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#24: Simplify Podcast Production with Hacks from Eagan Heath
Episode 244th June 2024 • Podjunction • Sadaf Beynon and Matt Edmundson
00:00:00 00:31:45

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In this episode, we dive deep into the world of podcast production with insights from Eagan Heath, a successful podcaster who shares his journey and the challenges he has faced.

Join hosts Sadaf and Matt Edmundson as they chat with Eagan Heath about the real struggles of maintaining a consistent podcast release schedule. Eagan reveals that the hardest part isn't finding guests, but managing the production process. He shares how hiring Miriam, a skilled assistant, transformed his workflow, allowing him to increase his episode release frequency significantly.

Eagan also highlights the power of using tools like Riverside and Descript. Riverside's local recording feature ensures high-quality video even with poor internet connections, while Descript's user-friendly interface makes editing quick and easy. These tools have reduced production time dramatically, making podcasting more accessible and less overwhelming.

Episode Highlights:

  1. Biggest Challenge: Production, Not Guests: Eagan discusses how production was his biggest hurdle, not finding guests.
  2. Hiring the Right Help: Learn how hiring a skilled assistant transformed Eagan's workflow.
  3. Leveraging Technology: Discover how tools like Riverside and Descript can improve your production quality and efficiency.
  4. Practical Tips for Podcasters: Eagan shares actionable advice on managing podcast production effectively.

Engage with Us:

  • Website: Visit Podjunction.com for more episodes.
  • Instagram: Follow us @PodjunctionPodcast and join the conversation.
  • Feedback: Got a story to share or a question for the hosts? Drop us a message on our website or Instagram. Or tell us how have you tackled podcast production challenges? What tools and strategies have worked best for you? Join the conversation and let us know!

Don't forget to subscribe for more behind-the-scenes insights and practical tips to take your podcast to the next level. Whether you're just starting or looking to revamp your existing podcast, join us on this unscripted journey of podcast growth and community building!

Transcripts

Sadaf Beynon:

Welcome to Podjunction, where business meets podcasting, whether

Sadaf Beynon:

you're on a morning jog, driving to work, whipping up a meal, or just

Sadaf Beynon:

simply taking a minute for yourself.

Sadaf Beynon:

Our weekly bite sized episodes promise fresh insights from successful podcasters

Sadaf Beynon:

who have cracked the code of using podcasts to grow their business.

Sadaf Beynon:

So whether you're a podcasting newbie or a seasoned podcaster,

Sadaf Beynon:

this episode is for you.

Sadaf Beynon:

Hello, and welcome to Podjunction Podcast.

Sadaf Beynon:

This is Sadaf, your host, and with me is a man who needs no

Sadaf Beynon:

introduction, Matt Edmundson himself.

Sadaf Beynon:

I don't know about

Matt Edmundson:

that.

Matt Edmundson:

My parole officer tells me I need an introduction everywhere I go.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

So we are a show all about I don't really

Matt Edmundson:

have a parole officer, by the way.

Sadaf Beynon:

I'm just going to let that one slide, let

Sadaf Beynon:

them believe what they want.

Sadaf Beynon:

Okay.

Sadaf Beynon:

All right.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah, we're a show all about helping podcasters use their

Sadaf Beynon:

podcast for growing their business.

Matt Edmundson:

Exactly.

Matt Edmundson:

That's very good.

Matt Edmundson:

That's very well said.

Matt Edmundson:

Thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

Welcome.

Sadaf Beynon:

Thank you.

Sadaf Beynon:

And today.

Sadaf Beynon:

We have a segment from Eagan Heath again, because Matt doesn't know this

Sadaf Beynon:

information, so I have to put it in.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah,

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know, I just turn up and smile.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't even turn up and look pretty these days.

Matt Edmundson:

I just turn up and smile.

Sadaf Beynon:

He's got too much competition now.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

Alright yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Guess what?

Sadaf Beynon:

I feel like you've got something to say, Matt.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah,

Matt Edmundson:

no, not at all.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm just, I'm enjoying the fact that you're now introducing the show.

Matt Edmundson:

It's good.

Matt Edmundson:

I will say, actually, a warm welcome to you if this is your first time with

Matt Edmundson:

Podjunction, it's a great new grown audience all the time, so yeah, and of

Matt Edmundson:

course if you're a regular, welcome back, always great to hear from you as well,

Matt Edmundson:

let us know what you think about the show.

Matt Edmundson:

Especially now Sadaf has started introducing it.

Matt Edmundson:

How's she doing?

Matt Edmundson:

Critique her a little bit.

Matt Edmundson:

I think that would be fun.

Sadaf Beynon:

Just be kind.

Sadaf Beynon:

Critique me with kindness.

Matt Edmundson:

Critique with kindness.

Matt Edmundson:

I think that would be kind to you.

Matt Edmundson:

It's more who's that fellow you've got sat next to you?

Matt Edmundson:

Just get rid of him.

Matt Edmundson:

The show would be much better without him.

Sadaf Beynon:

No, I need him.

Sadaf Beynon:

All eagan Heath.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes,

Sadaf Beynon:

again, and he is going to be talking about the main

Sadaf Beynon:

challenges that he's faced with podcast production in particular.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, okay.

