Zach Brandon is the founder of MVP Mindset Consulting and a trusted advisor for professional athletes, coaches, executives, and organizations seeking to maximize performance and build sustainable cultures of excellence. Zach previously served as the Mental Skills Coordinator for the Arizona Diamondbacks from 2018 – 2025 where he oversaw mental performance services for players and staff across all levels of the organization. His focus was on helping players and coaches achieve peak performance consistently, while also increasing their enjoyment and satisfaction in sport and life.

Prior to his work in professional baseball, Zach served as a Mental Conditioning Coach at IMG Academy (FL) from 2016-2018. While working at IMG Academy, Zach served as a primary mental conditioning coach within the following sports: Baseball, basketball, tennis, and track & field. He also provided individual consulting services to external trainees which included Olympic track & field athletes and Major League Baseball players.

On this episode Mike & Zach discuss the crucial distinction between merely reacting to daily challenges and proactively setting intentions to maximize effectiveness as a coach. Zach recommends prioritizing core values and goals, thereby enabling a structured and purposeful approach to each day. Throughout our conversation, Zach shares insights from his extensive experience in mental performance coaching, highlighting the importance of self-awareness and intentionality in both personal and professional realms. By fostering a culture of reflective practice, coaches can enhance their effectiveness and ultimately create a sustainable environment for their athletes. This episode serves as a compelling reminder of the power of being proactive as a coach, encouraging listeners to adopt strategies that promote both personal growth and team success.

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You’ll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Zach Brandon, founder of MVP Mindset Consulting.

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is the founder of MVP Mindset Consulting and a trusted advisor for professional athletes, coaches, executives and organizations seeking to maximize performance and build sustainable cultures of excellence.

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You'll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Zach Brandon, founder of MVP Mindset Consulting.

Hello and welcome to the who Pets podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here without my co host Jason Sunkel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Zach Brandon from MVP Mindset Consulting.

Zach, welcome to the hoop Headspod.

Hey Mike.

Super thrilled, first and foremost, for the invitation and the opportunity to have the conversation tonight.

I'm humbled by it.

And you and your partner, you guys have done some great work in this space for a while.

We were just talking before we hit record.

Just the effort and time that you all have invested and providing such a great resource for coaches and different people are not only around basketball but around sports.

So thank you for, for the invitation and all that.

You do absolutely appreciate those kind words.

It's always good to hear that there are people out there that are finding value in some of the stuff that we do and appreciating the work that kind of goes on behind the scenes to make this whole thing a reality.

And hopefully, as I've always often said on the pod, that the game of basketball has been so good to me and there's no way I could ever give back everything that the game has given to me.

And if in some small way what we do here makes an impact on the basketball world, whether it's coaches, players, fans, parents, whoever it might be, hopefully we're able to do that.

And that's my small and meager contribution back to the world of basketball.

So want to dive into with you again just how you got to where you are today.

So let's start by going back to in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me about some of your first experiences with sports.

What got you into sports?

Who were some of your early influences?

Yeah, I, you know, when I reflect back on my childhood, I think the majority of my fondest memories or most vivid memories all involve sport.

You know, I grew up playing kind of the traditional American three baseball, basketball, football.

Did some bowling too.

And there my grandparents owned a bowling alley.

So I don't brag about that one as much.

My wife likes to give me a hard time, especially the first time we met.

She's like, do you have your own bowling ball and bowling bag?

And I was like, I do.

And she made fun of me for it.

So we anyway grew up around sport.

And obviously, like, my, my grandparents, my.

My dad, my.

My family, that was always something that was not only discussed a lot in our home, but we.

We watched sports.

We.

We, thankfully, me and my siblings, we all kind of participated in it.

So, yeah, those are all my fondest memories.

And, and it's funny, like, you know, just this will give you an example of, you know, what kind of athlete I was.

Like, I was very fortunate to be able to play baseball in particular.

That's kind of always been my, My first language when it came to sport.

It's the sport I played.

I went to a small school in Oregon and pitched for.

For four years.

And, you know, I.

It's funny, like, my grandpa was like, my biggest fan.

And, you know, he is very much the type who would, like, brag for you.

And so when I took the job that I was most recently in with the Arizona Diamondbacks, he'd always be like, hey, have you told him, like, you played?

Like, have you told them about, you know, like, what you did and how, like, like your records and all this?

And like, we were fortunate.

We did win a national championship in college.

Like, all this.

He's like, did you show him your ring?

And I'm like, no.

Like, they don't care.

Like, we're talking about the big leagues, but just to give a great example to the listeners the extent of my physical abilities in sport.

So a few years ago, I was in the outfield during batting practice, one game, major league game.

And we had just traded for a significant player, a player that was going to play a very pivotal role for us kind of for the rest of the way in the season.

And so anytime you bring in a new player, it's like you want to make a good first impression, right?

Especially when you're.

Your role as the, you know, the mental coach.

And, you know, it's just, obviously there's the taboo nature of it and what goes into it.

And so anyway, I'm out in the outfield, I'm kind of shagging during BP with everybody around, and I'm throwing the ball in and this player sees me throw and he's like, Zach, you actually have a pretty good, like, arm stroke.

Like, he was clearly surprised by this.

And a teammate made a comment and he was like, oh, like, he pitched like, he's actually got a good arm, all this.

And he was like, all right, like, what was your pitch?

And I said, a change up.

That was like my signature pitch in my college career.

And he, he was like, all right, let me See what you got.

So he squats down during batting practice.

I've thrown maybe three or four balls.

That's it.

I'm not really warmed up.

So I go and I throw a change up with my best intent and I spike it straight into the ground.

Terrible.

And without missing a beat, he goes, hey, those who can't do, teach.

And so.

So if that, if that gives the list, there's any indication about my physical abilities in comparison to the best of the best, that should.

I. I probably could have thrown like a fastball and he would have thought it was a change up, you know, so.

So anyway.

But, yeah, so sports have always been very integral to me and very grateful that it's.

It's now been a central thread in my professional work, too.

It's a great story, Zach.

And it always reminds me when I think of athletes who play at the professional level of any sport, right.

That the physical tools and gifts that those guys have and then how much they've developed those physical tools that they were blessed with a lot of times, those of us who maybe had dreams and aspirations of at some point playing at the highest level, you quickly come to the realization when you come in contact with players who are playing at that level that they're just, again, the quote, built different.

Right?

They're just built different in some way.

There's some.

There's something that they have.

And for different players, it could be different things.

It could be size, it could be speed, it could be mental processing.

It could.

There's.

There's a million different.

But.

But there's something about them that makes them extraordinary compared to the player who played college baseball or compared to the player who played college basketball that wasn't able to play at that highest level.

And your story kind of points out, again, just.

It's just a.

It truly is a different world.

It is.

It is.

When the more time I've been fortunate to spend around these guys and just observe and kind of study and obviously coach many of them too.

It's just you quickly pick up on.

On, like, the details and like, just even.

Or even, just like the ability to do very fundamental things with, like, obsessive focus and consistency.

And it just.

It truly is incredible to watch and gives you a deep appreciation.

Yeah, there's no question about that.

I think that it's.

It's one of the things.

It's funny that you talk about the.

The detail.

And I was fortunate enough to have Mark Hendrickson on the podcast at one point, and Mark played both in major league Baseball and the NBA.

And one of the things that still sticks out to me from our conversation and now I can't remember how many years ago it was that I talked to Mark.

But the one thing I remember he said to me is the difference between professional athletes and athletes who are not at that level is as a professional athlete, the ability to self diagnose and figure out, okay, if I'm a pitcher and where's my release point or where am I, where's my landing foot?

Or if I'm a basketball player, how am I following through?

Or where are my feet?

Or just little tweaks that you can make that players are able to figure that out on their own and do it on the fly in a game, in between pitches, figure out, hey, what is it that I have to do to make that adjustment?

