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Episode 1426th October 2022 • Fellowship Of The Reel • Philip A. McClimon
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The Fellowship Of The Reel reviews

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SCREAM

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Tell us what you think of the movie. Would you give it a PASS, CONSIDER, or a RECOMMEND?

Have a movie to suggest? A comment to make?

You have ninety seconds. ACTION!

Leave us a voice mail

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Visit our Facebook page for updates, fun movie news, or just to leave us a comment.

Fellowship Of The Reel | Facebook

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To listen to all of Chris' picks, click HERE

To listen to all of Sherry's picks, click HERE

To listen to all of James' picks, click HERE

To listen to all of Phil's picks, click HERE

To visit the ARCHIVES and search by year, writer, director, genre, and principal actor, click HERE

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Want to learn more about Blake Snyder and Save The Cat Story Structure? Check out the book he wrote that has become oh, so valuable to us. Buy it almost anywhere.

https://books2read.com/u/bxr8yo

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Snyder's Genres:

MONSTER IN THE HOUSE - MONSTER, HOUSES, SIN

GOLDEN FLEECE - ROAD, TEAM, PRIZE

OUT OF THE BOTTLE - A WISH, A SPELL, A LESSON

DUDE WITH A PROBLEM - AN INNOCENT HERO, A SUDDEN EVENT, A TEST OF SURVIVAL

RITE OF PASSAGE - A LIFE PROBLEM, THE WRONG WAY TO FIX IT, THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM

BUDDY LOVE - AN INCOMPLETE HERO, A COUNTERPART NEEDED TO MAKE THEIR LIFE WHOLE, A COMPLICATION THAT IS KEEPING THEM APART EVEN THOUGH THAT FORCE IS BINDING THEM TOGETHER

WHYDUNNIT? - A DETECTIVE, A SECRET, A DARK TURN

FOOL TRIUMPHANT - A FOOL, AN ESTABLISHMENT, A TRANSMUTATION

INSTITUTIONALIZED - A GROUP, A CHOICE, A SACRIFICE (JOIN, BURN IT DOWN, COMMIT SUICIDE)

SUPERHERO - A POWER, A NEMESIS, A CURSE

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The Snyder Beats:

OPENING IMAGE

THEME STATED

SETUP

CATALYST

DEBATE

BREAK INTO TWO

B STORY

FUN AND GAMES

MIDPOINT (FALSE VICTORY OR DEFEAT BUT OPPOSITE OF THE ALL IS LOST)

BAD GUYS CLOSE IN

ALL IS LOST (OPPOSITE OF THE MIDPOINT, FALSE VICTORY OR DEFEAT)

DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL

BREAK INTO THREE

gathering the team

executing the plan

high tower surprise

dig deep down

execution of the new plan

FINALE

FINAL IMAGE

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"Welcome to the Show" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)

Extended license purchased.

Fade out applied.

Podcast recording overlayed onto track.

Transcripts

0:00

greetings realers my name is Philip and together with my wife Sherry and two of our friends Chris and James we're

0:07

Fellowship of the real four people who love talking about movies almost as much as we do watching

0:13

them we hope you will join us as we dig deep into cinematic masterpieces and some that are well maybe not

0:20

you have an opportunity to be the fifth host of our little show click the link in the show notes and leave us a voice

0:26

message telling us what movie you would like us to review you can also reach out on our Facebook

0:31

page Fellowship of the real from all of us at Fellowship of the real thanks for listening okay on with the

0:38

show are you recording this

0:44

studying a movie in the mechanical level really brings some Revelation

0:50

I believe that no one sets up to make a bed movie with the exception of

0:56

on paper this should work I just don't like it that's your own fault if you haven't

1:01

seen it play over budget start cutting scenes

1:07

even the actors don't know what that movie is about should I I wish I wrote that

1:15

the title with that movie's trash well told me a man it's good for you

1:22

okay here we are Fellowship of the real four friends in a movie uh we are continuing with our series of

1:30

Halloween movies once a week for Halloween for the month of October and we are up to scream

1:35

this was whose pick was this this was my pick this was James pick okay

1:41

this uh what when did this come out this came out 96 96. this is the reason I

1:46

picked it this one came out when I was the perfect age I was 13 14 at this time

1:53

and this one it came out around the holidays and just took off I think uh we were

2:00

talking about how many how many times have you seen a movie in the theater yeah I think I saw this one two or three

2:05

times really because we were kids you know yeah we just went off as a group so when you say perfect age you mean

2:11

perfect age for like for movies to have like an impact on you or particularly maybe like horror movies have an impact

2:16

I think all of the above and I think this one actually stands out as revitalizing the horror movie thing so

2:24

it was just it I was the perfect demographic for this movie so I figured when we're talking about October horror

2:30

movies this one for my generation really I remember when this came out how it was it was I remember thinking this is

2:38

genius you know that they've taken the whole history of of slasher horror

2:43

movies and boiled it down and made a movie you know with all the self referential uh parts to it and we will

2:50

get into that as we go but it's very playing with conventions yeah playing with conventions and met and how meta it is you know anyway I thought it was pure

2:58

genius and just we'll see if it if it holds up I mean uh I I generally like this movie

3:04

or whatever but no that's interesting that you say that for the perfect age because I guess I've had that a similar thought about a lot of movies and you

3:11

know it's got to be around the same time I mean we're around the same age pretty much so um this one is not I guess one of those

3:17

for me but yeah just I don't know I guess I I guess we talked about that before and I've definitely had that thought like certain movies I know have

3:23

a big impact on me right um and been there all in the mid 90s range you know so that was around the time where I was

3:30

just discovering my own stuff sure I think that's what it is yeah that's true and by that time that's when I started

3:37

to Branch out my older brother started showing me movies like Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs and that kind of stuff

3:42

and really opening it up but this was right about that time so I was just just

3:48

soaking all that in like a sponge and this one I still watch it yearly I don't know October movie

3:54

10 was the perfect age when I saw Jaws because it scared living [ __ ] out of me for years right I think I was five or

4:01

six when I saw jaws and I didn't get into water like bathrooms schools yeah I don't remember oh I'm a little bit older

4:08

it messed me we saw it we were in Ocean City Maryland on vacation and I saw it at the beach in a drive-in theater

4:15

okay so there was no swimming the rest of that vacation I that was don't because it's really cool she lived in Ocean City saw it on a beach and then we

4:22

vacation we lived in Maryland but we went down to Ocean City Maryland for a vacation and watched it on the beach yes

4:27

uh so like so I think they have these these watch parties where you can like sit on an inner tube out in the water

4:33

and watch it would you do that no oh yeah they do that in here don't they I heard about it I've never done it just

4:38

that's yeah I would not do that well like there's no one else with you no absolutely nothing there's no way nope

4:44

anyway so this uh this is James Pickens I think it's a I I think like I said I

4:49

think it was pure genius when it came out it uh so the domestic

4:54

it was 103 million domestic release and almost as much International 70

4:59

million for a total box office of 173 million on a budget of 14 million so this

5:08

absolutely killed it yeah this really I think it was an innovator as far as like

5:13

you said James said it reinvigorated uh because at that point slashers had sort of gone out and

5:19

horror became more sophisticated you know but rather than just a guy with a knife but this really put a Twist on

5:24

that and well okay I do not like the slasher movies at all like I may have

5:31

seen Friday the 13th I don't know uh all those Freddy and Freddy Halloween and

5:38

okay I saw Halloween on TV where everything's cut out the you know however when this came out I I actually

5:46

did like it yeah because I guess it's funny yeah I think it has enough humor

5:51

to break the tension order but yet the the one of the best thing is is you cut

5:57

I mean you're I remember the first time I watched it going the killer yeah it was very clever and I

6:03

I have there's so many Clues throughout that you're sitting there going oh he's got to be yeah no there's uh one of the

6:08

notes I have repeatedly is red herring red herring red herring when they when they submitted this to the MPAA uh it

6:15

kept coming back NC-17 R yeah and obviously for scary movies they're going

6:20

for PG-13 the producer went to the MPAA and said okay watch this as a comedy

6:28

yeah instead of a horror movie yeah PG-13 that's funny wow I did not say so

6:33

there is there is a significant amount of money I'm sorry it is but they were going for

6:39

it yeah okay but yeah it was watch it as a comedy movie okay there you go so they

6:45

didn't have to change any Clips pull anything they pulled a bit of blood out of it because there's a lot you know

6:50

yeah yeah uh I thought you're saying just watch like their perspective of viewing as a comedy change the the

6:56

writing because yeah that's kind of essentially it essentially did because there's so much of a comedic element to this movie that it's enjoyable like

7:03

Sherry was saying yeah and I don't know if you could with as much meta or self-reference

7:09

going on to slashers movies horror movies I don't know if you could pull it off without having a little bit of

7:14

tongue-in-cheek Comedy because yeah one or two of the references I think are

7:19

almost parody uh it's one especially but without humor I don't know that you

7:25

could pull off all this uh so yeah I agree because if you've tried to do it completely serious and

7:31

especially if you don't only have a few references then it's just going to come off as like you ripped them off right off as opposed to trying to pay homage

