Without the right product images, nothing works. But: different style guides, missing samples, questions around color accuracy, videos - all of that can make costs skyrocket fast. Can AI help? Yes - when it acts as an on-set co-pilot for photographers and models, steering lighting, poses, style-guide compliance, and quality assurance. How this works in practice - and why it’s a real performance lever for fashion brands and sellers - is what Ingrid and Valerie discuss with Gianni Serazzi from Pixelmoda.
Takeaways:
Who is it for?
Experienced sellers and brand teams (not only in fashion) who treat content ops as a revenue and P&L lever - not a cost center.
So what we believe is that in the future you need somebody to take the first four or five pictures, okay?
Speaker A:And the first one or two videos in a super efficient and super perfect way.
Speaker A:And we want to be that player.
Speaker A:Then you feed that to the AI machine.
Speaker A:At that point, the AI will know how the folds are working.
Speaker A:The I will know what is the perfect color.
Speaker A:The I will know what are the shadows that this product is creating.
Speaker A:They will know, you know.
Speaker B:Let's Talk Marketplace.
Speaker C:The Marketplace Podcast with Ingrid Lommer and Vana Vridichter.
Speaker B:Hello everyone and welcome back to let's Talk Marketplace.
Speaker B:I'm Ingrid.
Speaker B:But today you won't be hearing too much from me because today's episode is all about fashion and that is firmly in my dear colleagues Valerie's territory, isn't it, Valerie?
Speaker C:Yeah, indeed.
Speaker C:Guilty as charged, I would say.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, I'm quite excited about the episode of today because it's diving into a topic which keeps me still very much on my toes.
Speaker C:Back, back in the days when I used to work for a fashion brand as a marketplace manager and also back in my time at Amazon, I was also responsible for product images the vendors had to upload.
Speaker C:And oh man, there are so many details which need to be verified, clarified.
Speaker C:And yeah, I'm really excited to talk today about product images and videos for mainly fashion and sports, especially on multiple marketplaces because there you need a lot of different images.
Speaker C:Every marketplace has different styles, style guides, and it's also a hell of a work and a huge cost factor.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Especially the cost factor, I guess.
Speaker B:But you know, our guest for today claims that his service can lower production costs for image production by 90%, I think he said, while keeping up a luxury grade quality which is indistinguishable from traditional high end fashion photography.
Speaker B:It's what I call a tall order.
Speaker C:Definitely.
Speaker C:So yeah, we are really very excited to have today here.
Speaker C:Gianni Serazzi, co founder of PixelModer.
Speaker C:With us, PixelModer is working at the intersection of AI and fashion visuals, helping brands create marketplace ready imagery in ways that are faster, more flexible and cost efficient.
Speaker C:Janny, welcome to the show.
Speaker A:Pleasure to be here.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's really great to have here.
Speaker C:Danny, to have you here.
Speaker C:Danny.
Speaker C:Before we dive deeper into image creation for fashion brands and what AI has to do with it, let's introduce you with our traditional three questions.
Speaker C:The first one is, who are you?
Speaker A:Good question.
Speaker A:I am a retired manager who came out of retirement for, for this great adventure.
Speaker A:We really saw AI coming four or five Years ago we had an idea that, you know, we were told AI will be substituting humans and we actually believe that AI working together with humans can achieve a better result.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:And I mean you doesn't look very much like a retired usual age.
Speaker C:Let me like that.
Speaker C:So what is your background, Johnny?
Speaker A:I was lucky enough.
Speaker A:I mean I grew up in Bain on the consulting side and then I've been working on starting some of my own companies and co investing with Bain Capital on a number of other ventures.
Speaker A:And I got lucky enough to be financial independent very early on and take care of these other investments.
Speaker A:So I own or co own a number of other companies and very privileged and lucky to be in that position.
Speaker A:But we really wanted to create something which is like a global platform.
Speaker A:So I think the headquarters are in Italy, but Italy represents less than 20% of our revenue.
Speaker A:We shoot in Miami, we shoot in, we have two hubs, one Miami for the US and one in Italy, which is actually, it's multiple studios just in Milan.
Speaker A:We have now four studios and we keep on growing, et cetera, but like large scale studios.
Speaker A:So we're really like a global company.
Speaker A:And it's not just a claim.
