From helping struggling students to cherishing sweet victories, we explore the profound effect of genuine human bonds and the crucial role of vulnerability in connection for those we help, and for ourselves. Here’s a front-row seat to the realities and commitments of our journey of compassion…and to how Casi's passion took her on a bear hunt.
Just a Note: this is an uncensored show full of our personal opinions. So you will hear us cuss sometimes.
We keep our community and show ad free and open to helpers, your investment will help to directly build the brave space we all need. Support Being the Work by
And remember, we're not YOUR helpers. Everything here is our opinion and is intended to support you, not give professional advice. Get the help you need, when you need it, where you need it. Here are a few resources for mental health support for you and those you love:
National Alliance on Mental Illness
So I'm super excited to have my good friend Casi on the podcast today.
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:Thank you so much for being
here and for hosting us.
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:I'm
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:Casi: excited to have
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:Blakely: you.
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:Usually in getting started with
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:people, one or the other of us is sort of
bringing that person to the conversation.
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:And I'm assuming that
most of our listeners.
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:So just to set a little bit of shorthand
in the beginning, I like to ask people
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:to give us a rundown of some of those,
um, elements of your personality.
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:If you know your Enneagram or your MBTI,
even your astrological sign, I think those
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:start to patch together what we, at least
how we see ourselves and what some of
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:Casi: our instincts are.
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:Well, my name is Casi.
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:Um, I am a mom first and foremost.
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:I'm also a school counselor and have
been so for the last seven years.
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:I was a high school teacher prior to that
for about eight years, which is kind of
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:what led me to be a school counselor,
but I guess we'll get into that later.
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:Yeah.
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:Um, okay.
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:First of all, I love taking
all those quizzes and reading
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:about all those things.
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:Ben: It's so much fun.
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:Casi: I am a Virgo baby.
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:Okay.
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:And so a lot of that comes
up with perfectionism.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And we'll be like, oh yeah,
that resonates with her.
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:I am also an I N F J.
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:I am also a two with a Wing three
for an Enneagram, so a helper and.
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:Ben: That fits.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:That fits.
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:Blakely: People talk a lot of shit
about astrology, but it's funny how it
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:all kind of comes together because INFJ
kind of sums up the Virgo personality.
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:I think so too.
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:My understanding, at least is this like
achieving perfectionist, deep feeling
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:oftentimes feeling Uh, different,
lonely in that mix of intensity,
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:Casi: I think.
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:Yeah, it's like we have this
deep desire to be loved and to
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:belong and to be enough, but
oftentimes we don't necessarily
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:know how to go out into the world.
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:Blakely: Yeah.
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:To find the tribe.
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:Yes.
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:Yeah.
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:Okay.
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:Ben: Okay.
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:Uh, wow.
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:You're impressive, Blakely.
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:Mm.
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:You just like, you have all that stuff
just like in your head and I love it.
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:I'm here for it.
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:Seeing Casi, you nod
along with all of that.
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:I'm like, okay, I'm
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:Blakely: learning.
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:Oh, and that's why I like to ask this
question too, because it's just me spit
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:balling what I know about these random
pieces of who you feel like you are.
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:And then Ben has actually been around
you and has a relationship with you and
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:has kind of observed you in the wild.
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:Yeah.
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:Ben: So it's funny how
it all comes together.
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:So Casi and I met in our PhD And,
uh, I think we had online classes
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:before we actually knew each other,
and then like, we knew each other
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:after reading each other's work for a
long time, for like a whole semester.
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:And then, our, our cohort just
like bonded super strong, and.
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:I mean, it was like, then the pandemic
happened and everything, and we just, I
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:don't know, stuck together through it all.
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:Like, having
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:Casi: that sense of
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:Ben: community was huge.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah, for sure.
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:It's a huge reason why I want to do this.
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:Right?
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:Like, like we have so much in common
and so much that bonds us that we just
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:need to learn more about each other.
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:It's helped my self care a ton.
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:Yeah,
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:Casi: I love listening to the podcast.
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:Uh, the things that come to mind
when I do listen to you both is
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:one, how knowledgeable you both are.
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:Two, how raw and real,
just how comforting.
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:Mm.
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:This whole process is, um, I actually
look forward to when you release them.
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:Ben: Wow.
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:Thank you.
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:Spread the word.
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:That film makes me feel warm.
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:I like that.
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:Thank you.
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:So take us back to the beginning.
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:What, what were key moments that you
remember that show signs of you wanting
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:to be a helper or feeling deeply, or,
uh, like what were the hurts, the joys?
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:That brought you a desire
to help other people.
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:And I
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:Casi: think it was always within
me, um, share a really funny story.
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:And I vaguely remember doing this, but
I have three older siblings who like to
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:share sometimes interesting stories about
our childhood, but I would, we lived on a
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:farm and I had a tricycle, you know, the
really awesome ones that had the seats
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:that lifted up and you could put things
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:Ben: in.
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:Oh yeah, sure.
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:Sure.
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:Casi: So on a farm,
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:Blakely: you find things,
so many discoveries for your
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:little seat compartment.
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:Exactly.
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:You got
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:Casi: it.
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:Oh boy.
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:And I, I was just trying to love them
and nurture all the things I would find
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:and put in my little seat compartment.
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:And then, you know, sometimes
they would not survive.
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:And so then we'd have to
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:Ben: go through, you're
talking about living things.
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:Like
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:Casi: little animals.
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:You'd find, I just wanted to love them.
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:Like what like
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:Ben: birds, you put a bird
in your, in your tricycle.
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:Yeah, . Okay.
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:Casi: So like they'd be there, you know,
and Uhhuh and I don't really necessarily
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:remember, but my siblings make fun
of me all the time for it because How
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:Ben: old are you?
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:Tricycle age?
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:Yeah, , thank you.
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:With the cool
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:Blakely: seat
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:Casi: you guys, yeah.
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:That's a key
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:Blakely: component.
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:Uh, no,
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:Ben: that young specific
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:Blakely: You're of the,
what, like early nineties
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:.
Ben: You're coming across these.
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:Lovable creatures and you want
to love them just like all of the
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:cartoons that you had watched.
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:Yeah.
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:Blakely: Oh, yeah.
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:This is very Lenny and George, right?
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:Casi: Oh, I don't know that one.
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:That wasn't on PBS.
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:I didn't see it.
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:Ben: I Lived on a farm in Iowa
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:Blakely: doesn't matter.
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:Anyway, he had like these pets
that he would accidentally
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:Hurt in wanting to love them.
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:Yeah, sure.
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:Ben: Sure.
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:Casi: So, and another piece is we would
watch like America's Funniest Home Videos.
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:Sure.
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:And everybody would laugh so
hard when people would get hurt.
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:And I just never found that to be funny.
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:And then, so then I
would get a lot of heat.
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:Oh, yes.
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:Because like, why aren't you laughing?
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:Like you have no sense of
humor, blah, blah, blah.
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:I'm like those poor people.
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:Blakely: Well, yeah.
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:Like how hurt are they?
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:Yeah.
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:And like,
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:Casi: did anybody else
talk to him about that?
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:Well, like everybody's laughing at you.
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:Blakely: Right.
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:And so that's a double hit.
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:You're hurting.
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:You have that empath hurt
for the other person.
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:And then you have that vulnerable
exposure of yourself that gets
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:picked at in your family too.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Casi: Yeah.
