The Synergy Between Coaching and Professional Speaking

Summary

In this episode, hosts Angie and John explore the synergy between coaching and professional speaking.

The duo, both experienced coaches and speakers, discuss how public speaking can significantly benefit a coaching business, offering insights into getting started, the importance of competence, and ways to leverage speaking engagements for client acquisition.

They also discuss the types of speaking opportunities—paid and unpaid—and how to evaluate them based on return on investment rather than monetary compensation alone.

The discussion covers essential strategies, pitfalls to avoid, and advice on building an ecosystem that integrates speaking as a crucial element of a successful coaching practice.

Finally, they touch upon the importance of getting training and being intentional about choosing the right speaking opportunities.

Keywords

coaching, speaking, professional development, public speaking, coaching practice, audience engagement, return on investment, expertise, personal branding, networking, coaching, speaking, professional ecosystem, income streams, sustainable practices, referrals, speaking opportunities, coaching business, audience engagement, business strategy

Takeaways

Coaching and speaking can complement each other effectively.

Competence in speaking is crucial for coaches.

Paid speaking opportunities can provide significant exposure.

Understanding ROI is essential when considering speaking engagements.

Expertise and authority enhance a speaker's credibility.

Finding your unique voice is key to impactful speaking.

Not everyone will resonate with your message, and that's okay.

Utilizing speaking can significantly expand a coaching practice.

Networking through speaking can lead to more opportunities.

Speaking should be part of a coach's professional ecosystem. Building a professional ecosystem is essential for coaches.

Multiple income streams can provide stability in coaching.

Selling from the stage requires a different approach than speaking.

Referrals are crucial for sustaining a coaching business.

Training and preparation are key for successful speaking engagements.

Understanding the logistics of speaking is important for coaches.

Not all speaking opportunities are legitimate; be cautious.

Your reputation begins with your first speaking engagement.

Engaging the right audience is more important than the size of the audience.

Taking action is necessary to grow your coaching practice.

Titles

The Power of Speaking in Coaching

Unlocking the Synergy: Coaching and Speaking

Navigating Paid and Unpaid Speaking Opportunities

Maximizing ROI in Speaking Engagements

Sound Bites

"I think that's the key word is competently."

"You can't just get up and talk."

"Never speak for free."

"Free isn't always about money."

"I believe that in my heart."

"You need to know what you're doing."

"You need a lot more than that."

"Your reputation starts when you start."

"You have to start getting some stage time."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction: Synergy Between Coaching and Speaking

01:13 Personal Experiences in Coaching and Speaking

02:40 The Importance of Speaking in Coaching

05:46 Paid vs. Unpaid Speaking Engagements

08:34 Building a Speaking Career

12:53 The Art of Public Speaking

19:44 Navigating Speaking Opportunities and Scams

38:26 Conclusion and Next Steps

Do you think there's a synergy between coaching

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and professional speaking?

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Angie: To some degree.

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Yeah.

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Why do you ask?

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John: I have this idea that

speaking could be a great way

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to feed my coaching practice.

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Angie: Ooh, I could see that, but

also I think there are some clear

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distinctions between the two.

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John: Oh, fair enough.

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Let's dive in and see what

our audience think too.

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Angie: Ah, that's why we're here.

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Let's start the show.

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Yeah.

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John: Angie our audience our listener

could not have really two more

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qualified people to talk about this

today I'm happy to say we are both

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very experienced in the speaking

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world and we've been Both been very

experienced in coaching other people

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in this area as well And so let's put

our knowledge and experience to work

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for our listener here And maybe just

start off we're talking about why

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You Coaching by speaking

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from the stages is relevant

and important for coaches.

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Angie: I think I was

really surprised by that.

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That I had that epiphany myself

of, I didn't, I did not initially

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think that there was synergy.

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I, it never dawned on me.

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Which I know sounds a little crazy

because I started out specifically

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in the coaching space, right?

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I was a one to one coach and

trainer and all of a sudden, right?

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The idea came to life that I

could actually get more clients

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by doing speaking events.

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so that was how it began for me,

but still I had no idea that there

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was a way to unite those two ideas.

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Well,

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John: Realization, yeah, the

connections came along the way

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to started to join the dots.

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And when I realized that I was going

to events to learn how to be a better

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coach or to do particular personal and

professional development related things

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There were people on stages talking

training teaching whatever and I started

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to make the connections that okay that

is actually part of coaching as well.

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That is A really important thing to be

able to get up on the stage in front

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of people and I think a lot of people

don't want to do that bit because

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their coaching often is generally

like the one to one thing Or we have

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our group coaching which we probably

usually do online these days But

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getting up on a stage in front of other

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people still feels Very much like

you're exposed and highly vulnerable in

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those situations and people are, very

scared of doing that yeah, I it's such

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a critical part I think now of coaching

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And it's even expected That you should

be able to get up and talk about

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what you do who you help how you

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help and things like that And to do that

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competently.

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Angie: I think that's the key word is

competently, I think again you said

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this in the beginning in our intro

today that, we're very experienced

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in this, cause we are right.

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We've trained.

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people, coaches, and even people

who are already speakers on how to

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be better speakers, how to attract

and how to have the conversation.

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It's funny because I think our

experiences were similar, that

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so many people think it's just,

I just love, people just love me.

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That's why I want to be a speaker.

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They, I, somebody told me once that I

have a great way of relating to people?

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and poof, they think they have.

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A speaking business and I think that's

the point that coaching and speaking,

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although very similar in terms of

you can't just get up and talk.

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Nobody wants to just hear you talk.

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There has to be some kind

of mission behind it.

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There has to be some solution,

some problem that you're

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solving so that people are.

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Sitting in that audience on the edge

of their seat, if you will, waiting

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for you to solve that problem for them.

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So it's almost to me, like in my mind,

we talked about one to one coaching,

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then we talk about group coaching.

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and for me, I think of that speaking space

as the probably highest level of coaching.

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Or highest level of group coaching

because you are still up there coaching.

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You're just doing it probably

with a different format and

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energy and all of those things.

