In the latest weekly news and podcast after-show (sponsored by YouGov), with special guest Nicole Pike of YouGov, we discuss David Beckham renegotiating his deal with Guild Esports, Disney wanting two Star Wars games a year, Ludwig launching a new agency that is working with xQc, Cyberpunk surpassing the 1 million daily player mark, Logitech releasing a new handheld gaming console in October, and so much more!

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out yougov.com/bo E and schedule a call with YouGov today, from

the keyboard to the boardroom. This is the business of esports

weekly new show slash post podcast live stream. I am Paul

the profit that will lead me I'm joined today by my friends and

CO hosts the Honorable Judge Jimmy burrata, Jeff the juice

Cohen and a very special guest this week Nicole pike from

YouGov Nicole Welcome. What we do here if you're new is we

cover the most pressing gaming and esports topics news of the

week. But we look at all of it through a business and C suite

lens we dissect we analyze the business implications of

everything happening in this industry. And best of all on

this live stream we get to do it live with you guys. You get to

get in their faces ask questions challenge us it makes it that

much more fun. We welcome you guys. If you're looking if

you're watching this after the fact or listening to this after

the fact we know so many 1000s of you do we appreciate you also

but make sure next time we do this every Wednesday 2:30pm

Eastern Time. Bring a friend bring a colleague come for the

live show. It's so much more fun. How's everyone doing this

week? Nicole? Great to have you here.

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. Ben's been

snagging all of our YouTube appearances so happy to be the

one on this time.

But Ben has been hogging the appearances Jeff How

you doing?

Very good. Very good. I feel like I was not here

last week so it's good to be good to be back. I missed it. I

was I was in over a Europe. Was that one? I think there was one

last week yes

did one I think we did less we did do one last

week the

show never stops I understand.

I recorded from Dubai. So I don't think being in

Europe is an excuse but clad fair enough

guys, we have a lot of stuff to get through this

week. I do want to tease a podcast episode this week. We

had Liam salaries from BTC mo Batista, Mo actually a cool

company. I would call them a competitor to like a stream

elements or maybe a stream labs. But it's interesting because

they're owned by OpTic Gaming. And so they serve streamers,

content creators and esports teams with like monetization and

overlays and kind of all the stuff that a stream elements

does. They have sort of this parent company that's an esports

team, which is cool, because they get to test stuff with

optics. So interesting conversation with Liam from

bowtie Sumo, definitely recommend to check that out that

will be out this week. Let's jump into some news guys. Let's

jump into David Beckham and guild esports. Let's start with

that news. Because I thought this was interesting. I think we

were critical in the beginning of the deal. That was a lot of

money that they were paying to David Beckham and now I feel

like this has fixed itself and I'm a big proponent of what's

what's happened here. The headline here is David Beckham

renegotiates delegation deal with Gil the Sports Club. The

gist of this is they had this 15 and a quarter million dollar

deal between David Beckham and Gil the esports that was going

to be paid over five years. Obviously David Beckham was

going to promote guild esports what has happened is guild has

successfully it seems renegotiated the deal where

basically he's only going to get half of that instead of 15 He's

getting seven and a half again paid over five years. What's

interesting is Beckham is getting 20% of guildie sports

sponsorship and merchandising revenue. So assuming he brings

money to the table, it's good for guild esports and it's good

for David Beckham I'm curious you know what you guys think of

a deal like this being renegotiated seems like a clear

win for guild here because there's a lot of there's less

money out of their pocket and more upside for them. But I

would argue a good deal for David Beckham also right does

anyone think this was maybe not such a good deal for David

Beckham we're

all quiet here. I think scared to go first. I'm

happy to jump into it. You know it's interesting because when

you tradition when you usually talk about sports D all right

with athletes like Beckham, who here is more of a brand

ambassador, you know, there's risks of injury and guaranteed

money up front money is always their primary focus and concern.

You hear it all the time in the offseason. Again, risk of injury

competitive players and athletes less so brand ambassadors here.

I think this has tremendous upside. The risk to me is time

and how much time David Beckham has to push guild esports, as

opposed to anything else that he's involved in. But if he took

the deal, then he thinks he has the time to make that 20% in

excess, or realize the value of in excess of that additional

seven and a half million. So I think he's betting on himself, I

think guild is favorably converting him or mobilizing

him, I think with a lot of incentive 20% is not a small

amount, and the guaranteed 7.5 If you're Beckham, 7.5, and 15.

There's not a lot of difference there to you, right. So the

potential as well as the legacy and the brand that he's growing.

To, to your point, Paul, I think these are straight wins all

around, the only concern I would have had would be his time to

devote here and he clearly thinks he has that.

And it's super interesting to see this come off

the back of the announcement that guild brought on Sky as a

sponsor, and I think one of their recording the biggest

European sponsorship deals in esports for an esports team to

date. So interesting that, you know, wouldn't surprise me if

those were interconnected in some way. I also feel like there

was a lot of backlash when it was first announced what his

initial deal looked like, on you guys had your your thoughts on

it, but just more generally, and so it's also maybe a bit of a

case of what we see a lot in esports where fans speak up,

they speak up on something isn't as as they think it should be.

And all of a sudden, the org seems to realign about

any coincidence here guild esports making better

decisions now that they're working with YouGov

I sure hope so. But there's there's not a

coincidence but no, I'm good. Good to see them. Like I said,

listening to the fans, whether that's you know, from social

media or complaints to get or from our data.

