While we usually dive deep into the intricacies of taxes in Ireland, today's episode takes a slightly different turn. The emotional and psychological aspects of moving back to Ireland are often a second thought behind the logistics and planning of getting back. Prioritising and planning for the emotional is where James Parnell can help.

James is a life coach who specializes in the neuroscience of performance and is an adventure enthusiast. James spent 16 years in Sydney before returning to Dublin and has since become a voice for many returning expats through his articles in The Irish Times and appearances on various Irish media. He's also the author of "A New Dawn in Ireland," where he shares his personal journey and the broader impacts of relocating back to Ireland.

In this episode, we discuss not just the logistics but the emotional roller coaster that accompanies the decision to move back home. Whether you're contemplating a move or in the midst of one, James's insights into managing expectations and emotions are invaluable.

Main Topics discussed in this episode:

1. The emotional challenges and rewards of returning to Ireland after an extended period abroad.
2. Practical advice for those considering a move back home, focusing on mental and emotional preparation.
3. Insights into how changing environments can impact personal and family dynamics.
4. Strategies to help make the transition smoother and more fulfilling.

See James Parnell's Work

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameseparnell/?originalSubdomain=ie

Buy the book: https://anewdawninireland.com/clients/thebook/sale/

The Wellbeing Gym: https://thewellbeinggym.com/

*****

If you loved this episode or have a similar story, we'd love to hear from you! You can get in touch with us directly at [email protected] or leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Taxbytes for Expats is brought to you by ExpatTaxes.ie. If you're considering moving to or from Ireland and would like support with your taxes, book a consultation today: https://expattaxes.ie/book-a-consult/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=CaptivateFM&utm_campaign=episode.

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Hi everyone, welcome to this episode of tax bites

for expats. Admittedly, this episode is not going to be so much

about tax and more about the emotional impacts

of making a decision to move back to Ireland, and particularly

from when the move is from Australia to Ireland. We're going

to talk to James Parnell. And James moved

back to Dublin after having spent 16 years in

Sydney, who's a life coach and a self confessed

neuroscience performance and adventure nerd. Very

interesting guy to speak with. He's published several

articles in the Irish Times about his experience relocating back to

Ireland. He's appeared on RTE, AFM and News talk, and he's

even participated in irish government forums helping

emigrants return back to Ireland. He recently released a new book

which is called a new dawn in Ireland. It was released late last year.

It's all about his return home and returning home generally, and

the impacts that he can see are relevant for people who are

making the move. James, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks Stephanie,

for having me. Yeah, it's great to have you on. So before we start to

record, we were talking about how this is, and probably people who listen to

the podcast generally will get this. This topic,

although it's not about tax, is one that I'm very keen

to talk about. So what is that? You know, the difficulty of the move,

the fear of a move, you know, should we, shouldn't we do this? And

that's right up your alley. So it's great to have you with us. But before

we jump into talking about, you know, the topic, generally,

tell us and our listeners a little bit about yourself. I gave you a

bio, but they never do full justice to the story.

Yeah, well, I suppose I'll give a quick summary of my journey.

So obviously, born in Dublin in

74, in 2000, I left with Anne Marie, who's

my then girlfriend, glad to say she's now my wife. And we headed

off to Sydney. Very excited for a year, but I think we knew in

our hearts that it might be longer. And

so we really enjoyed Sydney. We settled

there, we lived there for 16 years. And then

in 2016 we decided to return to Ireland. So

back almost eight years now. And, you know, it's a

brand new chapter. I guess Anne

Marie was probably the one who settled the

quickest. It took me a while longer, so I started

just. I had never kept a diary or anything like that, but I started

to really explore how my mind was

working. Started keeping a diary and a journal, ended up writing in the Irish Times,

did a life coaching qualification and you know,

almost viewed it as a new chapter in my life and really kind of reinvented

myself, started a new business and everything else. So it's been. It's been quite an

interesting because my background was banking and software and

you know, I still work in that area as a project manager, but I went

a lot more inside myself I suppose, throughout

this as a way to really settle back

in and overcome the challenge because it is an

emotional roller coaster. Yeah, you know, and you really have to have

a good mindset and a good heart set to be honest, you have to have

your heart set on it first and then your mindset will follow.

