Dr. Erika Tate, founder of Loravore® Professional Learning and high-energy host of Remix EQ Live, has a long personal and professional history of seeking out and creating equitable learning experiences for women and people of color. She sits down with Elana Leoni, CEO of Leoni Consulting Group, to define instructional equity, suggest how to approach a society-wide problem on a classroom scale, and talk about the rewards and challenges of using EdTech tools in this work.

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Elana:

Hello, and welcome to All Things Marketing and Education. My name is Elana Leoni, and I've devoted my career to helping education brands build their brand awareness and engagement. Each week, I sit down with educators, EdTech entrepreneurs, and experts in educational marketing and community building. All of them will share their successes and failures using social media, inbound marketing or content marketing, and community building. I'm excited to guide you on your journey to transform your marketing efforts into something that provides consistent value and ultimately improves the lives of your audience.

Hello, everyone. And welcome to another episode of All Things Marketing and Education. This week I'm really excited to be sitting down with Dr. Erika Tate. You'll get to experience her today, but I'm going to tell you that she is full of energy. I have been fangirling from her for a long time, listening to her live video shows, and watching her, and how animated she is, so you are in for a treat. Her high energy is really great today, because as you may hear a little bit, my voice, maybe throughout the podcast, I'm recovering from the flu. So it's not my low energy, it's just, wow, everyone's got something nowadays. I forget the acronym, but they say it's some kind of not COVID mysterious virus, so count me in on that.

Let's get back to Erika. Erika is one of the few podcast guests I actually don't know incredibly well. Like I said, I've known her, but I've known her from what she produces and how she inspires others. And I've always said, "Hey, I've known this guest or that guest on Twitter, and we've been following them from decades." Erika is a little bit of an exception, because I've been following her on LinkedIn and I'm seeing all the great things and the businesses she's producing and the content that she's talking about. And so, I've been fangirling her for a while. I told her right before the show, and she laughed. And I am just so excited for her to share her knowledge with you.

Before I get into Erika's bio, I want to let you know today that we'll be talking about all things equity. And even getting into some specifics like instructional equity and equitable learning experiences. And if you don't know anything about this topic, don't worry, don't feel intimidated. I think we are all learners, including myself, including Erika. We would say everything is changing all the time. We have to learn. But I want you to sit tight, and you will just soak it all in. You'll have resources. You'll feel a lot more informed about equity in EdTech.

If you are in EdTech, speaking of EdTech, we will talk to you about how you can talk about equity confidently, how you can understand the nuances of equity in EdTech, and potentially how can you align your product with equitable learning outcomes. And if you're an educator, Erika has a ton of practical resources, tips, strategies, and all the things to get started.

Back to Erika, I want to give you a little bit of a bio of her. And as you know, I tend to do the bios of the guests on this show, because I find, in education, everyone is so humble, and they say two sentences and that's it. But it doesn't give you the context you need to understand the wealth of their knowledge and their passion they bring to the field. So bear with me, this is going to be a whole hot minute. Don't worry, and we'll get into the nitty gritty and all the things equity.

But Erika is the founder of Bluknowledge. And is Bluknowledge LLC a learning firm that advances equity through collaborative research, insightful evaluation, equity-driven professional learning? All of those things sounds like stuff that we are going to get into. She also launched another business, I told you, on LinkedIn. She's like, "Here's my other business. Here's also everything else I'm doing." She launched LoravoreⓇ Learning, which empowers schools and community educators to design and deliver equitable and effective learning experiences. So she's working in the schools as well. And then when I told you I was fangirling and listening to what she's producing, she also hosts Remix EQ Live, which is an online learning platform and community that brings people together, and she brings the most interesting guests together and talking about equity, social justice, and all the things that encapsulate the nuances in between.

Dr. Tate -- Erika, we will be calling her -- but she is a doctor. She, for over two decades, has designed and delivered interactive community building, practice-changing K-16 professional development across the country. She specializes in training and instructional coaching for elementary and secondary teachers that center equity in instructional design, digital learning, and STEM teaching and learning. She also has published and presented on all of these topics, including a book chapter on designing science instruction for diverse learners. So I just want to welcome you, Erika, to All Things Marketing and Education. I am so excited to connect with you and learn from you. Welcome.

Erika:

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I appreciate it. I feel energized.

Elana:

Well, on her show, just to give you context, you want to go how you start the show sometimes.

Erika:

Yes. Welcome to Remix EQ Live.

Elana:

I was like, "Oh, she's got energy." I don't do that. I'm so excited to have you on the show. I'd just like sometimes to start with... Sometimes we dive into what we're known for in the industry and what we're passionate about, but I'd love to just know a little bit about you, and it gives context to our audience to understand you as a person, too. But how did you get started on this journey, and how did you end up focusing on what you focus on right now?

