In this grounded and challenging conversation, I’m joined by Dakota Meyer, U.S. Marine veteran and Medal of Honor recipient, to explore a simple but confronting truth: nobody is coming to save you.

Dakota explains why personal responsibility sits at the centre of a meaningful life, and how leadership, identity, and fulfilment are built through action rather than intention. We unpack his core principle – risk plus responsibility equals reward – and what it reveals about why so many people feel stuck, lost, or quietly dissatisfied despite doing “all the right things”.

This conversation moves through identity, mental health, resilience, and the role of community, while continually returning to one essential question: are you living in alignment with who you say you are? Dakota speaks candidly about truth, accountability, and the danger of outsourcing responsibility for your life – whether to institutions, labels, or other people.

At its heart, this episode is an invitation to look honestly in the mirror, examine the evidence of your actions, and decide what kind of person you are becoming.

In this episode, we discuss:

→ Why “nobody’s coming to save you” is not cynical, but empowering

→ Dakota’s equation for life: risk + responsibility = reward

→ How identity is shaped by behaviour, not labels or intentions

→ The difference between resilience and avoidance

→ Mental health, accountability, and telling the truth without cruelty

→ What it means to be a “peopleist” – valuing people over titles

→ Why real change always begins with internal decisions and action

Links mentioned in the episode:

Dakota Meyer on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dakotameyer0317/

Dakota’s Substack: https://dakotameyerthebluf.substack.com/

Hello, and welcome to the Lonely Chapter, a podcast for people who are doing okay on the surface, but quietly unsure how to live well.

If you're new here, please do follow or subscribe wherever you're listening.

It really helps the show reach more people who might need these conversations.

Today's episode is with Dakota Meyer, a U.S. marine veteran and Medal of Honor recipient who has also written, spoken, and led on what it means to live with responsibility.

In this conversation, we talk about why nobody's coming to save you, the equation he lives by, which is risk plus responsibility equals reward, and what real leadership looks like when you strip away titles, including his Mirror Check and the difference between leaders and managers.

This is a conversation about identity, responsibility, and what it takes to become the person you keep saying you want to be.

Let's get into the conversation.

Dakota, you've described yourself as a Marine, father, author, patriot, first responder, and above all, a peopleist.

What do you mean when you call yourself a peopleist?

Yeah, no, Sam, thank you so much for having me on.

It's truly an honor.

And, you know.

Yeah, I mean, all those titles are.

Are really what I think.

We all have a ton of titles, but those are by far the.

The priorities of what I set out to be.

And, you know, when it comes to peopleist, I think for me, it's.

It's just.

I don't know that, you know, I say that because it's like, you know, people.

So many people get wrapped up in all these other subtitles.

And for me, you know, I just care about people.

You know, everything I've ever done is truly just trying to be the best that I can for.

For people.

Right.

Unconditionally.

It doesn't matter if I agree with them or whether I think they deserve what.

What.

What they need or whatever else.

It just simply comes down to the fact that I care.

I love people, and, like, if I can help people, then.

Then I'm going to help people.

So, like, I. I call myself a peopleist.

Like, I am.

I am here for, like, people.

People first, people over, you know, people over everything else.

Right.

Like, you know, and so that's.

That's ultimately what.

Why I call myself a peopleist.

Yeah, I think it's a good title to have, and I think if everyone in the world was a peopleist and People first, it would be a much nicer place to be.

Yeah, you know, we get.

We get wrapped up too many times about, you know, about identifying with some party or some title or.

Or something else and.

And, like, look like your Priorities, like, you must be principally sound, but your principles can't be at the expense of people.

Like, so, like, they have to.

Like, you have to measure them.

Like, your principles cannot be at the expense of other people's.

At the expense of other people.

Right.

And that's what we have.

A lot of.

A lot of these parties have left the people, and people are having to conform to parties and not the parties conforming to people and the people's needs.

Obviously, a lot of people listening will probably know your story, know your background a bit.

But for anyone not listening, obviously you joined the marine Corps at 18.

What was happening in your life at that time to lead you into that choice?

Yeah, I mean, look, I. I grew up on a.

In a small town in Kentucky.

I grew up with my father on a farm, and, you know, I played sports.

I was your typical high school student in a small town, and I think we might have graduated with like, 150 total.

And so, you know, I just, you know, I was your typical high school student.

Right.

I didn't really care much about school.

School was boring to me.

I wanted to be outside working, you know, building, doing the shit that kids need to be doing.

Right?

And so.

So no wonder sitting behind a desk was boring for me.

And, you know, ultimately, one day I was walking through this classroom, and they're walking through this lunchroom, and there was a Marine recruiter back there.

And, you know, while I don't think that.

I don't think that we're always where we want to be, I do think 100% we're always where we're supposed to be, and it's on us to.

To pull that lesson away.

And, you know, for me, like, it just.

I never thought about going to the Marine Corps before that day, and, you know, it just kind of happened.

And I. I joined the Marine Corps.

Just in the right time, in the right place for that.

That moment in your life going past and seeing that the Marine there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, and that's like.

It's.

It's.

It's.

So, you know, I think that's like.

But I think that's all of life, right?

I think.

I think we're always where we're supp.

And it's on us to learn the lesson in order to.

