Show Notes for The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast Episode: 19

Thank you for listening to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast.

Today I am joined by Dr Steve Jones. He is a qualified clinical psychologist and works with Assistant Psychologists in paediatric services in the North of England.  He is also the author

of the book ‘ACT made Yorkshire.’  We talk about how ACT can be useful to aspiring psychologists and the changes which need to happen for career progression.

The Highlights:

00:29: Welcome & Reviews

01:34: The Aspiring Psychologist Membership

02:42: Inro to Dr Steve Jones & ACT

03:56: Steve’s background

09:37: Steve’s current role

11:35: Working split posts

13:17: Working through the pandemic

17:05: Grief & Trauma

18:43: The Clinical Psychologist Collective

20:05: Home working

22:02: ACT made Yorkshire Book

26:11: ACT for aspiring psychologists

30:45: Acceptance as an active process

31:36: the Role of assistant psychologists in services

37:07: Getting hold of the ACT Made Yorkshire Book & connecting with Steve

38:10: Connecting with Marianne & The Compassionate Q&A for interview season.

Links:

• To check out ACT Made Yorkshire: A Sheffield Lad's Take on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy: https://amzn.to/3EjqsgU
• To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0
• To check out The Grief collective Book: https://amzn.to/3pmbz5t
• To check out The Our Tricky Brain Kit: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/tricky-brain
• To register for the upcoming free 5-day challenge: www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/aspire 

Connect on Socials:

·       Steve Jones: https://twitter.com/ActMadeYorks

• Marianne: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-marianne-trent-psychology/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GoodThinkingPsychologicalServices
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drmariannetrent/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrMarianneTrent
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drmariannetrent?lang=en
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/GoodThinkingPsychologicalServices  

Like, Comment, Subscribe & get involved:

If you enjoy the podcast, please do subscribe and rate and review episodes. If you'd like to learn how to record and submit your own audio testimonial to be included in future shows head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/podcast and click the blue request info button at the top of the page.

Hi, welcome along to the aspiring psychologist podcast. Thank you for listening. Thank you also, for those of you who have, um, left reviews and ratings on the apple, um, podcast app, it is greatly appreciated. And if you haven't done so yet, but you would like to then please do go along to your apple podcast app search for the aspiring psychologist podcast, scroll down to the bottom and then leave your rate. And if you've got a moment longer, leave your review too, that would be wonderfully welcome. People have been finding the podcast really useful. They've also been in contact to say that they have been finding the compassionate Q and as useful to, and the other bits and pieces that I have got, um, up on YouTube on the good thinking psychological services, uh, site, too. But of course, uh, my free content is not the only way you can work with me as well.

There is also the aspiring psychologist membership, um, and we're gonna be opening that up to an additional 15 people on the 29th of April. Um, so to check out some more information about that, it's easiest to go to my link tree site, which you can find on any of my socials. Um, but it's link tree and it's doctor Marianne Trent, but there will, of course be a link in the, um, show notes for you to find out information about that. But the aspiring psychologist, um, a membership is a close knit community where you get, um, direct access to me, um, weekly. And that includes monthly group zooms as well and useful, useful content. So if the, you know, if the free content is this good, imagine how useful the paid content is too. So you can absolutely join the waiting list for that. Um, so that when the morning of the 29th of April comes around, which is when the next, um, lot of people are being admitted, only 15 people are being admitted.

Um, you can be, you know, fastest finger on the button to grab your spots, to get even closer to me. If now isn't the time for you to be looking at being part of a membership, then the free content will continue to be here as well and will continue to be really, really useful today. In the podcast episode, I am joined by a fellow clinical psychologist. Um, we first crossed path on Twitter, um, and got chatting there and I invited him onto the show. Um, I hope that you all find our had really useful, we've got, I guess, Steve talking about his journey to training, um, and, um, where he works now and also a book that he's published and how, um, acceptance and commitment therapy can be really useful, a really good, um, skill to be learning as an aspiring psychologist as well. So with no further ado, we will get cracking on this episode. Hi, just want to welcome along our guest for today's podcast. I am joined today by Dr. Steve Jones, and I will allow you to introduce yourself, Steve.