Erika:

Yeah. I think it started when I was a young person. I grew up in a military family. My daddy served in the US Air Force for 20 years, and so we ended up moving a lot, and we ended up just being in a lot of different communities in which we had to figure out how to become a part of and how to live in and thrive. And I think early on, I did have a pretty keen eye for unfairness and injustice, even in elementary school, and I would speak up about it in ways that young people do, but that also gets you in trouble. So I did that for probably through middle and high school. And then when I got to college, I found better ways to do that. But even in college, I went to college to be an engineer. I studied electrical engineering and I was very interested in math and science and computers. And so that brought me into that space. It was something I was good at and something I enjoyed doing.

But I also was really interested and got very involved in trying to figure out ways to increase the representation of students of color in STEM fields. And so I joined the National Society of Black Engineers. I worked in the dean's office that had initiatives for bringing women and students of color into the field. And it's something that I just thought was part of my extracurricular activities on campus. But a few years after college, after I worked as an engineer and pivoted in education, I used all those extracurricular activities to get a job where -- at UC Berkeley, where I was able to support students who came to the campus as undergraduates who were first-generation or students of color or women, and they would work with faculty to try to get into grad school.

And so I think I just always kept following that equity. I wasn't calling it that then. And then I was like, "I'm just trying to make a place comfortable for people so that they could feel like they belong here, too." Then when I went to grad school, my research program, we built STEM learning experiences for K-12 schools and mostly middle and high school. And in doing that, I came into contact with people who were really centering social justice in their work in the math and science fields. And I thought, "Okay, this is my place. This is a space in which I feel like I can contribute to and continue to learn from." And so that's what pretty much launched me in this space. I designed a curriculum that taught kids about STEM through a social justice lens, and where they could think about their community and their experiences, and they can contribute to solutions. And I got to intersect with the public health field both in scholarly work as well as a public health department and grassroots coalitions.

And so it just really grounded me in community and the importance of it and working for that change. And so when I left, when I graduated, I just didn't see myself necessarily in academic institutions. I felt very called to work from the space of community. And so that's how, years later, I ended up founding my business Bluknowledge, in which almost every project that we do centers equity and whether it's kids or families or communities. And it's definitely, like, if you could call a place of work home, it's definitely a place I call home. I'm very much energized by it and energized by the people who do this work. And so, that's how I got here, and I think I'm here to stay.

Elana:

Yay. Yeah. And that work must be energizing, but at the same time, obviously challenging. But it's a bit of a double-edged sword because, for me, my heart breaks when I see it and I don't know how to fix it. And it's sometimes such a big problem. I'm like, "Okay, how do you even get started?" And I know that you're going to talk about a little bit of ways to do that. But I also just want to say, "Go Bears." I'm a fellow Cal Bear, too. UC Berkeley, go Bears.

Erika:

Love it.

Elana:

Let's jump into instructional equity, equitable and effective learning experiences. I know you have a depth of knowledge and experiences around that, but would you mind just starting on, okay, we're jumping into your class and we're sitting in the front, and we're like, "Okay, 101, what is it?"

Erika:

Yes. All right. So, instructional equity. So, when you are pursuing -- I think of it as a pursuit. We're always on this journey to be more equitable. And so, when you are pursuing instructional equity, it really is this practice that you're engaged in, you're planning your delivery, you're reflecting on the learning experiences that are happening in your classroom, and you're doing so in a way that you are ensuring that you meet the needs of every student in your classroom and your school. And so, when I talk about instruction, I'm talking about your learning expectations. I'm talking about the content that you're choosing to teach to your students or somebody has chosen for you to teach to them. Also, I'm thinking about your assessments and thinking about any of the tools that you have in your classroom.

So how do you coordinate all of those things so that you can really invite and support students to bring themselves into their classrooms, their identities, their lived experiences, their histories of their families, so how do you create an environment or a learning community that allows for you to do that? And not just so that you are connecting with them and building relationships, which is very important and very key to any learning that's going to happen in your classroom, but you also are considering these as academic resources. These ideas that students have, this emerging knowledge that they're developing through your class and through their school career are resources for further learning for themselves, are resources for further learning for their peers, as well as yourself. I think as a teacher, as an educator, as a lifelong learner, I'm also learning from the people whom I'm trying to teach a particular thing.

And then second is that when we are engaged in instructional equity, after we've invited these ideas and experiences into the classroom, and after we positioned them as resources for learning, the learning activities that we have and the tools that we use are really eliciting those. It's not just that we want to know about it, but we're figuring out ways to kind of pull that out of students or encourage them to share it, but also that they're doing it in different ways. And so, we all have different and diverse ways of knowing and doing things or building and sharing knowledge.

And so with our classroom, if it's a classroom that is built on instructional equity that has equitable experiences, then students should be able to find multiple different ways to share their ideas, to exchange ideas with others, and to use or apply those ideas to what you're learning in the classroom or what they're going to take with them when they head back home to their families or head forward in their school or other life careers that they have.