And he's like, all the best pros that I knew in both sports, most of them were able to make those little micro adjustment adjustments all the time, whereas guys I played with in college just didn't have that same ability.

It sounds like that's kind of what you're talking about here in terms of that attention to detail.

One of the things, I completely agree.

I think one of the things that I've had conversations and this is going to be, I promise I won't just use baseball references all night in this conversation, but the example that I've used is like there's levels to becoming adaptable and being able to make adjustments in the game.

It's one thing if you can make adjustments game to game.

It's another thing if you can make adjustments like we'll take a hitter, for example, at bat to at bat.

It's another level if you can make adjustments pitch to pitch.

And I think that's an example of where you see separation start to really take hold.

And, and that's just again in the context of baseball and hitting.

But you can apply that pitching, you can apply that in basketball, you can apply that in football.

There are, there are levels within that ability to separate, to let go, to then also commit your full focus and trust.

And sometimes being able to do that even despite discomfort or despite doubt or whatever the case might be.

I think that's one of the things that I've always been very.

It maybe did catch me off guard a little bit when I initially started.

But I think, you know, you spend time around these individuals and sometimes there's the perception from the outside that they're bulletproof.

There's a perception that they're fearless.

And I Think the more time you spend, the more you realize very quickly they are human beings, they do have self doubt, they do have different elements of fear.

The difference though is how they choose to still act with that fear.

You know, instead of letting it steer the wheel, they let it ride shotgun, you know, and they don't allow it to derail how they show up.

And so anyway, those are I think one of just one example, I think of a.

Definitely a big separator.

Yeah, for sure.

It makes a lot of sense.

I think when you start talking about that ability, as you said, moment to moment.

And I think that was what Mark was trying to get across to me when I had that conversation with him.

Of pros are just able to make those adjustments and move forward, as you said, with that doubt, with that fear, with that, hey, I got to make this change and I know, I know how to self diagnose and then I can get the most out of my ability and do it at the highest level.

Thinking back to you as a high school athlete, as a college athlete, was the mental side of the game something that always fascinated you?

And if it did, what do you think?

Why do you think that held such a sway over you?

I don't know if I knew this until later, maybe in, in reflection and in hindsight, but I, but I, I do actually think it was something that I always did have a deep appreciation for.

I think some of that started with my dad.

You know, my dad didn't, you know, he coached me in a lot of things when I grew up.

And although he never framed it as, you know, mental performance or mental skills or you know, that, that just language wasn't used.

But I think the idea of like being stoic, the idea of like not writing the highs and, and the lows and staying steady and you know, your body language and your composure and just managing your emotions, like I think those were some, some of the things that were preached to me that I, you know, I think for the most part, you know, there are some that get into the, the arena of mental performance because they're like I needed this, like I didn't have this when I, and I think I was fortunate.

Like the latter part of my college career, I got introduced to it for the first time and I had time to apply some of these skills and I felt like it was, it helped me go from where I, you know, again I was a Division 3 baseball player, but I, but I felt like it did help me take it things up a notch.

And I think what it, what it really reinforced for me is the notion like, you don't have to be sick to get better.

And that for me is kind of what my experience was with it.

When I started to get.

Learn more about it, learn these tools and these skills and things like that, I felt like it just helped me level up my game.

And so I think I learned it really from my dad.

I think it was something too that, like, through some trial and error in college, and I was fortunate to play around with some of those skills and start to figure out not just what they were, but like, what they felt like to implement, what resonated, what didn't, what were chat, what was challenging and so forth.

So I think that, you know, to this day has still been very, really helpful.

It's one thing when you think back to your college pitching career that you learned about, that you implemented, that you really felt like, helped you to perform better on the field.

The.

I'll talk about the skill, but then I think the outcome is a little different.

So the skill being like, I think being introduced to breathing and like, like deliberate conscious breathing and like learning to slow down.

Like, I was very much the pitcher that thought like, you know, I'd had music going pre game and I'd be getting myself amped up and I'd go out there and I.

It was like I had expended all my energy in the first few innings, you know, and I felt gassed.

And when I got introduced to some of the mental skills and mental performance tool breath work was certainly a key piece of that.

And what I think I realized was not only did it help me kind of regulate my energy level, my emotions, but it also just helped me stay centered.

It helped me kind of play present, you know, it's all the cliches around, like, be where your feet are and, you know, what's important now, like, win this moment and be here now and all those different cliches that get used.

But I do think the breath is a really nice gateway to that.

And so for me, that was.

That was the tool that in particular, it was.

I just felt like it helped me be more consistent from a mental standpoint, which then directly translated to be more consistent from an execution standpoint.

Makes sense, right?

I think when you can get yourself centered and be focused and, and understand what it is that you're trying to do, and the breathing technique, if that can help you to get to that point, then clearly that's going to help you to improve your performance.

When you graduated from Linfield, what was the Thought in terms of career, what were you considering?

Obviously you end up going on and getting your master's degree, but what were you thinking about as you were going through your college career in terms of, hey, where do I want to end up in terms of my career?

I, I bounced a little bit around as, as others do, certainly in college.

Like, I think at first I wanted to be a strength coach, and then I took it out of me and I said, forget it, didn't want to do it anymore.

I landed on psychology just because, again, I do think I had an appreciation or interest in it.

And then when I discovered that there was this whole profession out there and there were people not only teaching sports psychology, but they were like, doing applied work, that became really appealing to me and I felt really fortunate because, you know, I know for many that transition out of sport and their competitive career is a really difficult transition oftentimes because there becomes a void.

And anytime you make a change to something, the part of the reason why change is difficult is because it signals loss.

Like you're losing something in that pursuit, in that adjustment.

And so I was really fortunate because I had stumbled into this profession and I kind of all of a sudden redirected all my energy to that.

And, you know, I ended up going to a school in Southern California at Cal State Fullerton, mainly because there were faculty there not only teaching it, but they were like, working with major League baseball players, Olympic athletes, US national teams, like high level college programs like that.

I was like, this is what I want to do.

And so I was, I, I'm still to this day super grateful that I was able to, to eventually find that, because otherwise I was like, I don't know.

I'm gonna go into coaching is gonna go.

Like I said, I don't know what I would have done.

So, yeah, very cool.

It's funny how you get to your profession and a lot of times, right, you're stumbling around like most college students are, and trying to figure out, hey, what is it that I'm gonna do and how am I gonna do it?

And, and sometimes you just again stumble upon something that ends up obviously being the right place, right time, and points you in a direction that ends up being super rewarding.

So tell me about the first job search after you get out of Cal State Fullerton and what do you remember about that process?

And does your network help you or.

Obviously, as you just mentioned, you had a lot of opportunity at Cal State Fullerton to be able to work with high level athletes through the people that you met there.

But just talk to me about the job search.

I'm, I'm a very big proponent that success is like not a solo journey for any of us.

And so I'm to this day incredibly indebted to, I think, a lot of people that really help kind of me not only navigate my, you know, undergrad to grad school, to then grad school to that first job.

So yeah, I, I, there was a number of people that played, I think, a really pivotal role and helping create the opportunities that I had.

I was fortunate.

When I was in between grad school, I interned at IMG Academy in Florida and got a chance to work with all different sports when I was there.

And then that following year there was an opportunity to return.

And then that led to an extension.

It turned into like, okay, I'll go back for a few months for the summer.

Then they're like, hey, would you stick around for the year?

And then it turned into almost three by the end of it.

And somehow I was able to convince my wife the whole time.

And no offense to Florida or anybody there, but that was not really high on our, we're from Oregon originally.

So obviously being that far away from home was, it was never going to be kind of the long term destination.

But I'm super appreciative that the opportunity presented itself because it became just this like really great, great lab, if you will, to, to get reps to daily work with teams and athletes and some really great coaches.

And, and I think something too that, you know, the mental performance industry and profession, you know, has increased.

You know, you are seeing more usage, more access of it.

One thing that's still less, I don't, not apparent, but less common is having those coaches kind of entrenched in the actual environment with a team, in a lot of cases they're kind of, they swing in for workshops or, you know, they kind of come in and out.