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:So that's another key component when
looking back about who I was as a child.
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:Sure.
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:Ben: Sure.
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:Um, Like you could, do you
remember feeling that hurt?
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:Or the concern, like, how did
that concern, do you remember
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:what that felt like for you?
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:Casi: Yeah, I was, one, concerned
for the people who were being
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:hurt, right, through the videos.
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:But then I was also very
concerned my people around
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:me, my family, were laughing.
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:Yeah.
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:And then it was weird to me when they're
like, well, why aren't you laughing?
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:So I felt very, like, I
should be doing this thing.
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:Yeah, but it doesn't feel right.
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:Ben: Interesting.
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:Blakely: I mean, that's a really
early experience of that lonely state.
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:Separateness.
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:Like it's me and them in my own family.
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:Yeah.
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:Ben: And, and kind of through
sort of a, uh, justice, you
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:want to help fix that injustice.
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:But then the power of the
community is telling you, no,
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:you're the one that's wrong.
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:Damn.
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:Like I've, I watched you
advocate for us as students.
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:When you get something that you are
passionate about, You sort of attack it.
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:I've observed a passion in you to help
other people through advocacy and justice.
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:And I'm curious just what personally
has motivated that in you?
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:Cause I know that obviously we're
talking about something just naturally
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:arising in you as, as a toddler.
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:Casi: Yeah, I have a really great
girlfriend and, uh, that I grew
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:up with and her and I would always
refer to it as my inner flame.
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:Hmm.
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:Wow.
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:I've always been a very passionate person.
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:I'm more of, okay.
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:So like I will sit back and observe,
but then if it becomes like.
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:I like feel a bubble up within me and
then I can't hold it in any longer.
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:Um, then my passion just shines.
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:Ben: So I know that you, um,
became a teacher because of some
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:teachers that were in your life.
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:I know that you became a helper for the
people you help for very specific reasons.
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:And I'm just curious what you would be.
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:Open to sharing with us about those.
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:So,
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:Casi: I personally was, um,
in mandated court therapy.
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:My parents divorced when I was four.
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:And so, the court required my
siblings and I to go to therapy.
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:And Again, I don't remember all the
exact specifics, but I do always
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:remember that therapist was not helpful.
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:Like I felt that, um, my siblings
and I have kind of talked about it
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:later on and we would kind of mock the
techniques that therapist was using.
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:Um, but really what we learned
through that therapy was tell the
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:therapist what they want to know.
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:So we can wrap it up so we don't
have to go anymore and we can kind
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:of do our own thing and it worked.
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:I also had some experiences with
school counselors who weren't great
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:and caused more harm than good.
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:So some of those Things, those experiences
in my life, I think helped me want
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:to protect others who maybe didn't
always have a voice of their own.
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:And sometimes I feel like I
do the work I do because I
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:didn't always have that voice.
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:And I wish maybe somebody could
have had that voice for me when I
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:didn't have that voice at that time.
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:Ben: Where did you find?
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:It seems to me like you're talking
about there wasn't a sense of safety.
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:Yeah, there wasn't a sense of trust
and That mainly the adults in your
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:life were not very trustworthy until
I found the adults that work Exactly.
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:That's where I'm going with this.
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:So that paired with your inner fire Yeah.
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:Seems super, super important.
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:Yeah.
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:Casi: So I had a lot of
great teachers growing up.
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:Um, one in particular was one of
my high school teachers who was
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:actually one of my fax teachers who
inspired me to become a fax teacher.
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:Her name is Mrs.
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:Still.
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:Shout out to Mrs.
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:Still.
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:And
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:Ben: tell me what fax is.
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:Family and consumer sciences.
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:Family and consumer science.
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:Okay.
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:Okay.
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:Yeah.
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:I'm like,
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:Casi: so we talked about
like family systems.
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:They teach
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:Ben: you how to use a fax machine.
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:Blakely: Not quite.
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:Uh,
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:Ben: so we talked a lot about.
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:like home ec.
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:Oh, that's like calling
a school counselor.
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:Oh, dang.
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:Sorry, sorry, sorry.
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:I just offended people.
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:My bad.
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:It's ignorance.
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:Teach me.
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:Teach me.
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:Yeah.
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:It's all right.
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:Sorry.
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:I forgive you.
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:Um, family and consumer science.
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:Yeah.
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:Okay.
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:Casi: So we talked a lot about family
systems and she was just the type
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:of educator who saw you as a human
and not just a student, who knew you
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:had stuff and was willing to listen.
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:Like I truly felt, heard,
seen, accepted, loved by her.
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:Um, she was the type of educator who
would open up her doors before or after
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:class time, um, who would check in on you.
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:Yeah.
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:Um, so I really appreciate her.
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:I also had a school counselor when
I was in high school, uh, Mrs.
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:Shea.
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:Shout out to Mrs.
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:Shea, um, who just kind
of helped you see the big
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:Blakely: picture.
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:Oh, yeah.
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:Casi: And kind of got you thinking
outside of a small town, Iowa.
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:Ben: Mrs.
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:Still helped you feel safe.
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:Yes.
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:And honored your individuality and saw
you as a unique human being and not
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:just a student she needed to teach.
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:Correct.
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:She didn't see you as a transaction.
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:Yeah.
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:Uh, she opened her door to you,
both before and after, uh, class.
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:She created a sense of safety
in the class, a sense of
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:well being and belonging.
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:And, Mrs...
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:Mrs.
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:Shea.
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:Mrs.
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:Blakely: Shea.
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:Mrs.
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:Shea showed you that you weren't trapped.
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:Ben: Yeah.
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:Oh, yeah.
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:She
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:Blakely: also...
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:That's a bit familiar to me, too.
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:Ben: Yeah, yeah.
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:Small town Iowa, small town
Oklahoma is about the same.
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:Small
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:Blakely: towns are small
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:Ben: towns.
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:Yeah.
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:How did Mrs.
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:Shea help you see outside
of the small town?
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:Outside of the farm?
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:Casi: Yeah, she...
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:When I was in high school and kind
of dating myself here a little bit,
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:um, college credit was just kind
of becoming a thing in high school.
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:And she really advocated for us
to start taking those electives.
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:So we would kind of have a
step up, um, exploring options.
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:I remember, um, talking to her about like
what your passions were and different
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:fields that you could pursue, but
also talking to her about the heavy.
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:Oh yeah.
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:And I really appreciated.
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:That she did not give me the same
experience as other helping professionals,
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:where she kept that confidential,
um, and she really kind of helped
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:empower me, which I really appreciated.
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:Actually, um, a group of my friends, when
she gave birth to her first child, we
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:drove up to see her, um, in the hospital.
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:Oh, cool.
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:Yeah.
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:Blakely: Yeah.
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:That's
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:Ben: amazing.
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:Yeah.
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:Wow.
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:That's cool.
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:What was it that you started to
see outside, like, what were you
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:shooting for, like, after high school?
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:Because she started getting you prepared
to do college in high school, so you
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:would go into college with some credit.
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:Like, what were you aiming for?
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:Was it to escape being trapped?
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:Was it...
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:To learn how to help people to
become a teacher like what was that?
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:Casi: Yeah, so she also Like I
spent most of my senior year at
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:the elementary Learn like working
with the PE teacher, which I loved.
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:Hmm loved I also Became like a mentor
to some fifth grade students, which
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:I really loved too So I knew I wanted
to work with people in some capacity.