How we can take that lesson in.

To learn to be able to go help the greater good.

It's a Latin phrase, amor fati.

Right?

Is love your fate.

So whatever your fate, whatever's happening in your life, whether it's good, whether it's bad.

Appreciate that there's no other option right now you are in it and you have to find the answers and the lessons out there.

You know, I was talking to somebody last night.

I think that's the ultimate place.

The pinnacle of how you know you're in touch with life is at the point that you can even appreciate and be thankful for the bad and the bad people that happen.

That's, that's like.

I think that's like the point that the goal of getting to everything, like, of what we all need to get to.

Absolutely.

And there'll obviously be times where in the moment it's horrible and everything that's happening, it's not nice.

But to be able to look back on stuff and reflect in that positive way and take the lessons away.

I think that's the thing, isn't it?

Finding how can we be better after that.

Yeah.

Because if you don't.

Right.

Like if you're only going to be.

I mean, think about this.

Like, how many people out there.

Happiness is a choice.

And how many people are out there waiting for, like, oh, I'm only going to be happy when everything's perfect and good?

Well, you're not going to be happy very often.

Yeah, you'd be waiting a very long time for everything to be right.

Your service culminated in the events at Ganjgol without reliving the play by play necessarily.

How has your relationship to that day changed as you've had more time to process it?

Yeah, you know, I think I'm thankful for that day in more ways than, than you could imagine.

You know, everything in my life, the knowledge that, that I've gained off of that day and the perspective I'm like, I'm so fortunate to have been able to, to be part of that day and had the opportunity, I literally got to see the very best of human being.

Like, everybody reads about bad times in books.

Like, you know, there's a difference between.

There's a.

There's a huge difference between education and knowledge.

Huge difference.

Education is something that you read in a book.

You know, it's something that you can you learn in a classroom, but it means you have no experience.

Knowledge is experience.

Knowledge is education through experience.

And so, you know, like, I mean, I mean, let me ask you this, and I argue with people about this all the time.

Would you want a doctor who knows literally got 4.0s, got the highest grades in school, but has never operated on anybody to operate on you first?

No, not at all.

No.

No, you wouldn't.

And how many times have you asked the best surgeon what his grades were or her grades were in school?

Never, Right?

So that's.

That's my easiest way to do it.

And so for me, like, you know, most people go through, and they, they, they, you know, first off, for themselves, they.

Especially as a man, you know, we're put on earth to protect and provide.

I think men are living with this identity crisis because they've never been tested, right?

They've never had to be in a fight.

They've never been punched in the mouth.

They've never had their true grit tested.

And so because of that, they.

They have this lost identity because they.

They don't know, could they protect somebody, could they perform their duties?

And I think it's.

It's.

It's a hard piece for a lot of men out there, you know, But.

But for me, man, I. I got to do all of that at 21 years old.

I got to, like, stand in a terrible situation.

I got to watch the very best of human beings.

I got to watch the potential of what people like.

I got to watch the potential of how powerful the believing is.

Like, I got to watch the power of.

Of what evil can do.

I got.

I mean, you know, all this.

I got to see all of this over six hours of.

I got to see the.

The threshold of suffering of what happens when people don't do anything.

I got to see.

I mean, I got to literally watch at the most extreme levels, all of it play out in six hours.

And now it took me a long time to process.

Took me a long time to process it and get through it, right?

I mean, it was like eating through a fire hose.

And then.

And then how do you apply it, right?

Because you come back and society tells you that the best you'll ever be is a victim of your own service.

And.

And you fall into that a little bit, which I did.

And then, you know, you're asking a bunch of people who have no clue what it's like to see that or live that life to help you, and they don't know how.

They're just going to tell you what the book tells them.

And then the book's been weaponized to put you on.

I mean, it's all these things.

So for me, like, it took me a long time.

And what I had to first off come to realize is that nobody's coming to save you.

People might help you, but nobody's going to do it for you, and nobody's going to be able to do it for you.

And so I think that once you realize that and you're tired of not becoming who you want to be, you start figuring it out.

And when you.

When you realize that the world's not going to get to changing for you, you better get to changing for the world.

It gives you a place to start.

And I think the most.

I think.

I think really the most.

The most powerful.

I don't know, I don't want to call it, doctor, but the most powerful diagnostic tool that you can have is a mirror.

We know ourselves better than anyone.

And I think a lot of the time people look externally for answers.

And exactly what you say there about people often sit and wait for someone to come and help them when.

Whilst having help and support is fantastic.

Ultimately those final steps, those steps to improvement and moving beyond something, it's got to be internal.

It does.

We've got to stop outsourcing our responsibilities.

Right?

Because look, the equation to life is this.

And I don't care how you spin this, I don't care how you do this, but this is the equation to life.

It is risk plus responsibility equals reward.

Like, the more risk you take, the more responsibility you assume, the higher the reward that you can potentially get.

But everybody wants the reward without the other two.

Yeah.

Well, it's so easy as well now to compare yourself to other people, isn't it, with.

Well, it's easy to lie to yourself.

Like, you can find things to support everything.

Like, if I wanted to go out right now and pretend that I was a cat, I could find people and I could find places that would support whatever idea I could come up with.

And it's crazy.

It's crazy that there's no truth, there's no reality.

