In this episode of 'Doing Divorce Different,' Lesa welcomes financial expert Victoria Kirilloff, who shares her personal journey of escaping an abusive relationship and provides in-depth advice on maximizing spousal support during divorce. The discussion aims to empower women by addressing the importance of financial independence, understanding trauma bonds, and the value of proper financial planning during significant life transitions. Victoria also touches on the use of unique techniques like isochronic tones for personal healing and the critical role of building a supportive network.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:18 Victoria's Personal Journey

06:31 Understanding Trauma Bonds

11:07 Breaking Free and Seeking Help

21:56 Maximizing Spousal Support

33:05 Services and Closing Remarks

Victoria Kirilloff, CDFA®, NCPM®, CDS®, was at a crossroads in a decade-long, financially entangled relationship that had turned toxic. To find her way out, she leveraged her background in financial analysis, creating the first Global Settlement Proposal and divorce report. This helped her and her partner reach a peaceful separation, sparking an idea: she could help others navigate divorce with financial clarity and empowerment.

Victoria went on to found Divorce Analytics, a firm dedicated to making the financial side of divorce transparent and productive. By focusing on financial facts, she transforms divorce from a destructive process into one of empowerment.

Victoria has also released a 9-part Divorce Planning Kit, available at DivorceAnalytics.com/shop. Along with her many financial licenses, she’s a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst®, Certified Divorce Specialist®, and Nationally Certified Professional Mediator®.

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Welcome listeners.

2

I am really excited about today.

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It's been a long time coming, Victoria.

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I've got Victoria Curloff here today,

and she was on my podcast years ago.

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Now it was years ago, believe it or

not, but I'm so excited to talk to

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Victoria again, because we had such a

good conversation about finances and

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divorce and she's been through it.

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And she's got a great financial mind.

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And what I want my listeners to know

is we're going to dig a little bit

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deeper into some financial things

that will help women become more

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financially savvy on Saddle Up Live.

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So go there and listen, that's

going to be different information.

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But today on Doing Divorce

Different, we're really going

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to talk about Maximizing spousal

support because a lot of my clients

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and Victoria's as well are happy.

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And that's a, it's a fear and we

don't want people to be afraid, right?

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We want to empower women.

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So Victoria is here to

help us through this.

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Victoria, Welcome, and

thank you for being here.

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Thank you so much for having me, Lisa.

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It is just a wonderful experience

to be on your show, and I'm excited

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to share more of what I know.

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Awesome.

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Well, I'm excited.

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Okay, so let's start out with, what led

you to help people during these, you

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know, transitions, life transitions?

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with their finances.

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Now, my understanding is you didn't go

through a divorce, but it was almost more

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difficult because it was someone that you

were with and you had a business together.

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So it was kind of like a divorce.

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But maybe even a little trickier.

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Well, we were together for 10 years and

it was the first relationship, really the

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first adult relationship I had, and he

was integrated into my family business.

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We had purchased a house together, we had

shared assets, and it was very complicated

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because he had a personality disorder.

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And so doing simple things

were so much more difficult.

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Um, and it wasn't until there was

a domestic violence incident that

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I realized that, man, his, his pack

of dillos were so much more, um,

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greater than what I could handle.

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And so I had to make the

choice to choose myself and.

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It was the hardest thing I ever did,

even though he did threaten my life.

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And I realized the only way to deal

with him and to extract myself as

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peacefully as possible was to produce

a divorce financial analysis report.

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So I began, um, Um, really outlining

all of the different cash flow changes.

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Um, one of the biggest things everyone

is going to have to determine is where

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they are going to live post divorce.

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For us, we had our shared house.

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I realized that it was going

to be a huge financial burden.

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I didn't actually want to keep the home,

even though that's initially what I

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thought, because after I looked at all

of the expenses, it was clearer to me.

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It was going to be an albatross

around my neck, and I was

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Building my divorce business.