Jeff, you had a comment we're gonna

same same as Jimmy's and Cole's steel does a good job

of much better aligning incentives growth back home. And

Gil the question I had was more foundational and going back to

our questions that we had when the deal first came out was kind

of like how authentic is Becca esports I'm not familiar how

much of a gamer he did or how much gamers have affinity

towards him I'm sure you would have probably has a ton of data

on that at hand immediately but I'm curious to understand like

just how all the sponsorship has gone through them because

obviously David Beckham massive international superstar but like

um no average gamer was like an English soccer fan and like the

mid 2000s Like I don't know how to overlap necessarily between

those two groups so that's what I would be more you know more

curious about like how when they first started to do did it just

come about because it was the most famous name they could get

which to be fair it's a very famous name so good on them or

was there some like rationale why David Beckham makes sense to

the face of the take I have on that is because

I'm usually the first to call that out Jeff right. I'm usually

the first to say hey, this you know, what is the overlap here?

They should be getting YouGov data to figure out how many fans

actually overlap but David Beckham is one of those maybe

probably a dozen people in the world that's just so well known

and has such a huge following that inevitably it probably

overlaps everything you know, in some like I don't think it's

fair to say David Beckham is just like soccer fans from the

1990s right like early 2000s or whatever it is, you know, when

you when you have 100 million followers or whatever the number

is inevitably you're going to overlap other ways and other

places

so data data hot off the presses here from from

you guys I just kind of popped it open to look of so we look at

athletes former and current across a bunch of different

sports and among esports fans and just click blue the US David

Beckham is actually the most positively rated former soccer

player in the world. So there you go.

Well, any played in the US right so there's

overlap there for that markets like like the it's interesting

to see that the data backs it up.

Yeah. Well, I think Gil Gil definitely, like wanted

that UK identity to you see a lot of those esports or space in

the UK really kind of focusing on that. So yeah, good.

Coming from LA back to you guys. When Beckham

came to the Galaxy, everyone, it was electric. We were all huge

fans, it was the biggest thing to attract someone of that

caliber to us. So just wanted to piggyback with a personal

anecdote on Nicole's comment. Adam says

really smart move by Gil, do you think this shows

that just having a face of your franchise is too early on for

esports teams mainly for funding purposes? Interesting question.

Like is it wrong to have a big name early on or like is it

mainly for funding you think or is there a point in the life

Have an esports team where it makes sense to bring on the big

name. Is there a too early?

I don't think there's too early, it also

depends on how involved that person is. Right? Like, if

they're a founder and they're going a day to day like

something they're passionate about, they're gonna day to day

operating the business, then I think it's great to have them on

obviously, as early as possible, if there just going to be like a

sponsor and a name. You know, it seems like a waste of your own

equity and or money if you're bringing someone in before you,

like build the rest of the infrastructure. But you could

kind of say that about a lot of things. Like I wouldn't bring in

a really good salesperson per se for building like the actual

organization, the players, and just it seems like you're

putting the cart before the horse in the race. But if the if

somebody is the founder, then obviously that changes calculus.

Yeah. I mean, I loved this deal for David

Beckham initially, because I felt like he got the benefit of

having an esports team attached to his name, which a lot of

professional sports stars want, right? They're they're sort of

hedging their bets on the future, and he was getting paid

to do it. Right. So it was kind of like a win win the

renegotiated deal, though, feels more aligned now. Right, where

he actually has to do work to drive you know, upside for

himself. And therefore this it's a win win for both him and for

guild. I like this deal a lot better just for both sides. But

initially, it was definitely not too early for David Beckham.

Right. Like David Beckham was getting a pay day. I don't think

it was too early for him. Was it too early for guild look, they

got funded, they got public, they got a bunch of you know,

people's attention because of it's hard to debate that or what

the value of that is, in the end, as long as it works out.

Sort of I'm a big believer that sort of no one cares, right.

There's like a golf expression that there's no pictures on the

scorecard. Like if guild esports is successful because of David

Beckham, whether they hired him day one or day 100 Do we really

care? Does it really matter? The goal is success and if he helps

drive that that's a good thing. All right, guys, let's move on.

Let's talk about Disney. Disney in the news. This headline?

Jimmy I thought about you the first the second I read the

headline Disney reportedly wants to Star Wars games per year. So

the publisher of the has sub headline says the publisher is

said to be pushing for one big triple A game and one smaller

game every fiscal year going forward. They're betting big on

Star Wars internally. Insider gaming reports that Lucasfilm is

on board for the plan as well and they have a list of upcoming

projects how many of these see the light of day I guess we'll

see but the include Jedi survivor from response Star Wars

that clips from Quantic Dream the competitive shooter Star

Wars hunters and untitled games from start from Sky dance media

respond and Ubisoft a bunch of Star Wars games in the works

Disney bought as we know because we've used it many times as a

benchmark, but Star Wars for $4 billion, which still in today,

like in 2022 discussion still seems ridiculously cheap, but

they've not made a whole lot of Star Wars games since 2012. Now

they want to make two per year I guess the question I have for

you guys is Do you buy this strategy from Disney? Do you

think we will see two games per year and the cold maybe for you

again? I think there's interesting sort of they should

be probably talking to you guys if they're not already. Is there

demand for two Star Wars games a year? Like Are we just all

assuming that people love Star Wars without real data behind

it?