Elana:

Yeah. I feel like in this podcast, I'm going to do -- and for those of you who can't see this live, I'm going to do a lot of head nodding. I'm going to like, "Yes. Yes." And I'm like -- sometimes, because I come from the family of Edcampers, we snap. And I'm like, "Yes." Head nodding and snapping in all this weird way, because what you're saying is something I truly believe in, and it inspires me for what if we all could have this and have access to this, what type of society would we be? We would be very different. And it inspires me for the work that you're doing. So we talked a little bit about what it is, but what do you think the misconceptions are around this type of work, and maybe potentially, what do you think is the biggest barrier why people and districts and even EdTech don't get involved as much as they could?

Erika:

I have two things about this. One, again, you mentioned it earlier. It is such a big problem and it's such a big challenge. And I think it's -- and as it should be -- it is overwhelming and it is intimidating. I mean, it is that type of problem that we need to find solutions for. And I think that sometimes there are all these inequities that exist, and the reason that this inequity exists happened way before me and way before the children who are in my classrooms. Although it still affects them and it will affect them for generations, but that is overwhelming. A generational problem is really hard to tackle. And I think, I don't know if it's a misconception, but an approach to that is thinking about there are many inequities, and depending on what lens that you choose to look through, you might be able to identify something that you can change.

And so, for example, for me, I often look through a racial equity lens. I often look through a gender equity lens because I'm a Black woman. But I can look and see, "Okay. I can see disparities in our achievement levels as defined by standardized tests, and I can see that those disparities exist because of race." And I can start to think about and ask the question, "So what has happened before this time that has led to that? And then where can I insert myself or insert others to make that change?" And I think feeling empowered that you don't have to have the solution to the entire problem, but you do have to find a perspective to look through that suits you or suits the students that you're serving or the families that you're serving, and begin to unpack what it is that might have led to this, and what you can do to contribute to that.

The other thing that I think sometimes is a misconception is that we are like, "Okay, if we're meeting the needs of all our students, then that's just really good teaching." And so we just kind of fall back and are like, "Well, this is an evidence-based solution or practice, and so I'm going to use it. I'm good teaching, and I'm being equitable." But I think it starts before that. It starts with the intention and really understanding. I'm like, "What it is that has led to this inequity? Why do I have students who are not reading at grade level?" Or, "Why do I have students who don't view school as a positive experience, because that could be based on their family's history?" Or, "Why is it that I do have students who could succeed more than they are? But now my school or my district has not provided the resources that I need as an instructor to support them to going forward?"

And so, I really like to underscore that the beliefs that you have about yourself and your students and their learning and your intentions for making that change are really key and critical for pursuing equitable instruction, or any type of equitable outcome in your schools and communities.

Elana:

Yeah. And like you said, what you're dealing with is generational, and it can feel overwhelming. But what I loved about what you said is that you just have to go in and almost be a learner. And if your goal is to truly improve learning outcomes for all students, you got to do this. You got to be curious and say, "Gosh, what types of students in my class are succeeding and not succeeding?" From an EdTech perspective, you should be saying, "What types of students are using my product and which ones aren't? Is my product as inclusive as possible? Do I talk -- is it helping decrease the inequity, or is it increasing it?" These are some hard questions that you have to ask yourself, but you got to start somewhere, and it reminds me of...

We build online communities, one of the things we do at LCG, and a lot of the times we'll start with an assumption. We'll say, "Here's what we think will happen." And then we'll test it out with the educators. And I would say -- I'm embarrassed to say, but more often than not, the educators prove us wrong. And they're like, "No, we actually don't like that. We like this." But you don't know until you actually go -- But you have to go in intentionally with that almost scientific, "Here's my assumption. I'm going to test it, but I'm going to leave it up to them." And I love how you say that you have to really learn alongside your students and activate their prior knowledge and interests in learning and things.

Erika:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean I really agree because the way that we build community is not just being in the same space. Like you were talking about, you're building a community in your classroom, and if you consider it one way in the delivery of information, then a community, you are not building. You are just instructing. I mean, like that idea, I think that you come into a community, you create enough comfort. You create enough support that you can try things out, because we can't predict every experience for every student, it's too diverse. And we don't want to keep falling on the ideas and stories that we have or that other people have told us about students. So that curiosity that you have with your classroom, with your learning community, I mean, it will go so far into changing your classroom culture and building more equitable instruction and learning experiences for your students, including yourself as an educator.

Elana:

And not to layer on a bigger problem, but I just want to bring out the pandemic and its effects right now, because I would say even veteran educators, 20-plus years in the classroom, are reaching out and screaming, "I don't know how to engage students. I don't know. I don't even know where to start." And that's where I feel like they can look backwards and say, "Okay, what was happening in the last two-plus years, and what was different between these types of students and these students that may have catapulted them to do this or be more apathetic or less interested or whatnot?" It's a bigger problem. I know we're going to get into that. I'm digressing because I have a little bit of a flu brain, but I want to kind of pivot us over to the EdTech world. And yes, I hate that word pivot, but I feel like it's appropriate for EdTech when we're talking about them.

