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Why This, Why Now? "Come Over October" Explained
Episode 137th October 2024 • Sip with Nikki • Nikki Lamberti
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In a Sip with Nikki first, I have 2 ENCORE guests with me: Karen MacNeil (Season 1 Ep 24) and Dr Hoby Wedler (Season 1 Ep 13). The three of us came together to talk about an exciting new initiative that Karen started and that Hoby and I are big supporters of. We gathered in Karen’s office St. Helena and shared a very special bottle of wine from an epic year. This lively and heartfelt conversation touched on so many topics like:

  • What is “Come Over October” and why you need to be a part of it!
  • Karen’s CAREER HIGHLIGHT moment and why wine is bipartisan
  • How understanding texture can help you buy wine
  • The Naked Cowboy in Time Square and his connection to all of this (Check out the Video on Karen's Instagram)

Visit the Come Over October Website to learn how you can get involved and find entertaining tips and ideas! And don't forget to use #comeoveroctober to tag your pictures, and videos!

Check out and Follow Hoby’s Instagram to see his inspiring videos!

Shout out to Ray Ray’s Tacos, a new spot on Main Street in St. Helena. We had an awesome lunch there after our recording session. Try the QUESO!

If you need a unique and delicious wine to share with your Come Over October friends, try my Sollevato Wines...yes I'm biased, I make it! Use code PODLISTENER for 10% off your order. I can ship to most states in the US!

Olives and Olive oil from our awesome sponsor American Olive Farmer. Use code SipWithNikki for $10 off your order!

If you'd like to Support the Podcast, you can buy me a glass of wine and get a shoutout on a future episode.

Please leave a RATING or a REVIEW (on your podcast listening platform), or thumbs up and subscribe (on YouTube!)

Questions? Comments? Guest requests? nikki@sipwithnikki.com

Transcripts

Karen:

like this before?

Karen:

I have not.

Karen:

And so Hobie and Nikki, what, what I've been trying to reconcile for myself.

Karen:

What happened here?

Karen:

What is happening?

Karen:

And I think what's happening is that the whole idea of come over October has hit an emotional nerve.

Karen:

People have said to themselves, damn it.

Karen:

Friendship is important.

Karen:

Being together is important.

Karen:

And I need to make that happen in my own life.

Karen:

100 percent And the beauty of the idea in part is that it is so simple.

Karen:

Everybody can do it, right?

Nikki:

Well, hello!

Nikki:

Welcome to Sip with Nikki.

Nikki:

I'm your host, Nikki Lamberti, and I'm so happy that you're here.

Nikki:

If you are new to the party, welcome.

Nikki:

Hold onto your hats.

Nikki:

week.

Nikki:

And if you're a faithful listener like Anne in Orlando who listens on her way to the stables, I see you and I thank you so much for being a regular listener.

Nikki:

As I'm recording this, it is now October.

Nikki:

I don't know how that happened, but we have finished our harvest for our Solabato wines.

Nikki:

And you know, every October I hear rumblings of people who are like, Oh, I'm doing a sober October.

Nikki:

While I say it like that, Sober October, no judgment, right?

Nikki:

People have different reasons for doing things.

Nikki:

But that is not something that I participate in.

Nikki:

Because wine is just too much of an important part of my life as someone who makes wine and teaches others about wine and has a podcast about wine.

Nikki:

Wine!

Nikki:

So, how about instead of Sober October, We swing the pendulum the other way and come over October, invite friends over, open a bottle of wine, make some smash burgers, put out a cheese board.

Nikki:

So this week I actually have two repeat guests.

Nikki:

Dr.

Nikki:

Hobie Wedler.

Nikki:

Hobie was from season one, episode 13, where he talks about seeing flavor.

Nikki:

And Karen McNeil was from episode 24 in the first season, where she and I talked about Why wine matters, why it's important and why it can be emotional.

Nikki:

Karen's a very well known wine writer and author of the wine Bible.

Nikki:

And she's also one of my former instructors in my wine certification.

Nikki:

And if you've not listened to either of those episodes, I definitely encourage you to go back to get to know them a little bit.

Nikki:

There's some of my favorite episodes and Hobie, who has become a close friend of mine, is a scientist in a sense.

Nikki:

He's a sensory expert with a PhD in organic chemistry.

Nikki:

He's blind since birth and in his first episode and a little bit more now in this one is going to talk about how he can visualize flavor from wine in the glass.

Nikki:

It's really fascinating.

Nikki:

So Karen McNeil and her partners, Gino and Kimberly, they started this very cool movement this year.

Nikki:

It's a national campaign.

Nikki:

called Come Over October, and it's kicking off this month for its inaugural year.

Nikki:

And it's going to be an annual thing.

Nikki:

And the whole concept is to just spend time with people, slow down, put the phone down and open a nice bottle of wine.

Nikki:

Doesn't have to be expensive.

Nikki:

Doesn't have to be fancy.

Nikki:

Kudos if it is, but we're going to talk about why this is such an important concept that really can and should carry on through the entire year.

Nikki:

So if you're listening to this and it's not October, it's okay.

Nikki:

Keep listening.

Nikki:

Cause this is really more about a philosophy and a way of life, how to increase our enjoyment in living 365 days a year.

Nikki:

So, in our really lively and somewhat touching conversation, we get into how wine is bipartisan.

Nikki:

And this is the most political you're ever gonna hear me get, by the way, which is not very political.

Nikki:

Spoiler alert.

Nikki:

Then Hobie takes us through a beautiful description of a super special wine that he brought to share with us.

Nikki:

And then we talk about things like ingesting old molecules.

Nikki:

He creates a new hashtag.

Nikki:

From the soil to your tummy.

Nikki:

And then we even talk about how the naked cowboy in Times Square plays into this whole thing.

Nikki:

So we recorded this in Karen's office, which is in downtown St.

Nikki:

Helena in the Napa Valley.

Nikki:

Her office is on the second floor overlooking Main Street, and it just so happens to be in the oldest building in the town of St.

Nikki:

Helena.

Nikki:

So you may hear some traffic going by as we're literally overlooking the cutest little town, and I'm just really excited for you to hear from the two of them, learn

Nikki:

about Come Over October, and when we come back at the end, I'll tell you some very cool ways that you That you can become a part of this awesome and exciting movement.

Nikki:

Here we go.

Nikki:

Well, thank you both for being encore guests on Sip with Nikki.