Matt Edmundson:

We're getting into the whole production side today.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yes, we are.

Matt Edmundson:

Dun.

Matt Edmundson:

I've really no need to be here because I haven't got a clue.

Sadaf Beynon:

Maybe you'll learn something.

Sadaf Beynon:

Maybe I will.

Matt Edmundson:

Maybe I will.

Matt Edmundson:

Maybe I will.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, so we're just gonna roll VT.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah, let's do it.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay, here it is.

Sadaf Beynon:

What have you found to be the biggest hurdles or

Sadaf Beynon:

challenges that you have come across?

Eagan Heath:

Yeah, I think a lot of people anticipate it's the finding guests

Eagan Heath:

and that's not the hard part at all.

Eagan Heath:

I would say for me, it's really been the production piece of, I'm great, I

Eagan Heath:

can show up and riff with people and create an episode and ask them questions

Eagan Heath:

and learn more and make connections.

Eagan Heath:

That's the part that at least, you with my skills or just how I am, like,

Eagan Heath:

that's the part I'm good at, and when it was just me or when I was trying

Eagan Heath:

to get new assistants on it was really the editing and the production piece

Eagan Heath:

of, we got to the point where I'm sure we were more than 50 episodes behind,

Eagan Heath:

and it was almost absurd where I guess we're reaching out, hey, when's my

Eagan Heath:

episode coming out, and we had to say, hey, stop asking we're, I'm running an

Eagan Heath:

agency and I'm doing the best I can here.

Eagan Heath:

Yeah, and I, interestingly, I mentioned this in my email, so I would send

Eagan Heath:

out to my list when we have a new episode come out, and I would say,

Eagan Heath:

hey, sorry, it's been a while, like I'm busy running an agency, and we've got

Eagan Heath:

to be a mini media company here too.

Eagan Heath:

Yeah.

Eagan Heath:

And someone who'd been on the podcast said, hey, here's my assistant,

Eagan Heath:

you should talk with her, she's great, she helps me on my podcast.

Eagan Heath:

And that was really the game changer for us.

Eagan Heath:

So I went through, I think we had two other VA companies before that and

Eagan Heath:

just did not work out of, it really is this series of steps of, can we

Eagan Heath:

edit the, can we edit the episode?

Eagan Heath:

Can we create show notes and timestamps and things to promote it.

Eagan Heath:

And so between my now third assistant, Miriam, who had, podcast

Eagan Heath:

production promotion, And AI tools we've really sped that process up,

Eagan Heath:

but boy, it sure took a long time.

Eagan Heath:

And so we got to the point with her where we were cranking on an

Eagan Heath:

episode or two a week could come out versus I'm just struggling to

Eagan Heath:

find time to get one out a month.

Eagan Heath:

So for me, that was really the hard part of, I can show up on the mic,

Eagan Heath:

I can talk, we can do the episode, but I really needed other who's

Eagan Heath:

to do the how do we chop this up?

Eagan Heath:

How do we edit it?

Eagan Heath:

And how do we promote it?

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

So Miriam, if I remember from our conversation before, works remotely

Sadaf Beynon:

from where you're at, right?

Eagan Heath:

Yeah.

Eagan Heath:

She's in Nairobi, Kenya, actually.

Eagan Heath:

Yep.

Eagan Heath:

And she had, she was helping someone else in the UK with a podcast

Eagan Heath:

and she was working on setting up her own agency doing this piece.

Eagan Heath:

So I think you've got to really find somebody like that who loves this piece.

Eagan Heath:

Her thing was even the focus, her focus was, she really wanted to focus

Eagan Heath:

on kind of the promotion of it, of, okay, we're putting it on social media,

Eagan Heath:

we're writing the email marketing for it, or talking about it and getting

Eagan Heath:

it out there and letting the guests know that their episode is live.

Eagan Heath:

That's all great.

Eagan Heath:

But I said I need someone to edit it.

Eagan Heath:

And I don't wanna coordinate with anybody else yeah, I want a one stop shop.

Eagan Heath:

Let's get you the tools you need.

Eagan Heath:

She didn't have video, so I should say we're on YouTube

Eagan Heath:

and we do the audio podcast.

Eagan Heath:

Okay.

Eagan Heath:

And the YouTube views are where most of them are.

Eagan Heath:

All the other podcasts, audio platforms combined, YouTube is probably 10x of

Eagan Heath:

those basically, so it's a much bigger hurdle to do video episodes because of

Eagan Heath:

all the editing and so on required, but it's really been, I think it's been worth

Eagan Heath:

it for us in my experience for additional views, additional, basically people

Eagan Heath:

seeing us and getting exposed to it.

Eagan Heath:

So what we ended up doing was using a combination of Riverside and Descript.

Eagan Heath:

io, so basically the AI portions or the AI tools where.

Eagan Heath:

Okay.

Eagan Heath:

We're not going to be using premiere or what have you.

Eagan Heath:

We don't need to use these high end video editing tools.

Eagan Heath:

It's probably overkill for what we're doing, but we need some way to just

Eagan Heath:

chop out little parts and do things.

Eagan Heath:

And so doing it, doing a basic version of that and getting her up

Eagan Heath:

to speed on that piece that was huge.