Speaker A:Like we have over 100 brands that can testify to whoever is interested that you know, we lower.
Speaker C:But, but to these questions we come later.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay, we'll get there then.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:What would you say what you do best in the product image business?
Speaker A:I mean, would be good to ask our clients, but you know, what we hear from them is not only we're the largest ones, but using the AI together with humans, it gives a level of precision that just humans cannot have.
Speaker A:And so we claim that the images and videos are indistinguishable, but they actually come back to us and they tell us the level of precision is even higher.
Speaker A:And then point number two is the cost is just a fraction.
Speaker A:Like 70% off on pictures, 90% off on videos.
Speaker A:This is numbers that we hear on a regular basis.
Speaker B:Okay, well you see Valerie, Gianni told us before that he didn't want to talk about himself.
Speaker B:But you tried your best.
Speaker B:I would say that's true.
Speaker C:Okay, Johnny, but now a personal one, a fun fact about you.
Speaker B:She's trying again, the personal one, one fun fact.
Speaker A:Well, I, I don't know, I don't know if it's, if it's really fun.
Speaker A:But you know I, I, I was earlier on I was in privileged enough and lucky enough to, to arrive at the, at the finals of the math Olympics.
Speaker A:And, and I realized I always Thought, you know, I was pretty good at math and there I realized how much stronger the human brain can be.
Speaker A:So that's when, you know, I quickly moved from being mathematics to really focusing myself on business.
Speaker A:Maybe there, you know, there's something better.
Speaker A:But, you know, you think you're good at something and then you find people or other, you know, other minds that are 10 times better than you, you know, it's a very humbling experience, but very great experience to have early on in life.
Speaker B:And I guess the basis for a good, for a good manager for later on.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So warm welcome for me as well, Jenny, and grateful to have you here.
Speaker B:And as you do like to talk much more about your service than about yourself, let's maybe have a few quick words about your company as well.
Speaker B:Because Moda, as you say, it's active globally and you are growing very strongly, but it still isn't that widely known.
Speaker B:So maybe in a few words first just describe what are you doing with Pixel?
Speaker A:I mean, we are now the global largest producers of pictures and videos.
Speaker A:Like there isn't anybody that's making more than us.
Speaker A:We keep on growing, you know, 10, 15% a month.
Speaker A:We have healthy pipeline of brands that want to come and marketplaces that want to come and frankly, you know, marketplaces that represent roughly half of our volumes and brands that represent half of our volumes.
Speaker A:Anybody that needs to produce high quality pictures and videos at scale, if they haven't looked into what PixelModa can do, frankly, they should.
Speaker A:Because the advantages, when people are rational and they look at the numbers, the advantages are just massive.
Speaker A:We haven't lost a single client since we started four and a half years ago.
Speaker A:And it's just the possibility of creating images that are indistinguishable because they are not AI generated.
Speaker A:So the partner can choose the model.
Speaker A:Every picture is shot by a real photographer.
Speaker A:Everything is perfectly aligned to the guideline of the brand or of the marketplace.
Speaker A:But the cost end up to be 70% off on pictures, 90% off on videos.
Speaker A:That's something we hear quite regular basis.
Speaker A:And this allows you to increase volumes.
Speaker A:So to increase.
Speaker A:Sorry, to increase the.
Speaker A:The number of pictures, the number of videos, which drives higher sales.
Speaker A:So again, our partners, they tell us they've been increasing 5 to 15% their sales online.
Speaker A:Some of them, they got super lucky.
Speaker A:They did, you know, over 30%, you know, but the average is 5 to 15% by adding videos, by adding pictures, and all of this without investing a penny, just by saving.
Speaker A:Like the day that they start with Pixel Moda, they save a ton of money.
Speaker A:And this is something that doesn't come that often in fashion or in any other business.
Speaker A:The possibility to grow your business and to save quite dramatically, you know, on, on, on a cost line that like verily was saying can be very, very relevant for a brand or for a marketplace.
Speaker A:We only do fashion accessories.
Speaker A:We've had industry giants, probably the largest marketplace saying, hey, you know, can you also do the videos on, on unboxing a product?
Speaker A:Like we really, really focus and we stay focused on fashion and luxury, you know, that's what we are, you know.
Speaker B:And can you name a few customers maybe?
