Most of the time on the Interesting Lives of Normal People, we try to dig into the stories of our guests to find out what they’re all about, what’s been on their mind, and what they ‘just need to get out into the world.’ This podcast turned out to be a bit of the reverse.

In this episode with Dr. David Burke, mentor and friend of Jake’s, and a long-time pastor, it’s as though we were the ones doing the sharing. Especially about the church and American Christianity today. 

Surprise, surprise: talking about Christianity and the church (*during COVID*) struck some nerves and David opened up the space for us to share some thoughts, concerns, and hopes--holding all of them with grace and aplomb.

It was clear in our conversation that David is no stranger to opening up space for others. Opening his schedule for his wife’s budding midlife painting career. Opening up a grocery store where low-income residents could shop in the middle of their food desert, Opening up his home and heart for his adopted twins *on top of his 4 other kids*. 

We hope this conversation opens up something for you--maybe even something unexpected.

You can find the transcript for this episode here. Find transcripts for all episodes here.

Questions of the Day

Have you felt a deep calling to something in your life? 

Where have you found deep gladness in your life?

When have you acted on your deep gladness and found it to positively impact others?

Who would be your greatest supporter if you were to step out and risk pursuing a passion?

Visit this episode on our website at ILNPpod.com and share your responses

Links from the Episode

Kelsey Burke Art

Books

Anything by Dallas Willard

Books by John Perkins

Episode Highlights

[2:55] David’s life story in 5 minutes

[9:30] The Son of a UW Professor (who was an atheist)

[20:00] Helping his wife start her passion project: painting

[28:20] David’s passions: college students, Ethiopia, Basketball

[34:00] What makes passion projects successful?

[36:46] Starting a grocery store in a food desert

[50:20] Christianity, today

[58:02] Where desire to do “passion projects” comes from

The Interesting Lives of Normal People

Season 01 Episode 07

Guest: Brandi Shigley

Hosts: Jake Smeester, Ryan Findley, Ryan Holdeman

[00:00:24] And to understand that love just to grow up with the mom and dad that I have is really special to be chosen by them is really special.

[00:01:16] I should also mention that she was orphaned as a baby in the Philippines and was then adopted into the United States. What's really interesting is that with all her projects, businesses, ideas, and success, she still doesn't define herself as an entrepreneur. And most definitely doesn't define success financially.

[00:01:50] And without looking back, he is really unusual and amazing because she prioritizes her spiritual journey more than anything else. She's someone who wakes up each day and is able to ask, what am I supposed to be doing today? And she does it. And I think it's because she looks at her entire life and all that she does by asking.

[00:02:10] Brandi: You can do what you love what you do, but is it serving? Is it serving anybody? Does it actually have a purpose? How is it making the world a better place? How are you learning and growing. We

[00:02:28] It's really incredible. So let's get to it. Brandi Shigley

[00:03:01] Thanks for joining

[00:03:06] Holdeman: peanut fashion, Denver fashion things in Denver. I guess we could probably move on from it.

[00:03:25] You are the type of person that I look at and I'm like, man, if I had just had the energy and the passion to do all the different types of stuff, even just talking with you for a few moments here on this call it's clear you like, you have an energy and a passion and a love for life and meeting new people.

[00:03:58] Brandi: I was born in a hospital in Manila. Philippines May 14th, 1975. My biological parents left me at the hospital and I was what was called a Foundling, which is just an abandoned baby. And shortly thereafter, I went into an orphanage in downtown Manila. One of the things about Manila is there is 100, 1.8 million orphans in the city of Manila.

[00:04:52] And sure enough, they got married. And in 1973, before I came along, they adopted my brother Wayne, who was found in a shoe box at the end of the Vietnamese war. So their hearts already are just like us. Full of love. So I was adopted at the age of 16 months. I grew up in Northglenn Colorado until I was about seven years old.

[00:05:35] And I just loved compartmentalizing things. So I would set up my trapper keeper folder and I would be behind the trapper keeper with my markers and like construction paper, my tape and my string. And I'd be making what is now the first line of the Shigley designs. So at a very young age, third grade, nine years old, obsessed with making paper person.

[00:06:21] And I loved business classes because it meant that we got to leave school and go compete and go hang out with other students doing these cool business strategy, which to me was just fun. And as we get it more into the story I'll go into just having fun with things that you do. Graduated from high school, got into Metro state college of Denver.