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John: And that is also a point where

it becomes particularly relevant

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that you have your niche area that

you know what you're talking about

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and who you want to be talking about

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that to that you have things

like your framework that you have

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maybe your book maybe you have at

least your coaching philosophy and

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if you don't have clarity on those things

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you just doesn't mean you can't get up and

speak still it just means it's maybe not

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going to be that cohesive at this stage

whilst you're still Figuring those things

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out, but it will make sense to do it

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But do you think paid speaking

is important for coaches or

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should coaches be looking more at

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unpaid stuff?

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Angie: I think that depends.

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I'm sorry.

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I know that's like the ambiguous

answer that nobody wants to hear.

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For example, if somebody comes to

me with an opportunity and says,

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Hey, we're looking for somebody

to speak on such and such a topic.

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And, we found you're relevant here.

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But it's, it's not for profit.

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You're not making any money.

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We're not paying for it.

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There's no budget.

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I, my first question is

how many are in attendance?

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That's my first question.

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Because if I have the opportunity to

get in front of, sometimes it's been,

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thousands of people like, Oh, we're

having our big conference and there's

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going to be 5, 000 women in attendance.

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I will tell you that I will

walk to that conference to

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get in front of 5, 000 women.

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Right.

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Because of all the opportunity it creates

within my business structure, if they're

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asking me to do it for free and it's like

a busy time of the year for me, I have to

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really make a business decision on that.

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I can't say yes to everything.

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So I think.

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Here's the answer.

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I think it's a very personal choice to

decide when, where, and how you would

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do a complimentary speaking event.

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What about you?

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What do you do?

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John: I take the perspective

of one of my business coaches

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over the years.

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And she said She's a

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very successful speaker herself.

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She

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said Never speak for

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free Never speak for free and that

doesn't mean that you're always going

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to get paid for every event that you

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do But you have to be able to

see a clear return on investment

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for doing it.

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It has to be Very obvious what the purpose

is doing that and sometimes that might

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be because you want to give you just

want to give you want To serve you

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want to help you get paid that way

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you get the good feeling.

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Okay It's not what we traditionally think

of as getting paid It's not money in the

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bank But another other times it might

be that you get to speak in front of the

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right audience And you know that you get

it you get invited to go to event where

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you may not be getting paid for it They

may cover some costs for you, but you're

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going to be with an audience of your ideal

target avatar Other times it may actually

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be that you're not going to get paid But

you're going to be able to network and

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you're going to be very well thought of

you know You're going to be considered for

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future opportunity And get your face seen

or maybe even get the media opportunity

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you want or as we speak as we watch it

Maybe you're going to get your demo video

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Stuff recorded there And have some content

that you can use from a live event As

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media for yourself You There could be a

number of reasons for doing it, but not

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just speaking for free, not just getting

up on any old stage, but being intentional

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and practical about it as well.

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Angie: Listen, I think you just

gave our audience, our listeners,

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a really big coaching moment.

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Right understanding And defining the word

free because automatically when you say

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the word free People, you know immediately

apply that to monetary free, right?

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so you mentioned return on

investment That's really what we're

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talking about here is, you being

able to decide Is this worth it?

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Is this does this feel

like it's the right space?

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Because again free isn't always about

money It's, is there a reason why?

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For example I've gone back and spoken

many times at my college alma mater,

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just because, and I've, they've had a

budget, and I've accepted the, it's an,

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it's not a big budget, but I've accepted

it because Of the fact that, I'm here a

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couple of decades later, speaking in the

same space where I was once learning.

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So to me, that's just a

personal decision to do that.

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Is it my norm?

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No.

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So I think that our listeners should

very closely pay attent Very close

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attention, I should say, to What

you said about return on investment,

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that's really what the focus should be.

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It shouldn't be about, is this free?

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Am I doing it for no, you

can't look at it that way.

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John: In the early days, in your

early days as a speaker, maybe free is

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getting your experience, getting your

practice sessions in without having the

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fear of people have paid you for this.

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So you know, there's an expectation

that you have To deliver it.

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Extra professional value because you

have to give them bang for their buck.

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So you might want to take that pressure

off and just get the experience great

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That's still not speaking for free.

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You're getting what you need out of

this And so it's saying this isn't just

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saying yes to every opportunity that

potentially comes up to get up on a stage

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Angie: I think it goes

back to also, right?

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Why?

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What is the synergy between

coaching and speaking?

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So kind of what I mentioned

earlier, I feel like I

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accidentally fell into speaking.

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Although if I think about it, having

been a high level trainer for so many

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years and for different companies doing

different things, I didn't realize that.

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As they were saying to me throw

some of that Angie spirit into it.

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I was like, what?

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And I just did that.

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But basically what I was doing

was creating my brand, my rhythm.

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I wasn't just training people, right?

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I literally was speaking.

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It became more motivational as time

passed, which is how I kind of fell into

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this and realized to my point at the very

beginning of today's episode that I'm

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able to utilize speaking as a way to And

it's not just to get one to one clients.

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It's just to expand myself to get in

front of so many more people at one time

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so that people are calling me and saying,

Hey, I saw you here or I saw this video

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and would you come and do this with

our organization or our association?

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So it's really a great way to just

get brought in that and expand.

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The footprint of what you're doing.

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John: I do think it's It's been the

case for centuries that being able

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to get up on a stage and speak well

is a sign of, firstly, it's a sign of

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intelligence, but also it's a signal

for respect and expertise as well.

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It's something that has been referred

to as the expert threshold that the,

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By virtue of you being on a stage a

lot of the time people assume you are

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an expert and you know that you know

more Probably than they do may not

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always be the case, but that is the

general that is the general assumption

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there and Being able to do that.

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To be eloquent to be entertaining to

be powerful with your words when you

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speak about Has always been one of the

most Influential things a person can do.

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People really take notice when someone

is a great Communicator as a as a speaker

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as professional speaker a public speaker.

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Angie: I think that lends itself

to the idea that, when you and I've

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had, this is going to go back again.

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We've had that experience where, we've

coached and trained people and it's a

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little it's, if you're not already a

speaker and it's something that you're

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considering doing, or maybe you're

listening to this and you never thought

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about it and you're saying, hey, maybe

I should try this like speaking thing.

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Yeah.

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I would certainly advise that you

get yourself somebody like even John,

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by the way, who trains people on

specifically how to be a better presenter.

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It's not something you just

throw yourself onto a stage

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and say, Oh, now I'm a speaker.