Speaker A:Oh, I would like not to.
Speaker A:But let's say that if you take.
Speaker A:We have a lot of confidentiality clauses in the contracts that we have.
Speaker A:But if you, I mean if you.
Speaker A:Three out of the five largest online marketplaces, global or fashion, luxury, they are our clients.
Speaker A:And we just did, you know, we just checked, you know, of the top 100 luxury brands, okay, globally there is 20 which are already with us.
Speaker A:We are by far the largest player, 20 which are already with us.
Speaker A:And we are talking to another 15.
Speaker A:You know, it takes time to activate because many of them, they have internal teams, many of them, they have long term contracts with the current supplier.
Speaker A:This is a large industry.
Speaker A:There's about 6,000 brands and 500 multi brands globally to do fashion and luxury that spend over half a million in PDP so online images a year.
Speaker A:And we're just over 100 clients.
Speaker A:But we keep on growing, growing, growing.
Speaker A:And like I said, you know, on luxury and on marketplaces we already have the big names, you know, they're already there.
Speaker A:They're already there.
Speaker A:That makes us really proud.
Speaker C:So let's say like, if you don't say it, like three out of five fashion marketplaces in the globally.
Speaker C:So I would say maybe Zalando, Amazon, something like that.
Speaker A:I think they all sound good.
Speaker B:Okay, getting closer.
Speaker B:It's warmer.
Speaker C:Pretty warm.
Speaker B:Okay, I get it.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's keep it.
Speaker B:This is warm area.
Speaker C:And yeah, maybe I will take over here a bit from my experience because when I, when I worked for a brand for fashion brand, I also was responsible for product images because we started with marketplace business and there was like, hey, do we have product images?
Speaker C:And then they were like, yeah, of course we have an online shop.
Speaker C:And I had a look at the pictures and I was like, okay, not any possibility on earth that any marketplace will take these pictures.
Speaker C:So we need to reshoot all of the NOS dials we had.
Speaker C:We need this Also for the future seasons, new photo shootings, etc.
Speaker C:And obviously we had this like, ah, we have an internal photo studio and the marketing team came there like, yeah, but we want to have our look and feel.
Speaker C:And I was like, yeah, I understand you, but our look and feel doesn't.
Speaker C:Zalando doesn't give a shit about our look and feel.
Speaker C:They want to have like the cropping, they want to have the size, the model, the lipstick, not lipstick, et cetera.
Speaker C:And then about.
Speaker C:You had different guidelines and Amazon has different guidelines and Boynegar has different covering.
Speaker C:And then you say, you're like, okay, how many different photo shooting angles for one article shall we do?
Speaker C:And then the costs are like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Speaker C:And it's like getting higher and higher.
Speaker C:And then you think like, okay, but if I want to connect all the different needs from different departments internally, this is like insane.
Speaker C:We cannot do this.
Speaker C:And then you have to book a model for the day and then you realize, ah, but not all the samples are there.
Speaker C:Oh, we changed something at a simple.
Speaker C:And then you have like a photo shooting with the model and then you have still photography on another day and then you upload it and then you think, realize this blues, but a different blue than the other one.
Speaker C:But it's the same article, so what is the right blue?
Speaker C:And oh, there are so many nitty gritty details.
Speaker C:And I don't start from like, how big in size in the jpeg, like, which cropping, uploading it to different middlewares, like sorting out, naming the different product images and the product.
Speaker C:Oh man, it's such a hassle.
Speaker C:I wrote a style guide myself and it's really like seven years ago, so really a long time ago.
Speaker C:And I think it had like 50 sites and it was just like underwear, nightwear and swimwear.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Oh man.
Speaker C:And it's such a hassle for brands.
Speaker C:And I still talk with brands, obviously I'm still very much connected to them.
Speaker C:And then they're like, yeah, we still have our internal shootings.
Speaker C:And I'm like, oh man, I feel you.
Speaker C:And then they tell me like, yeah, but our marketing team has the lead.
Speaker C:And then I'm like, okay, but who's deciding the costs?
Speaker C:And then we are in the, in the maybe talking fields, because I would say marketplace managers, they have a much more need on like, yeah, obviously the style guide approved product images of their brand and they all, I mean, we all need to save money, right?
Speaker C:And to save costs, especially for product images and videos.