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And I wanted to throw everything

that I had into rebuilding

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my life after Voldemort.

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So after looking at the numbers,

I also understood the degree of

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his alcoholism and his drug use.

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Um, it was very easy for him to say,

Hey, I'm working late or whatever it

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was, whatever excuse he wanted to use.

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Um, when he was out spending his

money on wine, woman, and song.

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And I, being the naive, loving partner

that I was, wanted to believe him.

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And it was only when I had the raw

documentation in front of me that I

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was forced to reconcile who I had, um,

created in my mind and who the man that

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I was actually sleeping next to was.

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Okay.

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I just have to jump in here, Victoria,

because I, you know, you're like my

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horse friend, you're my, and you know,

like we share that, that love in common.

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I had no idea you went through that.

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No.

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And so what I want to say is thank

you so much for sharing it because.

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That's probably not easy to share.

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I never really thought I would be on

the internet talking about the horrible

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things that happened to me, Lisa.

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But isn't it amazing how

that's how you help people?

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That's how you help people.

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And I think the thing that I

really love is that you talked

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about how hard it was to leave.

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And that's how, you know, sometimes

people think that's hard to understand.

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But that's true and that's real.

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And that's how you felt.

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And so regardless of whether you're

getting financial facts from this podcast,

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you can have the hope that if you're in

a situation like that, you can get help.

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And there's an other side and

there's great opportunities.

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That's what you're, that's what

you're showing me right now.

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You're strong, beautiful, vibrant woman.

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And look at you.

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You turned around your light.

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So I just have to applaud you.

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And I had to point that out.

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Thank you.

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Um, I, that really means a lot to me

because I, I think a lot of us don't

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understand how much we sacrifice along

the way with these relationships.

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And maybe you're the listeners aren't in

a high conflict relationship like I was.

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But regardless, if the relationship is

not in alignment with who you are, you're

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going to be losing parts of yourself.

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And really, I like to view divorce.

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As the opportunity to become

your most authentic version.

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And I had the picturesque life.

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I had the beautiful home.

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Voldemort was good looking and we took

beautiful Christmas photos, but that

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was it, you know, the, the photos.

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were so, um, inaccurate because

I was miserable on the inside.

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And I, you know, I am a successful woman.

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I take no prisoners of business, but

that's not who I am in my personal life.

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And I really feel for people who

are trying to lead these abusive

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situations, because it is so hard

to overcome your brain, essentially.

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Yeah.

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And I don't think a lot of people

are aware that But there's something

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called a trauma bond that occurs.

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It's also known as Stockholm syndrome.

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Um, the most famous case I believe

was with Patricia Hearst where she

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was abducted by her kidnappers.

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You know, she was the heir to

the Hearst newspaper dynasty.

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Um, she is abducted and then I

think a year or whatever later she

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pops up on closed circuit camera.

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Robbing a bank in Europe and it is, you

know, the conversation was, well, how

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did this sweet little innocent woman end

up, you know, liking her captors and it

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is through my, you know, research that

it is through the trauma bond that we

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start to actually, um, ingratiate in

ourselves to these negative relationships

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in our lives in order to survive.

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And so as a result, um, not to go

too far into the weeds, but your

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brain is one of your biggest assets.

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And it can, and generally is

the reason why you're staying

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stuck in a negative situation.

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So for me, I tried to leave Voldemort

many times, you know, after the domestic

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violence incident where he strangled me,

it took me another two or three years to

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get all of my ducks in order to leave him.

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You know, I, um, Knew

that I could not stay.

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I knew that it was going to either be him

or me and I don't look good in orange.

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I had to start being very

mathematical and exacting and how

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I was handling our relationship.

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Um, I loved him with all

of my heart and it was.

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Challenging because I had this person

that was abusing me and physically, you

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know, assaulting me, but then he had

the love bombing side and, you know, he

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would come back and shower me in gifts.

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And the highs were so high.

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It wasn't until I got out.

