In this week's episode of the She's Got Content podcast, host Melissa Brown interviews Sarah Whitbread, a web copy and brand voice specialist from the UK. Sarah shares tips on crafting an unforgettable online presence and being confident in your authenticity through her three C's of courageous web copy.

We discuss the importance of having a strong brand voice, understanding who you are through your values and goals, and the benefits of working with a copywriting expert to create effective web copy.

Tune in to learn how you can create an uncopyable online presence with your web copy so you can attract your just-right clients.

Don’t Miss Inside This Episode:

• Discover the three C's to crafting courageous web copy so you can create your own uncopyable online presence that converts ideal clients.
• Find out what's the one most important variable that you must get clear on first or any piece of your copy will miss its mark.
• How imposter syndrome might show up when you're thinking about writing copy and what you can do about it.
• Hear how Sarah weaves pop culture into web copy to help her clients have a truly uncopyable website.

Links and products mentioned in today's episode:

Sarah's free Stand Up and Sell Out Swipe files are a web copy mini-masterclass.

Rachel Luna's book, Permission to Offend; The Compassionate Guide for Living Unfiltered and Unafraid

About Sarah Whitbread:

Sarah Whitbread, Webcopy, UX and Brand Voice Specialist, is devoted to helping you craft an unforgettable online presence—so you truly have the confidence to stand up, and show the world who you are.

Sarah knows a sensational site will give you the courage to unleash your uniqueness—and liberate your life’s work. Her secret? Fearless, unapologetic webcopy that captures your voice in a way no one else can.

Sarah honed her craft under copy giants Alex Cattoni, Laura Belgray and Stefan Georgi. She’s an English graduate from Goldsmiths, University of London and has a First Class in Graphic Media from UCA. Before finding her calling as a copywriter, she worked for over a decade in the creative industry as a graphic designer and illustrator—but now it’s her words that paint an irresistible picture for her clients.

When not bringing your uncopyable message to light, you can spot this Renaissance woman flouncing around castles in the UK’s glorious Garden of England, or throwing colors on a canvas in her studio.

Sarah's Website

Check out Sarah's beautiful website at SarahCopy.com. You, too, can have a gorgeous website with copy that speaks to your ideal audience -- just like Sarah. Keep the 3 C's in mind when you're creating your web copy!

Connect With Sarah on Social

Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn

Connect with Sarah on Instagram

About Your Host

Melissa Brown, MD - Coach, Author, Speaker, Teacher, and Podcast Host.

After leaving medical practice in 2009, Melissa discovered the online world and never looked back! After coach certification, she began a healthy lifestyle coaching practice online and quickly fell in love with blogging, writing, and content marketing.

Melissa believes that coaches have the power to change the world. Unfortunately, too many coaches get discouraged by the amount of content they need to create for marketing their business and this can lead to overwhelm and giving up on their dreams. There's such a ripple effect when a dream dies, so Melissa is on a mission to help coaches and solopreneurs overcome the overwhelm when it comes to content creation so they keep those dreams alive.

Your content can impact massive amounts of people and positively change the world. You've got content in there inside you; let's get it out into the world.

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I've just found that the web copy project, in itself, it's just

a really beautiful way to help someone get super

clear on who they are and what they want. And that is,

ultimately, I think, what we're all about. And really,

the fact is, once you're clear on that, then anything, anything is possible,

anything can happen. It's a springboard for greater

visibility, for working with the right people,

for attracting the right people to you.

It positions you as an authority. When I work

with someone, I really look at the stories that make them unique,

the language they use, the words they use, and then

it's a balance for me between that and their

ideal clients.

Hello there, content creators. You're listening to The

She's Got Content Podcast, where it's all about creating content

for your coaching business. I'm your host,

Dr. Melissa Brown, and I'm here every week to help you get your

content out of your head, out of your heart, and out

there into the world, where that information and your services

can impact the most people.

Get ready to take notes today and then take action.

Content creators, let's dive in with today's episode

because you've got content to get out there. Welcome back

to another episode of The She's Got Content podcast.

I'm your host, Melissa Brown. Hey,

content creators, have I got a special episode for you today.

