Today's fantastic guest is Rebecca Longawa is the Founder and President of Happy Warrior (which helps brands with strategy and partnerships) and the CEO of Women’s Carball, the second largest esports league for women in the world, and features women who play Rocket League. Naturally, we had a lot to talk about, from avoiding activations that are just a logo slap to creating equitable spaces for girls and women to game. Rebecca is a right light in this industry, and remains dedicated to making it a better place.

Welcome to the meadow woman podcast. We address the

issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

female talent and business executives operating in the

gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey, the

boss poss the meta woman podcast starts now. Hello, and welcome

to the meta woman podcast part of the holodeck media Podcast

Network. I'm your host Lindsey, the boss, boss. And thank you so

much for coming back week after week listening to me, giving me

five star ratings and reviews truly means so much. For all the

new listeners out there. I hope you'll stick around week or I

guess for next episode next week. I'm going to be eventually

taking a short hiatus for a knee surgery but I will be back after

that. And I promise I'm going to miss all of you until then. We

have a wonderful guest today and a woman I really admire. I had

the fortune of meeting her earlier this summer. It was

really lovely. So if you get a chance to hit up the conference

circuit and esports I'm sure you'll find her there. Today we

have on Rebecca young Nova. I hope I said that right. I should

have confirmed with you before I started. Yes. Okay. And that's

spelled L O N G Awa for those looking for you on LinkedIn or

for those of you looking for her on LinkedIn. Rebecca is the

founder and president of happy warrior and the CEO of women's

carbaugh. Happy warrior in its own words, helps brands navigate

sports sponsorship and endorsement, endorsement deals

sportstech and esports. Startups on go to market strategy and

branding. And investors find startups for investments and

athletes and streamers build their brands, so really is a

little bit of everything in her not so spare time. She is also

the CEO of women's carbo League, which are women's carbaugh

rather, which is the second largest esports League for women

in the world and features women who played Rocket League.

Rebecca, welcome to the show. Love for you to introduce

yourself and give a bit of background. Tell me about your

projects about happy warrior about everything else that you

do. I think I only covered about half of it. So you step in for

the rest.

Thanks so much for having me on. Yeah, you know, my background is

in sports marketing and advertising. And I worked with

in the NBA, as a brand manager with the Timberwolves and Lynx.

So I mean, I think the way that I center myself in the esports,

and gaming ecosystem, is really leveraging everything that I

learned working in advertising, working with brands, getting

them integrated in pro sports, I leverage that in a way to really

help a lot of non endemic brands get into esports. And gaming,

you know, I understand marketing goals and objectives, I

understand how to build out really unique activations and

experiences. And so I kind of think of the way that I work

with the pro orgs and teams that I work with. And the way that I

work with brands is really kind of being an idea or with them an

extension of their team to come up with ways that you know, are

beyond what a what everybody fears, which is like the logo

slap, right? It's like, how can you build out a strategy that is

authentic? How do you build something that's credible, and

then really thinking about anchoring it back to

monetization for the brand itself, whether that's short

term or or broad, long term strategy, part of my role with

the Timberwolves happened organically with just the

emergence of a ton of sports tech. So it was just kind of

happening before there were there weren't even directors of

innovations at the pro sports teams, it was just happening

naturally and organically. And I was able to be a part of some

really cool movements in sports technology that now have really

lended Well, to me, helping find some of those startups for

investors, and then working with those startups and really

bringing them from like, the investment strategy that they've

been used to working on for years, sometimes to a true go to

market strategy. And so I still very interested in the in the

traditional sports tech side of the world, a lot of that has

melded into some esports technology. So yeah, I'm working

with some some pro teams. I work with a streamer by the name of

Nutzer. He so calls himself the one handed gamer he was born

with, with only one hand and a partial arm. And he's just a

super elite Warzone streamer. He streams apex and some other

games. He's super cool kid that reached out to me, building out

communities, you know, work, obviously on a lot of women's

issues. I'm a woman in gaming. I come from traditional sports. So

it's natural for me to be a voice for women's issues in our

industry. And women's car ball just kind of fell into my lap I

guess when the new owners purchased that property and they

were really looking for somebody who could build

Hold the business set around what was a very powerful league

that had been really grassroots. And it still is pretty

grassroots. But we're getting a lot of cool traction. So that's

my long winded. Here I am, I love long winded answers. As a

podcast host, I never criticized the guests for talking too much,

that's for sure. I'm so excited to talk more about women's

carbaugh. And we'll definitely get into that I'm, I'm so

interested in that. But I want to I want to start by diving

into your career history of it. And you've already talked about

how you made this transition from the traditional sports

world to the east to esports. in gaming. There's always

comparisons drawn between those two worlds, I think traditional

sports are just so familiar for most people that kind of

understand that model. And so there's this kind of want to

apply that model into esports. And I'm sure you know what I'm

sure you tell brands all day, they're, they're not the same.

