THE BEST DIVORCE POSSIBLE WITH GABRIELLE HARTLEY, MEDIATOR AND AUTHOR - EPISODE 81

In this episode of the Her Empowered Divorce Expert Series podcast, Beverly Price interviews Gabrielle Hartley, Esq. about what is needed to have the Best Divorce Possible and about her new book, The Secret to Getting Along.

Key Interview Questions that Beverly Asked Gabrielle:

1.    You wrote a book entitled Your power to have the best divorce possible--Author of “The Secret to Getting Along and Why It's Easier than You Think” Here’s a link to purchase this incredible book. https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Getting-Along-Easier-Think/dp/172825891X

2.    What inspired you to write the book?

Your power to have the best divorce possible-

2.   Once a person has made the decision to reach out to a family lawyer and has scheduled their initial consultation with the lawyer, what should they do to ensure they get the most out of their consultation?

3.   What tips do you have for women to help maintain their sanity during what can seem a never ending and frustrating process?

4.   Why is taking of your emotional health during a divorce so important?

5.   What is the best way to make sure that you continue to take care of yourself during the divorce process

6.What do you mean by the magic of dancing with conflict How can I keep my divorce from spinning out of control what if I have to go to court Is a private divorce possible

7.What 3 actionable takeaways can you give women that they can do to enhance their journey from beginning to end and recovery from the divorce process

You have agency and accountability and using them wisely is your best source of power slowest is fastest (hard to remember in this age of immediacy) Ask hard questions (of yourself) --knowing your why will set you free

a.   Assemble your team of professionals to help you- lawyer, coach/therapist, CPA, financial planner, valuation experts

b.   Practice self-care

c.   Take baby steps

ABOUT Gabrielle Hartley Esq.:

Gabrielle Hartley is a divorce attorney and nationally recognized online mediator. She co chair of the American Bar Association Mediation Committee and former New York State Court Attorney. She is expert at resolving entrenched conflict and can be heard across media outlets sharing her wisdom and insights.

Gabrielle has authored two books including Better Apart, The Radically Positive Way to Separate and The Secret to Getting Along which comes out next week. Check out her TEDx on this same topic on youtube.

CONNECT WITH Gabrielle –

Website: https://gabriellehartley.com/

Gabrielle’s Blog - voted #1 in New York! https://gabriellehartley.com/better-apart-blog/

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gabriellehartleyesq/

Linked In https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielle-hartley-esq-0b43139/

https://www.instagram.com/gabriellehartleyesq/

To Purchase her book: The Secret to Getting Along https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Getting-Along-Easier-Think/dp/172825891X

More links for sharing: https://gabriellehartley.com/moreinfo/

https://gabriellehartley.com/thesecrettogettingalong/

CONNECT WITH PODCAST HOST AND DIVORCE AND EMPOWERMENT COACH, BEVERLY PRICE:

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About Host, Beverly Price:

 Beverly Price, certified Divorce and Empowerment coach, combines divorce and empowerment coaching to provide education, support, and insight to guide women along the entire divorce process, and to conquer its emotional, technical, financial and logistical challenges.

Her coaching stresses self-awareness, conflict resolution, communication skills, organization, and clarity. She provides one-on-one custom designed coaching to help women through the ups and downs and grow from self-doubt to self-love quicker, with less pain, more knowledge than she did.

Other episodes of the Her Empowered Divorce podcast and the Divorce Expert Series, information about Beverly’s coaching, blogs and more can be found at https://www.herempowereddivorce.com

Sign up for a free consultation with Beverly to find out there is someone who can educate, advocate and guide you through all phases of divorce so you can reach an empowered and happy new life! Click on the link https://Beverly-Price.as.me/Consultation

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Hi, beautiful. I'm so glad you're here with me today. I am really excited. I have a wonderful expert to share with you her story and her advice to help you on your separation and divorce journey. So whether you are a soon to be separated, separated, divorcing or divorced woman, this podcast was created just for you. My guest today is

to talk to us about how your power to have the best divorce possible is critical. And I would also like to tell you that Gabrielle, not only in addition to be a top-notch mediator, is an author of two books that you'll hear about in a little while. Hi Gabrielle, thank you so much for being my guest today. It's great to have you here.

