Shownotes
Stop Trying Harder - guest Karyn Whitaker
Jenn wilson
“Being kind to ourselves. Being honest about what we need.”— Karyn Whitaker
Jenn Wilson is joined by guest Karyn Whitaker. Karyn Whitaker is a neurodivergent coach, disability advocate, and founder of Try Harder Is BS, where she helps people with ADHD, autism, chronic fatigue and other invisible disabilities build easier, more sustainable lives that work with their nervous systems.
Episode Overview
In this deeply resonant episode, Karyn joins Jenn to talk about the lifelong impact of being told to “try harder” while navigating undiagnosed neurodivergence, chronic fatigue, and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. She shares how years of masking, burnout cycles, people-pleasing, and internalised expectations shaped her career path — and how receiving her diagnoses finally gave language to her lived experience.
Karyn explains why traditional responses to burnout miss the mark, what nervous system regulation really means, and how embracing ease has changed every part of her life. She also speaks powerfully about inclusion, access, invisible disability advocacy, and challenging systems that rely on neurodivergent people pushing themselves beyond capacity.
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Connect with Karyn Whitaker
LinkedIn - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/karyn-whitaker-24482135
About Karyn Whitaker:
Karyn is the Founder of “Try Harder is BS.” She helps people whose brains work differently (and those who support them) learn strategies to calm the chaos in their heads so they can move from overwhelm to action without going via burnout.
She is also an ex‑nurse, ex‑social worker, and soon‑to‑be ex‑project manager. A recovering serial burnout, she lives with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, AuDHD, and dyslexia — alongside a lifelong feeling that she didn’t quite fit in. Now she is owning her uniqueness, and life is better than it has ever been.
Episode Takeaway
Trying harder isn’t the solution — compassion is.
Karyn invites us to stop forcing ourselves into burnout and start listening to our bodies, strengths, and nervous systems. True change — personally and socially — comes not from pushing through, but from working differently, choosing ease, and creating environments where everyone can participate without needing to mask or suffer.
Further Resources: links to offers from Irregular that are relevant to the episode
More about this episode:
- The emotional impact of masking and decades of “try harder” messaging
- Living with ADHD, dyslexia, autism, chronic fatigue, and Ehlers-Danlos
- Why burnout recovery shouldn’t mean returning to the thing that broke you
- Fight/flight/freeze/fawn explained simply (and why many of us live there)
- How to stimulate the vagus nerve and support nervous system regulation
- The myth of “jack of all trades, master of none” — and the real full quote
- CliftonStrengths and why neurodivergent people thrive when playing to strengths
- Inclusion vs. real inclusion: accessibility before someone even reaches the door
- Advocating inside organisations and redesigning “reasonable adjustments”
- Building a business designed around ease, capacity, and neurodivergent needs
Season 2 Episode 19
Transcripts
Jenn Wilson: Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the Irregular Humans podcast with me, Jen Wilson. My guest today is Karen Whitaker. Hi, Karen!
Karyn Whitaker: Hi!
Jenn Wilson: Hi, and Karen runs a business called Try Harder Is BS. Now, we don't, like, I don't encourage a lot of swearing on this podcast, because I want to keep it as a, you know, as accessible to people of all ages and so on as possible, but we all know what BS stands for. So yeah. Welcome, Karen. Tell us a little bit about what you do, and about
Well, I mean, from that title, it's kind of obvious that that's a little bit irregular, but tell us a bit about your& your version of irregular.
Karyn Whitaker: My version of irregular. Well, I have spent far too many years pretending to be normal.
I am neurodivergent, I have chronic fatigue, I, socially awkward.
And I have never, ever felt like I fit in. The try harder comes from my school reports.
I was very& Able at school, frequently at the top of the class.
And yet, my reports always said.
could try harder. Isn't living up to her potential.
Has so much potential, but could try harder.
and& It's such rubbish.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
Karyn Whitaker: And& Those teachers didn't know how hard I was trying.
They didn't know that I was battling ADHD, dyslexia, autism, playground bullying.
And more, and still managing to perform.
Not to my potential in the classroom.
They had no idea.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And that mask& and I, I put a mask on, I put such a mask on.
And I lived with that mask for& decades, literally.
I now went from burnout, to coping again, to burnout to coping again.
And just kept trying harder. And it's only&
perhaps in the last 10 years since I got my diagnosis of Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome.
And actually admitted that I have a chronic fatigue condition, because Ehlers-Danlos is exhausting.
And& 18 months ago, I got my ADHD diagnosis.