So that's a bit about me and you know, that's how I ended up, you

know, exploring neuroscience, how the brain works and everything else just

fascinates me and it's really cool. The power that we

have to handle our emotional states and our mental states. You

know, we're a lot more aware of that these days, aren't we? You know, you

think back to I grew up in eighties Ireland, we're a lot more cognizant

now and able to talk about things like that. I suppose one of the things

I would say, and I'd be happy for you to agree or disagree with

me is even though we're probably having this discussion in the

context of a move from Australia to Ireland by an irish person, it struck

me the other day, surely it's not just irish people who find it difficult to

emigrate, you know, it's a difficult thing to do regardless of where you're moving

from where you're going to. I would say it's difficult to return

to a country you grew up in and left and it's equally difficult to go

and move to a new country for a first time. So hopefully what

we're talking about, even though it might be in the context of Australia to Ireland

or whatever direction it is, is relevant broadly. Would you agree with that, do

you think? Irish people, we have this, are we

different from other nations in terms of finding it difficult? And that eternal

question of should I or shouldn't I? Yeah, it's an interesting one. I don't

necessarily think that we're that much different to other

nations. I mean, I think countries, you know, people from countries like to think

that they're very different than they do, like, in terms of their culture and everything,

but that. But that journey, like, it's a lot easier to emigrate

because a, you're, you know, you're. The first time, you're younger,

you're in that age probably, where you're seeking new

pastures, you know, you're like a pioneer of sorts. You've got that

mindset of openness and you're open to new ideas. The challenge,

I think, with returning home is

that your expectations for one sometimes

are that it'll be really easy, it's really comfortable. You know, it. It's not

always that. And even your brain development, like, I mean, I was 40, around

40 when we. When we returned. Like, you're. You're more stuck

in your ways. You're less likely to be creating new neural

pathways and less. Yeah, likely to be. You're more

resistant to change. You know, you're less. You're more risk averse,

all of those things. You're at the stage in life where you really want to

settle. And I think, like, for us, it's a natural thing when you have

children to really think about that. I mean, we lived opposite a nursing

home, so that made me think a lot about where I wanted to end up,

you know? So, yeah, so I don't. I don't think necessarily, going back to your

question, I don't necessarily think this is just an irish thing,

although Ireland is a country of immigration. It is,

I think, probably, given the countries that irish people go to, like

Australia, predominantly Canada, they're great countries. And it's.

It's harder sometimes to return to Ireland

because it can feel smaller, more restrictive and things like that. So maybe

that is a challenge, but I don't think it's unique to Ireland. I

think it depends on the two countries that you're moving between. Yeah, I agree.

Yeah. So many things we could talk about. And I know you are

very keen and have some fantastic tips to give

people where to start, I mean, in terms of

helping and working with clients who are on a journey to making a decision.

Maybe talk to me generally about what you experience

when you work with clients. The problems you encounter and the solutions you offer.

If there's dilemmas there. What problems do people bring to you

normally? Well, probably the first thing I'd observe is how

overwhelmed and stressed people can be at the early

stage of making the decision. And sometimes

they get distracted and they get involved in a lot of noise.

That's irrelevant. Okay, so let me explain it.

In the book. I use this acronym, which is adapters, which is the eight

phases, okay? So adapters stands for awareness. You become

aware that maybe you want to move home, and then you move into a

phase where you're really thinking about it, which is the decision. And then anchoring is

after you've made the decision, you need to anchor your decision and set it

in stone by laying down some milestones or something.

That means you're totally committed, and then you plan gain

traction, you orient yourself, reintegrate, and hopefully

at the end you shine. Right, so that's adapters. Right? But the first couple of

stages of thinking about it, becoming aware and thinking about it,

a lot of people are getting in their head and they're thinking about, how would

we do this? What do we need to do? How that is all

irrelevant. You know, I remember one time

I wanted to go to New York. We were in Sydney, and I said to

Anne Marie, I'd love to go to New York. And immediately we had one child,

and she said, how would we get the pram or the

boogie onto the plane? And I was like,

let's. Let's just. Let's book a flight first. Let's just

decide if we want to go first. Right. So, like, you're right. That was

straight to logistics. Right. So it's natural, though. It's absolutely

natural. Right? Again, you're looking for problems, risks and stuff like that.