Like, you've got, like, we've got to get people back to that because it's at the expense of people and their mental health.

You were saying about sort of when you came back, you sort of fell into that trap of sort of not knowing or not getting the help maybe that you needed at that time.

But what was it?

Looking back on it now and the reflections that you've done, what do you think the younger version of you needed most after that?

Truth.

Truth.

Like truth.

Right.

Like, you know, this, this narrative was sold that, you know, I mean, look at what veterans look like.

Like, look, look at what veterans look like when they came back from Vietnam.

Look at what all the movies look like.

They're just broken, you know.

And so I think that, like, I needed truth.

I needed reality of like, hey, like, just because you went like, first off, you haven't seen anything that other.

Like you're, you're.

What you've gone through is not unique to you.

People have gone through it for years.

And honestly, what we went through in Iraq and Afghanistan wasn't near as bad as Vietnam.

And what Vietnam went through wasn't near as bad as World War II.

Right.

I mean, could you imagine what, what Vikings went through?

I mean, you know what I mean?

Like, all of it is like, it's all.

There's been worse for somebody else and somebody else has gotten it and been fine.

So you got to find a way.

And so I think like, I bought into this narrative being broken and you know, I was justifying everything.

Like, if I was an.

To you, I'd be like, well, you don't know what it's like to watch your, your, your team die or to be in a gunfight.

And it's like, no, but I also don't know what it's like to lose a kid.

I also don't know, you know, I mean, like, like we're trying to out trauma each other and it's like your trauma is not unique to you.

Other people have had it worse, you know, and so I think that I bought into this and I, you know, justified.

I was the victim and then I justified it through my actions.

And you know, really where it got me was to becoming.

Eventually I looked in the mirror and didn't even recognize who I was.

Yeah, there's definitely, I think that the key word is action, isn't it?

Because you've, there's importance in noticing that what traumatizes one person might not be exactly the same as another person and that we all have unique life experiences, but ultimately you have to take action at some point.

And it's that stage when people go beyond that and they just don't take action and they just become comfortable in this new way of life.

But, but, but do they become comfortable or like, you know what I mean?

Like, because here's the thing, right?

Like, I mean, and, and that is one of the craziest things about, about human beings is, is like you can take somebody who was a millionaire and you can put them in prison and they're eventually going to adapt, right?

Like, like people can adapt to any environment.

I mean, people go from living in a rich neighborhood to being homeless and they find a way to adapt and that becomes their norm, right?

And so I just think that like people, I don't think they ever become comfortable.

I just think that they just give up.

They Lose hope.

And I think once you kill hope, it's just people are just waiting to die.

And I think, you know, like, I think, I don't, I don't think there was ever a time, but I didn't have reality.

Like I was justifying, I was factually blending that.

Like, oh well, I drink every day.

Like, no, no.

Like just because I went through something hard doesn't give me.

Like I was justifying all these things that were amplifying and keeping me from becoming who I needed to become or getting better or getting past this for the same thing.

Like it's crazy.

Like I was justifying it with the same thing.

Like I was using what, what I thought was causing it as an excuse that was also keeping it to hap.

Like it becomes a self licking ice cream cone.

And then you get around people who are doing the same thing so you can justify your actions and like, you just go around and like, we, we, we, we, we look at support the wrong way.

Like we're like, oh well, these people need to support us.

Well, that support is not necessarily like doing the same thing and supporting what we want to do.

So true support is truth and accountability.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I think a lot of people get told what they want to hear as opposed to what they need to hear.

Yeah.

Because we've wrapped love up into being an emotion, not an action.

Talking of hope, that just was making me think of Victor Frankl's.

He tells a story about.

He was a.

He was in the concentration camps in Auschwitz during the World War II.

And I think he was there for about three years or between different camps.

And the Christmas before the Allies arrived, he noticed that there was these people that had got a little word that the allies were getting closer and they were going to be freed by the new year.

And as time went by and as that time got closer and closer, they were really excited.

And then the time passed and they still weren't there.

And he noticed that the loss of hope actually resulted in people dying because exactly what you were saying before is they lose that hope and they are just waiting to die in that moment.

Yeah.

And, and I know this is going to sound crazy, but like I've, I don't think I've ever shared this on a podcast, but like, I don't.

Look, I've never walked into a situation thinking that I could die.

Like, I've thought that I was going to, but I've never walked into a situation.

Like I, I just don't believe it.

Right.

Like I Believe I'll die when I decide to die.

And I, I, I know that sounds crazy, but, like, if you don't believe that, then what are you doing?

Like, what are you doing?

Right?

Like, you've got to get to that point to where.

Cause you will never believe more.

Like, you'll never achieve more than you believe.

Yeah.

If you believe things are good, they're good.

If you believe things are bad, they're bad.

Like, whatever you believe.

If you, like, like me, like, all the way down to running.

I hate running.

I'll tell you that up front.

I hate running.

You know why I run?

Because I hate it.

But you know what I do?

Like, as soon as, like, my brain starts to, starts to say, oh, that hurts, or that sucks, or this feels bad or all these things, you know what I do?

Immediately, I smile.

I smile not because I'm happy, but because I tricked my brain into thinking that I am.

And then I just start combating those thoughts with, yeah, what an opportunity this is to suffer.