Eagan Heath:

So I'm of two minds about these things where it's just hire people who

Eagan Heath:

already know how to do what you do.

Eagan Heath:

Yeah.

Eagan Heath:

I mentioned who, not how that's a Dan Sullivan book and I'm a big fan

Eagan Heath:

of Dan Sullivan and strategic coach.

Eagan Heath:

And so I believe in who, not how, but sometimes when you're small, you've got to

Eagan Heath:

say, Hey, can you help me with this too?

Eagan Heath:

Until we get somebody to do that part.

Eagan Heath:

And in that, in this case, it worked of, we didn't need anything

Eagan Heath:

so sophisticated with the editing that we needed a dedicated video

Eagan Heath:

editor and then a promoter.

Eagan Heath:

I was like, let's just combine it all into one.

Eagan Heath:

I could see how, if you're bigger, you have more budget, whatever you

Eagan Heath:

could make those separate jobs.

Eagan Heath:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

So were you always audio video?

Sadaf Beynon:

Did you start like that?

Eagan Heath:

We did do that from the top, and I should say, we started on Zoom.

Eagan Heath:

You can watch the very first episode with my client, Tim, from The Healthy Place.

Eagan Heath:

He's like a vitamin and supplement company.

Eagan Heath:

And

Eagan Heath:

it's nice and rough.

Eagan Heath:

One thing on, on YouTube or on Zoom is, I don't know if it's still

Eagan Heath:

this case, in the case, but yeah, 720 pixels at 720p was the max.

Eagan Heath:

Just when we finally made that switch and I invested in Riverside or said,

Eagan Heath:

okay, let's get a dedicated tool for this quality jumped up a lot of Zoom is

Eagan Heath:

set up for video conferencing, real time stuff where it's not recorded for all

Eagan Heath:

posterity, it's not for content creation and doing Riverside was a big step up

Eagan Heath:

and whatever your tool is, but the other thing that Riverside does is if there's a

Eagan Heath:

little cut in the connection or someone's wifi or internet isn't good, you just

Eagan Heath:

lose them and that part gets cut out in zoom Riverside has this thing where

Eagan Heath:

it's recording locally Asynchronously and then it uploads it to the cloud

Eagan Heath:

Yeah And

Eagan Heath:

so even if you're like not quite hearing people during it

Eagan Heath:

because sometimes I'm talking to people in other countries Yeah, what have you

Eagan Heath:

the Riverside quality was much higher.

Eagan Heath:

So yeah, we did video from the beginning and pretty soon it was clear that

Eagan Heath:

Zoom alone was not going to cut it.

Sadaf Beynon:

If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode,

Sadaf Beynon:

be sure to subscribe to the show.

Sadaf Beynon:

We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.

Matt Edmundson:

Welcome back.

Matt Edmundson:

So that was, what part was that with Eagan?

Matt Edmundson:

We are number three, number two.

Matt Edmundson:

I can't remember.

Matt Edmundson:

Two.

Matt Edmundson:

Two.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay.

Matt Edmundson:

So Eagan there was talking about production which has

Matt Edmundson:

been the bane of my life.

Matt Edmundson:

So I,

Sadaf Beynon:

my life.

Matt Edmundson:

Of your life.

Matt Edmundson:

To be

Sadaf Beynon:

fair,

Matt Edmundson:

yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It was the bane of my life and then I got rid of it.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Which was a beauty.

Matt Edmundson:

You're welcome.

Matt Edmundson:

So

Matt Edmundson:

So I totally empathize with what Eagan's saying I'm with him, I love to sit down,

Matt Edmundson:

chat with people, talk with people, but all that other stuff, we used to say,

Matt Edmundson:

didn't we, on one of the sponsorship slots, actually, all that other stuff

Matt Edmundson:

PodJunction takes care of all the whole production thing, side of things, because

Matt Edmundson:

we were like, Yeah, if I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't be the only person enjoying it.

Matt Edmundson:

And some people really get a kick out of it.

Matt Edmundson:

Some people really enjoy the whole production process and they, it's almost

Matt Edmundson:

like they, they like both sides of it.

Matt Edmundson:

They like to record and they like to produce.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, that's not me though.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm with Eagan on this.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm with Eaganan.

Matt Edmundson:

Where do you sit?

Matt Edmundson:

Cause you now do both.

Sadaf Beynon:

The speaking and the finding guests is definitely more interesting.

Matt Edmundson:

Then production, then

Sadaf Beynon:

the production bit because I think production becomes

Sadaf Beynon:

run of the mill, you get the same thing, different day, same thing,

Matt Edmundson:

Different day.

Matt Edmundson:

I just changed it a little bit.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, no, it very much can be because when you find your groove

Matt Edmundson:

and what the show's it just becomes about knocking them out, right?

Matt Edmundson:

It's just I'm just going to batch process this.

Matt Edmundson:

And interestingly, he mentioned tools like Riverside and Descript, and between

Matt Edmundson:

them, they've made the whole process a lot easier than what it used to be.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Cause I remember the days when we would record the audio version of

Matt Edmundson:

the podcast and you did that through a sound desk to an MP3 recorder.