Yeah, I mean, I think first of all, as with most

things Devil is probably in the details when we say what kind of

games is it you know, one console PC game and then one

little mobile something or other where you could be hitting two

totally different audiences. So there's there's definitely that

but part of me feels like they're starting to kind of

become this intermixing or even confusing between the cycles of

like the Netflix entertainment industry versus the video game

entertainment industry? And is there really that that appetite

for something to turn through that quickly? And even more so

can you even create a decent game that quickly on on, you

know, and that consistently that and then compete with all the

other ones coming out? It feels it feels aggressive to me, um,

let's just say,

Kieran says, oh, man, deja vu Star Wars games.

Let me expand Karen's point here, which is Disney has a

really bad track record with games, right? They just they

have not been able to consistently put out very high

quality games on time, at least not to match the hype that

surrounds their games. And so is the is part of the problem, the

outsource business model here that they like they don't own

any studios, really, and they're all They're all outsourcing it

to other studios, and therefore they don't have total control or

creative control necessarily. Like Does anyone think the

outsource business model is the problem?

I would argue that's their strength and why

they're able to do so many games and commit to an aggressive

schedule like this. You know, if they were trying to tackle this

all in house. Yeah, they want a year would be ambitious, I

think, but because they're outsourcing it, not only can

they try to commit to a larger volume of titles, they can also

So say, hey, you know, this one developer that that game didn't

hit for one reason or another, but maybe it would be softer or,

you know, whomever else that was on that list, that they'll have

more success. They're not only because of their skill and their

history and creating games, but but just the overall fit with

Disney's schedule with the audience. The one thing I love

about the Star Wars universe is, you know, it's not just Jedi,

right in the force, as an dwarf, and you guys are watching that

show, which is really, really great is showing us there's this

whole other side of the universe, right, scoundrels,

and, and espionage. And, and, you know, some of these games

that they had mentioned, if you guys continue to read are set in

different areas in different time places, that the universe,

the IP is so massive, and Disney has only made a very small

amount of that cannon since their acquisition. So I'm

excited for a couple of things. I'm excited to see more titles,

that developer explore different areas of the special Wars

universe, that have nothing to do with the force that have

nothing to do with Jedi that have nothing to do with the

Empire in the Republic. I'm also excited to see different

developers on what they can accomplish with an FPS versus a

mobile game versus an RPG, because I agree with you guys,

that it's a lot. It's ambitious. But I think if you are able to

create something for different audiences and different gamers

on their preference, that may be you know, you don't need to a

year to be successful, you really need one in two years, I

think to be successful. And then you double down on that. And you

go back and you create the sequel, and you revisit

it. And the cool brought up a great point, which

was part of this feels like they're trying to emulate the

Netflix kind of release cadence, right? Where you have to have a

new Witcher every year and you have to have a new whatever

season of whatever every year and and people expected

constantly, like more and more around the same IP on a much

faster basis. Is that a fair like apples to apples

comparison? Because part of me thinks that the Netflix model is

the way it is because once you've watched the eight

episodes of The Witcher that season, you're done right? Like

you don't, you don't need to come back for more, whereas the

game could easily keep you for six months. 12 months, like

depending on how what kind of game and how good the game is,

like, is it a fair comparison? And should we be thinking about

gaming in the same way?

Yeah, it's interesting. It goes against

kind of the the more recent model we've seen where and with

most game publishers, they try to milk out a franchise or even

one title for as long as possible and just add new

experiences or modes or, you know, whatever it may be and

just build on top of this is kind of going back to the old

school like when the Nintendo Wii was it and you just had

these kind of like, almost mini game experiences coming out

every quarter. So yeah,

I'm not convinced to a year is the right answer.

Right? I'm not even convinced that there's demand for that. I

think people want just one really good Star Wars game. And

that's probably good enough. Yeah, the risk is you make a bad

game when you're making this many games. And then the IP gets

burned. It's not like respawn that gets burned or Quantic

Dream that gets burned, right? People only remember the bad

Star Wars game. Let me get caught up on comments here.

Karen says there are so many non canon stories that are so sick.