Hi, thank you. Um, yeah, so I'm Steve Jones, I'm a clinical psychologist working in Sheffield children's hospital, um, specifically in cystic fibrosis, weight management. Um, but I'm also, um, a budding author, shall we call it? Uh, so I've written, uh, a book called ACT made Yorkshire, which is acceptance and commitment therapy, but written, written through a Yorkshire lens with all the, all that that entails.

I love the sound of it. I might need to check that out. Um, thank you so much for joining us. Um, and it's really nice to have a fellow qualified clin psych, um, on the show. Um, but also, yeah, fellow author too, which is love. Lovely. Um, could you tell us a little bit, talk to the audience about your, your journey to becoming a clin psych if that's okay.

Yeah, of course. So it it's bit of me and, so hopefully this is useful. Um, I, cause I know everyone has such a different, well, it feels like everyone's got a very different journey, but yet there's this stereotype that there's only one way at the same time, which is strange in of itself. Um, so I went to Sheffield hall university, which is a, an ex Polytechnic. So it's not one of your, um, older red brick units. And I did psychology that while I was doing that, I got a bit, bit of a, a bit of a taste for things sort of neuropsych and psychobiology, that type of area. And I didn't really know what I wanted to do at that point at all. I was just, I'll see, see what happens. Um, and I managed to get onto a masters in cognitive neuroscience, which was right up my straight and I thought, huh, I'm gonna end up doing pharmaceuticals or, uh, sort of working in the more neuro side of it.

Cause I Am I'm fascinated by it and absolutely love it. And I got a first job as a support worker just to support me cause I was doing that. So I did my master's part-time. So I did it over two years and worked at the same time, so I could afford to do it and getting a better experience as well. But essentially I to pay my way through masters and as I was going through it, working as a support worker, one of my, um, tutors, um, a lady called naira, remember being sat around, um, just sort of your communal area in uni. And she was like, Steve, what do you want to do after this? I decided don't really know to be honest. Well, I don't think you'd like my job. Would you? They apart what? No, I think I would. I think that's why that's what I'm doing, isn't it?

Um, I think you need to work with people. I think you'd be bored doing mine, which was, and it just sort of Dr. Corn. Oh, I don't know, this is what I thought I wanted. This is what I thought I was gonna do. Um, and then from that, I just started looking into clinical psychology cause I'd always enjoyed sort of supporting people and I know enjoys the, an interesting word to use, but there's something that matters with what's important to me, my values. So just doing things through support, work in family assessment units, and then on a, um, a managed to get support worker job in the NHS on a inpatient cams unit. And then from there I just thought, well, no, let's go all in let's let's give this a try. Um, so got an assistant psychology post complete right place, right time. And then it just sort of snowballed from there really managed to get on its Sheffield, um, and never left. Not that I've ever left Sheffield in the first place I've tried, but as the accent probably goes, I've never quite never quite managed.

I love that. And actually it's really powerful story of being sort of seen and validates before you'd even really seen yourself. You know, it sounds like you are really good at throwing yourself in and making the most of every situation and every work role that you are in. Um, but actually to stop and take a moment and think, and take stock about what you want for the future and what that might have looked like. It sounds like a really important moment.

Steve:

It, it was. And I remember, so the, the building that, that hap, that, that conversation with now happening is not part of the uni anymore. I think it's flat, which is quite sad. It's like, oh, that was really pivotal moment in my life. I'd probably be working in pure academia now, which okay. Would've been fabulous. But also I remember talking to someone and saying, it'd be a bit like a bit like having a pizza, but one of the slices is missing. You still good and you can still enjoy it. And yet you'd always know that there was a bit that wasn't there and that would probably be that connection with people.

Maybe you'd have found your way to clinical psychology anyway, but naira helped you speed up that journey a little bit.