Sarah Whitbread, web copy and brand voice specialist,

is in the room all the way from across the pond in the lovely

UK countryside. I guarantee you will love

listening to Sarah's calm, soothing voice with her lovely British

accent. During today's show, Sarah is devoted to

helping you craft an unforgettable online presence so

you truly have the confidence to stand up and show the world who you

are. How does she do that? What's her secret to helping you unleash

your uncopyable uniqueness and get your message out there

to make a huge impact, fearless, unapologetic web

copy that captures your voice in a way no one

else can? Listen in as Sarah teaches you her

three C's of courageous web copy. Welcome to the She's

Got Content Podcast. Sarah hi. Lovely to be here.

Melissa. Oh, I could just listen to you talk all day.

Let's just jump right into it. Sarah, I know you describe yourself as

a Renaissance woman, and you've had a crazy ride on this road

to becoming a copywriter. Tell us some more about that. Tell us

about your journey. Yeah, to say

a crazy road actually is a bit of an understatement, although I think

it's probably quite typical of a lot of us entrepreneurs. My first

degree was in English, and I worked in various different fields,

so I've worked in publishing journalism bookselling

when my son was very young. He's 21 now, which is hard

to believe. I don't believe that. No, I'm very lucky.

He's. Yeah. Fantastic young man. Absolutely wonderful.

For the last decade, I was a graphic designer. I did a

little bit of freelancing and then in house, and that was really when

my love for design began to disappear and

it just wasn't creative enough for me anymore.

And I really missed writing. I think writing is well,

poppy, as I discovered, is absolutely my life's

calling, really. It's what I always should have been doing. When the Pandemic

hit, it was a good opportunity to take a step back and I made a

transition and started writing copy and working for various

fantastic women all across the world,

entrepreneurs, business owners, really exciting. And it just opened

my world right up. So it's interesting, there's so many

people who pivoted or started a business during

the Pandemic. So this was really your segue into

it? Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny because when I was designing,

I was always the person asked to write the captions for social

media posts or banners or anything we

were producing. And then I started to think,

hang on, I could actually make a living out of this

and learn the craft of copy as opposed to winging it,

which I really was at the time. Obviously, when the Pandemic hit, that was when

I really started looking into it. And yeah, I studied under some really

fantastic people. Theresa Corcoran, for example, who, obviously we

both know. And Alex Catoni.

Laura Bell Gray. Stefan, Georgia.

I'm not a person who does things by half. Yeah, it sounds like you

jumped right in there. Yeah, I really learned from

all the greats. Absolutely. And from

that, really, I discovered that web copy was my thing. That's exactly what

I really gravitated towards and loved. And having

a website is such an important thing, especially for the coaches

that are listening today. So I'm excited to hear more

about that. But first, around the

time that you started to make this pivot, I know

that you got really sick. Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, that's right, yeah, crazy time. And I

look back now and it's quite hard to believe, really, but so, September 2021,

I was feeling really unwell. It was a Saturday,

nothing particularly unusual happening, and had

tremendous chest pains and I

was rushed to hospital. They did a bunch of tests and

they told me at that time, it's absolutely impossible, it can't be your heart.

You're relatively young. I'm in my nearly officially

mid 40s, so I came home, obviously got on with my

life and just put it down to bizarre experience.

And then the same thing happened in December.

It could almost be comical if it wasn't quite so serious.

So I was at my parents house wrapping Christmas present

for my boyfriend, which happened to be a pizza oven, which was

obviously extremely heavy, and I carried it to the car without

realizing, obviously I shouldn't have been doing this, and then bang, it hit me.

And that time the paramedics caught it on the ECG

and I went into hospital and spent Christmas in hospital,

actually. And it's so scary. Yeah,

really frightening. And the upshot is

that now I'm in the care of an incredible team

at Guys Hospital. They have saved my life. I'm absolutely convinced of

that. And so the professor, as I

call him, gave me a call on New Year's Day and said,

I've looked at your results, I've looked at your MRI scans,

and I think you have a pretty rare autoimmune condition, which I won't go into

now. But essentially my heart was extremely inflamed.

It was really terrifying time.

So a lot of recuperation, a lot of resting.

Really very scary. But it has I would say it's

changed my outlook on everything. Absolutely.

And having started or made this transition to working

online, where you can work for yourself and make your own hours and

really just do your own thing, but probably has really impacted,

you can take better care of yourself if you're not in the

grind of the corporate world any longer.