It's true. I mean, the universe is large. There's no question

the IP is vast enough that you could produce probably five

games a year right? Like the there's no lack of stories to

tell. I don't think that's the issue. Christian says

something's telling me Battlefront is going to become

the next Call of Duty, where we see the nth iteration every year

slash other year. I mean, have they committed to more

Battlefront? That would be great. But it's always felt a

little bit like a battlefield reskin that's the problem as

opposed to being its own unique property. I don't know if

they've ever treated it like its own unique property. Karen says,

I think there's a huge opportunity for a warframe or

destiny esque experience in the Star Wars universe. I mean,

you're not going to will you're gonna get an argument from

anyone on this panel. Probably not. But I do think that would

be fantastic. James says hey, everyone missed last week, but

glad I caught you guys jam. Welcome to games per year is a

bit ambitious. In my opinion. I think we all agree it's probably

ambitious for for Disney. And the risk of making a bad game is

Hi, Karen says I think the counter argument to that is the

large Expanded Universe or non canon content that Star Wars has

to have enough content to make a game for every genre every year

for 100 years with no issue Karen green. I mean, again, I

would argue that about any franchise like you could do Lord

of the Rings games with the amount of written content and

story and history and lore. Like you could make five games a year

for the next 20 years. Matt says I think this is an outsourcing

issue. Like Jimmy mentioned, we don't need two Star Wars games a

year we need one really good game every three years. Just

look at GTA five. They keep going Any updates to it eight

years later, I mean an open world game like GTA where the

Disney just pours all their resources into that that I think

would be more interesting having having witnessed Jimmy playing

Knights of the Old Republic in his switch religiously. I know

you'd be up for that. Jimmy right. Let's move on. Let's talk

about everyone knows these probably my favorite streamer X

QC in the news, even though he's controversial. I think that's

probably why I like him. And the headline here from Dottie

sports, Ludwig and X QC are partnering up for an opportunity

that could take twitches top streamer to new heights. So what

has happened here is he used to be on Twitch, he's now on

YouTube. Content Creator Ludwig recently launched a creative

agency called off brand. And the idea is to help fellow content

creators plan produce and fund events and series off brand led

by Ludwig, they've announced their first client who is you

know, twitches most popular streamer X QC. And he's getting

a new game show called juiced the show is going to be

according to I don't know if it was in this article or another

was in this article, where they talked about how it's inspired

by 90s Nickelodeon game show. So people will get slimed in some

way, I think they will get actually juiced and it will be a

game show. So they're going to be doing you know, contestants

will compete in trivia and other physical and some physical

things. It's going to be done in studio like very professionally,

and so far. It's the only thing off brand has announced but it's

a big announcement Ludwig X QC and this new agency off brand

teaming up to make a new show juiced. I mean, Jeff, I have to

start with you. You're gonna hire Jimmy to sue right? I mean,

this I

mean, they did not come to me to get to get

permission for this. So I feel number one, yeah. Jimmy, get on

him. Number two, I have to say this has a little bit of like,

vent I'm getting like some ven vibes like I don't know like

something seems very vet now. To be fair, these people may you

know, and I know you hate the word authentic Paul, but they

may be more authentic events. So the the actual execution of this

their way, but you know, these are these are some of the

biggest stars out there. So they may actually be able to take

this concept and have it work. But yeah, you can't tell me this

wasn't an exact thing from the Venn pitch deck. Like, Hey,

guys, like people love game shows, like gamers love game

shows. Let's make a game show. Like it's kinda like, you know,

I don't know, it seems very like some something that that was in

their, in their business plan.

Before I get anyone else's, I want to read

some of the comments. Because Adam says, just read this seems

like an opportunity for Jeff to get involved on the juice

production. So Jeff, maybe, you know, maybe there's an

announcement here coming. And Ben says, Jeff, the juice cone

is getting slimed on this show. Right? I mean, you do go on as

the contestant I feel like at the very least. Nicole, your

thoughts on this?

I have a question back. Have they said where this

will actually air? Or if they've confirmed who's picking it up?

Or is this just going to be a Twitch stream are all all still

TBD? Because that part is interesting with that Venn

connection, right of like, okay, there could be a potential

audience. But where's it actually going to be?

It says little isn't like, I didn't see it in

the article. Yeah. So I don't know. I would be surprised if it

was not on Twitch or YouTube. Like, I don't think this is

gonna be on NBC. I would be very surprised if it was but I'm

curious. Do you what do you think is the right place for it?

I mean, I think online or streamed for sure.

Just kind of given the audience I think what's interesting is, I

feel like there's still kind of just just in the broader media

industry, this idea that like, if we can just find the right

thing, we'll bring all the gamers back to linear TV. Like I

hope that we don't continue to perpetuate that like alright,

let's just try to return people like when said why don't we meet

them where they are? And you know, I'd be curious to see if

the flip side of that is can the company producing it actually

get money for it? Or if they like great yeah, we're gonna

make a really cool show and you can put it on your Twitch

channel, but Twitch is tWitch gonna pay for that to be there.

I don't know. You know, it's a catch 22

I think it's super insightful because I think

I don't know why there is this there's some psychology around

this where everyone who makes content online, right, like the

same way we're making a stream now or x QC streams or Ludwik

makes YouTube videos. There's this draw towards becoming more

like linear TV right, like higher production value in an

inexpensive studio and a show that's maybe a bit more

scripted, not as you know, there's this draw towards that

all of their success came from something that's the exact

opposite of that which confuses me to no end, right? Like excuse

him. Part of his draw is he's everything's off the cuff. He's

a little all over the place. He You know, he says things that

are controversial. He's not the guy I would want streaming live

on on, you know, a game show highly produced game show that

this, to me this has to be pre recorded like I wouldn't I don't

know anyone that would want excuse the live, you know

running a game show with what he could say. And if it's pre

recorded and it's sort of packaged and edited well, then

you sort of lose the magic of the guy

right like him anymore. Ya know him anymore.

It's some like diluted version of him. This

confuses me, I I'm so bearish on this, which I don't want to be

because I like all the people involved. And I think they're

all incredible creators and incredibly talented. But why

not? Like, stick to what made you famous in the first place? I

don't know. Jimmy, if you have thoughts, or

no, you guys are hitting all the right points.

It's definitely a dangerous pivot. There's no shortage of

the ability here to do unique, fun, creative things. The

difficulty to Nicole's point is if you can monetize it, and to

your point, Paul, and Jessica, if it loses the magic and the

authenticity of what made that brand or person famous in the

first place, it's hard evaluating all these different

components of better essentially just, you know, evaluating

potential, it's hard to see this one being all that successful.

That's not to say that they might not find something that

works with other streamers or another concept that backs it.

