In this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash welcomes back the multi-talented Brian Hester, an artist, inventor and, now, author. Brian shares updates on his latest artistic endeavors, collaborations with Jam Up Apparel and MothBear and his exciting new book, "She Talks to Fish." The conversation covers Brian's journey from the easel to industrial design, including his innovative use of tactile materials and magnets in his projects.

Brian discusses his partnership with Jam Up Apparel, highlighting how his unique fish skin designs have been successfully translated into stylish and functional hoodies. He also delves into his collaboration with MothBear, where his inventive magnetic fly box and other gear have been developed to enhance the fly fishing experience.

The episode takes a deeper dive into Brian's novel, "She Talks to Fish," which tells the inspiring story of Maya Jones, a young African American woman breaking barriers in the fly fishing world. Brian explains the genesis of the project, the extensive research and collaboration with his co-author cousin and the challenges of writing from a perspective different from his own. He also shares the exciting news of actress Angie Harmon's endorsement and involvement in the potential film adaptation of the book.

Listeners will find this episode packed with creativity, innovation and inspiration, as Brian Hester's passion for art, invention and storytelling shines through.

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Helpful Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction

03:52 Innovative Apparel for Anglers

07:49 Tinkering and Inventing

16:11 The Genesis of "She Talks to Fish"

24:49 Writing with Authenticity

31:02 The Writing Process Unveiled

35:19 From Script to Screen

38:54 Embracing Risk and Opportunity

40:24 Book Release and Events

Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly.

Intro: On this episode, artist, inventor, and now author Brian Hester returns to the podcast.

Intro: Brian updates us on his work at the easel, his collaborations with Jam Up and

Intro: Mothbear, and his latest project, She Talks to Fish.

Intro: I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview,

Intro: just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast,

Intro: please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating or review in

Intro: the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

Intro: And a shout out to our sponsor, Trout Routes.

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Intro: Now, on to our interview.

Marvin: Well, Brian, welcome back to the Articulate Fly.

Brian: Thank you, Marvin, for having me. I appreciate it.

Marvin: Yeah, man, I'm looking forward to the conversation. You know, it's kind of funny.

Marvin: I looked at the archives, and I was surprised to see that you were on season

Marvin: one, episode 19, which has been about five and a half years ago.

Marvin: And, you know, not like we haven't seen each other a bunch kind of in that intervening time.

Marvin: But, you know, for our listeners, you know, you're in perpetual motion.

Marvin: I was kind of curious, you know, I think back then, you know,

Marvin: you were, you know, putting artwork in Boone and Banner Elk and places like that.

Marvin: But I was kind of curious, you know, you know, what's your artist journey been

Marvin: like, you know, over the last few years in terms of, you know,

Marvin: any new themes, materials, influences, any good stuff like that?

Brian: Well, it's really cool. I've still been behind the easel.

Brian: And that part of my background and that part of my charge is never going to leave me.

Brian: But I did actually set the paintbrushes down for a little bit while I was tinkering

Brian: with a few other really, really cool things.

Brian: And as you know, maybe some of the listeners know that I do have a visual arts background.

Brian: I am a painter. You know, the background actually started drawing,

Brian: illustrating, painting.

Brian: And I even dabbled a little bit in industrial design stuff coming out of college.

Brian: It's just been in the back of my mind. So some really, really cool things were materializing.

Brian: I was doing a lot of stuff with tactile stuff, building, doing stuff with magnets,

Brian: trying to help myself out.

Brian: All of this stuff has a common thread of fly fishing that I play with from the

Brian: stuff that I invent and my paintings,

Brian: which are still constant, and a book that I just wrote.

Brian: And also some apparel that I've just been able to put out. So it's been a lot of fun.

Marvin: Yeah, we're gonna get to all that. I know that one outgrowth of all that is

Marvin: you've got a partnership with JamUp Apparel.

Marvin: And I was kind of curious if you could tell us a little bit about those guys,

Marvin: kind of how you found each other, why you thought it was a good fit for what

Marvin: you're trying to create.

Brian: Because I'm behind the canvas so much, I'm always doing some really,

Brian: like what I think are really innovative kind of new looks to my passion, which is fly fishing.

Brian: I do a lot of stuff with inversion and substitution.

Brian: And it kind of materialized to the point where I was like, man,

Brian: this would be just really, really cool on some hoodies.

Brian: I thought it would be really, really cool on some shorts. I thought it'd be really, really cool.

Brian: I mean, on a golf bag, I thought it would be cool on a bunch of stuff.

Brian: And I was looking for a company that was out there that actually did stuff with fishing.

Brian: And I think it was September of last year, I stumbled across Jam Up Apparel.

Brian: And they're out of Spokane, Washington.

Brian: And they basically brought me in with open arms.