[00:07:03] So I would snowboard first half of the day and then try to make it to class by two o'clock. And anyway, it wasn't great. I ended up with that 1.7 GPA. Metro is you're about to get kicked out of here. And I took this speech class with Dr. Carl Johnson and the, my very first speech. He said, Brandi I want you to speak about what you're passionate about.

[00:07:50] And I, soon as I felt what it felt like to actually not be in the school mind, but in more of a passion set mind of like I do, I love right now and how can I share it when school just totally changed for me. And I started to understand that it's okay, that I don't learn, like all the other students, I'm not a textbook and take a test girl.

[00:08:32] And I can't help, but think of that, it was Dr. Carl Johnson saying, be passionate. And that, that has been, that was a game changer for me. So in 1999, I wrecked on my snowboard. I was clearing a 25 foot gap and doing this huge method and I overshot the jump I'm. So when you over shoot a jump, you land in the flat, and it's not really awesome to do that.

[00:09:09] And totally crash to make a long story short. My snowboarding career was over. I didn't break anything, but my ego was broken. And sometimes I feel like when you fall that hard, you either get back up and you keep going where you're done. And I was done. And that was actually simultaneously when I got a sewing machine as a gift.

[00:09:52] And I had people asking me for custom designs and granted, these are not fancy handbags. These were squares that were sewn with a handle on it. That was. Just a little clock handle. And I had a friend at that time say, Brandi you shouldn't build a website. And I was like, huh, I don't know how to do that.

[00:10:30] Holdeman: you got asked to build a website,

[00:10:35] Holdeman: built the website. I know, but you just, I feel like there's a big chunk there.

[00:10:49] Jake: and to clarify, this is before Squarespace or any of those other things

[00:10:57] Fin: I think before Google.

[00:11:02] I need to I need a website. Cool. I don't have to pay, I don't know. I don't have money to pay someone, so I'll just teach myself. So I just taught myself. It wasn't fancy, it was literally Microsoft word save as HTML, FTP, and up onto my server. Like I even probably had my Microsoft flip Bart. Did you

[00:11:29] Brandi: I just know.

[00:11:31] Jake: secure though. Sound super duper secure.

[00:12:02] And I was selling my bags within that first six months in London, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Denver, and LA. And. That was crazy. And at that same time, the press started rolling in. So like the Rocky mountain news wrote about me and I wrote to them, I wrote to the fashion editor of the Rocky mountain news, and I'm like, I'm obsessed with making handbags.

[00:12:49] Even if you're just beginning, even if you were just starting at the business, put yourself out there. So put myself out there. And that article ended up snowballing and I was in every magazine and news station and really having to learn how to have a business fast because suddenly the sales were coming at me like crazy.

[00:13:08] Holdeman: take us, you, you write to the editor and then it just takes off after that basically. Cause she, and all these other people want to interview you too. Cause they like your story and your business.

[00:13:30] Fin: 2002.

[00:13:35] Jake: Okay. So hold on. W I feel like we've covered a lot of ground we're we've gone from Manila, Philippines to competing with Mike Shanahan

[00:13:47] Fin: comer,

[00:14:01] Carl Sandburg,

[00:14:15] Jake: I don't know why I said Sandberg way off. The other thing is, so I forgot that I ever did this, but you're talking about making little handbags out of paper.

[00:14:36] Holdeman: that explained why you started that ninja outset. I'm

[00:14:43] Yeah. I had a pretty,

[00:14:58] Jake: cop came. I'm sure he did.

[00:15:10] Really?

[00:15:28] Holdeman: I don't know who you're up against as a local purse designer. There was

[00:15:34] Jake: were up to 2002.

[00:16:01] And that's really, when I learned so much valuable. The valuable lessons like in Denver, I was like, I didn't have to do any work. Like press was coming at me. Boutiques were hollering at me and I thought I would just move to San Diego and everything would just be the same only nobody in San Diego knew who I was.

[00:16:53] And when I was working for that skateboarding marketing company, that's where I learned the importance of branding. That's when I learned how do you write a press release? That's what I learned about the importance of a logo and all of that good stuff, while simultaneously still doing my handbags and going up to LA and San Francisco to do these fashion markets with all these amazing real west coast designers.

[00:17:36] And when I came back here, I had no idea what I was doing with my life. I didn't know. I just didn't know what I was doing. And I was living in my parents' basement. I was busing tables and it was when I was busting a table that I was like, Hey, why don't I start a company? Doing fashion markets, like what I did in LA and in San Francisco, hi, I went home.