Like I do think there is a some ability to take these guys

offline do something produced and scripted and have relevant

some type of measurable success there. It's hard to be the first

you know to do that, and this one just doesn't excuse me

especially right like that's, that's his brand is just going

off the cuff and off these rants and being so raw. And if you

take that away from him, I'm not sure what's left. I'm not to say

that he doesn't have a lot to offer but that's what drives his

audience. I think what makes him so fun, and if you're gonna

get away from that, my view is go all the way

like have the guts to go all the way. Put it on NBC, and it's a

produce show, you know, Thursday night primetime, like fine you

want to go and make that very polished kind of TV game show do

it and you want to do it with a character like x QC fine, but

this like it's this always this in between that doesn't seem to

find success. Right. And I think that's, that's that was my

criticism event where it was like, two highly produced to be

on Twitch no one no one really cared about sort of the high

production value shows but it was not enough to go like to

have a life on NBC. Jeff, you were shaking your head. I don't

know if you had something before I get caught up on comments

here. Nope, I

was in agreement.

Let me get caught up. I missed a few here. Matt

says XQ sees your favorite Doctor disrespects is in

shambles. They're both my favorite. I can't I can't I have

two favorites. Christian says as someone who watches streamers

from time to time, there's no way I'm watching this at one

data point, I guess I like when Miss gifted school that was

structured. But there was some room for the streamers on the

show to be who they are in situations where x QC can't just

fire off whatever's on his mind. He's not the same person that

greed OTK has done I feel like has has done better than most in

terms of finding a balance there. They did school they did

loot goblin they've done like a few of these, right where it's

sort of low budget game show streamed on Twitch and everyone

is still allowed to be themselves. So I agree. Before

we get to our next topic. I just wanted to Nicole give you an

opportunity. I know I was talking about you govern our

relationship with you guys. But I'd love in your own words just

for our audience. You know, what's the what's the crux of

what you guys have to offer a lot of the people who listen to

our show, and and you know what, what makes you guys really

special in terms of the data that you provide?

Yeah, totally. So And thanks again for everything

you guys do for and with us. We we love BOE and everything about

you guys, you guys, as I'm sure a lot of listeners know, we

offer those syndicated and custom research our company as a

whole goes across all industries. But we have a

specific team, including myself, Ben, who you've heard on the

show, and many others who are 100% focused on on esports and

gaming, which is huge. You know, any research company can throw a

few data points at you on who an esports fan is. But when you're

talking to and working with and using data that's built by

people who know it inside out, it makes a big difference. And

we really especially for the big crowd, the our yoga profiles

tool that focuses on understanding who esports fans

are, and especially kind of how that intersects with sponsorship

opportunities brands is really where I know several listeners

of your show are using our data every day as clients to help

build out pitch decks prove the value of partnerships by

tracking them over time and lots more.

Yeah. And recently, you know, we covered

with Ben last week a lot of the or two weeks ago now the the

metaverse research report that you guys put out, which I

thought was fascinating in terms of people's response to that I'm

quite sure I know it is linked from our landing page. So I'm

putting it all the chats yougov.com/boe Go make sure you

download that report. And obviously, if you want to be in

touch with YouGov, you're looking for data that is

actionable that is constantly being updated. That gives you

like deep insight and ability to make good decisions like the

guild esports folks who are making good decisions. Now, you

know, we really encourage all of our listeners to reach out to

you gov, or to reach out to myself or to Jimmy and we can

put you in touch with Nicole directly or Nicole, I know,

people can follow you on on LinkedIn and everywhere else and

reach out to you directly. So thank you for the support of BOE

and I want to encourage everyone to go to youtube.com/boe. We

also put up all the segments that we've done with you gov

where we've gone through a bunch like they've pulled a whole

bunch of free research for you guys, that is incredibly

insightful. And I know we've used even we have used some of

it in our own pitch decks and things like that. So go to

youtube.com/boe and take advantage of what's there. And

thank you again. All right guys, let's let's move on. I want to

talk about cyberpunk. Cyberpunk in the news. We've been so down

on cyberpunk for so long. Maybe this is the redemption story of

the year, the redemption arc of the year, whatever you want to

call it. And the headline is CD projects as cyberpunk 2077 is

now attracting a million players daily. Senior Developer thinks

players for Second Chance following recent resurgence so

they're getting a million players data daily. And they've

actually published this they hit. It says earlier today

cyberpunk hit 86,000 concurrent players on Steam, which was its

highest total since January 2021. Like a year and a half

later, they're they're hitting new highs and the recent spike

it's as follows the launch of the games 1.6 patch which added

features improvements, and they have price discount on Steam. I

think this is critical to the story. They have the price on

Steam now. They also had an enemy edge runners, which

debuted on Netflix last week, which has been getting favorable

reviews. So combination of half price Netflix show and a big

patch. What's happening now is this resurgence and interest in

the game. My question to you guys of those three things? What

do you think was the biggest factor in this resurgence? A? Or

maybe you think it was something else? Other than those three

things? And B does this sustain? Will we be talking about

cyberpunk a year from now still having a healthy player base?

I mean, it's definitely the Netflix I think I

mean, the patch the patch was necessary because the game was

like literally broken. But I think the Netflix show is

brought a considerable amount of interest. And I think that's a

huge trend, you know, to watch and actually very very bullish

for Netflix as we think about their potential, you know,

gaming ambitions because this is not the first time we've seen

this with Netflix. You know, if you remember, The Witcher had a

similar like, resurgence or what you're never really got

unpopular, but it had a massive increase in its player base

years after its launch when the Netflix show initially launched.

So it kind of is proving that Netflix has the ability to to

kind of drive people into these games, which I think is really

interesting as we think about Netflix has ambitions to become

a bigger and bigger gaming company to answer your second

question like I don't think just because Cyberpunk is a single

player game like I don't think a year from now we're going to

still be kind of people will still be as keen on it as they

are now but maybe they're able to put out the multiplayer

version and this kind of at least brings the franchise back

from where I think it was at this time last year which was

basically dead like literally, you know, dead as a franchise so

great for CD Projekt RED and I think even probably more

important very bullish for Netflix.