7:38

or something so yeah I think Matthew Lillard and Jamie Kennedy have a big part in that with the way they perform

7:45

yeah yes yeah characters yes and and it is almost unmatch because you know

7:50

one of the characters I can't remember his name uh is it Randy or whatever the guy yeah Jamie Kennedy playing video

7:57

story yeah yeah uh saying essentially it is you know you know the the rules I

8:02

mean so it essentially is a tip of the hat to everything that has come before which I thought also was was apparently

8:08

well I mean and this is jumping to the very very end but even when Matthew at the end is is dying and he's sitting

8:14

there cracking jokes with him I'm gonna be such trouble and all this stuff you know yeah yeah I'm sitting there oh yeah I'm just sitting there laughing and he's

8:21

my mom is going to kill me yeah I was like okay anyway sorry I know I dropped ahead no that's fine so I just thought

8:28

it was I mean yeah yeah especially Matthew I thought he was really funny

8:33

foreign throughout its history of reviews by

8:39

both audience and critics fairly fairly loved uh it's neck and neck Tomato Meter

8:44

for critics is 79 percent three and a half stars and above for critics and 79 for fans

8:50

uh three and a half Stars Above So generally still very well liked this movie yeah obviously spawned a

8:58

s the:

9:03

another one coming on it yeah it just came just came out like last year this is a recent one yeah that has uh 23. I

9:12

never Campbell and Courtney Cox they brought them back that's what yeah that's the one I saw and and yeah I was

9:18

disappointed a little bit but it was all right yeah I mean well after I watched this I had to watch two three and four

9:24

yes sir bad threes pretty I think one two and three are not bad

9:30

uh and then it gets into the newer generations and that's when it kind of lost me but as it should I was in my 20s

9:36

and 30s by then you're no longer like you were saying earlier no longer the demographic right yeah I don't think I

9:42

saw maybe I guess with the original cast like with Nev Campbell and stuff um I saw what is that one two and three and then maybe the new one because I don't

9:48

yeah I think that's what it is four or five no there's gonna be six because there's one that's supposed to come out

9:55

in:

10:00

but I think it was number four that I dropped out on that camera was in for or they made some without like her and

10:06

Courtney Cox or am I thinking of a different series they were all no they were all in them okay all right they're

10:12

not priced all that we I think we have one three four right yeah we bought the Box up and I had seen them all before

10:18

but I had after watch the first one like I said I had to sit and watch all of them except for the newest one which I

10:23

saw earlier this year and I I didn't like that one oh that's right the newest one was called scream yeah it's almost

10:29

like a reboot type thing know 25 years after I guess soft reboot is what they call them because where it's not like a

10:35

complete is that right soft reboot yeah because it has the main characters in it and then

10:41

um from the original but then you're introducing new new people yeah I saw this on a remake I saw something that uh David Arquette was in talks to play

10:48

Dewey again I'm like how many times does he have to get stabbed right in movies and be brought back I know he's a fan

10:53

favorite he's awesome but right come on if you want to win the next one stop stabbing him yeah

11:00

all right so we break these movies down according to the save the cat method which is 15

11:06

beats and you know we break it down and uh of course I we all did that and uh I

11:13

either forgot or was unaware because I made all my notes did all my homework and then I went to the to the book only

11:19

to find out that it was in the book so I I could have so sweet yeah so I could

11:25

have totally cheated on this but I'm kind of grateful I didn't because I want to compare how I saw it versus how

11:31

catboy saw it because catboy what was his name Mike Schneider Mike Schneider

11:36

save the cat uh very quick way to break down a story Phil and I've used this so much for our I guess our own stories

11:43

that we have a shorthand we call them I don't know who started but we started calling him catboy yeah because there's a picture of it's called save the cat

11:49

and there's a picture of the cat on the cover of the first book yeah so and it's not the definitive way to break down

11:55

movies yeah just a help away Lake Snyder's way and Phil and I really like it that's

12:01

it was just very quick to get a story yeah if you're having trouble

12:06

writing a story it kind of yeah what should happen now yeah what should and when and I guess one of the reasons we

12:12

like it so much Phil is um I guess because we've found that it you can apply it to like I guess I I

12:18

wholly agree with him there's only like 10 different genres of movies like all every movie ever made when can fit into

12:23

one of these 10 genres that he's kind of come up with and there is in the the Beats or or are very Universal and

12:30

there's you know people write movies without even never even heard of Blake Snyder and they they still hit some of these beats without even realizing there

12:36

are some differing opinions I remember like a long time ago I found a book that was

12:42

written a long time ago where the guy said there's only like 43 different stories or something so there is some

12:48

but I think when you start breaking it down that fine you are sort of overlapping and the differences are

12:53

minor sure so these 10 genres I think are the large broad

13:00

broad categories of all stories like you know you'd be hard-pressed to I think come up with something oh and

13:05

this genre is I don't think we said it it's monster in the house is the genre like which almost every horror movie

13:11

Falls and yeah into this yeah I was gonna ask I know I don't know how deep it is but is there a horror movie that's

13:17

not monster in the house oh I'd have to yeah like I feel like I

13:22

couldn't think of anyone uh just throwing that out there as a mind exercise for somebody because it I spent

13:28

a solid five minutes thinking about it well uh for monster in the house he talks about a monster you know the bad

13:34

thing uh the sin which has brought on the monster and it's gonna be a

13:39

contained and then a house usually which is like like a spaceship or the in this case it's the town and yeah yeah and and

13:45

of those three I think the house is the most like obviously it's a setting so

13:51

yes a house but it it the house can be anywhere or like aliens was a monster in

13:57

the house and there was on a spaceship yeah and the thing was on the yeah and

14:02

the monster can be anything in terms you know yeah so it's pretty abroad so generally all horror movies are monster

14:08

in the house I think so I mean there might be some yeah I'd have to look it's generally because

14:14

the evil thing or the thing that's terrorizing you like trouble in our own life is usually

14:20

generated obviously there's a cause and effect right so uh you know unless you want to talk about

14:27

just random evil you know the good person and all of a sudden I I don't know so but in terms of story uh yeah I

14:33

don't know I'd have to really yeah maybe Kevin in the woods I've seen it I think once but the with the the way that one

14:39

plays with the conventions too like I don't know if that's because they had people generating those yeah yeah like it probably still fits

14:46

but I was just thinking because that one's a little bit different right sure yeah I don't know mind exercise if anybody thinks of anything leave a

14:52

comment yeah for sure okay yeah uh but again yeah so monster in the house uh a monster a sin which

14:59

caused the monster and a house so we'll we'll break this down uh uh how we

15:08

saw it and then we'll see how Blake Snyder uh broke it down or whatever

15:13

because I I had trouble with this one um yeah because I

15:19

right off the bat I think movies like this sort of defy like structure is not like

15:26

there should be a science structure not necessary because it's basically a bunch of people running around screaming half naked people right

15:32

because people go to these movies to see people get stabbed I mean yeah because it's Primal right which and and Lake

15:39

Snyder talks about that but it's I think it's Primal right it's you know oh [ __ ] if there's some guy with a knife was chasing me what would I do like it you

15:45

know it evokes and so so certainly audience that's what horror works yeah audiences typically are not interested

15:51

in the character having you know a dark knight where he is digging deep down and

15:57

and rallying and you know they want to see the monster and people getting stabbed you know the terror the the fear

16:04

yeah and I mean I don't want to go down like a rabbit hole but I feel like um unless you're going to

16:10

like a drama right I would say any other genre the audience was probably not when

16:16

they're going to watch a comedy in action movie horror movie whatever I don't think they're necessarily thinking oh I want to see this guy grow I want to

16:21

see a character Arc but I think everyone enjoys that and that makes them to me the best movies have them yes right I

16:27

mean they enjoy them and it hits them in the fields and all that but they don't go into it thinking well I want the character so let me ask this question

16:34

like watching this movie did you like okay so you liked the characters but did you really give a

16:40

[ __ ] about any of them no you're like okay no he's the next guy's gonna get stabbed how's he gonna get stabbed you know that's the that's a perfect horror

16:46

movie it is uh unknown actors and I don't really give a [ __ ] about him however going back to Matthew Lillard

16:53

and Jamie Kennedy you enjoy watching every second throw on the screen just because they're energy but yeah you're

17:00

like oh well they're there always has to be an anchor character I think somebody has to be like Halloween and Jamie Lee

17:06

Curtis right so you you know you're rooting for her to stop this thing yeah you don't give it I I

17:12

couldn't care about any of the other characters you know I mean yeah in horror particularly for me like I care I

17:18

find myself I care the least amount compared to like the other genres for whatever reason um but like Ellen Ripley and alien I

17:24

cared about her more than I did you know Sydney Prescott um and Jaws I care more about Brody oh yeah absolutely yeah and I think those

17:30

are they're probably you know those have arcs right and they're they're have the rest of that stuff but most horror

17:36

movies don't and I'm not like knocking them that's just kind of the way most action movies don't have it either you know but yeah

