that would be the number one aspect to focus on or like all three, those first three, you kind of work on all of them together?

Yeah, so it kind of depends when we do the assessment. So we also have a business side. I'll just mention that real quick first. Don't come back to that. So the business side is five P's. It's purpose. And then you can kind of see the correlations in the other personal side of your life too. But it's purpose, people, pace, perception or innovation, and then profit. So we have one that does the personal side, then one that kind of brings both of them together.

Okay.

So to answer your question, a lot of times when I do that assessment, there might be a lot of things that uncover of a gap of the spiritual is not number one. tell me about that. What's going on there and what do feel like that's missing in there? What are some ways to beef that up? But some, you know, might have that as a, have some good spiritual practices in place, good healthy rhythms for Sabbath work rest.

But then maybe the relational and physical worlds are really out of shape and it's affecting the way they show up in their workplace. So we ask questions about, why is that happening there? And what patterns do you see from this? And just surface a lot of different things from the coaching conversation and then work on action steps to help them develop habits that really shore up those areas that they're weaker in.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Okay, no, that makes sense. If you have an assessment, that's a great place to zero in on your need.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And then we kind of customize the approach to whatever the person's need is. The five capitals assessment is something we use a lot of times, the first ⁓ right up front, but we have other tools and frameworks too that we help them to really discern. What is it that God is calling them to really work on in that season? Or maybe there's some blind spots that they really want to focus on and then we just kind of go from there.

Okay.

How do you focus on your blind spots if they're blind spots and you don't know about them?

Well,

that's the issue of a blind spot, right? So that's why everyone needs a coach or a group that kind of helps uncover those things that we don't know what it's like sometimes of what it's like for others to experience our leadership on the other side of us.

Yeah. Or a friend or something, yeah.

Yeah, no, it's true. That's where other people come in, no matter who you have. You need somebody around you who understands you and can see that. ⁓ So spiritual, what would you, what things would you suggest to help people shore up their spiritual life and their relationship with God and seeking God's kingdom?

Absolutely.

Yeah, so this is where I think that integrated life, the word, Latin word integer, really means whole, you know, and we get mathematic terms that related to that. But I think it's also a part of this aspect of our spiritual life is it's all interrelated. So obviously you might think of things like spiritual practices and disciplines that

people aren't engaging in. So some of the men's immersives experience groups that we have for entrepreneur ⁓ men, we find that ⁓ helping them, they don't know, understand the spiritual practice really well, or they don't ⁓ have exercised them. But this is my philosophy, David, you might disagree with me on this, but I believe that a spiritual practice is anything that helps us to love, honor, and serve God.

So a spiritual practice ⁓ could be related to ⁓ practices of productivity that free them up to bring them greater freedom, purpose, and joy. So for example, I'm a certified coach with Full Focus Planner and Michael Hyatt's organization as well. And so I think sometimes a spiritual practice can be disciplines in making sure that we go to our calendar and there's that daily priority time with God as an example.

but it could be even practices of ⁓ so many entrepreneurs I know they're not doing fun things and they get burnt out. Like the one guy I was coaching, ⁓ part of the way back from being really burnt out, like, I asked him a challenge of just do one thing this month that's fun. If it's golf, it's sailing, hiking, whatever, he wasn't doing any of that. And we reported back.

We reported back and then ⁓ I said, okay, now I want you to map out the rest of the year, at least one fun thing every month. This last year, he already had mapped out before I could even ask about it because it was so life-giving and improved his spiritual capital because ⁓ it was refilling all these other things were draining him. And we see this in Jesus too, just spending time with a few close friends like

the inner circle of the 12 even, know, James and John as an example and Peter. But then also Lazarus and Mary and Martha seemed like a family he really enjoyed being with. so, and I think that was part of his spiritual disciplines. We don't see that in Scripture, but those are things that replenished and refueled him. And we talk a lot about what do you do for a Sabbath? That's a challenging one because many, many

entrepreneurs don't take any kind of Sabbath. You know, there's a reason why it's one of the 10 biggies, the 10 commandments is because we don't, we don't. But that's a spiritual practice that is part of the spiritual capital, but it's also part of the physical capital as well that bleeds over. And I tell you what, if I can help an entrepreneur understand what it looks like to truly take a Sabbath that

don't.