I agree with a lot of what what Jeff said. I think

number one that that steam price trap was probably super

strategic and good on them to be like, Oh, we're putting the

Netflix show comes out. First thing people are gonna do is pop

over to steam and search and hey, will will snag them. So

some good kind of multi channel marketing there. But I also I

feel like I'm like a cynic over the years of being in the

industry. Whenever someone puts a press release out like that,

especially that quickly it kind of makes me think okay, I think

they probably think this is their high right so I think they

realized it was kind of the confluence of a bunch of really

favorable things all happening at the same time and that may

not happen again. So yeah, I agree with Jeff and probably

where that trajectory is gonna go over time.

I mean, we saw the whole Netflix phenomenon

with f1 The irony to me is thick here if Netflix is the kingmaker

of the games industry right like if if having a successful game

depends on a Netflix show. I would be curious to see the data

around like what arcane did for League of Legends player base

right League of Legends has always had a very healthy player

base but I'm sure they can measure like if there are

significant statistically significant increases around

arcane when it released like I don't know is Netflix becoming

the kingmaker in the gaming space? Ironically enough, you

know, we've been kind of tough on their gaming strategy.

I think it just shows this whole transmedia

strategy, which we've we've been talking about now for like, a

couple of years. But at first, I think we were all or everyone,

the general, like investing public was fairly skeptical

whether this whole strategy of creating a show, creating

shoulder content would really work. Because I think

historically, there were a lot of being flops. But it's kind of

proving out that, you know, it's definitely working, you're dry,

you're seeing better engagement, driving people to the games.

Yeah. And I was just gonna add to kind of what

you were hinting at, which was not only Netflix being a

kingmaker here, potentially, but what that's going to do for

Netflix, his own game business with all the games that they're

going to have in development that they're slowly putting out,

there's clearly an intangible there, right, a factor of

consumers that are hungry for this IP in one form or another.

And I was just trying to pull up, I was looking at reviews on

the Steam library on the Steam Store, excuse me, you know, and

it's kind of interesting to look at when the reviews were made,

you know, over two years ago, huge gap, you know, of no one

playing for us. And then and then a lot of them within the

last month or two of, again, more positive reviews. And you

kind of can correlate, I think some of that with with the

Netflix show in particular.

Yeah, I just, I'm a little bit with Nicole, and

that I put my cynic hat on for a second here. And I'm like, first

of all, the show drives awareness, right, like people,

but it's, it feels like it's relatively easy to make a decent

cyber punk show, right? Cyberpunk in general, as a genre

is kind of cool. Netflix pushes so much content, every single

week that, you know, everything new is going to get attention in

general. Combine that with the price cuts, and people are like,

Well, yeah, I'll try this thing. You know, I, I thought the show

was decent. I'll try this game. It doesn't necessarily mean the

game is now good, right? Like, the game could still not hold

people. And then this feels a little bit like a bit of a cash

grab tied to the show. I don't know if a game can go from being

as bad as it was to something people will play for the next

two or three years based on a show and a patch and a price

cut.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, you're bringing

more people into the funnel, but it's the same funnel they're in,

they're gonna drip out the same way. Right.

The announcement is like, we filled the top of

the funnel again. Yeah, that's basically what you know, how

many come out the other side? I don't know. Sorry. Let me get

cut up on comments here. LinkedIn user says I preordered

cyberpunk and played it for about 30 minutes before a broken

mission stopped my progress. I think that was a lot of people's

experience and that I'm sure they I would hope they fix the

technical problems because that that's like basic, the technical

problems weren't the whole problem. It was just not a fun

game. Matthew says it seems like Netflix keeps nailing its video

game adaptations, The Witcher arcane. Now cyberpunk. I mean,

better than most, right? But there are a lot of examples of

really bad video game adaptations. But you're right,

Netflix has done a good job. LinkedIn user says maybe I

shouldn't reveal this investment. But I bought a

crypto coin called psych tama and I'm hoping that when One

Punch Man three comes out will generate interest like Witcher

and cyberpunk have, I think this we've shown here that other

media other than gaming can drive interest in things gaming

related. So I don't know if you guys know any of those things.

But I'm not familiar. JM says To be fair, arcane, was just

distributed by Netflix. However, I do agree their visibility

seems to be favorable to gaming companies. What I liked about

what I like about all these is it proves that the most subtle

form of advertising tends to be the most effective arcane,

wasn't running, going, go play League of Legends 50 times

throughout the show, they just made a good show that people

like to watch and then allowed people to sort of explore the

universe further by, you know, playing the games or whatever,

you know, buying things, but I think they did a good job of it

being subtle. It was not in your face. Like we made this to drive

people to our game. And I assumed the cyber punk show

similar. I haven't watched it. I did watch some of our cane. I

don't know if you guys watched any of the cyber punk show.

I have not. But I feel like there's a difference

in that, you know, arcane, there's 10 years worth of league

players and fans. And so for that it's as much of giving fans

more of what they love or off. It's almost like a like, Hey,

thanks for being with us. Here's this new gift of like a new

experience, kind of like we're talking about with Star Wars,

right? Like the Star Wars video game, probably at this point is

going to create new Star Wars fans, that's going to give

different ways of engagement where I feel like cyberpunk a

game that was already you know, a year old hadn't had its

issues. It's almost like Okay, let's see if we can keep it

going kind of thing. So maybe some different objectives.

recall hearing you speak at a thought like, I

feel like there's too Ways To succeed in the industry from a

media like in gaming tied together perspective, you either

make a good game and a good show or both become a meme. Right?