Brian: It was a lot of fun. I reached out with them. I did show them a bunch of my

Brian: designs and my thoughts about its application, what it could be used for.

Brian: And then all of a sudden started tinkering a little bit more with some of the

Brian: fish skin designs that I was doing.

Brian: And then bingo, bingo, we started some really, really cool looking hoodies.

Brian: I've got a couple of brown trout or a brown trout design.

Brian: I've got a brookie design. I've got a couple of rainbow designs on the website.

Brian: Site. So, and again, it's a jam up apparel.

Brian: So if people wanted to go take a look.

Marvin: Yeah, no, and I'll, I'll get all that stuff and drop that stuff in the show notes for you.

Marvin: But, you know, it's interesting because I've seen some of the hoodies and I

Marvin: guess a couple things that I was kind of struck by was one, you know,

Marvin: not only do you have the design, but you also have the texture that's in the fabric.

Brian: Yes. And their fabric is actually a patented fabric that they have.

Brian: SPF 50, these hoodies that they build are fantastic.

Brian: And with the designs of the, like, for example, the rainbow trout skin, it's not loud.

Brian: Loud uh i don't want

Brian: to say loud um it's attention getting and

Brian: it sends a message to anybody you know looking that they're like what what is

Brian: that that oh and then then a conversation comes out of it oh i fly fish i love

Brian: you know fishing uh for rainbow trout brown trout brookies uh anything.

Brian: And I've got a bass design that's on there as well.

Brian: The sleeves are emulative of,

Brian: Those, those fish, it's fantastic. New, new, good looking stuff.

Marvin: Yeah. I think it's neat too that, um, you know, I like the fact that they're two ply, right?

Marvin: So, um, you know, that there's a little bit more substance to them than,

Marvin: you know, a lot of hoodies.

Marvin: I mean, sometimes maybe if it's really, really hot, that doesn't work,

Marvin: but you know, if we're just kind of kicking around, um, I thought that was really good.

Marvin: Cause you know, some of those hoodies kind of look like you were,

Marvin: they were kind of spray painted on you. You know what I mean?

Brian: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. They're sweat-wicking, breathable.

Brian: They're light enough that you don't feel like you're completely going to have

Brian: heat stroke. They are fantastic.

Brian: And I've fished at them already, you know, 10 times. Just, they're awesome. Love them.

Marvin: Yeah, and it's interesting too, right, because you touched on this kind of as

Marvin: we were getting started that, you know, you're also, you know,

Marvin: people know you as kind of, you know, Hester, the art teacher at Myers Park

Marvin: High School, but you're this kind of tinkering inventor, right?

Marvin: And you seem to kind of be in perpetual motion.

Marvin: And, you know, I was kind of curious, you know, have you always been like that,

Marvin: kind of trying to figure out better ways to do things, or is that something

Marvin: you kind of found kind of later on?

Brian: Well it's i my brain is

Brian: firing all the time my brain

Brian: is a thousand miles an hour and i'm always looking

Brian: for that next thing what what is it that's going to be uh special about you

Brian: know the industry uh the fly fishing industry and when i was tinkering this

Brian: this probably started back in And right around 2014,

Brian: 2015, when I was trying to figure out a magnetic system to carry my fly rods

Brian: on my truck and also any other SUV or any other regular car,

Brian: I kind of stumbled onto some really,

Brian: really cool ways to interchange and utilize the magnetic system so that you

Brian: could everything kind of fed on itself.

Brian: And then all of a sudden, that tinkering with the rod carrier kind of materialized

Brian: into new ways to carry my flies on my person.

Brian: I can carry it on my cap, I can carry it on my chest, I can carry it on my ship, I can carry it anywhere.

Brian: And that system also works with everything that you would end up doing with the truck too.

Brian: So, and I found...

Brian: It was about three years ago. I was looking for a company just to hear me out,

Brian: just to see what I've done.

Brian: If I had to sign NDAs, I would. And I really wanted them to see this design.

Brian: And I spoke to a lot of people. I mean, a lot of people.

Brian: And then all of a sudden, I found this company that was brand new.

Brian: And I found them in July. And then we started talking again,

Brian: oddly enough, about August, September timeframe.

Brian: The guy's name is Tyler Wotuski, and he owns Moth Bear.

Brian: And he wants to innovate in the industry.

Brian: He wants to actually be at the front, i.e. he wants to be chased instead of

Brian: trying to chase. He creates boat bags.

Brian: He created a fantastic chest pack system, all utilizing aspects of the magnetic stuff that I had done.

Brian: And then we started working together. He's got an engineering background,

Brian: which made things even more perfect based upon working together.

Brian: Other and that it was like a perfect storm it

Brian: was like it couldn't have been any better by means

Brian: of having my jacked up brain that's always conceptually

Brian: always way out there and he would always reel it back

Brian: in and talk about the engineering component and then i was really pretty good

Brian: about the industrial design aspect where i would end up trying to remove human

Brian: error so that when you bring a product to market or when you're putting a product out there,

Brian: that it's going to be flawless, that it's going to work fantastic.