If I'm an EdTech professional and I'm listening, and I'm like, "Yes, I want to be a learner. I really want to truly understand equity and education," how can they get involved on a broader level? How do they adequately talk about equity and not overpromise what their product's doing? And then, I mean, a lot of these folks are in meetings where they get to direct what the product becomes and what they should be looking out for. I know those are bigger questions.

Erika:

Yeah.

Elana:

Start with one.

Erika:

Yeah. With EdTech, I mean, I think one of the reasons I appreciate digital tools and believe that they should be integrated with classroom instruction is that they do two things. Is that a well-designed EdTech tool gives you visibility into students' ideas, gives that for the teacher. As well as for some of the tools that we have out there, students can also see other students' ideas very easily, and it also gives students voice. And so students are allowed to share in ways that they may not be able to share in a more traditional classroom if those tools weren't there, or if those tools alongside instructional strategies weren't there.

And so, I think things that EdTech developers can think about is in the design of this tool, one: who's using it, because that's really important, and who's going to use it in the way that's intended? I'm really sorry. I want to say, reverse that. There's that, also what's the intention of that tool? And so, what is it that you want students to be able to get out of it, to do with it, to learn with it, and how will it support teachers to better instruct those students?

And so, I think about then, if your purpose is for more visibility of ideas, how are you creating the space or creating the opportunity for students to access your tool and use your tool, and communicate with it? Those things are important to ask those questions. And I think the other thing is, who does that tool silence? So when we're thinking about we have this really cool tool and it's really exciting and it's bringing students' ideas into the classroom, but some students aren't contributing, some students aren't sharing, some students aren't listening or reading or watching other students' responses.

And I think just all of those are really good test criteria to look at when you're designing this tool and you're putting it into practice with students to really pay attention to who is using it, who is not using it, and why. Because I think those connect to more general principles around equity in general. When we talk about inequities, we're usually talking about someone being silenced. We're usually talking about someone not having access. We're usually talking about somebody not being able to make use of a resource. And so when we can use those as lenses for our tests, our field tests with our tools, then I think we'll get more information, and it'll push us closer to thinking about if we are meeting the needs of every student in our classroom, why, and how.

Elana:

Yeah. And what you said is that technology can give voice to students. And I also heard you, in the beginning, talking about choice, and technology does that too, right, so well. That's what I love about EdTech, is that if you do it well, you can have this toolbox of EdTech and say, "Okay, we've got a project. Here are lots of different ways that you can do it." And it really helps being inclusive with all the diverse learners and potentially saying, "Okay, this person's more into video or podcasting," whatever it may be. It invites them to share their passion and really dive deep into the learning. And I love that about it.

And then you mentioned access, and that's critical. And I see that when people think about, especially in EdTech developing products, sometimes they have engineers at the helm and they say, "Oh, this is the feature they need." And they say, "Why?" And they say, "Well, of course, they need this. They need these big dashboards." I'm like, "But why? Is it meeting a challenge right now that you can validate with actual teacher voices and actual administrator voices?" And so, that's something to just pause and think of, because if you do not have educators in the room or you're not listening to them actively, chances are you're not going to develop a product that's incorporating their voices. And it might be contributing to inequity and you don't even know it. Right?

Erika:

Yeah. I love that point about who's included in the room, who's included in the testing of that, and I think you're making a tool for educators to use with students, and if you leave them out, your product is probably not going to be as useful. But also being strategic and intentional about who you're inviting, so making sure that you have a diverse set of teachers. And it could be diverse anyways, geographic, different types of resource schools, it could be racial, it could be gender, it could be diverse by the types of students they teach. But having all of those experiences come into the room to utilize the product that's being developed, really, it makes it harder to make sense of the data, but I think it makes it more useful.

And then also looking at those, what we are, the margins or those on the edges, sometimes we ignore that because it's like most people are using it. But I think that when we can see why isn't it working for the small select group of people, it might provide us some insights into how to make a better, more inclusive, and a useful product for all students, all teachers, or all schools.

Elana:

Yeah. And this reminds me. So we've now had, I don't know, 30-something episodes of the podcast. And one of our episodes was with Rayna Yaker and she's from RYE Consulting, and she talks about pilots. And in particular, when you are piloting your product in districts, how can you really work and collaborate with educators to fully get the understanding that Erika is talking about, of like, "Who do they think is being left behind?" Because sometimes, data won't show you that. But qualitatively, you can talk to the educators and say, "How are you feeling about this? Did this engage other learners that normally don't engage?" That qualitative is super helpful, and she has a lot of tips around how to partner and make it a win-win situation for teachers, educators, admins, and yourself, too. So we'll put that episode on the Show Notes. And I'll put the URL on the Show Notes then, the episode.