I mean, I should know. I'm a project manager, and I look for too many

risks and stuff like that. But the problem is that you actually need

quietness and space and silence, and it's

like, you need to go inside, right? So what part of

what I do is I split it very cleanly. There are two types

of people. There are two stages. There are the

undecided, and they're really in a difficult

place, okay? And they need the space, and they need to be in their

heart. You need to get out of their head, and they need to trust their

gut. Right? I came across a quote the other day, and it was something

like, told you so, your intuition. Right? And it's so true.

Right. Your intuition is never wrong. Right. You got to trust it. But there's very

practical coaching questions and very practical exercises

that you can do and that we provide in our courses, and some of them

are in the book, to really get the truth out

of yourself. One of the things myself and Anne Marie did that I came

across when I was doing an innovation course was just a life canvas, and it

was all about your values and stuff, but it was basically you on a page

with a few questions. And I did it, and I got Anne Marie to do

it separately. So as a couple, you do it separately, and then you compare your

answers. And it's a really interesting exercise to do as a couple because you

realize, like, I realize stuff about Anne Marie's dreams and our values that

I never knew, let's say. And she realized stuff about me,

and we had a conversation about it, and this was leading up to the decision.

Like, we weren't doing this to make the decision, but it was around the same

time, you know, so there's very practical,

pragmatic, grounded steps that you can do

to get into that fuzzy area. And then once you

decide, then you can start to figure it out. The

fact is, you can figure it out if you want to do it.

We can all figure it out. We're resilient. You know, we're very, like,

humans are problem solvers. So the tax, the

finance, the house, the mortgage. Yeah, they're challenging, don't

get me wrong, but they are impossible if you're not

committed. And that is the problem. Like, what I'm observing with

a lot of, like, you know, groups that I see, for example, or communities

on Facebook, for example, is people asking lots of questions. And you can tell

by the questions they're asking they don't want to go or they're not sure

yet. That's. That's the first step, is just reduce the

noise, find some space, and sometimes just sit on it. Like, you

know, I was getting stressed with the decision. We were due to go home in

Ireland for a holiday, and I was, like, trying to make the decision, like, so

that this trip, you know, we could go on this trip because I'd already booked

the flights. And I remember I chatted to a friend of mine in work, and

he said, james, just relax. Just sit on it. The decision will make itself.

You just keep letting it. Let it percolate. Keep asking the questions. You know,

don't park it. Keep asking the questions, but don't rush it. Like, you

know, because it is a bit of a journey. And I think

what's funny in the context of this, like, Australia back to

Ireland conversation is, I mean, I think our story

is very common, so it doesn't even need to be under the context of it

being. Our story is we're going for a year

and then five years, six years later, then all of a sudden,

you're having your first child, potentially, and then all

of a sudden, your life changes dramatically in a short space of time.

So you've kind of flip flopped between, we want to

stay here, we don't want to stay here. What do we want? And I see

it consistently with clients where different life events,

and it could be maybe not something as joyous as a baby or it

could be the passing of a parent or an ill parent or, you know, an

ill family member. That's something I see as being common,

and it's my experience. What was your experience like? What did you and Anne Marie

go through that kind of made you go, yeah, we're going back to Ireland?

Yeah, I think it was the typical experience, I guess. So.

Both our parents were healthy

and we had our first child,

Ava, in. But I got this right,

2008. And

so we had a couple of trips from the parents, and luckily

enough, my parents came for three months one time, and it

was fantastic. And then Annemarie's father

got sick, he got cancer and he passed

away. Anne. That changed, I guess,

something for Anne Marie. So, you know,

and she probably started to think about it

at that point. So there was a bit of a natural chronology. You know, kids

make you think about it. That that

event definitely made Amariath think about it.

And living across from the nursing home, like, you

know, our house was directly across, right? So, you know, it's morbid, right?

But I was seeing people going in and not coming out, and I was like,

do I want to spend the rest of my life here?

And that sort of thing. So definitely that that grew the

awareness. And then we were lucky enough like that we

were coming home most, most years, probably on average, every year and a half, you

know, over the time we were there. So we had lot, like lots of trips

home. But I think that definitely changed something for Anne

Marie. I was pretty open.