Brian: And it was just, it's been awesome being able to work with them.

Brian: I've been blessed in terms of, or I've been lucky as well in terms of finding

Brian: really, really good people, honest people that want to do some moving and shaking

Brian: in the fly fishing industry.

Marvin: Got it. And, you know, kind of curious, I mean, there are plenty of,

Marvin: you know, pack and, you know, doodad manufacturers and fly fishing,

Marvin: you know, what is it that sets Mothbear apart?

Marvin: I mean, what's their different approach from like Omqua, Fishpond,

Marvin: Sims, you know, all those guys?

Brian: It's soup to nuts. We actually, we, we build out, we, we physically build the product.

Brian: Um, and, and then we, we, we analyze the product after we've done the design

Brian: work, uh, to make sure that things are appropriated.

Brian: Things are actually where they're supposed to be.

Brian: And so that they're easy access to, uh, anglers left-handed, right-handed.

Brian: Um, and one thing in particular, like I, that I was talking about with the,

Brian: uh, uh, we, we invented a magnetic fly box that, that, that will go on anything, anywhere.

Brian: It it's spectacular. And it's like a anytime box, you can load it and it's deep

Brian: enough to hold, you know, high hackle on, on dries and it's shallow enough to,

Brian: uh, to, to hold like a ton of nips.

Brian: So you can, you can be with one little fly box,

Brian: put that, or three or four of those little fly boxes, put them all over your

Brian: person without carrying a chest pack, carrying all sorts of other stuff around

Brian: where you can, you know, I do a lot of rock hopping when I'm on the river.

Brian: I do a lot of, you know, maneuvering up the river and, uh, I don't like stuff,

Brian: thinking stuff would fall off.

Brian: Moth uh this system is fantastic it works magnificent so i hope uh everybody

Brian: gets a chance to just go look at the magnetic fly box that moth bear has same.

Marvin: Yeah and so just to i would want to kind of back up

Marvin: a little bit though because i want to kind of you know understand like

Marvin: i know you're kind of like um you're like a

Marvin: creative tasmanian devil right yeah yeah

Marvin: brain's always working yeah i would maybe you

Marvin: know maybe a quaalude or two every now and again might not be a bad thing calm

Marvin: it down um but uh i was just kind of curious about like let's i want to kind

Marvin: of think about like the tinkering and the inventing kind of in in kind of the

Marvin: context of your broader kind of creativity right is it just another kind of

Marvin: spoke on the hester wheel

Marvin: or kind of how does it integrate with kind of how you think as a visual artist.

Brian: It is. It's all about, like, if I'm building a composition on campus,

Brian: that's my process within my design, my point of view.

Brian: And point of view has the physical and the metaphysical.

Brian: For example, I can physically see something in its depth of field or its point

Brian: of view, i.e., that I'm thinking about something a certain way,

Brian: its perspective. So, I'm always composing.

Brian: When you're composing, you're still designing.

Brian: The same thing with the tinkering. How does the design look?

Brian: Is the design, you know, is it sexy?

Brian: Does it look great for the consumer out on the shelf? You know,

Brian: how is it presented and how does it look in its final state?

Brian: So I'm always working in that, that, that, that phase, that realm inside that,

Brian: that, I guess that space, so to speak.

Brian: I want things to, to look good.

Brian: So that's what's up.

Marvin: There you go. Well, you know, and if it wasn't enough, you kind of touched on

Marvin: this, um, almost stole a little bit of my thunder. Or, you know,

Marvin: you are, I don't know, within, you know, what, a week, a week or two weeks of

Marvin: dropping your first novel, She Talks to Fish.

Marvin: And, you know, that's kind of pretty crazy from kind of, you know,

Marvin: you got a full-time gig, plus you got all this other stuff going on.

Marvin: But, you know, I was really kind of curious, you know, what's the,

Marvin: what was the genesis of the project?

Brian: That's a great question. The genesis of the project actually started 10 years

Brian: ago when I initiated and built a club at the high school where I teach, Myers Park High School.

Brian: And I wanted to introduce young people to fly fishing.

Brian: And I initially, when I started the program, there were a lot of young young people involved.

Brian: And I thought that this is great. This is just fantastic.

Brian: I'm going to be able to kind of, you know, pay this forward,

Brian: show all these young people,

Brian: this beautiful thing, fly fishing, and introduce this to them so that they can

Brian: enjoy, they can find maybe something in this that I found growing up,

Brian: which was just amazing for me.

Brian: Then the membership kept growing, and it was just young white kids.

Brian: And I was like, well, this fly fishing thing is for everyone.

Brian: It's literally for everyone.