[00:18:29] And it was in a big warehouse right down in the neighborhood that I still work in. And that's really where fashion Denver was born. It was born because I had learned what it was like to be an independent designer. And then. My experience in the fashion industry in LA and in San Francisco, and learning about branding and learning about marketing and PR putting all of that together is really what formulated creating fashion Denver.

[00:19:15] And honestly, back then nobody was using that. And I just thought it was like, duh, we all need to do what we love and love

[00:19:31] Was anyone bringing them together? Were they all having to do their own thing and you're bringing a new concept to light or what was this pitch of? Let's collaborate to create a market, to bring people to my buy from all of us. What was that like?

[00:19:54] Holdeman: So what were, how were they slinging their product before you were, other than the margin? So they were, so you're offering, I'm just thinking that, restaurants intentionally collaborate on location, right? Because it helps their business. I think this is a big idea, collaboration, and we have a ton of silos out there in a bunch of different ecosystems.

[00:20:33] Brandi: I can't answer that. That's a great question, but again, I think it's like, This kind of, this isn't necessarily a good thing, but I'm, I think I'm just, I've, I'm always in the moment that I don't see the bigger picture and Ryan, I know entrepreneurially you and I have gotten into this conversation like I have a hard time being like, what's my five year goal.

[00:21:13] Holdeman: So are you intuitively picking up on what was needed or were you just getting lucky?

[00:21:27] Holdeman: Can you give

[00:21:34] Brandi: So I know, and actually when Ryan calls it a collaborative event, collaborative is not the really the first word I would think of when I do these events, but it totally is collaboration.

[00:22:07] That's what it was.

[00:22:10] Brandi: I haven't done a fashion market. Oh. Since October my, when I celebrated 15 years of fashion.

[00:22:27] Are you the one that really got him into skinny jeans to begin with? And did you invent skinny jeans? Didn't

[00:22:43] Jake: maybe he did.

[00:22:49] Holdeman: I was

[00:22:55] Brandi: Yes. But then for a good three to four years, I had a boutique. That's where I met Ryan. And his brother and and this was pretty early on in the fashion Denver days. It was probably within four to five years of having fashion Denver.

[00:23:31] I had that store for three to four years and I didn't the thing I love most about it was meeting the designers and wrapping the things up that people would buy like a burrito.

[00:23:56] You were kept by help by being connected with and helping all these different boutiques and why not designers on their own do X, however they're doing what they're doing to distribute their butt to their products and stuff. You're capturing all the learnings. And then you were being a consultant, whether it was formally or informally across all of them.

[00:24:33] You helped them figure out how to sell it. I think you became this hub. Of the knowledge that was being gained in the fashion industry and Denver, Colorado.

[00:24:57] And that's awesome to be where I'm at now, which is wherever I'm at. And having, sharing that history with me.

[00:25:07] Jake: take it back to handbags. What are you doing with handbags now? Are you selling them? Is it still a part of any business you're doing

[00:25:24] I had a whole bunch of fabric. People could come and pick fabric and then I'd make them a bag. It's not my passion. I enjoy making it. I enjoy making bags once in a while, but I almost feel like right now in my life, I'm not attached. I'm not attached to anything that I have done. Like I'm not attached, yeah.

[00:26:23] I just want to be his voice. And if that means am seeing a fashion show, cool, awesome. Like I'm gonna, I wanna re I wanna bring that light and that joy and that peace to other people. And so that's really what my focus is as I just want to, I want to be used in whatever way that looks like.

[00:27:03] More, I just want to be out there sharing my own journey through the things that I've been through and just, I want to, I really want to be an evangelist. I don't know if that's the right word to say. I think people might have a negative connotation to that, but I want to be out there sharing the goodness of the Lord and the land of the living.

[00:27:44] Brandi: that is the main thing now.

[00:28:07] You got to see a ton of people that were in that initial stage, asking those questions about their their passion, what they're trying to do, and actually build something. And I'm curious, first of all, can you tell us about the workshop and then also, are there obvious lessons that you saw across all the people that came in?

[00:28:28] Brandi: good. So do what you love what you do. The workshop. I started that in 2002 when I was learning how to be a designer. And it was it was in is I haven't taught a workshop for three years, maybe even longer. It was like, what is it. You feel passionate about and how can you turn it into a business?

[00:29:07] And that was really, that is the basis for that workshop. I don't necessarily feel like I relate to that workshop anymore. I think like I can definitely. There's definitely tips on how to get yourself out there, but that's, I feel like life is more about understanding why you were created and what your purpose is and how can you put that out into the world and sure you can do what you love and love what you do, but is it serving?