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:Yeah, I just didn't know necessarily
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:Blakely: What capacity or what
capacity was even available to you?
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:Yeah.
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:Casi: Yeah.
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:I mean, there are so many options
and I'm even now I'm like, Oh,
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:that would have been a cool career.
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:Right.
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:Right.
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:Blakely: I feel like I
still stumble into that.
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:Right.
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:Casi: Um, so I think that was
a huge component, just that
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:exposure, that early exposure.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And taking those experiences
and helping guide my direction.
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:I will also say I did talk about Mrs.
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:Shea and Mrs.
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:Still.
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:Like I had phenomenal coaches, um,
there was a family who I babysat for who
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:became my family, my friends, parents.
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:I mean, there was a lot of solid people
in my world that I would take little
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:beats and bits and pieces from, um, that
I truly loved and admired about them.
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:Blakely: I think it's always remarkable
when, especially with how young we
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:can be, when we start to feel the
gap and what we need, like not being
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:presented to us and how we go in
pursuit of it and find it anyway.
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:It's impressive.
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:Ben: My guess is that most of us had pain
that we don't want other people to go
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:through or that if they are going through,
we can be sort of a safe spot, uh, a.
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:Kind of respite, uh, a guide to healing
and I don't know, and that seems like
397
:that's just on my mind right now.
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:Casi: Yeah.
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:Like I always think back to one of
my favorite children's books and
400
:it's we're going on a bear hunt.
401
:Yeah.
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:You can't go over it, you can't go
under it, you gotta go through it.
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:And I want to be the person who
goes through it with those people.
404
:Ben: You want to go on the bear hunt.
405
:Casi: I want to go on
the bear hunt with them.
406
:I don't want them to feel lonely.
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:Blakely: Well, I mean,
it's, it's a worthy pursuit.
408
:I just, I don't know how people find
themselves in healing places if you
409
:haven't had to heal, because if you've
had to heal, then you know, the value of
410
:healing, you know, the experience of it.
411
:And you, many of us, I
think, feel drawn to be.
412
:A part of that over and over and
over again, even if it's not for
413
:ourselves, just to be alongside the
process of going on the bear hunt.
414
:We don't have to shoot the bear.
415
:I don't have to do all of
it, but I can bear witness.
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:Ben: I'm curious what you
guys think about this.
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:So I was listening to an
episode of On Purpose with Jay
418
:Shetty and Trevor Noah was on.
419
:He was asking Trevor like, where is home?
420
:How do you know what home is?
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:And having to move a lot of different
places in his life and how not being
422
:able to not knowing what it's like to
lose a place and then get familiar with
423
:a new place is it expands your mind.
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:I, I remember going, Oh
my God, this is what I do.
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:as a helper.
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:And what I've learned from a very deep,
rich place, I go on journeys all the
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:time to learn and be curious and to not
grab on and control or judge what I'm
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:hearing, but just to say, this is what is.
429
:I don't know why it is in your life.
430
:I don't know why the pain has happened.
431
:I don't know where you've come from, but
I'm here to learn and that exploration and
432
:the openness necessary to become familiar
with what you're not familiar with is
433
:rare, is courageous, is courageous.
434
:The thing that, This is the
thing that makes the traditional
435
:self care shit shitty.
436
:I feel manipulated and I feel
advertised to and sold to and as if
437
:I am a product or a consumer that
just needs to consume a product.
438
:Whether that's an actual product that
I have to purchase or if that's a
439
:training I have to buy or a retreat I
have to attend, uh, or a coping skill I
440
:need to get better at whatever that is.
441
:You don't see me as a human.
442
:You're not willing to see me as a full,
complex, wonderful, but also shitty
443
:person, like, and so when I ask for
real feedback, I am not asking for
444
:praise, I am asking for, see me as,
Oh, that is what this is all about.
445
:Like this is what we are here for.
446
:I say, don't put me in a box.
447
:You were saying earlier, Casi, this
is off mic, but you were saying
448
:that, um, you're no princess.
449
:Something to that effect.
450
:. Um-huh . And I don't know where exactly
where I'm going with this, but it really
451
:is sort of like being, not being seen.
452
:And I just want to ask you to
comment on that experience.
453
:Casi: I think people, society tells you
at a very young age who you're supposed
454
:to be, and they do put you in a box.
455
:And when you don't want to be in that
box, you make others uncomfortable.
456
:And sometimes making people
feel uncomfortable isn't safe.
457
:Whether it be physical safety
or emotional safety, financially
458
:safe, like all the ways.
459
:So I
460
:was talking about, um, my
daughter's a lot like me to
461
:where we're not a certain thing.
462
:And I have taught her.
463
:Ben: A princess.
464
:Yeah, you be.
465
:You're not a certain princess.
466
:Casi: Yeah.
467
:Mm hmm.
468
:Like, you can be who you want to be.
469
:And if you want to dress up and look
beautiful one day and heels, you do that.
470
:Go for it.
471
:If you want to play football in the
backyard and get muddy, you do that.
472
:Mm hmm.
473
:Ben: Like, don't put me in a box.
474
:Be fucking powerful.
475
:Yeah.
476
:Yeah.
477
:Like, let me be who I am.
478
:When
479
:Blakely: we talk so much about living a
good life and a lot of that is prescribed
480
:to us of what that is defined by.
481
:And that's what I think are just the
trappings of those expectations of
482
:consumerism, of capitalism, of you
have to buy another thing in order
483
:to be what you're supposed to be.
484
:We, like, raise your hand if you've worked
in a space where we call our clients,
485
:customers, consumers, that they're
literally here in mental health treatment.
486
:Consuming, gobbling up resources.
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:We need to just remind
everyone all the time of that.
488
:That this is a thing, a tangible
thing that is being handed
489
:out to these sick people.
490
:Like, we don't have to be a certain thing.
491
:Ben: Compassion is not between
the helper and the wounded,
492
:I think is how PEMA says it.
493
:It's between equals.
494
:Which is, to me, doesn't mean that
you can't be a helper, but it's that
495
:you are a human helping a human first.
496
:Yep.
497
:And your expertise or
your skill comes second.
498
:And, like, we're not mechanics.
499
:We're not mechanics.
500
:Someone
501
:Blakely: asked me the other day
in this, like, what would you do?
502
:Like it was that tone, Ben, what
would you do if you found out
503
:a client had been lying to you?
504
:This is someone who's
not in our profession,
505
:Ben: by the way.
506
:I'm like, do you want me to answer?
507
:I laugh.
508
:This is what I do all the time.
509
:Hold on.
510
:Blakely: I happen to like
working with people with
511
:borderline personality disorder.
512
:First and foremost, lies are there.
513
:They're just there because everybody
likes getting an A in therapy.
514
:So fibs happen.
515
:Forgetfulness happens.
516
:You forget why you're there.
517
:Even if I ask you, how's your week been?
518
:Oh, good.
519
:Uhhuh.
520
:We're so programmed that even in the
therapy room, people will give you, right?
521
:The canned, easy, simple, nice answer.
522
:Well,
523
:Casi: it's also hard.
524
:The work is hard.
525
:Yeah!
526
:And, and sometimes I don't feel like it.
527
:Blakely: So, I'm fine.
528
:Don't ask more because
I don't have the energy.
529
:I'm fine.
530
:Like, lies are so many different shades
that this question just blew me away.