What an opportunity.

Like, I'm getting better.

Like, ooh.

Like, at least I know where this weakness is at, right?

I combat those ideas.

Like, I, like, I am constantly fighting those ideas in my head and tricking my brain to understanding.

Like, if you don't do that, if you don't do that, life's gonna be tough for you.

Yeah, it's.

The story we tell ourselves is way more powerful than what's actually happening.

You can shape any reality into whatever you want in your mind.

That's how powerful the mind is.

It's very powerful.

Just going back to your time and following your arrival back home, you obviously, you were awarded the Medal of Honor.

And the call that you received to tell you about that was you're working on a construction site, right?

And you had this call from President Obama.

Just tell me what it was like to receive that call in that moment.

And, and so, yeah, I mean, I, we had, like, a conflict on the call because I was working and I didn't, I couldn't get to a landline, but they arranged it to where he could call me on my cell phone.

And so I went to this gas station, sat there.

He was a little bit late, so I almost missed his call.

But, yeah, no, he called and it was just such.

It was so amazing.

Like, I pick up the phone, I was like, hello?

And he's like, Dakota Meyer.

I said, yeah.

He goes, this is Barack Obama.

And I was like, hey, what's going on?

You know, and, you know, what a nice guy.

I mean, you know, President Obama was.

Every time I'd been around him, was a.

Was a nice guy.

Like, he was.

He was one of us.

And, you know, you know, I don't have to get in the political side of it, right.

But, like, as far as a human being, as far as a man, like, was.

Was a nice guy.

And.

Yeah, I mean, it was just.

It was awesome.

He said, I'll see you in a couple months.

Look forward to seeing you.

And, you know, we had a beer in the.

In the Rose Garden the night before I got the medal.

We sit out there, and we had The White House actually brewed their beer at the time called the White House Honey Owl.

And so we sat in the Rose Garden, we had a beer, we talked about, you know, just life, really.

Like, we didn't.

Wasn't.

You know, everybody's like, oh, what'd y' all talk about?

I mean, it was just like two guys sitting there talking.

We weren't really.

I don't know, we weren't really getting into deep conversations about really anything, you know, and.

And what a.

What an.

You know, what an awesome opportunity.

Quite a surreal moment.

I bet, that.

Having a beer.

Yeah.

And it's like that looking behind the veil and realizing that it's just a human being.

Yeah.

You know, that's the.

That's the thing, right?

Like, we pound these people and we.

We expect perfection.

Like, you know, I think the number one thing that's killing us in the world is hypocrisy.

You know, we're holding people to standards that we don't even hold ourselves to.

You know, we've got people criticizing the people in the arena, like.

Like leaders in Congress, when.

When most people can't even lead their own lives.

They can't even manage their own households.

But they're talking shit about people who are, you know, holding these huge positions.

And.

And so it's just.

I don't know.

Like, I think, like, we need to.

We all need to, like, settle down a little bit and remember that.

That we're.

We're all humans.

Like, they're just people like us.

Yeah.

Just be a bit more.

Well, be peopleist.

Yeah.

We've spoken a bit about the mental health side of things, and you've been very open in speaking about the extent of your mental health struggles in the past when you mention about men as well, in particular, and the sort of identity stuff going on around that as well.

What do you think men in particular get wrong about the need to be strong?

Yeah, I think first off, what's happened is, and I think there's been this decline of masculinity, right?

And so which is caused, like, look, there's nothing more dangerous on the planet than a weak man.

So because, because here's the reality, right?

Like a man, you are naturally stronger.

Like you were giving, like you're naturally going to be bigger and stronger than the other sex of human being, right?

Which is a female.

So with that, you know, with strength, which is a lot of its natural strength that's given you, there's a responsibility for you to be able to harness, use that strength and to be able to use it for good, right.

You better be intentional with it, right?

And so I think, I think first off, I, I, I do believe that every problem on the face of the planet is because of weak men, right?

So I, I think, I do think it started, I have this conclusion that I, it's my own opinion that I draw it back to when, when the, the phrase started that good guys finish last.

I think that was the first campaign, one of the first many campaigns that kind of started on this decline of weak men, right?

Because if you notice after that started, I'm not saying it's because of that, but I'm saying that's the point.

I can remember, right?

And so that I've looked back that then divorces started rising and then the standards, societal standards for men is low.

You know, when you look at everything like if society and government is going to set the standards for men, it's very low.

Like think about it in the father role.

And this is where it started, right?

So divorces started happening then.

Men were only with their children every other weekend and paying money.

So like they're.

The priority of them was the financial aspect of providing.

And it wasn't about providing leadership and guidance and time with their children and responsibility.

It was the women are going to take the kids majority of the time.

Men are going to have them six days, four, four days a month.

And then they're just going to pay financially for the rest of the time, right?

So then you, now you have a generation of men who were primarily raised by women.

So you wonder why men are so emotional now you wonder why men are so like.

And it, look, if I looked at you and said, hey, I'm going to teach my daughters how to be women, you'd think I'm nuts, right?

Their mom Plays a critical role with my daughters of teaching.

I. I don't know how to teach them how to be a woman.

I've never been one, right?

And so I can teach them how to be a good person.

So you go down this whole thing.