Matt Edmundson:

And in fact, I've got an MP3, the original MP3 recorder.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm just turning around.

Matt Edmundson:

It's on the shelves behind me as part of our little studio decoration.

Matt Edmundson:

So we'd record from the desk to the MP3 recorder.

Matt Edmundson:

We would then take.

Matt Edmundson:

The MP three recording off the card by putting it into the computer, you

Matt Edmundson:

would import it into the computer and then you would have to open a program

Matt Edmundson:

like Adobe Audition, which talk about taking a hammer to a nut type thing.

Matt Edmundson:

It's just we need a sledge hammer to crack this hazel it type thing.

Matt Edmundson:

It was way more than what anybody needed and it was so complicated to use.

Matt Edmundson:

And you imported the tracks and you would spend hours just farting about with sound

Matt Edmundson:

waves and EQ and you would do things like cut out that, we'll cut those audio tracks

Matt Edmundson:

to make the silence to make it go quicker.

Matt Edmundson:

And then we start to cut out all the errs and the ums.

Matt Edmundson:

And it would take hours and hours to edit a podcast.

Matt Edmundson:

And one of the beautiful things about modern technology is you can

Matt Edmundson:

just press a button and there it is.

Matt Edmundson:

And you're like, wow.

Matt Edmundson:

So what before would take five or six hours now can be done in

Matt Edmundson:

literally three or four minutes.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

We don't record to an MP3 recorder anymore.

Matt Edmundson:

We record straight into the computer.

Matt Edmundson:

Although some people would say that actually is nuts because

Matt Edmundson:

what happens if the computer dies, you've lost the recording.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm like the one time in every thousand that happens.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

I'll deal with it as opposed to having to re record.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, and just re record as opposed to having to figure out

Matt Edmundson:

the whole MP3 recorder thing.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, I think production is very different now.

Matt Edmundson:

Very different.

Matt Edmundson:

But I still get why Ethan would not want to do it.

Matt Edmundson:

Because, Eagan, sorry, did I say Ethan?

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, you did.

Matt Edmundson:

You know what I was thinking of in my head?

Matt Edmundson:

Mission Impossible.

Matt Edmundson:

Don't know why.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know why.

Matt Edmundson:

But there you go.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, I just think it's one of those things.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm totally with him.

Matt Edmundson:

Totally with him.

Matt Edmundson:

So Descript, Riverside.

Matt Edmundson:

Now we use Descript.

Matt Edmundson:

We don't use Riverside.

Matt Edmundson:

No, we do use Riverside.

Matt Edmundson:

We do

Sadaf Beynon:

use Riverside, but we don't have Riverside and Descript talking.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay.

Matt Edmundson:

Why not?

Matt Edmundson:

Because we don't always

Sadaf Beynon:

use Riverside.

Sadaf Beynon:

Riverside is just, we usually use eCamm, don't we?

Matt Edmundson:

That's true.

Matt Edmundson:

So at the moment we're recording onto eCamm which is a piece

Matt Edmundson:

of software for the Mac.

Matt Edmundson:

That started out as a live streaming piece of software.

Matt Edmundson:

We used it in the early days when we were live streaming, eCam was

Matt Edmundson:

one of the few pieces of software that you could do that with.

Matt Edmundson:

And now it is so good.

Matt Edmundson:

We just record everything with it.

Matt Edmundson:

Even if we're not live streaming, like at the moment, we're not live streaming.

Matt Edmundson:

And it's great.

Matt Edmundson:

It just records everything you needed to record, doesn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

And so then our process is you then take the audio file you take

Matt Edmundson:

the audio and video files because eCam records are separately.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And then you import those into Descript.

Matt Edmundson:

But if you record on Riverside, you download the files and then import them.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

I think you do.

Sadaf Beynon:

We haven't set it up and it's easy enough to do, but we just haven't done it.

Sadaf Beynon:

Cause you can just actually have them connect straight to each other.

Sadaf Beynon:

So we'll just automatically upload to Descript.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So then you don't even need to download them.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

You can just have Riverside send the file straight to Descript.

Matt Edmundson:

And in fact, Riverside, am I right in saying Riverside have

Matt Edmundson:

their sort of own version of.

Matt Edmundson:

Descript.

Matt Edmundson:

No, Descript now has their own version of Riverside.

Matt Edmundson:

So they bought Squadcast.

Sadaf Beynon:

That's it.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

Is that right?

Sadaf Beynon:

That is right.

Matt Edmundson:

For those of you have no idea what I'm talking

Matt Edmundson:

about now, Matt, we're just getting lost in all these names.

Matt Edmundson:

So Squadcast was a podcasting platform, an online podcasting platform

Matt Edmundson:

that people use for many years.

Matt Edmundson:

And Descript, which is like a really intriguing video and

Matt Edmundson:

audio editing piece of software.

Matt Edmundson:

So Riverside helps you to record your podcast as there was, as you guys

Matt Edmundson:

were talking about in the clip, right?

Matt Edmundson:

It records the episode locally on your machine.

Matt Edmundson:

So if you're, you have to do it in Chrome.

Matt Edmundson:

And so what happens is Riverside connects you both together

Matt Edmundson:

through a zoom type platform.

Matt Edmundson:

It records the video and audio to each computer first.