And yeah, she would, she's a very forthright lady, you know, the most wonderful of way. So if anyone would've speed sped that up, it would've been her.

Great. Great. Um, and how long have you been in your current department with Steve?

Uh, so I've been at the children's hospital for two years. Uh, now I'm just cuz as it stands at the moment, I'm just coming up to the end of a physician. It Roth, I've got a split post in pediatrics it's between the two. Uh, but I've been in Sheffield children's for two years, having previously done two years in Sheffield health and wellbeing, which is a, which is an arm of IAPT, which is a first qualified position, was an interesting, um, an interesting first experience of the world of clin post qualification.

Yeah. That's some, uh, some hot water to fall into, certainly in certain, in terms of your bums on seat hours, I'm sure that was, um, probably through the roof at times. Um,

And that's, and you know, being able to use that opportunity cuz from the, that, because obviously you, you do see that many people, um, and it's predominantly C B T although I do a lot of act on as it probably no surprise. Um, but from that you're able to gain things like your BABCP therapist, accreditation, because of that. So it's, you know, there is, there are opportunities that you can use to, to enhance and to say, actually if we're doing this and it's actually helpful for me to get this training because then I can, I can give that back. I can use it it's it was, it was a really wonderful experience and I wouldn't, I wouldn't ever put someone off working in that environment as Alin side, just for the, the opportunities it presents. I think sometimes we see the barriers only don't we, but when you're in it, you can, you can help with that.

Absolutely. And when we're busy, you know, that's, there's so many learning opportunities there aren't there. Very, um, yeah. Um, and actually, you know, you've alluded there to the fact that you're doing, um, a split post. I did a split post when I was qualified and I've done a split post, um, as an assistant as well. And just, you know, a little bit of, uh, kudos to anyone currently working in split post roles because my experience was fantastic, but you are working more, more than a full time job. There is, is my kind of take home memories of that.

Yeah. Where into hats and it even down to really mundane things like having different mandatory training portfolio and stuff like never mind holding, oh, this is this clinical care load. This is this one. I get supervision for this here and this there. And just, just holding that is, um, it's tricky at times, but like you say it you're almost get, you're getting double the experience aren't you, you know, you, you, you're learning how two different systems that ostensibly should be the same, but really, really aren't

You certainly learned quick. You certainly learned quick. Um, but yeah. Um, so when did you qualify? Um, from Sheffield

So I qualified in 2017.

So you were well clear by the time the pandemic started.

Yeah. Two years and I just, although I'd just started, I was about six months into my Sheffield children's jobs when that happened and then everything yeah. Adapted quick or had to,

How did you find weathering the storm of the pandemic working in children's services?

It was, it was a, a, a strange one because I think a lot of the, um, a lot of the ability to offer sort of remote or even the, you know, the thing I'm speaking to you on now is, you know, the ability to host meetings like this. I know people, sometimes I offer zoom. Now I'm done with teams, but actually the ability to offer that as an option to people was suddenly there, you know, that red tape that been slowly eroded over a day just disappeared and you could do it. Um, it was, I think it's been really strange to view the world when you knew that colleagues in adult health were in the far more pressure than was in children's services during the acute, I'm gonna call it acute phase, cuz wherever we are at the minute with COVID is a different debate.

Um, but it didn't feel as pressured there. Although within my specialty of, of cystic fibrosis, there was a lot of concern obviously within, because for people who don't know, CF is um, a genetic condition that does, you know, impact on lung health and respiratory tract. And obviously when COVID first came, the headlines were it's a respiratory condition. So there was a lot of concern there, but it was all quite, um, hypothetical and risk as opposed to people are actually dying at this point. So it was really, really challenging, um, to, to, to sort of think of that, I suppose, as it's changed and kids and teenagers and, and young people have been we're in school, we're in bubbles, we're not in school. My bubble's gone down. I'm at home, I've got GCSEs, I've got social, I've been I'm at a new school, but I've not been I'm halfway through year eight and I've never been to this school. All of those things have started. You, you can see the impact because people have not had that or to try and do GCSEs at home. It's just Regardless of who you are, that is hard.

