Shownotes
Today on Episode #53 Creating Healthier, Happier Workplaces w Chivon John , I talk with wellbeing strategist and advocate Chivon John about how we can practice wellness within the workplace and what employers should be considering when designing workplace wellness programs.
In this episode we discuss:
-collective care as a form of self care that is just as important
-how self compassion can support your wellness journey through the ebbs and flows
-how you can support your wellness at work even if a workplace wellness program doesn't exist
-the shocking statistic that proves employers and employees are on two different pages when it comes to workplace wellness
-why your organization may need to step up its workplace wellness efforts and take responsibility and ownership
Links:
Chivon John is a wellbeing strategist and dedicated mental health and community advocate driven by her passion to redefine success and how we view ‘wellness’. Her mission is rooted in showing individuals and organizations that true work ethic goes beyond productivity at work; it's about nurturing our collective health and wellbeing. As a speaker and educator, Chivon regularly takes the stage to share her wisdom on topics that matter. From reimagining wellness in the workplace to crafting well-being strategies for professionals and BIPOC leaders. Her insights have also been featured in esteemed media outlets including The Globe and Mail, Forbes, Fast Company and TVO’s The Thread. Beyond her work in wellness advocacy, Chivon serves on the Board of Directors for Taking It Global and is the Founder of Lightwork - a consultancy and wellness community which sheds light on the heavy weights impacting our wellbeing.
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From a Full Cup is a mental wellness education podcast that teaches women to prioritize their wellness and put themselves first, because you can’t pour from an empty cup.
I'm your host Natalie Mullin , Certified Wellness Educator, Speaker, Facilitator and Teacher. Every Thursday I release a new episode, teaching women how to dream big, take action and move the needle forward in life.
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Transcripts
[00:00:10] Chivon: Thank you so much, Natalie. I'm very excited to have this conversation with you today.
[:[00:00:39] Chivon: I think all revolves around just. A deep passion for our well being, not only our individual well being, but our collective well being. So I consider myself to be more of an advocate wellness, not an expert on wellness, but definitely someone who is on a continuous journey of learning and un learning. Uh, about what it means to be well in, in society within our individual families and our individual collectives as well, too.
[:[00:01:35] Natalie: And I love when more and more people talk about that because there can be a negative connotation. Sometimes people make it seem like, Oh, you only have to focus on one thing. But. If we have been given those passions and they are innately within us, I feel like it is our responsibility and it is a part of us honoring our own well being to pursue those different passions, those different interests, to really live a full life and to be fully fulfilled.
[:[00:02:09] Chivon: I completely agree. I think for a very long time, as you mentioned, like, we are conditioned to pick 1 thing, have 1 lane and a lot of times made to feel a sense of shame that you're kind of all over the place or that you're not sticking to 1 thing.
[:[00:03:01] Natalie: So tell me then Siobhan about your backstory. How did you get into this line of work of and even if it's different lines, they all kind of support each other. So how did you kind of get to where you are right now?
[:[00:03:18] Chivon: and I think often for a lot of folks who are very passionate about well being comes from personal stories and often personal stories of unwellness. Uh, so I, for me I navigated into the world of well being, um, whether it is from a self helping and supporting people with self care or what are definitions of self care to working with organizations and employees about workplace well being from my own experiences with struggling with my well being and my mental health.
[:[00:04:20] Chivon: So, once I had that journey of realizing that I was struggling with my well, being in my mental health, uh. Through therapy and other different modalities. Fitness was a big part of my journey in terms of the awakening of taking care of self and then realizing that wellness was much more holistic than just our physical health, but also our mental health or social well being having that opportunity to.
[:[00:05:17] Chivon: different tools, different things and like, just our own definitions of what it means to be well, because on the outside for a lot of folks, I was well, I had a great job. I was working really hard. Um, I was, you know, doing what it took to be successful, but behind the scenes, I was not well at all. And I thought that like having that awakening really showed like, I'm
[:[00:06:06] Chivon: My journey into, you know, being kind of an advocate came from, uh, my own personal journey of learning how to be an advocate for myself.