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It is a, an art form because it's

so the dynamic of it is so different

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than what you might be doing.

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If you're an amazing coach

on a one to 10, you're a 12.

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It's still a different space.

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In terms of being able to

have that influence and to

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your point, John, it's true.

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The minute people see us on a stage,

there's this assumption that we are

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an expert in something and that we

have the authority to be there, right?

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We have the right to be there.

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And that's not always the case because

each and every one of us has had

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our first And of course, if we look

back on earlier video and things of

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ourselves, we can kind of go, Oh, my

gosh, what is social media doing to me?

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This should be somewhere

burned in the archives.

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We don't ever want to see it again

because we learn and we grow.

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But I think at the end of the day, there

needs to be the understanding that if

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you are going to either start becoming

a speaker or looking to incorporate

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speaking into your coaching practice,

that, there are some things that you

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really do have to learn how to do, so that

you can compete with the big guys from

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Almost day one, like, how would you feel

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if you knew then what you know now, right?

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If you had somebody, this fairy,

this speaking fairy, god person that

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could, sprinkle you with the pixie

dust, like how, what would have

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changed in your speaking career?

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John: I would have gotten on bigger

stages a lot faster, but that's just

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the reality of it and would undoubtedly

have a bigger profile than I do.

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Angie: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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John: I mean, those are just some of

the things that I can think of, but yeah

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but they're quite, they're kind of huge.

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And.

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You're correct in what you're saying

about if you actually really want to

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be able to compete with the bigwigs in

speaking or in coaching, I should say,

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really the names that you probably have

come across, or the people whose books

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you might be familiar with, or courses

you've attended, they're nearly all.

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I can't think of an exception

to this and you're very good

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speakers and presenters as well.

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Angie: You know what's interesting?

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I think that what makes a great

speaker is really dependent upon

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the message in the audience.

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Right?

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We're not just as we're not,

I'm not a coach for all people.

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You're not a coach for all people.

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I think it's the same within speaking.

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I personally am probably way too

animated to get up and speak in front

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of A technology space, that person,

that avatar, because they just probably

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run out like their heads are on fire.

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Like she's just way too much, right?

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Because I am very myself.

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I'm not somebody who gets up and

starts to speak as though I'm standing

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behind the podium and I'm stiff.

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I am wearing sneakers.

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Sometimes I'm all over the place.

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I am, I'm interacting with the audience.

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So you really kind of have to understand

and decide for yourself like, who are you?

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What's the image, because you look at like

you said, some of the bigger names that

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are out there, some of them are rough.

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I mean, really rough.

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I won't go into names, but they're

But they're still super impactful.

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Then there are others who are a lot

more polished, but still impactful.

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So you almost really need to figure out

truly like what, again, this is all going

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to be, part of who you're talking to,

what the message is, but kind of figuring

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that out earlier on will definitely

help make that impact when you do get

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up on a stage, can't just get up on

any stage talking about any old thing.

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Who are you and what is

it that you're doing?

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Right,

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John: it does make a difference when

we're talking about this as to who

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you are speaking to And who your

message is for and you're right.

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We're not right for everybody even if

you have that topic that is everyone

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could benefit from this great Everyone

maybe could benefit from it but not

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everyone is going to and one of the

reasons for that is because There are

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going to be people who don't like the

messenger And they don't like the way

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the messenger puts the message and that's

okay We don't need everyone to like us.

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It's actually a good thing because there

are also going to be those people who Do

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get it and do like you and really resonate

with what you're saying and they are your

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people they are your audience And so you

should really want some people Not to

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like you and I got asked the other day

what would you say if someone came up

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to you and said I don't like you I said

good You I would say good that would be

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my instinctive first response to that and

not in a I'm, happy you don't like me kind

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of in the sort of way, but more of a But

more of a good not everyone is supposed

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to like me and I don't need everybody to

like me I don't want everybody to like me.

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It's okay that you don't like me.

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i'm cool with it.

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Great.

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Angie: I would say this, Okay.

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So I feel like if everybody likes

you, my perspective is that if

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everybody likes you, to me, that's

indicative of the idea that you

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don't really have a strong message.

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Because it's like you're relating

to tune, until you become like

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the Pope or somebody like really

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John: to have changed

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Angie: Gandhi Okay, like where it's

oh, you know I have this universal

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feeling and even then there were

people who were like, I don't believe

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in that I don't dislike you, but

it doesn't I don't believe in that.

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So that just then tells me that

you're not deep enough Right?

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That, that it's still the

net is still way too wide.

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Do you know what I mean?

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I believe that if everybody

really loves you, i'm always

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going to ask that question.

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Really?

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What did they really love about you?

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Because sometimes they get caught

up in like the person and the

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delivery more than the message.

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So I'm always curious that, it's

not that everybody likes you.

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It's just that you want to

be able to know that you are

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connecting with the right audience.

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John: I've I've been at personal

development events before where i've seen

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people getting up and walking out on the

first day of a two and a half or three day

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event and you think oh that's terrible,

but it's not that it's not for them.

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It's not right for them they need to go

where is right for them And it's like some

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people may find themselves in smaller much

smaller kind of settings and audiences

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where it might feel more awkward to do

that, but Still you still have to get

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yourself into the right rooms with the

right voices and Not everything is going

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to be right for You have to be okay that's

the case that it's always going to be

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that some people no matter what you do

Are not going to like you or are going

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to criticize you or they're going to

have negative feedback and responses to

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you That's cool But for those people who

don't for the people who really connect

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with you and get your message and what

you're all about serve those people and

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let the other people You know get there

when they're ready or whatever let them

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be free fly away Enjoy your life and

no bad feeling or anything like that.

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Just It's okay.

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It's all good

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Angie: No, I think learning

to be okay with it is fine.

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I've had plenty of conversations

where people are, discovery calls,

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if you will, where it wasn't

the right fit at the moment.

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And that's for both coaching and for

speaking, no, we're sorry, this isn't

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really our focus right now for what

we want at our conference, right?

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Our annual conference, we really want

something that's more that this and this.

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And if that's not something that I

can deliver for them, I have to bow

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out and say, great, you know what?

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Keep me in mind when you're talking about

this or this, because I'm your person.

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I'm the person for that.