It's just not ideal. It's just not an ideal situation. Is it, you know, what we know is a part of, you know, part of what helps us thrive is the environment sometimes, you know, and about it being separate and different to home. Um, yeah. Like people have not had it easy, you know, Mo many people haven't regardless of their positions. That's true. Um, you know, I think, I just feel, I really feel for the year six is and year sevens that missed those important times and also the year tens and elevens and twelves and thirteens, they missed some key milestones and also they missed, you know, the six forms missed going out and drinking and you know, socializing,

Just all those things that you, you take well that I remember taking very much for granted and thinking sort of first year of uni, what would it have been like? That's that experience of, you know, the world opening up is essentially what that process is, isn't it of going to uni? Well, yeah, it's essentially an extension of school now cuz the world isn't opening up in all those other ways, those living away from home or going out and just, you know, partially fending for yourself.

It's some of the continuation of grief and trauma, isn't it? That actually nobody needs to have died in order to have a grief response for what you've lost. And course the whole aspect of tr of, of COVID of course, is that many, many people did die. And so there's, there's traditional grief as well, but there's, you know, there's secondary griefs and griefs for different reasons as well. Um, you know, and like you said, I, I still can make myself smile thinking about some of my first year and second year uni, um, you know, fun and games. It's hilarious. Um, and people just haven't been able to have those rights of passage in the same way and that's, that's really sad.

Yes

We're just going to take a quick pause here so that we can hear a little bit more about the clinical psychologist collective and then I will be back with you and Steve to continue this podcast episode.

My name is Beth and I'm a psychological wellbeing practitioner from Newcastle. I just wanted to see the biggest, the contributors of the clinical psychologist collective group. I've enjoyed reading this so much and I've loved having an insight into the range of backgrounds and experiences. People have pride and applying for the doctorate and it's been really interesting seeing the potential barriers to the application as well and how I can try and work around this. I really started to doubt myself in whether was good enough to apply for the clinical psychology doctorate, but this has really given me the confidence boost that I needed to give it a shot. So the biggest, thank you ever,

Now I was just thinking around, um, sort of just people working from home as well. So of adult populations. Now I know from a, a personal point of view, I know I'm, um, I'm signing a, you know, aware of a relative privilege. I was sat on a, on a bed using my laptop for designing pieces of, uh, sort of promotional and self-help type work at home because I thought, oh, this'll blow over. I don't need to buy a proper desk. Um, and a and a proper chair, I'll be fine. We don't need that. Took about eight months before I bought a desk at which point my back was in splinters. And I thought I'll be all right. I don't need a proper chair. I haven't really got room in this spare bedroom. So I'll just use a dining, basically a folding Ikea chair, which did even worse things to my bag. Finally get a proper chair. And now I'm back at work, uh, most of the time, so you can, oh, hold on. And that's, you know, for, for people who might not have had the options to do, you know, to say, oh, I, this I've had enough now I'm gonna get that's a huge amount. And you know, being able to come downstairs and have a cup of tea between every meeting or every bit of work is fabulous for about a month and they think, oh right, okay. I'm probably overdoing the cafe now let's

Turn me back a bit when the novelty of a hot lunch wears off, you know?

Yeah. Definitely realizing the electric, the electric bills going through the roof.

Oh yeah, absolutely. There's energy trauma as well. Isn't there, it's a whole new kind of, uh, hardship as well, but maybe you could use that desk to write your second book, Steve, but um, let's think a little bit about the first book baby, if we can. So you're telling me just before we started that it's, it's quite, it's quite quite new. It's quite recent.