531
:And the intensity of how they were
asking, like, I don't have the authority
532
:to make people tell me the truth.
533
:They tell me what they tell me.
534
:Right.
535
:Sometimes I challenge it
and sometimes I go with it.
536
:Right.
537
:It depends on the context.
538
:Huge context of me being
a part of their life.
539
:Ben: Yeah.
540
:There was a, a teacher.
541
:Who was it?
542
:Can't remember, but he said
something that was profound to me.
543
:He said, um, we are not
social change agents.
544
:And he said, that's, that's a probation
offer and I go, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
545
:That's right.
546
:That's right.
547
:I'm not, I'm not here to control you.
548
:I'm here to show up for you, you
know, and I'll help to prompt the
549
:way to change, but I'm not here
to, to grab on and to manipulate.
550
:I don't have truth serum.
551
:Right.
552
:And that's, yeah.
553
:And that like, yeah, I'm not a mechanic.
554
:I'm not twisting bolts.
555
:Um, I'm a human.
556
:I'm a human helper, and very similarly,
like, I got into this work because
557
:of my own sense of loneliness,
and my own sense of, I don't know,
558
:knowing that that's a problem.
559
:And so, um, like a lot of stuff was
happening in the background where I
560
:didn't know exactly how influential
like addiction and, um, like depression,
561
:anxiety, ADHD stuff was really happening.
562
:Like it was, it was all influential from
my family and I didn't realize really
563
:I'm still learning about how that is.
564
:Influential in like lineage, not just,
not just like my immediate family stuff.
565
:But yeah, like, just the, there's
a problem, I can sense it, um, I
566
:don't like it when it happens to me.
567
:I'm going to help the people, and I think
that this, this, we have this sense of
568
:willingness to go into the bear hunt.
569
:The willingness to go into the burning
building, the willingness to go into
570
:the scary, uh, different ways of living
and thinking, and I think that it's not
571
:really known how disorienting that can be.
572
:Um, like, there's no fire to burn you.
573
:Where there's nothing that you can, you
can see, I can't explain, hey, it's like
574
:going into a fire, where, and a person
understand, oh, I understand heat, I
575
:understand how, how hot fire can get,
that would cause me to burn, and it would
576
:cause a scar, and it would cause a lot of
external problems that are easily visible,
577
:but we're not, the things that I have gone
through, like the compassion fatigue, That
578
:I've experienced, the, the trauma, the
secondary traumatic stress, the nightmares
579
:of the nightmares, the physical sensations
that I wake up with out of sleep.
580
:Um, that's not easily conveyable.
581
:Like, it's really difficult.
582
:And I think that's why the,
the, this is just another reason
583
:why the canned self care shit.
584
:Is shit, right?
585
:Like, it is very difficult to, to
heal this like willingness to go
586
:get hurt to help someone and how
twisty that can make our minds.
587
:And our perspectives of life.
588
:Your dad is an educator, right?
589
:Blakely: You, you just talked about
this, like going into people's minds in
590
:almost like an academic kind of sense,
which is a Ben mode kind of thing.
591
:That's, that's a Ben thing.
592
:But follow me.
593
:Yeah.
594
:Where did the bear hunt song
or book come from for you?
595
:Like the very first time I think after
I had kids and you're using the The
596
:bear hunt, something tied directly
to childhood, your own children, your
597
:like role in identity as a mother.
598
:I talk about it as going
into the burning building.
599
:My early influences being the observations
I had of helpers was my dad was a fireman.
600
:And so like the toll that would take
on him and also the intensity and the
601
:excitement that he would have from it.
602
:And the, this rule smelt like,
I have very, very, very specific
603
:associations with that description.
604
:And so even to take the work that we're
doing, the, the analogies that we use
605
:to describe how intense it is to try to
get someone else to connect with what
606
:we, what we feel when we're in that that
intimate space with someone else that
607
:we're helping someone innocent, someone
in pain, someone in these, These, these
608
:states of being that so many of us want
to cringe and hide and tell ourselves
609
:we're invincible to that we're there
with, we even hold within ourselves
610
:the descriptions based on the things
that we personally feel so intensely
611
:close to that have been such intense
influences on us in a lifelong way.
612
:Like, did you always want to be a mom?
613
:Did you know that that, that
specific nurturing piece was in you?
614
:Alongside the flame.
615
:Like, you're tying the things together.
616
:This is how we know
that this is who we are.
617
:It's not just what we do.
618
:Ooh!
619
:And I'm just really, really
struck by the ways that we...
620
:That was beautiful.
621
:It was, it gave me chills as everyone
was talking about it, and I realized
622
:what was coming together to me.
623
:Goosebumps!
624
:Yeah.
625
:Cause when we talk about this,
I always go back to this, this
626
:childhood place of like, I can
smell smoke when we talk about it.
627
:When my dad comes in the house.
628
:And he's been out like
all night at a fire.
629
:It's a sensation that is always with me.
630
:Probably leads us into the next
phase of this conversation.
631
:Like, what is...
632
:What is your wiring?
633
:What is your system?
634
:What is you, as you launch into it and
you realize the realities of working
635
:in the public school system, I'm going
to guess, how did you have to adjust?
636
:How did, what did you, what
life raft did you cling to first
637
:when it starts to get real?
638
:Casi: So when I'm with students
going through the mud, um, my first
639
:and foremost priority is them.
640
:But.
641
:I also have a team and I rely
heavily on my team now and your
642
:team is solid great things get done.
643
:Absolutely.
644
:Kids get helped and that's what matters.
645
:That's why we're in the business we're in.
646
:And yes, it kind of takes a toll on
you at times, but it was worth it.
647
:All the hard was worth it
because that student got the
648
:help they needed and that's
649
:Ben: all that matters.
650
:I'm thinking about a case that you talked
about once that, I mean, literally you
651
:were getting beat up almost every day.
652
:How did you get through that?
653
:Like, what kept you there,
um, kept you going back?
654
:Because I remember telling you,
like, literally I wanted you to stop.
655
:I wanted you to stop
getting hurt every day.
656
:And you were like...
657
:No.
658
:That's
659
:great.
660
:Blakely: I've seen Ben leaned way too
far in on one of those cases before.
661
:It happens to all of us.
662
:Right.
663
:Even as you're talking, I can think of
like the clients that I overworked for
664
:just pissed about it because I'm gonna.
665
:But I'm curious what your answer is,
but we've all been in that, like,
666
:I'm going to push through this.
667
:I don't care what anybody
thinks or does or what my own
668
:boundaries should probably be.
669
:Ben: I'm not going to stop.
670
:Yeah.
671
:Blakely: Yeah.
672
:It's a mission.
673
:Casi: Who else would show up for the kid?
674
:I cared so deeply about that
kid and still do to this day.
675
:Still check up on him.
676
:Yep.
677
:Like, and the system we're in, we're
not really built to handle some
678
:of the cases that are presenting.
679
:Right.
680
:Um, so in this situation, we were getting
the student the resources they needed.
681
:We were getting the help they needed.
682
:It's just a long process.
683
:Um, and not everybody is capable
of doing the things, right.
684
:Blakely: So process itself, I mean, even
the patients of how long that can take.
685
:Right.
686
:Casi: And when students are physically
violent, not everybody can handle that.
687
:And so.
688
:How's it going to go on the bear hunt?
689
:Blakely: We're already on the hunt.