IMG was great because you were literally there, like for practices.

You were there working in with coaches, you were in meetings.

You know, you're kind of built into the fabric.

And I think that's a really impactful way because I think teaching mental skills to individuals is one thing, but then training mental skills through the practice environment, that's another level.

And that's how I think you also can really create, you know, better gains for, for players.

Yeah, there's no doubt that that's a very unique approach that IMG has.

I know that I've spoken to several people, basketball coaches, I've talked to Kat Lutz, who.

I don't know if you know, I don't know if you know Kat at all, but she's at IMG right now and she's in the mental performance space.

And everybody that I talk to there just talks about what a just collection of minds it is.

Right.

No matter what sport you're coaching, there's just a, it's just a think tank for coaches on all levels, whether it's the mental performance side of it, whether it's the sports specific side of it.

And one of the things that everybody always talks about is what you just said there, that point of being embedded with a team and not just again, swooping in and maybe teaching a one off, but you're actually seeing those kids every single day in their practice.

You're getting to know them.

Which again, I would think from your perspective as a mental performance coach, the more you know about the player, as not just a player but also as a human being, the better you're able then to help them because you know where they're coming from and it allows you to have a greater impact.

And I'm sure you found that as in the course of your employment there.

Yeah, I think, you know, my opinion, their perspective on this has definitely kind of evolved and things.

I, I think there's probably advantages in both perspectives in a sense.

However, I think in my experience when you're embedded, like you just have so much more understanding of the context around things.

You know, it's like when you are working, when you come in or if like, you know, you are an outside clinician or practitioner working with somebody, you only have their viewpoint, you know, and not to discredit that by any means, but as we know, like sometimes their perception or their, like their point of view doesn't align with maybe what the coaches see, what the training staff sees, what the strength coach sees.

And so when you're embedded, I think you just have more access to more complete information.

You can kind of triangulate that and also determine like, does it really need to be something that we directly just work on from a mental skills standpoint and, or is this something that actually is going to get honed in the weight room or on the, in, on the, in the gym when you're practicing and so forth.

And I think when you're in that embedded space, sometimes it just affords more opportunity for that.

What's the lesson or two that you learned from that experience at IMG that you still carry with you today in terms of something that's important for you to.

To do while you're working with players.

Give me a lesson or two that you learned.

I think IMG was a couple of things I think, and this is a.

Probably a pretty advanced concept for kids, you know, and again, that was obviously the main focus.

There is your.

Is they're youth athletes and there was work without others.

But I think there's a perception that mental performance, mental strength, is sometimes associated with positive thinking.

Like, hey, it's.

It's about having all these positive thoughts and being confident all the time and affirmations.

And I think it was at IMG where I really started to learn the distinction that, like, mental strength is not about positive thinking.

It's about taking positive action no matter what you're thinking.

And I think that's a really important difference because, again, it's kind of what we talked about earlier.

Like, I know a lot of players that if you were inside their head or they were narrating what was going through their head, you would be like, that doesn't sound very helpful.

That does not sound very positive.

And yet they're still able to compete, and yet they're still able to perform.

Now, again, depending on how it sounds, what the tone is and stuff, like how sustainable that is, that's a separate kind of conversation.

But like, I think it was at IMG where trying to help players understand that you can feel one way, but that doesn't mean that that's how you have to act, you know, And I think just learning to tease those two, two things apart.

I think this is where you start to hear people talk about, like, you know, the distinctions between, like, discipline and motivation.

Right.

Motivation is like that feeling that can sometimes come and go.

And you wake up in the morning, you don't feel.

Feel like doing something.

That doesn't mean that you have to act on those thoughts.

And so I think that was really one of the main lessons that I took from there.

I think the other big one was it was where I really started to hone in that I think focus is like the currency of performance.

Like, the ability to.

When it's time to execute, when it's time to perform, like, your ability to be as centered as possible and more importantly, to learn how to refocus.

Because the reality is, like, you're just.

Whether it's basketball, baseball, like, you're not going to stay focused the entire time.

So what is your process to reset and do that quickly and let go?

I think those were like, probably the.

Some of the bigger skills and principles and things like that, that probably dominated, I guess, most conversations with those groups.

Yeah.

What's your definition of centered?

So when you say you're helping an athlete to be more centered or more focused, in your mind, what does that look like?

An athlete who's centered or an athlete who's focused, what does that look like?

What does that feel like?

What's the definition of those words?

For me, being centered is really kind of boils down like, can you direct your focus on the right thing at the right time?

I think there it would be easy to picture a scale and, you know, moving left to right and have centered be like, okay, you're.

You're directly in the middle, and that's like the quote unquote present.

And that's where you can only really be centered there.

One of the things that I've, I've shared oftentimes is like, our mind can time travel, right?

It can go to different time zones.

It can go to the future, and you can imagine, you can dream, you can game plan, you can visualize all those things.

It can go back in the past, you can replay things, you can remind yourself of things.

You can go back and pull little nuggets and lessons and so forth and really relive experiences.

All three of those time zones, past, present, future, like, they all have value.

Now.

When it comes to performance in the moment, it's usually best if you're centered in the present.

Like, and so that to me is like, okay, can you, can you focus on the right thing at the right time?

For me, when you're centered, you're able to do so now where, like, whether that's future, there are again, you know, you end a performance and I, I want you to be reflective.

Like, I want you to go back to the past.

I want you to make sure that you get the lesson from that performance and you, you pull from that before you.

You move on, per se.

And so it's, it's a great question.

Like, I don't know that I've concretely thought about defining that particular word, but I think it really does boil down to like, can you direct your focus on the right thing at the right time?

Yeah, I love that idea of my mind being able to go to different time zones.

Right.

I can be here right now talking to you.

I can be thinking about, well, how did the last podcast I did with a mental performance coach, what were some of the questions that I asked him and how could that go?

And then I could think about, well, what's a question?

As we're going through here that I eventually want to get to, and it's not appropriate right now, but maybe it's going to be.

So how do I get myself focused on the here and now and make sure I'm listening?

And this is one of the skills, like as an interviewer, like we were talking about before, don't go back and listen to my first 50 episodes.

Because as an interviewer, I was terrible because I was unable to hold your thoughts and what you were saying in my head and still formulate a question and yet still be listening to what you're saying.

And so I can completely just from.

This isn't even obviously an athletic realm, but just being able to understand what it means to be in that present moment and yet have my mind kind of be working in both directions at the same time.

Can I stay centered so I actually hear what you say as opposed to me just thinking about my next question, and I'm just kind of nodding my head at you and not really listening to what you're saying and just ready to ask my next question.

And it's definitely a skill that I've had to develop over time.

And I can see easily how that applies to the sporting realm, right.

Where I can be.

Take my past and I can either use it positively of, hey, I'm really good at this.

I know I can do it.

I've done it before.

Right.

There's examples.

Or conversely, it can be negative.

Right.

There's a time I failed, and maybe I'm recalling that, and then I can visualize the same thing.

Right.

I can visualize success, I can visualize failure, and my mind can do all kinds of things with me and that.

But if I'm just focused on what do I have to do in this moment, I know what I have to do.

And if I.

If that's where my brain is, that allows me to perform at my best.

So I think it's a really good definition for having not thought about it before.

I think it's a really good definition of what it means to be centered and to be focused in that moment.

I can see the value in that without question.

From IMG to the Diamondbacks.

Tell me about that opportunity and how that comes across your desk.

Yeah, again, I think I'd echo the Being around great people and having people, obviously.

I think for many of us, there are moments in your life where an opportunity you get afforded and it's because somebody is there to Is got a seat at the table to vouch for you.

And so, you know, I was Lucky that when the opportunity presented itself to.

They were looking for somebody to come in and build a department like, Arizona had never had a mental performance department before.

And, you know, some of my colleagues and mentors at IMG were some of the people consulted with, and they were gracious enough to kind of put my name in the hat.