There's definitely overlaps for sure. But what skills were you

able to kind of carry over from traditional sports, and what was

something new, you had to maybe learn or dust off from the

archives, when you actually moved to working with more

esports brands, there's a number of things that I was able to

glean from working in traditional sports and apply it

to esports. And it's, it really just comes down to trying to

build out or being able to build out activations that really

resonate with fans, and being able to have a deep

understanding of the client itself, the brand itself and the

team, really understanding what their end game is or what their

goals are. And being able to marry that together, I would say

to your second part of you know, what's really different, or what

I've had to kind of wrap my head around is the way that the fans

really differentiate themselves. In traditional sports, it's a

lot easier for a brand to just attach themselves to, you know,

an NFL team or an NBA team and just kind of let the team run

with it and do whatever and the sports marketing arm I would

say, from a from a large or big box brand. A lot of times just

signs a deal. And they're not super heavily ingrained in the

day to day esports is a little bit different. I would say the

fans are way more sophisticated, I guess. And it's probably

because they're a lot younger, traditional sports fans are

happy to walk in, you know, through a gate of a pro stadium

and have a free handout, and engage with the brand in that

way, or fill out a slip of paper in order to win a basketball or

assigned jersey. And there's a lot of like quick data grab,

when you're dealing with an audience that we have in

esports. That was born digital, they're very marketing adverse.

So they don't necessarily want their data collected, they don't

get really incentivized to hand over who they are in order to

maybe win a thing. I mean, it is a layer within our ecosystem.

They're a lot more sophisticated than that. And I think what the

fans within the esports industry are really looking for is for

brands that want to be a part of their community and want to have

a conversation with them, to come alongside them, not just

talking to them, it is different. And there's layers

and layers to that. I think, right now what we're seeing from

some of the larger brands getting into esports. They're

doing it through their sports marketing departments in many

ways. But I believe the future will really merge and evolve

with their digital marketing teams to be more of a holistic

digital marketing strategy, because there's a lot of gaps

right now that brands can take advantage of, in terms of how

they can reach gamers that maybe are engaging with the game, and

engaging with streams but aren't necessarily the esports

enthusiast like the hyper engaged esports fans. There's a

huge market share that's just really waiting to be on tap

there. Okay, there were so many nuggets of wisdom in there. I

don't even know how to begin to follow up. I hope that anyone

who is in advertising or activations or sponsorships,

maybe you should just click the back button for about two

minutes and listen to that again. I fully plan on re

listening to that answer later. Do you still feel like there is

a learning curve with bigger brands you had mentioned? You

know the NFL the NBA, it's pretty easy to slap a logo on

and I do have to say that I laugh every year when there's

the official tire sponsor of the NFL and you can get away with

that in traditional sports because they're so ingrained

into our culture and society. But do you feel like brands are

starting to recognize the opportunity

eSports is it. I'm wondering if there has been like sort of a

tipping point because you've been in this for a long time,

have you reaching out to brands versus brands reaching out to

you and what that's been like in the past two or three years?

Well, I'll say I'll reach out to a brand once. If they're not

really getting it, then I'm not going to waste my time with that

brand. So there's some advice for anybody who works in

partnerships. If they're not intrigued or excited or curious.

If they're naysaying, if they're talking about the industry in a

way that you feel like like you have to defense or argue, then

that's going to be there, they're going to miss out.