It was almost like the universe or someone was telling

you that you needed to make that transition, and then this happened.

Boom. So I'm so glad that right now you're healthy.

Touch wood that all things are fine in that

department, so hopefully they continue. That's scary.

Thanks. Yeah, absolutely. It really

did transform everything about the way I work

with clients, the way I look at the work we do as entrepreneurs,

and really on a practical level

as well. I was able to keep working, so I just literally worked from my

bed for sort of six months, which was liberating and

terrifying all at the same time. But to keep independence is

super important. I think that story,

that's unique to. You, and I've never heard anyone tell that type of a

story. And how is it that you can pull

out those unique things about your clients?

How do you do that? Because I know that's, like, your thing is you

find how to make your clients web copy

stand out, be unique, and nobody can copy

them. Yeah. So really, I think number one is the designer

in me means that I look at web copy as an holistic whole.

So I look at the way the words and the images work together.

That's very much a UX part as well, in terms of user

experience. So I look at absolutely everything because it really doesn't

matter how effective the words are if the design doesn't work and vice

versa, it really has to work in tandem.

That's a really nice point. That's because you've got the right words,

but it's so hard to maneuver and move around on a website.

The design is the best word that comes to mind is a

mess because we've all seen those types of websites.

It's not effective. Your journey through all these different

things has really brought you here and made you so unique. I'm sorry to

interrupt. Keep going. Thank you. But yeah. I've just found

that the web copy project, in itself, it's just a really beautiful

way to help someone get super clear

on who they are and what they want. And that is, ultimately, I think,

what we're all about. And really, the fact is, once you're clear on

that, then anything is possible. Anything can

happen. It's a springboard for greater visibility,

for working with the right people,

for attracting the right people to you.

And also, like a cloak of it's almost

like a confidence. It positions you as an authority. Yeah.

When I work with someone, I think I've digressed to come

back to your question, but I think when I work with someone, I really look

at the stories that make them unique, much like the story

I just told you, but the stories that make them unique, the language

they use, the words they use. And then it's a balance

for me between that and their ideal clients.

I think Mackenzie mentioned on her podcast. With you,

mackenzie Armstrong, yeah. Episode 20. She talked about Pinterest.

Pinterest, that's right. Yes. Yeah. And she also talked

about getting that kind of ideal client language and appealing

to people so that really someone is flicking through your web copy,

or whatever copy it might be, for that matter, but your web copy. And they

see themselves and they think, this person understands me.

So that's how I do it. Because the exciting thing about web copy I

found, and that I've realized, is that it's an internal conversation

when you think about it, a website that really works. You're on there

and you're scrolling and you don't even think about it, but it holds your interest

and it's an internal dialogue. That's my A to achieve

that, it. Is so important to know who you're talking

to, because if you don't know who it is that you're trying to attract

or speak to in any kind of copy, whether it's web copy,

email, social media, it's not going to land where you want

it to land. So that's a really important point that you just brought up about

knowing who it is that you're speaking to. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think so much of that as well is about finding your niche,

really dialing down. I know we've talked about this before,

Melissa, but just really pulling back and thinking,

who do I want to serve and who is right for me?

And there are more than enough clients to go around. This is the thing

I don't think. People realize more than enough to go around.

Absolutely, yes. There's a lot of people in this world.

We talked about why web copy is important,

and you have a three C steps

to courageous web copy for the coaches

here. So let's talk a little bit about that, the three C's. And I'm talking

C's like the letter C, not the

ocean, the sea. So let's talk about

the three C's. Yeah. Not the beautiful ocean. That I love swimming in,

actually, frequently. Although I must say

it's the English Channel here. Okay, my three

C's. The first one is clear. So fundamentally,

this means if you're not clear on what you do, you can't expect

your clients to be. You need to be crystal

clear on who you are and what you want to achieve,

who you're talking to, all of those things. And that means your copy

needs it really does need to strike that balance between sounding like

you and appealing to this ideal client.

And I found the more becoming clear is just this incredible

springboard for everything else.

Confident. That's number two. So what

are your ambitions? What podcast do you want to be on? I go

through this with all of my clients. So who are your dream collaborators?

Because everything is absolutely possible

if we think of web copy as it's your stake in the ground.