Brian: And I look at fly fishing to be, for me personally, the world's greatest equalizer.

Brian: Because fly fishing doesn't care about anything.

Brian: Doesn't care about your political views, doesn't care about your culture,

Brian: doesn't care about how tall you are, how skinny, gender, gender associations, anything.

Brian: It doesn't care. But what it demands is your attitude and your effort if you

Brian: want to succeed at it, if you want to involve yourself with it.

Brian: And those lessons that I've learned from fly fishing, if I could actually give

Brian: that to the kids, that was the biggest plug.

Brian: Well, fast forward, I started to get a lot of young women involved with fly fishing.

Brian: And then my charge became to get more young women of color fly fishing.

Brian: And then all of a sudden, more young women started holding seats in the organization

Brian: that I had as far as president, vice president, secretary,

Brian: treasurer, and they became more involved.

Brian: And when you start talking about beautiful stuff like this, when young people

Brian: are involved and other young people are like, what are you doing?

Brian: Well, I'm in a fly fishing club. you ought to come try

Brian: it and then they let their guard down a

Brian: little bit and then they come out and try it and then all of a sudden it just

Brian: starts to there's a swelling so to speak um and beautiful things happen from

Brian: that and that's that's the inspiration for you know my my journey in in getting

Brian: getting things started with this uh with the novel yeah.

Marvin: I mean so when did you have the kind of the light bulb moment,

Marvin: hey, I wanna write a novel about this?

Brian: It started as a story. And in my brain, I'm thinking,

Brian: this is a cool story. And because, again, I'm always creating,

Brian: I was like, this is a really, really awesome story.

Brian: I even ran it by my wife, and she's like, this is really an incredibly cool

Brian: story. So I thought, I don't know.

Brian: I just took a shot in the dark. I called my cousin, and she's a screenwriter,

Brian: and she's a three-time author, and she's an English teacher.

Brian: And she took the story and helped me put it in a script form.

Brian: And then I started sending out, sending to different production companies and

Brian: then also some studios to see if I could get some bites on unsolicited scripts.

Brian: And didn't get anything.

Brian: Nothing happened. Nothing happened. And so I just kind of tabled everything

Brian: for, you know, two and a half years, almost three years.

Brian: And then I had this epiphany. I was like, well, this story is so good.

Brian: It's a really solid story. It's like a tree.

Brian: I'm going to go ahead and put the leaves on the tree and then put the ornaments on the tree.

Brian: Um so i just started writing

Brian: so i called my cousin again she said

Brian: absolutely not i'm not doing it

Brian: and then reluctantly i wore down enough

Brian: and then she finally bought in and um and here we are legitimately i think it's

Brian: like four years later it was all the way through covid or at least in the initial

Brian: phases of covid all the way to right now in terms of finishing this beautiful story Yeah.

Marvin: That's pretty neat. And so give us a brief overview of the novel.

Brian: It's about my main character. Her name is Maya Jones.

Brian: She's a young African-American female that grows up in Boone,

Brian: set in the mid to late 80s.

Brian: So if you were a woman fly fishing in the 80s, you were, I mean,

Brian: that was a bit of a rarity. But if you were black and fly fishing in the 80s,

Brian: you're kind of like a unicorn almost.

Brian: So I wanted to authenticate it that way where I was able to be at the front.

Brian: I wanted this to be something that was new and innovative and incredibly creative

Brian: where people could actually go, wow, this is absolutely brand new.

Brian: I've never heard of anything like this. This story is fantastic.

Brian: And Maya Jones actually encounters and defies everything from stereotypes,

Brian: bigotry, defies nature and weather, defies death with immeasurable perseverance.

Brian: Perseverance and um i just felt as though that the story with with all the young

Brian: women that i had in my club um it it was it was it was time to actually say

Brian: okay um you know you know melanin shouldn't be.

Brian: Something to inhibit an opportunity.

Brian: And I want the world to be able to see the beauty of what this young woman,

Brian: my main character, Maya Jones, encounters,

Brian: perseveres through, and then ultimately how they end the book,

Brian: kind of how things culminate. It's just spectacular.

Brian: I don't want to give any more away. I just want people to put their hands on

Brian: the book and give it a read. And it's a true book, Marvin.

Brian: It's a true book about fly fishing.

Brian: Yes, it's a fiction novel, but it's a true book about fly fishing.

Brian: And if you're an angler and you read it, it'll resonate with you.

Brian: And even if you're not an angler, you don't care anything about fly fishing. It'll resonate.

Brian: It's inspiring, empowering, powering and you'll leave knowing and feeling like

Brian: you belong in any scenario. It's fantastic.

Marvin: Yeah. And it's interesting. I mean, you know, so, you know, you are not female and African American.

Marvin: So I'm kind of curious, you know, how did you feel comfortable that you could

Marvin: tell Maya's story authentically and respectfully?