[:[00:06:30] Natalie: I'm not happy with how I feel, how things are internally, how I'm thinking. And then. When you get to a point, uh, because you know, sometimes people get to the awareness, but then do they take action? Right. And so I love that you said that you took action, you pursued therapy, you pursued different modalities, you pursued different teachers, strategies, tools that you could use in support of your wellbeing to take that action, to move you from that kind of place of what I imagine was a low period in time.
[:[00:07:24] Natalie: And so if you can get to a point where you're like, this is not okay, I need to make a change, and then you can get to a point of, I'm going to... advocate for myself, because some of the changes that need to happen are outside of yourself. Sometimes you might need to make shifts in your work environment or in your family environment with your friends, right?
[:[00:08:00] Natalie: of well be? What does that mean to you to to be Well?
[:[00:08:26] Chivon: And I think for me, well being is something that is less about 1 static state, but many different states of action and versus it just being this, like, 1 singular thing, but a way of being. A way of being of taking action and self advocating for ourselves in a way that supports us in moments where we need it most .Being okay with doing the thing that is uncomfortable, uh, knowing that it will support you well being for me is less about, um, products or things that I have to, um, consistently or perfectly engage in and more about, uh, the way that I, uh, step up for myself and show compassion to myself, check in with myself. And also, uh, for me, my definition of well, being has very much expanded to not only my own personal wellness and only thinking it from a singular perspective, but the wellness of like
[:[00:09:47] Chivon: it, it feels so disjointed to, to just focus on this singular version of wellness when there's so many other folks and different structures and systems that are unwell as well.
[:[00:10:04] Natalie: our society, especially in Western society, it's very individualistic. It's very me, me, me. Um, what's in it for me? I'm all about me. And even when we think about self care, sometimes it can be positioned as being selfish, right? And people will say, Oh, well, you're taking this time for yourself. But when I think about self care, when I think about wellness, I'm thinking that if you can fill your cup
[:[00:10:49] Natalie: So I love that idea of talking about that collective wellness and It's really important to tap into that and it's even a reminder for me because I think sometimes you can be focused on your own well being and, and it is a good reminder to check in and be like, this is me in relation to the collective.
[:[00:11:21] Chivon: So I would say it's less about the overcoming, but, um, making, I don't know if it's making peace, but I would say my mental health journey, um, I, I hesitate with saying, like, I've overcome depression or anxiety.
[:[00:12:01] Chivon: And more of, especially as someone who works in the space of well being of, it allows me to approach things from, uh, a very intentional, like, empathetic lens of, like, really understanding for folks who might also share these struggles, but also knowing that we're all going through something, whether it's like a clinical sort of diagnosis or other different things, like, it really allows me to, you know, always pause and think from that compassionate and empathetic lens, but it can be challenging at times. you know, like, you know, there's different cycles where things are great
[:[00:12:59] Chivon: Some days are better than others. Some moments or seasons are better than others, but I definitely feel it's something that, um, yeah. I'm constantly, you know, summiting. Yeah.
[:[00:13:25] Natalie: And I'm a big fan of personal development, personal development books, motivational speakers, all of that, but sometimes they... They make you feel like you're, you know, you're striving to reach this, this final aha moment. And if you don't reach that, you feel like, well, is something wrong with me? Or even if you are working towards that, you use the tools, you use the strategies, but then you just have an off period, whether it's a day, a week, a month.
[:[00:14:10] Natalie: But you have to be gracious and compassionate to yourself as you go through the ebbs and the flows. Because... Otherwise you will think of yourself as robotic and, and as if you can program yourself and we are, we can't program ourselves to respond to life in a certain way. And life is happening around us as well.
[:[00:14:48] Natalie: And so we haven't been exactly given a manual for it. So we're all just trying our best to figure it out. So I really kind of appreciate that perspective and just honoring and giving yourself self compassion to say, this is where I'm at right now, it's okay. Give yourself grace to go on.