And, yeah, I went through the.

The interview process.

I still remember vividly.

I showed up to, like, the empty major league stadium and, you know, went through a string of interviews.

And I'm looking around and I was in, like, a suit and tie or whatever.

And, like, in hindsight, I was like, I was way overdressed.

Like, I stuck out like a sore thumb.

But, like, I was so eager and excited.

But it was, you know, it was.

It was a.

It was a big blessing, obviously, professionally, but also on a personal level to kind of get closer to the west coast, where my wife and I, you know, originally had called home, and closer to family.

But, yeah, it was a.

It was such a.

A blur in a lot of ways, because your mind goes to.

When you're at img.

I almost view it, like, if you're, you know, when you're like the assistant coach or you're like a player development coach, you can really kind of hone in on, like, doing the work with players, right?

Like, focusing on the technical, the physical, and like, just like, coaching them up.

When you become the head person or you oversee and you get more responsibility, yes, you're still doing that, but you're also like.

You're like air traffic control.

Like, you're.

You're.

You're thinking about other people.

You're managing all the fires, all the different, like, questions, because you're supposed to be the person that has all the answers.

And.

And that was kind of how I felt transitioning into the role a little bit, you know, and it was like.

It was.

I'm super appreciative because I felt like in a lot of ways, IMG prepared me extremely well.

And there were parts of it that didn't I.

Like, I was not prepared for.

You know, it's obviously a different beast.

And, like, kind of the delivery and the, like, the way we provide services and things like that at the professional level are a little bit more unique.

And so anyway, all that to say it was.

I felt like drinking from the fire hose.

And I don't know what this says about me, but seven years later, still in the role and still evolving.

Like, I think I was still drinking from the fire hose every single day.

Like, I don't know that that ever stopped.

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Did they know what they wanted?

So when you're interviewing and they don't have a mental performance division, a mental performance team, however you want to phrase it, what was that interview like in terms of were they asking you as many questions?

Were you asking them questions?

Were they trying to pick your brain to get ideas?

Were they sharing ideas of hey, we want to do this, can you do that?

Just what did that interview back and forth look like?

It's one of the things that I would give a lot of compliments and credit to our front office staff and those that were involved in the building of that department and the hiring process because they had done their due diligence to consult with a lot of different people.

Again, some of those being IMG colleagues.

But also they had reached out to people in not just sport, but like in Cirque du Soleil in the military, in like multiple different settings.

Just kind of asking a lot of questions about, you know, how different people built departments, the models, different challenges, different opportunities.

You know, we were really fortunate too that a lot of our front office staff came from the Boston Red Sox.

And Boston has been one of the teams in Major League Baseball that had had a department for a much longer extended period.

So they had thankfully familiarity with it and from some really great people too.

So comparatively, like I hear a lot of horror stories unfortunately of sometimes people like, hey, you know, this resource is valuable, but like what you should look for, what you should ask, what type of practitioner you should bring in.

Like there is unfortunately a lot of lack of guidance there or people that Think they know what they need.

But then when like you talk to them, it's like, no, no, no.

You actually don't realize that you want something different.

So anyway, that's a sidebar.

But.

And then for me it was, yeah, I was definitely asking a lot of questions too, because you want to be really intentional to ensure that I'm going to take and respect my expertise, but at the same time you want it to be aligned philosophically.

Like, I, I was thinking about this very recently, that we're in an era where between, you know, mental performance, skill acquisition, sports science, biomechanics, like analytics, like most organizations, most teams, like, they've got that now.

Like the separation is no longer the employment of those arenas.

I think one of, not the only, but I think one of the separators is how integrated it is.

Like, how do those systems and those different groups, like, are they on the same page?

Are they communicating complex information that's concrete and objective to players in a way that's digestible in the way that's practical?

And then are they doing that in a way with the coaches being on board and designing practices?

And when you get like, that's where you actually, I think, start to see better separation in how this work can really be done.

Not just in mental performance, but anyway, so that for me, asking some of those questions and kind of getting a gauge on that.

And then there was one other thing I was going to say with that.

Oh, I remember my other favorite memory is like, so basically I wanted to be ready for the question of like, all right, like if we hand you the keys to this thing, like, what are you gonna do?

So I remember the day before I left and then on the flight out to Phoenix, like, I was just typing on my computer and I remember printing this like 20 page document at the hotel where I was staying and then showed up the next day.

And like, I didn't pull it out initially, but I was sitting there and.

And then when they asked a version of that question, I was like, oh, I'm glad you asked.

Like, here, here it is.

But I think the most important thing that I, I had on it was an asterisk on the front page.

Because I said, this isn't going to just be my program, this is going to be our program.

Like, here's my ideas.

Like, I have a plan.

Like, I think I have a, well, robust blueprint.

And at the same time, like, it can't be rigid and it can't just be mine.

Like, it needs to be something that we all share that we all contribute to.

So, yeah, thanks for asking.

Because I honestly, it's.

It's fun to kind of go back memory lane how much of a whirlwind that period was.

Yeah, I'm sure it was trying to build a department from scratch and figure out, well, hey, what is this?

What does it look like?

And how do I integrate it into, as you said, the entire organization.

Right.

Where it's not just you off in a silo doing your thing, but you're also in consultation with the front office, you're in consultation with the coaching staff, and then obviously, most importantly, you're working with the players.

So talk a little bit about how you set that up and what that interaction was like in terms of you meeting with the coaches, meeting with the front office.

I'm assuming, first to kind of get an idea of, hey, here's what we need, here's what we're thinking, here's some ideas, some thoughts.

So just talk about that sort of back office discussion that you would have with the coaching staff and with the front office in terms of what collectively you were hoping to do from a mental performance side.

So early on, it was, yeah, taking kind of some of the ideas that I had that I think were integral to shaping the program.

It was.

It was, you know, early on, when you take over a job, like I remember, even on my own, My own podcast, I. I interviewed.

He's.

It's Karch Karai.

He's the head volleyball coach for now the.

The men's national team.

He was with the women's team for a number of years.

And he's.

He's one of the most decorated, I mean, volleyball players, like, one of the greatest of all time, both as a player and as a coach.

And he.

He just took over the men's program.

So when I interviewed him, he was a year removed from starting.

And so we were talking a little bit about how he approached the beginning, and it was a lot of, like, asking questions.

It was a lot of interviewing different people and, and not just coming in and saying, hey, this is how we need to start doing things.

It was like, let me actually understand what's been done and use the feedback from others.

Like it versus me.

Just presume things had already, like, oh, you guys have probably never done this.

Like, in some cases they had.

And for different reasons, they, you know, had maybe not kept it or, or whatever the case might be.

But.

So I think early on, that was really important.

I'll share a quick concept and then I'll give A more practical example of this.

So a while back, I learned of this concept.

Now, it comes from physics, and I'm by no means a physics expert.

It was definitely my worst grade in.

In high school, so I shouldn't be the last person to talk about physics.

There's a concept in physics that basically states that, like, a system's current state is shaped not just by what's happening now, but by what's happened before.

And so the analogy is, it's like, think of it like when you walk on the sand, like a wet sand on the beach.

Although the wave may come in and recede, like, your footprint, like that imprint still remains.

Like, it's still there.

Like, clearly there was.

There was something left over.

So the point being, like, with this idea of hysteresis, is when you come into an organization or you start a new team, it's really helpful to understand what the history has been, what's worked, what's not.

Like, where has there been damage?

Like, where has there been maybe toxicity?

Like, what.

What have people liked?

What have people not liked?

Like, who have been the key people.

Like, And I think this is where, when you have coaches, for example, and, like, you're trying to repair a damaged culture, this is why it can take some time, and this is why you gotta be really intentional with it.

So one of the things that we did is before I came in and started to be like, hey, here's what I believe.

Here's what's important.

Here's how we're gonna do this program.

We actually brought in every single player in the organization in small groups.