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So it's good it's really a

big networking pool anyway.

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So yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like

being able to comp, utilize speaking

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to compliment a coaching practice.

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Is awesome.

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It's almost to me like now that I

know better is why wouldn't you?

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John: My thinking here's where I start

with this, as well I think most people

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Unless you're just doing one to one

sessions or group sessions, and you

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don't want to do anything else Then you

will probably want to consider things

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like speaking as an at least as an

opportunity to get yourself more clients

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But but certainly if you want to do if

you want to have your own business doing

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this and grow and expand as a coach You

need to have speaking as part of your

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professional ecosystem To have those

like higher level things like speaking

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events, like having a book, like having

maybe a podcast or a YouTube channel or

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whatever it is that you want to have.

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I think they are more higher level

things that you need to have the

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business foundation stuff probably.

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At least figured out first of all

But I do think they're valuable and

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important parts of a professional

ecosystem for most professional

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coaches who have their own business

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Angie: ecosystem folks because I think

the days to your point of I'm just gonna

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sit and have my quiet little one to

one practice and I have no regrets by

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the way And that's all it was for me.

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That was okay Because that's all I saw

speaking has evolved Greatly in the last,

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say, decade or so, decade and a half, and

it is, I feel like it's almost essential.

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Feed the ecosystem I love

that you use that word, right?

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Think of it as it's not just a singular

space anymore There's a whole bunch of

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things going on and there's ways for those

spaces to feed each other, you know I'm a

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believer and John, you know this like I'm

a believer of have I don't say as many,

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but I like having multiple income streams.

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I don't like to rely on one

specific space because if there's

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going to be ebbs and flow, right?

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It's sometimes one might,

speaking might be hot.

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It's the season.

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And then it might not be.

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I don't want a cyclical business having

speaking and coaching at the same time

384

00:23:45,171 --> 00:23:50,521

creates that opportunity for you to

have those multiple income streams where

385

00:23:50,671 --> 00:23:54,571

although they feed each other, they're

not necessarily reliant on each other.

386

00:23:54,951 --> 00:23:57,491

I think that helps to create longevity.

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If you really want to be successful,

kind of looking at it as a business

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strategy rather than, Oh my

gosh, now I have to be a speaker.

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Not everybody wants to get up and

be a Tony or, a whomever, right?

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The big stage.

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Not everybody aspires to that.

392

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I would tell you this

is going to be funny.

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If I knew then what I know now,

he and I would be sharing a stage.

394

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I believe that in my heart.

395

00:24:23,041 --> 00:24:26,031

I believe that if I had the foresight.

396

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To see where the industries were

going, I would have paid closer

397

00:24:30,706 --> 00:24:37,006

attention and been much more serious,

I think, about what I was doing,

398

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but I missed that boat a little bit.

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So it's easy for me to go back

now and say, okay, now let's,

400

00:24:42,586 --> 00:24:44,416

how do I create this ecosystem?

401

00:24:44,416 --> 00:24:45,136

I love that.

402

00:24:45,536 --> 00:24:46,406

Everybody hear that?

403

00:24:46,456 --> 00:24:47,386

Ecosystem.

404

00:24:47,396 --> 00:24:51,676

That's what your business needs

to look like if you want it to be.

405

00:24:52,061 --> 00:24:57,821

a long term and successful Business

that can rely it's self reliant

406

00:24:58,496 --> 00:25:01,726

John: Here's the other thing because

there are people who are going

407

00:25:01,726 --> 00:25:04,066

to want that high level thing.

408

00:25:04,066 --> 00:25:11,001

Maybe they want to Be competing with

people like Tony or Brendan or say

409

00:25:11,111 --> 00:25:13,351

Harv, he's kind of retired somewhat now.

410

00:25:13,351 --> 00:25:16,831

And but, that there are those

programs are still being sold

411

00:25:17,011 --> 00:25:19,241

from live events from stages.

412

00:25:19,741 --> 00:25:24,321

I recently interviewed a guy called Mitch

Carson who does exactly this he sells

413

00:25:24,321 --> 00:25:28,341

programs From the stage and he's actually

selling his program about how to sell

414

00:25:28,341 --> 00:25:32,161

programs on the stage ironically enough

but you know talking about things like you

415

00:25:32,291 --> 00:25:37,571

can sell if you have a Program, of course

a program live events and you want to

416

00:25:37,571 --> 00:25:41,421

sell big bucks on those They're big groups

of people you get on stages and share

417

00:25:41,421 --> 00:25:46,856

stages where you can actually sell those

programs But no The reality is selling

418

00:25:46,856 --> 00:25:50,076

from the stage is very different to just

speaking from the stage so this is these

419

00:25:50,076 --> 00:25:53,796

are not necessarily the same things that

we're talking about here most times if

420

00:25:53,796 --> 00:25:58,286

you're getting booked as a keynote or, as

a speaker An event or a workshop leader

421

00:25:58,566 --> 00:26:04,066

you won't be put in the opportunity to

be able to Do that kind of what they call

422

00:26:04,076 --> 00:26:07,316

a bookstore where you're presenting your

course or your program and getting people

423

00:26:07,456 --> 00:26:11,586

to just buy it that rarely happens unless

it's been agreed up front and if it hasn't

424

00:26:11,586 --> 00:26:14,946

been agreed up front You They won't thank

you for it and they won't book you again.

425

00:26:14,946 --> 00:26:18,406

they probably won't they'll probably

They you get a stinky review from them.

426

00:26:18,816 --> 00:26:19,966

So so don't do that.

427

00:26:19,986 --> 00:26:24,486

Don't piss people off with this but For

those places where you will Or wait,

428

00:26:24,486 --> 00:26:27,796

if that's something you want to do

then absolutely you can set that up or

429

00:26:27,796 --> 00:26:32,236

maybe even create your own events or

get Find those opportunities to get up

430

00:26:32,236 --> 00:26:35,846

and sell but make sure you know what

you're doing That you believe in what

431

00:26:35,846 --> 00:26:40,276

you're selling and that you know how to

deliver a good bookstore And I would say

432

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if you don't One of the best resources I

could probably give you is to check out

433

00:26:44,831 --> 00:26:49,541

some of Russell Brunson's books because

he actually goes through exactly how

434

00:26:49,541 --> 00:26:52,191

he creates a bookstore for his events.