You can either be good or a meme. And both of those paths

lead to success. Being bad obviously leads to failure but

cyberpunk in some ways had become a meme and the show maybe

was them just smart enough to capitalize on the meme, right?

Like people were. I'm gonna go check it out because I thought

cyberpunk was terrible, right the game. And so I'm gonna

probably, because on Netflix, I'm gonna go check out the show

because it's a meme.

It wasn't where I thought you were gonna go with

it. I thought Nicole's point was pretty elegant about you can

either engage or you can kind of try to open the top of the

funnel. But your main your main point, it's also a good one, I

guess.

LinkedIn user says they tied our cane into

valorant as well. I actually didn't know that. If they did.

It was it was not at least a couple of episodes I saw Adam

says James has I guess Adam, you weren't you want James has to

pay attention to this episode. I hope he does. Adam says our cane

was the reason I personally played League for the first time

that that is telling I think that's telling, right to bring

someone brand new into such an established game because of a

show and the fact that the game couldn't draw you in on its own

before that, I think is is incredibly telling. But the show

maybe was a lower bar to get you into it. Whereas the game maybe

feels like a high bar, high learning curve. Whatever Matt

says I feel it feels like cyberpunk 2077 had a failed

initial launch. Now that the show came out it's reignited

interest and led to a second launch. I mean, yeah, that's,

that's that is what's happening here. Christian says anything to

distract us from Chris Pratt. Being Marya All right. You don't

need you don't need any hate for Chris Pratt being Mari was just

so uncalled for. The it's like the jury's still out on that

one. Right? We have We don't know if it's gonna be good or

not. So we'll see. We have we have an Italian right here who

can? Who can decide if it's if it feels authentic enough. All

right, guys, let's talk. I want to end. We have one less story

here. And it's Logitech in the news. You know, this is a

recurring theme on this show. We've talked about so many

mobile gaming devices and Logitech throwing their hat in

the ring here. They've announced the this is the headline from

TechCrunch. They've announced a handheld console focused on

cloud gaming. I

think we just lost Paul.

I think we did. Okay, everybody.

I mean, I mean, I'm familiar with this story

already. If you guys want to talk about it.

Yeah. Tell, tell us. What do you think? I don't

understand how this is different than the steam deck or every

other, you know, like, it's not super bullish. Like why someone

has to explain to me why this one is going to succeed. You

know, the switch obviously succeeded. But that was I think,

due to the Nintendo exclusive content. It was a little bit

innovative with it being a handheld, but like, none of the

handhelds that have come after that, if anything, so I had to

get this one I now I'm bearish unless I'm proven otherwise.

Yeah, I

mean, that was my exact instinct was okay, that's

coming really quick after steam deck slash after people could

actually start to get their hands on Steam deck, right?

Feels like Jury's out on how many of those can occupy one

market within the span of a year before the next round of

technology comes out and makes them obsolete. Sorry, guys.

I thought but all of you got dropped. It was me. I

just wanted to say I don't know if you heard it. I mentioned the

the introductory price was 299. And the company says they're

going to increase the price to 349. Nicole, I think you were

saying this as I got back in maybe they're trying to blend

some of the success of steam deck right steam deck has been

by all accounts a big success for Valve, maybe logic Tech's

just doesn't, you know, they want to sort of cut off sort of

valves advantage and under priced them like price them

under the steam deck and try and take that business away from

Valve. I just want to mention the quote that was in the

article because I think it's also another data point. This is

from Josh, from Logitech we had, by the way on the podcast, he

says, I'm a fan of backbone. I love the team there. But my

phone is my business. It's also how I talk with my family. I

have the fear of my battery draining. Phones are also a

source of distractions. So he's talking about the backbone,

which is like that device that you strapped to your existing

phone. And he's making the case that that doesn't make sense

because it's a device that has other uses, and therefore a

dedicated device is the better way to go. Jimmy. I don't know

if he had thoughts on this or if he did chime in on it, but I

know you're a big mobile gamer Yeah,

no sorry, guys, I was staying quiet. I was looking

for exactly that episode, Paul with you, Josh, which, if you're

okay with that, I'd love to drop here in the chat for everyone.