That's okay. There's so much proactive outreach from brands

right now that are truly I would say esports. Curious, they want

to figure it out. And it is a huge learning curve, I would

almost say the bigger like the bigger bigger brands that

weren't early to it, because you've got huge brands like

MasterCard that got in early, right. So they now they just

totally get it like they're super smart. And they're very

well steeped in League of Legends. And in year over year,

they've learned so much. There's brands like DHL who've been in

for a long time. That's a it's a major global brands. But the

other big brands who didn't take a risk earlier, I always say

it's not the fear of missing out, it's the cost of missing

out. Because for a brand to pivot, it's like I always say

it's like turning the Evergreen around in the Suez Canal, it's

gonna take a while, because there's layers of red tape and

complexity within your organization in order to go all

in on a new vertical. The early adopters have smaller risky

brands, you see brands that are not necessarily the healthiest

brands. They're the brands that always take risks early. So the

energy drinks, the salty snacks, they're going to come in early

in anything risky. I always say when I'm talking to esports

properties, look at which brands are leaning in on like UFC and

MMA, those are probably brands that will quickly take a risk in

esports in gaming regardless because they are risk takers. So

you look at things that other people maybe don't have a deep

understanding of. But they but you know, like a Red Bull, the

Red Bulls of the world are like really leaning in on what's new

and what's hot. And that's what sets them apart. Right. And so I

think what we're seeing right now what we've what I have been

a part of over the past, I would say nine to 12 months, is brands

that are in between. So they're global brands, but they're they

might not necessarily be the biggest names in the world. But

they're big names like Bush's Baked beans and pagoda egg rolls

in the space. Now, Tyson chickens been working on esports

strategy and getting into esports through some of their

sweepstakes. So now you're getting into brands that are

yes, a food product but healthier food products that a

mom and dad would would be buying in, in the grocery aisle,

right? Those brands are coming in and kind of testing the

waters and doing due diligence and learning. I think we're

going to see more and more brands that are non endemic

service brands and consumer product goods. Really

understanding that if they want to reach the next generation of

consumers, then this is where they already are in engaging

with content. So instead of creating something from scratch,

they can you know really collaborate with credible

sources within the space and still create unique owned

content. But doing it in a in a totally different way than

they've done before amazing callback to the ever given one

of my favorite moments of 2021 Truly a joyous time. For those

of you who are on Twitter to see the boat stuck in the Suez. What

is one activation or project you've worked on that you really

love? Is there one that just kind of you were like this was

I'm just so happy with the way this turned out. I would say

Bush's Baked beans for me is probably one of the coolest

moments in a partnership success, history of my life. And

for a few reasons. Number one Bush's was introduced to me

through a nonprofit called genyouth Bush's Baked Beans has

historically done so much behind the scenes and under the radar

for ensuring that they're supporting you know, that our

country and in regards to food insecurity, right. So Jen, you

is a partner of theirs and and Jen you've had suggested to

bushes to get involved with with an esports reach next generation

of consumers

So if you think about bushes, bushes, baked beans, they've

been around for over 200 years, they're a family owned company,

they're owned by the Bush's brothers, for a brand like that

to first of all understand that their main consumer, their lead

consumer is kind of aging out. And really kind of being

interested in taking a risk and esports is just kind of awesome.

And what the conversations really led to is understanding

what success looked like for bushes, really from a deep

marketing strategy. So with bushes, one of the big ways that

they can find success as an organization where they have

like bigger deals is working with colleges and universities,

Dylan Pomeroy and I from version one, we took a look at

collegiate Rocket League. And we cross referenced it with the

colleges and universities that Bush's was really kind of

wanting to create conversation with and where they could

potentially find success. So we were looking for colleges and

universities from them that were that their food kitchens. So

like when you go to get get your meals when you live in a dorm

where those were independently owned. And that pushes would

have a greater success of being able to build relationships and

be able to monetize those relationships and be cross

referenced it with the team at EA fuse and collegiate Rocket

League. And we did we did two things. We did an invitational

with the schools that we identified. But then we kind of

doubled down with collegiate Rocket League and their summer

series to integrate bushes and really introduce bushes to the

to the holistic esports market through Rocket League. So this

is a really cool activation. It's a it's just a really fun

brand. It was received very, very well within the space is to

me, that is probably my favorite, because it's just so

different from what you normally would see within our space. It's

kind of like a really, you know, like, it's so unexpected. I love

that. They're going beyond the really good commercials that I

always remember with the golden retriever that oh my god.

Dude, the dog. So cute. Also a good one. Yeah. Very iconic,

especially in the US. So you wear so many hats from running

happy warrior to managing unobserved to running a podcast,

which, by the way, is called the future of marketing and esports.

And I will link that in the show notes. For a lot of people. And

this includes myself, this is a very, when I was writing this

question, I was writing it for me.

But for a lot of people constantly having new directions

and things to think about can charge motivational battery. But

how do you find that balance between okay, I'm happy, I'm

engaged. I'm working 12 hour days, but I'm, I'm meeting great

people, and I'm working on really cool stuff, too. Oh, my

God, there's so much to do. I can't even think I don't sleep

anymore. What am I doing? I mean, I definitely experienced

burnout, like burnouts real. You know, remember, I started in

advertising. So when you work at an ad agency, anybody listening

to your podcast has that type of background, if you're an account

manager, or you're a producer or project manager, which I've had

all of those roles over the years, I started my career in

advertising full time at 19 years old. So I mean, I've, I'm

like, Oh, gee, workaholic, you don't go to like, it's your job.