Hi Beverly, it's nice to be here with you. Thank you so much for having me.

Can you share with our audience a little bit about yourself, and your business and your books?

Absolutely. So I am Gabrielle Hartley. I grew up in New York City. I have parents who, like my back story is I have parents who divorced when I was nine and my brother was six. And they actually had a really good divorce, even though it was the early 80s and nobody had good divorces back then. My parents really did it right. And they were almost.

They were a little braggy about it, like, you know, oh, we have such a good divorce. And I was always like, oh, it's not that good. You know, like nothing's perfect from the kid's perspective, right? And, you know, fast forward my life. I went to law school. I got this job working for the top New York state judge resolving high conflict divorces. And that's when I started to realize how much I loved doing complex settlement conferences. And that's eventually how I became

Right.

someone who just does mediation, writes books about mediation and settlement conferences for people who are in court, because I saw how fraught the process was. I really was quite shocked to see that even in, you know, the year 2000, you know, early 2000s, and it's still this way today, divorce is quite contentious most of the time. And...

After I left working for the judge and I opened my own practice, it occurred to me, you know, seeing one person after another sitting across from me at my table in such a state of despair, sometimes, you know, you might be dismissing someone who, maybe they're not clinically a narcissist, but it feels like they're a narcissist, maybe they're just, you see things so differently from each other.

So I saw one person after another, they would come into my office, now I work exclusively online, but when I had a physical office, they'd be sitting across from me in varying stages of anger and despair on a continuum, from hot mess to I can't wait to be done. And it occurred to me that people really didn't have enough support. And remember, this is before the world where there weren't too many people like you, Beverly, who are doing divorce coaching. I know you're a very experienced divorce coach. Um, there's a lot of divorce coaches that come and go. They have a divorce and then they become divorce coaches. But, um, you know, people like you who stand the test of time with divorce coaching, that that's, that's something that, you know, is really great for me to see. Cause I'm sure you have very deep skills in that array. Anyway, I'm getting off topic because I want to do, I, that's my special skill.

That's okay. We love anywhere we could go.

Yeah, right. So, but basically I wanted to create resources for people who maybe couldn't even afford to get a divorce coach or who, you know, didn't believe in therapy or just wanted to sit back and have some insight. And so my first book, which is called Better Apart, the radically positive divorce, was designed to be sort of a pocket helper for you if you're getting divorced to reframe using yoga and.

meditation exercises and nuts and bolts and how to bring all that for you to get through using self-respect and a power of interagency to move through and beyond the divorce and to reach peace. And then I wrote a second book, then I did a TED talk about the secret to getting along and why it's easier than you think because I wanted to break down what I as a mediator and as a settlement conference specialist, what I do

in the room and how we can all do it in our real lives. Right. And Beverly, I'm not suggesting that it's easy because it's not easy, even though I legitimately like I wrote the book, right. But it's still, it's hard to implement these things. But even the knowing, you know, you know, is knowing you can do it gives you the empowerment, the agency, the ability to take a step back, to take pause.

Yeah.

you know, my New York accent comes out there, right? Pause. And to be able to change how you're acting so that you can really powerfully change the dynamic.

Yeah, I'm really blessed with

I've had multiple divorces, but with the divorce with my children's father, it was very civil. It was very much a business-like co-parenting that was very positive. That's not to say divorce didn't harm my children, but we had people that came up to us, my ex and I saying, why did you get divorced? You get along so well. And I said, well, we just can't live together. So it is possible.

And you know what, like that whole narrative of, the narrative that your divorce is harming your children, I mean, that's part of why I started this whole, I call it the positive divorce movement, because your divorce, when done well, and not perfectly, nothing's perfect, but when done well, you can pave the way to actually what would be a better future for you and for your kids than they would have had.