435

00:26:52,191 --> 00:26:54,951

I can't remember which one he is but

you know his events with all the sort

436

00:26:54,961 --> 00:26:58,851

of like dot com secrets and things

like that he has one that where he

437

00:26:58,851 --> 00:27:03,011

goes through the whole process of

exactly what he puts in a bookstore.

438

00:27:03,281 --> 00:27:05,661

It's if that's where you want

to be and want to be competing

439

00:27:05,821 --> 00:27:07,021

you should learn how to do that.

440

00:27:07,633 --> 00:27:10,723

Angie: Listen I think it comes down to

what you're saying what you just said I

441

00:27:10,753 --> 00:27:15,023

love all of that and I hope that people

are listening really carefully because

442

00:27:15,323 --> 00:27:21,543

the landscape has changed In terms of

gaining access to new clients, right?

443

00:27:21,623 --> 00:27:27,813

To filling a pipeline of coaching

clients and being a speaker is not

444

00:27:27,813 --> 00:27:29,843

only it's got that warm synergy.

445

00:27:29,853 --> 00:27:31,403

It's got that, but it is

446

00:27:31,403 --> 00:27:36,093

not enough anymore because there's so

much competition So you have to know

447

00:27:36,093 --> 00:27:41,918

and believe and understand that Your

competitors are using the stage to feed

448

00:27:41,918 --> 00:27:44,458

their business, to feed the ecosystem.

449

00:27:44,458 --> 00:27:48,798

It's like putting the right things where

coral can live and where it can't live.

450

00:27:49,048 --> 00:27:53,798

So you really have to make sure that

you're doing all of the same things, even,

451

00:27:53,828 --> 00:27:58,528

and again, this doesn't mean that you're

looking to be like this top notch speaker.

452

00:27:58,528 --> 00:27:59,898

Maybe we end up having a different.

453

00:28:00,343 --> 00:28:05,233

Episode where we talk about speaking

specifically, since you and I have so much

454

00:28:05,233 --> 00:28:11,183

experience there as it is, but in terms

of creating that coaching practice that

455

00:28:11,373 --> 00:28:17,183

is sustainable, I do, I really believe you

have to incorporate all the things that

456

00:28:17,183 --> 00:28:21,213

are going to help bring you those clients.

457

00:28:22,158 --> 00:28:24,108

Regularly fill the pipeline.

458

00:28:24,108 --> 00:28:25,957

Yeah.

459

00:28:26,087 --> 00:28:31,147

John: thing that speaking will

do is generate referrals for you.

460

00:28:31,787 --> 00:28:35,487

And we know how referrals are the

lifeblood of a coaching business.

461

00:28:35,497 --> 00:28:37,887

So we absolutely want those.

462

00:28:37,907 --> 00:28:41,217

It will get you speaking referrals

and it'll get you coaching referrals.

463

00:28:41,587 --> 00:28:44,937

And what I'm talking about, not

necessarily selling from the stage.

464

00:28:44,937 --> 00:28:46,267

If you don't have that kind of.

465

00:28:46,722 --> 00:28:50,412

Agreement and platform that doesn't mean

you can't mention that you're a coach or

466

00:28:50,412 --> 00:28:53,532

you can't mention that you have coaching

programs or that you can't give your

467

00:28:53,532 --> 00:28:57,612

audience a place to come and find out more

about you and what's available and what

468

00:28:57,622 --> 00:29:02,732

else you offer But those sorts of things

are usually fine But when I talk what I'm

469

00:29:02,732 --> 00:29:06,032

saying is, like you probably shouldn't

do is, say i've got this course and

470

00:29:06,032 --> 00:29:09,702

program Maybe i've got this ten thousand

dollar program and i'm going to sell it

471

00:29:09,702 --> 00:29:12,942

in an event where they've come and paid

me to speak But we haven't talked about

472

00:29:13,662 --> 00:29:15,402

Me selling my program to their audience.

473

00:29:15,402 --> 00:29:16,572

They're not going to thank you for that.

474

00:29:16,572 --> 00:29:19,122

They're not going to like it

Usually the agreements have to be

475

00:29:19,122 --> 00:29:22,012

made for that and often because

those are kind of events that will

476

00:29:22,012 --> 00:29:24,682

allow that They want a cut as well.

477

00:29:24,752 --> 00:29:26,242

They're putting you on their stage.

478

00:29:26,292 --> 00:29:31,012

They're often paying for you to be

there They want their share of what you

479

00:29:31,012 --> 00:29:33,802

make for them from the end stage Which

is another reason why I say if you're

480

00:29:33,802 --> 00:29:38,712

going to do that you need to be damn

good at it And should probably get some

481

00:29:38,712 --> 00:29:40,432

professional coaching and mentoring in

482

00:29:40,453 --> 00:29:41,343

Angie: absolutely.

483

00:29:41,343 --> 00:29:45,493

I don't really think anybody even if

you're some amazing articulate because

484

00:29:45,493 --> 00:29:49,373

I think when people think about speaking

They think about what they know is

485

00:29:49,623 --> 00:29:51,013

can I get up in front of people?

486

00:29:51,013 --> 00:29:52,183

Am I comfortable?

487

00:29:52,433 --> 00:29:58,993

but they don't really understand

the logistics of the of doing

488

00:29:59,003 --> 00:30:00,893

some things with that intention.

489

00:30:01,123 --> 00:30:03,873

It's not sometimes it's not

like what you know, it's who you

490

00:30:03,873 --> 00:30:05,743

know, and it's how you know it.

491

00:30:05,773 --> 00:30:10,033

It's how you know it and I

think your point is very valid.

492

00:30:10,663 --> 00:30:14,633

Having somebody to take you

through that journey and help you

493

00:30:14,633 --> 00:30:18,073

incorporate this is I think essential.

494

00:30:18,823 --> 00:30:24,043

And I also think it's going to help

you achieve those goals much more

495

00:30:24,043 --> 00:30:26,063

quickly than if you just go it alone.

496

00:30:26,593 --> 00:30:30,073

And again, you and I've experienced

that where we've seen people who

497

00:30:30,073 --> 00:30:32,223

are like, No, I'm really great.