Speaker C:And then on the other Side it's like, yeah, but can we do a video here and there?
Speaker C:And you said it like a video for €150 is quite a usual price.
Speaker C:And overall photo shooting costs are.
Speaker C:Then you have like, oh, styles and has the style list for the, for the model and the photographer and yeah, so it's, I think it's really time to also think about outsourcing that topic.
Speaker C:And I know from you and our talks, Johnny, also that you have the main topic in if you don't get a client.
Speaker C:It's mostly the topic of internal teams who are saying, oh no, they cannot do this as well as we do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Well, it's always politics and it's change resistance.
Speaker A:When people are objective and they look what's the best for my marketplace and what's the best of my brand and they do for free an A B test with us, then it's as clear as night and day, I'm selling more, I'm saving usually on pictures, 70%, on videos 90%.
Speaker A:There's just no reason whatsoever not to implement this solution.
Speaker A:But we understand we are disruptive technology and a lot of people or brands, they are against change and it's a human being.
Speaker A:And if the decision goes into the hands of the people that are managing right now this content production, then it becomes a survival instinct.
Speaker A:You know, I might have the same reaction if I were in their shoes.
Speaker A:You know, it's, you know, I see technologies within my lunch and there's resistance and there is brands and companies that are embracing it and they're the winner ones and there is brands and companies that are resisting it and it's very funny because like we have two clients competing head to head and both public and one, as you know, has been resisting and resisting and not allow and not giving us the data to do a full quote of the price, not even the data.
Speaker A:You know, we sign all the NDAs of the world not allowing us to show them how we can be the world's most perfect photocopy machine.
Speaker A:That's how we define ourselves, you know, and not giving us the input to even take a picture even if we're free.
Speaker A:And the stock price went down like 97% and the other ones competing in the same market head to head, blah blah, blah.
Speaker A:And the stock prices went up like 15% and it's like you can really see companies that are embracing change without locking yourself in.
Speaker A:I would never lock myself in.
Speaker A:Even with us, AI is changing so fast.
Speaker A:Both the gen portion and the non gen portion.
Speaker A:I wouldn't want to lock myself into any contract or anything, but if I have something that out delivers my current situation and I don't embrace it, I should really think that by doing that I am putting my company at great peril.
Speaker B:Let's talk a bit about the tech side of this because you have been mentioning again and again that PixelModer is using AI for is an AI assistant assisted company.
Speaker B:So how do you use AI and what is the difference from how you are doing it to what everyone is talking about at the moment, which is Gen AI?
Speaker A:So two things.
Speaker A:First of all, we come from the luxury world originally, right?
Speaker A:So our first clients are big luxury clients, etc.
Speaker A:If you were to tell them four years ago we're using Gen AI, they will probably kill you and physically threaten.
Speaker C:Okay, just like, let me like, let me ask.
Speaker C:Gen AI means I have a like a really, just AI generated image.
Speaker C:There is no real person on this product.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There's just like a generated product image with the product, but all digital.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Just like to.
Speaker C:To prove it.
Speaker C:Yeah, correct.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I can either take what I have designed.
Speaker A:There isn't even a physical product.
Speaker A:I have designed something and before it goes into manufacturing, I can have an AI model create or AI engine, I should say create an image of this item either flat or on a model or creative in a video.
Speaker A:Now the problem is what I design and what comes out from production, even from uber luxury brands, it's quite significantly different.
Speaker A:And if my black comes out different than something else or you know, if, if the, the fold that I see on a garment are different, then I might have saved, you know, to create a PDP could be as low as 20 bucks or it could be as high as 60 bucks depending on what model I want, how many views, etc, you know.
Speaker A:But I might have saved, you know, let's put an average of like 40 bucks for that SKU.
Speaker A:But I might have cost for product return that are €4,000.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I might have lower, lower conversion that's costing me €40,000.
Speaker A:So I've saved some money, but I have really, really hurt my P and L. So then people said yeah, you know, but then there's a second way of using the Gen AI which is I still take the garment, the physical garment that from production I put it on the mannequin and after I have it on a mannequin so I can see the exact color.
Speaker A:The problem is if I use that to then extrapolate a whole bunch of pictures and a whole bunch of videos Again, AI is just simulating, simulating today, which is much better than three or four years ago, but not perfect and can just simulate what the folds are going to be from a 2D picture.