17:42

um uh can I say this so um it's not that I cared about the

17:48

character or anything but I was totally shocked because to me if I remember

17:53

correctly Drew Barrymore was one of the people they had in the

17:59

trailer for The the movie and to me I was shocked I thought she was gonna this

18:06

is she was immediately this is my first note they they pull what I call a psycho oh for sure exactly because uh Janet Lee

18:13

right yeah Janet Lee Hitchcock totally floored the audience because Janet Lee obviously big actress at the time right

18:19

yeah yeah and she dies halfway through and all of a sudden you're like what yeah and that's how I was I'm like yeah

18:26

I thought she was the star of them she was in the trailer she's on the poster her face is the biggest on the poster

18:32

yeah and so I think that's that's very cool that's part of the I especially when it came out and I think it as a as

18:38

a study and as a homage to all that came before I think it it still holds up because that's got to be like there's no

18:45

way that that Wes Craven or or Kevin Williamson he wrote it but there's no

18:50

way they put Drew Barrymore in the beginning like that a major star and kill her and not think

18:57

psycho no that's interesting like um I just know I was thinking about back to our previous conversation about giving a

19:03

[ __ ] right like I cared more about Drew Barry more than I did because you latch on immediately yeah well then it's like

19:08

a 10 12 minute scene too like and that was still that's one things that held up still to this day to me like when we

19:14

watched I was like oh wow this opening is still like yeah that's why one of my rules for a good horror movie is unknown

19:21

actors because of you think we latched on because it's true very yeah specifically you have all that baggage

19:26

of seeing Drew Barrymore and all these different movies and then when you see her she's like oh yeah and then she's gone and then you're stuck with people

19:33

you don't know you don't care about and then you're settling I didn't think about that well Drew Barrymore is a

19:39

[ __ ] dead now who else do we got in this yeah about that yeah that's what makes a good

19:44

horror movie is to anybody well and it's and whether we as an audience even realize that we we subconsciously latch

19:51

on okay that's the guy that is gonna be the one I need to watch her that's the for sure you know in every movie that's

19:58

one thing's not to go down under the rabbit hole but there's one thing I liked about Joker with Joaquin Phoenix a lot was there were none of those

20:04

characters like you're forced to latch on to him and he's you know way mentally Disturbed and like I really like that

20:10

movie because of that because you're all right two hours you're gonna spin the whole movie with this guy yeah right and and yeah like the

20:16

audience doesn't have to you you'll latch on to the guy that you you start to feel is

20:23

the yeah you like the most or you genify in some way yeah and it doesn't necessarily have to be likable you know

20:28

uh okay so that yeah that was my first I I have it down as an extended prologue

20:33

pulls a psycho in a sense that a big star you think is the actor of the film is killed uh meta in the sense that it's

20:39

a slasher movie talking about slasher movies because that whole conversation many many conversations in this movie

20:44

make reference to slasher movies and I think uh well she lives or lives and dies by like trivia um play a game movie

20:51

trivia do you like scary movies right yeah right so very self-referment now I

20:57

have that is not necessarily the opening image because with the opening image It's usually the main character or hero

21:04

or before shot before shot of and then the closing image is how they've changed at the end and obviously Drew

21:09

maryborough does not make it to the end there's no after after shots right I

21:15

don't see that as a opening image agreed uh Blake Snyder has that as his opening

21:21

image a ringing phone an isolated house he says I bucked some Drew Barrymore which is absolutely true like this he

21:28

says like the starting point of many a teen horror movie uh this image is ripe with cliches but I don't think that

21:34

qualifies as an opening image opening image of the film sure but every movie has an opening in yeah I mean this is

21:39

his rules and his stuff and I hate to disagree with him but you know I do I'm with you Phil like it should be no if

21:45

Nev Campbell's the main star it's her opening image so I I see that as an extended prologue to set up the tone

21:50

maybe call it because it the the murder is referenced later when they're sitting around talking so I think it's set up

21:56

but I don't think it's an opening image uh I have is the opening image uh it's a

22:01

similar situation Sydney alone boyfriend Billy sneaks into the room dad investigates I couldn't afford I could

22:08

have sworn I heard screaming they'll even say scream or Screaming several times throughout the movie so nice yeah

22:13

um yeah at the end uh Stu says it's a scream baby when he Reveals His death

22:19

you know the kidnapped father or whatever so so this I think is her opening image she's she is innocent uh she hasn't had

22:28

sex with Billy yet wanting to maintain a PG relationship and he's wanting to take it to R right which I thought was cool I

22:33

like the the use of the the language in the movie ratings yeah but he says girls with morals and standards on top of the

22:38

clothes stuff your underwear rule you know and and later we'll learn that that is one of the

22:44

rules rules of horror movies you know no sex and have sex you die right right and

22:49

so he is trying to have you know sex with her and

22:56

if you haven't seen it by now a spoiler I mean he is one of the killers right so

23:01

he is trying we'll get to this but I think he is trying to have sex with her so that he can then kill her right like

23:06

I think that's part of his possibly well I mean I mean to I hadn't thought

23:12

about it but like why wouldn't you just kill her before then if it's not you know like yes well that's not the goal then you

23:18

kill her before right so right so so that was the thing when I thought about that when I couldn't figure out a structure for this movie from Nev

23:25

Campbell's point of view who who is held out as the main hero character or whatever I started I said okay well what

23:31

if this was Billy's story and and then it sort of lines up like Billy's story is much more structured than any other story in this

23:39

movie because it and it starts motivation way before the movie begins his Catalyst yep okay his setup is he's

23:46

got a good family his Catalyst isn't Sydney's mother sleeps with his dad and his mother leaves and he feels abandoned

23:51

and his break into two is he kills Cindy's mother well that all happens off screen so by the time we see Billy he's

23:57

already into his fun and games he's whacking people man you know yeah right so his story and and I thought that could work so I

24:05

guess that's true for every serial killer right I mean that you just said like they're they're they're always into the fun and games because right and and

24:12

a good writer like okay so every every character is the hero of Their Own Story the villain is the hero of his own story

24:18

correct but we are going along with the good guy right most of the time but but you save the cat or whatever he did yeah

24:24

so if the if the character is Well written he's gonna have all his Beats

24:30

too and I think I think he does the other summer and I think his story is actually more solid than any other

24:35

character in the movie because everybody else is basically running around screaming and scream whatever so um

24:43

anyway so yes I'm screaming in a movie called scream ridiculous it's just absolutely crazy so so yeah so I think

24:49

catboy goes off rails a little bit with this opening image because it doesn't I don't we'll get to see what his closing

24:55

image is because it has to be something else yes well along with his opening image of that with Drew Barrymore

25:02

can I just say who has open Windows like that where you

25:08

can see inside the house that that always creeps me out yeah you know that

25:13

okay yeah she's on the phone and he's like on the patio like yeah yeah where you can see the patio like there's like

25:18

wall the floor-to-ceiling windows yeah it's like um well it's it's yeah

25:25

by the pool right I mean that's why they're there right I mean realistic I mean is that what you're going to say like I think uh yes I I would so we can

25:34

see the boyfriend tied up in the chair sure and and it's why cops and firemen and TV shows don't wear

25:41

helmets when they're storming a building because you can't see the star's face right so at this point it's for camera

25:46

shots you know these have been shots through windows and okay and I can understand I grew about in in the

25:52

country and I guess you feel like in the country you don't have to worry about people looking in but the very fact that

25:59

he says that he's watching Sir and I'm sitting there going your windows are wide open right so I don't know I just

26:05

wanted to make that note yeah like I don't like the the blinds being open at night no because if the lights are on

26:11

it's dark outside you can see into the house very easily not not that I'm worried somebody's going to come get me it just mentally messes with me so like

26:17

as it gets darker I close the lunge yes because it's like you can't see outside when it's dark out there and it's like

26:24

they can see in because you have lights on yeah exactly interesting and I'm a curmudgeon I'd I'd close all the windows

26:29

and lock all the doors yeah hide in my cave right I just wanted to make that yeah no um and I think I I I'm sort of

26:37

glancing at his at his nose here I think Snyder holds this up as a monster in the house example maybe because it was so

26:43

popular probably around the time he was writing this book but I think he is having to reach a little bit too

26:49

to structure this because I don't think it is well structured in terms of uh the Beats or whatever

26:56

all right so any any other thoughts on opening image I think it does set a good tone with that extended prologue but I

27:01

don't think it serves as an opening image of a before a picture of the hero which I think is it's opening image obviously

27:08

for the movie but in the the town and kind of set up on what's going on but not enough for her not for her yeah yeah her her opening image is is innocent

27:14

virgin yeah yeah and she will not be that anyway the setup murder in small town Woodsboro

27:20

California Casey and Steve I guess with the two Casey was Drew Barrymore and Steve was the boyfriend uh uh hit the

27:27

movie uh splatter Movie killed even worse than and then you know so there's this there is reference to the backstory

27:33

uh sort of held up his mystery and we find out a little bit later uh high school kids uh you know

27:39

obviously you're gonna have your standard stock characters which are always high school kids and this kind of stuff uh Sydney the daughter of so