Yeah. It's um, the idea of it only came about, well, if properly, about a year and a bit, maybe a year or four months ago. Um, and he is been released about four months now just be just before Christmas. Um, so yeah, it's still, it's still new. It's still a baby. Um,

Congratulations when I, um, published my first book, um, one of my Facebook friends said, you know, may, may it sore high, you know, and, and sent me an image of a bird must its really lovely, really lovely. And it's got, you know, being on the topic that it is. It's got a lot of, um, power to affect people in really good ways. Tell us a little bit about your book if that's um okay with you.

Yeah, cool. It's um, the aim, well the a, it originally was, you know, sort of acceptance and commitment therapy, which speaks to me both professionally and very personally it's I during training it, it just seemed to connect, okay, this is, this is the, this is the thing, this, this makes sense of people and behavior in just what we do and how we do it. Living a life that is important to us in the context that we find ourselves was just in just really powerful. It's not about pathologizing, it's not about, um, saying that something is wrong, is okay. Is it working for you? Is it workable? How can we move that? So it comes from a place of passion in that respect. Essentially it's a book that tries to communicate, act to myself before I did any of my, um, uni work. So it's essentially to the, the working class kid who grew up sort of, not in any sort of, um, uh, with any sort of aspirations of doing what I'm doing now, it's to him.

And I know that psychology often, um, you know, it does have stereotypes. We are, we I'm now gonna use the collective now here, realizing there are exceptions, but we are generally quite a privileged middle class population. And to be able to, to speak to people without all the, the, the pretense and trying to really cut through some of the, the language and some of the words that we as psychologists sometimes hide behind, that was what I wanted to try and do. So it, it, you know, taking things from my act and translating it into sort of stories about, uh, a grey on track or chippy tea or, uh, you know, sheep shear, just stuff like that to try and well, actually it doesn't have to be, you don't have to feel tired after reading the psychology book. Hopefully it's funny. It is my humor. So it's funny to me, but you know, um, so that's essentially what I've tried to do. There are, you know, there's quite a few exercises in it, quite a few things that I've adapted from, from elsewhere, but essentially it's just me talking to myself when I was younger.

I love that. I love that. And actually the term chippy tea resonates with me as well. Cause I went to university with, um, with some northerners and I'd never heard the phrase chippy tea um, until I hang around with them. But now it's just a thing that it is, you know, we go for chippy tea now that's like, yeah, but what my world hearing it, cause it, for me, it was always fish and chips, you know? Yeah. But chippy tea, that is, that is definitely a Northern is. And um, if you are talking directly to our aspiring psychologist audience, why is ACT such a good framework and theory for them to get their head around and start using for their own lives for also perhaps for the clinical work with others?

Yeah. It's, it's a fabulous question. The with, so I can, I can roll it right back. Cause the, if I want to give the really, you know, the, the Dolly standard, I can, the amount of RCTs that are coming out within act is just going or up ridiculously fast. These and they are showing that this is an effective, An effective form of therapy, an effective form of thinking about the human experience. So that's the, you know, the driest answer I can give the more colorful one is that Being able to really tap into what is important to you, not what is important to your parents or to your, to your partner, to your teacher, years, to anything like that is what is important to you fundamentally. And then when you've answered that, ask yourself why that's important because there's probably something else under that. Why, what is the driver And thinking about The idea that your mind will give you things that are hard, your mind is designed to be a threat detector. Your mind is designed to look for things to try and keep you safe. That it's not doing that through spite. It's not doing that because there's something wrong. It's doing that because it is a human mind. Now, obviously there are extremes to that and there are things that, you know, are incredibly difficult for people to experience.