Yes.

had you stayed married. And don't kid yourselves to believe that like everyone else, all your neighbors are so happy just because they're married. Like everyone has trauma, everyone has heartache. It's just that you really can move through your divorce in a way that is gonna cause less harm and let you feel like you have more ability in your relationship. And what I love about it to what you were saying is no matter where you are in the process,

Yes.

pre-divorce, in the middle of divorce, at the end of divorce, or, you know, after the fact, you can always dial things back. You could always go into a settlement conference. You can always, it doesn't mean you're going to go in without a lawyer or without somebody helping you to get through it, but you can reach out to, but be careful who you go to, right? You want to go to somebody who nearly understands how things work.

Right.

Because when I worked for the judge, I saw lots of bad, mediated divorce agreements. And so you have to be careful of that.

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. To go back to a little bit of the intro, what do you mean by the magic of dancing with conflict?

Yeah, so conflict is really a dance. Conflict is, you know, it's like the cha cha, right? Two steps forward, two steps back. I don't really know the cha cha, but you know what I mean? It's, there's a time to lean in, there's a time to pull back, there's a time to pause, there's a time to reconsider other people's perspectives, there's a time to ask yourself how you're contributing

to the conflict and most importantly, you wanna do all of these dance steps as it were, so that you can get to the root of what it is you're fighting about. We fight over what we want, we resolve over what we need. And so it's a dance to arrive at the need. We fight over what we want.

I like that. Can you say that one more time? I love that. Can you say that?

We resolve over what we need. But most of the time we're so busy arguing.

You can as long as you quote me, absolutely. Because most of the time we're so busy.

Yeah.

fighting about the thing, whatever it is that we want, that we often even lose sight of why we're arguing in the first place. You have to ask yourself, how would my life be different if I get what I want so badly? And then ask yourself if there's another way to get that same feeling that you're imagining you're gonna have by getting the thing you want. And that's what I, I work really hard.

Right.

in mediation, you know, if you're listening to this, you might not be the person who needs the help, it might be your spouse. So I really, I lean in with the person who's having a hard time getting there. And that's really the magic, right? Like the magic is getting that person who you cannot move to move. That makes sense?

Yes.

And I work a lot with my clients on communication skills and self-awareness. And that really makes a big difference. Sometimes, or many times, I find that underneath the conflict, underneath the anger and resentment is fear. And it's just like you said, fear of not getting something I want or fear of losing something that I have. So I think that's, you know, really on target.

Exactly.

Let's see, the next question, how can I keep my divorce from spinning out of control? This is a good one.

So, you know, a step back is always the best way forward. Don't let yourself get sucked up in the argument. Don't let yourself get amped up by the fight, by the excitement of being right, by the excitement of having your day in court and being heard. That is, court is not solving problems, except the problem of if you have somebody who will not engage, you have to go in. If you have someone...

Okay.

who won't disclose assets or who you need to protect a kid, you might need to go in. But, you know, having worked for a judge, and I don't know, maybe you've had other court attorneys on your podcast, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that knowing something and proving something are two different things. And you may do better in mediation than in court. Now,

Yes.

I will say for anybody who's listening and thinking like, oh, well, I'll just go to mediation. I don't want to spend $50,000 on, I mean, I'm going to do it really cheaply. If you have any assets to protect, do not be what we called in the olden days, penny wise and pound foolish, because you need to have an advocate helping you through mediation oftentimes. It's-

still going to be better for your family, it's still going to be cheaper, it is definitely going to be less stressful, and you're not going to have the issue of the spouse who's not disclosing being worried that they're now making statements on the record. A, mediation is a private divorce.

Great. Absolutely. So do you think my ex and I can truly become better apart?

I mean, I don't know. I don't know you and your ex. You can always feel better. You can always be better apart by adjusting how you respond to how he acts. Now, when you ask the question, can you and your ex be better apart together? Maybe, maybe not, but can you feel better being apart? Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. Do you see much of the time in your mediations where people aren't getting along?

Yes, of course.

What percentage would you say, give me a rough guess?

of the number of cases you've mediated, what percentage of those do you see are people not getting along? Is it high? Is it low? Is it frequent?

Yeah.

You mean, are they getting divorced because they're fighting too much?