Speaker A:I cannot see if this T shirt is 0.1 millimeter or 0.3 millimeters for example.
Speaker A:So the gen AI is going to generate a bunch of pictures on many different models with many different backgrounds.
Speaker A:But it's just making, you know, it's just imagining what the folds will be.
Speaker A:If I have to do a video, it's just imagining how this product is going to fit on my body.
Speaker A:It doesn't know how elastic it is, for example, because I just taken some pictures on a mannequin.
Speaker A:Now again, this is lower of a risk, but it's still quite a quite significant risk where I might have some significant returns on one or two or three bad items that come out bad that wipe out the savings that I've had for 5,000 SKUs that I shot this way.
Speaker A:So what we started doing since the beginning is of course we use genai only if the client access and we use the best partners in the world and it's changing so fast that the best partner today to do that specific thing can be different than what is in one month or in two months time.
Speaker A:So we always offer to our partners the best technology on the gen AI but then we also developed our own technology which is as far as we've seen, we haven't seen anybody else having it in the world where AI is helping the teams on the set to go so much faster.
Speaker A:We call it the copilot.
Speaker A:We go so much faster if the light is out, the copilot stops and tells us right a way how to adjust it if the model doesn't have the right pose.
Speaker A:And we can do all these things respecting exactly the DNA of every single brand.
Speaker A:There's a large luxury brand like definitely one of the top 30 in the world, you know, that took one of our B2B picture like a seven year old picture and run a campaign with it for the United States.
Speaker A:She's a massive market, you know.
Speaker A:And the reason why is because they told us oh this respects so much our DNA.
Speaker A:Why we're a photocopy machine, you know, we don't take good or bad pictures, we just take pictures which are very, very precise what the brand tells us to take so or the, or the marketplace tells us to take.
Speaker A:So what we have done is just feeding.
Speaker A:We feed, you know, hundreds of SKUs, how they want them shot, etc.
Speaker A:What they've done up until yesterday.
Speaker A:And the AI learns exactly what that brand wants, and we deliver exactly that at a fraction of the cost.
Speaker A:And so it used to be when the clients ask us, hey, do you guys also do editorials or campaigns?
Speaker A:We used to say no.
Speaker A:Now we say, only by mistake.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:And Danny, to keep it more on the AI side as well.
Speaker C:So you said like, it's like a production assistant.
Speaker C:So how can I imagine this?
Speaker C:Like, you have like the photo shoot and there is like an AI talking with you or with like the.
Speaker C:How does it work in reality?
Speaker A:I mean, it's just a regular team.
Speaker A:Maybe there's one extra person on the set.
Speaker A:And you would see, you know, the photographer, you would see the stylist, that they receive constant input, you know, by the AI, so that they move forward faster.
Speaker A:And you would see the whole team performing at a speed that is, you know, not possible just with humans, but it's possible when you have humans and AI working together.
Speaker A:And I would say AI, but there's also some good old software components that have nothing to do with AI.
Speaker A:But let's say humans and machine together works very well.
Speaker C:And that's the reason why you can have this crazy cost efficiency.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:We used to have partners where they say, hey, we usually produce 50 SKUs per day per team.
Speaker A:And once we train the AI, once we train our teams and our trains are trained to work with the AI the same.
Speaker A:You know, we have teams that work and our throughput is 150 per day.
Speaker A:But, you know, the photographers are costing the same, the models are costing the same, but you have triple the throughput.
Speaker A:So the cost per SKU is, you know, one third simple.
Speaker A:And this is something that we see on a.
Speaker A:On a regular basis.
Speaker A:You know, it's something that we've seen over and over again.
Speaker A:And that's something that we couldn't do without the technology aspect.
Speaker A:And that's also why we don't license out our technology.
Speaker A:You know, our technology needs to be run with people that are trained on our technology.
Speaker A:You know, there's a whole process on training photographers, Training stylists, training DJs to work with our tech.
Speaker A:You know, and that's why we have our own hubs.
Speaker A:The goods can travel all over the world.
Speaker A:When you're saving 200 bucks, 300 bucks per sku, when you include both the savings on pictures and on videos, you know, it just makes no sense trying to optimize for the €5 that you would save.