27:45

there's all these veiled references to Something in the past uh that this is similar to yeah that's one of the things

27:51

that bothered me because the the police were interrogating would they say students teachers and janitors yeah

27:58

which was a throwback to I think Nightmare on Elm Street yeah probably yeah Craven is the does a cameo as the

28:06

janitor but he looks like but he looks like Freddy he's called Freddy yeah at

28:11

that point I was like okay so the janitor who looks like that and dress obviously they're interviewing the

28:17

janitor right and the guy that you know gave him the

28:22

job like what are you doing right and then they and then they say that the you know Sydney Prescott daughter of it's

28:29

like okay but everybody in that room knows what the hell happened one year ago with her mom yes yeah so that was

28:35

just Exposition that oh for the audience but the characters knew yeah I hate when that happens I mean it happens in movies

28:41

but yeah try to it always bugs you yeah it's like yeah there was one you're only saying that from why benefit is the

28:46

audience you [ __ ] guys wouldn't even be having this conversation or you would have a completely different type of conversation because you all know the

28:51

information yeah that's frustrating yeah so um there's going to be lots of red herrings in this movie you know

28:58

false leads which when it first came out and you did and I didn't know I I was I was totally on board with that you know

29:03

yeah I thought that was done very well I wrote my my note here is the principle seems touchy there is this scene with uh

29:10

uh the prince yeah I couldn't think of his name where he where he sort of he's talking to one

29:17

of the girls and he sort of touches her and I thought okay that's uh he's a little creepy there and so you but I I

29:23

feel like that was done to sort of because you're going to get a lot of misdirection and I think that's a misdirection yeah to think okay well

29:30

this is this the guy is this even when he was threatening the students a little bit later who were running through the halls with the masks on he was

29:36

threatening him with scissors yes yes the principle with the scissors red

29:42

herring yeah so yeah you know uh which I which I thought was done well now it works one time good second viewing but

29:49

uh but I but I thought but when it first came out I think that was the appeal everybody was like oh you got to see

29:55

this you know and I thought it was done well the misdirection I just thought that the funds you know became a

30:00

principle later in life he could do what he wanted you know sure well I mean even to the point you're talking about

30:06

misdirection when they're in the the bathroom and you see the shoes come down well then later

30:12

on Dewey's talking to the police or Sheriff whoever it is he's got the same they start off the shot with his shoes I

30:19

was thinking at the end of the movie because I've seen this movie 20 plus times I was like man there must

30:25

be a store around there that specializes in those booths and everybody has those boots one of my notes is a sheriff has

30:32

same boots as Ghostface red hair you know so yeah uh nice yes very a lot of like like you said there's this is all

30:39

intentional the Billy Billy Sydney Stu Tatum and Randy are discussing the murder Sydney's mother is absent uh the

30:46

setup mystery is deja vu all over again so there's absent father's absent I

30:52

I have Sydney's mother is absent to set up mystery uh like one of the mothers yeah Dad the

30:58

father right right but we don't know I don't know I don't think we know that at that point right okay all right I'm just making sure that yeah yeah because your

31:04

father does go absent later on but they keep referencing oh that's right yeah they keep referencing something with the

31:10

mother but you don't know that it's yeah murder right right okay yeah we've seen him so many times yeah I didn't catch it

31:15

yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's how it was the first time yeah yes all right uh this is still set up um with her dad out

31:23

of town Sydney makes arrangements for Tatum to stay with her for the weekend all right then and then reporter Gail weathers shows up and she gives us this

31:30

info dump which is not done terribly I mean it wasn't a bad way to do it uh gives us backstory

31:37

on Sydney and her mother with cotton and all of that did you notice who another one of the reporters was yeah I did

31:43

that's Linda Blair oh no I did not notice that I thought you're talking about the other one then the Blair from like Terminator

31:50

oh oh what oh wouldn't she who was you're thinking maybe Linda Hamilton yeah Hamilton yeah yeah yeah yeah Linda

31:57

Blair I found that out last night upon my last viewing of this my girlfriend was like oh that's that's her I'm like

32:03

huh yeah I found it out because uh his catboy talks about it in his Beats like once I read the his Beats after after

32:10

watching the movie I realized oh [ __ ] completely mystery yeah I did not I I just had to throw that in because she was one of the first reporters I think

32:17

that showed up but her uh what I thought you were gonna say sure is the the cameraman that's with Gail the the guy

32:22

yeah he's um I don't remember his name but he was he's been in a lot of stuff with him the elephant he was the and

32:28

Justified he was the I knew he looked he was the girl the guy that takes some uh takes the kind of the office hostage and

32:36

I don't know and he keeps calling raelyn shooter and raelyn ends up getting him some spicy chicken

32:42

oh yeah I meant to look him up because I was like he looks so they were Deadwood together and they're also in Mandalorian

32:48

together as well I remember oh oh oh yes okay okay I I was going to the reporter

32:53

in the second order yeah because I'm like the one who gets his throat yeah in the van yes he gets killed in the van

32:59

he's like later on it's a black guy right now I'm sitting here thinking the black guy but that's not no that's in

33:04

the second one yeah yeah I know I know you're talking about he was in Something About Mary as the brother that's where I

33:12

have other beans okay yeah nice I forgot that was him

33:20

yeah anyhow very good very good character actor yeah you know I like it he's literally hooked up his name and I

33:25

did not I apologize yeah no no that's fine uh Sydney's mother was found raped and murdered just one year ago cotton

33:31

revealed as the killer based on testimony from Sydney uh Gail weathers has a theory that Sydney got it wrong

33:38

um this is what I have as a setup uh and then I I have a catalyst

33:45

this is what catboy has as a setup uh the sin the Drew commits uh is dying is

33:52

denying she has a boyfriend so she can flirt with her mystery collar that's the sin of this movie apparently the

33:58

punishment is death both her jock boyfriend and Jew are sliced up and Left 4 Dead Drew's parents find her

34:04

this 12-minute sequence and the table for what set the table for what follows we meet Sydney who's a virgin Nev

34:11

Campbell uh her single dad is getting the murder of Sydney's bomber for one year ago she's getting over it

34:17

she's joined by Billy uh the killer but for now he's just James Dean like

34:22

boyfriend who wants to take the relationship to Fiji another so I don't know that that's okay because the sin is

34:27

not Drew Barrymore flirting with that's not the cause of right of the monster right

34:33

so catboy I think must have had a late press date for this book and was rushing because I don't I totally discreet yeah

34:40

it seems like the sin the ultimate sin was just sex originally with Billy's mother and that's what I was gonna say I

34:46

mean flirting pretending you don't have a boyfriend or denying you have a boyfriend so you can flirt with somebody else I mean that's all

34:52

flirting you know can lead to sex right so I guess I feel like maybe that's what he's getting at like because all these

34:58

you know like we talk about the teen horror movies once you have sex you die right well yeah even the the backstory with

35:04

Billy right about his it was an affair thing right and so I mean he was abandoned where

35:11

Sydney was not abandoned and raised by you know yeah so the the sin brings the monster and the sin that brought this

35:17

monster was adultery and and the breakup you know home recording about a boyfriend so you

35:23

can flirt with somebody else that there's under the same umbrella as adultery I think is what he's maybe getting at

35:28

you know what I mean again it's the wrong character yeah yeah I mean that's fine I think the killer I

35:36

gotta mention yeah so to me the cast I have is the killer calling uh Sydney

35:41

yeah that's exactly what I have Catalyst Ghost Face call Sydney Sydney attacked in Philly calling her right because of

35:48

the backstory yes yeah so that yes and so she doesn't know what's going on at the time but yeah so no reason she's

35:54

targeted this is why Billy has the stronger story he's got this plan and he's putting it in motion right right he's crossed into the second act so when

36:02

we meet Bill he's in his second act yeah right and and Nev the hero is is a fun and game at this point

36:08

um but most like I said basically the First Act of his story takes place off camera you know in

36:15

terms of the structure or whatever yeah his his First Act was one year ago yeah essentially absolutely yeah so anyway

36:21

well no because it comes out that Billy killed Sydney's mother

36:27

right yeah so that happened a year ago so his plan has been in place over a year yeah it's

36:34

the anniversary of the mother's death so I think

36:46

and and I guess that didn't solve his right yeah it was just like Batman first

36:52

time you just say you know so solves a crime or stops crime like that's it's not over like he keeps going and his

36:58

funny games are stopping all the the crime yeah Dev is still walking around uh I mean so so he's her boyfriend not

37:05

out of any kind of devotion but as uh maneuvering her into position to they had a toy with her and mess with

37:11

her right yeah so catboy has the Catalyst uh Nevin pal

37:17

they're learning of the murder the night before and uh Gail with us is on hand Deputy Dewey the school was shocked by

37:22

Drew so I guess he has the death as the catalyst uh which I guess I could see

37:29

but is in terms of Nev's story if she's the hero it's got to be because at this point

37:35

someone's been murdered okay but that doesn't necessarily mean that all their lives are in danger yeah like if it was

37:41

her best friend or something then maybe that's different my best because the cattle specifically something happened to the hero something's taken from the