690
:By the time I'm getting kicked,
we're already on the hunt.
691
:Yeah.
692
:Casi: I'm already there.
693
:And you know, honestly, my thought process
with all of that is if I'm there when
694
:it starts, I want to be there when it
finishes because that restorative work
695
:after the fact is so critical for me and
our relationship and for that student.
696
:Like that part is essential.
697
:Ben: How is that essential
698
:Casi: for you?
699
:I think that the whole process, right?
700
:Like it's truly going
through the messiness of it.
701
:But after the fact I'm showing that kid
I'm here, we made it through together.
702
:I love you.
703
:Let's do the repair work.
704
:We're going to start fresh.
705
:I want them to know that through
the heart of it, I'm not giving up
706
:Ben: on them.
707
:I know how that story ended where it
did come out on a really amazing side
708
:and that you, you two were able to
have such a wonderful last day for him.
709
:I think you were saying that you just like
had a really special day for him and, and
710
:you walked him out to his mom and you were
holding hands, just not saying anything.
711
:He
712
:Casi: said to me, I want to give you half
my heart so you'll always remember me.
713
:like, whoa, waterworks,
714
:Blakely: but
715
:Casi: like, if you only knew.
716
:And so, yes, when we were walking and
like, it was such a fun, amazing day.
717
:And he told his mom, this
is the best day ever.
718
:And that's the goal.
719
:Like I wanted him to feel so much love.
720
:And he told me that, um, he's
like, you know, I love you.
721
:Right.
722
:And the waterworks again.
723
:So.
724
:The things that we went through,
I mean, like on my birthday,
725
:he punched me in my face.
726
:Blakely: Sorry.
727
:I go from like, Oh, I'm a little like
teary to, yeah, punched in the face.
728
:This, I mean, that's, this is what we do.
729
:Yep.
730
:Yeah.
731
:All that.
732
:Spit and then you get punched.
733
:Yeah.
734
:Casi: So like, we've been through the
hard together and it didn't matter.
735
:Like I was still going to show up for him.
736
:If anybody was working with him, I
wanted to be the one working with him.
737
:I wanted to be going through the heart
with him because I knew I could love
738
:him on the other end and throughout.
739
:Not everybody has that capability.
740
:Ben: This is what's, I don't
know, it's very special.
741
:It's incredibly special.
742
:Blakely: Like that last day was,
was a, was a period on the end of a
743
:very long sentence it sounds like.
744
:Like there was a lot of things
that led up to that, but you
745
:weren't there for that day.
746
:Like you're, you're not
in it because of that day.
747
:You're not in it because he loves you.
748
:You're not in it because he, you know,
like that connecting moment happened.
749
:That's part of it.
750
:The whole process of being able to see
him through and not abandon him at his
751
:worst and show him that he can be loved
and repair and fix and not be just
752
:completely ruined by a bad shitty day.
753
:That's the thing.
754
:It's the day you get punched in
the face that matters just as much
755
:as the day that he holds your hand
and tells you that you're amazing.
756
:Absolutely.
757
:Ben: Is that sort of like a key,
key thing to stay quote unquote
758
:professional through this whole thing?
759
:For the reason that I want to be in this
work or that I am in this work is because
760
:of an experience of loving responsibility.
761
:And as I've said that, I've, as I
listened to myself saying that, I
762
:want to just make clear that it is
not that I love responsibility, okay?
763
:That I feel, I feel a state,
764
:I feel a state of loving, A state of
loving responsibility in terms of I
765
:cannot help but feel responsible because
of the love I experience and isn't the
766
:typical professional language that you
hear, but it's definitely a personal
767
:experience of this is why I'm here.
768
:And I think that this whole
conversation we've been talking about.
769
:Like professional and the
personal in being intertwined
770
:and we cannot untwine it.
771
:Yeah, right.
772
:Casi: So I feel like we care so deeply,
which is our greatest strength, but
773
:also maybe our kryptonite as well,
774
:Blakely: but that
775
:Casi: goes to the
776
:Blakely: self care piece,
777
:Casi: which how do we maintain
778
:Blakely: it?
779
:Well, and it's, it's hard to have
a, it's hard to have a clear view
780
:of it when there's so much mixed
messaging and the feedback we,
781
:we get about those deep feelings.
782
:Like not only do you feel deeply and
not only is that helpful to a lot of
783
:people, it's also very inconvenient to
people and you're supposed to pack it
784
:up, take it away, do some self care and
come back when you can be cool again.
785
:Right.
786
:When you need, as a, as a person who
is, is stepping up to other people's
787
:needs, when you need, people freak out.
788
:Yeah.
789
:It's like they feel like.
790
:That's not your role.
791
:It's not your role.
792
:And if I'm looking to you for help
and you need help, then I need
793
:help so much I can't even manage.
794
:I can't even imagine what all I
need for help and holding all of
795
:that is just really burdensome.
796
:Ben: I also feel like when we bring
emotions and problems to our colleagues,
797
:we're always all coming at it in terms
of like, well, I have to fix this
798
:problem when really actually I just need.
799
:Someone to treat me like
a whole human being.
800
:You know, I don't need
you to fix my problems.
801
:I, I'm not looking for a mechanic.
802
:I'm looking for a listening ear.
803
:You
804
:Casi: want to
805
:Ben: be seen.
806
:You want to be heard.
807
:Exactly.
808
:It doesn't mean that I need you to invest,
like, tons of emotion into my problem.
809
:That is just, I, I want you
to be curious and not come at
810
:me with all, like, your tools.
811
:Blakely: Quit trying to dial up how fast
I can get past whatever the thing is.
812
:Ben: Exactly.
813
:Exactly.
814
:Like, I don't need, I don't
need your feelings chart.
815
:I don't need your, your.
816
:I love my feelings chart.
817
:Yeah, if I'm going through
something and you, ugh.
818
:Is this
819
:Blakely: despair?
820
:Or is this rage?
821
:But it's a rainbow wheel.
822
:It's so cute.
823
:It has little faces on it and everything.
824
:Ben: Let's face it.
825
:Casi: No, I think Ben, what you're talking
about, it's a time and place, right?
826
:Like in the moment,
you're just in the moment.
827
:You just want to be seen and heard.
828
:And then afterwards we can talk about.
829
:What feeling
830
:Ben: that was right after we get, um,
like licenses and diplomas, which we
831
:treat each other like we're just a
piece of paper or just a credential.
832
:We're not a person anymore.
833
:Like, I don't need to prove to you.
834
:What my credentials are, but also
I'm more than just that, right?
835
:Yeah.
836
:Casi: I will say, I feel there are some
people who do need those credentials and
837
:want to share them out with the world.
838
:Yeah.
839
:Um, and it's kind of like a competition.
840
:Uh, I know you guys had that
podcast earlier about competition.
841
:Ben: Yeah, I was going to ask.
842
:Um,
843
:Casi: but I feel like sometimes.
844
:That it could be
competitive for some people.
845
:Blakely: Absolutely, yeah.
846
:But I also, there's so much
performative, competitive
847
:Casi: stuff going on.
848
:And I will say, after I earned my Ph.
849
:D.
850
:What I found really interesting
is that was threatening to others.
851
:Oh,
852
:Blakely: absolutely.
853
:Casi: That I was not prepared for.
854
:Yeah.
855
:And it was so funny because
we just talked with one of our
856
:professors the other day and I said
that, and she's like, well, yeah.