Nikki:

This is a first to have returning visitors, and I appreciate both of you.

Nikki:

I'm so excited to be talking about Come Over October.

Nikki:

And Hovi, you actually were the instigator of this.

Nikki:

So you started to have the idea that the three of us should get together.

Nikki:

So let's start there.

Hoby:

Nikki, before I even, Get into that.

Hoby:

I just want to say thank you so much.

Hoby:

You're a huge inspiration to me and all the amazing work that you do and I really admire what you've done since we chatted back in February on Sip with Nikki.

Hoby:

You've really exploded this thing to new levels.

Hoby:

I'm an avid fan and I just want to say my hat's off to you for all the amazing work that you do.

Hoby:

The reason that I connected us is because I'm friends with Gino Colangelo.

Hoby:

Gino talked to me about Come Over October and his collaboration with Karen McNeil and Kimberley of course as well.

Hoby:

And I got really excited.

Hoby:

I think that so often the onus behind wine consumption is driven by social media and some claims that I don't necessarily believe in talking

Hoby:

about wine and how we shouldn't necessarily consume wine because for me Wine brings life together and it's my therapy at the end of the day.

Hoby:

And I just thought this would be an amazing opportunity.

Hoby:

You, Nikki, as a wine podcaster and wine lover, just thought, let's, let's figure out how to do this.

Hoby:

And Gino said, well, you guys, you guys just have to talk, the three of you.

Hoby:

My brain and insides are buzzing that we're together here right now.

Hoby:

So thank you so much.

Nikki:

So Karen, come over October was your brainchild and maybe your dog had something to do as a sounding board.

Nikki:

So I hear from some stories.

Nikki:

So tell us why this?

Nikki:

Why now?

Karen:

Yes.

Karen:

Thanks, Nikki.

Karen:

And I, I certainly second Hobie's appreciation of all that you do.

Karen:

Come Over October is a national campaign encouraging people to do something very simple, and to do something that we, as people who love wine, do all the time, which is simply to Invite a friend, a neighbor, a colleague, a family member to come over to share some wine.

Karen:

And the idea came to me this past spring when I found myself reading so much of what was being written about wine that I felt was incredibly negative, and what saddened me the most was that the conversation around wine had devolved to simply being a conversation about alcohol.

Karen:

And to me, wine is more than alcohol, right?

Karen:

It's threaded into a rich tapestry of culture and religion and art and emotion.

Karen:

It is way more than that.

Karen:

Just alcohol.

Karen:

And we all know that if alcohol was your only goal, there are faster and cheaper ways to do it.

Karen:

Amen to

Nikki:

that,

Karen:

Bad Dog 2020.

Karen:

Yeah, exactly.

Karen:

So I also felt that the wine industry was not yet telling its own positive story.

Karen:

And, and so one, one morning I was walking the dog and I, I was muttering to myself, like, Damn it, why isn't the wine industry standing up for itself?

Karen:

And then I just turned to myself and said, You're a word person.

Karen:

You should do something.

Karen:

And so I, I thought about writing an article because all writers, that's sort of what they will immediately think.

Karen:

But I realized that one more article, while helpful, wasn't enough.

Karen:

that we needed to galvanize, in a sense, the entire community of wine lovers nationally.

Karen:

And people needed to do something, not just read something, but do something.

Karen:

And so it popped into my head, well, wouldn't it be cool if, if every wine drinker in America just invited a friend over and shared some wine?

Karen:

Because we know that wine leads to friendship.

Karen:

It's led to our three friendships.

Hoby:

And Karen, can I add just, just one thing to that?

Hoby:

You know, I did a video that went, dare I say, viral.

Hoby:

It got about a 250, 000 views on TikTok and it was on, on the Instagram for come over October.

Hoby:

No, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not trying to say that, but like, I guess a lot of people heard it and enjoyed it, but.

Hoby:

You know, what we talked about is the way that I really feel like right now, and, and I don't talk about politics, but in this political venue that we, that we see ourselves

Hoby:

in right now, I think people are afraid to talk to the other side and, and really connect and really sit down and say, here's what I think, what do you think?

Hoby:

And we've kind of lost our way in that over the past 10, 15 years.

Hoby:

And I, I just want to come in and come over October because I think it hails to that so well, you know, I'm inviting a different person over every day to enjoy wine with me this month and you know, some of the conversations are light and amazing and just easy and some are hard.

Hoby:

We're not, not talking.

Hoby:

This is what it's all about.

Hoby:

We need to talk.

Karen:

Yes.

Karen:

And you know, one of the things that I think every wine drinker has experienced is being with someone.

Karen:

who's a stranger, sharing some wine, and after that, you are no longer strangers.

Karen:

You are now friends.

Karen:

And that's a really mystical ability that wine has.

Karen:

Nothing else, I think, compares to that.

Karen:

And there is something very deeply connective about wine that allows us to to feel good in the company of another person.

Karen:

It is, at its essence, a shareable communal beverage.

Karen:

And that's an important social fact.

Karen:

That's why it's had such an important role to play culturally for centuries.

Karen:

Amen.

Hoby:

You know, for me as a blind person, one of the things that I feel is, is a superpower of mine is that I, I am disarming to people and I don't judge a book by its cover.

Hoby:

So I don't look at someone and say, Oh, I don't want to talk to her.

Hoby:

I don't want to talk to him.

Hoby:

I talk to everybody and I've gotten to know some of my best friends just by being open that way.

Hoby:

And I think the only other thing in my life that can do that, and the only thing that I've seen in all my sighted friends lives that does that, is wine.

Hoby:

We chemists are nerds, so we talk about activation energies for things to happen, reactions to happen, and wine does something that a catalyst does, and it, socially, and it lowers that activation barrier.

Nikki:

I shared a story in a recent podcast just from a couple weeks ago.

Nikki:

Michael and I went to Rutherford grill, one of our favorite spots.

Nikki:

And we love to sit at the bar there because we always meet such interesting people, whether they are locals, cause a lot of us do hang out there or people that are visiting.

Nikki:

And there was a gentleman sitting next to us who turns out was a driver for one of the wine tour companies.

Nikki:

And it was the end of the day and he was having his dinner there.

Nikki:

And Michael and I had ordered a really nice wine.

Nikki:

bottle on the swing, you know, which was killer.

Nikki:

And it was so natural for this guy who we had just met and started talking to for us to be like, Hey, bartender, can we get a glass for our new friend?