And so where I think this identity crisis comes in for men is then you have men like Harvey Weinstein.

You have these pieces of shit, men who are now in the media representing men.

And their role models aren't that good, right?

And so we've got to get back to principles and men principally set men.

And now you have it so much that men.

I'm wearing the shirt right now.

I work with XXXY Athletics with Jense who.

I mean, I want you to think about this.

Like, how many women have you seen go to men's sports and take men's titles?

None.

How many times have you walked into a bathroom and seen a woman in the bathroom or locker room, in a men's locker room?

None.

Yeah, so guess what?

You've got men now going so weak.

Men now dangerous.

Men not able to compete with real men.

So now they say they're women and they're preying on the most valuable thing that we have.

It's insane.

And if we don't stop this.

So where do I think that.

How do we fix this?

Well, we got to go back to responsibility, accountability, and like the, the silent majority of, of good men have got to go out and start calling out what's wrong.

They've got to start standing for what's right.

They've got to stop outsourcing their responsibilities of leading the next generation.

And so, like, that's what it's got to come down to, right?

But.

But this idea of there's nothing that makes me sicker than when I hear a man say, well, I'm not gonna do this because I. I'm not appreciated.

Well, you weren't put on earth to be appreciated.

You were put on earth to do a job.

Like, that's why men are like, that's why men don't carry babies, right?

Like, this is like, there's a nature piece of this that, you know, and we've got all these, like, phrases that are very important mixed up, right?

Like, behind every great man is a even better woman.

And so, like, the way I look at life is, this is.

Men are like the body armor of like, like, like, you know, body armor protects what's vital and what's important.

Not because it's weak, but it's there to protect what's important, right?

And that's what men are to society.

And women are the important piece.

And we've got to get back to that.

Yeah, I think people mix it up and they speak about it in very one or the other terms.

It's never about men and women are made to be teams.

It's a team effort.

Ultimately, like you say, there's various roles and we often break it down and that what you just said there, behind every strong man is a stronger woman or something.

Why can't it be both?

It's, I think, the conversation they talk about.

There's a lot of toxic masculinity this term, and it's very generalized words that damage people and damage the perception of good men.

And like, you say, there's bad men, there's bad women, but we can't brush everyone with the same, or we can't tarnish everyone with the same brush.

Sorry.

And every.

Every woman that's bad has been let down by a man.

Like, there's no bad woman out there that's.

That's not been let down by a man, whether it's her father.

Like, at some point in the realm, you won't find a bad woman that wasn't let down by a bad man.

That's interesting, the bit you said about.

About men having been brought up by women.

So this is something that I read in Dr. Robert Glover's book, no More Mr. Nice Guy.

And he was speaking about this and I. I had a conversation with someone recently and I was telling him about this and how because of the narrative and maybe the divorce rates rising, there's been an increase in men that have been brought up by women and more importantly, taught how to be men by women.

Because I said to him this and he said, well, I've been brought up by my mum and I feel fine.

And he's a great example of a man.

I said, that's absolutely fine.

But I said the difference is being taught how to be a man by a woman.

And like you said, if you tried to teach your daughters how to be women, doesn't work because you don't have that experience yourself.

Well, and understand this, understand this.

Like, there's.

There are factors to this, right?

Like, like me, like, I entered.

Like, my daughters hang around Tulsi Gabbard, my daughters.

Like, I bring them intentionally around strong women, right?

So I don't know that necessarily.

Like, but there has to be some type of role in that gender or sex.

Like, because if not, they're going to.

They're going like to miss out and the other thing I would say is, is, I would argue with him is I do agree that, that, that a woman can teach a man how to be a good person, principally all that.

But what I will tell you is, and I don't believe is that, that and I do believe in society today it is easier to be a man than it's ever been.

Let's talk about that.

Right?

But what I don't believe is, is that, you know, like it's, it is like it would be absolutely impossible for me to raise my daughters to be women, to teach them everything about being a woman.

Like, period.

And it's the same thing in reverse for men.

Just touching back on the mental health aspect of it, where we entered this sort of tangent, I suppose when you think back to the times when you were at your lowest, what were the things that helped you the most and maybe what were the things that were recommended the most often but didn't actually help?

Yeah, I mean first off, like, I do think, you know, medication gets a bad rap.

I think medication is, is.

I, I think all these pharmaceutical solutions are, they might be solutions temporarily, but they're not, they're not long term solutions, right?

What I think that helped me the most in all of it, look there, there's multiple pieces to this.

Like none of it, first off, none of it happens overnight, right?

None of it happens overnight.

And it is a constant battle.

But, but it's like, it's like anything else.

The more reps you get at it, the better you become, right?

Like, and it, and it's, look, I mean every day I wake up and I never know what I'm going to have to combat, right?

Like, like the mind is a tricky, tricky thing.

And so, but the more you do it, the better you get at it, period.

Right?

And so it's like driving, right?

Like, I mean, can you ever just get in your car and not pay attention and not like have a destination and expect to get there?

No.

Well, it's the same thing in life.

It's the same thing with your mind, right?

Like you, you, you, you.

If you get in your car and you just start driving and you close your eyes, you're going to wreck or at least end up where you don't.

You didn't intend to be.

And you're.

No, really, you just created more problems than what just staying where you were at would be, right?