[:[00:15:20] Natalie: And then what can I do to slowly move myself forward nonetheless. And so I, I really appreciate that. And now something I am curious about, cause I know you have experience in wellness related to the workplace and, you know. We're going to talk about it for a little bit, but some people might say right off the bat, well, their, workplace doesn't have a program for wellbeing.
[:[00:15:54] Chivon: As you said, like, a lot of folks might not even have programs in their organization. And to that, I say, um, that is okay because I think a common misconception, or 1 of the main issues when we think about well, being at work is that it's often thought about in the programmatic lens where it's like, in order to be well at work, there needs to be
[:[00:16:35] Chivon: Right? And I think that when it comes to practicing and supporting and prioritizing our well being at work, we have to make the shift that we shouldn't only think about it in terms of we need a program that we need to access into because oftentimes when it, when you think about working in an organization and depending on the place that you might work.
[:[00:17:19] Chivon: So the 1st thing I would say is that if you don't have that programming, Okay. That alone is not what you need to be able to feel the ability to have permission to support your well being at work. So when it comes to what are some things that you can do, there's a couple things. So first thing is getting in the habit of making it a priority to check in with yourself.
[:[00:18:01] Chivon: But as we know, that is not the case, um, for a lot of folks, uh, and I think oftentimes we end up in work and we're suppressing ourselves. We're suppressing our emotions, depending on where you are, you might not even feel psychologically safe. So, it becomes even more vital for us to get in the habit of checking in with ourselves.
[:[00:18:42] Chivon: So, like, taking that time to, like, really check in, especially if you're in environments where you feel like you constantly have to shrink or suppress taking those that intentional time of, like really getting to the heart of how you're feeling, because those emotions will show up in other areas, you know, in the tension and things like that.
[:[00:19:34] Chivon: So growing up with, like, sometimes, and even in our environment, even with loved ones or family members who meant well, we sort of inherit a lots of different beliefs about how we exist in workplaces where we might be overworking, you know, uh, where we might believe that taking rest is like, lazy, or, or you feel guilty about doing that.
[:[00:20:22] Chivon: And that often can also lead to feelings of burnout. We think about burnout. It's often like overwork is kind of the thing that we think about, but there's other factors as well, like being in environments where you don't have an actual alignment with the values can be extremely emotionally draining and exhausting.
[:[00:21:01] Chivon: Like what kind of boundaries can you create for yourself or have you created for yourself, um, that you feel empowered that you are able to do to be able to give you the space within your day to prioritize, to have space, to think, to rest, recover. Uh, and another thing I would say is that think about like
[:[00:21:45] Chivon: Uh, so when we think about the facts of, like, when we're working in different environments, like, what support systems do you have? What communities, like, do you have colleagues that you can confide in that are that you can make consider, you know, friends, um, all of those things play a big part in our well being.
[:[00:22:20] Natalie: I, I love that was such a great answer. And I'm going to just talk about the last one about community, because I think that right now, because of remote work, I think that we're seeing a lot of people feel even more isolated. And I think a lot of organizations, corporations, workplaces are kind of trying to figure out how can we still engage our employees?
[:[00:23:14] Natalie: Or, oh, you dropped something, let me help you. And then in that moment of you both picking up the same thing and you bumping heads and now you're laughing together. That was an opportunity for just like little human connections, even the power of touch, shaking someone's hand, giving them a hug, uh, giving them a pat on the back, you know, whatever that might be.
[:[00:23:55] Natalie: And I would really encourage people to just try, you might not be close with everyone, but even just having one colleague that you can call and be like, Hey, this is what happened today. Or I'm going through a really hard time. Can I talk to you? I I'm stressed out. I need support. I need advice. I need guidance, whatever it is, whether on the positive end or the negative.