Nikki:

And would you like to try this wine?

Nikki:

And he said, yes.

Nikki:

And I, and I joke and I say like, if we were sitting drinking old fashions, which is fine.

Nikki:

Let me not think against the old fashioned.

Nikki:

It probably would have been a little less natural to be like, Hey stranger, would you like to try my old sip?

Nikki:

It's just not the same, right?

Nikki:

It's not the same.

Nikki:

And Karen, to that point, uh, in a recent video that I was watching of you talking about this wonderful advocacy and this campaign and this movement, which is really what it's become, you said that wine is about generosity and goodwill and community.

Karen:

It is so true.

Karen:

And I suppose that those ideas probably feel right now more important than ever.

Karen:

The world is so divisive right now.

Karen:

And so I would almost go so far as to say we need wine, right?

Karen:

We need to sit in the company of each other and share something.

Karen:

And I do think that the idea that wine is always served in a communal package, right?

Karen:

A bottle of wine goes back a very long way in history, and its very essence is to be shared.

Karen:

That's right.

Karen:

One of the things that we recently did is calculate the reach of Come Over October, and we've reached 1.

Karen:

4 billion people.

Karen:

In

Nikki:

a matter of months.

Nikki:

This is months we're talking

Karen:

about.

Nikki:

Are you tired?

Nikki:

A

Karen:

little.

Karen:

A little?

Karen:

Have you ever seen success like this before?

Karen:

I have not.

Karen:

And so Hobie and Nikki, what is it like?

Karen:

I've been trying to reconcile for myself what happened here, what is happening, and I think what's happening is that the whole idea of come over October has hit an emotional nerve.

Karen:

People have said to themselves, dammit, friendship is important.

Karen:

Being together is important, and I need to make that happen in my own life.

Karen:

A hundred percent.

Karen:

And and the beauty of the idea in part is that it is so simple, everybody can do it right.

Hoby:

And the, the thing that I would add to that, wine is complex and there are molecules in wine that are not harmful to your body at all.

Hoby:

In fact, they're quite the opposite.

Hoby:

So one of the main ones that we find typically in red wine is a very powerful flavonoid, we call them flavor molecule, an antioxidant called epicatechin.

Hoby:

Epicatechin has been known to reduce blood pressure.

Hoby:

Big time.

Hoby:

Reduce heart disease risks.

Hoby:

Reduce diabetes risks.

Hoby:

And, and all these things.

Hoby:

So, my sort of claim here is that wine is not bad and it has elements of the grapes that you eat.

Hoby:

So, when we talk about, oh, you should eat five fruits and vegetables a day, is that from the 90s or is that now?

Hoby:

I think it's

Nikki:

Is that on the triangle, the food

Hoby:

pyramid?

Hoby:

I'll quote it now, yeah.

Hoby:

Yeah, then When we drink wine, the amazing thing about it, because it's just fermented and then aged, it's not distilled, we keep around a lot of those amazing nutrients that we would get if we ate that many grapes.

Hoby:

So, If you drink a glass of wine, you're actually ingesting a little over a pound of grape nutrients That's a lot like imagine eating a pound of grapes.

Hoby:

It's a lot of little grapes Right, right, but imagine drinking a glass of wine.

Hoby:

You're getting that same nutrient packed punch that it's just fun and Makes your body sing.

Nikki:

Thank you for sharing that, Hobie, because I think, and I've heard Karen talk about this, and I certainly echo it, we do not have the PhD in organic chemistry, nor are we medical professionals, right?

Nikki:

So we're certainly hesitant to start talking about health properties and benefits.

Nikki:

But when the man with the Ph.

Nikki:

D.

Nikki:

in organic chemistry from UC Davis starts talking about nutrients in grapes, I feel like you're allowed to go there because you know the science, right?

Nikki:

Dr.

Nikki:

Redler prescribes

Hoby:

one glass of wine, you know, every day in October, so.

Nikki:

I love it.

Hoby:

I am a doctor, not a physician.

Hoby:

I'm very careful about that.

Nikki:

Yes, very good to make the distinction.

Nikki:

When you were talking about wine bringing people together, something very timely that falls within this month just accidentally is, I think you both know this, that I

Nikki:

live in the Coffee Park neighborhood in Santa Rosa, and we're coming up on the seven year anniversary of the Tubbs fire, when our entire neighborhood was demolished.

Nikki:

And many of us have rebuilt, and it's, it's a positive thing now, right?

Nikki:

But the reason I bring this up is because During the rebuilding process, one of my neighbors, I wish I could take credit for this, but one of my neighbors started a Wine Wednesday, and we were all displaced, some of us all over the state in temporary housing, but we came

Nikki:

together, and I happen to live on a cul de sac, and I think there's symbolism in the circular nature of the cul de sac, and whoever could be there would be there checking on their site, talking about permitting, talking about Builders and contractors and there was always wine.

Nikki:

It might have been grocery store wine in a solo cup Because that was accessible at the time when no one had kitchens or cellars anymore Or you know as we got further along doing this for over a year every wednesday We started upping the game and bringing things.

Nikki:

But what made me bring this up is that next week, October 9th, um, the neighbors are having a seven year anniversary because it's on Wednesday and we will be having a big wine Wednesday in Scarlet place in Santa Rosa.

Nikki:

Now looking at all these beautiful homes around us where the neighborhood is about 90 percent rebuilt.

Nikki:

So.

Nikki:

It just made me think about how wine was, you used the word therapy, but how it really brought neighbors that I didn't even know before that together.

Nikki:

And we're going to get to come over October in the cul de sac next Wednesday.

Nikki:

You're both invited.

Nikki:

Karen, you'll probably be in some other country, but it's just, I think a great example of how it really does bring people together.

Karen:

Well, and if you, you know, if you turn the binoculars around for a second and think about the fact that when you.

Karen:

Ask someone, what was an important moment tasting wine, just as you just described here, a very emotional get together with other people who have suffered so deeply as a result of those wildfires.

Karen:

You imagine the wine, but you always know who you were with, and even when you ask someone, like, what's the greatest wine you ever had, sometimes people cannot remember the name of the wine.

Karen:

That's right.

Karen:

But they remember who was on my right.

Karen:

Yes.

Karen:

Who was on my left.

Karen:

I love it.

Karen:

There you go.

Karen:

And you

Hoby:

guys, let me, let me just paint another picture here.