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I realized that he essentially

had hijacked my brain and I.

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Formed essentially an addiction to that

fluctuation in hormones and the highs when

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you're being love bombed by a narcissist.

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I mean, it's truly one of the most

intoxicating relationships that you

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can have because it's so extreme.

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Um, but there's the flip side, right?

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The downhill aspect of it where,

um, you know, the cycle of abuse.

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works on that teeter totter model, right?

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The high highs and then the low lows.

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And then when you are stuck in the

cycle, you know, if you're in a low,

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you just need to essentially pop

the pimple, unfortunately, and have

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the domestic violence event, because

after that, it's going to be good.

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You know, if you can just get through

his blow up health of emotionally

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regulate, you can get back to

the love bombing phase and it is.

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a horrible trap that we get

essentially sucked into.

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And because our brains are

designed to survive, they're not

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designed to make us happy, right?

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It's just this recent phenomenon that

we're all living in a civilized society.

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Um, and it's through my own, I guess,

thought process that I believe women,

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especially, are predispossessed for

trauma bonding, because if you go

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back, let's say, I don't know, 500,

600, 700, who knows, back until when

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human beings were living in huts,

you know, killing each other, it

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was very common for, unfortunately,

women to be the spoils of war.

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So what would happen is that our, the men

in our village would have to go defend And

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sometimes die, uh, against a rival tribe.

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And then that rival tribe would

take the women as the spoils of war.

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And unfortunately we would be

forced to reproduce with the

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men that killed our husbands.

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And thank God we don't live that

way now, but it is my belief that we

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developed the trauma bonding system as

a mechanism for our evolutionary purpose

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to keep us safe, you, you know, there's

no way to get out of that situation.

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Um, you know, staying with the

herd is always going to be better

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than trying to survive on your own.

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So you have to become

psychologically maladaptive.

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Fast forward to now, this biological

framework is the perfect way for

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an abuser to keep you trapped.

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Yeah.

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So it's through essentially, you know,

understanding how the mind works,

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that you need to forgive yourself if

you're trying to leave it, this is

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not something that happens overnight.

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Um, my relationship with Voldemort

started becoming pretty abusive.

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I would say like three years in, and

I stayed with him another seven and

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you just have to give yourself grace.

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and build the right divorce team.

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Um, so you can move from that

place of fear and turn it into a

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thriving foundation because the

rest of your life is ahead of you.

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Yeah.

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Oh my gosh.

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Okay.

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This was not at all what I thought

this is going to have a different

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title than I anticipated, but I,

I can't like jump from this yet.

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I have to ask.

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So for women who are going

through this, how do you wake up?

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You know, you know how you were saying

you're kind of stuck in that trauma bond

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and maybe this is, maybe this is something

I need to research or there's someone I

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could have on, but how do you wake up?

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And I know you said, have great.

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And I love that because we

got to be kind to ourselves.

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Yeah.

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But for those women out there who maybe

don't even realize what's happening,

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it starts with having awareness.

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Okay.

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I mean, that's the very first step,

because for me, I thought that, well, I

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was also conditioned to believe that I

could, I was responsible for Voldemort's

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emotions and that came at the cost of me

being completely emotionally disconnected.

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From the, the emotional consequences of

his actions because he was so great and

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it took me some time to realize that

I actually have a right to an opinion.

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I actually have the right to my feelings.

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Um, but that was a very slow learning

process and it really began for me.

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It might sound kind of out there, but

our brains run on harmonic frequencies

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and there are certain tones that you

can play to induce different states.

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It's, they're called isochronic

tones and binaural beats.

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And so, um, I guess I stumbled

across a YouTube video, I think

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when I was about 25 or 26 years old.

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And it was, um, I played 500 or

732 Hertz and the, that hurts.

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Um, that wavelength is designed

for positive transformation.

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And I listened to it every single night

as I slept for eight, uh, eight hours.