37:47

hero yeah yeah we're here the phone call is what happens like getting killed it's

37:52

not her friend if it had been the rose or gallons yeah characters she arrives to the school found out about the

37:58

murders she was uh Drew Barrymore's character Casey was

38:03

Sydney's uh classmate they sat right next to each other okay so that does mess with her uh yeah okay

38:10

Casey was the ex-girlfriend of

38:18

they're talking about that yeah yeah didn't you date her yeah for like a minute okay yeah yeah and if I was

38:25

what's her name Rose McGowan's character I don't know her name the Tatum Tatum yes if I was Tatum I'd have been like

38:31

wait a minute my boyfriend's ex-girlfriend just got brutally murdered yeah uh well you know right alarm Bell maybe

38:39

one or two sure except that you know her job is to wear that tight half shirt you

38:46

know that she does yes yeah I remember having such a crush on her when I was no no she's and now I look at I mean

38:52

beautiful woman just not my style now well this is not that kind of podcast where

38:58

I'd say a lot more you know right yeah the Buxom blonde yeah yeah fodder for

39:04

stabbing yes okay all right so I did forget some of that but still like we didn't see that right part of the

39:11

setup and like if this was going to be the setup would need to be show how close good friends they were show them

39:16

sitting next to each other right which ruins the whole the brilliant prologue but um or have I have put Nev in the

39:24

prologue and she runs away or some [ __ ] you know what I mean and escapes right so yeah I mean I think the phone call is

39:29

more powerful than the yeah she was in a classmate yeah because she goes home after that day of school goes home and

39:34

then that's when she gets the actual phone call yeah yeah so that so there is a debate like is Billy uh who is the

39:42

killer you know horror movie so there is a debate section he's got all kinds of things I

39:51

the video store Clark and all of them so I think he he gets that you know obviously because there are sitting

39:56

around debating things or whatever anyway so I'll I'll yeah I guess my check I had part of the pages like you

40:02

know who could she trust who's the actual killer and then it starts to come you know she started like is is cotton

40:07

innocent actually right like who is the real killer of her mom yeah yeah is her

40:12

is her mom's killer still out there right yeah because at some point she'll start to doubt yeah I think yeah you saw

40:19

someone leaving that with Cotton's coat and planted it and yeah there's a lot of Doubt placed in her mind so it's

40:26

yeah the real killer is still out there yeah we already talked about the principle of

40:32

the scissors there's a scene so they're like I said there's a lot of red herrings Billy is arrested he shows up uh and

40:38

they've been caught uh Dewey finds the suit and uh Billy is is taken in for questioning and eventually arrested yeah

40:45

because that's the initial phone call where Sydney finally talks to the killer Yes yes and busts out of the closet well

40:53

can you see me what am I doing she's picking her nose it's doubting that it's not just it's just a prank and all that

40:59

yeah she thinks it's Jamie Kennedy or Randy Randy you gave yourself away blah blah blah and then the killer busts out

41:06

of the closet chases her around yes disappears and then we have and he shows up you

41:13

know and Dewey with the costume yeah and so Billy's arrested and this will cause Nev to debate you know

41:21

Billy she at this point she's made her decision Billy is the killer but while Billy's in jail the killer calls

41:26

somebody right uh false Tatum's house calls Tatum's house okay after the after Sydney punches Gail

41:32

boom oh yeah [ __ ] went down I'll send you a copy boom yes

41:40

super [ __ ] here's where we see like I said I have an almost parody we see Jenner named Fred dress like Freddy

41:46

Krueger I didn't know I didn't know that was Wes Craven or whatever yeah uh now we were initially led to believe that

41:52

the principal might possibly could be the guy but that is quickly taken off the table as the principal is killed uh

41:59

well they called in to uh after all the the pranks and everything and Sydney's

42:05

chased out of the bathroom yes they called uh not quarantine but uh curfew

42:11

curfew yeah they called curfew so everybody's gone home the principal's there alone yeah and gets the knocks on

42:19

the door and sees his janitor Fred mopping right yeah

42:25

uh more Debaters to the killer Randy is Randy is convinced as Billy he actually has it right you know well

42:33

but he he has it right because he's jealous of Randy and Nev right like he doesn't have a thing for oh yeah for

42:40

Sydney yeah Cindy yeah right so he I think he hates Billy not because he thinks he's he wants him to

42:46

be the killer to get him out of the picture I think uh repeatedly the father is held out as a suspect because they

42:52

cannot locate him and eventually find that he is not where he said he was going to be and we will find out later

42:57

why or whatever again we see the sheriff has the same boots as Ghostface that we saw in the bathroom

43:03

uh there are some references here to other movies prom night and the town that dreaded Sundown which I have not

43:08

seen uh but they they they make reference to both of those uh and that

43:14

is what I have is the First Act and and very tentatively so because like I said I

43:21

could not necessarily nail down hard beats he has uh he says at the 25 minute Mark the

43:28

mysterious caller wakes Nev drawing her into an upside down world of act two

43:34

that's just breaking it too yeah um nav does what she says only dumb girls in these movies do run up the stairs

43:40

instead of sprinting out the front door never saved by skeet who props pops open

43:45

her window claiming he heard the Ruckus uh never fear uh Deputy Dewey arrives to arrest him so that's

43:52

the break into two and uh do we arrest them based off like Evan I'm trying to remember evidence that he found because

43:58

he found the stuff or was it like did Sydney go no no no you need to arrest him like did she push for skeet to be

44:04

arrested I think she she suspects strongly and she he drops his cell phone

44:11

and he's like yeah yes because later the phone calls are being made yeah yes but later we find out that the call the

44:17

phone is traced to her father well it's they do they they copied it's not his fault his phone but they copied it

44:23

somehow um but apparently back then did a lot of

44:28

people not carry cell phones cellular phone yeah yeah that's always a

44:33

big deal yeah and and because the sheriff says why do you have a phone yeah and of course nowadays it's like

44:40

why do you not have a phone all these kids would not be debating the killer they'd all be sure yeah when Stacey's

44:46

never watching it like I thought she's like ruined the whole thing because we couldn't remember and so like as before

44:51

like the phone falls out like when I think when the killer was chasing into the house so she's like how's this guy calling her because he's

44:58

got all these up to this point all the calls are on the landline right yeah and we're like okay well they had two lines

45:04

in the house so that means God would have to be in the house I was like [ __ ] did you just ruin scream and they make five of these freaking things it was

45:10

just we literally couldn't remember and then when he Stu shows up and uh the phone falls out I'm like because I was

45:15

thinking because there's been no cell phones in the movie up to this point so I was like was this before cell phones the cell phone falls out I'm like oh

45:21

okay cool all right yeah that's your Rune screen which was going to be hilarious to me I still have to recall

45:26

that I'm remembering this movie after years and years of watching it oh yeah

45:32

years and years and years and watching it 20 plus years of multiple viewings I yeah I never thought about that oh

45:39

yeah cell phones they weren't a thing right cell phones really made it hard on

45:44

writers because so many problems can be solved by the [ __ ] self so you're always like in these movies you always

45:50

have to there's always an obligatory scene now yeah well why the cell phone I get into bars always I got no bars okay

45:55

yeah you have to have that so that they couldn't get out of it because if not we'll solve this in five minutes right just like Throw Mama From the train he

46:02

keeps calling from a um a phone booth Danny DeVito keeps calling from phone

46:08

booths and I'm like oh they're not there anymore so yeah but uh yeah right but

46:14

yeah when you he he did say cellular and I I kind of giggled every time they would say cellular phone no I think like

46:21

I always just say smartphone I don't even know nobody says cellular maybe they'll say cell phone but it just

46:27

where's my phone off yeah now it's just where's my phone I don't even know that I I mean yeah because I don't even think

46:33

we don't even have our landline hooked up do we we have I know we have our phones but

46:40

not the landline they don't have your phone yeah it's all so yeah I mean we do have a home phone

46:45

but it's through this Magic Jack it's a portable it rings to my cell phone nice anyway uh we'll be in the living room

46:52

and text slate on his phone who's in his bedroom oh ridiculous yeah we do that all the

46:57

time I'm in here texting him who wants to shot across the room that's

47:03

just rude and it was all that to say that I guess the his breaking two is even weird too and I hate to just pass

47:09

on catboy but because the breaking the two is the character deciding something after the debate yes something happened you debate about what am I gonna do

47:15

about it you make a decision to do it yes her getting a phone call that's something happening to her that's passive that's not her taking action

47:21

yeah she's got a running [ __ ] but like that still that's reacting to what happens yes it's like that's what I was

47:26

thinking and if she made the decision oh [ __ ] I think my boyfriend's a killer arrest him then at least that's some

47:32

sort of yeah well that was one thing I don't think I I don't think there's really a proactive character

47:38

right they're all just running around and screaming it's all react react react which is a strong character at some

47:44

point has to turn the tables or start to right and I don't know that that ever really happens

47:49

and in slasher movies that's not necessarily a prerequisite uh

47:55

you know yeah you have to make it I mean yeah make it the main character makes a

48:01

decision to act twice in a real real in a well-structured movie in the break into two and then the break into three