No, just that the process itself

Oh, the mediation process is typically quite smooth. You know, I have a very carefully curated, selective process. You have to be screened in to work with me. And the people who hire me tend to be fairly functional. At least one of them is functional enough to keep the escalation at bay for the other person.

Right.

I do a lot of caucusing, meaning that you're not in the same room having hard conversations where you can't get anywhere. So my job is to help you to be your best selves in the room to move your case forward. So I can't say like, maybe for your listeners, you're thinking, well, I'm definitely not going to screen in because we don't get along. Don't assume you can't mediate just because you can't do it on your own. Right? You have, that's what I said in the beginning. You need to really skilled.

Yes. That's a, that's a big point. I think.

A lot of women that I run into in my coaching business, because I start at the very beginning and listen to them and help direct them and refer them to experts that I've vetted, a lot of them think you can't do mediation if there's high conflict.

Right, that's totally not true. In fact, mediation, I actually think, is better than court, because high conflict with a high conflict person is just going to create even more conflict. But you need a mediator who can balance the energy in the room. You need a mediator, you just don't go with the lowest hanging fruit, that's all, because you're taken advantage of in your relationship, and you go to a mediator who's maybe

Okay.

really conflict diverse, social worker, hasn't worked in courts ever, doesn't really understand how things amp up, you're gonna wind up getting taken advantage of in mediation. So you need a mediator who both can help balance the room, hold a neutral space, and also who understands nuance of an agreement. For instance, agreements to agree are not enforceable.

For instance, agreements that are not complete are going to likely wind you up in court later on because you left important things off the table.

Gotcha, wow. There's just so much to digest and learn about the differences between mediation, settlement, and high conflict. I mean, I think that's...

So I always ask my guests, this is my favorite part, what three tips would you offer women as they're thinking about their divorce journey, as they're considering mediation or litigation? What do you think?

Number one, before you make any proclamations to anybody, make sure you have all your financial information. Make sure you've gathered as much as you can. It can be very hard to track down paperwork after the fact. Make sure that you think through what you need, what you want. Take a step back. It's always the best way forward.

Slowest is fastest. You want to not be impulsive and reactive. You want to be proactive and responsive.

And remember, you can get along better. That doesn't mean you're gonna have a perfect relationship, but the secrets of getting along, here, I'm gonna do some shameless, right? Secrets of getting along. It can't, I don't know how to center it, here we go. There are secrets to helping your relationship to move along in a better way that you can actually empower yourself to have the best outcome possible through and beyond your divorce, you can truly become better.

That's such a beautiful thing. So Gabrielle, how can our listeners find you?

you can just go to gabriellhartley.com. Look at that homepage. I've got lots of resources, lots of services. I am available to mediate across the country. I'm available for settlement conferences. I'm a licensed attorney in New York and Massachusetts. And I do all kinds of mediation, mostly everything involving family, family disputes and divorce and separation. So gabriellhartley.com is really the easiest way, you can find me on social media at Gabrielle Hartley ESQ as well, or over on LinkedIn, just using my name.

Beautiful.

I can offer to your listeners access, a one-time access to the Secrets of Getting Along webinar, which is going to be happening in June if they pre-order a copy of the book. There's going to be a live webinar that I believe they will have access to ask questions during the webinar in a chat. So yeah, I just wanted to put that out there.

Oh, wonderful.

Oh, that's fantastic. Do you have anything else you'd like to add?

Oh, just to let you all know that you can get through your divorce, you can have, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It is not going to be easy, but if you can create within yourself a way to have enough patience to have the hard conversations, to get yourself in the best position possible, you will be in a better place after you are divorced than you are today.

Gabrielle, thank you so much for being my guest today. This has been just wonderful information for me and my guests. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Beverly.

All of Gabrielle's information will be available in the show notes along with mine, and you can find them at herempoweredivorce.com on the podcast page or wherever you listen to podcasts. Plus, we have a video version on YouTube. In any case, please subscribe and leave us a review. If you have ideas for future episodes, please submit them via the contact page on my website. I'll love to hear from you.

for being with Gabriella and myself on this episode of Her Empowered Divorce. Join me for our next episode where I'll be diving deeper into what other expert professionals can share to help you on your journey. Thank you and take care.