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And then one morning, I kid

you not, I woke up and I'm

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just like, I am fricking done.

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I do not care.

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And it was like, My brain

finally kind of woke up.

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Um, and so that's one place you can

begin, but I then enlisted the help of

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my therapists and really trying to move

from a place of being Voldemort's mom To

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then being my own mother and realizing

that he is a troubled soul and, you know,

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I'm not here to control anybody else.

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The only thing I can do is

to protect myself and take

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control over my own actions.

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So I had to slowly unravel my feelings

of responsibility and don't get me wrong.

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The guilt runs deep,

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but having, having people that

have been through this, in your

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corner is the most important thing.

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Um, most of us, we don't feel comfortable

sharing with our friends, the things

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that go on behind closed doors.

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I know I certainly wasn't.

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I didn't want to tell people, you

know, um, there was one incident

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where there was a mirror on the back

of the door and Voldemort's favorite

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thing was to break down doors.

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And so I was hiding from him in the

bathroom and he breaks the door down

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and the mirror shatters all over me.

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And it was, So loud that our

neighbors heard make him over.

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And, you know, this would have been an

opportunity for me to reach out and ask

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for help, but it was so the shame and

the guilt that I had for being in this

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situation, but then I also felt like they

were going to view me differently because,

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you know, I'm this big bad ass right.

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And here, look at me.

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I'm crouched in a corner trying

to clean up glass shards.

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Um, and.

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Was so hard for me to wrap my mind around.

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I didn't know how to, to

talk to anybody about it.

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So I did a lot of this myself and I

wish I would have asked for help sooner.

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And thank God that for whatever

reason I did not lose my life.

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But unfortunately I have done

this long enough to have lost

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clients to domestic violence.

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And

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the one thing I really have to

encourage everybody to do is

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To just ask sooner than later.

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Yeah.

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Everything that I have done for the

clients I have lost, we could have done

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when they were alive and protected them.

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And oftentimes people forget how dangerous

the person they're sleeping next to is.

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Yeah.

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You know?

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And.

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my situation.

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I was so good at dealing with

Voldemort until I wasn't.

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Yeah.

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And then that's when shit got scary.

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And that's when I was hiding

behind the cabinet and jumping out

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of the window to not get beaten.

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Um, that I had normalized

this along the way.

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And I had to come to terms with the

man that was strangling me, not the

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man that I had wrapped up in my mind.

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That was a loving teddy bear

that just had an anger problem.

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No, he was capable of rage filled actions.

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And the thing about strangulation

that's a little different than other

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types of violence is it's rage.

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It's, it's, it's raged induced.

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And so that essentially is

one step from killing someone.

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And, um, just getting the right people to

at least talk to, you don't have to, you

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know, do everything in one fell swoop,

but asking somebody reaching out to the

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domestic violence hotline or contacting

a high conflict divorce professional.

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Um, a good divorce coach is really worth

their weight in gold in these scenarios.

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Um, But you're not alone.

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And that's what I was so ashamed.

281

And I felt so alone that I kept

myself in this position probably

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longer than what I needed to.

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And it wasn't until that, you know,

that YouTube video that kind of

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helped me recalibrate my brain.

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But there there's help.

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You just have to be open

to accepting it and asking.

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Yeah.

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And what I love Victoria is I think

right now you're helping people.

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Because if I were in that

predicament listening to this,

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it would make me more aware.

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So women.

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Take care of yourself, grow

yourself, you're precious.

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And so I can't tell you how much

I appreciate you sharing that.

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It means the world to me and

it's going to help people.

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So God bless you for talking about it.

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You know, I actually made a promise

to God, there was that night that I

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was strangled, I was hiding behind

our dresser, trying to save my own

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skin and I just, I said, God, like,

if you could help me get out of

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this, I promise I'll help others.

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I was spared and I feel like

this is my end of the bargain.

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Um, it's not easy to talk about, but I

have to say there is so much value in

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being true to who you are and not trying

to put on a show for everyone else.