It's where you stand up and you show the world who you are.

The first thing that somebody does when

they meet you at a party or they're interested in collaborating

with you or whatever you do, the first thing they do is Google you.

Go to your website if you have one. This is it. It needs to position

you as an authority. And my last is converting.

And we did touch on this because obviously it doesn't matter how good your

copy is, without the right user experience,

it isn't going to convert, it isn't going to work for you.

Yeah, so there we have it. Clear, confident, and converting.

Sarah, these are really important things, these three C's, and I

want to just unpack them for a minute, okay? Sure, go ahead.

I want to just hone in here on number one, being clear.

You talked about really knowing who you are as an entrepreneur,

who you are as a website owner. And that's

a little different than what a lot of coaches

and our listeners may have been told, because they're told,

go out and find out who your ideal client is. And that's important.

You do need to know that. But they leave out the piece about

themselves. It's like you can't be uniquely you or

authentic you. You have to really focus on the ideal

client, or at least many are taught that.

So your approach is somewhat unique, finding out

about your clients and what makes them unique, because that's going to make

the world of difference in the copy. So tell us about

that. How do you really get into the heads of your

clients, who they are?

Yeah, this is a really great point. So I

think you just take a moment, if you're listening to this, and think about

who are the brands you really admire, what do you love

about them, why do you buy from them, why do

you follow them on social media, all of these things.

And it's because they have a very strong brand voice and it

could be a brand voice for a product, or it could be that person,

that individual, the entrepreneur or business of any description.

And so when I'm working with somebody, we go really deep

into what makes them tick. So it's really more

than just the words that I would pull from them

to use and splash all over their copy and their messaging

that we would use together. It's about

what legacy they want to leave behind at the core,

at their very core. Who are they, their values,

their hobbies? Never really been fond of the word hobbies. I'm not sure why,

but their hobbies, their interests, their everything.

And that's not to say that you need to let it all

hang out. That's not to say you have to give everything of yourself

away online. You absolutely don't. But I think the fundamental

thing is you need to be true to yourself and you need to

be absolutely clear on what you want your service to achieve.

And the thing is, if you're not clear, we can work together.

And in that process, it will come together for you. Because I

think writing copy when you're writing for yourself, I absolutely

cannot stand writing my own copy. It's so difficult.

It's so incredibly difficult. But I think when you

have somebody who can really pull that out of you, that's really

important. That is a really good point, because when you're so

in the weeds with your own stuff, if you will,

it's really hard to write that copy. It is. People do

it, but you're a copywriter. And even you say that

it's not that easy to do it for yourself. It's so much easier to be

looking at someone and being able to ask

the questions, reflect off of them what they're saying,

and then use that to create this unique,

uncopyable website. Nobody else has

the same exact values,

hobbies, interest stories I'm

sure you probably pull in. Also, what are the words that

they use? Exactly. Or phrases

and those sorts of things make that person unique.

But it also makes the web copy totally unique.

Exactly. I would also say it might sound trivial,

but it is also things like pop culture references,

what you watch on TV, what music you listen

to, everything. All of those things. Just giving

an element of being of a human side. Oh,

that is so interesting because just in

the last few days, I've been involved in this challenge, three day challenge

online, and the hostess is obsessed

with Backstreet Boys. It's like her thing.

It's all about the Backstreet Boys and Backstreet Boy.

Trivia. It really makes her unique.

Nobody can copy that. Oh, how funny. Yeah.

My mom actually, she loved the Backstreet Boys. I wouldn't say she was

an obsessive. My mom has fantastic taste in music. Yeah, the Backstreet

Boys, 20 years ago. It makes me think of

her. But this is the thing, and it's exactly that. That's why we're

having this conversation because if you're flicking, you're scrolling

through somebody's site and you see these references,

it may or may not repel somebody. But I think we're

so caught in the fear of saying the right thing. We're so caught in

the fear of projecting the right image of what we should be and how we

should show up, especially as women.

I think these crazy kind of entrepreneurial

shoulds there are going to be people that really

resonate with your words. So it's just important to stand up and say

who you are. And I think that really is fundamentally about being clear on your

message. That goes back to being unapologetic.