498

00:30:32,223 --> 00:30:33,673

And I just need this.

499

00:30:34,013 --> 00:30:34,703

No, you don't.

500

00:30:35,013 --> 00:30:35,303

Right?

501

00:30:35,853 --> 00:30:37,543

No, you need a lot more than that.

502

00:30:37,827 --> 00:30:40,867

John: Yeah, much like me, you may

probably have come across a bunch of

503

00:30:40,867 --> 00:30:45,287

people who've done TED more likely TEDx

talks, really, rather than TED talks.

504

00:30:45,287 --> 00:30:48,537

TED talks are very hard to get

into, but TEDx is somewhat easier.

505

00:30:49,087 --> 00:30:53,347

Many people can access those,

even as not being professional

506

00:30:53,347 --> 00:30:57,087

speakers, or not necessarily having

a book, or anything like that.

507

00:30:57,087 --> 00:31:00,957

If you know the right people, or you get

in the right circle, or you know how to

508

00:31:00,957 --> 00:31:03,217

access that, you can get on that stage.

509

00:31:03,477 --> 00:31:07,517

But I know a lot of TEDx speakers and

I know TEDx coaches as well, people

510

00:31:07,517 --> 00:31:10,757

who coach people specifically for

being able to go and deliver those.

511

00:31:10,807 --> 00:31:14,987

and what they will always say is it's

not something you should do without

512

00:31:14,987 --> 00:31:16,327

being prepared to go and do it.

513

00:31:16,337 --> 00:31:20,667

It's not going to benefit you and your

business if you get up on stage and

514

00:31:20,667 --> 00:31:27,247

a TEDx, which is going to be recorded

and broadcast and available globally

515

00:31:27,277 --> 00:31:30,197

on YouTube and on the TED website.

516

00:31:30,602 --> 00:31:35,902

It's not going to benefit you if you get

up there and you deliver a flop of a talk

517

00:31:36,068 --> 00:31:37,558

Angie: it will make or break you.

518

00:31:37,558 --> 00:31:41,538

If you are, If You are able to

get onto some bigger stages.

519

00:31:42,413 --> 00:31:45,253

I don't know though, I'm actually

questioning that as I say it.

520

00:31:45,613 --> 00:31:49,073

I don't really know if it's A

belief of the size of the stage.

521

00:31:49,413 --> 00:31:52,203

Your reputation starts when you start.

522

00:31:52,723 --> 00:31:57,843

So I think you can flop in the very

beginning, although at that stage

523

00:31:57,853 --> 00:32:00,193

itself I think has, is more forgiving.

524

00:32:00,203 --> 00:32:05,383

It is more forgiving than being,

broadcast globally, from a TED talk.

525

00:32:06,142 --> 00:32:07,882

John: A big public flop is probably not a

526

00:32:08,173 --> 00:32:09,743

Angie: No, it's definitely

527

00:32:09,952 --> 00:32:13,782

John: You know probably build up to that

really and that's really what i'm saying

528

00:32:13,782 --> 00:32:17,152

is I don't just think it's only the high

level or the big stages that are worth

529

00:32:17,152 --> 00:32:21,392

going for And we often say with even with

things like being a podcast guest which

530

00:32:21,392 --> 00:32:26,577

is a form of Professional speaking really

in a sense You may not always get in front

531

00:32:26,607 --> 00:32:29,887

of hundreds and thousands of people and

think That's what makes it worthwhile.

532

00:32:30,117 --> 00:32:34,387

If you're getting in front of the right

audiences You don't need it to be hundreds

533

00:32:34,387 --> 00:32:37,827

and thousands of people You just need

it to be the right people And it's the

534

00:32:37,827 --> 00:32:40,847

same with the stages that you get on

as well You just need them to be the

535

00:32:40,847 --> 00:32:44,887

right stages with the right audiences

Which is why i'm often very skeptical

536

00:32:44,887 --> 00:32:50,557

of these places where they want speakers

to pay to be on stage And I think for

537

00:32:50,557 --> 00:32:54,122

the most part those are probably Those

are scams, maybe not all of them.

538

00:32:54,122 --> 00:32:55,682

That might be somewhat unfair.

539

00:32:56,452 --> 00:33:00,512

There are some that are legit, but

you need to know what, if you're

540

00:33:00,512 --> 00:33:04,372

going to pay to be on a stage, what

are you going to get out of it?

541

00:33:04,672 --> 00:33:07,472

Is it going to be, is it

going to be a random audience?

542

00:33:07,682 --> 00:33:10,812

Or is it going to be an audience

full of people and maybe even

543

00:33:10,812 --> 00:33:14,282

professional connections that I could

super benefit you and give you those

544

00:33:14,282 --> 00:33:16,552

opportunities to get more of that?

545

00:33:16,572 --> 00:33:20,582

Now, is it actually an investment

in yourself or is it just kind of

546

00:33:20,582 --> 00:33:22,702

a scam and those are out there.

547

00:33:22,702 --> 00:33:23,152

So you have to

548

00:33:23,252 --> 00:33:24,542

Angie: You do have to be careful.

549

00:33:24,542 --> 00:33:24,862

You do.

550

00:33:24,962 --> 00:33:27,052

I actually, just the other

day, this is so funny.

551

00:33:27,322 --> 00:33:31,202

I actually had somebody reach out to

me on LinkedIn and they were like,

552

00:33:31,202 --> 00:33:32,922

Hey, would you like to be part of this?

553

00:33:32,922 --> 00:33:34,282

Speaking opportunity?

554

00:33:34,622 --> 00:33:35,412

The name of it.

555

00:33:35,412 --> 00:33:36,252

Blah, blah, blah.

556

00:33:36,272 --> 00:33:38,802

Summit 2025.

557

00:33:39,517 --> 00:33:41,277

And I was like please get on our account.

558

00:33:41,287 --> 00:33:43,007

I said, all right, let me

hear what they have to say.

559

00:33:43,007 --> 00:33:45,027

And it was just really more of curiosity.

560

00:33:45,447 --> 00:33:47,177

And it was just a 15 minute call.

561

00:33:47,207 --> 00:33:51,407

And I was like the person who I was

speaking to had the worst internet.

562

00:33:51,857 --> 00:33:52,337

They weren't.