Brian: I knew being a white author with a young black narrative that grows up,

Brian: I knew that that probably would end up being a bit of a hurdle. But.

Brian: I also felt as though that the story has never been told.

Brian: It's never been... Let me go back.

Brian: I knew, again, like I said, that I was going to end up running into some obstacles

Brian: as far as that aspect might be concerned.

Brian: And I wanted to remove that because the amount of research that I did for this book, i.e.

Brian: The eight years spent making everything perfect, making everything right,

Brian: making all the puzzle pieces fit, it. I had 16 women as beta readers.

Brian: My research was just immeasurable.

Brian: Again, I constantly was referring to friends and also people that had nothing

Brian: to do with fly fishing or understanding anything about fly fishing, uh,

Brian: to, to, to help make sure that the voice and the Southern voice was right.

Brian: And I feel good about it. I feel positive about it.

Brian: And, um, I got a little bit of pushback. I reached out to, uh,

Brian: some, some individuals that, uh, that, that said, there's no way that I could

Brian: do that. And, uh, you know, I'm not a quitter.

Brian: So, um, I think that don't judge a book by its cover. That's gonna be my mantra.

Marvin: Well, there you go. And you know, it's kind of interesting, right?

Marvin: So your day gig is you're a visual arts teacher at Myers Park High School.

Marvin: And that is, my mom's a retired public school teacher.

Marvin: And so I know kind of what a grind that can be, right? Cause like,

Marvin: the day doesn't end at two or three o'clock, you're grading papers and doing stuff.

Marvin: And so, I was kind of curious, how did you find the time to craft your first draft?

Brian: I, my, my block of time, um, was specific and my block of time,

Brian: basically my, my day would start at four 50 in the morning.

Brian: I would get up, get my coffee, get in the car, get to school.

Brian: And then I would, I would start hammering through some writing because it was quiet.

Brian: I didn't have anybody bothering me. So technically for about almost,

Brian: almost three hours I could write.

Brian: And And then as the evening kind of wound down after the 7.30 time frame,

Brian: 8 o'clock time frame, I would actually move back in to get behind the computer

Brian: again and start grinding.

Brian: And that pause in the middle of the day where I actually changed modes was enough

Brian: for me to actually kind of work through some stuff in my head.

Brian: Because like I said before, my brain is so jacked up, it's firing all the time.

Brian: And I was thinking, how am I going to fix this thing?

Brian: How am I going to make this work? How am I going to get this puzzle piece to

Brian: fit in here this way so that I can make this happen?

Brian: And that was that space and time in the day, even amidst of preaching the gospel of the visual arts.

Brian: So basically, to answer your question, the long version, early,

Brian: early mornings and then late evenings. It was a grind.

Brian: And the last four years have been even tougher. So being an author is no joke, man, no joke.

Marvin: So were you doing that, Brian, pretty much every day, or were you kind of doing that in spurts?

Brian: That was, without question, an everyday thing.

Brian: It was weekends. It was, yeah, there wasn't a break in time.

Brian: Every day, I was doing some form of writing to further myself.

Brian: And there was a lot of back and forth with my co-author, my cousin. So it was a grind.

Marvin: Yeah, and you mentioned her. I mean, so, you know, people may not have known

Marvin: she, you know, your cousin was your co-author.

Marvin: And I'm kind of curious, you know, how that worked to kind of go from the first

Marvin: draft to the finished manuscript.

Marvin: I mean, did you kind of bang out the first draft yourself and then you guys

Marvin: kind of iterated it, you know, between the two of you? Or how did that process work?

Brian: From the movie script, there was a foundation. And once we had that foundation,

Brian: and Barb said, yes, I will do this with you. I'm going to go down this rabbit hole with you.

Brian: She basically started to take the movie script in terms of its foundation.

Brian: And she started putting the Tetris together. She started putting the puzzle pieces together.

Brian: And basically, she planted the seed, the tree grew up, and then there were some branches.

Brian: I came in with, like I said before, the leaves and the ornaments and actually

Brian: talked a lot about the areas that had to do with the fly fishing.

Brian: And then it evolved to even more. It evolved to certain scenes where I would

Brian: go do research and then I would start writing.

Brian: So over that span of like basically the last five years, I have kind of been

Brian: self-taught in terms of the English language.

Brian: And the English language is a bitch, man.

Brian: It's hard. It's tough. It's tough to be a writer.

Brian: And I learned. It was kind of like on-the-job training. I would send stuff to

Brian: her, she would actually butcher it, and then she would send it back to me with

Brian: her version. I would send it back to her.

Brian: So, I mean, it was like a tennis mat constantly, but I got better and better and better and better.

Brian: And then it finally got to a point where she was not having to edit hardly anything

Brian: that I was doing because I was just so passionate about pushing through and

Brian: finding the voice and finding that muse and then going with it.