Being able to sit in a room with someone who especi. So I almost, most of my work's been in physical health. So whether that's palliative, chronic pain, general health, There's something about sitting in a room with someone and being to say, okay, these are the things that you find difficult. That's all you've spoken about. You are more than that. You are more than your pain. You are more than the things that are difficult. Who else are you, what else is there? And what are the common threads through that? Being able and using that to be able to make some one's life bigger. So we're not just gonna fight to get rid of the things that we might not be able to change. So if you are in huge amounts of pain, You might be in huge amounts of pain. That's not, I'm not going to talk that away. It might never go away. And if it doesn't okay, how do do we make life bigger? Cause otherwise you're trying to push a wall over. That's not gonna move. So not only are you gonna be in pain, you're gonna be probably angry and frustrated that you can't push the wall over to use that as a,

And there's just something about it that just really resonates the idea that, okay, Does what you are doing work. If it works, keep it. If it doesn't work, then it try something else. And that's essentially it, which is why the Yorkshire thing came from because me and a supervisor at the time we joked a conference out, I could pretend to be, um, I could pretend to be a client, but really ham up the Yorkshire side. And essentially it came out to the eh, eight, Get on with it. Oh, don't know that is what I'm actually doing therapeutically in a more subtle way, but that is essentially it. Um,

So it sounds like what you are doing there is almost putting ideas on their head and seeing if the bond told, seeing, if it kind of really makes sense, whether we really you to do this, whether we can accept it, it's always gonna be this way or whether, whether it could be different.

Hmm. And to, you know, it's that idea of accepting what you can control and what you can't. And the word acceptance has radically different meanings to people. So after whether I often talk about is that acceptance can feel a bit, white flag feels a bit surrender, you know, I'm just gonna hold my hands up and accept it. And that's not really what he's getting at. The idea is around willingness, can you have this thing and do what's important? Cause often we use a bot don't waste. I want this, but this is in the way.

So, so I think what you're saying there is it's, it's not a passive process, this acceptance, it is still an active process. It's still a choice and you still do have control because I know when I've tried to explain the concept of acceptance to people, sometimes it's like, well, it feels like it's giving up, you know? Yeah. Um, but actually if, if we re-channel the energy that we're using to fight against that thing, then you might have all these other opportunities available to you.

Yeah. That's yeah. That's exactly where I'm coming from.

Good. Good. Um, and so let's think I know that, um, we first got chatting on Twitter, um, and I know that you've got assistant psychologist working with you. Can you tell us a little bit about how assistant psychologists work in your service and what roles they do? Cause that's a really common question that I'm asked, you know, when I get my assistant psychologist job, what am I gonna be doing?

Yeah. Cool. I, I look, I, I love that question as a general question because I think if you ask, if you ask the, so at, at the, where at the moment, very lucky we have a few assistants who, um, work into various services with us. I think if we ask them, I think all of their jobs look different and that's just within one service nevermind, um, different trusts or, or with different supervisors. I think the, the, the general work is around low intensity, um, intervention. So we're talking things like low intensity guided self-help type C B T work or group work.

We're thinking sort of group development as well. And, um, I cannot speak highly enough, um, of the assistants who, you know, who've contributed some of these pieces of work. They're, they're genuinely fabulous. We're also quite lucky in that. Um, some of the, the assistance that work with us in fact, all have really, really valid and valuable, um, experiences that they can use therapeutically as well, which is genuinely just fabulous for, from our point of view. Um, but there are, there are lots of, lots of varieties in it, um, in terms of what else they're able to, to contribute to. So whether it's things like, um, getting involved in service evaluations or helping upright research reports to, you know, little parts of the sections to then add to a main report, um, they're all, all incredibly valid. Um, I think sometimes, so I'm thinking back to my assistant roles as well.

One of them was incredibly number heavy. Um, it was very, um, sort of business side psychology, which sounds really dry. However, being able to have, basically you've got a bird's eye view of the entire service, um, quite a big hospital. So it gave you perspectives that you wouldn't get if you were working in silo. So even that is an opportunity that you can use. And I think if one thing I, I probably advise anyone who wants to get into clinical psychology is not necessarily, you must do this, you must do this. You must do this. It's whatever you are doing, how can you use it? How can you apply that in some way? And it's, it's often it, it comes very similar to act in that sense of, it's not what you are doing. It's why are you doing it? Why is this useful? Um, because that's often the thing that you can tell. So you could, when you see, um, applications and, um, you know, interviews is often the person who's able to say, I've done this because of this, or this was helpful for me because this is how I've learned from this. And this is how I've developed from this often, you know, the, the, the, what is useful, it's really helpful, but the bit that it's underneath it, the why, why has that been helpful? Why have you wanted to do this? That's the thing that you go, ah, right.