48:07

right right uh yes um so I have the break into two as preparations are made to protect

48:13

themselves so they're all getting together having a party Tatum is going to stay with nav right so protect

48:18

themselves by getting drunk oh just staying together okay yeah uh I

48:24

was like fortifying the house would be one thing yeah because because uh is I guess Randy is on the the the

48:29

breakdown I don't know that anyone takes it seriously but he gives them the rules yeah no they're watching a horror movie and he's giving a class right and

48:36

they're watching all the Jamie Lee Curtis movies yeah yeah minus uh trading places where she finally goes topless

48:43

yes that's the whole conversations why have all these have Jamie Lee Curtis she's the extreme Queen yeah right

48:51

yeah so um still doing it actually oh yeah Halloween kills you know just came out but I need to at some point I mean

48:57

in excuse me and yeah uh Halloween Halloween kills and Halloween ends are the new ones with

49:03

her let's just say this is not a podcast where we should review that damn all

49:08

right damn uh you don't know man we may decide to do like a bit where like all four of us pick like the worst movie

49:13

we've ever seen and how could all of us pick bird dimmick oh my God yeah yeah

49:20

sorry uh no sex no drugs and no I'll be right back Sydney and Tatum Stay

49:26

Together Randy teaches the rules so this is what I'm having as as a break into two of sorts because like I said that's

49:32

so late right right um and then the fun and games Tatum is

49:38

killed Billy arrives late to the party uh Sydney and Bill Sydney and Billy talk Sydney

49:45

again a self-reference this isn't a movie Billy this is all one great big movie Billy says to Sydney you know so

49:51

uh in his mind although that probably works right because yeah you know he's instituting his plan he probably sees it

49:58

as one big Revenge drama you know right even just yeah we're talking earlier he's the hero

50:04

of his own story and so yeah he's in his you know funny games or whatever at this point uh

50:09

I didn't ever I didn't pick a b story necessarily he uh he has the Love Story concerns Nev and her dead mom and his

50:17

spurred on by Courtney uh I guess uh Gail as the current murderer and her mom's entwine

50:23

never learn about Mom and herself I guess I can buy that last part because

50:28

Nev does undergo some kind of change from seeing how thinking her mom

50:34

was perfect to realizing because when Billy says you know your mom spread her [ __ ] all over town she's not buying that

50:41

well Tatum tried to tell her that they're on the porch after school one day of you know you can only hear a

50:47

rumor so much before you start thinking yeah true and you know did you ever

50:53

really think maybe your mom yeah was unhappy and your dad's gone all the time so yeah

50:59

Sydney thought her mom was on the moon yeah right so

51:04

all right so if you wanted to and I didn't think of that until just now that you're saying it James uh you could

51:12

structure the story as a transformation from a daughter's Awakening to uh the

51:18

reality of of her mom you know going from naivete to awareness that people

51:24

will disappoint you and aren't always as you know sure and you know now is that

51:29

the intention of Wes Craven and no I think they wanted a knife and blood if they did it's weak as hell that was the

51:35

I mean they put that in there so I'm sure that's kind of their thought yeah it was it's just weak the other the other one that that bugged me was after

51:43

uh skeet billy gets out of jail yeah and you know he's got the fingerprints and

51:49

all that no it couldn't have been me and blah blah he literally tells her your

51:54

mom died a year ago maybe it's time for you to get over it I'm like I would have told him did well she she did it she

52:01

sort of yeah I can't remember what she said but she reacts doesn't she doesn't she a little bit you know I can't believe you're gonna be telling me that

52:07

I'd be like dude if anybody told you you know she punched Gail I I think I'm thinking Billy's getting punched at that

52:13

point yeah the killer him being relationships over and then when he shows up at the party later yeah they're

52:19

like what the [ __ ] are you doing here like I told you to kick bricks right that relationship would have been over

52:24

she should have stood her ground but I think like you were saying the naivete is yeah well she wants there is I think

52:33

some of the peer pressure and wanting to you know be accept you know be accepted

52:40

by Billy uh I don't know the typical teenager stuff you know what you don't drink what you're not having sex yet and

52:46

you're still a virgin yeah all that's yeah and so she is invested in the relationship clearly well not clearly we we don't

52:53

know he's the killer right off but like she wants to be in love with Billy and Billy and we find out yeah I guess that

52:59

no feelings whatsoever she he is I guess it all falls I just thought about it falls all under this umbrella of how

53:04

naive she is right she doesn't want to admit to her mom you know could have had you know yeah you know adultery she

53:10

doesn't want to admit that her boyfriend could be this killer and right I mean it's all you know she's like arrest him

53:15

she's yeah very wish washy and then yeah change her mind so much she does end up

53:20

having sex right yes yes um yeah more fun and games Stu and Billy

53:26

killer number one and two um Stu does not care about like at some point when Tatum is killed someone says

53:33

well I haven't seen Tatum in a while you know and Stu just doesn't care well she's he said some off the oh she's mad

53:39

at me she probably took it off yeah yeah yeah so do we think Billy killed Tatum and like I mean so maybe yeah or

53:46

something with it so yeah so then Stu like does I mean if you did care right even though he's a psychopath yeah like

53:51

did he really want to go out to the girl like he knew what happened to her they were in this together so maybe he's avoiding the garage for a reason he want to go out there and see his girlfriend

53:57

dead you know yeah maybe he knew I've watched this movie so many times and I

54:02

can probably break down which is it still stu oh nice yeah cause I was wondering nice which one uh the only one

54:10

that I can't pinpoint is the bathroom scene when uh Sydney's chased out of the bathroom in the high school yes I think

54:17

that's just a prank I think that's neither who killed Drew at the beginning

54:22

so they were both there oh nice Stu and Billy are both there in most of these occurrences okay all right uh I think

54:29

they're corralling her yeah I could get moved so fast yeah the one that actually stabbed her was Billy but

54:35

they both hung her up in the tree nice okay so that in the very next scene when the the kids are all at the fountain

54:41

tuck and slice and dice and all that and he's talking about oh it's easy you just stick it in because he had just done it

54:48

okay because I was wondering like oh who who what's that what's the body counter for stew and Billy you know what the

54:54

telltale signs are Billy tends to choke his victims and use one hand yeah Stu

55:00

tends to go with the double over the head stabs wow that's like the that's

55:05

let's go have to go back to what points that I see that's good yeah

55:11

so uh but to go back since I'm just ruining it for everybody anyway when

55:17

Billy first arrives at the house after Drew Barrymore's murder Billy first arrived Stu is there

55:23

kidnapping the father they're both there at the house at the same time oh yeah then he goes to

55:29

Tatum's house Billy shows up in her window yada yada okay when Billy is

55:34

arrested when Dewey gets catches him Matthew Lillard was the one hiding in the closet Billy calls Billy's usually

55:42

the one on the phone Stu's usually the one okay disguise yeah but yeah so when Billy's arrested though some the killer

55:49

calls so that's that's that's stew yeah yeah calling yeah yeah at that time but

55:54

also Billy I guess because right after they have sex then she's I guess kind of if you could have an all his lost moment

55:59

for for Nev it's when she was he used his one phone call in prison to call her right yeah yeah remember that right yeah

56:06

see she questions that and he and he has something to say about that uh he called his father wouldn't answer or something

56:13

yeah it was [ __ ] though right because he used that to make one of those he probably called Stu and said Stu call her yeah because he didn't have

56:20

the equipment to do the yeah to make the voice my thing yeah because uh he yeah because at that point that's

56:27

what she figures out though right yeah yeah so okay I think so Billy has

56:32

sex with Sydney breaking the first rule so now Sydney has is not has lost a layer of protection so to speak this is

56:38

what I'm talking about like like why didn't he kill her I think I don't know that he's obeying the rules but I think

56:44

he wants to break her down piece by piece and you know have sex with it and kill her you know sure well and uh for

56:52

all under the the revenge for the way her mom was in committing adultery um well I guess I don't train your mom's

56:58

gonna say she's pure I guess right but it's an adultery she's sleeping with a boyfriend but yeah right no but uh I

57:05

think Billy is that sadistic in that yeah like it's yeah I don't know maybe

57:10

he's like he wants to hear all sex to him is it's it's like yeah he's it's uh

57:17

he wants to just destroy he doesn't want to just kill him yeah yeah you know because this is his issue this is like

57:22

this abandonment and his mother I mean I think he's got the strongest motivation I think he's got the strongest story you

57:28

know yeah anyway Brandi has left alone okay all the everybody they get the the news that the

57:35

principal's body has been found on the goal post or something everybody leaves and Randy is left alone has all rushed out to the scene where

57:41

the principal's body has been found yeah Randy's talking to the TV he's right behind you Jamie's right behind you yeah

57:47

because Gail has planted a camera and said the cameraman is watching this is I still have my fun and games right so

57:53

he's he's got a big paragraph uh he's got as a midpoint the fun and games culminates with the death of the

58:00

overacting Mr Winkler and just in time cornered in his off so he's got the midpoint as the death of Henry Winkler