I know we could talk for days about this topic. I think maybe the last part with EdTech, I just want to hit home and maybe throw something at you around accessibility of EdTech, too. And we know there are profit models within EdTech, and they need to sell. And if they're selling directly to parents, sometimes that can create inequitable access. But I would just say those EdTech folks that have a product that are selling either B2B, B2C, just think about who you're selling to and who wouldn't be able to afford it. Naturally, from your business model, who are being left behind? And is there a way that you can enter the conversation and give access to your product even in the smallest way to other areas and people that normally wouldn't? And I just want you to pause and just think about that. Because if you're going to be talking about equity on your website, you have to be thinking about what are the ways that you can actually provide equitable access and learning outcomes.

Let's talk about the educators, because I know you educators that are listening are going, "Gosh, maybe I've tried this." But like Erika's saying, it's a long journey, and you're constantly learning, and it's constantly changing. But are there some simple things that I can do either to get started or to help reignite what I'm currently doing?

Erika:

Yeah. I think one thing that's like, it's simple because you have the most control over it, but it's definitely something that takes time, is just starting with reflection. I think it's really important that when we are thinking about equity, thinking about ways that we might change our practice so that it's more equitable, we have to really reflect on ourselves because we are all humans, and we have all have our own histories and identities and that affects how we view the world. It affects the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves, our students, and what our students will achieve and will accomplish. And so I think that the first place is to really start with reflection and think about what is it that you truly believe about yourself as an educator and your purpose, and what is it that you truly believe about your students and what they can accomplish.

And I think when we start to do that type of reflection, we start to notice some of the spaces where, "Actually, I believe that every student can learn. But sometimes in my practice, I'm not addressing every student, or I've already relegated a couple of students to a space in my class where I know they're just not engaged. They're just not going to get it. And so I'm going to have someone come in and do something with them while I work with the rest of my class," and just think about why is that happening and what can you do to change that.

I think the other thing, I love sharing with teachers, because one, it helps with the collegiality of teachers, is that I'm a researcher so I like evidence. And so I have all these ideas about what I think I'm doing and what I think is going to work just like we all do when we plan a learning experience. But I'm having a colleague -- or if you have a good relationship with an administrator -- come in and observe your classroom, come in or take a short video of your classroom so that you have evidence of your practice. And that way you can see, "I wanted all the kids to do that, but at some point in the lesson, I just stopped moving in that way, because it was time and I needed to complete this or move them on to the next thing." Or, "Actually, I have a few students in my classroom just because of personality maybe that I don't really engage with as much." Or, "Maybe it's behaviors that come from somewhere, and so I have some strategies for controlling the classroom, but it doesn't necessarily facilitate the learning."

And so, I think that if you can get a friend, your teacher friend bestie to come in and help you learn more about what you are actually doing in your classroom and then taking some time to reflect on that with your beliefs, I think it's really eye-opening, and it really creates what I think is most important at first is the opportunity and this kind of catalyst for changing your practice.

Elana:

Yeah. That's such a good point. And it made me start thinking about when educators see themselves on video, it's a whole new world. Because you just don't understand all the things that you do and sometimes -- not sometimes, pretty much all the time -- you have zero time. And so what are the shortcuts you do consistently that unintentionally may leave some folks out? And you'll see it on video. And for educators going, "Gosh, that's really intimidating," know that we now have something in our pocket that has video. You can just put it on a stand. It doesn't have to be professional. But I also want to point your attention to the world of EdTech is sometimes districts buy technology that you may not even be aware of what you have at your disposal. So check to see with either your telesis or your EdTech coordinators or anyone in the school that helps you with tech, or the district, and see what types of technology they have at your disposal. Because more often than not, they actually might have a solution.

And just to list a couple, there's Insight ADVANCE, which is really great, where you can -- all of these solutions, but Insight ADVANCE, Edthena, Swivl, they all have solutions where you can videotape yourself, and you can choose what you share with other people. It's not like "oh, gotcha" moments where it's like, "Oh, she's doing bad teaching." We're all doing bad teaching at certain times. I can imagine. Right? We're not perfect. That's why we want to just reckon with ourselves and say, "What are the habits I have?"

Erika:

Oh. That happened --

Elana:

Oh, go ahead.

Erika:

No. I was just like, "Yeah, I love the fact..." I'm sorry. I love the fact that you were like, "Yes, check with your district, because there's all of these different tools that exist." And it is true. Yes. You do not need to buy new things to do this reflection. Use what you have, or ask the district to provide it for you, because you work for them.

Elana:

Yeah. And then if you're an educator, pause this part of the episode, and just reflect on what are the things that you think you might do differently or you just question. Because one of my friends -- Jen Roberts, she's an English teacher in San Diego -- she was doing those Harkness circles where all the kids are in a circle, and their goal is to each one of them talk and discuss a book, but in more of a strategic way. And the kids get participation points when they bring up points, and things like that. And so she would track it in the circle. And just because she had the time and she wanted to, she paused and said, "Who's not talking? What are the patterns around who's not showing up?"