857
:And I was like, pfft.
858
:Ben: Why didn't you say something then?
859
:Why didn't you didn't mention this.
860
:Right.
861
:Why wasn't that a lecture that you gave?
862
:Like.
863
:I've re
864
:Casi: received many.
865
:A few.
866
:Where was this one?
867
:Blakely: Right.
868
:Exactly.
869
:Like, here's remiss.
870
:Yeah.
871
:We need it anyway.
872
:Along the road anyway.
873
:Casi: So I do feel like
it's very important to them.
874
:Blakely: Like, it is what you
make of it, like anything else.
875
:If that piece of paper burns, you
still have what you got out of it.
876
:When they hand that to you,
that's not the end point.
877
:That's not some like, I have
the exact amount of knowledge
878
:that I will need going forward.
879
:I won't forget a single piece of it.
880
:I won't add to it.
881
:This, I got this and it's the end.
882
:It's the beginning, the middle and the
end right here in one piece of paper.
883
:We say that so often
about the piece of paper.
884
:And I think we just have to let
it go and be the, the versions
885
:of what we're going to be.
886
:I can tell you my credentials if
it gives you some sort of comfort
887
:Ben: as a client.
888
:Interesting.
889
:It reminds me of, like, the conversation
we had with Annis, where she was talking
890
:about the commitment to put herself
on the side of change that she wants
891
:to be on, and letting go of this idea
of being able to control it, and I
892
:mean, I think it's just a beautiful
blend of acceptance and change.
893
:And that's part of, for me, self
care, just loving myself and
894
:knowing and honoring my limits.
895
:Blakely: Well, we're, I mean,
we're improvement oriented.
896
:Yeah.
897
:What isn't about improvement?
898
:Every, like, we have reality shows that
are based on improving how you look.
899
:We have Entire channels based on
improving how your house looks.
900
:We have, I mean, you're
supposed to upgrade your car.
901
:You're supposed to upgrade your phone.
902
:The constant, like, improvement mindset
is ours as well because people land in our
903
:seats seeking some sort of improvement.
904
:Casi: But also the whole
self care industry.
905
:That's there, right?
906
:Because then we just feel we need this,
we need this, we need this, we need
907
:this, because this is what we're being
told we have to take care of ourselves,
908
:but we're really just spiraling deeper
because those things are very superficial.
909
:Absolutely.
910
:Like when I hear the term self care,
I immediately go to like, that is
911
:just one more thing that I'm not
good at and I'm not enough at.
912
:Yes.
913
:Right.
914
:But then, it really determines, like
it really depends on my lens of self
915
:care, not what the world is telling
916
:Blakely: me.
917
:Exactly.
918
:Ben: When it comes to being patient
with ourselves and understanding
919
:ourselves and loving ourselves, honoring
our limits, honoring our strengths,
920
:it is, it is frustrating to me.
921
:And ironically, a problem that I have of
not really embracing what I do well, or
922
:even wanting to talk about what I do well.
923
:This whole conversation, a lot of
times, Casi, you've talked about other
924
:people and not what you do well, right?
925
:Or the importance it is for you
or how real courageous you are and
926
:willing to go on that bear hunt.
927
:How amazing.
928
:What a commitment to that child
you gave that changed his life and
929
:changed yours in, in, in retro.
930
:He's holding your hand and stops you
and goes, you know I love you, right?
931
:Can you come see me?
932
:Can you come visit me?
933
:Can you come with me?
934
:Those kinds of things, you know,
you made a, you made a difference
935
:and, and you also know how hard
it was to make that difference.
936
:Like the, the nights of coming
home and treating your bruises.
937
:Casi: I'll also say that's where having
a team, and I know you guys have talked
938
:about this in your other podcasts, but
like really having that connection with
939
:people, the people you can go to and
lean in with who understand the work.
940
:That was probably the.
941
:Best soul care during that process.
942
:Um,
943
:Ben: why do you think, why not that?
944
:And why not like Peloton or, um, it's,
945
:Casi: it's not the
superficial stuff, right?
946
:It's the stuff that nurtures our soul.
947
:So connecting with people,
we've talked about yoga.
948
:Meditation, really looking
inward to ourselves and sitting
949
:with ourselves in the silence.
950
:That is where the work is done.
951
:Ben: Six hours a day, I do therapy, right?
952
:Six hours a day, I'm trying to
solve problems that I really don't
953
:have the solution for, right?
954
:Like.
955
:I've never lived a lot of these
problems, but I am trying to imagine
956
:what it's like, empathize what it's
like, run it through my lens of my
957
:theoretical stuff and the techniques
I could use, and I'm here for you.
958
:And that's a part of the answer.
959
:It's not just me being a technician and
giving you the thing so you can fix the
960
:problem, because it's not that simple.
961
:When there's no easy answer
I need people to turn to.
962
:Casi: Even when I brought the case, when
I first shared the case with you, by that
963
:time, it was almost a year into the case.
964
:Ben: And I was in the
middle of the pandemic.
965
:Yeah.
966
:Like I
967
:Casi: was just exhausted
and I was like crying.
968
:I was a blubbery mess, like
sharing this whole case.
969
:And I don't know.
970
:I don't know what more to do.
971
:I can help.
972
:And honestly, I didn't look for,
I wasn't looking for answers.
973
:I was just looking for the hand.
974
:Ben: And I wanted to jump in
and start like, You gotta leave.
975
:Blakely: We're used to consultation.
976
:Yeah.
977
:We're used to asking, What the
hell am I supposed to do here?
978
:Like, that's usually kind of what
we do, and you have 30 minutes,
979
:because we just have two cases.
980
:You leave with almost feeling like,
Oh, that's just a list of stuff
981
:that, um, a more list of stuff I'm
not doing, or that I'm doing wrong,
982
:or that I should have done six
983
:Casi: months ago, I guess.
984
:Once again, I'm not enough.
985
:Blakely: Of course that's defeating.
986
:Mm hmm.
987
:That's not validating.
988
:That's not encouraging.
989
:And yet it's those connections
that are the thing.
990
:They're the thing that you need.
991
:And so when those are hard, when you're
watching funniest videos with your family
992
:and they don't get it the way you get it,
when you're sitting with your team and
993
:struggling and breaking, breaking apart.
994
:And they don't see it, then it's a,
it's a similar loneliness, right?
995
:But when they do get it,
996
:Casi: Yeah, exactly.
997
:When they do get it, it is everything.
998
:And I kind of referenced this earlier,
but like, you're just running, right?
999
:You don't have the capacity
to stop and feel it all and
:
00:50:46,990 --> 00:50:48,140
to really work through it all.
:
00:50:48,750 --> 00:50:54,200
And I feel for four years during my
PhD program, I was in survival mode.
:
00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:00,870
And so I didn't always feel like I was
working a full time job going through
:
00:51:00,870 --> 00:51:03,210
the PhD program, being a single mom.
:
00:51:04,445 --> 00:51:07,485
Like I didn't always take the time.
:
00:51:08,575 --> 00:51:09,505
Blakely: Not on the list.
:
00:51:09,655 --> 00:51:10,105
Casi: Right.
:
00:51:10,265 --> 00:51:11,395
I didn't, I didn't have time.
:
00:51:12,325 --> 00:51:14,374
So I just didn't have the capacity.