I can't please everybody. You want to attract the people

who are meant to work with you. There will

be people that you repel. There may be people that absolutely hate the

Backstreet Boys and they are probably not on this lady's

challenge, but that's really where being

authentic is important and it matters. It really

matters. So being clear about who you are, being clear about

who you're trying to attract, what you're trying to do,

and what is it that Marisa Corcoran always says?

The best copy can't fix a muddied message.

Yeah, absolutely. So being really clear with

that message about who you are, who you're trying to attract and what you're trying

to do is so important. And when you were talking about the

second C, being confident, you said something about collaborations.

The big thing nowadays is being collaborative collaboration,

not competition. And when you're really confident with your web

copy, I think that really attracts other collaborators

too. Right? Yeah, absolutely.

You're quite right about that. And I think this really comes back to,

again, having the right words just to appeal to those people

that you really want to work with and not being afraid, as we said,

to repel the people that you don't, essentially.

Exactly, yes. And when we're talking about confidence,

also, one of the things that I think a lot of

people, entrepreneurs, online, business owners,

struggle with is impostor syndrome and being

afraid to put out there really their authentic self.

What I'm hearing you say is, it is so important to really know who

you are, be clear, number one, and then just be confident and

stand in your authenticity. And that confidence will

actually help you with the number three C, the converting

C. So how does that talk to us

about this kind of aspect? Do you

sometimes get pushback from some of your clients who you

might think that there's really something so unique and great

that's going to be attractive, but they may push back on

things like, I don't want to be seen as an imposter here.

You know what I'm saying? I don't know if I explain that.

Yeah, I understand. And I think it's funny, actually,

because last year at some point, I was listening to Michelle

Obama's podcast and she was talking about suffering

from impostor syndrome for decades,

even now. And I found it really shocking. And then

I thought, why? Why am I finding this so surprising?

Because the fact is, I think, as women, so many of us find ourselves thinking,

making excuses, just thinking, we can't do this.

I'm not learned enough in this field, or I'm not experienced enough

or I'm not good enough or I'm whatever it might be.

And I think especially when it comes to coaches

and your audience, it's more important than ever,

I think, to walk your talk and to present

yourself in the way that your ideal clients would.

And that's all part of the conversion. That's where

the confidence leads to the conversion as well,

because it is all about yeah, I do have pushback,

and I have had pushback from clients, for sure.

And much of it is about explaining,

asking people, really to step outside their comfort zone

and challenge themselves in what they think they can achieve.

And I do think the attitude that I have with this has come

largely from obviously don't need to go back over it again,

but being quite so unwell 18 months

ago, this feeling of, if time runs out, what are you

leaving behind? And for coaches,

especially, I think it's very important that they think that they realize that

this is what their audience needs from them. They need this authenticity.

I think that answers to your question. No, that's a very good point.

I love that example with the Michelle Obama interview. I got to

go listen to her, not interview her podcast. It's so good,

honestly. Yeah, it is great. She's such a likable,

relatable person. Yeah. Love her. Yeah, she's fantastic.

If Michelle Obama can have those doubts and those fears

creep in of who am I to do this? Or who

am I to say this? It's a mind shift that

we, especially women, just need to say,

okay, this is normal to feel this way. I'm doing it anyway.

Just put it out there. And a lot of times, I think people

think women especially, again, confidence will come

later. I'll put it out there later when I'm confident.

But it's the other way around. Put that confident shit out there now

and live up to it. Own it. Own it.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Unapologetic. Rachel Luna has her book, permission to

offend it's. Okay, if you think I can't put this out there

because it's going to offend someone,

read that book, and I'll put that in the show notes because

I think that is a game changer book. Okay? So let's segue

into converting. So why don't you

just in case somebody doesn't understand what that word means,

just give us a down and dirty definition of converting.

Down and dirty. Okay. Yeah.

When my sons were young, I was a bookseller for a number of years,

and our conversion rate essentially was

the number of people that came through the door and bought

a book as opposed to just having a lovely browse.

Honestly, I love browsing in the bookshop. Oh, me too. And leaving.

And that's really about conversion. It's the number of people that come to your

site having a poke around all the different pages

and get a feel for you and leave, opposed to the ones who

come back repeatedly or sign up for

your freebie or your service or whatever it might be.

The ones that actually buy into what you have to sell.