[00:29:50] Holdeman: And so you're saying the workshop didn't help you get at what you were passionate about. It assumed you already knew that and then it tell you how to execute it, basically.

[00:30:12] Brandi: Yeah. Yeah, yes. I would love to re create, do what you love. I would love to, I would love to do this workshop, but where I am in my life, celebrating 21 years of entrepreneurship, having this walk that I've been on in this journey that I've been on with just being an entrepreneur and my faith, because that's like a pretty that hasn't been there that whole time and putting that all together to see like what, wow, what do I really find to be really be important?

[00:30:54] Holdeman: one thing that I've,

[00:31:09] We've been, we're both Holden and I are both Gandalf walking with Jake through his journey to find his rings

[00:31:25] Fin: all the plot lines of Lord of the rings,

[00:31:28] Holdeman: big Jake

[00:31:32] Fin: But we started with a question of can you just as you can, the job just be fine and maybe you find passion elsewhere.

[00:31:49] Brandi: awesome. When you love your job. That's super awesome.

[00:32:07] Fin: What I'm hearing is that there's purpose to be found. Potentially outside of being enamored with the fundamentals of your job, like maybe you don't love your coworkers, but you feel like you being there and being a positive contributor or a positive force in the, in the team that you're in, like that could be the drive more than whatever your company.

[00:32:54] Jake: That's a great question. I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I certainly do not feel like I've been able to have figured it out. I don't know if many people really have, but I feel like it's probably not something that I actually intentionally do. It would be cool that if at the beginning of each day I said, every activity, every conversation I have, every meeting, let it be for the Lord.

[00:33:28] Holdeman: For me, one of the things that is creating a safe place for others, like I would, one of the things I run into as a conflict is pastors and, other Christians think that do unto the Lord is bring prayer and Jesus crashing into every context.

[00:34:19] And then their thinking. It's not about me bringing my point of view on the world, crashing into every context because that's not a safe place for people who already agree with me.

[00:34:40] And how do you feel that? How do you share that by letting people be vulnerable by letting people feel like they're in a safe space and by letting people know how known and loved they are? I

[00:35:07] And the 1 32 aren't don't even feel like they exist and like a dangerous place to be, to feel the way they feel. And I, that, I do not believe in that, that you're not creating a place where 100% of those people feel absolutely safe and feel like they can be who they are at that point. I love Mr. Rogers approach, which is you're perfect.

[00:35:35] Fin: I think maybe to develop that I'm not saying what I do. I'm saying what I say. I think there's maybe,

[00:35:47] Fin: contributing to like a kingdom come or a con kingdom go, you

[00:35:53] And I think if it's like on earth as in heaven, for me, it's like when

[00:36:13] And I think that's that's doing what you do unto the Lord. I think. And it's basically, it's mostly, I think probably choosing the less selfish thing to do mostly. If you need to, if you need a heuristic for that. And most of the things that just serve, like my selfish now need are probably the things that are more like them

[00:36:33] We have a few questions left that we have written down and one of which is, and I think Ryan Holdeman probably wrote this one down is you're one of the most joyful people that I've ever met. I think that's Ryan saying that cause we just met could you maybe unpack like where that joy comes from?

[00:37:05] Like where is that joy that w that Ryan knows so well, like where does that come from?

[00:37:30] So there's joy in the life that I've had.

[00:38:00] First of all. So on a

[00:38:03] Holdeman: no, not the participant in the entire time. I think it was more like 20 to 30. Now. They're probably different amounts. They're different increments because people didn't stay the entire time. So it may have been 10 to 1500 any given moment, but it was a very diverse set of people.

[00:38:41] And then go to, I think it was city park. No, it wasn't city park. What was it? Civic center park to deliver the meals. Now, what was interesting was now this is Brandi's 40th birthday. Brandi gets on a wagon and just runs off with it running and then jumping into the wagon and letting it roll. So all the other 20 to 30 people are all left in the dust as Brandi's off, so excited to go deliver these meals.

[00:39:33] And everyone's happily showing up to do it. And then Brandi is off to the races with, as a high energy, high excitement, joyful person to go deliver these meals without any of us take all the credit

[00:40:07] So good summary of that question.

[00:40:28] nice.

[00:40:49] Tallulah's as well as on her very own website, the 20 something Kate spade wannabe started her career back in the second grade while she was supposed to be reading the adventures of frog and toad. She was cutting purse designs out of scrap paper. She has since graduated to real fast. And how Brandi's unique collection includes many Mo of foe, cowhide handbag, little Ms.