:
00:51:14,385 --> 00:51:17,405
Blakely: The most efficient
thing though, is to put it aside.
:
00:51:17,774 --> 00:51:18,034
Right.
:
00:51:18,064 --> 00:51:18,785
That's just true.
:
00:51:18,835 --> 00:51:19,065
Yeah.
:
00:51:19,905 --> 00:51:22,504
Casi: Um, one, I think that's
really important that we need
:
00:51:22,504 --> 00:51:26,145
to have those discussions, which
that's what this is right here.
:
00:51:26,535 --> 00:51:29,715
Listening to your podcast has
been very beneficial for me.
:
00:51:30,765 --> 00:51:32,415
Um, sharing.
:
00:51:32,765 --> 00:51:36,245
Your experiences, but sometimes we're
not always, it's not always acceptable
:
00:51:36,615 --> 00:51:42,134
for us to share these experiences
and I feel we need to move away
:
00:51:42,135 --> 00:51:44,005
from that because we're feeling it.
:
00:51:44,095 --> 00:51:49,485
I don't know one pulper that does
not feel this at some capacity.
:
00:51:49,495 --> 00:51:53,765
And if we don't talk about it, then
there's this big internal ball of,
:
00:51:54,555 --> 00:51:55,915
Oh my gosh, am I doing it right?
:
00:51:55,925 --> 00:51:56,765
I'm not
:
00:51:56,795 --> 00:51:57,425
Ben: enough.
:
00:51:57,605 --> 00:51:59,155
I'm not professional enough.
:
00:51:59,735 --> 00:52:01,375
Oh, I'm going to get in trouble for this.
:
00:52:01,385 --> 00:52:01,565
And the
:
00:52:01,565 --> 00:52:05,685
Casi: shame, guilt, the,
all the things that occur.
:
00:52:05,695 --> 00:52:13,185
So I have really learned to really
start talking to others about
:
00:52:13,205 --> 00:52:16,144
the experience, which is hard.
:
00:52:16,365 --> 00:52:17,605
Like it's hard being vulnerable.
:
00:52:17,605 --> 00:52:21,575
It's hard finding the right
people to talk with as well.
:
00:52:22,295 --> 00:52:25,035
Blakely: Or because plenty of people
are in the place that you were in
:
00:52:25,555 --> 00:52:30,755
two years ago, three years ago,
whatever, that you really are putting
:
00:52:30,755 --> 00:52:34,374
on hold a lot of the thinking and
the feeling and the processing,
:
00:52:34,715 --> 00:52:37,054
because I have three main roles.
:
00:52:37,384 --> 00:52:41,720
I don't have room for another role to
be like, Woo woo taking care of me.
:
00:52:41,830 --> 00:52:42,880
I'm going to have to hold on.
:
00:52:42,910 --> 00:52:46,760
And there are just seasons of life that
were there that we, we can't make the
:
00:52:46,770 --> 00:52:48,460
real time to have a real conversation.
:
00:52:48,740 --> 00:52:51,920
Sometimes we can listen to other
people have the conversation.
:
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:56,679
And so making sure that you're cultivating
those people who aren't going to rush
:
00:52:56,679 --> 00:53:00,950
you or dismiss you or be so overloaded
with their own stuff that they can't
:
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:01,630
Ben: hear you.
:
00:53:01,790 --> 00:53:02,110
Yeah.
:
00:53:02,180 --> 00:53:03,490
Like tell you to get a hobby.
:
00:53:04,070 --> 00:53:04,920
Blakely: I tell you to get a hobby
:
00:53:08,170 --> 00:53:11,250
or some other way of making
you feel more lonely and more
:
00:53:11,250 --> 00:53:12,130
like it's your own problem.
:
00:53:12,525 --> 00:53:12,655
Go
:
00:53:12,655 --> 00:53:13,145
Ben: Gulf.
:
00:53:14,655 --> 00:53:15,255
Yeah, why not?
:
00:53:15,255 --> 00:53:15,505
Uh huh.
:
00:53:15,515 --> 00:53:16,355
Can you do that?
:
00:53:16,435 --> 00:53:16,715
Yeah.
:
00:53:16,735 --> 00:53:17,745
Get some fresh air.
:
00:53:18,645 --> 00:53:21,235
I'm not talking about anything particular.
:
00:53:21,635 --> 00:53:21,955
Blakely: No.
:
00:53:21,955 --> 00:53:22,305
Uh uh.
:
00:53:22,425 --> 00:53:25,635
And we have to call out each
other when it's time to really
:
00:53:25,665 --> 00:53:27,015
officially do our own work.
:
00:53:27,065 --> 00:53:29,364
I think that is our responsibility
that we carry around.
:
00:53:29,565 --> 00:53:36,465
And how often do we go to supervisors,
colleagues, other people in our profession
:
00:53:36,485 --> 00:53:39,675
to just talk through kind of what we're
feeling, and they make some pretty serious
:
00:53:39,685 --> 00:53:44,745
suggestions about I think this is your
own trauma history, and maybe you need
:
00:53:44,745 --> 00:53:45,875
to get back to doing your own work?
:
00:53:46,425 --> 00:53:49,445
Or do you need, um, a med adjustment?
:
00:53:49,465 --> 00:53:51,945
Are you sure that you're
managing your own depression,
:
00:53:51,945 --> 00:53:54,465
your own ADHD, your own anxiety?
:
00:53:54,485 --> 00:53:55,695
Are you managing those?
:
00:53:55,695 --> 00:53:59,075
Well, are you taking sleeping medication
since you're having nightmares
:
00:53:59,075 --> 00:54:01,825
about this client that I make you
keep and I won't let you change?
:
00:54:02,295 --> 00:54:08,575
Ben: Well, and that's the thing is the
entire system would be better served.
:
00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:18,550
With humans in mind and that is not
a Reality in most ways because let's
:
00:54:18,550 --> 00:54:19,910
be honest our health care system
:
00:54:19,910 --> 00:54:26,630
Blakely: isn't made with humans in mind
Our school system isn't made with you
:
00:54:28,740 --> 00:54:33,880
Ben: Are you know, this is exactly
what I'm getting at like we want things
:
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:40,485
that are easily digestible fast And,
and there's no real humanity there.
:
00:54:40,485 --> 00:54:51,105
There's, there's a transaction and there's
like simple sugary quick and that's all.
:
00:54:51,705 --> 00:54:51,945
It's
:
00:54:51,945 --> 00:54:52,255
Blakely: hard.
:
00:54:52,255 --> 00:54:58,935
And so we're talking about unpacking
all, I mean, a huge chunk of our
:
00:54:58,935 --> 00:55:04,245
expectation and our sense of normalcy
in how we deal with each other and
:
00:55:04,245 --> 00:55:08,185
how we deal as professionals and how
we, I mean, it's big, it's really big.
:
00:55:09,345 --> 00:55:10,285
Casi: Here's the deal.
:
00:55:10,495 --> 00:55:13,195
We are humans, and even us as adults.
:
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:19,440
Want to be seen, want to be heard,
want to have that reassurance that
:
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,400
we are enough, that we are safe.
:
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:23,870
And how does that occur?
:
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,460
Ben: Yeah, vulnerability, yeah.
:
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:27,860
Yeah,
:
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,840
Blakely: but I think even some of
the people in our field have fallen
:
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,190
into that trap of transactional
relationships with people.
:
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:34,650
Sure.