If your web copy is clear, you know

your message, you know who you are, who you're trying to attract and what you

want them to do, and you're confident in that. Web copy,

then conversions or having people show up,

click something, sign up for your lead magnet is really the

object. You want somebody to do something, not just,

oh, that's nice, and then click away. Yeah, absolutely.

Because the fascinating thing is that it can take somebody.

This is something I do find with clients, actually,

and I think entrepreneurs, business owners in general, because when

you spend so much time creating something,

creating a piece of content, creating a lead magnet

or your product, whatever it might be on any scale,

as soon as we put ourselves out there, we then want and expect it

to convert. And it can take somebody.

I'm trying to remember the statistic now, but it could be something like,

on average, 38 touch points, 38 separate

visits to your site, to your social media, to your Facebook

page, your Instagram page, one of your emails,

anything before they actually then purchase from

you, which is crazy when you think about it. In this day

yeah. In this day and age of everything being so instant.

We're talking about days, weeks, months of building a

relationship with somebody. Yeah. So it's funny,

I almost like to think of it as if you put your house on the

market so somebody comes around,

you want people to come in, look at every single room

browse, decide that they absolutely love it, that they've fallen

in love with it, and then they walk away with it. And I almost feel

that's how your website should be has

multiple pages, multiple facets, perhaps, but they're

all engaging and they all, as a whole, add up to something that make

your ideal client want to buy from you. All in love with you. Yeah.

You swept them off their feet, essentially. I love that.

So, yeah, if you're selling a house, you want them to

come in, they want to look around.

You don't want them to look around and say, no, not for me, I'm out

of here, and not even look at the whole place. Oh,

that's a beautiful analogy. All right, so the three C's.

I just think this is really so beautiful, and I think

that our listeners, the coaches here, are just going to

love this. So the three C's of being clear,

confident, and converting you want to think of those three

things when you're writing your web copy. Sarah, this has just been

so great. I know people are going to want to know more

from you. Where can they find you? How can they connect deeper

with you? So, number one, Melissa,

I would say, because I don't know about you, but I absolutely love a juicy

swipe file. They always seem slightly naughty

to me, as if you're peeking behind the curtain. I love that.

But essentially, a swipe file is one of the best ways

to grab instant inspiration for your business.

And my stand up and sell out swipe files are a

web copy mini masterclass, and they're jammed, packed full of before

and afters, so you can see a website before

I collaborated and after. And you can pick that up

at www.sarahcopy.com.

Swipe. Beautiful.

Thank you. I have a copy of this, and I have to

tell you, it is so juicy.

It's great. So everybody's going to want to run over there

to Saracopy.com Swipe. I will put that in the

show notes so you'll be able to get over to Sarah's website and

grab that. And what social

media are you? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn,

so you can find me. Sarah Whitbread. I'm on LinkedIn

and also Instagram as well. Okay.

Yeah. All right, great. I will put those links as well

into the show. Thank you. Okay.

Thank you so much, Sarah. It has been a pleasure to have you

here, and I just can't wait to hear all

the great feedback because I know that there's going to be a lot of

comments about this episode because you just gave us a

whole ton of great information.

Thank you. I absolutely loved it. Melissa, I absolutely love

the work that you do. I think you're fantastic. So thank you so much

for having me. All right, thanks so much.

And thank you so much, listeners, for being here another week.

And until next week, make sure that you're getting your copy

out there because you've got a message and you've got copy to get out

there. Bye bye. Thank you for tuning in to

this episode of the She's Got Content podcast.

I hope you got at least one nugget to take action on this week.

If you got value from today's episode, I would be so grateful.

When you leave a five star rating wherever you listen to podcast,

it only takes a second and it really helps me get my message out to

impact even more people so they can, in turn, keep the ripple

going. If you're listening on Apple podcast and leave

a review of the show, it would really make my day. And you just might

receive a shout out on the show as my content creator of the week

when I read out your review. And last but never least,

if you want an endless supply of just right ideas for content you

can write about for your blog. Post your emails, your videos,

podcast, episodes, all the content things. Then you want

to head over to my website@cheescocontent.com

content and pick up your free workbook. Never run out of content ideas.

Look for that link in the Show Notes today along with the other links

mentioned in today's episode. Until next time,

content creators. You've got an audience waiting to hear from you and you've got content

to share with them. Stop being the best kept secret and make