Marvin: Got it so it really sounds like she took the script and kind of built the chassis

Marvin: and then you just kind of ate the elephant one bite at a time right you.

Brian: Are correct absolutely that is a beautiful analogy.

Marvin: Interesting and so it's always funny like when i talk to to authors you know

Marvin: i want to you know i'm always kind of curious because you get guys that are

Marvin: like i'll never do that ever again and then there are other people that are

Marvin: eager for it um but you know there's always um and this is probably true kind

Marvin: of in painting and designing you know uh fly fishing fishing accessories,

Marvin: you know, what were, you know, the biggest challenges or surprises you encountered

Marvin: while you were working on the book?

Brian: Oh, thinking that I'd done something monumental. Some of the writing that I had done.

Brian: There was the amount of stuff that she cut, I thought was just superb.

Brian: It was fantastic.

Brian: But that's selfish of me to say that because she would read it and go, it's not fantastic.

Brian: So there was a lot of push and pull. A lot of push and pull.

Brian: And it was a lot of me getting...

Brian: Getting my feelings hurt, uh, and, and feeling like I'd been punched in the teeth.

Brian: And I was like, well, what's wrong with it? Tell me what's wrong with she,

Brian: you know, and she would actually go through this, this whole diagnostic of what, what was wrong with it.

Brian: And I, I had to actually learn.

Brian: I learned a lot about myself in terms of shutting the hell up and stepping back

Brian: and letting things then materialize and letting them evolve.

Brian: And then the system that we had created started to evolve as well.

Brian: As I got better, things would flow. I knew what she would want,

Brian: and I would work through those things.

Brian: And then it got to a point and a place where it became so interchangeable. changeable.

Brian: I couldn't see what she had done versus what I had done.

Brian: And if you talk to her right now, she'd say the exact same thing because she

Brian: told me about two years into the, I guess the 15th draft of the book,

Brian: she was like, I can't tell what's yours and mine anymore.

Brian: And I was like, now I've got, I've harnessed this.

Brian: I have found a voice and I'm getting better at it. I'm even getting better.

Brian: I'm reading The Longest Silence right now by Thomas McGain, and some of the

Brian: words that he uses, I have to go get a dictionary.

Brian: So I figured out something. I was like, if I can just figure out vocabulary.

Brian: I can start manipulating sentences within the English language to speak within my voice.

Brian: And that was a big jumping off point for me right there, too.

Marvin: It's interesting. You know, it makes me think when you're talking about that,

Marvin: it's kind of like, you know, people that go fish with a guide but want to tell

Marvin: the guide how they should fish. Right?

Brian: Exactly.

Marvin: And you got to figure out that, like, you know, what's the point of,

Marvin: you know, you know, associating yourself with people that are better at certain

Marvin: things than you are if you won't listen to them.

Brian: Oh, again, incredibly well said that that's, that's it.

Brian: Oh yeah. I remember being in, you know, I like to joke around and I,

Brian: I would joke around with one of my guide buddies.

Brian: And I remember saying something to him about one of the, like a cast he made

Brian: and he looked at me and he was like, I will push you out of this boat right now.

Brian: So yeah, I get it.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting too. I would also say the power of, you know,

Marvin: reading a lot and writing a lot.

Marvin: And, you know, for whatever reason, you know, you and I both are Gen Xers,

Marvin: you know, kids don't grow up doing that, right?

Marvin: And so, you know, it's kind of one of those things, like, if you don't do it

Marvin: a lot, you're not going to get better at it.

Marvin: And, you know, in terms of the reading thing, I think it's super powerful,

Marvin: right, to see how other people put language together.

Marvin: I remember working with my oldest son during COVID on all of his college essays.

Marvin: And, you know, so that was a really fun father-son experience.

Marvin: But what I would say out of that is, you know, we worked a lot on writing, right?

Marvin: And, you know, for Christmas that following year, I gave him a copy of Strunk

Marvin: and White's An Old Man in the Sea, right?

Brian: Oh, yeah. Right on.

Marvin: And, you know, because there's just so much more to – it's just different.

Marvin: You know, like when I was in high school, we were turning in papers every single week.

Marvin: Absolutely. And, you know, and now it's like, you know, holy cow,

Marvin: they wrote one paper in like four years and people are like super excited.

Marvin: So, but yeah, it's an interesting thing.

Marvin: And so, you know, it's kind of funny because I had forgotten that the book started

Marvin: as a script before it was a book, but it's actually potentially moving back to becoming a script.

Marvin: And I know you've been, you know, working on pre-production work with Angie Harmon.

Marvin: And I was really kind of curious, you know, how did you meet Angie?

Marvin: And, you know, what about the story attracted her and said, you know,

Marvin: I want to make a movie out of this?