Hoby:

This is Exactly what my brain does with wine.

Hoby:

So what I love the most about wine is how non visual it is, how you can show people photos of a wedding that happened five years ago, and they can look around and smile and laugh and see themselves standing around, but if you ask someone, what was the highlight of that wedding?

Hoby:

And tell me what, what was served at the wedding, what wines were served.

Hoby:

They can tell you what they were drinking with their dinner and who was at their table because you relate it to something, right?

Hoby:

And when I drink wine, sometimes I get teary eyed when I drink wine.

Hoby:

It just sort of happens to me.

Hoby:

You

Nikki:

and I cried on the podcast recording.

Nikki:

Wine makes me cry all the time.

Nikki:

That's why I'm there.

Hoby:

That's right.

Hoby:

No judgment.

Hoby:

And sometimes when I taste a wine, It is the, the closest thing I can imagine to seeing something, to seeing color, to seeing a landscape, to seeing artwork.

Hoby:

So for me, wine is to see, and there's an element to this that is so non visual about what Karen just said.

Hoby:

The way that when we taste a wine, wine locks

Karen:

in memories.

Karen:

We are essentially emotional creatures who think not thinking creatures who have emotions.

Karen:

Yeah.

Karen:

And again,

Nikki:

for the back row.

Karen:

And when you can touch that emotion, it's like having a direct line.

Karen:

into a person.

Karen:

And so wine's ability to touch us emotionally and, and you both just mentioned crying.

Karen:

I've taught, you know, thousands of wine students, and I can't tell you the number of them that have cried.

Karen:

Nickelodeon

Nikki:

Institute of America.

Nikki:

Yeah.

Nikki:

Crying.

Karen:

Exactly.

Karen:

And then, you know, This feels so good because this is what wine was, in a sense, meant to do.

Karen:

It was meant to elicit emotion, to invoke an emotional response that binds us to one another.

Karen:

That's right.

Nikki:

And I love, Hobie, that because you have the chemistry background, and you can talk about flavor compounds and break them down on the molecular level,

Nikki:

you have not lost that importance of the emotion of wine, and What Karen is so eloquent talking about why wine matters and and why wine is important, right?

Nikki:

We've talked about all of those things.

Nikki:

So you see it from both sides.

Nikki:

I

Hoby:

love I'm a weird scientist because I'm I'm more of a Emotional romantic than I am a scientist.

Hoby:

I love telling stories and hearing stories be told and Relating to people and using science to

Nikki:

enhance

Hoby:

what we talk about.

Nikki:

On your come over October campaigning that you've been doing, and so many travels as I follow your social media, can you talk to us a little bit about the Congressional Wine Caucus?

Nikki:

Can you take us through what that was like?

Nikki:

Because that just happened fairly recently, right?

Karen:

Yes, I just came back from Washington, where Come over October was invited to present to the Congressional Wine Caucus.

Karen:

This was a huge high for me, as you can imagine, a career high.

Karen:

Because When people who are in politics stop to talk to one another, and there were probably at one point nearly 300 congresspeople and their aides in a room with wines from 40 different states, I thought

Karen:

to myself, Oh, I have to hold on to this moment in my soul because this is sort of the epitome of Getting everyone to be together, to talk together.

Karen:

It was just astounding.

Karen:

And of course, I interview both Mike Thompson, our congressman from Napa Valley here, and its environs, as well as Dan Newhouse, who is a congressman from Washington State.

Karen:

And both are the co chairmen of the Congressional Wine Caucus.

Karen:

Wow.

Karen:

And they were very articulate about why wine matters in their state.

Karen:

Not only because it supports agriculture, and thousands of jobs, and billions of dollars, and all of the economic factors.

Karen:

They were really clear about the social benefits.

Karen:

Of having wine communities that take care of the land and wine communities that are inherently supportive, made up of people who, who work together.

Karen:

I mean, it was incredibly philosophic in a way that you don't think is gonna happen in Congress.

Nikki:

Interesting.

Nikki:

It worked great.

Nikki:

Yeah, it was great.

Nikki:

I think people listening to this will be surprised to know there is something as such at the Congressional Wine Caucus.

Nikki:

What is the objective of that?

Nikki:

Outside of come over October and what do you think is the importance of that

Karen:

wine is made in all 50 states and wine is a very important employer of jobs.

Karen:

It is an important source of taxes and it is the economic lifeblood of thousands of rural communities.

Karen:

It is in the end a form of farming and so it's no surprise.

Karen:

that congressmen across the United States are very interested in supporting.

Karen:

local agriculture, which includes local viticulture.

Hoby:

It's amazing.

Nikki:

A study by Wine America, and this was for 2022, said that the wine industry provided 1.

Nikki:

84 million jobs, 95 billion in wages and 276 billion of total income.

Nikki:

That's a Wine America study.

Nikki:

That's incredible.

Nikki:

So, it's one thing to say wine is impact, and then we can back it up with numbers, right?

Hoby:

And the thing that I think is so special about wine, when I think about it, is that it impacts positively so many lives, from the people who grow the grapes, to the people who harvest the fruit, to the people who make the wine.

Hoby:

We all are benefiting from it.

Hoby:

From this industry and all the way to the consumer to the person who just wants to have a really nice time To take it all in and have a glass of wine and think about honestly How many people you're helping by doing that one of the things

Hoby:

karen that really interested me about what you were saying Were the folks who you interviewed, Mike Thompson from, from here in California and a gentleman from Washington, did they happen to be on different sides of the aisle?

Karen:

I am not sure I should know that.

Karen:

Mike Thompson is a Democrat.

Karen:

Pretty staunch Democrat.

Karen:

But there were absolutely Republicans at our, our reception.

Hoby:

Yeah.

Hoby:

Did you hear Democrats and Republicans alike talking and enjoying each other's company?

Hoby:

Because they were Happy and enjoying wine

Karen:

that idea of enjoying wine and having conversations at the same time was Absolutely happening for the whole we were there for nearly three hours.

Karen:

It was from 430 to 730 at night and Yes, I mean it could have been a get together in Sonoma in Napa in in the Texas Hill country it was It was remarkable to watch Truly

Nikki:

remarkable to watch.

Nikki:

You know, we say about that, that wine is bipartisan.

Nikki:

That's it.

Nikki:

It crosses the aisles, right?

Karen:

And brings people together.