I loved the lifestyle and I still miss Sydney. You know, I

love the surfing. I loved. I loved everything. Like, I had a great lifestyle,

but still I wasn't dependent on it. I kind of had enough

confidence to say I could make a good life in

Ireland as well. So we came home to a friend's wedding

and a word of advice, don't do this. Right. But we had a

great wedding down in, I think it was Carlos somewhere,

caught up with loads of friends. And the next day we're driving back to

Dublin from the wedding, and first time in ages, we had

no kids with us. And we were able to chat and we made the decision

on the way back. Probably not the best emotional state,

because what often happens is you feel really

sad. You're coming towards. You're about to fly back to Sydney, and it's a very,

very emotional time. You know, it's very, like. There's

a. It's like a sick feeling in your tummy, you know? And then when you

go back to Sydney or your home for a few weeks, you get over that

and you go back into the routine. Right. So I would say we

probably should have done that, but I don't think it would have made a difference

to the decision. So we were committed then. You know what? It's funny you say

that. I still get this weird reaction every time I walk through

arrivals in Dublin airport, because it's a throwback to when we

used to come back from Australia and your parents or your family are there. And

now I'm a bit of a gibbering wreck. I watch other families. It's a

special place, but it's also a miserable place if you go

upstairs to departures and watch people saying the goodbye.

And that's exactly it. And this is something that I think

is unique to. I would kind of say, you know, Australia,

New Zealand and Ireland, is that it's such a long way

that those goodbyes are very hard.

And then even the phone calls when you've landed in

Sydney to let them know you're there, okay, are difficult because now you can't find

a time to pick up the phone and say, I'm back, because they're in bed.

It's just. It's hard. It's hard. You can understand why

people find it difficult and make those decisions in the car on the way back

from Carlos. Yeah, definitely. And, like, you know, when Ann Marie's dad was.

Was sick, you know, she didn't know. September, when we flew back, we were here

in August, we flew back in September. And she didn't know when she

was gonna. Or whether she was gonna see him again. And in

fact, she. She ended up taking our youngest,

James Junior, back, and I stayed in Sydney with the girls and

she, rather than. This was a conscious decision. We knew that if she

flew back to take care of him while he was, you

know, he was really sick, that she wouldn't be able to

go to his funeral. So that was a really

weird thing, you know, like, you know, we basically had a

choice. We go back now and spend some time with him while he's. While he's

alive and take care of him and go out and bring him out and that

sort of stuff. We both had work and everything else

but the australian distance, you know, you're not. You're not

hopping back and forth like you are if you're in London or something. Like it's.

It's an extra challenge. It's. It's. It's a factor in the decision,

isn't it? In any decision you make? It's. It's a factor. Yeah.

So to kind of get then, I suppose, to some of the logistical sides of

it. And I'd like to come back to this because I think this is very

relevant to people generally listening.

Logistically, how did you find the move? I mean, I know it's a few years

behind you now, but you help people with this and you're a project manager, so.

Yeah, well, interestingly, like, we made it very

exciting, so we did everything pretty well, but we did make mistakes

and they're still loose ends. Like, I pretty sure I still have a tax return

that I haven't done, you know what I mean? Or two maybe,

you know, but we did, like, we had three kids

and we had a house to sell and we decided that we were going

to make it exciting. We're going to have a countdown for them and

try and, you know, really build up the fact that we were, you know,

that this was a new adventure and we were excited by it, genuinely. But we

just wanted to make sure that the. That the kids, you know, went

upset. And they were a good age because they were eight, six and three respectively,

so they weren't too old. But that is one tip I'd give for

parents is to make this an adventure, get them on board and everything else. But

in terms of logistics, we were quite lucky because we had a

house and we had equity. So some of the things were easier

for us in terms of getting a mortgage.

We actually bought our house on December 23

without even visiting it. We bought it from Sydney. I got my sister, who had

three kids. The house was around the corner from where she lived. She went, and

we didn't overthink it. We basically wanted south facing with

some. With some sun near, near the coast.

And I'm in Malahoyd in Dublin. And we said we weren't

going to be too fussy, and we're not that fussy. The house doesn't have to

be a really perfect house. She went, she said,

yeah, I would live here with three kids and that was good enough for us.