Brian: I was, this was last year, about the same time I reached out to Jam Up Apparel,

Brian: where I was bouncing around,

Brian: but I had what I thought was an incredibly solid form of the script.

Brian: And I had Angie Harmon's daughter in my class.

Brian: And I just on a whim, it was a really bold move.

Brian: I said, would you please take this to your mother and have her give it a read?

Brian: Fast forward, probably about two and a half months later,

Brian: this young lady walks up to me with her phone and shows me a text and it says

Brian: please tell your teacher I'm going to make this movie.

Brian: And that was gratifying it was

Brian: exciting at that moment I was like wow

Brian: I have someone's attention and

Brian: I mean if you know any of uh uh

Brian: angie harman's work she's fantastic she's just

Brian: a brilliant actress and um i was like what what's next so uh we kind of got

Brian: on board with with angie and uh through her we were able to

Brian: get the script shot through her agents.

Brian: And I don't know in terms of whether or not we got a lot of nibbles or we got

Brian: anything, but we signed a six-month agreement.

Brian: And then when the six months ran out, we took the script back.

Brian: Now the script is back in our possession now. Now, but Angie feels so strong right now about this.

Brian: She is endorsing the book so that we can move this thing forward and get the movie made.

Brian: And we've got some coals in the fire.

Brian: We really have. We have plan B, plan C, plan D.

Brian: And I believe in my heart that this movie needs to be made. And I want it made.

Brian: I want to be a part of the process. I want to be a part of,

Brian: you know, the industry in fly fishing industry alone right now is doing great

Brian: things in terms of leveling out the playing field and by means of getting everybody involved.

Brian: He, she, they. Getting everybody involved with fly fishing. Yeah.

Brian: Um, that's the way that it should be. And I want to be, uh, a part of that, uh, reform.

Brian: So I'm pushing to get this message out to a really large audience. Yeah.

Marvin: And it's interesting too, right? I mean, you know, in terms of,

Marvin: you know, taking the shot and, you know, reaching out through your student,

Marvin: but I mean, I think that's a, you know, from a life journey perspective,

Marvin: you know, particularly if you're like us and you have a few more miles on your

Marvin: tires than the average bear,

Marvin: you know, to coach younger people or really anybody at any stage of life to

Marvin: be more willing to put themselves out there because it's so incredibly rare

Marvin: for anything good to happen if you play it safe.

Brian: Right. Absolutely. Completely agree with that. 100%.

Marvin: Yeah. And I imagine that blows into your art as well.

Brian: Huge risk taker. I didn't want to hold back.

Brian: And I've been able to finally get myself to a point, given the fact that I'm

Brian: 55 now, that first of all, if I don't know the answer to something,

Brian: I'm going to ask a question.

Brian: Number two, I want to finish what I start, and I'm going to look for every single

Brian: avenue to try to be successful.

Brian: It's ingrained in teachers. I am an educator.

Brian: I'm going to look for every means possible to reach my kids, and I don't quit.

Brian: I'm seeing this through, and I really, really, really hope that people get a

Brian: hold of this book. they put a comment in Amazon.

Brian: They leave a video that says, let's get this movie made because it is a game

Brian: changer. And I feel it. I know it.

Marvin: Yeah, and so, you know, to put a little meat on the bone there,

Marvin: you know, when will readers be able to get their hands on a copy and where can they get one?

Brian: We self-published through Amazon and it will be ready for consumption on September the 22nd.

Brian: So very, very soon. It's coming.

Brian: The e-book will be available in about 10 days.

Brian: I don't even know what that would be then, by at least, what,

Brian: the 7th or 8th of September?

Marvin: Yeah. And so can people pre-order or do they need to remember those dates and then go to Amazon?

Brian: They can pre-order, but we really, really, really want everybody to, they can pre-order.

Brian: We want everybody to be able to hit the ground running, though,

Brian: on September the 22nd by grabbing a book.

Brian: And a beautiful thing has happened with this.

Brian: Angie, because she is endorsing the book, is actually going to be at our book

Brian: signing on October the 5th at Legion Brewery, South Park location,

Brian: from 9 a.m. until 12 noon.

Brian: So Angie will be with us signing books. And again, I'm hopeful that it's unfortunate.

Brian: I'm in a very, very fortunate situation that someone who is in the industry, the movie industry,

Brian: who is an actress, cares enough about this project, feels enough about this

Brian: project, and understands the magnitude behind it.

Brian: That they're willing to actually do this with me and my cousin.

Brian: So I'm grateful. I'm humbled.

Brian: So it's awesome.

Marvin: And are there any other promotional events on the calendar other than the event at Legion?

Brian: Yes, the day before, Friday, October 4th, I'm at Appalachian Mountain Brewery

Brian: in Boone from 4 until 6 p.m.

Brian: The front part of the book originates in Boone, my hometown.

Brian: I was so excited about painting such an amazing picture of Boone,

Brian: the mountains, the community of Boone.