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There's so much, you know, that

a value that we put on that.

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pretty Instagram picture.

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But if you're miserable on

the inside, it doesn't matter

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what material goods you have.

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And I have to say the best thing you

could ever do for your financial future

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is getting rid of a toxic person.

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Chances are they're keeping

you in a place of, uh, of lack.

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So they have more control over you.

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Right.

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And if you are able to understand how

they're using money to manipulate you,

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you can cut them off at the knees.

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And, you know, there's a lot

that goes on to make sure that

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you're psychologically empowered.

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So you don't go running back because

I did that several times, you know?

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Yeah.

318

Well, that's good to know too,

that you ran back several times.

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And it's like, For me, it was such a

mind meld because here I am, I know I

320

need to get out, but it felt so good

when he was kind and loving and when

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he would take care of me and he knew

exactly how to manipulate my love

322

languages to get me to fall in line.

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And healing has been an amazing journey.

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And there's a lot of things that we need

to do as women to kind of recalibrate.

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But one of the easiest things to

do is actual breath, breath work.

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And so people don't realize it, but

your breath controls your vagal nerve,

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which is essentially the nerve that

runs between your brain and your heart.

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And this essentially is like, Either the

gas or the brake on your nervous system.

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And so if you go back to, um, us being

hunters and gatherers, every single

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threat was designed to kill us, right?

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And so our nervous system is adapted

to, for those survival instincts.

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Now fast forward to our civilized

society, Someone cutting you off

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evokes the same type of system

or same result in your nervous

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system as a tiger coming after you.

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And so when you're in these abusive

scenarios, you're constantly having

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your nervous system redlined.

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And you have to learn how to kind of,

Pull it back to a place of neutrality.

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So doing heart rate variability training,

which is pretty much just saying fancy

339

breath work, you know, that's one

small step you can do to help your

340

brain recalibrate and get into your

prefrontal cortex where all of your

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executive functioning remains in lies.

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Which is what you need to do

because I mean, and we were going

343

to talk about spousal support.

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Yeah, I mean, and that's probably one

thing if you're thinking about leaving.

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I mean, I think we can kind of jump

into that, you know, absolutely.

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Tell, tell, tell me a little bit.

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I mean, we don't have a ton of time,

but tell me a little bit about how

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you can maximize that support so

that that fear can be taken away.

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Away, you know, do your deep breathing.

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If you're going through something like

this right now, just be aware and listen.

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So Victoria, what, what can women do?

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So when you're dealing with any

divorce, you have to keep in mind

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that this is really a business deal.

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The beginning of the marriage, when

you submitted your certificate,

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it was the foundation and the

formulation of the marital corporation.

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Now, as a part of the divorce, you

need to go through and essentially

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do a valuation of everything you

have to divide up the property.

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But the second part of your divorce, um,

Is going to focus on the cashflow changes.

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So if you are, you know, looking

at spouse support and keep in mind,

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there's different laws in every state.

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So it's always good to consult

with an attorney in your area.

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And this is not legal advice or

financial advice, but, um, You need

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to make a mathematical analysis of all

of the different financial components.

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So when you're doing a spousal support

equation, there's essentially four things

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that you're going to be focusing on.

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And so the first thing is your

marital standard of living.

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The second is your post

divorce cost of living.

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The third is the payors

income available for support.

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And the fourth is the recipient's

earning capacity, which is also

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known as income imputation.

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So the first, um, factor,

let's talk about that.

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The marital standard of living.

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Now this, depending on what type of

legal process you're going in, it kind

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of varies how much documentation we need,

but you need essentially to establish

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how much money your family was spending

as you were married, especially if you

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were in a high net worth situation.

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because there's no context

for your specific scenario.

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So you need to explain to the court and to

your opposing party, just what your future

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looks like basing that historical income.

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So you use that marital standard of

living essentially to create a top

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line figure, and then you project

forward all of your post divorce costs.