It's the same thing with your mind.

Like if you get up every day and you don't have a destination that you're Wanting to go or anything that you're wanting to achieve.

And then you get to the end of the day and you wonder why you don't feel fulfilled or why you don't feel like you accomplished anything.

Well, what did you set out to accomplish?

Right?

And so you know, for me, like, it was more about like there were like I did ibogaine, right?

So I went down to Mexico, I did psychedelics, that which was absolutely the most life changing, single handedly thing of my life that gave me my life back.

But it's still, it's no good without if you go back to the same shit that got you to where you're at, right?

So it really comes down to decisions and actions.

How do you go about finding a destination for your day when you're in that, in that moment?

Well, I mean, you know, this is one piece that men and people in general have outsourced is, I mean, think about this.

Like how many times have you heard people say, you know, you don't, you don't, like, like how many times do you ever, in relationships where it's like, well, this person just doesn't make me happy?

Well, your happiness is not my responsibility, it's your own.

But most people don't even like they can tell you what doesn't make them happy, but turn around and ask them the question and say, well then what does make you happy?

They can't tell you.

So you know what, what you have to get the destination of, like what fulfills you, you have to figure that out.

That is something that you as a human being will have to figure out.

And if your happiness relies on people, places or things and not just yourself created by yourself and your own decisions and actions, you're, you're screwed.

You're screwed because if the only time you're happy is when you're on the beach, well, you're screwed if the only time you're happy is when you're at home.

You're screwed if the only time you're happy is when somebody's treating you good or giving you attention.

You're, you know what I mean?

Like, you are on the road to emotional bankruptcy.

And so like you've got to figure out how.

You've got to look in the mirror and, and be able to love yourself.

And this is something that I've ran into with a lot of people and I realize this and I find it and I listen to it and I believe it is the saddest part to all this, Sam, is people cannot receive love more than What?

They love themselves.

So if they don't love themselves you're never going to be able to out love them.

And so you're always going to be in this constant battle of trying to get like that's.

Do you talk about the most soul sucking piece.

Have you ever wanted something for somebody so bad and would have been willing to do whatever it took to help them get to where they want to be and it's not.

You get nothing from it but just watching them win.

Right.

Yeah.

But you can't get them there or help them get there because they don't even believe they can do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I totally agree.

I think so many times you.

Anyone who's had someone close to them who's been struggling will have seen it where you can only take them so far and you can keep trying and trying and trying.

And it's exactly what we said at the start.

Ultimately it has to come from your own actions internally.

Those last steps especially.

Yeah.

They have to.

That's the hardest part.

That's the hardest part with people is like.

But I'll tell you, like it's an.

It's an endless pit for you.

You will, you will bankrupt yourself by trying to emotionally by trying to get like until they're ready to do it.

Like.

So I always.

I have this rule for myself that I will meet them and their efforts exactly to where they're at but I will not do it one inch or one second more of what they're going to do.

Yeah.

I think it's a good rule to have because protects you.

And I've been there before where been trying to really help someone and wasting all this emotion.

Not wasting, but spending a lot of energy on this person.

Ultimately they're not taking that next step.

And it's like you have to let go at one point and say until you're ready.

I can't do anything more.

Yeah.

Because I can't come and hold your hand through day to day life.

Yeah.

And it's a really difficult thing to do especially for people who you love.

But it's.

Yeah, it's a good rule.

I like it when you look at your self now and you look at your day to day.

What.

What tools do you have for the maintenance of your own men's health nowadays?

Look, I get up every day with a plan.

Right.

I have a blueprint print to life of what I want to be like.

I know exactly what I want to be, where I want to go, what I want to become.

I've got, you know, I think the thing that, like, a lot of people have got to realize is, is there is no finish line in this thing of life.

You know, it's not, it's not a.

It's not a who gets like it.

It's finish lines are nothing more than milestones.

They're nothing more than chapters.

And, and you're reading a book that you don't know where it goes, where it ends, or how long it's going to go.

And so like, but, but like, you know, you can stop reading at, at chapter four and you might just not know the rest of the story.

But like, you know, there's.

There's always more to the story.

There's always more to your story, right?

And so to your book.

And, and like, you know, for me, I just get up every day with a plan.

I, I truly, like, live the best day of my life every day.

Like, I, I, like my life is so good.

But, but again, like, I, I'm very hard on people, right?

Like, I hold everybody to the standards I hold myself to.

Once you show me who you are, like, I believe you.

And then I, you know, I seen this.

I actually just put this out on my Instagram this morning about.

This guy talked about how you're the own seat, you're the own.

You're your own CEO to your life.

So higher and fire as appropriate and also place people in the positions that they belong.

Yeah, I like that.

It's.

Yeah, it's interesting to think about and I just wanted to touch back on.

You were talking about sort of the.

The plan for the day and before sort of finding what makes you happy.

And I think it's really important.

You have to try stuff.

A lot of people sit and they.

What makes me happy?

I don't know.

Okay, well, I'm gonna have to try stuff to find out.

I'm gonna have to try and work out what it is by trial and error.

I think a lot of people sit still and again, it's that inaction where they don't end up finding what makes them happy.

What are their true values.

Well, I think what we've gotten wrong is, is that happiness, like, that people think happiness is a feeling or an emotion.