Yep, yep. We don't think of it that way, but yeah.

is not just recreational, but regenerates, recreates, ⁓ that's a game changer there.

Yeah, excuse me. I'm reading a book called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. And it talked about the sabbath, the definition of it comes from the word Shabbat, I believe, which literally means to stop. It's not just rest, but it's to stop, just stop everything. Yes, to cease, stop and rest. And yeah, he made a big case about today. We just keep going and filling our lives with everything and don't like even silence. We like having things.

Yes.

Yeah. To cease. Yeah.

in our ears all the time. And that's a missed art, but it's a habit too.

Yeah.

And this is the other thing that I end up getting into privileged and just sacred space conversations with business leaders. And it's like, we talk about the iceberg and the freedom model. I think every entrepreneur is looking for greater freedom, joy and purpose, and it's evading them and they have this smoldering discontent and they really don't know why. Sometimes it's because they're not truly integrating their faith calling their business and we share a lot of ideas how they could do that.

But sometimes it's just because they don't haven't looked underneath the surface. So for example, in the relations of why, why is it so hard for them to take a Sabbath? Why is it hard for them? A lot of times, and for me, speaking myself, to just stop and unwind and do nothing. Well, there's lies and limited beliefs that underneath the surface that we really drill into is like, what's, what's perpetuating that the above the water line that we see and feel.

And a lot of times it's like, well, if I stop, then everything else is going to stop the business, the production. there's lies and let me beliefs and fears that are driving that behavior. Like it's up to, it's, if it's to be, it's up to me. Right. And so to cease to stop and a Sabbath rest is really a call to, am I going to trust God to

Yeah, yeah.

build the business, you know, there's a scripture in Psalm 127, the Lord builds the business, the labor, labor's in vain. And so it's almost an opportunity to say, okay, God, I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna trust you that you got all this. This is just my privilege to steward, but I'm gonna trust you and rest. And it's amazing how when we obey God, all of a sudden things start happening when we're stuck.

That's just unbelievable. And that's true of any spiritual practice in putting God first is I don't have time for this, but you don't have time not to make time for that.

Yeah, we don't think about that. yeah, like you said, lest the Lord builds a house, the laborers build in vain. I like to think of what Paul said in First Corinthians is, planted, Apollo swattered, God caused the growth. And when you look at business, it's our job to do the functions, know, get our product, do things. But there's time to stop, too. And God is the one who causes the growth.

Yes.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I'd like to hear your take on it, but it's interesting. I've, you know, from Malachi 3, 8 through 12, it talks about people robbing God. He says, bring all the tithes into the storehouse and prove me now herewith if I will not open to you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing where there would not be room enough to receive it. And I wonder how many people out there are getting God's blessing. They have way too much work than they know what to do with, but yet they try to grab it all.

Yeah, that's good.

Mm-hmm.

instead

of just saying, okay, I don't have time to do all this stuff. I'll just do the 40 hours or so of work. And if the other stuff slides away, it slides away and be super content with that time. I don't know of people who do that. Usually if they get all this sales, like, ooh, I'm stressed out because I got to meet all the need. You see what I'm saying?

you

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. I agree with you 100 % man. It's good.

So,

⁓ but yeah, so spiritual, relational, ⁓ physical, how have you found physical? Is that talking about health of the body then, or what is that talking about?

Yeah, it's, you know, normally you think of physical like you talk about, talk about your sleep, you know, what's your sleep number, like the bed, but you know, ideal hours of sleep that you need to feel rested. That's a part of it. And then diet we think of and we think of exercise and certainly all that's true. ⁓ I work out four, five times a week. And if I don't do that, I notice the difference of my mental clarity and sharpness.

Yeah.