Karen:

But you know, we all know that craft cocktails are very important right now.

Karen:

And when you go to a bar, You can sit and watch a mixologist to do their stuff, mix you up a, a great cocktail.

Karen:

One of the challenges in communicating about wine is that you can't see the process.

Karen:

You don't watch the winemaker make the wine for you right in front of you in the way.

Karen:

that a mixologist will make you a craft cocktail.

Karen:

So what Hobie was just saying about this incredible spider's web, this very intricate network of people who together bring you wine.

Karen:

While true, very true, It is really hard for consumers to see that.

Karen:

In fact, they don't

Nikki:

often see that.

Nikki:

When I first came here on vacation as a wine lover from the east coast in 2009 and went to my first wine tasting, Tracer Boris Winery here in St.

Nikki:

Helena, and John came out and greeted my mom and I and had a bottle and two glasses to walk with me, took us into the row of vines and said, taste this.

Nikki:

This came from here pointing to the vines.

Nikki:

And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is agriculture.

Nikki:

This is farming.

Nikki:

This family, they own this land.

Nikki:

They make this one.

Nikki:

The light bulbs were hopping, but I totally agree.

Nikki:

That's because I came here in person and got to experience that.

Nikki:

And it's so true.

Nikki:

When you see a commodity bottle on a store shelf or behind the bar, that's lost.

Nikki:

So how do we as people that are so passionate about this?

Nikki:

How do we communicate that?

Nikki:

And

Karen:

how do we highlight

Nikki:

that?

Karen:

Yeah, it's why wine tourism, which has been growing for a long time now, is in fact so important.

Karen:

Because as we all know, there's nothing like standing in a vineyard, as you did, and tasting the wine.

Karen:

And then, yes, the light bulb goes

Hoby:

on.

Hoby:

Or standing in a cave and smelling the barrels.

Hoby:

Yeah.

Hoby:

And talking to the people and getting to hear their story.

Hoby:

And I want to make a point here that might be a little bit controversial.

Hoby:

So forgive me, but.

Hoby:

Come closer.

Hoby:

But I feel like social media has struck a chord with people where they need such immediate knowledge.

Hoby:

Social media, I think AI, artificial intelligence, is doing this too, where it's like we have so much knowledge at our fingertips that if you can watch

Hoby:

someone make you a craft cocktail and see the mint leaf go in and see everything go together, it gratifies, it scratches that endorphins itch, right?

Hoby:

And sometimes wine is thought of as sort of, yeah, that's what my dad drank, that's what my mom drank, right?

Hoby:

What needs to happen in this industry, and I think what Come Over October is all about, is we need to open the hood, so to speak, on the industry, and show people what is happening.

Hoby:

Behind the scenes.

Hoby:

So I think in years to come Karen for come over October I think it's more than hey brave people over and have a glass of wine.

Hoby:

It's that and Let us tell you how this glass got from the soil to your tummy because that to me is And, and we're about to taste a bottle here, by the way.

Hoby:

It's from 2012.

Hoby:

That was 12 years ago.

Hoby:

And if we think about what we were doing, 12 years ago in October, there's history there.

Hoby:

This wine is not just made Overnight, it's not just made behind a bar.

Hoby:

It is not the same, and it needs to sit and age.

Hoby:

and undergo chemical processes and gain a personality on its own.

Hoby:

So wine is just so much deeper than let's throw these ingredients together and call it a day.

Karen:

Well, we, we are about to drink molecules from 2012.

Karen:

Hashtag

Nikki:

from the soil to my tummy.

Nikki:

Yeah.

Nikki:

I'm going to use that now, Hobie, right?

Hoby:

Or from the soil to my, to my mouth, you know, it's, it's all about the taste too, and the.

Hoby:

But I think the soil to the tummy, it sounds better.

Karen:

Time and evokes place.

Karen:

Fun Sip With Nikki Music: It does.

Karen:

Right?

Karen:

I mean, the idea that you're taking molecules from 2012 into your body, you're not just putting it up on a shelf somewhere.

Karen:

You are ingesting nature, a moment in the past.

Karen:

That is very cool.

Karen:

And there's nothing else

Nikki:

like that.

Nikki:

There really isn't.

Nikki:

Tell us why you selected this wine today and tell us a little bit about it.

Nikki:

Fun Sip With Nikki Music: I

Hoby:

want to get some ASMR cheers in, so let's do some clink clinks on the, on the mics here.

Hoby:

So, the wine that we're drinking right now is from 2012, and it's Francis Ford Coppola's Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon from Alexander Valley.

Hoby:

And first of all, I think this wine ages beautifully.

Hoby:

I have a cellar at home.

Hoby:

This wine has gone on a journey with me from, of course, the winery to, and it lived then in my apartment at Davis, uh, until 2016, and then, and then went home when I bought my wine cellar that I, that I currently have today, and a funny aside there is that my poor partner,

Hoby:

Justin, lived with me in, in, in our house, and, uh, he's a wine lover too, so he was okay with it, thank goodness, but we kept our apartment at 61 degrees all year long because, uh, The line was more important than the people.

Hoby:

Than the power bill.

Hoby:

Yeah, well, yeah, power was cheaper then.

Hoby:

In 2011, I was introduced to Francis Ford Coppola by a friend of mine who actually went blind, who was sighted before and was an architect.

Hoby:

It's a beautiful place.

Hoby:

And when Francis Ford Coppola calls you and says, do you want to do something?

Hoby:

You say yes.

Hoby:

And then you hang up and freak out about what you just agreed to do.

Hoby:

I agreed to do these tastings for him, tasting in the dark, which is something that he's allowed me to grow way beyond the wine industry and all around the world.

Hoby:

But I did my first tasting with the winemaker Corey Beck, the head winemaker for Francis Ford Coppola, who's a dear friend and mentor of mine.

Hoby:

And we left that room and Corey just said to me, Hobie, that was one of the best experiences I've ever had.

Hoby:

And it just warmed my heart.

Hoby:

And, and then when 2012 rolled around, which was one of the, one of the better years in the past, I'd say 30 years that NAPA and Sonoma have seen.

Hoby:

This is the year I really got deep into organic chemistry in graduate school.

Hoby:

This is the year that I, realized what I truly wanted to do in my life was in the food and wine industry, and it was the year that I ultimately was able to

Hoby:

grow Tasting in the Dark from a little experience in hospitality to something that the national sales team picked up all around the world for Coppola.