And she was able to rearrange groups to make people feel more included and really talk. Sometimes the kids don't even know why they're not talking. Somebody you ask says, "Hey." I'm like, "I don't know." But you have to figure out, maybe they don't feel included. They don't feel safe enough to talk. So she was able to rearrange groups with just a Google tool and say, "Okay. Let's see if this works. And then let's see if this works." And then slowly but surely, we saw everybody participating, and she was super proud of that. So there are even just baby moments like that. Right?

Erika:

Yeah. That's a big moment. I love that because, I mean, dialogue is how we learn. And I think that -- I mean, I love that intentionality around that. And then, I like this embracing kind of the iteration, like, "I tried this, it worked. I tried this, it didn't work, and I kept tweaking it until I came to a point where I felt like all my kids could participate in this activity in the way that I thought would be most beneficial for them." And I think, the thing is, it's not going to always work the first time, probably not. But the fact that you're trying and you have this goal, for example, for every student to contribute to the conversation about the topic that you have, then you can really work and plan toward that. And then she even has some evidence. She's tracking it so that she knows how close she is to this goal and what else she might need to try to do that. I think that's the right spirit with this.

We talked about it earlier, it's a big problem. It's really challenging. It's really overwhelming. But even that little bit created so much opportunity for voice, for students, and then what happens when she does the next unit?

Elana:

For sure. So we talked a little bit about just how to get started, and I'm sure we'll connect with you and throw some of your resources in the Show Notes, too, for some practical tips and stuff. But when an educator starts this work, what do you think frustrates them that sometimes they don't continue the work? What are the typical challenges they encounter?

Erika:

Yes. And so this definitely depends on the educator and how they're coming into the problem and from where. But I think that one, it's like the results don't happen really fast, and that can seem frustrating. But you're talking about changing a problem that exists, that has come to exist over generations. And so, you will see changes. You will see students talk. You will see students find the resource that they need to move them forward in whatever learning trajectory that they have. But it will take time to change a culture to center equity. It will take time to change a culture to fully implement those strategies and create an environment that's inclusive.

And I think the other thing, too, is that it's really hard work to lead equity initiatives in your school. Especially, I always think as being a Black woman, and I'm sitting here talking about inequities, I'm talking about inequities for my students that I also have, and it becomes very -- it's very emotional and frustrating and painful, because you're reliving a trauma that has happened so that you can help students not have to live with that trauma, or at least cope with it in ways that helps them to be more successful in school. And so, I think those are challenges.

And so one, I think, for the person who's feeling those challenges, because you identify with the group that you're trying to support and change, is to really honor that work and honor that it does hurt, and honor that you might need to take a break. Step out if it is causing you frustration, and think about other ways to get in there. But also, that the colleagues are also not running to the teacher of color to ask them how to solve this problem, because they're already solving a lot of other things that are happening day to day. And just thinking about what is it that -- what work can you do as an ally in this process to move things forward or to create space so that conversations can happen in the most comfortable way. It is an uncomfortable topic.

Discomfort is necessary for change, but how can we do that in respectful, productive ways that keep our focus on students, or focus on teachers or other educators? Having, I think, an experience with learning, whether it's professional or an academic in the classroom that keeps them wanting to learn, and learn with others in the future. And so I think those are considerations to think about when embarking on this work. It's hard to do it by yourself, but it's also hard to do it with others. And you have to take that into account and figure out ways that you can respect the challenge and respect the people who are trying to solve it.

Elana:

Yeah, that's such a great point. And I think about the older a student gets, the less one teacher has an influence of their entire day. So if I am in middle school or high school, I might just have them for one period of the day. And sure, I can do my best to be as equitable as possible and start learning, but again, it's just one portion of their day. It's like you're pushing this boulder up a hill. It's about to go back at you, because who knows what happens to them in the rest of the day, and also their home environment and their social environment? So do you have an example? I know you work with districts, too. But it feels like the best one would be like, "How can I as a district embody this as an initiative, and then--?" You also said it's hard to work with others on this, but we got to work somewhere. But do have an example of maybe a district that was able to do this successfully, or even just navigate it?

Erika:

I'm trying to think. I'm not sure if I have an example of a district.

Elana:

Or maybe just from a district leader, what would you hope that they would do to just make sure all of their educators are aware that this is a priority? Because sometimes we just go about our day, and we are busy. We're busy, busy, busy. How do we make sure that they even have this top of mind? So creating a culture of just being aware of it to start.

Erika:

Yes. Well, I think that... So, I think that has to start from the top and start from the leadership, and it has to be a part of all that they're doing. And so I think when districts are rolling out their academic plans, or they're rolling out their strategic plans for how they're going to improve instruction or improve students' learning experiences that they need to make that aware. There needs to be a statement of commitment, but it also needs to be a part of that. So if we are going to center equity in our school district, then we are also going to create training for teachers and training for other school staff that allows for them to, one, consider and reflect on this topic that is really massive, as we've talked about. And also begin to create plans for thinking about how they might improve their instruction or their support of instructors.