If I don't watch what I eat, it slows me down and I'm not functioning in maximum capacity. So it's those things, but the physical is also what we just talked about is your work rest rhythms. And here's something else that I think is really important, a distinction is normally in our culture here in America for sure, and very many other parts of the world, we have a mentality that goes beyond the below the surface lies, let me release, we've developed to say.

We have a mentality that we normally think of ⁓ working this way. I work first and then I rest.

Mm.

And that is the mentality many entrepreneurs are functioning by. The problem is our work is never done. So we don't rest enough. And then what happens is, you know, the law of thermodynamics is the, for every second law of thermodynamics, every action there's equal opposite reaction. If we work, work, work, work, work, and we depend on them up here, and then we crash into rest.

And then we don't engage with our families well and we don't enjoy our time. It's just crash. And then what happens, know, Dallas Willard, I know you've got a lot of spiritual background and kind of ministry background. You may have heard this before, but Dallas Willard, love this quote, is if we don't carve out a satisfying life under the rule of God, sin will start to look good.

Interesting.

So when we crash into rest, all of a sudden we're still craving something more. And so we start turning to binging on Netflix or alcohol or other things to fill that satisfaction void in our hearts. So, but this is the biblical philosophy is rest comes first. Even the created order before sin entered the world, know, God said there was evening and there was morning.

the Hebrew time scale, evening and morning was the day, right? And so you could learn a lot from that is that the rest came first, then the work came after that. So a lot of these five capitals is like, how do we get those things right? So out of the overflow, then we give our 100 % to work and to leading our teams and are working with our customers and vendors well.

Yep, very good. And I've heard also the illustration of like two horses. If you're going to bet on a horse and the same size, same muscular ⁓ build and all that, and one is sick and one is healthy, who's going to win? It's the healthy horse. It's the healthy horse. You the healthy person versus the sick is going to is going to win every time. And so, yeah, that that health is very key.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

in not just business, but in all areas of your life. So Dan, do have any final thoughts of encouragement for our audience today as we close out?

Yeah, one thing is on top of mind. We had a group discussion just this morning on this and this is this is something I'll leave everybody with and ⁓ if if anyone's interested connecting with us for events coaching, you don't have to be local with us here in Northern Colorado, Denver, but you could check out our website for all the things that we're up to and there's a way we could serve you. We'd love to its Kingdom Way ministries net and we have groups called Bandit for Men nationwide that are for.

where we meet half day for every single month ⁓ to work on every dimension of your life. Some of these things we talked about all in one setting. So I'll share this is ⁓ in Exodus chapter 32 and 33, ⁓ Moses went through a lot of changes in a really quick order after he came down. mean, think about leading an organization or business of 2 million people. That was his job and task. He comes down from the mountain.

and they're all in disarray, they're worshiping an idol after just seeing God move in amazing ways. So he quickly went from ⁓ correction and anger to intercession for the people selflessly. And then also an intimate reaction with God where God and him are talking face to face. And this is the thing that really strikes me about that. God says, well, let me go with you, Moses, the promised land. And he didn't, he didn't settle for that. I said, no, it's like,

I want you to go with us. And he interceded for that. And it says there that if your presence does not go with us, don't even send us. And I tell you what, ⁓ I really believe that the greatest gift an entrepreneur can give the people that they lead is the gift of righteousness and a gift of presence. Someone who's been in the presence of God.

and it has the power of God in our life. Like in Acts 4.13 where it says that ⁓ even these unlearned disciples of Jesus, everyone noticed that they had spent time with Jesus, right? And that is the best gift we can give ⁓ to anyone we lead is that gift of presence ⁓ marked by the presence of God. So that'd be my encouragement.

They have been with Jesus.

Okay, that's super good, Dan. Thank you very much. And thank you for your encouragement today and talking about the five capitals. And friends, if you're looking to go deeper with Dan and his work, check out the show notes for some links, the links and sites and his contact information. And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating review, subscribe to our newsletter. You can get a verse of the week to not just inspire you, but also questions to inspire you as well that way. And remember, your business represents the great God you serve. So build a business worthy of God's name.

All right, yeah.

you

in a way that honors him.