Hoby:

So it's the time that I grew into wine was this year, and I thought what, what better bottle to this year than, than 2012.

Hoby:

And Nikki, I think you might have a story about 2012 yourself

Nikki:

started off the calendar year of 2012.

Nikki:

January with Karen sitting in her classroom at the Culinary Institute of America.

Nikki:

My goodness at the Red Center for Wine Studies.

Nikki:

January and February wine immersion deciding if I should move out here or not.

Nikki:

Three days in to spending time with you and your other faculty who were teaching us.

Nikki:

I was like, I'm packing up.

Nikki:

This is where I need to be.

Nikki:

And by the end of that calendar year, I had done exactly that.

Nikki:

I had moved here.

Nikki:

Fun Sip With Nikki Music: I

Nikki:

had started helping with harvest at Tres Sabores.

Nikki:

I landed the job at pride.

Nikki:

So yeah, 12 year anniversary this month of really becoming a resident of this area.

Nikki:

And Karen, I gushed at you and our initial podcast recording about your influence and all of that, but how.

Nikki:

Special, Hobie, that you, you chose this bottle, so I might cry.

Nikki:

I know.

Nikki:

Surprise!

Nikki:

I must

Hoby:

say, I didn't know that you came and worked with Karen in January, but I knew it was the year that you officially decided to move out here.

Hoby:

So we're celebrating that anniversary.

Nikki:

So I would love to hear Karen's thoughts on this wine.

Nikki:

Have you had this before?

Karen:

I have not had this wine, and It is a wine that I would call a textural wine that has flavor versus a flavorful wine that has texture.

Karen:

And I, I know that that sounds funny because of course all wine has both, but texture is something that we don't talk enough about with wine, in my opinion, because texture is something that everyone understands.

Karen:

And if this wine tastes to you like, I don't know, a Chinese five spice or, Sagebrush in the mountains, or, I mean, you can get there with, you know, the listening to someone else's flavor descriptions.

Karen:

But almost everybody, when you talk about how a wine feels, people understand that immediately.

Karen:

And, and I also believe that one of the things that is most compelling about a wine, is how it feels.

Karen:

And, you know, a few years ago, I realized that for my own writing, that I needed to write more about texture.

Karen:

And my example to myself was breakfast cereals.

Karen:

If you watch, if you listen to how people market breakfast cereals, and believe me, they spend Kazillion dollars.

Karen:

Snap, crackle, pop.

Karen:

It is.

Karen:

It's snap.

Karen:

Nobody says nice rice flavor, right?

Karen:

No, they don't.

Karen:

No, they, they understand.

Karen:

They were the first kind of business to understand that the quickest way to the hearts of Americans is to talk about texture.

Hoby:

And what I love about what you said about texture is it's the emotive part of wine and of experience that is sort of indescribable.

Hoby:

One of the things that I think is so special about wine texture is not only the feeling, But actually the sound.

Hoby:

So when I sat down with Gino Calangelo, who's a principal of, of Come Over October as well, a couple of years ago in New York's Upper West Side, and we were having a bagel with lox and of course, don't you love it?

Hoby:

And we ordered a bottle of sparkling wine and we were tasting and I said, Gino, listen to the wine because your head is a big reverberation chamber if you think about it.

Hoby:

So my only point is that wine texture.

Hoby:

is not just what you feel.

Karen:

When I was a young woman and barely making it as a, as a writer, several friends who knew how poor I was said to me, why don't you choose wine for us?

Karen:

And you know, we'll, we'll pay you a little bit.

Karen:

And I thought, Oh, this is kind of a good gig.

Karen:

You know, you get your friends to let you be their wine consultant.

Karen:

So having agreed, I then thought, wait a minute, how am I going to do this?

Karen:

Because I remember one friend said to me, you know, I walk into a wine store.

Karen:

There are 7, 000 bottles.

Karen:

I have no idea.

Karen:

I'm happy to pay you 20 to just go into the store and buy me wines that you think I'll like.

Karen:

So I sat down with this friend and I thought, God, how am I going to figure out her palate, right?

Karen:

Because I know my own palate, but how am I going to figure that out?

Karen:

So I think to myself, all right, I'll get a few different bottles.

Karen:

I'll see what wine she likes.

Karen:

And then I'll buy wines like that.

Karen:

So I realized, after doing these experiments with her, that she liked lots of different flavors.

Karen:

That wasn't going to help me.

Karen:

But she liked one certain texture.

Karen:

Interesting.

Karen:

What was her texture?

Karen:

It was snappy, Racy, incredibly crisp, and very vivid, and once I got that, once I got that, then I could go into any store in the world and quickly put together a case of wine for her.

Karen:

Because it wasn't about, did she like lemons or kiwi fruit or pears or, yeah.

Karen:

It was how the wine felt.

Karen:

It was the choreography in her palate that she was

Nikki:

looking for,

Karen:

right?

Karen:

That's my

Nikki:

other favorite word, as you know.

Nikki:

Yeah, I'm sure I got that from you.

Nikki:

Like, so many things.

Karen:

Pretty sure.

Karen:

But anyway, isn't that the case?

Karen:

And, and, you know, the moral of the story for all of us, too, is when you taste a wine and you say to yourself, Oh man, this is delicious.

Karen:

Delicious.

Karen:

This is so good.

Karen:

Pay attention to the texture because once you figure out the texture that you love, buying wine becomes much easier.

Karen:

Mm hmm.

Hoby:

Beautifully said.

Hoby:

I took my partner to the island of Kauai for his 40th birthday a couple of weeks ago, and we were there on the island, and he's trying to describe the visuals to me, and I realized these are all textural.

Hoby:

You know, everything is about the mountains, about the colors, about the The way the landscape, if you've ever been to, to the island of Kauai, it's what they call the garden island because it's very green, but it also has a lot of great variations in, in land height.

Hoby:

So going from the beach way up to the mountains and then rolling back down and all these things.

Hoby:

So he said, I'm really struggling.

Hoby:

I cannot figure this out.

Hoby:

What does this look like?

Hoby:

And he said, he's very smart.

Hoby:

He said, let me find a wine.

Hoby:

That feels like the island of Kauai.

Karen:

Very cool.

Hoby:

And he found a Côte Rôtie called Climat Seurat that was so cool and calm on the palate, but then when you breathe a little bit of air through it and

Hoby:

oxidize it on your palate, You can start to feel these peaks come alive with the tannins and these, these things that I was like, I was just mesmerized.