Speaker A:Avoiding the shipment from New York to Miami or from New York to Milan, for example, you know, and we have bonded facilities so we're super fast.
Speaker A:You don't have to even to go through customs, you know, like everything is super organized.
Speaker A:I mean it's not, not by surprise that you know, the largest players in the world, you know, they're with us.
Speaker A:And most pain in the neck clients, which we welcome very much on the luxury side there with us.
Speaker C:Okay, but it's not just luxury you do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You also do like all kind of fashion and sports fashion.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Listen, when you can do the uber luxury brands and when you can do the uber large marketplaces that need super high throughput and cannot afford one hour of delay, then you can do all the rest of the market.
Speaker A:So we by purpose we started with the most and hardest clients.
Speaker A:So then the rest feels like, you know, easy.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's also what I usually say is like start with Solando marketplace and then the other ones are much easier.
Speaker C:I mean from the brand perspective, like selling there.
Speaker C:Yeah, because that's, I obviously am different than luxury brands from the fashion industry.
Speaker C:But yeah, in terms of like a brand's perspective, that's what I usually say.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So how fast are you?
Speaker C:I mean you always said, you said already like your processes are very, very fast.
Speaker C:And I mean usually when I think about like planning a photo shooting or like.
Speaker C:Yeah, there's no photographer today.
Speaker C:So you are in Milan, in Europe, like headquarter of models, I would say, or town of the models in Europe.
Speaker C:Do you have some examples?
Speaker C:If I would come to you today as a fashion brand and I want some product, images and videos, when would I have my final picture with me?
Speaker A:So I can give you an upper bound and a lower bound.
Speaker A:There are some clients that say just give us the best price that you guys can.
Speaker A:You know, we don't care about having the pictures and the video super fast because in any case we put them online the same day that we put them in our, in our stores.
Speaker A:So you know, right now we are running a production that takes three weeks and we tell them, listen, for us, give us four days, five days maximum.
Speaker A:We don't have any client that is above five days.
Speaker C:Okay, and then the others, when do you start counting?
Speaker A:Oh, when they give us the product.
Speaker A:When they give us the product.
Speaker C:When you have the product in Milan, for example.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, either in Milan or we have facilities, we have logistic partners.
Speaker A:So we have a facility, jfk, we have facility at lax, we have facility in London Heathrow.
Speaker A:So when they deliver to one of our facilities globally, Hong Kong.
Speaker A:We have, you know, when they deliver to us, then we take care of all the rest.
Speaker A:Okay, so if there is shipment included, it will take five days.
Speaker A:You know, it's, it's.
Speaker A:I don't remember.
Speaker A:Maybe there's a few exceptions, but I don't remember anything about five days.
Speaker A:And then you have the opposite.
Speaker A:You have some clients that say, hey, typically they are the multi brands or you know, some brands that do not have a lot of time to shoot because they have sample sets and they want it shot super fast.
Speaker A:And then we say, hey, you know, on the opposite side, we run production on 0.5 days.
Speaker A:So in four hours, in five hours, it's time to online.
Speaker A:So in five hours, it's on your website, it's checked, checked by your teams, you know, post produced, you know, reformatted, put in your payment dam.
Speaker A:Sometimes we even do the copy if they ask us, you know, like, it's full service and super speedy and it goes up there.
Speaker A:Of course, the cost is, it's higher when we have to run like this.
Speaker A:We run our facilities 24 7.
Speaker A:So we can shoot during the weekends, we can shoot during the night.
Speaker A:You know, we're very flexible, very flexible, you know, and that gives us.
Speaker A:Again, this is something that we've learned working with the Uber luxury.
Speaker A:You cannot say you brand, you.
Speaker A:You can only do these things when you're an Uber luxury brand.
Speaker A:They'll tell you, no, we tell you how we want to shoot and then you, you build your business model so you can be super flexible on that.
Speaker C:Okay, I would say let's connect a bit to just performance.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:What's the roe of good imagery on marketplaces?
Speaker C:So how can brands shift their mindset from seeing content as a cost center to recognizing it's a conversion driver?
Speaker C:How do you do this?
Speaker A:That's a good question.
Speaker A:And we have a funny, funny answers.
Speaker A:And then, and then we have some numbers to back it up.