If they wanted to go back and listen to our feature there, you

know, I had my Steam deck, waitlist card or whatever find

my number finally got called. And I messaged up and I said, I

still don't know how I feel about this, I'm kind of on the

fence, I don't really want to order it. It's really expensive

for something I'm gonna play two games on maybe not like and

obviously flip it real quick if I don't decide to open it and

use it or, you know, if I do for a lesser amount, and I ended up

not going with it just because it didn't. It just wasn't all

that appealing to me. At the end of the day, the battery life was

a big concern there. I mean, I do want a unique mobile device,

that's not my phone to you Josh's comments, which are here

in the chat. If you guys check out that episode, I do want a

unique mobile device that I could play a game on in front of

the TV, I don't always want to use my high powered PC for

something. And sometimes I just want to sit on the couch with my

wife while she's watching a show. But I can game and kind of

zone out and disconnect from it where we're together, but doing

our own things there. And I do that a lot on my mobile phone

and games on my mobile phone, but I don't thoroughly enjoy

them. I'm interested to see what this does just because if Xbox

is supporting it, hopefully you know that that transition from

console games to a portable mobile will be easy for them to

accomplish. I'm not sure this isn't something that we've seen

Xbox do in the past, unlike PlayStation on like Nintendo. So

I'm also interested from that perspective just to see what

they can do. And I mean, Logitech is a great partner, I

think the hardware in the way that they evaluate hardware from

a player centric approach where they say, How are gamers using

this? What things do they like? What do they do? And how do we

fix it, or address those and those things in and give them

the tools they need? I do like that about Logitech in

particular, not to say that other hardware manufacturers

don't have similar concerns. It has the pieces that make this

interesting to me. But to your guys's criticisms, yeah, like

it's going to need to be more, right, it's going to be need to

be different. It's going to need to do these things better. And

all we know is that they're trying we don't know that

there's any promise of it succeeding or being able to do

that, other than what looks like a very nice entry price point.

And two big names that we're familiar with.

I guess it's my role to be the critical one. I

think this fails for sure. And I'll tell you why. It's it

relies on cloud gaming services, which have not done well. So

right off the bat, your universe of customers is quite small. You

need people who are you need intersection of people who

currently subscribe to whether it's NVIDIA GeForce Now or X Box

cloud, you know, one of these two, which is the two they name

in the article. And you need to be so into those cloud gaming

services that you want a dedicated device for it right.

But whatever device you're playing, you're using for those

cloud gaming services, not meeting your requirements. And

what you're getting for about the same price as a steam deck

is way worse hardware because the Logitech device doesn't need

to run anything, it just needs to display something that's

being rendered in the cloud with the steam that gets running on

the Steam deck. So that's the second reason you're paying for,

it's about the same money for inferior hardware. The real

killer for this product is Valve has a different business model.

Valve makes money off of selling games on their platform. They

could lose money on the Steam deck if they really care too.

And I think they're about breaking even on the Steam day,

but they could lose money on the hardware if they thought it

would sell more things on Steam. Logitech doesn't have this

luxury right, they have to make money on the hardware outright.

And so you will always get sort of inferior hardware for the

same dollar because they need profit margin baked in. I think

there's so many headwinds here for Logitech. I don't really get

who this is for that doesn't already have a solution for

mobile gaming, right? Whether it's a switch or a steam deck or

their phone or their iPad. I feel like there's a lot of good

options and I'm not sure if the world needed this. I don't know

if you guys have comments. I want to get caught up on the

comments I missed. I guess when I got cut off JM says this pas

feels like eg vs TSM for an esports fans. That's a good

reference. Kieran says quick guys get whatever the big boss

won't let you say out loud. James says I don't think the

Logitech handheld is going to last I agree jam. Matthew says

is this necessarily doesn't feel like Steam deck was the hit

people hoped it would be I mean for Valve, I think it's been a

hit. I don't know if you guys seen other like specific

numbers. But everything I've heard is they're extremely happy

with how steam deck has sold and that's why they're making a

second one.

Well, I think to your point the business models

as much the software bit of it and drive and people to be

purchasing those games through them versus others. So it's

again, like, I've used the word funnel too much in this

conversation, but another way to get more people into the steam

slash valve funnel.

Chris says I met a cannabis conference with my

retroed. Pocket three in tow while watching you guys. Let's

talk about distractions because like Logitech, Chris, you make a

good point, though, because I think those retro mobile

consoles, they're usually cheaper. And and I get why

people would play those because it's really the best way to play

some of those older games. And so I get why you would want a

dedicated piece of hardware for that Matt says, All I'm saying

is I've yet to see a person playing a steam deck out in

public. And Chris says same Gideon, but I don't see switches

out in the wild either. I mean, that's kind of true. But they've

sold a lot of switches. So I'm not sure if that holds up just

because we don't see them in the wild. Because I agree. I don't

see them in the wild either.

You guys should come to all the kids soccer

games, and there's kids on the sidelines everywhere. So you're

just hanging out hanging out at the right places.

Here it says I've used GeForce Now and shadow PC

shadow PC blows GeForce Now out of the water here, and I agree.

And in fact, we had a long time ago, we had someone from Shadow

PC on the podcast, and unfortunately, they they sort of

went out of business and now they're back in business, but

they did have a superior technical solution for cloud

gaming. Matt says, I feel like I see switches occasionally at

people's homes when I go visit friends. I've yet to see a steam

deck. Man, I can't reach it here but I do have a steam deck. So

I'll show you on the next live stream. Alright guys, that I

unless anyone has anything anything else to comment that

wraps up this week's News episode Weekly News episode, I

just want to say special. Thanks, Nicole. Thank you for

being on on the live show this week. Really appreciated having

you really appreciate all of the stuff all the contributions from

YouGov. And, and the that extra level of insight we get from

you. And you got so really appreciate. Thank you so much

for being on the show.

Yeah, absolutely. Likewise, we love it. Thanks to

be away for everything.

Thank you, obviously to everyone who came

and commented, we really appreciate you guys. Thank you,

Jeff. Thank you, Jimmy. As always, don't forget guys, go

check out yougov.com/boe Don't forget a lot of really free and

amazing data on there that you can check out. And don't forget

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though we know so many of you listen and watch after the fact

but try and make it live Wednesdays 2:30pm. Eastern time.

We appreciate all of you. William says another great one.

Thank you so much William Williams podcast episode this

week. So go check that out. And Adam says Have a great rest of

your day all Thank you, Adam for being here. Don't forget guys to

the future is fun. We will see you next week.