Matt Edmundson:

So if you're the host, it records it to your computer.

Matt Edmundson:

If you're the guest, the video gets saved onto your computer.

Matt Edmundson:

So you get the highest possible quality.

Matt Edmundson:

Plus if the internet drops out, the problem we have with e comm is if we

Matt Edmundson:

have a dialing guest and the internet's a bit funny, sometimes we'll have

Matt Edmundson:

episodes where the guest is a bit blurry because the internet speed isn't great.

Matt Edmundson:

Whereas Riverside figured out a way around this by recording both

Matt Edmundson:

Items locally and uploading them to the cloud as you go along.

Matt Edmundson:

And then it synchronizes all of that, which I think is really

Matt Edmundson:

clever technology when it works.

Matt Edmundson:

When we've, to be fair, when we use Riverside a couple of years

Matt Edmundson:

ago, we found it was very glitchy.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

I think there's been a lot of improvements.

Sadaf Beynon:

A

Matt Edmundson:

lot of work has been done on Riverside since, so

Matt Edmundson:

it is definitely a lot better.

Matt Edmundson:

So Riverside will help you record your podcast in a way that is

Matt Edmundson:

really simple and really easy.

Matt Edmundson:

Especially if you want to do video.

Matt Edmundson:

Descript then helps you do the production.

Matt Edmundson:

It helps you edit.

Matt Edmundson:

That's the best way to say it, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Now there are other pieces of software out there you can use, but Descript is fast

Matt Edmundson:

becoming the mainstay, isn't it really?

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

And also Riverside creates clips for you as well.

Sadaf Beynon:

Oh, does it?

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

And actually thinking about it now, I wonder if we connected it to Descript

Sadaf Beynon:

that might make creating those clips on Descript a lot easier too.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay.

Sadaf Beynon:

Very good.

Sadaf Beynon:

I think We

Matt Edmundson:

should definitely have a play.

Matt Edmundson:

You guys should definitely have a play.

Matt Edmundson:

You stay out of it, Matt.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I'm definitely staying out of it.

Matt Edmundson:

But Riverside, we really like.

Matt Edmundson:

We really do.

Matt Edmundson:

We should probably get an affiliate link to Riverside and put it in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

But Riverside we really and Descript we really like.

Matt Edmundson:

We do use both.

Matt Edmundson:

We're not exclusively Riverside, nor are we exclusively Descript because we still,

Matt Edmundson:

again, it was mentioned in the clip that he doesn't use premiere Pro or Final Cut

Matt Edmundson:

Pro X or so, do you know what I mean?

Matt Edmundson:

Those pieces of software, which are just, again, a bit like using

Matt Edmundson:

Adobe Audition to edit a podcast.

Matt Edmundson:

There's a lot of stuff in those programs that you don't need just

Matt Edmundson:

for a podcast, but a lot, if you're going to invest time and money into

Matt Edmundson:

it, then maybe you want to do multi cam edits and all that sort of stuff.

Matt Edmundson:

You can think about that.

Sadaf Beynon:

That's what Eagan was saying, wasn't he, that to

Sadaf Beynon:

stay flexible, so stay flexible with with your tools, with your

Sadaf Beynon:

resource and then upgrade as you go.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Figure out what works best for you.

Matt Edmundson:

Capcut is another video editing piece of software that everyone has started

Matt Edmundson:

to use a lot, especially in podcasting.

Matt Edmundson:

DaVinci Resolve is another one.

Matt Edmundson:

Again, find out what works for you.

Matt Edmundson:

Descript is really, the reason we started with Descript was because

Matt Edmundson:

we had Estella working for us now.

Matt Edmundson:

Estella was based in India, and she was lovely, but we didn't want to go

Matt Edmundson:

through the pain barrier of trying to get Estella up and running on something

Matt Edmundson:

like Final Cut Pro, which was what we were using internally at the time.

Matt Edmundson:

And so we came across Descript, we tried it and the whole way it does

Matt Edmundson:

video editing is a little bit different because it does

Matt Edmundson:

it on the basis of the text.

Matt Edmundson:

On the screen, it's a text-based video editor, which makes it

Matt Edmundson:

remarkably simple to learn.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

Very simple.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Really easy, really quick, quite intuitive type stuff.

Matt Edmundson:

And yeah, if you're not using it, definitely check it out.

Matt Edmundson:

If you're wanting to do your own production it's

Matt Edmundson:

probably the one thing that.

Matt Edmundson:

I would say 9 out of 10 people that ask us for help with production that want to

Matt Edmundson:

do it themselves would probably point them in that direction, I would have thought.

Matt Edmundson:

And so yeah, Descript is really fascinating.

Matt Edmundson:

And then what was the other one that I mentioned?

Matt Edmundson:

Squadcast.

Matt Edmundson:

So Squadcast was a bit like Riverside, but more audio only like a podcast

Matt Edmundson:

based platform that's now changed.

Matt Edmundson:

Descript has bought that and so Descript and Squadcast also work well together.

Matt Edmundson:

They're both trying to, I think over the next few months, next year or

Matt Edmundson:

so, it'll become really interesting what happens with those two things.