58:05

and I'm way past that right I mean we're yeah yeah but is it the death or the the finding because those happen at two

58:11

different times the principal gets stabbed uh cornered

58:17

in his office the principal is stabbed by the real ghost mask killer right which definitely raises the stakes of this mystery not to mention not one more

58:23

person off the list yeah that could be the half the halfway point midpoint and then the party

58:29

happens it's so weird though his Beats aren't happening to a main character they're happening to a town like the

58:34

opening image was with Drew Barrymore the Catalyst was um was uh was her getting killed right

58:41

and then the mid midpoint is the principal getting killed yeah where is everyone where's Sydney in all of this

58:47

right so I because the midpoints a false Victory or false defeat for the main

58:52

character so yeah what I don't know I would be hard-pressed to decide whether

58:58

that was a defeat or a Victor like how could it be a victory I must have had one of his assistants do this you know do the Scream one yeah I don't know why

59:05

like scream is a great movie but I don't agree with the way he broke it down so yeah and I uh which is one of the cool

59:12

things about this because there's been times when you and I don't agree right we just use these and then try to break crack a story so that's cool but um and

59:19

to be fair uh people who go watch Scream aren't

59:25

interested in a epic right sure they want it's a largely a fun and games

59:30

movie and that's what you go for that's that's what I'm absolutely right and I still love it for that you know quotable

59:36

fun yes yeah that's why we talked about earlier the the beginning of this yeah they're not going in there looking for

59:42

some great character arcade yeah I want to see some guy I've changed or some chick you know

59:47

is that a plus I think so yeah but enjoy movies more when they have it but it

59:52

doesn't mean I can't enjoy a movie that doesn't have it right right um and I think I think screen pulls it off with enough entertainment factor

59:59

that for sure you know and there's enough you know all the the funds that we're talking about the red herrings and the you know the reveals

::

um the reveal is a big part of horror movies oh yeah you know if you nail that that makes it this has a great reveal

::

yeah no I I thought this was yes I thought it was like I said I thought it was genius when it came out everybody

::

did 175 million on a 14 million budget everybody that's a lot of word of mouth

::

telling people to go see this movie yeah absolutely like I said I think I saw it three or four times in the theater on

::

their cellular phones right well there was there was a movie with uh Kim Basinger called cellular where she's

::

kidnapped them right yeah and the whole thing is the cellular she's cellular I'm

::

not kidding that's not that's that's even hard to say it is yeah just anyway uh

::

yeah so he's got the bad guys close in is the party now um I can see that

::

which okay all right I think the bad guys have been closing in since the first 30 seconds of this movie right but

::

and then All Is Lost which on some level I could see yeah agreeing to have sex

::

with skeet as the All Is Lost because at that point she has forfeited her you know card you know

::

um yeah the house is abandoned and Nevers alone Dark Night of the Soul yeah well that

::

will you you have sex with a guy and then you immediately afterwards realize that he you were right the whole time this guy is is a killer that's when you

::

asked a major that's when you ask hey what'd you do with your phone calling right number four after yeah

::

lady come on yeah yeah so uh

::

so this is the time when uh Dewey and Gail are got a report of the car and the

::

Ravine up the street yeah the kids are leaving the house almost hit him yes and uh cameraman is killed yeah and they're

::

rolling around in the bushes together yeah the one thing that bugged me uh and

::

this was the recent like the last two or three watchings of scream Gale weathers is not a nice person never treats Dewey

::

nice she's manipulating him and using him the whole time how that turned into

::

a relationship in the sequels they're in relationships on and off again right in

::

in part two they've broken up because she is manipulative and mean now Dewey will say now they get back together I

::

think yeah but but yes and Gail does show in the seat in part two a little

::

bit of heart and regret at how she treated Dewey well she but she's like the first chick showing him like attention right even if it is being

::

manipulated because the rest of the world and the girl especially girls are laughing at him right oh Deputy Dewey

::

and all this [ __ ] he even says you know when I'm wearing this uniform you have to listen to me talking to me like

::

a man of the law that's right Mama said it your mama said so yeah she was just

::

and I think Courtney Cox took this role specifically uh as

::

the other side of what her friend's character was yeah so she could be a [ __ ] so she I never noticed it before

::

because I was just a young innocent teen just thinking all that but looking back

::

she did a great performance in that because she was not likable at all right manipulative and it came across well and

::

I give her more credit in this movie than most everything else sure now there's a movie like I want to say it's

::

was there a movie where she started with Bruce Willis where she was she's working at a motel or in some small town or

::

something Courtney Cox yeah uh three thousand a great three thousand miles to Grace I

::

bet it was I bet that not Bruce Willis because Russell and Costner because there's a scene like you want to talk

::

about the opposite of Courtney Cox you remember the scene I'm talking about the yeah she's the cowgirl

::

yeah she's a little hot under the couch yeah she's not it's not missionary okay and she's going to town and I'm like

::

Courtney oh my God so but yeah so I give her more

::

credit in this movie I think than I ever have before sure you know I mean and Jennifer Anderson did the same thing

::

like uh it was a little bit later but like the Horrible Bosses there's nothing right yeah I feel like like any actor

::

that plays like a character for a really long time I think they get worried about being Typecast and the audience only seeing them as that character so they

::

try to Branch out do different things and they're probably even like as a challenge maybe they're kind of bored of playing the same you know type of

::

characters completely different in the actor all the time let me play it back or whatever yeah I think I think most

::

characters or most actors that are on those sitcoms for years and years and years they just slowly die inside yeah

::

we're getting paid millions and million dollars an episode probably helps though right no but it does but then that's

::

probably a big part of it though too I'm dying inside creatively all this stuff and pay me more money if I'm gonna keep doing this I want more money the friends

::

that by the end of that show were making lots of money per episode I mean and they negotiate together like they went

::

and said you're gonna all pay us equally and it's going to be an insane amount of money we're [ __ ] done and the

::

producer's like uh here's your check yeah but then afterwards you know Matthew Perry and sure all it's like

::

what did they really do after that he went to rehab Matthew Perry yeah I think I mean home on yards yeah the whole nine

::

yards whole 10 yards I love those those are great movies you know anyway I would digress no that's fine uh

::

yeah so some of this like Dark Knight of Soul if you're talking about Ned's story you know okay whatever I guess I get it uh

::

by choosing to have his break in the three is to have sex and die rules the movies now he she has entered the

::

monster's secret world he says okay maybe I mean but she she's had sex

::

but she hadn't decided to Because by the time the character is breaking into three right they've dug deep down and are gonna fight the monster

::

she just had sex with him I mean yeah that was her only decision I'm gonna have sex with them too by giving you

::

exactly what you want so yeah show you who's supposed to show you

::

um so my fun and games are still going father's call has come found now because

::

so more allusion to maybe he's the guy a strong case cameraman killed Dewey stabbed and Sydney flees

::

um and then I wrote I could not locate a midpoint false victory of defeat and I don't agree with his or whatever yeah I mean well yeah I mean like if you're in

::

the fun and games there's like 20 minutes left of this movie like I mean there's yeah right I think it's a mess

::

well I think but but like like we said in defense I think a good slasher movie is fun and games I mean that's what you

::

you know yeah well it's very interesting that the the Beats I guess are so you know wonky and so many either

::

skipped or missed beats but as a whole the floor you know you know it still works and you know it satisfied the

::

audience yeah well there's very much the genre expectations right even catboy and

::

all these gurus will say that you know certain genres carry expectations right so if

::

you're watching Die Hard you do not expect aliens to land you know because it's not that kind of movie uh in a

::

slasher movie you do not expect Nev to sit down and read poetry and be introspective about her life right or uh

::

and so this does this meet expectations and fulfill its genre I think 100 yes

::

yeah you know um I think yes I I so in defense of the

::

movie I think it does work that way for bad guys close in I have Billy and

::

Stu reveal to Sydney they are The Killers so the monster the the sin Sydney's mother was a [ __ ] slept with

::

Billy's Father which made his mother leave so for bad guys to close in they have to

::

become closer than they have been and I mean close in you're closed in right

::

so if I was pressed that's what I'm saying is that billions do now are laying it all out for poor Sydney right

::

so as though as you're always lost it you know that her mom was not as you know pure as she thought I at this point

::

I'm I'm grasping All Is Lost that would make sense still green baby reveals that they could so

::

now not only are these The Killers but the killers have her father oh yeah yeah her last remaining parent

::

okay yes sure and then the Dark Knight of the Soul uh billions do take shots

::

each other so they're stabbing each other with a knife I don't know how this is a Dark Knight of the Soul necessarily for Sydney at her in her mind it's got

::

to be like yeah keep doing that you guys and right he went too deep it's been a

::

little woozy here um so what does he have he has yeah I don't know the thoughts never's

::

about so he you know he's way behind us the finale Matthew and this is his

::

finale Matthew and skeet reveal themselves as the killer seeking revenge against both Nev and her mom while whose

::

hidden sense see he talks about hidden sin now which you never mentioned before of sleeping with skeet's Father ruins Keith's life the twin Killers