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So one of the biggest things that's

going to change are your house, Um,

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you have to determine if you can

assume the loan or if you have to

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refinance or maybe you're going to be

downsizing and renting an apartment.

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Um, health insurance

is another major thing.

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Big deal also is your income taxes.

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A lot of people are not aware of

it, but when you're married, the

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federal government gives you the

best gift you're ever going to get.

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And that is the married tax status.

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So this is the cheapest, um, level

of income taxes that you can pay.

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Now, when you are going to your post

divorce income, you have to determine

392

if you're either going to be a single

or head of household filing status.

393

This is great.

394

If you have two kids, generally

one spouse takes each so you

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can split that tax status.

396

Otherwise, if it's just you guys,

you're going to be a single filer.

397

And I have to say that is pretty punitive.

398

I was just doing an analysis yesterday.

399

Um, the family makes, well,

the husband, he made around 15,

400

000 a month and pre divorce, he

spent 2, 300 in taxes each month.

401

Post divorce, that jumped up to 3, 400.

402

So this is a really big thing that you

have to figure out because if you don't

403

factor in your income taxes, you're going

to throw off the rest of the analysis.

404

So when it comes to the third factor,

which is the income available for

405

support, this is where it's really

helpful to have that historical

406

marital spending information.

407

Because if there's like extravagant

expenses, um, you know, oftentimes I'll

408

hear they don't have enough money for

support, but they're spending, you know,

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5, 000 at the country club every month.

410

So part of divorce means each person's

going to have to make changes.

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So the budget blueprint enables us

to really go through and show where

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there is resources, um, for support.

413

And the fourth and final step, and you

can probably speak a little bit about

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this too, Lisa, is income imputation,

which is determining the earning

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capacity, which is a big difference

between what you're earning now, um,

416

and how that's defined, but determining

the recipient's earning capacity.

417

And this can be done.

418

Either through a vocational assessment

or it can be very informal where someone

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goes and looks on like Monster or Indeed

to determine what is a reasonable range of

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income, uh, the recipient would be making.

421

So oftentimes in these situations you

have one spouse who either has not been

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in the workforce or maybe they, um, you

know, uh, have a lower paying job so

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there's more flexibility and freedom.

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And Some of the hard things about

these calculations is you have to

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determine what is pursuant based off

of the divorce and what that person

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has decided for a lifestyle change.

427

Yeah.

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And so if you, um, decide to have

a lower paying job because it gives

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you more freedom with the kids.

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But you're capable of making,

I don't know, 50, 000 more.

431

Unfortunately, if you're going through

the court system, they're going to

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use that maximized earning capacity.

433

And they're going to say,

this is a lifestyle choice.

434

If you want to, you can go make

more, you know, it doesn't matter

435

that the kids are going to have to

be taken care of by someone else.

436

That's not really a part of their

equation, but it can be a part of yours.

437

Right.

438

And I love, so all those, those

four pieces, they're all things you

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go through in a mediation process

when you're working together too.

440

And you're, you're doing it more

to learn what one party needs,

441

what one party can afford.

442

And there are really caring

people that go through divorces,

443

there are some, which is amazing.

444

And there are some that aren't.

445

And honestly, most people

are so disconnected from how

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much their lifestyle costs.

447

Like I was working on a case.

448

This guy makes a hundred thousand dollars

a month and he was giving his wife 4,

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000 in spending money and he was covering

all of the other housing expenses.

450

So it might sound a little

nuts, but in his mind.

451

He thought she should make, you know,

her spousal support should be the 4,

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000 moving forward somewhere along

the way he got, you know, his analysis

453

didn't consider all of the housing

costs that he was covering on different

454

credit cards and spending statements.

455

So he needed to be aware that actually

her lifestyle was costing 25, 000

456

a month and there was enough money

in the budget Uh, for him to afford

457

that because that was his problem.

458

He said, you know, I make nothing.