And basically we spent the first few, like, our first touch points with these players, like, asking them, like, hey, tell us about your experience with mental skills.

What have you liked?

What have you not liked?

What's worked, what's not worked, you know, what are the horror stories?

You know, and it wasn't to, you know, disrespect or to, you know, critique or judge what they've had previously, but it was also to gather information and understand, like, ooh, okay, like, I wasn't going to do this, but now I'm definitely not going to do this kind of thing.

And so I say all that because early on those conversations that was really important was to.

To just make sure that before we come in and immediately start installing things, you.

You did want to honor what had come before and you wanted to, like, honor.

You know, I'll share one last quick example with this.

George Raveling, obviously a very.

I mean, somebody who's Had a huge impact, not only in the game of basketball, but in a lot of different facets of life, who unfortunately passed away this past year.

In his book, there's a concept that he sort of describes, I've kind of expanded on, that kind of talks about, like, relationship trees.

So when you inherit a player into your team, there are routes for that player in relationships that aren't always visible, that are shaping that player.

They provide a foundation for that player.

So when you inherit a player, if for whatever reason, maybe they're resistant to something you're doing, maybe you feel like they're just not responding the way that you think that they should, or you say something and maybe you feel like, ooh, like that, clearly I said something that upset this person or whatever the case might be.

His concept is a great reminder that it might not be you necessarily.

It might be because of a previous relationship that they've had.

But you have to ask questions.

You have to get to know their history.

You have to learn these people as human beings.

So that way you can be mindful of those things and you can help coach them and help, you know, developed him.

And so anyway, I say all that.

Like, for me, early on, that was kind of the.

The MO was ask questions, gather a lot of information, and start to understand the relationship tree that players and staff had in the organization.

Once you figured that out and you had that information, and you start working your day to day.

What were some of the most common.

I don't want to say issues, but just what were some of the most common things that would come up where you were able to have an impact day to day?

And I don't know if anything immediately springs to mind there, or it's more of a big picture type of question, but just day to day, what were some of the things that you found yourself dealing with most frequently?

Yeah, a whole host.

I mean, obviously there's.

There's some nuances, too, from, like, the minor leagues to the major leagues.

Most of my time was with our major league club.

I think this isn't so much a specific concept, but it was.

It was actually cool.

I was pretty excited about this.

I saw a clip recently of Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike McDonald, and he.

He was interviewed a couple years ago on a podcast, and he was describing the role of a head coach in the NFL and what goes into that.

And one of the terms he used, which I appreciated because I've often said, like, I think my job was oftentimes to serve as a professional reminder.

Yeah, there were instances where I would share something new or teach somebody something.

But more often than not, the day to day was asking a lot of questions and logging those things.

So that way, inevitably, when a player got away from them or they forget about it or they've slipped up or whatever the case might be, you can be there to be like, hey, you remember when we had this conversation?

Or do you remember when you said this and you bring it back?

And so he, he described his role as an NFL head coach as like the chief reminding officer.

I was like, oh, that's, that's perfect.

Like, that's, I think for many head coaches and many coaches in general, like, that is a role that you, you play is, is.

So I think for me, one of the things I, the day to day is, is asking a lot of questions and helping players.

I, I always say, like, my job is to hold up a mirror to you and ask good questions, much like you do as a, as a podcast host.

You're.

You're holding up a mirror so that way that other person may hopefully know themselves better by the time that conversation's over.

And again, sometimes you can share things that are insights and impactful and in teaching and also, I think there's so much power when you ask questions and you help people uncover the answers that they already know within.

They just.

I.

The one other analogy that I use, and I actually now use this a lot with the coaches that I work with now, like working with coaches in different sports and kind of not being affiliated with the organizations or the teams, but being on the outside is.

There's a phrase that, like, when you're inside the jar, it's impossible to read the label.

And I think about that, like, when you're playing and you're competing, whether you're a coach or a player, like, you're in the jar, like, you're in the pressure cooker.

You're dealing with the noise, you're dealing with the drama, you're dealing with the expectations, the media.

Like, you're dealing with all of that.

What's easily lost is perspective.

And it's sometimes very difficult to find perspective on our own.

And so part of, I think this is what I think coaches do for players.

Like, you help players see the label when they're inside the jar.

Like, you ask questions, you help offer feedback.

Like, you provide them exposure to their blind spots.

And I think now it's, you know, a lot of my work again is with coaches, and it's like, okay, well, who does that for you?

And so that for Me going back to kind of like the day to day.

I know that's not like specific skills per se, but I think that is really the process and the framework is built around just being a really great question asker, listener, and reminder and that being a pretty good foundation.

And then obviously we can get into topics or things.

But yeah, that to me is the foundation for the work.

I love that idea of the reminder piece of it because I know that there's been numerous times where I've sat in a class an in service day as a teacher, gone to a conference or a whatever about a coach's clinic, and you'll be listening and maybe taking notes or writing things down, and the person next to you will say, you know, this is all stuff.

Like, I already knew all this.

Or we are.

We already knew all this stuff.

I'm like, you're right.

But do I think about this every single day when I go in to do my job as a teacher or every day when I go into practice as a coach?

Am I thinking about those things?

And sometimes, to your point, we just do need a reminder, whether we're a coach, whether we're a player.

Sometimes it's easy to get caught up.

I always think about it as being caught up in.

I like your jar analogy.

I think of it a lot of times just in.

I'm so caught up in that.

In that moment.

Right.

What becomes most important to me as a player, as a coach, is the day to day, my performance.

How am I impacting the team?

Are we winning or losing that game?

And sometimes you lose sight of the bigger picture, and sometimes you need that reminder to be able to see that bigger picture.

And so I think it's a really good analogy.

And it.

It resonated with me because again, I think that there's oftentimes not a ton of stuff new that sometimes you get presented with that you're like, oh, man, I've never heard that before.

I got to incorporate that.

It's.

Oh, yeah, I've heard that before.

I used to think about that a lot, or I used to incorporate that into what I do, but I kind of got away from it.

And just hearing it again takes me back to a place where I know I got to start reincorporating that into my routine or into whatever it is I do.

So I think that's a really, really good point.

So I want to kind of take the transition from the Diamondbacks to what you're doing now with a question that sort of bridges the two.

So when you're working for the Diamondbacks.

How much time did you spend working with the manager and the coaching staff from a mental performance standpoint?

And, and that kind of thing versus working with the players and I guess to even circle back further, did you think that was going to be a part of the job?

Was that even something that was.

Because if I'm thinking about mental performance, right when I think of a mental performance coach for a professional team, my thought would have been you're working with the players.

Like you're not working with the coaches, you're working with the players.

So how much did you work with the coaches?

And then obviously that leads into kind of the work that you're doing now.

So take that.

It's a, it's a whole mess of a question, but just kind of take it in whatever direction you want and eventually get yourself to, to where you are now.

No, no, I'm following.

It's a great question.

Before I took the job, I could go back and reflect on all the different teams and groups that I had worked with.

And I've always believed that the work that I was most proud of or the work that I felt like had maybe the biggest impact and teams I enjoyed the most, it was always directly proportional to my relationship with the coaches.

Like that has always been something that I, I've just for whatever reason always resonated and aligned with coaches.

And so I knew that going into it early on the role was very much geared towards players.

Again, this is where I give our front office staff a ton of credit because I think from an early stage too, they were very quick to be like, hey, these are resources for you all as well.

I think early on that became how to help coaches be better mental performance coaches.

Because at the end of the day, you know, as a coach, talk about all the hats you wear, like whether you signed up to be a mental coach or not, you are.

And I think some of the best and some of the best coaches, they're really great from a mentality standpoint and helping players believe in themselves and all of that.

So over time I noticed the shift.

I noticed myself on just even a day to day level.

Like I just gravitated towards spending time with our coaches, like get.

Helping them problem solve the things that they were working on with players and so forth.

But then I think over the course of time too, what evolved with it is the recognition that it was like as coaches, you, we're so generally service oriented.