::

supercharged Powers come not just from Insanity but from being able to be in two places at once

::

A and B stories cross as Nev and Courtney work together to kill the killers

::

his final image Courtney wraps up the tale of Nev's mom and the recent murderer saying it's like something out of a scary movie

::

which brings this postmodern Thriller full circle so the final image

::

uh if the if the opening image was the the is is uh what's her name being

::

killed the final image is that was very specific Bill uh Casey

::

Drew Barry people remember a character name or her real name Drew Barrymore Casey the first the first opening images

::

where lots of what's her names are killed sure uh Courtney Cox wrapping it

::

up the tale of Nev's mom which so if the if the open if the closing

::

image is the the the reveal of Nev's mom being not so pure then the opening image

::

has to be at some point Nev thinking her mom is pure you know I mean so I don't I don't

::

it's a mess yeah I I think the movie fulfills its

::

expectations and doesn't have a lot of structure but it's still entertaining because it does fulfill those expectations I think

::

pulling his Beats is more of a mess than the actual movie is a great in its own

::

genre you agree uh you can't fault the movie for being what it's supposed to be yeah you know

::

um now I still like a well-structured story but

::

it didn't detract from my enjoyment of it because it so much fulfilled what I wanted to see yeah and I think I want to

::

laugh I want to scream I want to you want to give a [ __ ] and you want to care yeah so like you're not gonna so to me I think the the fact that the beats are so

::

blurry right as I think if you nail the Beats that's what makes and have a good character that's what makes you care more about the the character at the end

::

wearing this like we talked about it we didn't really care all that much yeah maybe that's why because it was not so

::

clearly defined yeah that's what I was trying to say yeah but again uh crazy completely as removed Blake Sounders

::

beats as a whole the movie works I mean it made a ton of money it spawned a whole series yeah it it did what it it

::

was supposed to yeah yeah um so yeah so

::

uh Dark Matter Soul breaking the three stone Billy dispatched loose ends tied up Gail gets her story

::

so yeah everything we just said yeah okay I did

::

Loosely structure this from Billy's perspective and so from Billy's perspective uh I have Billy is the mama's boy with a

::

stable family right it's Catalyst Sydney's mother has an affair with his dad and his mother finds out leaving her

::

husband and Billy scarring it debate you can almost see Billy at that point reacting and saying

::

okay I'm gonna should I do something about this so I'm not I'm having these thoughts he'd eventually I'm sure there

::

wasn't just a an automatic I'm gonna go kill somebody yeah he'd put so much venom behind that

::

you know she was spreading her [ __ ] all over town yeah that's where that came from at that point it is kind of funny

::

though like because what you were saying earlier he tells Sydney you know your mom was killed a year ago get over it well like that he's on this that's his

::

debate here yes you know your mom you know uh uh you know committed adultery get over

::

it or do something about it right he decided to do something about it yes uh not the right thing but you know he did

::

something did something uh breaking the two I guess killing City and bother is that what we said yeah fun and games to

::

murder midpoint is a false defeat for Billy he gets arrested I would think yeah maybe yeah

::

bad guy screws in Sydney breaks up with him before he can have sex with her All Is Lost uh which is now a false Victory

::

he does have sex with her so that's a false Victory because he doesn't get to kill her yeah Dark Knight The Soul like

::

I really I I couldn't unless it's well I really couldn't break into three revealing to Sydney uh stabbing

::

themselves to cover their tracks so at that point Billy is storming the castle right now he's going to get to kill Sydney yeah and so stabbing themselves

::

fighting uh Sydney and Gail uh final image dying dead murder so he goes from

::

uh live murder to dead murder which you know is I guess his Arc right the

::

descent into madness resulting yeah he was the the mama's boy mama's boy to

::

sadistic killer with a bullet yeah that's good yeah yeah that that's a great story yeah that's what I'm saying

::

Billy's story is solid I think um which

::

well I I immediately thought of Halloween but that story is he's a raging psychopath because that he kills

::

the we don't get any do we ever get a motivation for no ideally ideally he's just like Jaws

::

yes he's a soulless killing machine soulless killing machine yes uh now I was a little surprised we were not

::

talking about Halloween but I watched it well a couple week last week or whatever I was a little surprised at how

::

human he sort of acted like there's a scene where he's at the when he's initially stalking uh what's her name

::

during the day right Lori Lori talking about the original Halloween yes okay and like he's at the schoolyard and this

::

kid runs into him and bumps into him and he grabs the kid and the kid looks at him and he lets him go and I'm like you

::

know he seems almost emotive at that point instead of this just you know well don't

::

watch the new one okay well I you know I and that may have been you know the

::

writers and movies like because you know we talked about it before I think you don't killed you don't kill dogs you know and that was 76 79 I think so he

::

killed the dog in that one yeah all right so maybe they were like

::

look we killed the dog we can't kill him yeah well you see his little legs

::

all right well then what about it I don't know yeah maybe he was you know he

::

spare the kid go you know grow up to become a straw killer like me kid I don't know I hadn't seen it in a while

::

yeah anyway yeah I think I think that story that you just broke down of Billy is

::

very good yeah no that makes so much more sense yeah and and scream the

::

prequel yeah he's too late now but you know squeak rule squeakable screquil yeah I like it there you go

::

all right um past consider recommend not being uh for me I I recommend it I think

::

I think when it came out it was genius and I think it's still a lot of fun um

::

it is what it is you're not going to get literature you're not going to get an epic but you're going to have a good time I think which is what you go to

::

these kind of movies for right yep yeah exactly it brought back the horror slasher genre

::

especially my generation and forward uh story wise I didn't realize until we

::

watched it with a little bit more critical eye if this would have passed my desk I probably would have said what yeah but as an overall movie totally

::

recommend now the uh I almost uh uh there's a I think they make reference

::

to a director in the west Carpenter West Carpenter yeah so but I I wanted to make

::

sure I remember that yes I thought that was very cool yeah this isn't some Wes Carpenter movie yeah nice that's cool

::

anyway yeah so definitely recommend for me for what it is you know yeah recommend from me yeah same here

::

recommend throwing all the the same points you guys said no I mean I guess it wouldn't be a recommended if I'm looking at it from like movies that Neil

::

Blake Snyder's you know beats yeah but even Blake Snyder I don't think nailed it uh green I don't think agreed yes I

::

think he chose this movie because of the popularity and people would would know it when he put it in there yeah and it's

::

hard to argue with what it did for you know revitalizing the horror genres yeah okay yeah I I recommend I remember I I

::

don't I don't see these movies in a movie theater yeah I don't like to see scary

::

movies in a movie theater as you know it's too much too big a screen

::

um so I saw it you know at by rental and I just remember

::

the advertising and I remember watching it thinking this is really good yeah because I don't I don't like slasher

::

movies but you know like I said um it was so funny to me and it was a really good who done it it kept you

::

guessing the whole time and I remember after I watched it I said okay now I gotta go back and watch it all over

::

again so I can see it knowing how it ends right you know so yeah yeah

::

it's funner to have watched it once find out who the killers are and then go back

::

and watch it again and really enjoy yourself picking out all the little bits and the red herrings yeah I'd be

::

interested to try to do what you didn't see because I always thought well which one does this Duke and which one did Billy get yeah that that that's how many

::

times I've seen it is I can now pick that out right at least I think I don't know and then

::

of course it came got me coming back for the second one because it has because then you know they yes the actors were

::

unknown when they did this but then you're like okay I really like this person and this person and yeah all

::

the characters were fun to watch too I mean each you know and it and it still had that shock value of any like in

::

Scream 2 uh when Jamie Kennedy bites it yeah he still has that anybody can go at

::

any time but then you also get the backstory of leave Schreiber playing cotton weary yeah you only see him like

::

for a couple of seconds in the news in a news not even a speaking part yeah I thought he spoke in the first one didn't

::

realize no it's the second one but then Jamie Kinney does show up in the third one as a v you know on video yeah yeah

::

so that was good to see him show up again yeah so anyway all right

::

well cool yeah it was a good one that's great good pick happy Halloween yeah and

::

then the second one they make reference to the movie stab it's it becomes stab you know because they're gonna make a

::

meta stab versus in a universe and then it went on to do

::

what were the scary movies the scary movie franchise oh yeah yeah the economy

::

so this one just oh yeah blew up everywhere everywhere it became a thing all right okay with Ghost Face ghost

::

face yeah yeah all right that is Scream um like James said happy Halloween well

::

Drew Barrymore is a [ __ ] dead now who else do we got this is my friend no they they pull what I call a psycho oh for

::

sure it's a scream baby so by the time we see Billy he's already into his fun and games he's whacking people man you

::

know I just thought that the funds you know became a principal later in life he

::

could do what he wanted you know sure the ultimate sin was just sex don't you have sex you guys alarm Bell maybe one

::

or two sure her job is to wear that tight half shirt you know that she does yes

::

this is not that kind of podcast where I'd say a lot more you know right say this is not a podcast where we

::

should review that damn yeah this isn't some Wes Carpenter movie yeah nice that's cool anyway