So we were the last ones to enter our house. When we came home, all

our families had been through the house. Your very trust had checked it out. We

were told totally trusting, right. But, you know, like, it's really like, you know,

don't. I mean, yeah, house is a big decision, but, like, you're going to have

enough stresses. Right. So the important thing is, like, to

try and make it as easy on yourself as possible. And if you

have the money, or if you can spare the money to do that, like, you

know, then, then do it. Not everyone's in that position, you know, but

if you can do, try and make it the first year easy

for yourself and, you know, we did spend a fair amount

of money in the first year. More, definitely more. Like, I was shocked at the

end of the year. I did the finances. I was like, that was too much.

But we were happy. You know, it's a different way.

But we found that was very helpful. So I think one

of the concerns I had, I'm not sure if it was something you shared when

you came back was something like in Australia where we were living,

there was playgrounds on every corner. There was everywhere.

And our youngest son, our eldest son

was at the age where he loved that. So when we came back, we specifically

looked for rentals that were near playgrounds because I thought, well, at least if we've

got a playground near us, we're somewhat copying something that

felt it was valuable to us when we lived there, those little things.

And sometimes. Exactly. You might spend a bit more money, maybe you don't

necessarily have, but, you know, try and make whatever you can

as easy as possible insofar as you can. I think that's what you're saying. That's

a really good tip. That's exactly it. You've said it better than, I mean,

I would say make a list of the top five things that you

love about your current life and try and, you know,

make them happen in Ireland. Like, it is extra

challenging, you know, for example, outdoor lifestyle. Right. That just happens

in Sydney. You don't even have to think. Right? No. So you're

out in the sun, you're just drawn outdoors and you're in

water. So that's why water was so important to me.

And that feeling of openness, like, if I'm in

a landlocked area, I feel constricted.

So that was really, really important for me. So we kind of did that

without doing it consciously, like, you know what I mean? That's a really good idea,

is like, pick the things that are important. And I'll tell you what, it won't

be. It won't be the furniture in your house, it won't be the weather, the

kitchen needs a reno. Yeah, right. It'll be outside stuff.

Because one thing I've realized is that, like, all the healthy habits,

I'm so glad we had a good bit of time in Sydney to build up

healthy lifestyle habits, like being an outdoors people, loving surfing, loving the

water, all that. Because when you come back, you really have

to plan and think ahead. There's an extra barrier to continue

those habits. So I would really think about that.

Like what? People can complain that the lifestyle in Ireland is not great

and all the rest, it's fine. You just have to work harder.

Yeah, yeah. You know, you just have to make it happen, you know? So think

about that and think about, like, you know, as you said, if you want to

live near playgrounds, if you want to live near a beach or you want to

live near the mountains, what is it that you like that gets you out? Yeah.

Think about that. Like, location wise, I'm interested as well. To hear your

thoughts on this. One of the observations we had, maybe this was

probably my myopic view. We went to Perth again, very,

very outdoor lifestyle. We became outdoorsy people

because we didn't have kids at that point. It was easier and just all, you

know, got into road cycling and all these different things. And I think I had

stuck in my head that the Dublin or Ireland I

left in 2011, when we left was the Ireland I

was coming back to. My experience, our experience was

that, no, there was sportives, there was running

events, there was now people sea swimming. There's

so many people hiking. What I'm saying, in a long winded way is Ireland

has become a healthier place than it was in the middle of the two

thousands, let's say. And our experience when we came back from

Australia was that, no, it's not identical to Perth in terms of how

active everyone is, but it's also not identical to how it was when you left

us. Did you notice that changes in Ireland? I mean, you'd been away for

longer than we had been. Yeah. I can't say I consciously

noticed this. But the other interesting point about that

is once you're tuned into that sort of stuff and on the

lookout for the lifestyle that you're used to, you know, your brain does a

magic thing, you know, where it's, you know, it's actually filtering

data all the time. So it's only filtering for what you're interested in.