Like we get into the profession oftentimes because you had somebody a Coach who had a big impact on you and you now want to pay it forward and you just want to like you love the game and you want to impact the next generation like all that, like it's so coaches are just so others often oriented.

I started to be like, well, who supports you?

Like who pours into you?

And I just found over and over again that, that there was too much of a gap there.

And and so my role over the course of time evolved, you know, not just to lead the mental performance department, but to also help drive coach development and, and facilitate experiences and learning opportunities.

And some of that came through, you know, designing of, you know, we, we did internal summits and we did guest speakers and we had like a group at one point, I'd call it like a leadership tribe and we had people from all over the org and we would meet periodically and talk about concepts, leadership.

But then it also was like started to have more one on one conversations with coaches and helping them manage their own things and how to like, hey, a better you will create a better environment for players and the better environment for players is going to drive better players.

So it definitely evolved over time.

And what I didn't know until actually just a few months ago when I think it started to connect the dots for me as to why I am so passionate about working with coaches, not just for them, but even on the mental side is there's a quote, a quote that has really resonated that you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were.

You're most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were.

On one hand, that is within the given context of maybe a role or a title or a job.

Right?

Like, so if you're a head coach, you could be immensely helpful and powerfully positioned to help future head coaches.

If you are a mental coach, you're going to be incredibly well positioned to help mental coaches and so forth.

So there is that piece of it.

There is also though, if you are somebody that has dealt with perfectionism, if you're somebody who has had to overcome some significant life adversity or like dealing with imposter syndrome or you know, managing the, like, how do you become elite professionally without sacrificing relationships at home or your well being in the process?

Like if you have gone through those things and you feel like you've, you've grown and you've learned like you're going to be really well positioned to help those that are like in the down the road going through that.

So all of this to say what I realized is like, I like working with coaches and because they're most powerfully positioned to serve the person they once were and they were, they were players.

And so not to say by any means that you have to have played or you have to be a coach like a traditional sport coach to, to impact players on the mental side or anything like that.

However, I do think you have a relatability and also a, when you're in the trenches with them, your relationship capital and depth is just on a much grander scale.

So I've just found like some of the most rewarding work has been, you know, to use the, the basketball analogy, providing assist for our coaches and helping them better prepare themselves to go impact players in the mental game and also for themselves.

What's a common question that you get from the coaches that you work with?

If you could pick out one thing that you often get asked, what would that one thing be?

How to create more time, more.

In my day, I don't know like that's, that's, that's been a hot topic lately.

I'll share, I'll share two things on that.

I don't know if that's the number one most popular, but I, but I think again, when you're the, when you're the head coach or just even any coach coach, there's a never ending to do list.

There's always a fire to put out the ones you're aware of or the ones you're not aware of.

There's always something to fix, there's always something to study.

It just never ends.

And I think how you are deliberate with your time and you're intentional about prioritizing what matters, not just within the, like the coaching face space, but also, you know, your own health.

Right.

Like I, I like an example is like when I sit down with some coaches, like especially those that are very like regimented and they have schedules and things like that.

I'll literally ask them to show me your schedule or talk through your schedule.

And it's inevitably occurred where I'll see somebody, you know, they'll say something like, you know, I'm just like, I just haven't been.

When I've been at my best, you know, I was taking care of myself physically.

I was like doing all this, like I was exercising.

I just fell in a better place mentally, emotionally, physically, all that.

And I'll look at their schedule and there's no time carved out for them to work out.

And it's like there's time, it's Just like, it's not a priority.

And so, like, your schedule is a reflection of what you value.

And so.

And that doesn't just apply to health.

Like, that applies to coaching.

That applies to relationships.

So, for example, I did a. I went to a leadership, like, kind of like a self awareness, leadership, professional development event a few years ago.

And the quick Cliff notes version of this story is there was this gentleman who's getting ready to.

He was building his second business.

His first one was very successful.

But he described, you know, more stress managing that, trying to build that.

Some of that stress was, like, rooted in things going on at home.

And he just felt like him and his wife were like, on the same page.

And he felt like, just like they just couldn't.

They just.

Something was off.

And come to find out, this guy, like, again, very regimented, has a schedule.

And so the guy facilitating the weekend was like, let me see it, like, right in the middle of this whole thing.

And I remember this converse, this interaction vividly.

So he pulls it out and he looks at it, and he was like, you don't have your wife on your schedule.

And he's like, you can't tell me that it's important to you if you're not prioritizing it.

And I remember hearing that and be like, I. I need to start doing that.

Like, I need to.

And again, like, how much time you get that.

That.

That's.

To each person.

However, I. I bring that up from the standpoint of.

I talked to a track coach recently, and I've kind of adapted this.

He.

He says, when you're a head coach, oftentimes you function day to day as if you're playing defense.

Like, it's like you're in the goalie box in, like, hockey.

And, like, you're like, you got shots flying, like always something.

And you're just reacting to literally everything.

He's like, but not every shot is gonna score.

But sometimes we try to block it or sometimes we go for it.

In reality is like, we don't need to.

He's like, to me, the biggest advantage you have as a coach is to go on offense with your day.

And his version of that is the night before.

He's got his core five values, and he sets his intentions for the next day.

And he's like, okay, these are the things I'm gonna try to accomplish.

These are my goals.

Everything else I'll react to.

But for me to be on offense, I need to prioritize these things.

And again, what that.

Those are how many those are and so forth is going to be to each individual.

But yeah, that's just one example I think of, of a conversation that's, that's coming up with a number of people just because again, I think of just the sheer demand that is pressed on coaches.

I like the idea there of intentionality, right where I'm going to put together my schedule and I have to look at the priorities and then I have to be intentional about putting them on the schedule, making sure that I get to those things that I say are the most important to me every day.

Whatever that, whatever that is, maybe it's somebody at home, maybe it's, I got to be present for practice.

And while I'm at practice, I can't be thinking about XYZ on the business side or on the logistics side or all the other things that we know that head coaches have to deal with.

And I think that that intentionality to me from a coaching standpoint is always really important.

It's important on a lot of levels.

Even getting down to the, the idea of being intentional about how you come to practice.

And it goes back to what you said, right, about reminders.

Sometimes as a coach, you just need to write those reminders down for yourself of today I want to show up in this way or today I need to make sure that I do this in order to be able to get the best out of my team or my players on a given day.

And I think so often we just are caught up in.

Right.

Every day is just kind of this, it's just this tick, tick, tick, tick, tick of the clock and we're just kind of going through and then the day ends and you get up the next day and you do the same thing.

And I do think that that intentionality and just being mindful of what it is you're doing I think is really, is really, really important.

I'm curious because I know this is one of the things that I see out there just in the, the self help world, irrespective of coaching, but just in general is the idea of whether it's journaling, whether it's writing things down, whether you talked about right there, just putting a list of your priorities and making sure those are in your calendar.

So I'm curious if you, as you're in your work with coaches, do you have a set system of something that you like to share with coaches in terms of journaling, prompts or writing or systems for how coaches can sort of

grab a hold of their day similar to players?

I don't necessarily Say, hey, everybody needs to journal per se.

I do think there is some value for sure.

What I am a big proponent of is asking yourself questions on a regular basis and, and, and auditing things in your life.

What's working, what's not working.

So, you know, so let's go back even to this example with like the calendar and schedules and things like that.

It's the same trap that I think players can fall into sometimes that there's always this emphasis on like, more and like adding to what we do.

Like, hey, what's the new thing that I can add or like the thing I can incorporate?

Sometimes the most impactful thing you can do is what you stop doing.

Like it's like what you eliminate from your thing.

Right.

So sometimes that's the way to create more freedom or to, to help enhance your, your game or be more consistent.

And so, you know, I, I bring that up from the standpoint of I like asking like there's like the classic kind of three part question exercise around like, what do I need to stop doing, what do I need to start doing and what do I need to keep doing or continue doing?