Like, it's your one job working in advertising. But you don't

just have one client, traditionally, you're an ad

agency, you maybe have four to six clients, I have like four to

six clients that I work with, right? I'm independent. And so

it's a discipline and a balance that I've been juggling my

entire life. And even when I worked in house at the

Timberwolves, my role was very much to be the nucleus between

sales and marketing. And I had so many special projects that,

you know, you just learn how to manage those as individual

projects. Also, I can't say enough about the clients that I

work with, and the and the deep thought leadership within their

ecosystem that provides a lot of support. I have a really great

staff at women's car ball that I'm really providing direction

and they're doing at version one and rocker. I also am bringing

in some strategy and ideation and I'm, I'm taking a look at

what their team is building out for those activations. But I'm

handing that off to like, probably, I would say, you know,

Jenna Johnson, Blaze Butler, Dylan Palmeraie, some of the

some of the top partnership activations managers that are

out there. I mean, they're, I don't ever worry about handing a

client off to them. I know that it's going to be managed, it's

going to be elite. I know that process is going to be great. So

a lot of it has to do with really having smart people

around you to support you

But I do have days where it's like, I don't know what

happened, I like maybe had to go run to the grocery store and I

come home and I've got 54 emails, like over an hour, like,

oh my goodness, I have to like run through that, or my phone

does blow up quite a bit, I get a lot of text messages, I

probably get text messages from 30 to 50 different people every

single day, which seems a little bit insane. But so I would say

training in my past life training throughout my life,

coupled with just the raw ADHD nature of who I am, that allows

me to pivot from one thing to another, if I'm bored of this, I

can jump to this I can jump back.

And I'm the kind of person who really works in waves, I get

these huge spurts of high energy and I can knock a lot of things

out pretty rapidly. And I listen to my body. I'm also a single

mom. So you have to factor that in and homeschool my son so I

listen to my body, I take good care of myself, I take good care

of my skin and my nails and we have a hot tub I like to soak in

and I sleep, you know, probably eight to 10 hours every single

night sleep for me is my number one that's my golden I'm also a

very big sleeper like I have always prioritize sleep. I've

always tried to get enough sleep, I haven't a nine hour a

night kind of gal and I know that about myself. So if that

means doing less of something else, it's gonna happen because

I need my sleep. So I totally get that. In speaking of kind of

having this team around you I want to talk more about women's

car ball and what that's been like. So tell me how you found

that position and how it is you know versus running happy

warrior where you're a little bit more on your own,

technically versus being with women's Karbala, which is your

CEO of of that organization. So what has it been like to go from

being working for yourself for so many years to working with?

actual legal team, first of all, and secondly, just tell me all

about women's curveball? Yeah. Yeah, women's curveball. We're

starting our fifth season, but it really is kind of like its

very first season because everything is changed. It's new.

It started as a grassroots community effort of women who

play Rocket League who wanted a safe place to play together and

compete together. What has happened over the past few years

is it's been a league that's run about three months a year. Women

have signed up created their own teams played together. That's

kind of Bennett the viewership has been very high. Some of the

top talented esports athletes compete in the league. The

viewership is amazing. Like it's absolutely phenomenal

viewership. People are really love to watch this. And it's

it's you know, Rocket League is cars playing soccer, for those

who are not familiar with Rocket League. It's very consumable.

It's absolutely the most watchable video game. You don't

need audio on to understand it. It's bright, it's fun, it's

colorful. With the audio on it's even better, but I mean, you

don't need it. You don't need it to understand the game. There's

a lot of very complex esports out there, where it's like what

is happening. I don't understand the point of the game. This one

you definitely understand the point of the game. I can second

that too. I love I love watching Rocket League. It's very fun.

And it's fun to watch in groups of people. It's fun to go to

like a Rocket League watch party and watch in groups. It's really

it's really cool. It's fun to cheer for. So Mark Josie, who is

one of the owners of the Kansas City pioneers. He's an

entrepreneur. He owns other companies as well. He was on my

podcast, maybe a year ago, we did a recording. He reached out

to me and said hey, there's an opportunity with women's at the

time it was called women's car ball championship league. And so

he said we've got this thing with women's Carvel championship

League. He had purchased it along with Jeremy Terman. So

it's separate from the Kansas City pioneers but the same

ownership group owns women's Carvel it was at threat of not

being able to exist anymore, the founder and kind of creator of

that league taking a full time position, and couldn't really do

both at the same time. So they they took it on. And you know,

they they realized that a bunch of men aren't necessarily going

to move the needle forward and have authenticity trying to

bring it to market. Right. And so as I was kind of taking a

look at historically what had happened with the league and

where they were wanting to go, it was so grassroots that it was

like okay, this is a really cool thing that's been built, but

it's not on a foundation. It's not a business yet. So you know,

as we were having the conversation I was like, well, a

general manager doesn't really because that was the role they

were looking to fill. I was like of general manager doesn't

really makes sense for me because I am not an esports

tournament organizer. I've never been a general manager. I

wouldn't vet out players. I don't know how to do all those

things. I think the value that I bring is on

The business side. And I can't necessarily fill the shoes of

coke who was running it previously, we'll need to hire

for that. But if you want me on, I'll do all the things that

aren't being done, right, I'll build a foundation, I'll make it

a company and make it a business, I'll build out a merch

line, we'll rebrand, we will, you know, start having

conversations with the publisher on what success looks like for

them. And we'll rebuild the model out build a website, there

wasn't a website, there's, we're we're kind of in beta of

building that on the back end. So I've really been taking on a

role that didn't necessarily exist with this league before.