Disclosed that to my boss, who is a wonderfully supportive human.
Jenn Wilson: Good.
Karyn Whitaker: who looked at me and said, I don't see that in you, Karen. And I was like, of course you don't! I work very hard at that.
Jenn Wilson: Yep.
Karyn Whitaker: And so, I set& I'm setting up my business to&
get me out of my corporate IT role.
And moving to helping other neurodivergent people.
To actually embrace living an easier life.
Jenn Wilson: Oh, it really, it really resonates with me, Karen, so much. I had exactly those same school reports, you know. I was&
I was, you know, high-flying in the class, I was doing really well, but always, you know, not meeting my potential, could try harder, was on every single school report as well.
And I think that I, I don't know if you experience this too, but I still kind of have that, despite my ADHD diagnosis when I turned 50, and I'm 55 now. I still sometimes follow that pattern of the voice inside my head that goes, if you just&
The word just. If you could just do that, and it's like a stick to beat yourself up with, isn't it? Just try hardly.
Karyn Whitaker: Completely.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm, completely.
Karyn Whitaker: Completely.
and& That it's just& it's so hard.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: Yeah.
It's& It's& I mean, you've talked about being a recovering people pleaser.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And& yeah, I do that as well.
And& The last person you think of pleasing is yourself.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
Karyn Whitaker: The last person you think of looking after is yourself?
It's just not a sensible way to live.
Jenn Wilson: No, it isn't, and I think that, for a lot of us who care about the world, and a lot of people who are neurodivergent have big, strong sense of social justice,
that desire to help other people, and to be a giver, and to, do good things in the world is so strong that it's very easy to put ourselves last. I spend a lot of time working with my clients on the idea that
Being the change you want to see in the world, which is what we talk about on this podcast.
Means liberating yourself.
Because you can't be that change unless you& you are doing that for yourself, as well as everyone else.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
Karyn Whitaker: And, I mean, it shows up throughout my career, so, I& Messed up my air levels.
Plus, I had glandular fever, so I never actually went to university, which was a terrible disappointment for people around me, obviously.
And I went into nursing.
For people with learning disabilities, and it wasn't right for me at all, which is where I had my first breakdown.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: But it was that I must help people.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And what it costs me doesn't matter.
I went from nursing into social work.
Which also wasn't right for me.
And then I went into project management, which was better.
But the thing that really helped was working part-time.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
Karyn Whitaker: Saying, actually, this 37, 40 hours a week doesn't work for me. This brain and body can't do it.
And now I've ended up project managing for a big corporate company.
And it's not where I want to be, so my 60th birthday present to myself in October is going to be my notice.
And I'm off to coach and help people to stop trying harder.
Jenn Wilson: Fabulous. Fabulous.
So, yeah, common with a lot of people, a lot of us ADHDers, that thing of.
kind of getting stuck in something that you think is going to work for you, but then it just doesn't, and trying another thing, and trying another thing, and having, that thing I've had levelled at me the jack-of-all-trades, master of none idea. But actually, that's a great thing, isn't it? Being&
Karyn Whitaker: Do you know the rest of the quote?
Jenn Wilson: No, I don't.
Karyn Whitaker: So, a jack of all trades is a master of none.
But oftentimes better than a master of one.
Jenn Wilson: Aha! Exactly!
Exactly. So that first part's used, and is a great criticism of an.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes.
Jenn Wilson: And that second part is exactly how I feel about it, that, that I am&
Highly competent, if not the ex& not the expert in one thing, but highly competent at a range of different things.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes.
Jenn Wilson: And that's an unusual skill set, isn't it?
Karyn Whitaker: It certainly is.
Jenn Wilson: It's.
Karyn Whitaker: Certainly is.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: Yeah, and I think I& I'm the same, it's that&
Multipotentiate, polymath, call it what you will.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: I am very good at lots and lots of things. I'm not the best in the world at anything.
But I am good at lots and lots of things, and I'm also good, because your ADHD brain does this, I'm good at making connections.
Jenn Wilson: Yes.
Karyn Whitaker: Between all those different things.
And that makes me a problem solver.
Which I think is a lot of my success in the corporate world.
Jenn Wilson: Yes, and that will work for project management, of course. Problem-solving skills, really useful there.
Karyn Whitaker: S.
Jenn Wilson: I'm sure in nursing and in social work, too, in a different way, but yeah. Yeah.
Karyn Whitaker: And I'm very much seen as the person that you can
throw a heap of rubbish at and Karen will sort it out.
Jenn Wilson: Are you& are you, like me, good in a crisis, Karen?
