In this week's episode, GreenBook's host, Lenny Murphy, is joined by Noel Lamb, former Head of Research Operations at Robinhood to explore the Wild, Wild West of ResearchOps,  including the democratization of research, its strategic function, how to get organizational buy-in, the future of ResearchOps, and more...

Links From The Show:

• GreenBook --> https://greenbook.captivate.fm/podcast
• Lenny Murphy --> https://greenbook.captivate.fm/lenny

Many thanks to our guest, Noel. Thanks also to Emily Fullmer, for producing and editing this episode.

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Hello everybody It's Lenny Murphy here of Hello everybody it's

Lenny Murphy here with the GreenBook podcast Welcome glad that you're here

Glad that I'm here and particularly glad that our guest is here So Today

we are chatting with Noel Lamb.

Noel is a former head of research operations at Robinhood.

Noel.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Glad to be here.

Glad to have you.

Now Noel, your focus and experience is on research operations.

Why don't you define research operations for our audience?

Sure thing.

Yeah.

So research ops in my experience is a function that really

operationalizes activities of research.

So it might exist as a defined team, or you might even find it in.

Groups of smaller researchers, who are doing ops related activities

as part of their research process.

But however it manifests research ops is there to help teams streamline

processes and provide infrastructure and program support so that research

teams can complete their initiatives.

I'll also add here too, that it's not just about delivering

solutions or programs or products.

Or infrastructure.

I think research operations can really help to shape the culture

of a research team so that it's a productive, but also fulfilling

place for people to do research.

Okay.

And when we're talking about this, we're thinking primarily

around the client side, right?

There's a more operationally focused kind of voice of the customer internal order

takers, internal research organizations.

And then there's more of the consultative components, et cetera, et cetera.

And thinking about.

The optimal model where research operations fits within

a client side organization.

Yeah.

So I've worked in teams where ops existed in the research.

In a research and design ops org, and even most recently in a product strategy, or

that was really decoupled from research.

And I think there are pros and cons to each scenario that are

so specific to each organization.

And I could probably spend all day talking about it, but I won't.

But I think to answer your question specifically, like when research

ops is closely tied to research and.

They are wherever they exist in the organization.

They're seen as a partner to research and they are part of research from

an organizational perspective.

I think that's where you start to see the most success because research

ops, while they are a bit distinct from research, those groups still

need to align to the research.

And the best way that I've found for that to happen is to

be really close to research.

So whether that means reporting up into the same organizational

structure or head of research, or even just adjacent, as long as that

partnership and that alignment is there.

That's where you really start to see positive impact and great value of recent.

Okay.

So it seems like over the last few years, we've seen a trend

of democratization of research.

more decentralization of the research function.

Where marketing has has a research capability the brand and product

guys to have our own research capability, the, obviously the CX

folks have their own research papers.

When we think about this idea of research ops as a centralized asset

or resource across them how does that work effectively when there's something

that looks a whole lot more like fragmentation occurring across what we

would always consider to be research functions within many brand organization.

I think this is a really interesting question.

And one that is, I think it's becoming more common for research leaders wherever

they sit in the organization, because it's a really difficult thing to navigate.

There are parts of research that research ops supports and if they're decentralized,

then everybody's doing things differently.

They're not in accordance, some teams maybe doing things that

are not in accordance with like privacy and data governance laws.

And I think there's risk if you don't have a centralized place.

And maybe that is your research ops team where procedures and policies

and best practices are generated and shared for me, it's a risk game and

that's a question for leadership.

How much risk are they?

Are they willing to accept in the organization?

We've heard recently in the news there's been some congressional

hearings with Facebook.

And I don't know all the inner workings.

I've never worked at that company.

And I think it's so full of people with good intentions.

But unfortunately this is a scenario like how risky it can be for a company

if you don't have the right levers and pulleys and procedures in place.

And I think the power of a research operations team can be

to help tie that thread, between all those fragmented group,

So that's interesting.

I would say that traditionally the market research industry is or

even market research is a function started as a as a liability shield.

It was to decrease risk inherently.

And I would say that is still, maybe not talked about as often,

but it is still one of the cool.

Drivers of performing research is to decrease risk.

So in this in this scenario where.

Yeah.

You've given a lot of cool tools to a lot of people who may not.

It's like putting a gun in hand with child.

They may not know that you're kind of dangerous being able

to do some of these things.