:
00:55:34,730 --> 00:55:38,130
You come to me seeking
information, not seeking healing.
:
00:55:38,370 --> 00:55:39,600
Or resources, yeah.
:
00:55:39,690 --> 00:55:41,270
Exactly, and sometimes that's...
:
00:55:41,590 --> 00:55:42,630
Sometimes we have to do that.
:
00:55:42,660 --> 00:55:43,440
We have to teach people.
:
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:44,360
We have to show them
:
00:55:44,550 --> 00:55:46,180
Ben: resources, referrals,
:
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,720
Blakely: where to go, what to do,
like the, the bones of it all.
:
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,650
But all of that has to have
some flesh on it or it's, it's
:
00:55:52,660 --> 00:55:56,190
not actually doing anything.
:
00:55:56,660 --> 00:55:56,890
It's not
:
00:55:56,890 --> 00:55:57,350
Casi: living.
:
00:55:58,180 --> 00:56:01,050
But without that flesh, without
that connection, without that
:
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:06,750
intimacy, it could feel like
they, they just don't want me.
:
00:56:07,170 --> 00:56:07,360
Yeah.
:
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:10,840
Ben: Right.
:
00:56:12,270 --> 00:56:15,630
You're just, you represent a
problem that I have to solve rather
:
00:56:15,630 --> 00:56:17,600
than a person I can connect with.
:
00:56:17,770 --> 00:56:18,040
Yeah.
:
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:18,119
Mmhmm.
:
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:18,420
Dismissive.
:
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:20,180
Mmhmm.
:
00:56:26,170 --> 00:56:27,360
Blakely: I love this question.
:
00:56:27,620 --> 00:56:28,900
And it doesn't have to be positive.
:
00:56:28,930 --> 00:56:29,920
That's the thing that
we all have to remember.
:
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:30,760
It doesn't have to be positive.
:
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:31,530
It's entertaining.
:
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:32,200
Remarkable.
:
00:56:32,380 --> 00:56:33,380
A representation.
:
00:56:33,675 --> 00:56:39,445
Books, TV movies, and pop culture of a
helper, of a counselor, of a therapist, of
:
00:56:39,445 --> 00:56:41,765
a social worker, of however you define us.
:
00:56:41,795 --> 00:56:45,005
Who do you see as your favorite in pop
:
00:56:45,005 --> 00:56:45,055
Casi: culture?
:
00:56:45,135 --> 00:56:45,525
My favorite.
:
00:56:45,525 --> 00:56:50,005
You know, so I just watched this
TV show called Shrinking on Apple
:
00:56:50,565 --> 00:56:50,665
Blakely: TV.
:
00:56:50,855 --> 00:56:52,305
This one keeps coming up
and I haven't watched it.
:
00:56:52,405 --> 00:56:55,715
Casi: Yeah, so it's truly
about them as humans.
:
00:56:56,055 --> 00:56:56,315
Yeah.
:
00:56:56,315 --> 00:57:00,235
They're therapists, but
it's showing them as humans.
:
00:57:01,205 --> 00:57:05,065
And they're, they practice differently
and sometimes unethically, um,
:
00:57:05,985 --> 00:57:12,125
but it's really showing that human
experience, which is cool to see.
:
00:57:12,215 --> 00:57:12,605
Yeah.
:
00:57:13,335 --> 00:57:16,815
As far as specifically school
counselors, I have not seen
:
00:57:16,815 --> 00:57:18,635
a positive school counselor
:
00:57:21,685 --> 00:57:22,115
ever.
:
00:57:22,215 --> 00:57:25,075
I don't believe they're often referred
to as guidance counselors, which
:
00:57:25,075 --> 00:57:26,815
is a huge no no in our profession.
:
00:57:27,375 --> 00:57:29,235
Um, they're often hurtful.
:
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:31,720
13 reasons why.
:
00:57:32,130 --> 00:57:32,380
Blakely: Yeah.
:
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:33,090
Oh.
:
00:57:33,100 --> 00:57:33,960
That one comes to mind really quickly.
:
00:57:34,010 --> 00:57:34,130
Yes.
:
00:57:34,130 --> 00:57:35,350
It's the only one I can think of.
:
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:35,600
Yeah, I forgot.
:
00:57:35,610 --> 00:57:35,900
Honestly, like,
:
00:57:36,730 --> 00:57:36,980
Casi: in
:
00:57:37,090 --> 00:57:37,680
Blakely: any.
:
00:57:37,700 --> 00:57:40,190
In the book, I think, in the book,
I think it was a little better.
:
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:44,520
Casi: And, and books and
movies and TV series.
:
00:57:44,810 --> 00:57:48,910
Like there's not a great representation
of a school counselor on what we do,
:
00:57:49,230 --> 00:57:53,280
which is heartbreaking because then
this is like a true representation of
:
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,190
how the world views our profession.
:
00:57:55,870 --> 00:57:58,110
Um, and it, don't get me wrong.
:
00:57:59,390 --> 00:58:02,310
We have a ways to go to
advocate for what we do.
:
00:58:03,020 --> 00:58:07,520
Um, as school counselors, we've
come a long way, but there's
:
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:08,760
still such a long way to come.
:
00:58:09,300 --> 00:58:11,340
You know, your inner fire.
:
00:58:11,955 --> 00:58:16,265
Is burning bright and is beautiful.
:
00:58:16,275 --> 00:58:17,465
So keep shining sister.
:
00:58:18,715 --> 00:58:23,075
People who do have our inner flame
and who are passionate it's who we
:
00:58:23,075 --> 00:58:25,755
are and we're not going to dim it.
:
00:58:26,525 --> 00:58:27,495
For your comfort.
:
00:58:27,995 --> 00:58:28,085
I
:
00:58:28,155 --> 00:58:29,145
Blakely: haven't found that.
:
00:58:29,455 --> 00:58:34,155
That my efforts to dim it have made
my, or the people who I actually
:
00:58:34,155 --> 00:58:37,155
want to help, lives better.
:
00:58:37,785 --> 00:58:39,785
It makes the lives better of
people I don't really give a
:
00:58:39,785 --> 00:58:40,405
Casi: fuck about anyway.
:
00:58:40,445 --> 00:58:44,015
It's making them comfortable
while you suffer.
:
00:58:44,065 --> 00:58:44,475
Ben: Yep.
:
00:58:44,745 --> 00:58:47,525
Before we got here, that's exactly...
:
00:58:48,175 --> 00:58:49,835
What I was thinking about both of you.
:
00:58:51,495 --> 00:58:55,495
So I'm very happy that she said
that because I was like, I'm just
:
00:58:55,495 --> 00:58:57,205
waiting this whole time going.
:
00:58:57,265 --> 00:58:57,695
Yeah.
:
00:58:57,955 --> 00:58:58,845
Casi: I don't even know you that well.
:
00:58:58,845 --> 00:58:59,585
And I'm like, she's,
:
00:58:59,595 --> 00:59:00,315
Ben: she's my people.
:
00:59:00,325 --> 00:59:01,775
When will the vibe happen?
:
00:59:01,815 --> 00:59:03,315
Cause it's, it's happening.
:
00:59:06,010 --> 00:59:10,470
Well, thank you so much for
having us over, for having
:
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:11,540
this conversation with us.
:
00:59:11,550 --> 00:59:13,200
It's been so cool.
:
00:59:13,230 --> 00:59:13,540
Thank you.