563

00:33:52,367 --> 00:33:53,147

And I got a date.

564

00:33:53,157 --> 00:33:53,927

She's Oh, I'm sorry.

565

00:33:53,927 --> 00:33:54,977

I have really bad internet.

566

00:33:54,977 --> 00:34:00,287

And I'm like, okay, but you're talking to

me about getting up and doing this talk.

567

00:34:00,347 --> 00:34:03,387

and there was no question

about what do you do, angie?

568

00:34:03,837 --> 00:34:05,867

And I said to her at the end,

I go, so what's the cost?

569

00:34:05,867 --> 00:34:10,137

And she's it's 995 if you

want to do it in person.

570

00:34:10,387 --> 00:34:14,016

And it's 795 if you

want to do it virtually.

571

00:34:14,016 --> 00:34:17,127

And I was like, No, thank you.

572

00:34:17,137 --> 00:34:21,107

But it was just very so

unprofessional to me.

573

00:34:21,107 --> 00:34:24,847

This was just somebody who was like, Hey,

let me reach out to somebody on LinkedIn

574

00:34:24,847 --> 00:34:29,257

who calls himself a coach or, and, or

a speaker and see if I can entice them.

575

00:34:29,257 --> 00:34:33,667

And if I get enough people, I'm making

money, I'm putting together a little

576

00:34:33,667 --> 00:34:36,456

mini webinar and calling it this summit.

577

00:34:36,607 --> 00:34:44,737

To your point, John, there definitely are

legit, very legit ways, but if you're not

578

00:34:44,746 --> 00:34:46,777

seasoned, you're not going to know that.

579

00:34:46,786 --> 00:34:51,157

If you're not trained to kind of have

a little bit of a keen eye, you're

580

00:34:51,157 --> 00:34:52,467

not really, going to know that.

581

00:34:54,911 --> 00:34:58,182

John: I don't see it now, but maybe

because maybe it's still out there,

582

00:34:58,182 --> 00:35:01,042

but there's the, these things where

basically they tell you won an award

583

00:35:01,092 --> 00:35:02,942

and they want to come and present

you with your award and have you

584

00:35:03,057 --> 00:35:03,767

Angie: I'm sorry.

585

00:35:03,832 --> 00:35:04,382

John: stuff like that.

586

00:35:04,902 --> 00:35:09,182

And I was like, pardon my

language, not really but what

587

00:35:09,192 --> 00:35:10,452

the fuck have I won an award for?

588

00:35:10,957 --> 00:35:15,917

And so one time, one time, one time I

followed up with this again, thinking

589

00:35:15,917 --> 00:35:17,627

this sounds like complete bullshit.

590

00:35:17,977 --> 00:35:20,007

And undoubtedly it was

similar kind of thing to you.

591

00:35:20,007 --> 00:35:20,867

The internet wasn't great.

592

00:35:20,867 --> 00:35:23,667

I could hear a fan going

in the room as well.

593

00:35:23,667 --> 00:35:26,547

It sounded wherever they are, they

can't even afford air conditioning.

594

00:35:26,777 --> 00:35:28,517

It was all very dodgy.

595

00:35:28,827 --> 00:35:33,337

And and it was just like all the red

flags were there, but sometimes Our ego

596

00:35:33,337 --> 00:35:35,117

lets us think that they really want us.

597

00:35:35,347 --> 00:35:36,547

Somebody really wants me to speak.

598

00:35:36,547 --> 00:35:39,687

Somebody would want to give me

a reward And our ego flashes up.

599

00:35:39,687 --> 00:35:41,597

And then the red flags get ignored.

600

00:35:41,607 --> 00:35:43,587

I think maybe kind of where that.

601

00:35:43,837 --> 00:35:48,037

and then you've handed over your money

and they never seen or heard from again.

602

00:35:48,237 --> 00:35:49,307

And I tell you with

these people, I was like.

603

00:35:49,857 --> 00:35:52,417

All right, do you have a website I can

look at I can find out a little bit more

604

00:35:52,417 --> 00:35:54,217

about that No, we don't have a website.

605

00:35:54,237 --> 00:35:55,367

It's private invitation.

606

00:35:55,367 --> 00:35:56,977

Only you don't have a website.

607

00:35:57,037 --> 00:35:58,357

You don't have a web presence.

608

00:35:58,357 --> 00:35:58,807

You don't have

609

00:35:58,932 --> 00:35:59,362

Angie: Yeah.

610

00:35:59,757 --> 00:35:59,997

John: No.

611

00:35:59,997 --> 00:36:04,057

No, this is private this is invitation

only Yeah, this is bullshit.

612

00:36:04,067 --> 00:36:05,707

Bye it was like that

613

00:36:05,743 --> 00:36:05,953

Angie: that.

614

00:36:05,963 --> 00:36:06,323

Actually.

615

00:36:06,323 --> 00:36:10,433

How I ended the call with this person was

listen, can you send me an email with all

616

00:36:10,433 --> 00:36:12,293

the pertinent information, your website?

617

00:36:12,293 --> 00:36:13,763

I said, cause I've never heard of you.

618

00:36:14,033 --> 00:36:17,693

I did look them up before

there was nothing talking

619

00:36:17,693 --> 00:36:19,543

about this bloppy blossom it.

620

00:36:19,833 --> 00:36:24,253

So this is somebody who is literally just

going, I just want to take your money.

621

00:36:24,263 --> 00:36:26,743

You're seven 95 or you're nine 95 and.

622

00:36:27,123 --> 00:36:28,503

You will not ever see us.

623

00:36:28,503 --> 00:36:31,553

And I asked how many people,

Oh, it'll be, two rooms.

624

00:36:31,553 --> 00:36:34,763

And it was just so point that I'm

making, I can go on and on about

625

00:36:34,763 --> 00:36:38,683

this conversation, but literally

is you definitely need to have

626

00:36:38,693 --> 00:36:42,013

some kind of training and this.

627

00:36:42,053 --> 00:36:47,893

And I would say that because coaching is

so different in this way, Then speaking

628

00:36:47,913 --> 00:36:49,483

or speaking is so different in this way.

629

00:36:49,723 --> 00:36:55,313

You really do need more, you do, you

definitely need some guidance here.