And the examples of, Facebook and others as well, but not practicing

standards, not being fully aware of what standards of legalities, et cetera,

et cetera, that they that they face.

Through this evolution of the function, we don't want to limit speed of insight.

Obviously, right.

I think COVID has proven that over the past few years, the research function

grew overall the research industry has grown particularly here in the U S

because of the need to get insights fast.

We, we needed to know what was going on so quickly.

And research is a function, proved its value in doing that.

We don't want to limit it, but yeah.

We also, we better put some parameters around this to make sure that we

don't get a little too crazy and start creating risk in creating liability

versus limiting it, which is one of the core elements of the function.

What do you think?

Absolutely.

Research operations is invested in the success of a research function,

but not in the day to day insights that research team and research

leaders should be focusing on.

But it's almost this unbiased little pocket of people who are really

invested in success of research, but the success of the customer.

And not a customer is that people are testing with.

End also the company.

And so they play this really critical joint for lack of a better word

where they're looking out for the best interests of the key players

in research and the company.

And I think that is a really important evolution.

And one that I think when you have a successful research ops team with the

right support and the right research leadership, or whoever's really

advocating for research ops and in an organization, they recognize that

and they see that the value can even extend well beyond a research team.

And I think that when you're talking about where research ops is going, that's

a really important part to recognize.

On the other side of our business, gen two consulting , we

have a lot of brands who come to us and say, look, we have been doing

things the same way for 20 years.

We know there's better ways to do this and we need help in figuring out.

What those better ways are and who we should partner with.

And then suppliers that we're supporting and helping to do better stuff.

But one of the issues we hear also from the brands is, procure.

Is a limiting factor in our ability to experiment and onboard.

And the researchers themselves are so busy that they don't have the time

to learn something new and therefore default to, their existing suppliers

simply because it's just easier to execute the project with them.

So in that type of dynamic, I imagine research operations can play a

critical role in bridging the gap or bridging the divide between

consistency and best practices, but also innovation and exploring the new

is that a good way to think about it?

That there's, that, that innovation role within research ops as well?

I think so.

We really, when you have a research ops team, it is not something that is likely

to help you overnight, but it is something that will get you to where you want to

be even a year down the road, three years down the road, this very conversation

came up on my last day at my past company

you're the research leader is looking three months ahead, Noel.

You're looking two years ahead.

It was a head scratcher for a moment like, huh?

Maybe I was not aligned to the research leader in the way the

research leader needed me to be, but I also, I took it as a great.

Compliment, because that's what my role really was.

I was looking and helping my team develop things that would advance the research

team beyond their current capabilities.

There are short wins and low-hanging fruit that a research ops team cannot

ignore, but that's the goal really in and as a research ops leader and my son.

It becomes particularly important for me to think about how to map for the future.

And I think that's where we're starting to see an increase in research operations.

Leadership roles is because they're starting to realize there's a lot more

that we could be doing, but it takes time and it takes thought, and it takes

diligence and all of those things.

You can't have a research leader or even research practitioners do it all.

It's physically impossible to create really insightful insights and deliver

those back to the organization at the same time that you're implementing

a tool that will sometimes take a year, between contract negotiations

and your security checkpoints, and.

Onboarding the tool and distributing licenses and all

the things associated with that.

It can happen a lot faster if you have a dedicated team.

I'm wondering when you hear the word operations, right?

You think tactical?

Yeah, that is, but what you're describing to me is far more strategic.

And.

I wonder if we actually even have a terminology issue here.

We've just been discussing that it is fundamentally important that there'll

be guard rails across the organization.

So we don't get in trouble while supporting innovation and in creativity

and being responsive to the needs of the business at the speed of

business, whatever that may be.

And part of the role of research operations is to fulfill that function.

But to your point, as you brought up thinking two years

out, that, that is a strategic.

Component that is not a tactical and an operational piece.

So have you ever thought about, is there a different way to think about this to

maybe get greater buy-in organizationally to say, look, we're not the, we're

not the people that are just trying to keep you from doing cool stuff.

We're the people trying to empower you to do cool stuff, but in a different way.

Yeah.

There's there are challenges with each part of this because what

you're really talking about is an evolution and elevating research

as a practice and how it gets done.

And I think we're just now starting to see this and depending on where

your organization is and their level of maturity, you may have

one researcher who's doing it all.

But in two years, you may have five to 10 researchers who are doing it all.