It's not.

It's a choice.

Yeah.

Like, you choose what makes you happy.

You choose to be happy in that moment.

You choose to be thankful.

Like, that is a mindset like, like, like working out.

Like, we all have the same, like, getting up early.

Like, none of us.

Nobody rolls out of bed in the morning and just has his superpower.

Like, yeah, this feels great.

Like, I want to get out of this comfortable bed and go start the day.

No, no, that's not that.

None of us are that way.

The difference is, is we know how good we feel at the end when we do do that.

It's like working out.

Like, how often before you go work out, do you want to go work out?

No, nobody wants to go to the gym.

But how many times have you ever done a workout and after the workout regretted doing it?

Never.

Yeah, that's the.

So it's like, can you sacrifice now for the fulfillment of happiness later?

Right.

Like, people are.

They.

They've gotten this.

This aspect of, well, happiness.

And like, love is a.

Is an emotion and it's not.

It's a choice love.

Majority of the times love especially is hard.

It is nasty.

It is like love, but it is the contin.

Continuous decision to choose to do unconditionally what's right and choose something that you want through the hard times.

Yeah, that's what these things are.

But I think we've got them wrapped up into.

And we're selling this idea, but it's.

It's being done because it's commercialized.

Like we've commercialized love and happiness.

Yeah, yeah, massively.

I just want to talk about your time.

Obviously, up until quite recently, you were working as a firefighter.

Yeah.

What was it that drew you to that service in particular, and what differences did you notice between the fire service and the military?

Yeah, I mean, look, I. I had the opportunity to be a firefighter here in Texas and multiple stations, still part time with.

With.

I don't get to do it as much, but with an organization out here.

And yeah, I mean, I just, like, again, I'm a peopleist.

Like, if.

If I can help them, I. I will help them.

And you know, I. I've always just felt this desire to serve other people and you know, I. I feel like I was put on this earth to.

To be there for people in moments that nobody else wants to be there for.

Right.

And so, yeah, I mean, being a firefighter was.

I mean, it was awesome.

And.

And it.

And it's.

Look, it's the same thing as being a Marine, right?

I mean, it's just.

You just got a different area of operation and, you know, you.

Different deployment and a different task and a different, you know, but.

But it all comes down to the same principles and concepts of.

You know, our first responders are just people.

They're peopleist.

They are the ultimate peopleist of the of, of the communities.

Yeah, yeah.

You definitely see the best of people in that, in these roles with both of those things.

So working in the military and in the fire service, teamwork is a massive thing.

It's so important to ensure that operations go well.

In your opinion, what does a good team look like?

Yeah, you know, a good team is.

A group of people that have the same common goal of what they're trying to accomplish.

Right.

It doesn't mean that we all have to be the same.

And a bad team would be if you had, I mean, imagine like, imagine if you took the Patriots and you had, you know, everybody on the field was a Tom Brady.

They would never work.

You know, you need to have a bunch of different types of people and it takes that and it takes them coming together and being united and together through a commonality of what they're trying to achieve.

That's what the most high performing teams come down to.

Right.

And the better those teams get is the more that they suffer together in order to put that craft together.

And I suppose branching off of teamwork is leadership.

And I've seen you write about management versus leadership and maybe where the crossovers are, maybe where the differences are.

How do you differentiate between those two things?

Yeah, look, I, you know, leaders versus managers, you know, in every organization that you're part of, that's why there's titles and there's structure and there's all these things.

You know, there, there's managers live and they, they run off of the organizational tools that were given to them, whether it's their positions, like they didn't create anything.

Nobody follows them because of who they are.

They're just using the tools the organization gave them.

Right.

That like, so I always like make it this very simple is, is.

It's, it's the reason that you get people to do both, that both are trying to get people to accomplish or perform a task.

But it's like the reason that people perform that task is what differentiates between if you're a leader or you're a manager.

If people are doing it because they fear the repercussions of if they don't do it, then you're a manager.

If they're doing it because they believe in the overall arching mission of the organization and they're doing it because you asked them, because they want to fulfill this for you, then that's, that is leadership.

So, so I'm thinking about it on our like fire station level.

So you've obviously got people on station and then people at headquarters who run the entire brigade as those people get promoted.

So say there's, say they're a leader on station and people are following them because they inspire them.

They want to be, they want to do the best they can for them as they go up and maybe leave the station level and become in a position where maybe people don't know them as much and they're.

What I'm asking, I suppose is do people stop becoming a leader and then become a manager in your opinion, when they get to that point?

I mean, if they choose to.

Right?

If they sell out.

Right.

And I also think that the loyalty, the loyalty aspect is, is what all this is anchored into too, right?

I mean, you know, we, we all know who's just trying to get promoted versus who's there because they give a shit about you, right?

Like, we all know that we, we, we can sense that.

Like that you're not tricking us, right?

You know the guys on your crew that are there just for the paycheck.

Yeah, right, we all know that, right.

And so, and they're in every organization.

But no, I think it ultimately comes down to the loyalty piece.

Like where are they loyal to and every organ to make you decide.

You can't be a fence sitter, right?

Like, and so you, the ones who are loyal to the people that they are in charge and, and put in, they are responsible for are the ones that are leaders.