Speaker A:So the funny answer is it's infinite because to have a return on investments or you need an investment here you don't like, there isn't any single client, Even the client that went from having 4 picture to having 11 pictures and 2 videos, they're still spending less than 4 pixels.
Speaker A:Like I cannot recall a single client that is not pocketing some very, very healthy savings.
Speaker A:And we've had luxury brands telling us, you must be losing money on this.
Speaker A:You must.
Speaker A:The company is very healthy.
Speaker A:We pay back all of our debt, we're debt free.
Speaker A:We keep on Growing, absolutely.
Speaker A:Cash flow positive, EBDA positive.
Speaker A:Etc, like, we're seeing your part, a serious partner, but you know, like, don't worry about counterpart risk, but believe us, we have our own margins in there and they're healthy.
Speaker A:That's, that's a fair partnership, you know, that's that, that's the, that's the thing.
Speaker A:So you cannot really have, you know, a return on investment because there is no investment.
Speaker A:It's a negative investment.
Speaker A:And it happens many times.
Speaker A:The brands, they say, but what if I, what if we don't want to save money, we just want to reinvest?
Speaker A:And we tell them, like, I don't think you can reinvest all of that, all of that.
Speaker A:At least not with us.
Speaker A:I mean, go out and do some more campaigns, go out, do some more editorial, but you can't reinvest all of this money with us.
Speaker A:Your collection is not big enough.
Speaker A:I mean, if you wear, you know, as a land, or if you wear a mitre, etc.
Speaker A:Then you would have much bigger production on which you can kill these costs.
Speaker A:But you're a brand, you can't reinvest all of this money.
Speaker A:And we told them, you know, sometimes they ask us, but can you also help us do better pictures?
Speaker A:And like, I don't know what is better.
Speaker A:I mean, I really don't know what is better.
Speaker A:You are the brand, you're the only one.
Speaker A:We have some creative teams, but you can work even without them.
Speaker A:You can, you know, with all the money that you saved, you can call Steven Maisel and decide with him, you know, how your picture should be.
Speaker A:Do a production for 50 SKUs and then we will be that perfect photocopy machine that you scale from 50 to the other, you know, 5,000 SKUs that are going to be perfectly aligned with that and you're not going to see the difference.
Speaker A:What was shot by Steven Baizel, what was shot by us, you know, and we super much respect that.
Speaker A:I just say, as an example of one of the greatest, greatest photographers that is out there today.
Speaker A:The other serious answer to your question is, okay, even if there is no investment, what are the results that we can expect?
Speaker A:Yeah, typically is that plus 5 to plus 15%.
Speaker A:That all comes from increased conversion.
Speaker A:So plus 5 to plus 16% is something that we see regularly.
Speaker C:You mean in total sales.
Speaker A:So the same sku, the same SKU with more content, the same SKU that had four or five pictures, that now has nine pictures, some of them with virtual background if the client wants, and have two Videos.
Speaker A:Videos has a huge impact by the way, and has a couple of videos and as a size and fit video, you would see, you know that you know, plus 5 to plus 15%.
Speaker A:And then on the, on the return rate, if you add a size and fit video and a couple of close ups on the details pictures, you would see, you know, reduction that can go between -5 and -20% of your returns, you know, which again, big impact on.
Speaker C:Your P and L. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I have to look at the time a bit, Janni, because we're already over, but I'd like to come back to the topic of AI just for a final question because you said before, things are changing so fast and the technology is moving extremely fast.
Speaker B:And as you are developing yourself but also working with partners, what do you see for image AI in fashion specifically in the next years, what is coming?
Speaker B:What developments are you most excited about?
Speaker A:So our point of view is quite precise.
Speaker A:I have no idea if it's right or wrong.
Speaker A:Time will tell.
Speaker A:You will call me back in a few years and tell me how wrong I was.
Speaker A:But we see AI as a multiplier of content.
Speaker A:So you cannot have just unleash Gen AI unless you're a very low end market, you're selling super low end dirt and and you don't care about return because people cannot return the product easily to you.
Speaker A:And you don't care about having the right perfect color, the right perfect folder.
Speaker A:Then that part is going to go gen AI.
Speaker A:But maybe it's 10% of the market.
Speaker A:It's the real, real low end of the market.
Speaker A:But then what AI can do.
Speaker A:What we see over and over is the brands and the multi brands should not be thinking about what's the best shadow, what's the best model that we can put there.