And maybe that's a good time to start introducing research operations.

And I, what I have seen is this very natural progression, which was

probably not going to surprise anybody, listening to this, where you start

small, you build, you prove your value.

You keep building and keep proving your value.

And you get to a point where you can start to think strategically, but you do.

It is really critical to build a strong foundation first, which is these

guard rails and these policies and procedures and programs that help amplify

research and elevate research in your organization, but also do it compliantly.

And it is, I think when we think about research ops and how it's growing this.

How we're seeing it grow with introduction of leadership and people who are

dedicated to thinking about that.

It is difficult.

It's not impossible, but it is difficult to be really tactical and

do your due recruiting, participant recruiting and all of those tactical

pieces and also be strategic.

It is difficult.

And I think that's why we're starting to see companies who are now starting

to introduce more leadership.

I can certainly see this buyers would think this idea of compliance

and keep it in between the rails.

This is this, the suppliers.

Not us, that's where they depend on their suppliers to do for them,

that the buyer, this the client side comes as here's our business issue.

You go forth and answer it and just make sure that you don't get

us in trouble in how that happens.

So almost an outsource function of research operations.

Is that you, do you think that there's still a significant.

Trade or challenge that exists in client organizations to not pay attention to

this the way they should, because they just don't think of it as their problem.

I think in client organizations, those problems exist

in, it's similar ways and there are scenarios where it makes sense to

outsource research that is happening because maybe it's a little too

prickly or a little too sensitive.

For a client organization to really dig into right.

For various reasons, maybe the participants themselves, like you

need to collect such incredible sensitive information on them and

you really can't do it anonymously.

And maybe that's a reason why they will need to outsource it to a company that

can But the burden of knowledge is still really great within a client organization,

whether they're outsourcing it or not.

I think you can't get away from it fully.

And I know we're speaking really broadly here.

Sure.

But it's, as a research function you're receiving data that has been processed

and in even inferred about individuals, even if it's anonymous, even if you're

collecting details at a large scale, you still have a responsibility to those

people who have provided you that data.

And I think it is a little irresponsible to think about it

being someone else's problem.

If you hold the key.

Well And certainly from a data privacy standpoint, for

like a GDPR, for instance, there's no, and everybody in the chain is

responsible equally responsible.

So yeah, there's no, no free passes in liability from that perspective.

And I think we'll see more and more of that evolve in in the U S and

other places just on that front.

We certainly saw in California.

And I think in New York similar similar legislation that says, Hey, if you touch

the data at all in any way, shape or form, you have equal responsibility in this.

So that makes good sense.

And it

is really important to CCPA is coming up with an amendment here pretty

soon in the next, I think it's dropping in 2023, but it has a look back for a year.

And so if research teams aren't talking to their privacy or legal teams about

what this means and what the impact is on research, even if it's received

from a vendor because those amendments will still impact the agreements

that you have with your suppliers.

So I think it's important to be aware and to do your due

diligence all across the board.

And this is what.

This gets pretty complicated and it is really helpful to have a team who has the

history and the knowledge and the close partnerships with those internal partners.

All right.

So let's switch gears for a minute.

How did you get into this specific focus know, tell us a little more

about your background and your journey that made you get to this point of

going, Hey, it's really important to have this capability and this

structure and driving the awareness of why this function is important.

Sure thing.

So I've been in this space for a little over a decade now, right?

I learned about research.

When I was at T-Mobile, I worked in recruiting, so HR recruiting and I

helped to hire a VP of innovation.

And basically that meant research and design.

He recruited me to become his executive assistant.

I lasted about six months in that role before I realized, okay.

I want a little bit of a different flavor for my work.

And I moved into a project coordinator role and became really close to research

and even conducted research myself.

And I loved the space.

I loved this space.

I was really drawn to the customer stories and research itself, but

it was very exhausting for me.

And I realized that.

Couldn't be a good researcher.

Like I loved the proximity to research and working with customers and I

fell in love with the process of research, but I also knew myself.

I'm a very detailed list kind of person.

And thankfully the role sort of emerged where I was able to help

support research in a project coordinated coordinator capacity.

From there, I hopped over to a project management role at a small

e-learning company out of Seattle.

And after that I was recruited to work at Salesforce where I spent nine years

in research operations and really was it was an incredible experience.

I love the company.

I still love the company.