So, you know, it's like when Henri became

pregnant, everybody we looked at was pregnant because babies was the

thing, you know, that we. It's a classic brain thing. Or, you know, if you

like a BMW, everyone drives a BMW if you're on the lookout for one, you

know, boss, like, definitely the whole world is

more conscious of. Of health than being outdoors and mental health,

physical health and everything else. And, you know, the facilities in

Ireland, you know, are much better than

they were years ago. You know, I think the GAA

hoovers up, like, you know, all the kids are involved in the GAA,

and it's a great thing. Some people think it's. It's a bit. It's a bit

too dominant, you know, compared to some of the sports and things like that. But

there's so many things in Ireland, and I think once. Once you are looking at

it in with new eyes, if you're coming back and you're looking at it

with some fresh eyes, then it's got everything that you

want, you know? So, yeah, it's a great place. I

think something you said earlier on resonate with me as well, and it's probably good

to say it because I'm sure it's much more common than people might

realize, is that it's very rare to have a

couple who are living away from their home. Like, let's say they're both from

Ireland. Feel identical, pull at

identical, time to come back. You kind of alluded to that.

So did you and Anne Marie, like, was there one of you lagging and

one leading, or was it both? You both made your mind up, this is what

we're doing. Like, what was the experience there? I would

probably say Anne Marie slightly led,

but I definitely wasn't. You know,

I was open to it. Maybe I'm easily excitable.

I don't know. So I would say she definitely. She definitely led. And

one of the interesting things was, when we came back was, I remember driving home

with her one day and I was really struggling. Like, you know, I just. First

two years, you know, I just didn't like it. And

she. She was almost. She was almost crying with happiness

on the way home in the car one day, she was talking about, like, living.

Living in malahide and her brother and sister live here as well, and just the

everyday, you know, interactions in the shops and, like, being able to just drop

into her sister and all. I think it's probably slightly different for

mothers and for women to have that nest

nesting feeling, whereas. Whereas guys are just like, give me the beach, I'm happy,

you know, so probably led more by. By

her, but, you know, I know, like, other couples

who are still in Sydney, where there is that dilemma

where the one wants to go and the other one is

just doing everything that they can not to talk about it.

And that's a very, very tough one. It was easy for us

because we'll be happy as long as we're

together. That's it. We could be anywhere, in any country,

but that's not always the same for couples. And that, I

don't know how you solve that. That is a very difficult one. Like, you

know. Yeah, it is really difficult. And I think most

people who've kind of made the decision to come back, you probably have

conversations at different times where there's pros and cons, and

one of you is highlight the pros. And I

think the reality is, nowhere is perfect.

That's the thing. And that's the hardest part. That's the hardest

decision. Like, I often think to myself, what would life be like now if we

still lived in Australia? You can kind of play that game, but you

hit the nail of the head at the start. Like, once you've committed to the

decision, just commit to the decision. Yeah. And I would

also agree with you. I do think the first two years, like, I really wanted

to come back, and I found the first two years very hard. So, you know,

even when it's what you want, it's not always easy. Yeah.

It takes time. Would you ever see yourselves going

back to Australia? Yeah, I think not

permanently, but we had actually planned a

trip last year, and then we were all gonna go.

And then Anne Marie was like, you know what? I'm not actually that interested in

going back to Sydney because I've seen it, and I was really keen to see

my friend, so I was gonna go, but then some stuff

happened that prevented me from going, and we didn't

go. But I did this when I was doing the life coaching course, right? I

did this. They brought us through this visualization. They said, picture yourself in ten

years. You know, so you go up, you know, they basically a visualization,

close your eyes like a meditation, and you go up in the shaft of light,

and then you come back down to earth in ten years, right? So you got

to imagine this, and it's like, where are you landing? And I was like, I

did not want to land in Ireland. Like, I was like, I am not in

Ireland, right? I was just, like, refusing to land in Ireland, right? So this is

the first two years when I was unhappy and I had this picture. I'll have

a house in Italy or, you know, and I'll spend six months in Ireland in

the summer and then six months away. And that is still a bit of

a dream, like when the kids are, you know, don't want to know us anymore,

you know, myself and Anne Marie will, will do that. And Australia is

in, is in the picture then, like, definitely my part of my heart

is there. But, you know, going back to something you said

earlier to me about, you know, when people are stressed and overwhelmed about making decision

to come home and they're looking at the logistics and sometimes, you know, you're making

up stories because you don't really want to go, go home. Right.