[00:41:37] Brandi's got it in a bag.

[00:41:40] Jake: okay. I want that

[00:41:47] Brandi: Yeah. Because Monica Lewinsky had a handbag business. I wasn't a Kate spade want to be either, but whatever,

[00:41:57] Jake: clarify, I would like to ask three remaining, maybe four remaining questions, passion projects that affect.

[00:42:11] Brandi: That's interesting. I like the way that you, when you say that, I don't believe this sounds people might think I'm overly optimistic, but I don't believe in flop. I just believe in okay.

[00:42:42] I don't, I can't think of anything. That's flopped.

[00:43:00] And even just looking at your website, it's just talking about all these accomplishments, which makes total sense. I'm not knocking that, but how do you balance like self promotion and with what seems to me like in this short conversations, an immense amount of humility?

[00:43:18] I cannot build a website like that. And I like, I cringe when I hear the word self promotion. So that website, like I'm like, who is that? Oh, that's me like that doesn't feel like me cause I'm just a regular girl. So I think. Yeah. I don't know how to answer that, except to say that I didn't build that website.

[00:43:52] Holdeman: I've always felt like I've always felt like we, we have goofed up clarity on what humility and all that is. I think one part of being able to brand or self promote or do an introduction is helping people know how you can be helpful to what they're trying to do.

[00:44:20] Brandi: Nice and humble.

[00:44:29] And and I watch people do that with their intros all the time. And I think what's a miss about it is that it really inhibits working together because it's hard for people to know what you can contribute or like how to put you in a position to do something valuable or whether that be valuable like in the spirit of capitalism or valuable in the spirit of helping other people or whatever.

[00:45:11] Brandi: Yeah. That's interesting because there's humility and there's confidence.

[00:45:37] So it's a horrible and it's like with the media, I didn't go out and seek that media. They saw me like, I'm not out there. Hey everybody, look, I'm just doing what I'm doing. And I feel very grateful that the media has wanted to know more.

[00:46:05] Look at these cool, this cool thing I do. And then fast forward by a couple of weeks I fail at something and I'm like, oh, I'm the worst, and so I'm always just interested to seeing people that have compost a lot, like how they just keep their head on straight without kind of wavering between those two bins of I'm great.

[00:46:25] Brandi: I think it's about to be able to be recognized for just being me and going through my journey, the way that I have, and then be recognized for that. It's more of a way of being like, wow, just be who you are and don't try and be something else. And when you get that recognition for being who you are awesome, you're on your something's going good.

[00:47:11] Yeah,

[00:47:31] Brandi: I never felt perfect.

[00:47:48] Jake: seem accurate for sure. All right.

[00:48:00] Brandi: My advice for people starting a podcast is don't have these very hard, don't have a hard expectations on what the podcast is going to be, but it evolve into what it's becoming and then you will narrow your focus and then you will see what it is that you truly are feeling like passionate about covering.

[00:48:34] Jake: yet. Yeah, no, it does.

[00:48:52] But I'll let you actually answer what books do you recommend

[00:49:11] So I Right now I'm reading Corrie ten Boom's book called The Hiding Place. I love David Sedaris. He's hilarious. David Steris in his book Naked. But I just read the Bible in The Four Hour Work Week.

[00:49:42] That's, something that you can do something with maybe other people can contribute to a passion project, if you will. So we want to help people build their podcasts. So what exercises tool or practice tools or practices do you think are helpful for people in really getting at what are they passionate about?

[00:50:05] Brandi: I love going on prayer walks. I love just leaving the world behind and getting out in the quiet and just talking to God and asking him to direct my path.

[00:50:26] Holdeman: So wait,

[00:50:27] Jake: back around.

[00:50:43] You're lost stiffness like being confident to be like, I have no idea what in the world I'm doing with my life. Just want to let you know world, because the world's all feeling like that. And it's oftentimes when we share our vulnerabilities and our brokenness, that's when we heal. And that's when it floods in.

[00:51:12] Jake: No, I agree

[00:51:17] Brandi: one of my takeaways.

[00:51:24] Even if it's not fun, we have to make time to enjoy life. Even if it's a five minute cycle Fest, number two, surround yourself with people to lift you up and you can lift them up while simultaneously making time for people that need to be lifted up. Get outside yourself and serve others. That's where all the magic happens.