Karyn Whitaker: Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
Jenn Wilson: crisis.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes. But what people don't see is, in the crisis, you come together and you're calm.
But there is a bill afterwards, isn't there?
And people don't see you pay that bill.
So they think you can be good in crisis after crisis after crisis.
And that breaks you.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm, it absolutely does.
Karyn Whitaker: Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: So, if try harder is BS,
What's the antidote, Karen? What should we be doing instead of trying harder?
Karyn Whitaker: Being kind to ourselves.
Being honest about what we need, and being kind to ourselves.
So, I teach nervous system regulation, and I teach&
I teach a lot of project management techniques, actually. I've taken out of the project management sphere and applied to everyday life.
Because there are tools there that can help you manage whatever it is you're trying to manage.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And we're all of us managing something, even if it's just to get the shopping in and manage to eat this week.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And those& so I teach those management techniques, and I teach emotional regulation.
Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: It's so important, the, that nervous system and emotional regulation bit, isn't it? And I think that, a lot of the solutions that are offered to people when they do hit crisis points and burnouts and breakdowns and things are more just try harder things, aren't they?
Karyn Whitaker: And& There's very much a focus on getting you To where you were before.
And so the solution to your burnout is to get you back to what brought you in the first place.
No, the solution to your burnout is to move away from what brought you in the first place and do something completely different.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely.
yeah, so,
When you talk about nervous system regulation, for people that are not familiar with neurodivergence, or haven't heard that expression before, can you say a bit more about that?
Karyn Whitaker: Absolutely. So, your body's nervous system has two modes.
They're called sympathetic and parasympathetic. Except for me, the names are the wrong way around. Because your sympathetic nervous system, which sounds really nice, doesn't it? Sounds lovely.
is actually your fight, flight, freeze, and fawn response. So that's the one where your body's full of adrenaline, stress, cortisol, all those hormones that make you tense up, that make you run faster, that got you away from a tiger, that's fine.
We don't have many tigers now.
And the ones we do have tend to be reasonably away from human habitation.
So, it's& running faster doesn't help me deal with all the stress that's hitting me in a workplace.
But that's what my body's priming to do.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And then you have your parasympathetic nervous system, and that's actually the one you want to be working, because that's the one that's calming.
Sometimes called Rest and Digest.
And it's triggered through the vagus nerve, which is the longest nerve in the body.
And goes from the brain, round the stomach and the gut.
And so&
If that nerve is in a state of calm, in this rest and digest state, your digestive system's working, your body's calm, your heart rate's lower.
But if we're in the sympathetic state, in the fight, fight, flight, freeze, and form.
then your digestive system tends to shut down, so we get problems like IBS, constipation, nausea&
You get circulatory problems, it leads into heart attacks, strokes, etc, etc. It just&
It puts your body in a place to get ill.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah.
Karyn Whitaker: Whereas there are techniques where you can stimulate the vagus nerve and kind of& Relax your system.
Hmm. And& They take your body into a place where it can heal.
And it's& in some ways, it can be as simple as taking a deep breath.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: If you take a deep breath and hold it, And breathe out slowly.
That tells your body that it is safe.
Because you wouldn't do that if you were in& if you were being chased by the tiger.
Jenn Wilson: No, you wouldn't. Yep.
Karyn Whitaker: knows you wouldn't do that. So, literally, I mean, we say take a deep breath.
But taking that deep breath.
Is one step towards calming your nervous system, and helping your body to be in a place where it can recover and heal itself.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And, I& I had to do a huge amount of work on this, because I mentioned Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, and for people who are not familiar with that.
If you think of Collagen as the glue that holds your body together.
My glue doesn't stick properly.
So, my joints are unstable, they come out of place easily, it affects my internal organs as well.
It's painful, and it's exhausting.
And pain.
Follows very much the same nervous system pathways as fear.
And that got me into a very ill I'm very&
very, very pained state, where I was spending all my days
In a lot of pain, and absolutely exhausted, and&
The nervous system work a little bit more than deep breaths, obviously, but starting with deep breaths.
Is what has given me my life back.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
And that's what you're wanting to be sharing with people through your new business.
Karyn Whitaker: Absolutely. Why wouldn't you? Yeah. Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, that's fantastic. So& In this process of change that you've been going through,
We're talking about being the change you want to see in the world. It sounds like you've done a lot of inner work there, Karen, and I'm wondering what else is going on. You know, I know it's a journey that you're still in, in terms of, kind of, showing up in the world as someone who's making change in these ways.
How's that?