It's a lot of pressure. It's, it's what keeps me up at night

is like, there's so many people who say they support women in

gaming, but they support it by saying they support it. We need

support through people who want to invest in it and want to

invest in in the growth of it through brand dollars through

contributing towards a prize pool. So these girls get paid,

and through the pro teams to start signing women's car ball

teams so that the players are getting paid to participate and

getting the proper coaching and training that they need. So

we've had a quite a few huge brand heroes Genji huge brand

here. Okay, come in, they signed a team, the mobile one team

misfits, gaming, signed a team and luminosity signed a team

under enthusiast gaming. So we have three major orgs, who

really believe in the vision, and I'm just so gassed, that

they're that they're all in and supporting us. Because everyone

in this industry who wants to see the needle move forward. For

women in gaming, it's all of our responsibilities to do the work

to get there and to and to come together and build it together.

So I don't take a salary. I'm not making any money. I've been

really working hard to make this. Because when I was young,

being somebody who loves sports, and who would, you know, sit

with my dad and curl up on the couch with Dino, our cat, and

watch football on Sundays. And on Monday nights. And I'm

wrestling on Saturday mornings, like, I remember thinking, I

wish I could do that when I'd look at a broadcast desk or a

sideline reporter. But I really I didn't never said it out loud.

But like internally, I was like, Oh, I wish girls could do that.

I wish girls could have that job. I wish girls could do this.

I want my daughter and hopefully future granddaughters down the

road, to not have to wish for something when it comes to

esports and gaming. And if I can invest my time and energy to

build it for them, and I have purpose. So makes everything

else that I do worth it. I love that. And I couldn't agree more.

I mean, that was you're right, like it is it is on us to kind

of do the work and, and to get out there and it's on. It's on

other people to be listening. And so I will say that was the

reason for the whole genesis of this podcast, which has truly

paid off. And I was so I'm so I feel so grateful to have the

person who owns holodeck media, supporting that vision and

really behind it. And the one who said we need to do something

for women in this space, like, go through the podcast, what do

you want to hear about? What thing is, if if Erin Andrews

would have been around when I was, you know, nine and 10 years

old, I probably would have been in pro sports in a totally

different way. Right? Because I would have seen someone that I

could identify with that looks like me doing something tangible

and cool. And I think what is really powerful about your

podcast is you're creating a line of sight for other women

and girls to really hear the voices of women leaders and be

able to envision themselves there someday or adjacent to in

some way. Right? Well, I appreciate that so much. And

that was the reason for it. You know, and like you said how

carbaugh gives you gives you purpose. That's definitely how I

feel about this. That's That's what keeps me going. And I love

that you also love broadcast journalism. I was reflecting

back not too long ago, and I realized that I that was

actually my dream job. When I was in middle school. It's like,

I want to be a sports journalist. And that didn't wind

up working out. I wound up somehow being in data science.

So that's a story for another time.

But I was reflecting on that probably about six months ago.

And I thought, Well, how did you podcast? It's kind of like that,

you know? That's like, I like that we both have that outlet

for that thing that we always wanted to do. I mean long term,

I'd love to have like a radio that basically turned my podcast

into a radio show and just talk to people like every day about

work going on day to day in the space industry. But five years

maybe you never know. And speaking of kind of getting

women into the industry and also the

mission behind Karbala, one of the things that you mentioned

was that it was started so that women could play without having

to deal with toxicity without having to deal with some of the

negatives. And I've gone through the statistics several times on

the show. So I'm not I'm not going to do that again. But

let's talk about forward facing stuff. You had mentioned that

you wish that there was better resources out there. What do you

think those resources would look like? There's definitely

grassroots efforts for women. Right, that are that exist? I

will say the barriers, there's a number of barriers that are very

fixable, right. Number one, what has happened over the years is

women have kind of been boxed out of the industry. It happens

in traditional sports as well. I mean, you post a job. And a lot

of times, the people who hear about it are within the network

of people who already work there. So if it's heavily male

dominated, they're going to be sharing that with their friends

who are going to be applying and women get boxed out in that way.