Matt Edmundson:

And whether Descript will push that much more and even actually where the

Matt Edmundson:

Riverside will then start to compete a bit more with the script, whether

Matt Edmundson:

they'll start to create their own editor.

Matt Edmundson:

And you might find that these two platforms actually, you only

Matt Edmundson:

need one of them at some point.

Matt Edmundson:

But at the moment we use both.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And both are cool . Both are very cool.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Any, what are your top production tips?

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, wow.

Matt Edmundson:

Don't do it.

Matt Edmundson:

. Sadaf Beynon: I think maybe what Eagan was saying in the clip, like having the right.

Matt Edmundson:

The right team, like people who are efficient and capable

Matt Edmundson:

in doing what you're doing.

Matt Edmundson:

And I think that really helps the production process.

Matt Edmundson:

If you're a one man band it's a little bit more time consuming and you gotta to

Matt Edmundson:

learn the ins and outs of all of that.

Matt Edmundson:

But if you've got people to help you along the way, I think

Matt Edmundson:

that makes life a lot easier.

Matt Edmundson:

So my top tip is get a team.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And whether that's, and that I guess team of people or even having the

Matt Edmundson:

right tools, the right software to help you, I think that would be

Matt Edmundson:

good.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

It was interesting.

Matt Edmundson:

Cause again, he's his producers based in, did he say Nairobi?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And obviously he's not in Nairobi.

Matt Edmundson:

I'd say, obviously, I assume he's not in Nairobi.

Matt Edmundson:

I think he's in the States.

Matt Edmundson:

He's in

Sadaf Beynon:

Wisconsin.

Matt Edmundson:

That's right.

Matt Edmundson:

Madison, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Madison, Wisconsin, Heaton.

Matt Edmundson:

And that's the beauty of the internet now is actually you can get help.

Matt Edmundson:

So you could look at places like Fiverr to try and if you're going to try

Matt Edmundson:

and outsource help, we used to, with PodJunction, we were just like, we started

Matt Edmundson:

when we first started out, we were like we could just do production for the people.

Matt Edmundson:

And we can do that, if you want a production company do,

Matt Edmundson:

more than happy to talk to you.

Matt Edmundson:

We're definitely not going to be the cheapest because, we're not in Nairobi and

Matt Edmundson:

we're a team of people, we're an agency.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

But we focus more on getting you up and running so you can do it yourself and

Matt Edmundson:

help build your own team as opposed to necessarily try and do production for you.

Matt Edmundson:

Although that said, we obviously do production for a number of people.

Matt Edmundson:

But I think production is one of those things that I

Matt Edmundson:

think it scares a lot of folk.

Matt Edmundson:

I think it's probably the one reason why people don't do podcasting.

Matt Edmundson:

I think there's a lot more

Sadaf Beynon:

moving parts.

Sadaf Beynon:

It's with production, whereas the hosting is pretty straightforward.

Sadaf Beynon:

It is what yeah, whereas with production, there can be quite a

Sadaf Beynon:

few things that need to happen.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

That are dependent on each other, that kind of stuff.

Sadaf Beynon:

So it gets complicated.

Matt Edmundson:

It does.

Matt Edmundson:

And I like, yeah, I wonder how much that turns people off.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

You know that sort of fear of it, but when you started in podcast

Matt Edmundson:

production, it's not like you came from an audio engineering background.

Matt Edmundson:

No, I was just

Sadaf Beynon:

going to say that.

Sadaf Beynon:

You don't really, like you can learn everything you need to know on the job.

Sadaf Beynon:

You don't have to have any kind of qualifications.

Sadaf Beynon:

I sure didn't.

Sadaf Beynon:

Matt still can't believe I work for a tech company.

Matt Edmundson:

No, no word of a lie.

Matt Edmundson:

We were doing the sound test at the beginning.

Matt Edmundson:

So you can't see it on the camera, but the left of us, we have the DLZ.

Matt Edmundson:

I think it's called the DLZ because it's probably an American company,

Matt Edmundson:

Mackie DLZ Creator Sound Desk.

Matt Edmundson:

And in the other studio, we use the Rode Procaster.

Matt Edmundson:

But all of that said, there's a button on there which does

Matt Edmundson:

this automatic level setting.

Matt Edmundson:

And because different people use the studio, we just come in, set the

Matt Edmundson:

levels automatically and away you go.

Matt Edmundson:

Sadaf was like, Oh, are we going to do the level thing?

Matt Edmundson:

So I'm like, yes.

Matt Edmundson:

And she's just chatting away and the desk, I'm just looking at the desk.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm not looking at Sadaf.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm looking at the desk.

Matt Edmundson:

And it's saying nothing's detected.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm like, I'm pressing it again and she's still chatting away.

Matt Edmundson:

And then eventually you say to me, what do you go and tell everyone what you said to

Sadaf Beynon:

me?

Sadaf Beynon:

I'm going to need this mic, aren't I?

Matt Edmundson:

So she was just chatting away.

Matt Edmundson:

The microphone was not even in front of her.

Matt Edmundson:

Which is, and I wasn't looking at it to figure this out, I was like, why is the

Matt Edmundson:

desk not working, just assuming obviously, illogically, that the microphone

Matt Edmundson:

would be in fact in front of you.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah we, yeah, so

Sadaf Beynon:

the point is anyone can do production.