But you know, nine years in one tech company is a really long time, but

I stayed that long one because I have, and I still have great respect

for the CEO, mark Benioff and the people who I worked with, I loved

the level of the company was doing.

And, enterprise software is not an extremely sexy place, but.

I just I found myself there and I came in again as a coordinator and

by the time I left, I was a senior manager leading the research ops team.

There was something really special in that, that I was able to see the life

of research and research ops really evolve over a long period of time.

And.

I wouldn't trade that experience for anything because I learned so much.

I learned so so much.

And so that's really how I found myself in it.

It was aligned for many years to the design organization and by

the time I left, the research had moved into a product strategy team.

And I didn't last long after that.

I think I was only there for about six months after that, but I knew

enough about my time there that I wanted to go and replicate it

somewhere else and help provide what I learned to another organization.

And I still feel that same way.

I think, the idea of moving on from research ops, especially now, like after

it's gotten steam in the industry, I would not be fulfilled like this is that for me.

I love research ops.

I live in breathe.

It I'm in it every day.

And now for me my goal is really to help nurture it occurs

of others in this industry

that is.

That's very cool.

And I, I suspected like many of us, you just fell into this.

I didn't do right.

Was very few people who go into research specifically.

So let's talk about this idea of supporting people in the future.

And being mentoring.

Because obviously there is an immense amount of experience and knowledge

and IP that that we need to pass on.

So if you think about either for yourself or organizationally in your next home.

How do you build that model to take what's in your head and in

what's in your background and and share that with others from a from

a knowledge sharing perspective, what does that mechanism look like?

What does that process look like to get this out there and raise the

profile and experience for everybody?

There's no one way to go about it.

I'd love to say I can write everything down into a playbook or a deck

and share that, but that would be a memoir and a book, an artifact

that someone could easily consume.

The way that I've approached it really is through the company and what the

company needs and helping to reflect that in my team and bring on people

who can help support the company.

And teaching them what I've learned along the way is really how I've approached it.

And no two companies are the same.

Every company looks a little different.

There might there's different flavors of research ops, no matter where you go.

When I first joined Robin hood participant recruitment, which is a cornerstone of

a good research ops team didn't exist.

It wasn't something we were doing.

And by the time I left, we had just started to scratch the surface

on what that would look like to support, research that way.

And I think the way I've approached it, because I have a great experience

coming from Salesforce and being able to build that out in a new

owner organization, I approach.

A little carefully, because it can be really complex in nature.

And when it was time to hire for program management and this role actually hired

somebody with a PhD in research and she was probably one of the best hires

of my career because she came with the knowledge of research and what it means.

To do research without having her to do a bunch of shadowing or partnering

with researchers to figure it out.

Like she already came to us with that.

But it was able to help give her guidance on maybe the approach could be like this

or maybe have you thought about this and was able to help guide her, but without

being overly prescriptive about it.

And that's something that I myself have learned in my own leadership journey.

Is how to help people get there and grow, but without

telling them exactly what to do.

And I think that's a really important part of helping someone shape their career.

All right.

So that brings up an interesting question on what is the we won't say

ideal, but maybe the typical approach.

Personality traits, experience that is relevant and appropriate

for a focus on research ops.

I think it really depends on the makeup of the team, the size

of the team, what kind of priorities this person or these people are.

To be working on I have worked in small teams that had generalists.

Do you know, people who were doing a little bit of everything, recruitment,

supplier relationships, training and development, team events, that sort

of thing they were doing at all.

And then I've also worked for teams.

I've also developed teams that shifted from that model.

To a more specialist role.

And I think there is a time and a place where that makes sense.

There's been this ratio that's been shared, one research ops

practitioner to every five researchers.

And that is one way you can approach, supporting a research team.

It's a great starting point, but it doesn't take into account.

The nuances of recruitment throughput, or even how difficult you are participants

are to get, or if there are horizontal programs that are taking priority over

recruitment, there's a lot of nuance.

And so there's no real one size fits all.

But at a certain point it can very well make sense to shift

to a team of specialists.

These are people who might be your dedicated participant recruiters

were really embedded in the day to day of research facilitation.

And then I mentioned horizontal program managers.

Those are the people who might have very specific duties that support

the entire research function, like research technology, or team care and

development, or even research visibility.

And so I really.

There is no one ideal.

But there is an ideal for each organization that

they'll have to sort out.

Okay.