Hoby:

I sat outside and meditated with this wine for half an hour.

Hoby:

And you're looking at the bay because it was like, okay, okay.

Hoby:

This is the North shore of Kauai.

Hoby:

I can feel it.

Hoby:

I don't need to see it.

Hoby:

I can, I can taste it.

Hoby:

I can feel it.

Hoby:

I got it.

Karen:

Yeah.

Karen:

So cool, Hobie.

Karen:

And, you know, one of the things to watch in a wine, too, is, is how texture changes both in the glass over time as you're tasting a wine and how one, you know, Texture can lead into another one, you know,

Karen:

musicians get this because they're not thinking about texture, but they're thinking about in a sense, tempo and how you can go from sort of a slow rolling tempo to, you know, something really fast and percussive.

Karen:

And so I guess what we are collectively saying here is or at least I feel very strongly that we have only begun to think about how to describe wine well.

Karen:

There are, the whole idea of look at the color, take a sniff, is it blackberry, taste the wine, is it blackberries, is it blueberries.

Karen:

I am so done with that.

Karen:

I, I, I'm bored by it.

Karen:

Blah, blah, blah.

Karen:

Thank you

Karen:

Fun Sip With Nikki Music: for your honesty.

Karen:

No wonder people tune us out, right?

Karen:

Yeah, and it's, I mean, I'm not saying that it is not valid.

Karen:

It is, of course, valid.

Karen:

It's a starting point.

Karen:

We've all done that.

Karen:

But I think that intellectually, emotionally, philosophically, there are other ways to think about wine.

Karen:

And so I'm sort of tasking myself with making myself think about wine in a very different way than I ever have before.

Karen:

Well, as a

Nikki:

classically trained ballet dancer as a child, This wine for me, and especially I've took a sip five minutes ago and it's still performing is like the first act of Swan Lake where it starts with fog over the water and

Nikki:

the swans, and then it kind of builds up to the Allegro portion and the famous four swans crossing arms, dancing in unison, and then like the fold over the legs one at the end, like there is a beginning, a middle, and an end.

Nikki:

with a silky thread through all of it on this wine.

Nikki:

And it is amazing.

Nikki:

And I'm so grateful that you brought this to share with us today.

Nikki:

So thank you.

Hoby:

You're so welcome.

Hoby:

And for me, this, this wine, you're absolutely right.

Hoby:

Has a really nice start, like right when it kisses your teeth, the middle, you know, right on your hardened, you know, Soft palate come together if you feel the roof of your mouth and your tongue and then The end

Hoby:

is just that finish that I sipped it five minutes ago to lingers with you for so long Then Nikki and I are both the kind of fans of a guy called David Matthews.

Hoby:

Did you say

Nikki:

kinda?

Hoby:

Yeah, there's

Nikki:

no kinda

Hoby:

And and this is like it.

Hoby:

This is like a crazy jam song Anybody's heard of the song two step.

Hoby:

That's this wine for me

Karen:

You know, the idea of the front palate, mid palate, and end palate, when you say that to people, most people think you mean physically.

Karen:

The front of your tongue, the sides of your mouth, the back of your mouth.

Karen:

But what is meant by front palate, mid palate, and back palate is, it's a temporal idea.

Karen:

What is happening first?

Karen:

What is happening as the wine begins to unfold in the warmth and moisture of your mouth?

Karen:

And what is happening a few seconds in?

Karen:

And there are a lot of, not myths exactly, but misinterpretations of wine.

Karen:

What's important here is that you hold the wine in your mouth for a few seconds to watch it unfold over time.

Karen:

Amen.

Karen:

So important.

Karen:

Yep.

Karen:

Very important.

Karen:

And that's part of the pleasure, by the way.

Karen:

Totally.

Karen:

Is to watch what it's doing second by second.

Karen:

Um, it may seem a little precious to hear it put that way, but When you, when you do that yourself, when you, when you just let the, watch the wine temporally over time, it is so, you know, it's such a head trip.

Karen:

It's just so fascinating.

Karen:

It really is.

Nikki:

I have just two last things I want to ask about.

Nikki:

Karen, you were recently in Times Square, because come over October, got a billboard.

Hoby:

Nice.

Nikki:

And you met someone that I'd met before.

Nikki:

Oh my gosh.

Nikki:

Can you tell us about any interesting characters that you spent time with in Times Square?

Karen:

Yeah, so I'm in Times Square.

Karen:

This is about a week ago, and Come Over October was on one of the Jumbotrons, you know, those huge digital light up billboards where the ball drops during New Year's Eve.

Karen:

So we're waiting, all excited, because Come Over October is about to come up on the Jumbotron, and there is one of the most famous characters in Times Square called the Naked Cowboy.

Karen:

And the Naked Cowboy is wearing a blue shirt.

Karen:

Very skimpy underwear, and that's all, and he's got a cowboy hat on, cowboy boots, and he's playing his guitar.

Karen:

And I started dancing to his playing, and the two of us did like a little skit.

Karen:

I think it completely reformed my image on social media.

Karen:

I'm now, uh, you know.

Karen:

It's got some views!

Karen:

It's got some shares.

Karen:

It really did.

Karen:

I thought, okay, all the serious things I've written about, but no, it's just me with the naked cowboy that, that really hits on social media.

Karen:

And he made up a come over October song on the spot and sang it to me.

Karen:

I got to see this video.

Karen:

And you're standing there with

Nikki:

your sign.

Nikki:

I know I have a little October.

Nikki:

It's, it's so cool.

Nikki:

And I think so many people recognize him because they've been to Times Square.

Nikki:

And, you know, wading through the sketchy Mickey Mouse and the sketchy Grover and then you see, you know, the naked cowboy.

Nikki:

So I think it was just relatable for a lot of people because they're like, Oh yeah, she's in Times Square.

Nikki:

Yeah.

Nikki:

Unmistakable.

Nikki:

It's like

Hoby:

a character that's, that's been there before.

Hoby:

Oh yeah.

Nikki:

He's always there.

Karen:

Yes.

Karen:

He's always there.

Karen:

So in one week I have both Congress and the naked cowboy.

Karen:

It was, yeah.

Karen:

Okay.

Karen:

Which one got more views?

Karen:

I'm not going to say.

Nikki:

Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

Nikki:

Okay, so as we come to a close I'd love to hear from both of you.