Matt Edmundson:

It turns out anyone can do podcast hosting as well.

Matt Edmundson:

You don't even need a microphone.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, we're a tech company.

Matt Edmundson:

I reckon, I just wonder how many people tune in for the weekly story.

Sadaf Beynon:

I'd love to know though.

Matt Edmundson:

What's going on this week is going to cause us to laugh.

Matt Edmundson:

But yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

But you're right, I think you can learn on the job.

Matt Edmundson:

Bringing it back to production, I think actually, you probably should.

Matt Edmundson:

So if you're thinking, should I start a podcast, or you're fairly new in

Matt Edmundson:

the podcast, I actually think there's a lot to be said for unless, you're

Matt Edmundson:

a hyper busy exec, and it makes financial sense to outsource it.

Matt Edmundson:

But even then, I still think it's good to understand the production

Matt Edmundson:

process and what goes on.

Matt Edmundson:

So I don't do production, but I understand it.

Matt Edmundson:

Mind you, I used to do the, I started out doing production.

Matt Edmundson:

I started out doing the Adobe Audition stuff.

Matt Edmundson:

I think it was me that probably figured out in the early days how to use Descript,

Matt Edmundson:

just playing around with things, not because I need to control everything,

Matt Edmundson:

but just, it's good to understand what other people have to go through.

Matt Edmundson:

So when I'm recording a podcast, there are things that I now know that

Matt Edmundson:

will make it easier for production.

Matt Edmundson:

So when I'm recording, it's going to make stuff a lot easier.

Matt Edmundson:

Just simple things like if anything, we like to record podcasts like this, where

Matt Edmundson:

it's just, we record this in one take.

Matt Edmundson:

So we play the intro video.

Matt Edmundson:

We sit down, we do the intro, we play the interview clip, we sit and

Matt Edmundson:

listen to the clip, then we chat.

Matt Edmundson:

We're in one place and this whole thing is recorded in one take.

Matt Edmundson:

But if something goes wrong, just having a notebook in front of you,

Matt Edmundson:

jotting down the time on the screen, so it's now telling me we've been

Matt Edmundson:

recording for 24 minutes and 52 seconds.

Matt Edmundson:

So if something went wrong now, I can just jot down 24, 52 and just write

Matt Edmundson:

a brief note so that the production guys can easily spot that rather

Matt Edmundson:

than them having to listen through.

Matt Edmundson:

Intently to every detail to try and figure out if there was a mistake.

Matt Edmundson:

So just simple things like that make a big difference.

Matt Edmundson:

Just jotting notes and of timing issues.

Matt Edmundson:

And what other things really help?

Matt Edmundson:

You can answer this question anytime today.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, do I need to jot down 25 minutes, 20 seconds?

Matt Edmundson:

Awkward pause by Sadaf needs to be trimmed out.

Sadaf Beynon:

I was trying to remember the rest of the question.

Sadaf Beynon:

What were we talking about?

Matt Edmundson:

Did you just zone out?

Matt Edmundson:

A

Sadaf Beynon:

little bit.

Matt Edmundson:

Wow.

Sadaf Beynon:

So what was it?

Sadaf Beynon:

What else?

Matt Edmundson:

Tips, what tips?

Matt Edmundson:

So when you're a host in a podcast, how can the host make it

Matt Edmundson:

easier for the production team?

Matt Edmundson:

Okay,

Sadaf Beynon:

I'm with you now.

Sadaf Beynon:

Sorry,

Matt Edmundson:

ladies and gentlemen.

Sadaf Beynon:

The timestamp stuff is good.

Sadaf Beynon:

I like that because when you've done that for us in the past,

Sadaf Beynon:

it's made a huge difference.

Matt Edmundson:

There's even a button actually, it's not set up on this

Matt Edmundson:

desk here, but with eCamm, there's a button where you can add markers.

Matt Edmundson:

And actually this is something that Steve Bartlett does at Diary of the CEO.

Matt Edmundson:

So when he's talking, if he's into a conversation that he thinks is actually

Matt Edmundson:

quite interesting or he wants, he's thinking, actually, this would be a

Matt Edmundson:

good promotional clip or something.

Matt Edmundson:

He just has a button.

Matt Edmundson:

We use the Stream Deck.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know what he uses.

Matt Edmundson:

I think he just uses a track pad underneath his desk, but you just

Matt Edmundson:

press the button and it, it sets a digital marker on the file.

Matt Edmundson:

And so again, production team can know Matt as a host thought this

Matt Edmundson:

would be a really interesting clip to use on social media.

Matt Edmundson:

So you can set markers, which I think is, I always forget

Matt Edmundson:

to do it, but you can do it.

Matt Edmundson:

That's quite a useful thing.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

I think going back to your question, when you're in production and you've got quite

Sadaf Beynon:

a few different podcasts that you're putting out for different audiences.

Sadaf Beynon:

Episodes that you're putting out for different podcasts.

Sadaf Beynon:

It is, this is something that we have done and do is that we get the

Sadaf Beynon:

host to give us their takeaways.

Sadaf Beynon:

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon:

They, what stood out to them.