Are there any Critical resources that you think are helpful for

anybody that's focusing on this content websites Greenbook anything

that you would say, Hey, you've gotta, you've gotta check this out.

If you want to understand this would be successful in this role.

There's a research ops community.

I don't have a URL in front of me, but there is a.

Community of research ops professionals have banded together and have created

a really great resource it's available.

If you just Google research ops community.

I'm a member of the slack channel.

Great.

So that's a good one.

Yeah, there's this for anybody in it already.

There's a subset of people who are doing research ops full time.

There's about 150 people.

Kate Tasy is the moderator of that group.

It includes research ops practitioners all around the world.

And we meet once a month to discuss learnings or challenges

or really hot topics specific to ops They are my tribe of people.

So they share jobs and ideas.

They ask questions, how does this thing exist at your company?

And so that's a really great resource.

So if you are already in this and you are doing this a hundred percent

of your time reach out to Kate tells you to get involved in that.

Okay.

What else?

Any publications is there any thought of forming some type of sub organization

maybe part of, one of the trade orgs or something of that nature?

Yeah, there's a podcast that Royal Pata leads.

He leads research at Zapier.

His research ops podcast is on Spotify and perhaps other places,

but that's how I listened to it.

It's called scaling research.

He has a really amazing perspective coming from life as a researcher, shifting

into research ops and building that out.

And now he's leading the entire research organization.

So aside from that great perspective, he also has this

really incredible radio voice.

Okay, better than mine.

I'll come on.

That's great.

I wasn't aware of that.

I am a member of that slack group and it is so incredibly active and prolific.

I can't.

All right.

I joined it.

I, pop in there every once in a while, but boy, there's just so

much happening, which is very cool.

Yeah.

And for those of you who like to read can you tell us, you use, literally,

she's writing a book about research ops and I don't know what her publication

date is, but it's coming soon.

I know she's been heads down for quite a while many months.

So look forward to that.

Okay.

All right.

So I want to be cautious of a of time, and there's a few more

topics that I wanted to touch on.

So now let's put on our prognosticators hats and think through all of the

changes that are happening to.

To the insights industry.

And I would categorize those primarily driven by technology that creates

efficiencies and that the collection and dissemination of insights as

well as the breadth, that the types of insights that are available.

And then.

A very long tail of dynamic changes to consumers, to culture, to buying

habits, to, behaviors across the board.

Where do you see the role of research operations helping to

shape and form how the insights function adapts to these changes?

I think we'll see some really interesting roles

emerge in the research ops space.

I suspect that we'll continue to see the growth of leadership roles, but

also the addition of new roles like digital librarians or insights experts.

When I think about a high functioning research team, researchers are

responsible to their set of stakeholders.

But aside from a research leader, I'm not sure who else is really

responsible for curating a collection of insights and telling an overall story.

And I think either with a nod to the platforms that are evolving

day by day to help do this, sometimes it can be too much.

And so you might need someone to help cure.

And whether that's a digital librarian or maybe even an editor or even

could take the shape of an analyst.

Like I think that is a really interesting thing that we might

expect to see in the future.

So you think that means as part of that, then the utilization of

what we would currently call knowledge management platforms that are the central

repository Of research information and content, but also as a central

repository of organizational knowledge and best practices is that you think that

I think that's fair.

And I, I love repositories.

I think they are great, but there is a duty that people have to make

sure that it's not just a place.

It's not a graveyard, where insights go to.

And some of that is institutional knowledge, but it requires someone really

thoughtful to pull together and breathe life into those insights over time and

make sure that we're, you're not doing research on a theme that was researched

two years ago and you're building upon the insights that you have that doesn't

happen through a tool itself that takes at least at this point in time.

On what's available in the market today.

I think that takes a little bit more thought and I'm curious.

Yeah, it's definitely not a dump.

It's not like my hard drive.

So I know I got that file from 20 years ago, somewhere in here.

Yes.

Also my picture reel my albums on my Iphone, or like,

where is that one picture?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that almost library and function is critical because we waste so much

Time and energy and money from a research perspective, duplicating things that

we've already done over and over again.

That's a chronic challenge.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Either it will take the shape of somebody or the shape of somebodies,

like really good researchers will have to start using the tools at

their disposal to make sure that.

The research they're doing is a bit more efficient.

And, that's a hard thing to do when you're staring down stakeholder deadlines.

And it's a hard thing to be mindful of, but I do think it's going to become a

bit more critical in this revolution of digital that we're means deepen.