I'm aware that now I'm home and I might be trying to convince

myself that I'm happy here. Right. So you, we all create a

story, right? And I would not allow myself

the time to have regrets or the thoughts. I'll not

go down the path of imagining a shadow life, as I call it, in

Australia. I try not to think about what I would be doing in

Australia because it's not a useful thought anymore. I'm

here, and my brother still lives there, so he kind of

shows me what I probably would be doing. Right. But also, the other thing

that's really important for couples and with kids, I think, to consider

is time goes really quickly. I know that's a

cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason. Right? And when you have grandparents or

your parents, one of the beautiful things I have to say this

about coming home last eight years is my parents are still, thank

God, healthy, and the time I've spent with

them has been beautiful. Ann Marie's mom actually passed

away eight weeks after we got home.

Like, when we were made the decision, she had plans. She was

living in an apartment. She had a spare bedroom. She was going to have the

girls to visit and all the rest. She got

diagnosed and then she passed away shortly after. And you

feel kind of robbed. Right. Like, that's life, you

know? And I'm not saying just come home just because, you know,

your parents are here or because the kids should be, you know, it's still

a difficult decision. All I'm saying is that window of time, you just

don't know how long it is, but it's not that long, you

know? So. Yeah, that's, that's, that's a big one as well.

You know, I completely agree. You're spot on. And, like,

you know, it's that phrase without sounding overly kind of, I

suppose, romantic about it. It's, you know, it's the little things in life that

actually become the big things it's. It's the cup of tea with your mam. And,

you know, my mother in law comes in, she brings in a bag of jam

buns every Wednesday, and my three year old sits up at the kitchen counter

and will eat them, you know, and delighted. And those are the

little things that for us sometimes. So it's the trade, isn't

it? So what's the trade off? The trade off was come home from work on

a Wednesday night and go, oh, it's nice tonight. Well, we sit outside and have

a barbecue. And now, granted, just get eaten alive by mosquitoes,

but that's. That's a different point. And, yeah, there's reality to every

picture, but, yeah, I think it's just, you know, what are you willing

to trade? That. That's the thing. You've got to trade something. But the

trade, I think it's that we sometimes think that, you know,

if you can have this utopia in either jurisdiction, I

don't actually think that exists. Yeah. But I suppose over time.

Yeah, every decision is easier. With time, every decision is easier.

That's it. But a key one, that trade

off is really important, right. For those moments, if you are trading off

financial security and you're just not going to be able to afford is to live

in Ireland, right, then the trade off probably isn't a practical one,

right. Or if you're trading off your happiness. But I

think there's very few people who cannot make a life

and cannot be happy in Ireland. I think if your happiness depends

on where you live, it's a bit of a sad state to be in, to

be honest with you, your financial security mice. But,

you know, I think that's the question you want

to ask. Like, I wouldn't advise anyone. Like, if someone

came to me now and said, you know, do you think I should come back

to Ireland? I would definitely ask them financial questions, you know, because I

wouldn't be telling people to come back, to come back, to struggle, to be starting

again. Don't, you know, I wouldn't be saying, come back with no savings or come

back, you know, to start saving for a mortgage. I'd say, no,

stay there and save for few years. So there's a. There's a sort of

a bar above which then, you know, you're in a

position to make that trade off decision. You know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly. And I think as well, you know, any move is

stressful and a little bit of planning can

reduce a lot of stress. So, you know, what you're saying. There is

plan, you know? Yeah, it's great to act with your heart. Yeah. You know,

you can't live on it. You can't live on emotion. You feel your kitchen

press, so you kind of have to be practical and honest at the

same time. You're absolutely correct. You know, the head and

the heart are working together. I mean, they're physically joined. Right. If, you

know, the neuroscience piece comes in again, your heart is sending

messages, neural messages, through your head and

vice versa. It's just the correct use

of the correct tool at the right time. Right. So

when you're making the decision, you're in your heart space,

and then it's total pragmatism. Like, then

you start to go to your head and you get your inner project

manager, your inner mindset person, and

you do sensible things. You know what

just struck me? They should work with you when they're making the heart decision and

with us when they're making the decision. Absolutely. Absolutely.

What does the book do for people? So what do people tell

you when they've read the book? I mean, I wish I'd had access to it

when we were making the move, but, yeah, what's the experience be? They kind of

say that, you know, they kind of say, you know, I wish I

had that book when I was. When I was making the decision. And

I think, like, my intention with the book is to bring them through the whole

journey. So at the start, give them the tools to make the right decision for

them and to give them some space to do that. So each chapter

has, like, an exercise to do at the end of it to really draw out

those. Those decisions at the start and then traction

throughout the thing. So the key things to do to anchor it and to

get it. To get it all done. So it brings you through the whole journey.