That's really useful. And, you know, as you were talking, I was imagining like Pacman walking around, sort of gobbling up all these little nuggets and using them. And then my mind was transforming when I was at secondary school, we bought my friend this, um, present it, um, you'd gobble up, it's a reindeer, you gobble up these chocolate things. Then you push it down and it poos out the other end, but it poos it out exactly the same as it went in. And actually that's not what we want from our assistants is it, we want some element of transformation. We want them to digest what they've had, take meaning from it, and then give it back to us a different point in a transformed way that, that shows us the resonance it's had with them. And so that's what really excites you when you see on a form, um, I think is what you are suggesting as well.

Yeah. So when we, yeah, when we see that coming in, you can, you can see it's not to the individual experience, but the, the experiences, the, the, the meaning that someone has taken from that it's stitching together, maybe two or three experiences that all right, this person really understands what this, why they were asked to do this, what this means to them. And it's, it really shines through

It does. And so what we don't want to see is reindeer poo on, on applications. You never thought I'd say that, you know, that no, probably probably a Google whack. And I haven't thought about that little reindeer since I was about 12, you know, that's just been storing itself in my head for the opportune moment when it was time to, you know, to parrot that out. But, you know, this is an example of what talking about, isn't it it's taking meaning from the world gobbling up. Yeah. Storing it until it's ready to be, to be something brilliant, um,

Until it's useful. Yeah. And who've thought that that reindeer poo would be useful in

Absolutely. Absolutely. Gotta love a human brain. Haven't we, um, thank you so much for talking to us, Steve, this is gonna be such a useful effort episode. Um, and your book sounds absolutely brilliant as well. So I'd urge everybody listening to, um, to check it out. Where can they get hold of a copy if they'd like one?

Yeah. So it's available through Amazon either as, um, a hardback or it's available as an ebook ebook on Kindle.

Perfect. And how can people, or can people, um, connect with you on social media?

Uh, yeah. So I'm on, I'm on Twitter, uh, act made Yorks ActMadeYorks

Lovely. Imagine if you said no, I don't. I'm not on Twitter after I've already outed you as being on

Twitter. Yeah, no, I'm trying to keep it low profile,

But thank you so much for joining us and I will pop all your contact details in the show notes as well. Um, thank you again for your time and for, you know, listening to my random request when we got chatting on, um, on Twitter, you fancy coming and doing a podcast episode, and you said, yes.

Bye. Absolute pleasure. Thank you for, thank you for you the invite, and yeah. If anyone wants to connect and ask questions, please, please feel free.

Perfect. Thank you so much for your time, Steve.

My pleasure. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening today. I hope you have found it helpful. Um, you can get in contact with me basically. I'm in most places I am now, um, doctor Marianne, Trent. So that is the case for LinkedIn. That is the case for Twitter. That is the case for Instagram. The only places that I am not that are on Facebook and YouTube, um, and that is good thinking psychological services. So come and connect. Um, I'm also on link tree as Dr. Marianne Trent. I'm also on as Dr. Marianne Trent too. So you can come and look at all the different ways of working with me, um, yeah. Directly from my link tree or from any of my socials, um, for that matter. Thank you so much. Please do take a moment to rate and review us on the apple podcast app. And I will look forward to catching up with you for our next episode, which we'll be landing with you at 6:00 AM on the next coming Monday. Whenever that might be for you. Um, yeah, come and get connected, come and let me help celebrate your successes on socials, because I do love to do that. Um, be kind to yourself, enjoy the next, um, compassionate Q and a, which is coming up. There's a little bit more information coming up for you in a moment about that, but yeah, be kind to yourself. Enjoy the spring weather. If it is indeed still spring, where you are listening to this and I will catch up with you very soon. Take care.