In doing that, I think, also, just thinking about -- I think anytime that we are trying to center equity, we need to be really great listeners and learners. And so, how is the district communicating and reaching out to the other stakeholders, like students and families and even their teachers, to get a better sense of what the needs are?

Obviously, at the end of every year, most public school districts have an accountability report. And so we quantify the racial disparities or linguistic disparities of our students, but that's just one point in time. What else are you doing to learn about the experiences of your families and students that are in your district? And then what is your plan for using that to support or inform what types of trainings, what types of resources that you roll out, and then what type of accountability that you're holding for yourself and others to make sure that, over time, this work is centered, and then that this work leads to outcomes that you can, I think, be proud of? Because this is something that you really want to do for all students, because for a public school it's the mission of the public school is to serve all students.

Elana:

A hundred percent. But it's just so hard on so many different levels. And if we don't have awareness, like you said, we don't start that learning. And I think, I'd love to be able to surface up something that I think you wrote, and it is beautiful. You said, "We're always learning because our world is always changing." And you talked about, "As educators, we all call. We're lifelong learners. But we must acknowledge that our students have personal and collective histories that intersect with the lessons in our classrooms." And you talk so beautifully about that in the beginning is, "How do we activate their prior knowledge and their passions? And these experiences shape how students engage with us to ensure that we meet the needs of every learner. We must ask, 'Are we using every tool available to us, including equitable assessments?' Which you talked about. And I'd be curious if you have, maybe a link we can put in the Show Notes where people can explore. That's an entirely different podcast, equitable assessments. But are we using every tool available to us to create spaces in our learning communities where every student has a chance to be seen and share what they know and can do? And that is just -- I just think, "Well, that's so beautiful." And for those PBL type of teachers, that could be your driving question. You could start with that.

Erika:

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think what underscores that for me is that learning... The reason I'm a lifelong learner and the reason I think many of us are is that we find joy in learning. And if we can use everything that's available to us to help students find that joy, then we won. I mean, that's the key is that they go to school to learn, but they go to school because they want to learn because we've created this space where learning is relevant to them. It matters to them. They see utility in it, and they have fun doing it. And so, I think that happens with how you connect with students. It happens with how you use tools, even EdTech tools, or digital tools to create different spaces for them to create that are connected to your classroom, but might offer a little bit more flexibility on how they represent themselves and how they represent their ideas.

And so, I think if we can come to this work, any of this work when we think about meeting the needs of students and their families is like how do we -- If we center equity, we also center joy. And so how can we make learning lovely and make learning exciting, because we respected what you brought to the table and we used it and we amplified it and we made it matter because you matter? And I think when we can come to this work, we can start to at least note that we should reflect on what we're doing so that we can begin making change in this process.

Elana:

Yeah, beautifully said, really beautifully said. I think me and you are just getting into the tip of the iceberg in this conversation and we can just, for a couple of hours, by a fireplace, really get into it, and we'll have you on as another guest down the road. But given what we've talked about around equity, is there anything you want to just say to the educators or even tech folks listening that might help them or just... I love how you say it. It helps people be seen equity as well. And is there anything, a parting thought you want to tell our audience to wrap it up, or I don't know?

Erika:

Well, I think for both teachers and EdTech developers, you're designers, you're designing for a particular audience. For teachers, it's the students that are in your classrooms. And even when we talk to the principals and instructors, you're trying to design these professional -- or instructional coaches, excuse me -- you're trying to design these professional learning experiences, and then we're trying to think about how EdTech tools or digital tools can really facilitate these experiences that we have. But all of these learning experiences are happening because of people. And so, I think if we are going to make a commitment to building community within our school and across schools, is that we have to make a commitment to seeing people and seeing them as human, and seeing them as people whose life before we met them has really shaped them, and it's real. And it has been very challenging for many.

And so, if we can meet people and figure out how to bring ease to that relationship and ease to that experience and keep that front of mind, it helps us be more forgiving. It helps us be more open. And I think it helps us consider more people and then include a wider range of people in our circle, whether it's our social circle or it's our circle of testers for our tools. It triggers to us that we need someone with this experience or we need someone with that experience, because their experience really matters because it shaped who they are, and they matter. And so, I just think that people first is really the key to this work, because that's why we're educators and that's why we work in the spaces. I mean, we love people. We love learning. I mean, that's why we're here. And so anytime we can just think about who we're trying to serve, I think, it carries us a long, long way.

Elana:

Great. And thinking about loving learning, specifically, what we ask all of our guests is just, this work can be very full of joy like you talked about, but it also can be really challenging. You have those days where you just want to hit your head against your computer and say, "Why?" Or, "This is just too big of a problem." Or, "I'm not making much of a difference," like you said when people get frustrated about work and equity specifically. But what do you do personally when you have those days that you're just depleted, and something that is able to recharge you consistently?