630

00:36:55,833 --> 00:37:01,043

I would say, it was much easier, even,

in hindsight, it was much easier to

631

00:37:01,043 --> 00:37:06,103

get a coaching practice off the ground

than it was for me to get my speaking,

632

00:37:06,123 --> 00:37:10,923

that speaking piece up off the ground,

knowing what I knew, I was already

633

00:37:10,933 --> 00:37:13,173

seasoned, trainer, coach, all the things.

634

00:37:13,568 --> 00:37:17,468

So I would definitely advise it

even If you're not giving John

635

00:37:17,468 --> 00:37:20,228

a call because I'm going to plug

John all day because he's awesome.

636

00:37:20,498 --> 00:37:24,918

I was getting some advice from him

this morning myself, but somebody to

637

00:37:24,918 --> 00:37:26,948

help guide you through this process.

638

00:37:26,948 --> 00:37:29,128

And there's tons of companies out there.

639

00:37:29,128 --> 00:37:32,388

If you Googled it, all these

companies are going to pop up.

640

00:37:32,708 --> 00:37:34,588

I'm going to say, come to the real deal.

641

00:37:34,618 --> 00:37:35,788

Talk to Johnny Old Ball here.

642

00:37:35,948 --> 00:37:36,648

He's awesome.

643

00:37:37,327 --> 00:37:38,747

John: I say, look, I'll say this as well.

644

00:37:38,817 --> 00:37:41,417

If you think, Oh, is that

something that John does?

645

00:37:41,417 --> 00:37:42,727

Yeah, he absolutely does.

646

00:37:42,727 --> 00:37:43,067

I do.

647

00:37:43,407 --> 00:37:46,787

And this is the perfect time maybe to

check out my other podcast, which has

648

00:37:46,787 --> 00:37:50,267

been running somewhat longer than this

one, which is called Present Influence.

649

00:37:50,287 --> 00:37:51,847

And this is what I talk about there.

650

00:37:51,847 --> 00:37:54,027

I talk about professional speaking.

651

00:37:54,127 --> 00:37:58,647

I talk about getting up on stage to talk

about putting your thoughts together, how

652

00:37:58,647 --> 00:38:00,377

to present, how to be a great speaker.

653

00:38:00,377 --> 00:38:00,707

Bye.

654

00:38:00,867 --> 00:38:01,607

That's all on there.

655

00:38:01,627 --> 00:38:04,837

So come and check, come and join

me there and bring guests onto

656

00:38:04,837 --> 00:38:05,967

that show regularly as well.

657

00:38:05,967 --> 00:38:08,977

So it's not just me, you get a

wealth of experts there as well.

658

00:38:09,247 --> 00:38:10,657

And I'm very selective

659

00:38:10,883 --> 00:38:12,993

Angie: He's very snooty

about who he selects.

660

00:38:12,993 --> 00:38:15,443

I'm just saying, but

that's a good thing, right?

661

00:38:15,453 --> 00:38:16,343

This is a good thing.

662

00:38:16,343 --> 00:38:20,553

We don't want, this is not just a

hodgepodge of people to give you

663

00:38:20,553 --> 00:38:23,173

information on things that are

not pertinent to why you're there.

664

00:38:23,183 --> 00:38:25,303

So it's definitely a great

665

00:38:25,397 --> 00:38:25,817

John: Yeah

666

00:38:26,317 --> 00:38:29,317

As we wrap things up for today I think

it's very clear from everything we

667

00:38:29,317 --> 00:38:32,867

talked about that if you have your

own coaching business Even if that's

668

00:38:33,157 --> 00:38:37,357

something you want to do or certainly

if you want to be a contender a known

669

00:38:37,407 --> 00:38:42,227

coach you have to be getting out there

and speaking and that might start

670

00:38:42,267 --> 00:38:46,087

with some very simple stages It might

start at a local toastmasters club.

671

00:38:46,087 --> 00:38:49,767

It could start anywhere but you have

to start getting some stage time and

672

00:38:49,767 --> 00:38:53,687

getting out there speaking and You

If you have your own stuff, if you

673

00:38:53,747 --> 00:38:58,647

have your own IP, then you should

be able to put some stuff together.

674

00:38:58,727 --> 00:39:00,567

this is what Angie's

working on at the moment.

675

00:39:00,697 --> 00:39:04,687

Put your stuff together to be

able to go out there and deliver

676

00:39:04,717 --> 00:39:06,867

your IP from the stage as well.

677

00:39:06,887 --> 00:39:10,787

To be able to do that with media and

other places that start to get you

678

00:39:10,917 --> 00:39:12,867

known for who you are and what you do.

679

00:39:13,257 --> 00:39:14,857

Absolutely a great strategy.

680

00:39:14,967 --> 00:39:15,447

Highly

681

00:39:15,748 --> 00:39:18,378

Angie: Absolutely love that great episode.

682

00:39:18,438 --> 00:39:20,488

So what are you gonna do.

683

00:39:22,557 --> 00:39:24,847

John: Go and take some action is

what we'd invite you to do and

684

00:39:24,847 --> 00:39:26,837

let us know your thoughts as Well,

tell us what you're going to do.

685

00:39:26,847 --> 00:39:29,447

You can leave us a voicemail go to www.

686

00:39:29,817 --> 00:39:30,187

speakpipe.

687

00:39:30,727 --> 00:39:33,777

com forward slash the coaching clinic

podcast and leave us a voicemail

688

00:39:33,807 --> 00:39:37,467

absolutely free to do and we'd love to

hear from you And what are your thoughts

689

00:39:37,467 --> 00:39:40,887

or share with us on any of the social

media postings that you might see from us

690

00:39:40,917 --> 00:39:45,517

come and connect With us on linkedin and

if you are interested in coaching and you

691

00:39:45,517 --> 00:39:49,637

think i'd like to work with Angie Or i'd

like to maybe work with John Get in touch.

692

00:39:49,637 --> 00:39:52,667

We would love to hear from you, but

that's pretty much it from this week.

693

00:39:52,667 --> 00:39:54,917

Next week, we're going to

be talking about podcasts.

694

00:39:55,807 --> 00:39:56,797

So don't miss that.

695

00:39:57,138 --> 00:39:58,078

Angie: absolutely.

696

00:39:58,338 --> 00:39:59,178

Bye for now