Brian: It was a perfect fit for me to be able to do that.

Brian: Um, and I'm grateful that I get a chance to go up there and do a book signing.

Brian: I hope there, you know, a thousand people up there ready to, to pick up the book.

Brian: Um, then again, like I said, the very next day we'll be back home at,

Brian: uh, at Legion brewery in Charlotte and Saturday, October the 5th.

Brian: Uh, did I say South part location before I might have anyway, uh, 9am to 12 noon.

Brian: And then later that afternoon, we will be at Angry Ale's selling the book for

Brian: the Appalachian State versus Marshall viewing party.

Marvin: Got it. And is there a website or social media feeds for the book?

Brian: Yes, it's www.shetalkstofish, all one word, shetalkstofish.com.

Brian: And you can subscribe to get updates. You can also see the events calendar of

Brian: all the signings that we have coming up.

Brian: And then you can get updates on how we proceed in terms of trying to get people's

Brian: attention to hopefully make this movie.

Marvin: Yeah, and I will drop a link to that in the show notes. And before I let you

Marvin: hop, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?

Brian: Well, first of all, I want to thank you for giving me the time of day.

Brian: I'm grateful. And to all the listeners out there, give it a chance,

Brian: give it a read, and then share the book.

Brian: Tell somebody that they need to go grab it from Amazon.

Brian: I'm hopeful that this will resonate with you.

Brian: And I'm hopeful that this platform actually,

Brian: kind of, in a way, changes the landscape. So I appreciate it, Morgan.

Marvin: Oh, you bet. Anytime. My pleasure. And, you know, just kind of curious,

Marvin: as busy as you've been, kind of burning the creative candle at both ends,

Marvin: have you been able to get out and whack a few fish?

Brian: I have. I had to have some boots on the ground for the back half of the book

Brian: deals with Montana State University as well as Bozeman.

Brian: And my wife and I, for her 50th birthday, got to go to Bozeman for 10 days.

Brian: And we went out there and we caught fish.

Brian: And like I said, with having boots on the ground, taking in some of the beauty

Brian: around Bozeman and just Montana in general.

Brian: General and it was it was spectacular but yes and i'm constantly you know if

Brian: i can find a farm pond i keep my my fly fishing stuff in the in the truck at

Brian: all times so if i have an hour i'll go to a buddy's place and go catch bass yeah.

Marvin: And you uh you got to hang out with uh with our good friend ad maddox as well.

Brian: Oh yes when i was that's awesome that's right when i was in montana i got to

Brian: go uh I got to go see AD, finally meet her face to face. It was fantastic.

Brian: I picked up a few of her prints, my wife and I did.

Brian: And it was really, really cool to be able to see her and her space and her environment.

Brian: She's so kind and so gracious with her time.

Brian: It was right before her show at the very, very end of June.

Brian: I think it was like June 28th or something like that. Not she,

Brian: she had a, she had a show and I got to see everything firsthand.

Brian: And it was, it was spectacular, the work that she does.

Brian: And she's another great friend who has kind of played mentor to me on,

Brian: especially being behind the canvas.

Brian: So it was a lot of fun.

Marvin: If you find yourself in Livingston, you should definitely stop by her gallery.

Marvin: There's some just beautiful artwork in there and she's fun to hang out with.

Marvin: And, you know, Hester, before I let you go, you know, what's the best way for

Marvin: folks to kind of follow your, ventures at the easel, you know,

Marvin: at the word processor slash typewriter or on the water.

Brian: Uh, let's see, you can go to www.hookedflyco.com.

Brian: That's H-O-O-K-E-D-F-L-Y-C-O.com.

Brian: You can also catch, like I said, uh, what's up with the happenings as far as

Brian: the book is ketalkstofish.com.

Brian: And then after that,

Brian: you know, I will continue to keep posting and if you're looking to see what's

Brian: happening, Angie Harmon's going to be dropping a post here very, very soon.

Brian: A little plug for the book and if you want to follow her TikTok or her Instagram,

Brian: maybe catch up with what she's doing too.

Marvin: Yeah, and I'll drop all that stuff in the show notes and I'll also drop links

Marvin: to Jam Up and Mothbear for folks.

Marvin: And, you know, hopefully I'll be able to let you buy me a couple beers at Legion

Marvin: here in about, I don't know, six weeks or so.

Marvin: And Brian, I appreciate you carving a little bit of time out to chat with me.

Brian: Thank you so much, Marvin. This was fantastic. Love talking shop,

Brian: man. It's awesome. Thank you.

Marvin: Yeah, you bet. My pleasure. We should do it more often than once every five and a half years.

Brian: Yeah no make the time to call it now i'll talk to you anytime man it's awesome there.

Marvin: You go take care i.

Brian: Appreciate you thank you.

Intro: Well folks we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing

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