459

It's like, uh, 100, 000 a month and

you don't have any money to give her.

460

And that's what's so eyeopening

when you work together and

461

actually see what's going on.

462

And so for, just for women to know,

spousal maintenance is out there.

463

to help you.

464

And it's the longer your marriage

and the closer you are to retirement,

465

the more likely you are to get a

little bit more support to help you.

466

If you're, you know, if you're younger,

excuse me, and maybe able to start a new

467

career or do something, maybe you'll get

support while you're going to school.

468

You know, you work that out because

the court does want you to be able

469

to stand on your own eventually.

470

Mm.

471

So, and again, that's

not legal information.

472

I mean, that's legal

information, but it's not advice.

473

Exactly.

474

Well, and I think it's really

important to talk about the fact

475

that courts are moving in the

direction of rehabilitative support.

476

And so I love doing spousal support

calculations because we break everything

477

down to the economic factors and make

this like, not at all about the emotion.

478

Yes.

479

But actually, like, what is the,

the post divorce cost of living?

480

And so, generally, how rehabilitative

support works is that there's a higher

481

amount paid in the initial years.

482

Yeah.

483

And then we also develop a

plan to maximize their income.

484

So let's say they want to stay at

home for the next, I don't know,

485

three or five years as the kids

are going back to school and are

486

developing their own responsibilities.

487

And so after the, let's say five

years, it's anticipated that the wife

488

can make, um, she'll go back to work

and her income will increase 25%.

489

So what that means is his support

will then drop that 25 and she's

490

not going to be out any money

because it's being replaced.

491

So very similar to retirement.

492

Um, there's something called the

divorce spouse, social security benefit.

493

And so if you have been married over

10 years, divorced for two and are

494

62 years old, you have the option to

take up to 50 percent of your spouse's

495

benefit with no cost to them or 100

percent of yours, whatever is greater.

496

Yep.

497

And so oftentimes in a gray

divorce, which is, um, a divorce

498

that's close to retirement, so it's

part divorce and retirement plan.

499

Those economic triggers are factoring

in the other income streams from those

500

retirement accounts and social security.

501

And.

502

When you lay it out like that, I

honestly, I'm amazed at how quickly my

503

couples come to, um, like resolution.

504

It's important for the, the payor to know

that there is an end in sight, but the

505

recipient also needs to feel secure and

stable because this is a huge transition.

506

Not only are you maybe having to sell your

house and re establish everything, you

507

have to reconsider how you make money.

508

is under good circumstances.

509

We ignore it.

510

So this is a really important time to

take a step back and to know that the more

511

methodical you are in making your spells

of support, um, argument, the easier it is

512

going to be for everybody to get on board.

513

Yep.

514

Yep.

515

Okay.

516

So Victoria, we're like running out of

time, but I just, before we go, let the

517

audience know what are the services you

provide, like your little elevator pitch,

518

and then I'll put it in the show notes.

519

How can they connect with you?

520

So I am, um, my company divorce analytics.

521

com.

522

We serve clients throughout the

entire United States, preparing global

523

settlement proposals, factoring in,

um, you know, how to maximize spousal

524

support and property division proposals.

525

So you can be empowered to have the

most awesome negotiation of your

526

life and to secure a win win outcome.

527

I, you can reach out to me on the

website or shoot me an email at

528

victoria at my wealth analytics.

529

com.

530

Wonderful.

531

So listeners, if you need some

help, go to Victoria and Victoria.

532

Thank you.

533

Thank you for your heartfelt

story, for the information you're

534

sharing to help women and for this.

535

financial work that you're doing.

536

I really appreciate it.

537

Thank you so much for having me on.

538

I know that this stuff is hard to talk

about, and if it wasn't for people like

539

you that are willing to hold the space,

it would be so much harder to reach those

540

women that need to hear these words.

541

Yeah.

542

Thanks so much.

543

You take good care.

544

Thank you.