Erika:

Oh, man. So I have -- I think I can say this. I'm addicted to television or shows. And I really love -- Okay, so I think one of the things that has happened over my lifetime is that shows have become more diverse, and we have access to stories from around the world, and I'm just all in it. And now that they dub in English, I'm like, "Yes." So I really just -- really, I think, I will sit down and find a mini-series or a short series on any streaming, and really watch and just take in the story about people's lives. And sometimes it's a story that they've overcome something, and sometimes it's just very lighthearted and they just start doing these things that are really interesting. So I definitely like that as my way that I de-stress.

Elana:

Any specific shows for those people that are like, "What is she watching?"

Erika:

I don't know. What am I going to say? What have I been watching lately? Ah. So I've been watching The Good Doctor. I've been into Korean dramas, so I watched the Extraordinary Attorney Woo. Oh my God, this brought me such joy. And I was like -- and you know, I don't speak Korean. You might not know. So I have to watch the subtitles, so I can't be doing something else. So it really is a full commitment. Those storylines are right on, because I'm, hey, watching very deeply. I'm trying to think of what else I've been watching. I don't know. I watched a little bit of everything, but I enjoy dramas and stories. And I mean, well, that being crazy. It's the holiday season, so I'm all on those Lifetime holiday romantic comedies, where I can literally predict what is about happen. She's going to fall off the ladder, but I'm still like, "Oh." So I'm enjoying those.

Elana:

Yeah. And for those of you listening that you're like, "Gosh, I don't have time for this or that." I want you to reframe and say you don't have time not to recharge. And you should never feel guilty about figuring out what helps you recharge and be the best version of yourself. Well, I'll throw in another episode. We talked to an educator named Tracy, and she said, "It's okay to say no to other things, but always say yes to yourself." So that's why I ask these questions to other people, because I find it so interesting of how people differently recharge and unapologetically recharge. This is helping. Sure, we can all go overboard. I spent three hours on a puzzle last night, but it helped. So Erika, I just want to thank you so much for -- I mean, I literally cold-DM'd this woman because I've been fangirling her on LinkedIn and said, "Hey, do you want to be on my podcast?" And she's like, "Sure." I just want to thank you for saying yes to this crazy person here. And thank you for sharing your knowledge and your passion.

And in the Show Notes today, we will put in any resources that you have around your companies. You have beautiful frameworks that I think can really open people's eyes on how do you get started, what are the tips, and things like that as well. You can access this episode's Show Notes at leoniconsultinggroup.com\39, so 39. And we'll put in not only the resources that Erika suggests and the things that I talk about, but we'll also provide a synopsis of what we talked about, too. So if you're busy on the go and say, "Oh, what did she say about this?" That's going to be your cliff notes around that. And the last question, Erika, is how can people get ahold of you and learn alongside you? You do so much out there. What's the best way for them to follow along with you?

Erika:

I think you can follow along with me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty much there, sharing what we're doing, and really celebrating the work of others. And then, I also have my show Remix EQ Live, which I think we're all learning together from the guests that are on. And so I think that's another place to connect, and then my website. And I'm happy to connect. I love people, so feel free to reach out.

Elana:

Yes. So I would say if you're looking, trying to stalk her on LinkedIn, go to Dr. Erika... Is it Dr. Erika D. Tate, or is it. --

Erika:

I think, Erika D. Tate.

Elana:

Okay. And we'll put it all in the Show Notes too. And then her website for Bluknowledge, and then Loravore. You can also just throw those in Google and you'll be able to find her. And she's got an awesome show called Remix EQ Live that I've already mentioned and go, "Wow, those are really interesting conversations." She has them on her website as well. And you go live on LinkedIn with those. Right?

Erika:

Yes. Yeah. So we'll be back in a few weeks to do some more.

Elana:

Yay. Well, thank you so much, and thank you all listeners for listening around sometimes a topic that feels nebulous, but you got to start somewhere. And hearing someone as passionate as Erika talk about the successes and really how to -- if you are truly here to bring joy of learning to others, you cannot not talk about equity in the classroom, because we all want to reach all learners. We want to empower all of them. And I get so, I don't know, just inspired again. And I hope that the educators listening, at least take a pause out of your busy day, or if you have a break coming up, or whatever it may be, and just think about it. And think about how can we get a cohort of people to think about it together potentially?

If you're an EdTech organization, I'd love you to think about who's not using the product, who is not at the table around product decisions, too. Those are really big questions. And if my product is designed to serve a certain segment of an audience, how can I potentially have it serve others in other ways if we feel like it's creating inequities unintentionally? So those are really big questions to ask. I thank you all for learning alongside all of us, and we will see you next time on All Things Marketing and Education. Take care.

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