Karyn Whitaker: So, I think, in terms of
There's so much I could say, Jen, but let's focus on what I'm trying to be in the world and change in the world. I'm trying to be a champion for people who&
have invisible disabilities.
So I'm trying to call that out.
on a regular basis, I am an active part of our disability network at work.
And was in my previous job as well.
And& I& I challenge& The organisations, because they say, oh, we're inclusive.
Good. How are you helping me to work part-time? Oh, you're not. You didn't think of that.
You thought inclusive meant people who are a different color.
There's a bit more to it than that, guys. Come on, try& try harder.
And& just& I make a hobby of calling out discrimination where I see it.
So, I called someone out this morning who, is running an event. Lovely.
That event is inclusive. Excellent.
And we're saying, why would you not come?
And I'm like, well, you might have chronic fatigue, you might be autistic, you might be socially& you might have social phobia, you might have caring responsibilities, you may be in an abusive relationship and not be able to take the time out.
And I just sent a message back saying.
Because all these things. Because inclusion starts long before anyone walks through the door of your event.
Because that& why would you not come just Just screamed privilege.
Jenn Wilson: Absolutely, yeah, and a lot of, a lot of, events and organisers and organisations out there all say, we're inclusive, and point to a policy, but,
it's like, we were both at an event last week& Yes. & called The Big Festoon, run by Danny Wallace, who's, an entrepreneur, which also works hard to be as inclusive as it can be, and one of the people on the stage was Regina Martin, and Regina was talking very much about this thing of.
Of the feeling as a person of color who's also neurodivergent.
the feeling you get when you walk into a place, of it& of knowing that you're& they said they were inclusive, and you walk in and you're like, oh, they're not. And you know it instantly, because they're not actually living their policy or their values.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes.
Yes.
Goodbye.
Jenn Wilson: So that why aren't people coming question is, well, what are you doing to show us that we're definitely welcome?
Karyn Whitaker: Yeah.
But& but what& also, have you even considered that there are barriers before someone even gets to your door?
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And so, I kind of have a hobby of calling out that kind of& let's say BS.
Online when I find it.
It gets me.
It gets me blocked.
Jenn Wilson: I spend a lot of time talking about the difference between calling out and calling in, and I think that it's a tricky one, because we have,
absolutely got righteous rage sometimes, when, you know, when we're seeing that harm, when we're seeing that exclusion, when we're seeing that privilege. We have every right to call it out and say, that's not okay.
Karyn Whitaker: Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: But it doesn't always give anyone anywhere to go to meet us, does it?
Karyn Whitaker: And so& That's true.
Jenn Wilson: So that thing of instead going, hey, You say you're inclusive.
And you say you want people like me to come, would you like to have a conversation about why I don't feel welcome? Or why I might not show up? And, like, keeping that conversation& with some curiosity, offering a& offering an olive branch to the& to those people, rather than
Just telling them they're wrong.
Karyn Whitaker: I accept that call out, I will try to do better.
Jenn Wilson: It's a good point.
Karyn Whitaker: point.
Jenn Wilson: I'm not inviting you here to call you good feedback.
Karyn Whitaker: back, and I appreciate it.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, it's just that thing of& I think this is a thing I feel very strongly about, being a person whose work is grounded in consent. It's about trying to& it's about trying to connect and trying to,
Find points of connection and points of consensus, because our world can be& is awfully polarized, isn't it, at the moment, you know?
Karyn Whitaker: You're right, you're right, and it is very easy to respond from a place of anger.
Jenn Wilson: Which is justified anger.
Karyn Whitaker: Entirely.
Jenn Wilson: And it doesn't always get us anywhere.
Karyn Whitaker: doesn't necessarily help.
Jenn Wilson: But sometimes that anger is so much that we can't do the work, and that's where allyship comes in, I think, you know.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes.
Jenn Wilson: It's not always the job of the person who's experiencing that harm to call it in, because you're too angry and upset and harmed by it.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes.
Jenn Wilson: Sometimes it's the work of someone else to do that bridging, isn't it?
Karyn Whitaker: Yes, and that's something I did in my last job, because,
As I was chairing the disability network, and lots of people were having difficulty getting reasonable adjustments.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And the reason was& well, the reason was that their managers
Didn't think it was reasonable to fund it from their budget.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And, it was a health organization.
And what I said was, It's probably not reasonable for your manager to fund it from their budget.
Because their budget's quite small, but if we take the whole organization.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: the organization absolutely can afford it, and it is reasonable for them to do it. And so we& what we& I did was kick off a piece of work that changed the way that reasonable adjustments were funded. Instead of it being down to the individual manager, it was funded by a top-sliced pot across the whole organization.