Speaker A:This influencer brand plus your sales plus or minus 5%.
Speaker A:The brand should really focus on like oh my gosh, if I put two videos that maybe are not that great, but there are two videos while I design what is the great video for me.
Speaker A:But while I am waiting to design that which we can replicate, start putting some basic videos out there and this is increasing your sales 5, 10, 15%.
Speaker A:You should do it tomorrow morning.
Speaker A:Like the opportunity cost of waiting is huge.
Speaker A:So what we believe is that in the future you need somebody to take the first four or five pictures, okay?
Speaker A:And the first one or two videos in a super efficient and super perfect way.
Speaker A:And we want to be that player.
Speaker A:Then you feed that to the AI machine.
Speaker A:At that point the AI will know how the folds are working.
Speaker A:The AI will know what is the perfect color.
Speaker A:The AI will know what are the shadows that this product is creating.
Speaker A:They will know, you know, and then from there, for example, there's a size and fit video where I'm pulling my garment.
Speaker A:The AI doesn't know how elastic it is.
Speaker A:You can just make it up.
Speaker A:But if you do this first, you know, five, six, seven pictures and one and two videos, you know, and this can be done super efficiently.
Speaker A:It's going to cost you less than what it cost you today to take four pictures, you know, way less than that.
Speaker A:Then you use AI to do, hey, I want to have another three videos or hey, I want to have.
Speaker A:I want to do a face swap for the model.
Speaker A:Because, for example, this is something that we brought to a luxury brand this year which is working super well.
Speaker A:They increased the sales over 30% in Asia because they took our pictures and we helped them do the face swap with Asia models for the Asian markets.
Speaker A:It seems stupid, it seems easy, but that was close to 30% higher conversion rate and they never wanted to do anything with Gen AI.
Speaker A:The face swap is Gen AI because we're not touching the product.
Speaker A:So they were absolutely against Gen, you know.
Speaker A:But we said, listen, it's not gen on the product.
Speaker A:Nothing has changed on the product.
Speaker A:It's just the face of the model.
Speaker A:Then they did it.
Speaker A:They could never shoot before on Asian models because they didn't have the budget used to cost them €600, €700 per sku.
Speaker A:Just the pictures without the video.
Speaker A:Now we can do that face swap and they've seen these huge results and I'm like, great.
Speaker A:Now you see.
Speaker A:So I believe that there's a role for, from.
Speaker A:For a player that gives you super, super good, super high quality pictures and videos that are not Gen AI, okay?
Speaker A:That respect 100% the brand DNA and that are shot in a super efficient way.
Speaker A:And then there's going to be a layer of Gen AI where it's going to double or triple my account of content.
Speaker A:And then the players are going to be winning are the ones that are using it in a smart way.
Speaker A:If I know that that customer has a high chance, it's going to be Asian.
Speaker A:I'm going to show you in the Asian model with this type of video.
Speaker A:If I know that that customer is going to be in this segment, I'm going to use it in the young fashion segment.
Speaker A:I'm going to show in this other picture with these other poses, with, with this other face model and with this other video.
Speaker A:And they're going to be optimizing for higher conversion.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's an interesting lookout.
Speaker B:Johnny, I don't think I will be calling you in five years and tell you how wrong it is because it sounds very sound to me.
Speaker B:But yeah, thanks for joining us today and for your insights on this very much evolving and interesting market.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you very much, pixelmodel.net, anybody that wants to get in contact with us and we'd love to help you in this journey.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Thank you so much, Sunny.
Speaker C:It was really a pleasure.
Speaker C:And for all of those of you are listening, if you want to learn more about Pixel Motor and how they help brands get Marketplace ready with AI powered imagery, well link our extensive service provider portrait in the show notes.
Speaker C:And we also have a webinar together in December, I guess.
Speaker B:December.
Speaker B:Yes, in December.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's it for today.
Speaker B:So don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast, wherever so you don't miss out the next one where we will give you an update on everything important that happened in the Marketplace world in September.
Speaker B:So see you then.
Speaker B:Bye bye.
Speaker C:Bye bye.
Speaker B:You listen to let's Talk Marketplace, the.
Speaker C:Marketplace podcast with Ingrid Lommer and Valerie Dichtel.