The ones who are loyal to the organization at the expense of the people that they're in, in the position to protect and responsible for those people are managers and pieces of shit.

Yeah, I like, I like the definition.

What does good leadership look like to you then?

And how can we, is it something that you're born with?

Can you nurture it and can you grow at being a leader?

No, I don't think it's a nature thing.

I think it's a nurture thing.

And so I think that like, you know, but, but the realistic piece of it is, is you can't lead anybody else until you lead yourself, right?

Because if you're telling people to do things that you don't do yourself, then you're a hypocrite.

And so.

Which is very dangerous, right?

And it's a, it's a short lived piece.

And, and so what I would say is, is first off, like, you know, I always call it, call it the mirror check, you know, look in the mirror and you know everything about yourself that you don't want other people to know and ask yourself, would you follow you?

And if you Wouldn't you got to start there because nobody else is going to follow you if you wouldn't follow yourself.

Right.

And so then the next piece of it is, is look like being elite leadership is a contact sport.

It's not like there's no book that's gonna like tell you exactly how to do it.

There's no format, there's no one size or a mold that fits all.

Like it is a contact sport that is ever changing and it takes somebody who is willing to assume risk and responsibility in order to get a reward for the team.

Right.

And so, you know, this is what leaders are.

But leaders can be at any low level.

Right.

They can come out at any moment.

Right.

Everybody is ultimately a leader.

Yeah.

You know, and so, you know, ultimately usually the leaders who are in the leadership positions are the ones who are just responsible.

You know, you're responsible for.

You're the insurance policy for the greater of the good.

Right?

You are.

That is your job.

Your job is to protect and be responsible for the people who are having to execute.

Looking again, sort of the last, within the last year you've re enlisted into the Marine reserves.

Why was now the right time to go back?

You know, for me, ultimately, I, I felt like a hypocrite by telling, telling these, these people, the people were asking me, is it still worth serving?

I'm like, absolutely, absolutely.

But I wasn't serving.

And so I believe the only thing that we as human beings owe the world is to be who we say we are.

And so I wasn't being who I was saying I was, and I still believed in it.

And so I, you know, reenlisted.

And then, you know, the other piece of it was is I, I just, you know, talking about service and telling other people what service is, especially my daughters, it's not enough.

It's not enough being thankful for people that serve.

It's not enough go do something like, like don't just talk about it, don't just believe it.

Like take action on it.

And so, you know, I wanted my daughters to like grow up knowing that, that, you know, that service does matter and that there's sacrifice with it and that it's worth doing and it's not worth just talking about.

It all comes down to that word again, action, doesn't it?

Action.

In terms of like, how it's been for you re entering that world at this stage of your life, how has it been?

How have you changed as a man and as a leader since last time?

Yeah, I mean, my, my perspective has Completely changed.

Right?

Like, I mean, your views and your visions and your, like, it's, it's, it's, it's.

It's unique because you gotta think I got out 15 years ago.

No, I got.

Yeah, I got out 15 years ago the same rank I'm back in as now.

Huge difference.

Huge difference.

And so, you know, it gives me perspective, right?

And so I try to use that.

I'm, you know, I, I, I try to use that, and I try to use that dynamic to lead and guide and to mentor and to, you know, I try to be the guy that shaped me into who I became.

Yeah.

Who was that for you?

I mean, I had a bunch of guys.

Like, I was so fortunate.

I grew up around, like, the Sergeant Rooneys and the Tambourinos and the Skintas and, like, I mean, just these legends.

I mean, legends of guys.

Like, I was by far the weakest one of, of anybody in my circle.

That, that made me who I am.

When you speak about your story and the things you've learned from it and how you've changed as a person, what is it that you hope people get out of hearing it.

That it's worth it?

I think the biggest question in people's mind every day that crosses, is this worth it?

And it is.

It's all worth it.

Yeah.

Dakota.

The way I like to finish my episodes is I ask my guests to leave a question for the listener.

So I enjoy listening to podcasts and going away and having conversations with people about what I've listened to.

So if you could leave the listener now with a question to go and take to a family member, a friend, or even a stranger, what question would that be?

Yeah, I think.

I don't know.

I mean, like, I would give them two.

Right.

Number one is, is.

Is who are you?

And are you who you say you are?

You know, I, I had a guy ask me one time.

He talked about this, and it was really interesting.

And he used, like, being a Marine as a, like, you know, as a.

As a simple piece of it.

But he goes, if you were on jury right now, on trial, if you were on trial right now and you were accused of being a Marine, would there be enough evidence to prosecute you?

So whatever title you carry, like, if it's firefighter, if it's father, husband, whatever those titles are, if you were on trial right now and you're accused of being that, would there be enough evidence to prosecute you?

It's a great way to look at it.

It's a really nice bit of mental gymnastics.

Something for people to think about.

Dakota, thank you so much for coming on.

I've really appreciated your time today and hopefully the listeners have taken as much away as I have.

If people want to keep up to date with what you're doing online, find you.

Where can they do that?

Yeah, so I'm obviously on Instagram.

I do.

It's called the Bluff, so you can go check it out.

It's where I put like all my thoughts, my long form, everything we've talked about on there at some point.

Yeah, that's.

That's kind of it.

Awesome.

Yeah.

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