Jenn Wilson: Fantastic.
Karyn Whitaker: And that transformed the availability.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: For so many people.
Jenn Wilson: That's amazing, and that will have made a huge difference, not just for those individual people that needed that access requirement, but to that organization who would have been losing those people otherwise. That talent and those skills.
Karyn Whitaker: Yeah, and it takes the pressure off all those individual managers who were going, I've only got a very small budget, I can't possibly.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: It has, it's changed the way the whole thing functions.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah. And it's like& it feels like that's a really important other manifestation of the&
Of not& of not just trying harder, but going&
I'm gonna stop trying harder this one way.
And I'm gonna look for another way around this, and explore what those possibilities are.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
And it sounds like that's a big part of what you do, and&
Karyn Whitaker: It's his.
Leader. It's his.
So in my one-to-one coaching.
I'm working with& I don't know if you've come across the Clifton Strengths Model.
Jenn Wilson: Nope, tell me about it, I love.
Karyn Whitaker: So Clifton Strengths, which now belongs to Gallup, but we'll let Gallup off, because at least it's a good thing.
It's a model that was, created which has
34 different things that people might be good at.
Jenn Wilson: Right.
Karyn Whitaker: And you do the assessment, and it identifies your top 1, top 5, top 10 strengths.
So I've built a coaching model that uses that assessment and then says, and we will spend one of our coaching sessions
Talking about either your top 1, top 5, top 10 strengths.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: Because if you are neurodivergent, If you are different in any way, if you are irregular.
You will have spent a lot of your life being told what you're doing wrong.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: Being told what you're bad at, being told what you need to do better, where you need to try harder.
And I just think& I was lucky to have a coach who did this with me.
And I only had the one session focusing on my top 5 strengths, but to have that hour.
Talking about what I'm good at.
Jenn Wilson: Yes.
Karyn Whitaker: What's your gift?
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
Karyn Whitaker: And being able to give people 5 or even 10 hours of coaching to think about what they're good at.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: It's just amazing, because& If& If your natural attitude for something is, like, 2 out of 10,
And you work on it 10 out of 10.
2 times 10 is 20.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And you have worked yourself flat out.
Whereas if your natural aptitude is 9 out of 10,
And you just put in an effort of 2, We've got further already.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And it's easier.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Karyn Whitaker: And so, by working with your strengths, you can get to a place where you're putting in less effort, and you're getting more results!
Who wouldn't want that?
Jenn Wilson: Absolutely, yeah, of course.
Karyn Whitaker: And on a good day, I even remember to do that for myself.
Jenn Wilson: Yes, going back to that thing of, you know, looking after ourselves and liberating ourselves as part of making the change.
Karyn Whitaker: Yes.
Jenn Wilson: And it's so important, I think, isn't it, that,
quietening that inner voice that& that has been telling you for decades, as you said, to just try harder. Yeah. Quieting that voice that's telling you that you're not good enough, or that you're not doing it right, or all of those negative things that follow on from there. Yeah. And& and&
And allowing a voice that talks about, actually, I'm good at this.
Karyn Whitaker: Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: It changes everything, doesn't it?
Karyn Whitaker: It does, it does. I am creative. I connect things, I put things together. I take things apart and put them together in ways that make them work better.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
Karyn Whitaker: Just as I did with the disability.
adjustments. And that makes a huge difference, and can be done
In ways that don't exhaust and burn me out.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm. Absolutely.
Oh, Karen, it's fantastic hearing about your plans and your, vision for,
for the no BS future that your new business is gonna be. So if people are listening to this, and they would love to connect with you and find out more about your plans and what you're developing, whereabouts on the internet can they find you?
Karyn Whitaker: The easiest place to find, because my name is awkward to spell, is my website, which is tryharderIsBs.com.
Jenn Wilson: That's very simple.
Karyn Whitaker: That's very simple to find.
Jenn Wilson: TryHarderIsBs.com, and of course the links will be in the show notes and things for people that want them as well. Thank you. But,
Karen, thank you so much for being a guest here on Irregular Humans today. And, brilliant, best of luck with the, with, the Try Harder Is BS venture as it grows. I'm sure it will be an amazing force for change.
Karyn Whitaker: Thank you for inviting me, I've really enjoyed our conversation, Jen. I appreciate it.
Jenn Wilson: Thanks, Karen, and bye, everyone.
Karyn Whitaker: Bye.