Also, if women do apply in esports, in gaming, and this is

gaming holistically, the you know, 300, and whatever, at some

billion dollar industry of gaming, that is also very male

dominated, because women historically haven't been

working in that space, their resumes don't appear on paper to

stack up. But the skills do so I think, for any men listening,

and you're hiring, or any hiring managers look for the

transferable skills that are relevant. So it might be from

another industry like for me in traditional sports, my marketing

background was a very easily transferable skill that can be

applied to the sales of esports and gaming, right? So that's one

where brands own some responsibility here is because

the industry's numbers are so focused on the stereotype of

boys and men gamers. A lot of times the brand and marketing

efforts are talking to that specific audience and not

talking to girls and women. There's responsibility on game

developers to continue to move the needle forward on creating

more protagonists, characters, and script writers within the

video games to write healthy women characters and women

characters that are well rounded that aren't just healers, we

need more badass women characters in the in the space

as well. It's the role of publishers, I will say until it

is I will say and like every single interview, I firmly

believe it is the role of publishers to make women's

esports initiatives foundational pillars of everything that they

do. valorant is a great example. Thank you Riot Games, for making

women in gaming a foundational pillar of valorant. I think that

there's a lot of other publishers who should follow

suit, and be very intentional with that. Because there's a lot

of money being poured into the collegiate scene. But women are

also being boxed out of the collegiate scene, we could go on

and on. Those are big ones. I mean, I think those are kind of

like the heavy hitters organizations hiring. I know I

talk a lot about how great version one is, they really have

done a great job of creating trade. Yeah.

It's hard not to talk about that one. It's true.

You know, so props to Brett diamond for coming on and having

the second and third hire within that organization. Both women,

they have so many, the majority of their staff are women. They

have more women executives, C suite executives on their staff

and any other esports organization probably in the

world. They have huge programs with their visionaries community

program of creating safe places for women globally to be able to

compete and play at an amateur fun level together. They've

hosted women of the EA arena with EA fuse. They're huge

supporters of community. They're huge supporters of the game

hers. They put their money where their mouth is. Yeah, that

organization. I couldn't be more proud to partner with an org

like version one truly, they do they do it right. And I think

that if anybody is like, man, we really need to do more for women

and gaming. And they have a they have version X. They're all

women's valorant team. Brett diamond is the definitely the

kindest, most approachable CEO out there. So if there's people

who are like, hey, I want to learn from this guy, how we can,

you know, follow that model. It's just in his DNA. It's the

organization he wanted to build. I don't even think he maps it

out as a women initiative. It just is organically how they've

built that space out is just as apt and that's and that's a

tribute to the Vikings as well. The Vikings is a pretty, pretty

great NFL organization to Spoken like a true Minnesota. I don't

know what the word is for that.

No, I, everything you're saying is absolutely right.

Geographical bias aside, I know that organization is doing

incredible. And I'll tell you as a pro org, when you build out

these initiatives, the brands are going to come because my

inbox is flooded with brands, and I have a handful of things I

can point them to, there's only a handful of of initiatives out

there right now that are centered around women in this

space, and brands want it bad. So build it, that Yeah, yeah, do

it. I want to actually end in a different direction than I

thought I was gonna end it. But that's okay. Are you thinking

about the next generation of gaming? So let me back up. The

reason why I'm asking this is because we I talked a lot about

valorant. On the show, and about what Riot has done with

valorant. I think it's a lot easier to build something from

the ground up than it is to go back and change the culture of

League of Legends that's been developing for 10 years. So

props to riot for baking it into their first major release after

league of legends that this was going to be much different. I

think that that it shows a huge amount of initiative from one of

the largest AAA developers. So that and obviously, I'm bringing

that up because that's, you know, a next that's like that

valorant was the next thing for Riot. And I'm looking at the

gaming industry as a whole. The next thing is like more AR VR

games, more blockchain games more more things in the

metaverse space. Are you kind of excited at the prospect of maybe

this is new, and we can build it differently? Or are you maybe

not thinking about that yet? Which is also fine. But do you

think there's like an opportunity in that space to do

like what Riot did with valorant? But on a much bigger

scale, like industry wide basically? Well, I'll say in

terms of and I'll try to make be as concise as possible, because

I know we're getting close to time. Yes. And right is like the

answer. So in a perfect world, we wouldn't need to create

separate women's initiatives in this industry, because there's

no advantage on either genders part to be an elite gamer. And

we're very equally matched in terms of capabilities. And Eric

Anderson spoke with. We spoke together in Abu Dhabi recently

about women's initiatives. And he said something really

interesting, which just got my wheels turning for those of you

who don't know who Eric is, he is the head of esports at FaZe

Clan, which is kind of a big deal. You know, he's spoke about

games for girls, when they're eight to 14 years old. What's

marketed to them isn't necessarily the games that are

esports, right now that are popular, so less girls are

playing those, but that's the age that you're really getting

good, and you can kind of get into being signed. So boys are

not dropping off. They're playing games like Call of Duty

and valorant and Rocket League at a much younger age, we need

to promote these games to girls a little bit better. And we need

to ensure that we're creating equitable spaces for younger

girls that younger and younger to get into these types of games

and be competitive, it's harder to just say, we're going to just

sign a bunch of these women's car ballplayers to RLCS. Right?