[:[00:24:35] Natalie: Right? Because I think it's so easy to just kind of get caught up on your computer and you're just typing, typing, typing. Sometimes we're forgetting the basics of our well being, which is to eat. Yeah,
[:[00:24:52] Chivon: You know, did you get some sunlight? Did you talk to somebody be social? Like, it's we're also remembering as well that like, wellness is a holistic concept, right? So it's like your physical wellbeing, your emotional health, like, taking care of all of those different aspects is an important and I'd say as well, just to add to you mentioned as well, but the community aspect to, um, a lot of the things that I shared were definitely things that an individual can do, but when it comes as well to wellbeing at work, organizations have a
[:[00:25:40] Chivon: And if they are doing return to offices, being very intentional about, like, When people are gathering, like, it's 1 thing to say, hey, we value in person and everyone should just come back. But it's like, if everyone's coming back, but no, one is talking and we're all still on zoom calls having meetings. That's not actually supporting anyone's well being as well, too.
[:[00:26:32] Chivon: are our programs accessible? Do people have time to use them? Do they even understand? Right? So it's definitely very much a relationship and should not, um, at least from an individual who is trying to navigate things, they should never feel like they're a failure. It's or it's their fault if they're not able to access or feel like there may be struggling with things because there are so many things from an organizational perspective that So Needs to happen or should be really focused on in order for all of these things to happen as well, too.
[:[00:27:21] Natalie: So the most that they have is like a hi and bye. And so I was asking her, what is the point? And she was like, I have no clue. And so I think what you said about being intentional, if you're going to bring people back into the office, create opportunities for them to engage, which means you're going to have to maybe say in this hour.
[:[00:28:02] Chivon: Deloitte did some really great research this year that with cEOs or C suite executives and employees, which indicated that there is a very big gap between executive perception about well being and what's actually happening.
[:[00:28:30] Chivon: Actually said that that is the case for them, right? So what we're seeing is that and that obviously is a gap in terms of when it comes to focusing in on well being and well, being initiatives at work, or even how we think about it is that what is actually happening is not really reflected or even understood at the senior levels.
[:[00:29:14] Chivon: So the thought is, well, let's bring everybody back. Right. And it's sort of being made at a decision level of like, this will fix that 1 problem without actually going under underneath the layers and realizing that everybody is going to be interfacing with. This decision in a different way. And I think that speaks to when we think about wellbeing at work, is you can't take a one size fits all approach.
[:[00:29:57] Chivon: So, on the onset, hey, bring everybody back to work. We'll solve isolation. Has now created a new problem where everybody doesn't have, uh, the understanding of why we need to be in the office. Some folks don't go to the office. We have resentment from folks who are like. Remote was working or hybrid was working for me.
[:[00:30:36] Chivon: Um, so now it's like creating new issues. So it's like, hey, I spent 3 years not commuting and now I have to commute again. I've maybe moved. So I think 1 big gap is like making sure that. We're on the same page about what we're trying to solve for that. We're actually talking, you know, to the collective and not making broad assumptions and sweeping assumptions of what we think should or will support everybody.
[:[00:31:28] Chivon: And that is your, this is your bucket. Like you're responsible for the wellbeing of everybody. And that is a mistake, right? Like they can definitely. Be the stewards of maybe deciding the strategy, helping to bring everybody together. But if you don't have the support of, you know, senior executives or have well being be integrated into the structure of the organization, like, if you just keep it as.
[:[00:32:25] Chivon: It will impact things like safety. Like, do you have an environment that is safe or are we enabling toxicity? Right? Are we enabling workplace trauma to occur? And that is not able to be solved by 1 singular. HR team, if there's no bought in from the executive level that it's seen as an organizational imperative as like, less as you must make time for this versus this is how we operate.
[:[00:33:13] Chivon: Our identities have a different impact. You know, we, we interface with well being, um, in so many different ways. Like, uh, we're seeing even in the last couple of years with the pandemic with women struggling with more feelings of burnout compared to men. Um, it just. The, the fact with, like, the struggles of being a caregiver and how we've seen how it's disproportionately impacted, you know, people in the workplace, all of these different factors, like, the fact that black women don't feel psychologically safe and organizations and are leaving or have made decisions to leave certain roles that.