And I think, like, surprisingly, when I was writing it, you know, there's not that

many books about it, certainly not just for

irish people, like, with an irish context. But it is. It is a sort of

a generic book in some ways. You could use it to move to any country,

you know, but I think it's just people are looking for

some sort of comfort and at the end of the book, you know, just some

sort of picture of what life, you know, can be like and some sort of

hope as well, that you can make a life with. With children. So

it's. It's a very, you know, as I said, it combines the heart, but it's

also a very practical book. And at the end, you know, it's got it's got

the hope. So, yeah, the feedback has been great, and

yeah, I think I just want to get it out there really to help more

people. Yeah, no, I think it's brilliant, it's fantastic. I feel like we

could talk all day, all day. Maybe we'll do it again,

we'll have. To do it again. Not to have the closing word on

it, but just one point that you say there about people want a bit of

hope. So maybe, just as for my experience, which I don't share

too often in this form, because that's not the purpose of the podcast, but

the first winter we were back, we spent more time at the beach

in Ireland than we'd spent in Perth the previous summer. At the beach.

No way. Seriously? Yeah, so we used to get in the car,

so those beautiful sunny mornings that you get in Ireland,

where the kids go with their bucket and spades. And

the reality in Perth was we didn't go to the beach as often as

people who watch home and away think. So my point

there is, don't think you know the reality until you're living it,

because I didn't expect that we would become massive beachgoers, though, granted, we

live near the beach both here and same distance, actually. Both here, and then

what? We were in Perth, but no, we go to the beach way more here

than we did when we were in Australia. So, you know, just to your point,

don't make assumptions about the way it's going to be, because you don't actually know

that until you're living it and. You can make it whatever you want, you

know? Exactly. Yeah, there's a great graph actually, that shows that

Ireland has less rainfall than Sydney. Oh really? Yeah,

yeah. It's actually a myth that Ireland has more

rainfall. Right. But the problem is probably just lighter and more hours

maybe. Right, but in terms of depth, we just sprinkle it.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sprinkled across all the year rather than

the last few days have been. Definitely, we're up on that graph

this past few days. Well, you know, that's a good, it's a great

tip. And like when not to be again, too sad, but when,

when Annrie's man passed away, a friend of ours from Sydney sent us twelve

envelopes, right? Such a beautiful thing, rod and sending

sympathy card, she sent us an envelope with twelve little envelopes in it, and each

one was a day trip, and we had to pick an envelope out of the

jar or you out of the box and do that. So she

said, commit to doing this, take every fourth Saturday and do this. And we had

twelve day trips that were trips that she did when she was young with her

dad around Dublin. And we used to do that. We did that for a month.

But these are the sort of like the creativity there. I think

you appreciate it possibly, you know, when it's on your doorstep, you can

do it anytime, but maybe like you appreciated the beach there and,

you know, you used it, so that's all possible. Actually. The other thing

is, I have a friend who's actually just landed in Dublin. Yeah. And she's her

first time in Ireland. Right. I'm going to read you what she said to me.

Landed in Dublin yesterday. She said, I've just landed in Dublin now I'm waiting to

leave the plane. Wow. I can tell this is a stunning country already,

because this is brilliant. I just saw some very cute white sheep with

black faces and black feet in a very

green paddock out of the window of the plane.

Exactly. See, so there you see, it's fresh eyes

and I thought, I didn't even know we had sheep that, you know,

an airport. That's so true. Yeah. Yeah.

James, thank you so much. I really hope people check out your website. So

just to make sure that we're clear about that, that's a new Dawnina

Ireland.com. That'S it. The book of the same name.

And you have some fantastic contact details on your website

which we will drop into the show notes. And I think

my message would be for anyone in that stage of should we, shouldn't we? Who

needs a bit of guidance? He strike me as somebody who's a really, really good

person to have a chat with. So thank you so much for joining us. I

really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Beautiful. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to tax bytes for expats. Please do leave a

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in connection with the matters dealt with in this series. The material

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