You, you mentioned toxicity, and that's definitely still very

prevalent in the space. So while we're creating safe spaces for

women, and I'm working really hard to build safe places for

women, the goal is to get the eyeballs on these women by the

big franchise pro teams so that they can get signed, I go back

and forth with people who are like, well, what if RLCS steals

one of your top girls on one of your top teams? Awesome. Then I

won, then I win. And I'll find another we'll get more talent

coming in in the door. In regards to where the metaverse

is going, I've had some conversations about this

recently to about like, it would be interesting to have

genderless gaming avatars and really kind of see where

competition levels out. That would be really interesting

within the space. I think what we already know about how women

game is many of them who are wanting to compete sometimes

oftentimes hide their gender anyways. Because if they are,

you know, exposing their gender, they will be maybe lobby kicked

out or ganged up on and killed.

There's a lot of issues there. Gamer safer is a really great

resource for anybody who wants to learn about some of the

toxicity in the space and tactics that are being used. And

many of them are being used to kind of hijack some of the

women's initiatives. So we'll have people create fake accounts

and pretend we've got a pretty strict verification process with

our league. Yeah, I think the metaverse is going to be really

interesting, I think. I think we're

gonna be able to create more safe, verified spaces and be

able to kind of track people who are taking advantage of or being

toxic towards individuals. Because when you're in the

metaverse and and you know, the way that the blockchain works

is, you're not going to really be able to pretend or have all

of these different, you know, accounts or whatever. Yeah, I

like that point, because it's a little bit difficult to explain,

because it's like your data is actually more, it's actually

safer. And there's more privacy involved. But at the same time,

you're right, like, the actions that you do are still tied to

you. So if there's one particular account that's

causing a lot of ruckus, you may not know who they are, but it's

very easy to find those transactions and those movements

on that account. Yeah. So it's like it's, yeah, it's weird,

because it's more private, but more transparent to at the same

time, yeah, the accountability is there because you're not

going to be able to go in and have like 20 Metaverse type of

is that's not how, why it's being built. You know, it's

really like I just bought a luxury item like that is tied to

blockchain. So if I ever sold it, then it'll be registered.

And they'll know that it's an authentic item. There's, you

know, it's just interesting, the way that the world is, is

evolving. So, I mean, in summary, separate but equal

doesn't necessarily work here. It's it is kind of a bandaid ish

approach, I guess, and the moment but we do need safe

places for women to compete in game and hone in on skills

together, we need more strong male allies, being someone who

has a 16 year old son and who games a lot, probably 10 hours a

day, you know, I talk to him a lot about being a strong ally,

like you would never, you know, my son would say he would never

act in that way. But not acting in that way does not equate to

standing up for. So we need more people to stand up against that

type of hate. And I mean, I can see it with like, industry

executives with what's been recently happening with a woman

streamer whose husband was very abusive, and she came out and

released content around that. And some, some men in our

industry that are industry executives, some of their

comments on some of Jake, Lucky's LinkedIn posts are so

deplorable. I've been like biting my tongue on calling them

out. It's like, I just don't understand why a man would think

a woman would do that for content or do that for

attention. And it still is happening with grown men in

leadership positions within our industry. It's just blows my

mind what woman at any age wants to come forward and and admit

they're being abused. And like no one do that for attention.

It's the most, that's not fun. I don't know, I don't know what

people people always think that there's some monetary value to

that. And like nobody gets money from outing an abuser, there's

no like secret fund to pay you if you identify someone who's

harassing you, especially if you're if you are someone who

has any type of public persona, because as a woman who is making

their own money or making money and in business, whether there

are a streamer, you know, any type of content creator on

social or working in business, you want to be looked at as a

business woman, and when you have to be transparent about

being abused. It's a very, it's a very embarrassing, degrading

type of a of a thing to voice. It's not an easy thing to voice.