Absolutely.

And uncovering more.

More insights actually, right before we got on was chatting with a client

who a supplier and doing some work to understand what their strategy looks like.

And one of the piece of feedback from their customers was what we

want you to be more, do more meta analysis and be more consultative.

And the.

Yeah.

And that's a challenge, not just for a supplier, but also internally for the

organization, because it requires, well, we need access to the information, right?

We need these things in one place to be able to do that.

And it is a labor intensive process, but to your point of the technology is

certainly emerging where that'll make that easier and hopefully become table-stakes.

So got a last couple of questions.

What have you've been reading or engaged in lately?

Not even just about research operations, but anything, what's really, cranking

your gears lately , from a content or thought leadership perspective.

So I have two littles and they demand a lot of my free time,

so I'm not prioritizing reading.

Like I wish I could.

But in the cracks of my day, I'm reading a book called the impact survival guide.

It is giving me some really helpful tactics for prioritizing my needs and

whole person health so that when I do start to feel overwhelmed or exhausted,

or, you know, just flat out drained, it doesn't progress to like a total.

For an out episode.

So I'm just into it now.

So far, it's been good.

It's been really helpful.

And I think it's an easy thing to do, especially for anybody in this day and

age is to make that time to be more reflective and sort out what you need

to survive in, in this wild world.

We live in.

Yeah, I used to do.

May time every day for meditation and, and some function of prayer, some

spiritual time got away from that for many, many, many, many, many, many years.

I'll tell you around fall of 2020, suddenly that, that became important

again, I need time to get centered and, Balanced out or else I'm

going to go nuts with all of the demands of, and chaos and et cetera.

I have five kids.

So I know what that is like across the board.

I applaud you for finding that, making that a priority now, because yeah.

It's important.

It is important.

Yeah.

And I, I think the conversations have started opening up right.

Remote work is starting to take a a front seat, whereas before it wasn't and maybe

you had commute time, did you compress before heading into personal life after

work, but now, whew, man, you step out of the office and you're immediately

bombarded with what's for dinner.

Did you go to the bathroom?

Okay.

What time is bedtime?

Like the daily demands are still there, but I think being kind to

yourself as the best thing you can do.

That, what have you found to be one of the most important

things to do to be kind to yourself?

I am a person where if I'm coming out of a day of meetings, you

know, 14 different meetings some days which is probably not too dissimilar from

people who are listening on the phone.

I have found that I really, really need the transit.

And even if it's just sitting in the room, quiet room, maybe dark room

for five minutes is really helpful.

So that I'm in the right Headspace for people who I love, because if I don't

allow myself that time and that space to come down, I am not a very nice

person and I'm irritable and not a person who I would want to be around.

So it's really, really important to get that separation from.

And so it's something that I actively have pulled in to my life.

And so far people seem appreciative.

Good advice.

Good advice.

The I have, similarly, I've worked from home for almost 20 years, so that this has

been something that was not new for me.

we decided to homeschool this year, which was a whole other level of craziness.

Yeah.

I our listeners are not seeing the look.

I know L's face she's.

She looks a gassed, so that's one word for it.

Insane is another, but.

No.

Well, this has been a delight and I hope that you'll come back and join us again.

You've also threw out some great suggestions for inadvertently

of other folks that we may reach out to to be guests.

Is there anyone else that you would say, wow, Lenny, you really need to

ask so-and-so to come on and chat with that you think would be a great.

Roy Kate.

And another point I might recommend is Lisa Meckler.

So she leads up the research ops team at Airbnb.

She's really fantastic.

And I think she'd have a lot of great things to share.

Okay.

All right.

Duly noted.

So what's next for you?

So, I'm going to go to acupuncture.

I'm going to go pick up the kids from, from school, from preschool.

But you're talking about work.

So I have a couple of glorious weeks out before I start my next adventure.

I'm heading over to zero.

They are a New Zealand based company.

They do small business accounting software and I'll be leading up

the research ops team over there.

Very very cool.

And where can our listeners reach you if you want them to?

Please.

I love talking about research ops.

You can find me on LinkedIn.

LinkedIn is the best place Noel.

That's great.

Well, well, thank you.

This is great.

Go do your acupuncture and enjoy the weekend with your kids.

Thank you.

Thank you to our listeners.

Thank you to our producers.

Emily and Joseph and we'll be back again with another edition of the podcast.