[00:51:56] Jake: Before we started officially interviewing Brandi, we had a quick side conversation about her mom passing away about a year ago. So before we end today's episode, we thought you went to hear this portion of the conversation as

[00:52:10] Brandi: My mom passed away last June and to experience her and the end of her life was like one of the most incredible things that I've ever experienced. And anyway, make a long story short. My dad came over for dinner, my brother and I are roommates. I, and. It was just awesome. We were trying to remember the chicken's names.

[00:52:56] And so it was just a really cool moment of celebrating, being with my family, celebrating my mother and knowing that she's here in my heart, in all of our hearts. And really just seeing God work through that and seeing the strength that he's giving us and the joy. And it's just been amazing.

[00:53:40] Jake: has the death of your mom.

[00:53:58] Brandi: I th I think it's important to also know the very root of things.

[00:54:25] And I went to an orphanage for eight months. And then I was fostered for eight months in Manila, Philippines. And then my mom and dad adopted me in 70, 19 76. And so to, and this is, this really has been something that I've come to understand as I get older, but I was never abandoned. I was loved.

[00:55:10] She spent so much time with me and my brother and just to grow up with the mom and dad that I have is really special to be chosen by them is really special. So to be able to be there until the end of my mom's life and then to experience the beautiful life that we've had together.

[00:56:08] As a family. We're getting to know each other in completely new ways. It's like my dad and my brother and me now, I was just writing about last night, how life is, but a vapor. It is, but a vapor, like we are not on this earth very long. So how do we appreciate life and the sorrows and the pain and the suffering and how can we just make that vapor of a life be.

[00:56:39] Holdeman: My uncle died a few years ago and his wife, he was dying. I was thinking about how do you really PR how do you prepare yourself for the fact that you're going to lose, especially anyone older than you, for the most part you're going to lose, unless something even more tragic happens.

[00:57:18] So you guys got this special thing where you got to spend time together, you went on a cruise, you guys did a lot of stuff, a away, losing your mom and the way you did created this, like awareness of it so that you could really be grateful for each other and embrace each other while also preparing to be without.

[00:57:56] That's a difficult balance to strike. But it seems like one way people do prepare themselves as by, by hardening rather than embracing. So how do you prepare without hardening in my feeling about the answer is that it's gratitude, intentional gratitude. We've

[00:58:16] And the mom is just oftentimes like the glue that holds together, like a family, like socially. And like when you take away that component in a social sense, like that's just a, that's a hard thing for people that ever, that everybody always relies on mom in so many ways to and in social relationships, like what does it like to figure out how to.

[00:58:46] Brandi: think to answer Ryan and your question, Jake. Definitely intentional gratitude is great, but I really think being in the moment and not thinking about the future, and that was huge because I would start to be like, what's it going to be like when mom is gone, instead of just loving my mom right then and there.

[00:59:29] And I think that has been, that's a huge part of it is to be anxious for nothing. Be here. The ways that I found joy were being vulnerable and just talking to people, talking to the nurses, cracking jokes, like I had my ukulele in there. I was, I played ukulele to my mom up until the night before she passed away.

[01:00:07] Jake: 27. You mentioned it. That has actually been a really impactful verse you more, my wife and I just dealing with some some health issues, after the birth of her second bit, our second girl daughter.

[01:00:32] Some 27, 13 and 14, I'm still confident of this. I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord, be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord.

[01:00:55] Then I whoa, I don't, this is, I haven't read this for a long time, but it's about mourning my mom. And the very next morning as I sat down at my desk to begin working my phone made a sound. Oh yeah. It was unfamiliar sounding. As I looked at my phone, there was a notification that red Vicki Shigley likes your verse image for Psalm 27 13.

[01:01:48] I will remain confident of this. I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait a second. First of all, I don't even have my Bible app set to send me any notifications. I was caught off guard and immediately opened the app, but there was nothing in my notifications that my mom had liked anything for a brief second.

[01:02:13] Fin: Can I add one thing about verse 14, wait for the Lord, be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. If I'm not mistaken, that word for weight is kava and what I was reading once about that word and it's sprinkled throughout the the Bible and it's usually translated as weight, but The way that this guy described it once there are different words for face Bible and the cava that the word that you use here for weight is the strongest.

[01:02:58] Like sometimes, the thing I want to do things, so that's just who I am. I want to do things I want to hedge my bets and, whatever, but that the strongest form of faith there is is actually to wait and yeah.

[01:03:19] If I wait a long enough, is it time for me to move? And that's when I'm like

[01:03:31] Brandi: That's so good. Then I needed to hear that be of good courage and he shall strengthens that in heart.

[01:03:47] Brandi: All right. Thank you guys so much for having me on the podcast.