And so that start, stop, continue.

I think that's just one example.

It's not the only one.

But I think that's a nice framework that people can apply.

And I think sometimes like that'll be, I'll build that into coaching sessions with coaches as, just again as one example.

But I'm a huge, huge proponent of questions because I think the questions you ask yourself are going to then guide your focus, like what's important.

So I'll give one other quick example.

I want to know, like, okay, Mike, who's like a basketball coach that you maybe idolized or that you deeply, deeply respected?

Yeah.

Who comes to mind?

So I have a guy that I coached with for the first 12 years of my teaching career.

I was his varsity assistant coach.

His name is Phil Schmook, and right now he's coaching a girls high school team here in the Cleveland area.

And whenever I think of what a good coach does, I always tell people that in all the time that we coach together, I don't think we ever lost a game to a team that we were better than because we were always, we were always prepared.

And did we win every game?

No.

But did we lose to teams that we should, should have beat?

Almost never.

Love that.

Within that too.

I'd imagine like you could extrapolate a lot of qualities, a lot of characteristics that he exhibited that enabled you to, to in the group to to have success, especially sustainable success.

So the question that I like to ask, and you can use him and those that are listening, you can replace whoever in your own life or somebody that you see from afar.

I want you to imagine that whatever coach you pictured were to spend a day as you for the next 24 hours.

If they did, what's the first thing that they would eliminate?

And if that person followed you around, we all kind of generally know internally, you're like, ooh, yeah, they would definitely stop doing this.

Or like, this would be, like, one of the first things they would trim up or clean up or whatever the case might be.

And I think that's a good example of, again, not just, like, the elimination and subtraction kind of question, but it's a nice way to, like, audit.

Like, are my current habits?

Are my current beliefs?

Like, and that could be one thing is habits is like, hey, is it something that they would nip a certain habit that's actually not very helpful, or is it even a belief?

Like, am I telling myself something?

Or have I created a story that's not helpful to me that I'm endorsing or giving energy to?

Like, maybe that's the first thing that they would try to eliminate.

And so I think asking those types of questions to me are.

Are just kind of fun ways to again, get perspective and help.

Let me just share one last quick one with this.

On this topic, I'm a big proponent.

I've been on this kick recently.

I don't want to go on a quick soapbox, but the.

You know, there's a popular phrase that people hear that, like, comparison is the thief of joy.

And what I would actually argue is that I don't actually think comparison is bad or problematic.

I think comparison is bad when it's misdirected.

So what I mean by that is, like, where when we think of that comparisons, the thief of joy, we often think about it in the context of what I call sideways comparison.

Sideways comparison is I'm looking over at Mike and I'm like, man, Mike's doing this.

He's doing this like, he's on chapter 20.

Like, it feels like he's way ahead.

And it's like, yeah, you're comparing.

He's on chapter 20, but you're only on chapter five.

It's like, it's not fair to compare the two per se.

Or if you're around somebody and you're like, man, like, they just.

They're always like, they've.

They're such good communicators like, they're such good message givers or like, like they're great listeners.

All that.

Like, they're generally, they've got more reps or like, you just don't know what it's taken for them to get to that.

So all that to say.

What I've tried to help players and staff and leaders do is create more space for backwards comparison.

Mike, how are you better today than you were yesterday?

How is Mike today different than Mike a year ago or five years ago?

Because to me, that's a form of comparison.

When you measure yourself backwards, like, what you'll start to hopefully see is like, you know what, like up now leaning into a conversation or having giving feedback to somebody that in the past, like, ooh, I don't know if I would have said that, or I'm speaking up now in a meeting.

And like, man, I used to always just sit and like, listen and like, I was afraid to speak up or I've added this skill or I'm doing this habit now or whatever the case might be.

To me, I bring this up with the journaling piece because those are things that I like to invite coaches to think about is like, when you measure success, make sure that you measure it backwards and how you are growing.

Because sometimes we get so forward focused and like, achieving what's next.

What's next.

Make sure you look in the rear view mirror and you remind yourself of what you've achieved.

So that story reminds me of a book that I first was gifted probably when I was in, I don't know, sixth grade, seventh grade.

It's called Stuff Good Players Should Know.

It was written by Dick devenzio.

And in that book he talks about comparison.

And he always says that the person you should be trying to be is you yesterday.

And that was the analogy that he put in the book.

And I remember reading that as a kid.

And one of the things that I always used to do is every day, whatever I would do as a basketball player on that particular day, I would write in my little journal.

So if I shot 100 free throws, I'd write down made 82 out of 100 free throws.

Or if I played one of my friends in one on one.

I have, I had a buddy that we used to ride back and forth between our houses in the neighborhood, and we'd play one on one on the driveway to a hundred.

And I'd write down, be John 100 to 97 in.

You know, in one on one.

So whatever.

Whatever it was that I was doing.

And so then I always had that record.

And I kind of looked at that journal as am I beating you yesterday?

Am I beating myself?

And I think that again is kind of the concept that we're talking about here, right?

Is what was I doing?

And we talked about it before this podcast even started, right?

I said don't listen to my first 50 episodes because when I was doing that, I was oming and you knowing and pausing and all these different things.

And so in the course of doing this and going back and watching myself and listening, I learned to train myself to speak in a more deliberate manner.

That allowed me to replace and, and you know, with maybe just a slightly longer pause to allow me to collect my thought and be able to move on and move forward.

And so those are all things that I think if you're a coach or in any walk of life, right, you can value just the idea that you're improving.

And I look at all that in this bucket of and I think this is something that you need to be successful in any walk of life is you need to be self.

Aware.

And what you talked about, asking yourself questions, trying to beat yourself from the past, in order for you to do that, you have to be aware of yourself and what you're doing on a day to day basis.

And if you're self aware, it allows you then to do those things that you described and hopefully continue to grow from that.

And I think the danger in it.

And when you talked about what would somebody eliminate from my life if they were to walk into my shoes, one of the things that I feel like I'm continuously struggling with is I'm a micro task.

I've got 15 things I've got to do today and I might get all 15 of those things done.

So I'm theoretically productive.

But then I always am struggling to find the big picture of I did 15 things, but are those the right 15 things that I'm spending my time on?

And I think as a head coach, that's something that I think coaches sometimes struggle with is right, we get the day to day, we get through practice, we gotta do, but what's the bigger picture of what we're trying to accomplish or the whole season?

And so I think self awareness to me is really important.

And I, I'm guessing that you see that day to day in your work too, that people who are more self aware are able to better implement some of the things that you work with them on.

I'm guessing one, I think what you just described has been such a normal and common challenge that to your point, many coaches run into is, again, what are the big rocks?

What are the main things that I really need to invest my time and energy into?

I'm sure it's been observed already.

Like, I really like stories, I really like metaphors and things.

I'll share one more just because you, you kind of highlighted it here.

So of all people, this actually comes from a quote by Newt Gingrich.

Okay.

So kind of politics aside, regardless of what your stance is, we'll just ignore those for a moment.

But he shared a quote that was built around a lion hunting.

And he said a lion is capable of hunting field mice, but the reward for hunting field mice isn't worth the energy that's expended.

So, for example, like field mice, you could chase them all day and they're going to provide this small burst of satisfaction and fuel, but they don't sustain you.

Now, antelope, on the other hand, it requires way more skill, a lot more effort, but the reward much greater.

And a single antelope can actually feed lions for multiple days.

So a lion's survival really depends on the pursuit of antelope.

I've shared this with coaches because I'm like, you're the lion.

Your antelope are your high value, like high important, like priorities tasks.

Like, you need to make sure that you've defined those.

You need to make sure that, you know, day to day.

Like, what are the main things that I really need to allocate time and energy to.

And know there's going to be a lot of field mice.

There's going to be a lot of quote unquote, low value priorities or distractions that eat up your time.

Like, I have been so guilty of this in my own life where it's like, it's the.

There's something I know I really.

There's an antelope I know I really need to do.