[:[00:34:14] Chivon: that lens is not separated and that you're taking more of an approach where you're looking at things from an inclusionary equitable and diverse lens is also very important. And the last thing I keep going, I'm just like, I think you're going last thing for real is another gap is. Creating programming or looking at wellness at work, and I think this is actually beyond work just as a whole, such an individualized approach.
[:[00:35:05] Natalie: You know, it reminds me of something. I had a friend who had gone and she had done a wellness workshop for a corporation and I think she did it multiple times and they kept bringing her back every year.
[:[00:35:35] Natalie: You don't change anything to actually help those employees. And so then you bring me back the next year and we just keep repeating this same cycle. And so it's really important that there is a responsibility on the organization's part, not just to provide the programming, but also to say, how is our work structure, the very framework by which we are engaging our employees and, and having them work, how is this conducive to their well being and if it's not, What changes do we need to make to our, our expectations, our delivery, our work environment, our work culture to support well being as well and it goes exactly to what you're saying about to we can't have these siloed.
[:[00:36:40] Natalie: We got to hustle, team. This is what we've got to do. I'm going to need you to work overtime. There's, there's a disconnect right there. I actually spoke to an executive about that exact same thing. He was talking about this well being perk and they thought it was so great and it's like, Oh, we have all of these, you know, I don't want to get into the details, but he basically was saying like, we have all of this stuff for our employees for when they have to work really long nights.
[:[00:37:28] Natalie: And if people aren't using them. Yeah. It's a waste of money on a waste of effort. And it is just for, um, it's like performative. Yeah. And we don't want performative, we want transformative. 'cause at the end of the day, the organizations should want and care for employee retention.
[:[00:38:08] Natalie: To better suit them. And then what can we add on? What programming can we add on in support of it as well? I could talk about this forever But I'm gonna have to close but you know before we close My last question is you know on this show One of the primary aims is to encourage women to prioritize their well being To pour back into themselves to honor their needs and also just to have honest conversations about their wellness journeys And for myself, as a wellness coach who supports women, professionals, and entrepreneurs.
[:[00:38:59] Natalie: And if so, can you share one tool or strategy that has helped you?
[:[00:39:33] Chivon: Right? So I would say, like, 1 of the big struggles is, like, making that shift to be okay with not knowing, right? Being okay with imperfect action. Um, and as someone who is like a recovering perfectionist, like, that is like a lesson that is always like, is top of mind for myself. But I think for me, a strategy that has been really helpful is, um, again, going back to community.
[:[00:40:21] Chivon: If we're, if we're seeing, we're kind of slacking and not even slacking and like, not doing your work, but. Slacking in terms of how we're, how we're talking about ourselves or how we're talking to ourselves. Right? Like, so sometimes I might just have that a little bit of that negative voice and like, it's great to have somebody be like, no, we're not doing that.
[:[00:41:01] Chivon: Um, and we can't do that, right? Like, we're gonna like, life is cyclical. You're going to have ups and downs. Um, and I think it's important to know that you don't have to be on that journey alone. So, uh, even if it's folks who may not be full time entrepreneurs as well, having just kind of like, you know, That circle that check in that you can have as a like your soft landing space, uh, to be able to share, to be able to dream together.
[:[00:41:47] Chivon: It's so much more fulfilling. So I think for me, um, my best self care practice, uh, in this time is community care.
[:[00:42:10] Natalie: And I think that the listeners will, will really benefit from it as well. So just before we close them on, I do want to give you the opportunity to, uh, let everyone know, how can they find you? How can they learn more about what you offer?
[:[00:42:32] Chivon: com. This fall, I'm launching a card deck called Easeful Ambition, which is to help folks reimagine their definitions to ambition. We've heard often, like, folks are feeling like they're losing their ambition, and I think it's just a sign of we're tired of working in a way that is more depleting us, then restoring us and rejuvenating us.
[:[00:43:11] Natalie: Awesome. So excited. Can't wait to see that again, Chivon.
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