It is you feel very, you feel very weak. And you feel, you

know, it is just an embarrassing thing. I mean, I can't imagine

anyone ever doing that for anything other than trying to

pull themselves out of that type of a situation. So

yeah, I think I think we need better allies of men, at every

layer from young boys that are my son's age, and, you know,

high school, just getting in high school, all the way up

through senior executives within the space to really, first of

all, believe women, and try to understand them and listen to

them without judgment. And then second of all, you know, create

those safe spaces and help support those spaces. Couldn't

agree more. I want to wrap up on that note, I'm going to do a

quick summary of what we talked about. Before we get into the

very last question. We began with kind of your journey as a

brand and marketing expert, and how you really tried to avoid

activations that are just a logo slap, you're looking to bring

actual value to brands need to build out activations that

resonate with fans which requires a deep understanding of

the client and the brand. In traditional sports. It's easier

for brands to just attach themselves but gaming audiences

are more

Interested in data privacy, they're a little bit more

sophisticated when it comes to tech. So they're looking more

for brands to come alongside them and have a conversation

rather than just talking at them. We talked about brands who

are getting into esports. And if they aren't intrigued or excited

or curious and instead defensive, they're not worth the

time. There's lots of brands out there that are and for you, it's

not the fear of missing out, it's the cost of missing out. So

brands that that aren't on board to turn that around real quick.

We talked a lot about women's carbaugh, which started as a

place for women to play without toxicity, and has been a success

in terms of viewership. That's been Hi. I know that you

mentioned that the league was facing some difficulty due to it

being kind of so grassroots, but that you were able to come on

board, start building that foundation and start getting

some of the investment from some of the big players in the

community, getting Genji and misfits and luminosity under

enthusiast have signed teams. And it's all of our

responsibility to actually do the work to get women in gaming

the investment and support that it needs. We ended with a big

discussion on how to get more women in this space. There are

obviously so many issues, but some of the heavy hitters, you

pointed out were that hiring managers need to look for

transferable skills that can work in esports and gaming

rather than direct experience. brand and marketing efforts need

to talk to girls and women much more than what they do. Game

developers and script writers should be empowered excited

encouraged to write strong female characters, and of all

types. And publishers should make women's esports initiatives

a pillar from the beginning, we ended on talking about kind of

the future a little bit about what's happening now. But we

need to be able to create more equitable spaces for girls to

get into gaming younger and younger. In the metaverse that

might actually happen through things like genderless gaming

avatars, and pure pure skill based competition where there's

maybe less of that look sound feel of men versus women

players, we may be able to to also create more safe and

verified spaces in the metaverse because of the built in

transparency. But all of this all along still requires buy in

from male allies in particular, and for men to be educated on a

lot of the issues within the industry, because a lot of them

still have the very wrong idea, which is unfortunate. With that

being said, we're gonna end with a segment that I like to do at

the end of every podcast, this is called a moment of

reflection, it's just a chance for you to look back at your

career. And I always like to ask my guests, what is one thing you

would like to tell your younger self about getting into the

gaming industry and being successful, it's kind of funny,

because if I was talking to my younger self about working in

gaming, my younger self would be like, I'm not going to do that.

Because it wasn't like on my map, um, I am a lover of

learning and leaning into innovation. So I think for for

me, my younger self, I would have never thought I would have

left traditional sports, I think I would have probably died on a

basketball court in my like, if I talked to myself 20 years ago,

I would have, I can't believe you're a basketball player, I

had no idea. Oh, we have so many things to talk about. out there.

So, um, I mean, I really have a deep understanding of the

business of basketball, and I really love basketball. And

however esports when I was introduced to it, I just got a

fire in my belly. And and now I'm learning a lot about other

emerging technology. Sheryl Sandberg once was asked where

she would see herself in five years. And she said, I can't

tell you where I would see myself in five years because it

hasn't been invented yet. And that's kind of now my mantra.

Thank you Sheryl Sandberg for putting things so eloquently for

me because that is really been ethos without words, for my

career is really looking to, you know, for me early in my career,

it was web one. And I remember having conversations with people

about getting a website and they were like, I'm in the Yellow

Pages. I have a full period out I don't need you know, website,

goofy young whippersnapper, right? Like, I was like, you

know, and then social media like was a new thing. And I like

literally rode the digital wave and the digital wave and the

digital wave and digital is the future. And the metaverse is

probably the future so we'll see kind of where things go. But I

would say what I would want to tell my younger self is to

continue to take risk to continue to believe in myself to

continue to follow up puts a fire in my belly and to you

know, if somebody isn't all in on me or doesn't see my value. I

wish I would have quit sooner or a couple of other things that

I've done in the past I would I wish I would have just quit

sooner when I've worked for people who don't get my passion

or don't really understand me what I want it where I'm where

I'm thinking next. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on.

Where can people find you follow you as questions follow up.

Listen to your podcast. Yeah, um, plug everything. LinkedIn.

Rebecca R EB e CCA ello en je awar Llonga

On Twitter, I'm on Instagram, which is I mean, it's a blend of

my whole life. So if you like fishing then dogs and hiking and

esports then my Instagram is for you. That's Rebecca underscore

Llonga. Yeah, that's me. That's where you can find me.

Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on. For all the

listeners. Don't forget to leave the five star ratings and

reviews they mean so much to me. Be sure to check out other

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and Lindsey pass and you can catch me Wednesday afternoons on

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