And I'm like, I'm going to answer some emails, you know, and I'm like, oh, I've been.

I needed to get this done.

And that's like, that's not, that's not sustainable.

That's not the thing that's.

And so I've shared that, that metaphor with some different coaches and even players too, because I think we all fall victim to this.

Like, I think players nowadays, it's kind of in that spirit of chasing more.

Like, there's always something new and flashy like this new and like, especially with just how innovative people are.

And I spoke to somebody recently, I love this.

I. I Hadn't heard this.

Maybe this is a well known term in basketball.

But he was like, yeah, there's a bunch of nays myths.

Like all these like got people like trying to like invent the, like the game or whatever, like, or invent new ways to train and all that.

I was like, oh, that's actually pretty good.

I was like, we have our own version of that in baseball.

But anyway, all this to say there's always something new that you could chase.

And in reality though, it's like, man, if you really peel back the layers to like be great, whether it's a coach or as a player, like there's kind of a core set of things where it's like they're kind of non negotiable.

Like those are the things you gotta invest in.

Those are the antelope.

Yeah.

I think being able to identify those first of all is definitely a skill.

And then the second piece is, can I put aside the things that are maybe necessary to do at some point but are not nearly as important in order to carve out a big enough chunk to do those big tasks that are going to be the most important?

And certainly I think I find that to be challenging on a day to day basis.

Your story of, hey, I'm gonna think I'm gonna answer some emails.

I mean, I do that, I do that, I do that all the time.

And I'll, I'll have my to do list or my list of things that are important and every day I'll be like, oh, gotta write that down again.

Gotta write that down again because I didn't carve out enough time or I'll have like, I got this time.

Well, it's not really enough time to start working on that big project.

So let me just bang out a couple of these little things and yeah, I can totally see where that's something that is clearly, clearly a challenge for, for coaches out there.

Without, without a doubt.

So we are coming up close to an hour and a half here, Zach, and this, this has been fantastic.

But before we get out, I want to ask you a final two part question.

So part one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge professionally?

And then the second part of it, when you think about what you get to do every day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

You know, I think for those that, you know, we kind of talked about it a little bit, you know, I'm only three or four months removed from Transitioning.

I stepped down from my full time role.

I'm still involved with the, with the club as a consultant but I stepped down from my full time role because I.

This will answer the joy piece of it first.

Like I think my, my joy very much comes from I have two kids and one's a two, two plus year old and then the other one's a five month old.

So we're, we're in beautiful chaos currently mode.

Um, I'll probably, you know, it's kind of, it's obviously late where you are.

It's late where I'm out probably up in a few hours with a, you know, some sort of wake up call midnight.

But no, that for me has been a huge source of joy and it was actually a pretty big motivator and why I stepped down was I just, you know so many coaches in the profession obviously make a ton of sacrifices to and their families do and I just for this given time period I just didn't, I didn't want to watch them grow up through FaceTime and those things.

So I wanted to be as present as possible.

So the joy is that I think that is also the challenge certainly because you know when you step into the entre kind of preneur world and you start doing things it's, I always say like it's, you know, I always knew like the mental skills and things like that we all, whether we're coaches or players, like we all benefit from them, we all benefit from using them.

I think it's like on steroids when you're an entrepreneur, like how important those things are.

And I've, I've loved how stimulating and challenging that's been because I've only ever worked in a team in org setting between IMG and the Diamondback.

So that's new and that is challenging.

But I think more than anything it's also just really invigorating to be able to be all in on coaches and to try to help them problem solve.

I think especially given the nature of some of their challenges, like some of my challenges are, are the challenges that they're trying to solve and how to help them do that.

And I think like you know, you got the college level, that is what it is the wild wild west and how that's just gotten outrageous.

You have the youth level that like there's been trickle down and like now it's like you listen to people talk about like youth sport and you're like wait, that's like I'm a little nervous.

Like I got A few years before, I'm have to worry about my kids, but I'm like now I'm like this is very.

Than when I was growing up playing and then, and then obviously pro sport is, is what it is in terms of just the, the demands and the pressure and the expect all, all of it.

So, so anyway, I think it's just a lot of great challenges, but I think they're also like really stimulating too.

So anyway, all that to say I think they, the joy and the challenge probably are wrapped up together for me.

Yeah, makes complete sense.

And I think when you start looking at it from an entrepreneurial standpoint and just the opportunity to kind of shape what that looks like for yourself in terms of being able to help coaches and then to your point, you're helping yourself and going through and working and again, being self aware and doing the things that you do and you learn something about yourself as you do it.

And so I think there's tremendous value in that, without question.

And as you go through your parenting journey again, when you start navigating the youth sports landscape, it's one of those things that it's just like being, it's just like every aspect of parenting, right.

You kind of feel like we're all just flying by the seat of our pants.

Nobody knows exactly what to do or how to do it or whether you're doing it right because whatever decision you make, you can never go down the alternate path.

And so it's, it's one of the great joys.

And I think you made the right choice in, in being present for your kids growing up because it goes fast and you never get that time back.

And ultimately, again, as much as our professions are important to us and all the things that go along with those, your family hopefully is there for you forever.

And nobody cares more about them than you do, and nobody cares more about you than they do.

And so to be able to have the opportunity to balance your work life with your family life, I think it's a challenge that coaches struggle with all the time.

And I think ultimately, again, if you prioritize your family, you're never going to go wrong.

If you prioritize your family, there's always other ways that you can satisfy your professional needs and everything that goes along with that.

So kudos to you for what you're doing, the choices that you made.

And again, just from our conversation tonight, I could tell that anybody that you're coming in contact with your able to add tremendous value to whatever it is that, that they're trying to accomplish in their life.

So before I wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people get in touch with you?

Find out more about what you're doing.

Share, email, website, social media, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Yeah, well, first off, thank you again, not only for, for those words which I think were described very eloquently, but also just the invitation.

Mike, I. I know you were giving.

You know, you were zinging yourself a little bit there with how the first 50 or so episodes have gone.

Like, I think I was.

You made the conversation just very smooth and easy and it's cool to kind of see.

I can already see like the deliberateness from having been in the other seat.

So I love that and I give you massive kudos for what you've done and what you've built.

I.

As far as, like, those that want to.

I think there's a couple of ways.

I think the first thing is, like, I'm big into kind of just providing as much value as I can for people.

So two ways that I do that.

One of which I do have a podcast myself.

It's called the Win More Live Better podcast.

It's a combination of short form episodes kind of during the week.

That's just me and it's me sharing, you know, examples of a lot of the things that we discussed here, those types of stories, analogies.

And then usually every Sunday or so or Monday, I release a, A guest interview with a coach or a leader or so forth.

And, and we just talk about like, okay, how do you, how do you win more and what goes into that?

But also now, does that have to be mutually exclusive to living better or hopefully not sacrificing relationships and all that in the process.

So that's one Win More Live Better podcast.

I have a email newsletter.

It's called Winning with Words.

And I basically share kind of like a story or a principle each week.

I explain why I think it matters to performance.

And then one maybe practical way that coaches could implement it.

So those are two, like kind of free resources.

And then I think the, the last one, you know, I'm obviously like, I put a lot on social media on occasion.

So, you know, between, I guess Twitter.

I do have an Instagram.

I already want to delete my Instagram.

I like just started it like two months ago.

By the time this comes out, I don't know if I'll still have it.

But anyway, yeah, a few social platforms, you can find me on.

But I think more than anything my favorite thing is just honestly having conversations with coaches.

So I, you know, and I can send a link for this, but I offer like a free coaching call.

So anybody that's just, you know, not that it has to end in working together in a more formal partnership, although those can happen.

It's more so just like I just really enjoy helping and serving coaches and helping them get clarity on what's important to them and what's getting in the way and, and maybe what could be some helpful resources and forms of support for them, whether it's with me or or elsewhere.

So yeah, so those that are interested in kind of taking deeper dives, those are good places to start.

Zach, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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