Nikki:

What do you want our listeners to do?

Nikki:

What are the actions?

Nikki:

What are the steps?

Nikki:

What are you encouraging them to do?

Nikki:

Not only in October as this annual campaign that's kicking off, but just in general?

Nikki:

I

Karen:

would say Do what you know to be true.

Karen:

What you know to be true is that friendship matters, generosity matters, being together matters, and doing those things, getting together with people you love, and people you will love if you get to know them more, is important.

Karen:

And wine is often, The beverage on the table that helps old friendships deepen and new friendships form, and it doesn't have to be an expensive wine, it doesn't have to be a big

Karen:

party, and it can be someone you know, it can be your spouse or partner, but sharing wine is It has an unbelievable mystical ability to bring us together and we all need that.

Hoby:

You know, for me, the point of Come Over October is to use wine to level the playing field between us all and make us see the world for what it is and

Hoby:

talk to each other and connect with each other and think about who we are and, and how we can be good and how we can respect and, and help each other.

Hoby:

Because I'm sorry, you know, life is, uh, way too short to not enjoy a glass of wine with folks who you love.

Hoby:

And, something I've seen in people who Don't drink some nights is that when they don't drink, they sit there and they're even spouses are on their phones with their earbuds in listening to some content that they want to listen to.

Hoby:

It's not what their partner's listening to and they don't talk.

Hoby:

They use wine to bring us together and, and talk again, because the power of what the, the three of us have done just now in a room together, sharing wine, having deep conversation is something I don't want to miss out on.

Hoby:

Any other day of my life.

Nikki:

Amen to that.

Nikki:

Karen, the website that you Gino and Kimberly have created come over october.

Nikki:

com has a lot of great information, but there's actually an entertaining tips section.

Nikki:

So if you're listening to this and you're thinking I can get on board with this, I get it, but like, what do I do?

Nikki:

And does it have to be fancy?

Nikki:

My favorite suggestion on there is.

Nikki:

Bubbles and burgers, right?

Nikki:

And I know your love for sparkling wine.

Nikki:

We, we share that in common, but like have some smash burgers and open a beautiful bottle.

Nikki:

There's suggestions on great bottles from all over the world there.

Nikki:

There's a section there called go with the flow, talking all about volcanic wines.

Nikki:

And Karen, since I saw you last, when we recorded, I went to Sicily finally and drank.

Nikki:

Norello Mascalese in its homeland, in the shadows of Mount Etna.

Nikki:

So there's some suggestions there.

Nikki:

So there's theming ideas on the website, which are very helpful.

Nikki:

But whatever people are doing, we'd love for them to use the hashtag, ComeOverOctober.

Nikki:

They can tag or at an Instagram,

Karen:

ComeOverOctober.

Karen:

Yes.

Karen:

Please don't forget to.

Karen:

Join us on Instagram at comeoveroctober and if you are near New York, you can go and see the Jumbotron in Times Square yourself and or the naked and or the naked cowboy.

Karen:

And if you take a photo of yourself in front of the comeoveroctober sign in Times Square and post it and tag us, then you'll be entered to win a signed copy of the book.

Karen:

The Wine Bible.

Karen:

Ugh.

Nikki:

And is that all month?

Nikki:

Yes.

Nikki:

That Jumbotron will be up?

Nikki:

Yes.

Nikki:

And you're running that initiative?

Nikki:

Yes.

Hoby:

Karen, can I win, can I win a, or?

Hoby:

You are

Nikki:

disqualified, sir.

Nikki:

Can I earn

Hoby:

an opportunity to win that book if I take a picture of me and the naked cowboys?

Hoby:

And so on and up.

Karen:

Well, um, I guess so.

Karen:

I can't speak for the cowboys, but yeah.

Karen:

I think he'd be fine with it.

Karen:

I think he'll be cool with it.

Karen:

He seems like a cool guy.

Karen:

Karen, for

Nikki:

joining us.

Nikki:

for the thought and then the initiative to bring it to reality, the partnerships that you've brought in to bring the momentum behind the impact you've made in such a short time.

Nikki:

Thank you for all that you do.

Nikki:

Thank you.

Nikki:

And Hobie, thank you for all that you do.

Hoby:

Thank you, Nikki.

Hoby:

Thank you for inviting us on the podcast.

Hoby:

It's an absolute pleasure.

Hoby:

Just proud to be with you both.

Hoby:

Cheers.

Hoby:

Cheers.

Hoby:

Cheers.

Nikki:

What a special morning that was, learning from the two of them and getting excited about this whole come over October concept.

Nikki:

And then to top it off, we went across the street and had lunch in this awesome new taco place called Ray Ray's Tacos in St.

Nikki:

Helena.

Nikki:

Shout out to Ray Ray herself.

Nikki:

We got to meet the owner and she is killing it.

Nikki:

Go by, check out their four awesome salsas and their queso is delicious.

Nikki:

And yes, we had wine.

Nikki:

Fisher Family Rosé was a beautiful pairing with the tacos.

Nikki:

So, if you're wondering how you can get involved, again, it doesn't have to be fancy.

Nikki:

Like we talked about, visit comeoveroctober.

Nikki:

com.

Nikki:

There are entertaining ideas there if you need to feel inspired.

Nikki:

But just spend time with the people that you love, sit at the bar, make friends, and have and allow wine to bring people together as it does so beautifully.

Nikki:

When you have your gatherings, and it could be just two of you at home with a bottle, use the hashtag, come over October, help the momentum to build.

Nikki:

And again, if you're in the tri state area, like Karen said, visit Times Square, take a picture with the billboard, Or the naked cowboy.

Nikki:

Or both, but really just the billboard.

Nikki:

And make sure again to tag on Instagram ComeOverOctober and you'll be in a drawing to win a signed copy of the Wine Bible, which I have sitting right here on my desk as I record this.

Nikki:

As always, if you want to be an angel and support the podcast, there is a link in the show notes to do so.

Nikki:

I will put all the links for ComeOverOctober in there as well, so you don't have to try to remember all of that.

Nikki:

And whatever you do as always, but extra, especially for this month, I hope that you sip well.

Nikki:

Fun Sip With Nikki Music: Papa Dada, Pada, Padal, Papalala Papa Dada Papa Dada Papa Dada

Nikki:

Bye, bye for now.

Nikki:

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Nikki:

wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow

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