Sadaf Beynon:

So then we can, and it depends on how you do your podcast, but how we do it

Sadaf Beynon:

is we put we create social media reels and content to put on social media.

Sadaf Beynon:

So it's helpful for us to know what the host thinks is

Sadaf Beynon:

really good to go out there.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, to go on social media.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So just jotting down your takeaways from the conversation which I would always

Matt Edmundson:

recommend if you're, when you're hosting, you do that straight away, either as

Matt Edmundson:

you're going along or immediately after the podcast, because within 20 minutes,

Matt Edmundson:

you'll have forgotten the conversation.

Matt Edmundson:

Certainly the details of it.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, help out your production team by jotting that stuff down

Matt Edmundson:

as soon as the podcast finished whilst it's freshening your memory.

Matt Edmundson:

And it all becomes really helpful because there's been times like I've seen you

Matt Edmundson:

send emails out to like Anna who hasn't put in a three takeaways and then I'll

Matt Edmundson:

be sitting there going, Oh Christmas, I can't remember what they were.

Matt Edmundson:

Now I've got to,

Matt Edmundson:

I've

Matt Edmundson:

got to scrub through the transcripts, try

Matt Edmundson:

and figure out what it was.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, that's another good top tip.

Matt Edmundson:

That actually works as you, like I said, that also works with the digital markers.

Matt Edmundson:

You can sometimes depending on the software you're using to record,

Matt Edmundson:

you can add digital markers.

Matt Edmundson:

Which really helps.

Matt Edmundson:

So whatever you can do to help the production team, definitely do it.

Matt Edmundson:

You want them to be your friends because if they're not your friends they'll

Matt Edmundson:

make you sound like Donald Duck or something, which is probably not going

Matt Edmundson:

to be, probably not going to be helpful.

Matt Edmundson:

There'll be an eCommerce podcast episode.

Matt Edmundson:

Matt tells like this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Matt Edmundson:

And so that's because that my voice has been altered.

Matt Edmundson:

But no, anything else?

Matt Edmundson:

No.

Matt Edmundson:

Is that it?

Matt Edmundson:

That's it.

Matt Edmundson:

Very good.

Matt Edmundson:

So there was a conversation about production.

Matt Edmundson:

I enjoyed that actually.

Matt Edmundson:

We don't not often talk about production.

Matt Edmundson:

No,

Sadaf Beynon:

we don't.

Matt Edmundson:

The stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

Matt Edmundson:

So Yes.

Matt Edmundson:

In fact, what's our process is just to give you a heads

Matt Edmundson:

up on what our process is.

Matt Edmundson:

We may have mentioned this before, but we record the podcast.

Matt Edmundson:

We then upload the video files to Dropbox and we fill out

Matt Edmundson:

what we call the AMP document.

Matt Edmundson:

So just things like takeaways and stuff like that gets all sent off to production.

Matt Edmundson:

Tanya and you guys import it into Descript, you cut the video up,

Matt Edmundson:

you create the reels, you export the audio with compressors and all

Matt Edmundson:

kinds of sound filters on there.

Matt Edmundson:

So then that goes off to production.

Matt Edmundson:

The podcast platform with the show notes, the reels get uploaded to social media

Matt Edmundson:

and the video gets uploaded to YouTube.

Matt Edmundson:

And that's the process.

Sadaf Beynon:

And that's it.

Matt Edmundson:

That's it.

Sadaf Beynon:

That is it.

Sadaf Beynon:

Simple.

Matt Edmundson:

Simple as.

Matt Edmundson:

He says.

Sadaf Beynon:

Takes no time at all.

Matt Edmundson:

So what's next week?

Matt Edmundson:

What are we talking about next week?

Sadaf Beynon:

We've got Eagan Heath back again, and it's a surprise.

Sadaf Beynon:

I can't remember.

Sadaf Beynon:

Oh,

Matt Edmundson:

it's the attention to detail.

Matt Edmundson:

So not only do you zone out, but it's the attention to detail.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And here we are saying, come use PodJunction and you'll be there soon.

Matt Edmundson:

Let me produce your podcast.

Matt Edmundson:

Fortunately, we've got a bigger team.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, any questions, let us know.

Matt Edmundson:

But yeah, I've enjoyed that one.

Matt Edmundson:

It's good to go down the production memory lane.

Matt Edmundson:

So do come join us next week.

Matt Edmundson:

Obviously, make sure you like and subscribe to the show wherever

Matt Edmundson:

you get your podcasts from.

Matt Edmundson:

But yeah, anything else from you?

Matt Edmundson:

No.

Matt Edmundson:

Awesome.

Matt Edmundson:

Have a great week, ladies and gentlemen.

Matt Edmundson:

We'll see you next week.

Matt Edmundson:

Bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon:

And that brings us to the end of today's episode at PodJunction.

Sadaf Beynon:

If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full

Sadaf Beynon:

conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit podjunction.

Sadaf Beynon:

com where you'll find more information about how you can join PodJunction Cohort.

Sadaf Beynon:

Whether you listen while on the go or in a quiet moment,

Sadaf Beynon:

thank you for letting us know.

Sadaf Beynon:

Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform

Sadaf Beynon:

your business with podcasting.

Sadaf Beynon:

So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next time, happy podcasting.

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