Shownotes
Episode Description
Navigating the complexities of parenting adult children can be challenging, often filled with unexpected tensions and disappointments. Wendy Green and her guest, Denise Gliwa, delve into the evolving dynamics of parent-child relationships as children transition into adulthood. They discuss the crucial shift from a parenting role to one of support and understanding, emphasizing the importance of listening and resisting the urge to offer unsolicited advice. Denise shares valuable insights from her podcast, "Bite Your Tongue," highlighting the significance of building healthy relationships with adult children by respecting their autonomy and allowing them to lead their own lives. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of how parents can adapt and foster connections, even when their children are no longer dependent on them.
Takeaways:
- As children grow into adults, parents must shift from direct involvement to supportive roles.
- It's essential for parents to recognize their adult children's autonomy and respect their independence.
- The concept of intergenerational stake explains why parents feel more invested in family relationships.
- Biting your tongue can be a powerful strategy for maintaining healthy relationships with adult children.
- Communication should focus on listening and understanding rather than offering unsolicited advice.
- Maintaining connections with adult children requires effort and understanding of their individual journeys.
Links
Listen to Bite Your Tongue Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.
Email Denise Gliwa at biteyourtonguepodcast@gmail.com
Become a member of Boomer Banter and join our virtual community meetings. Use this link to sign up.
Check out the comprehensive Clear Kit and use the code Boomer Banter at checkout to get 10% off.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
There was a time when my children thought I knew everything. They were those precious little beings that would snuggle with me and let me read to them and shower love on them.
We expect things to change as they become teens. But for most of us, we expect once they are adults, all will be well again.
If you do a search on Google for parenting adult children, you will get over 700,000 results. Why are there so many questions, concerns about being a parent to an adult child?
And yet when we look on Facebook, it looks like everyone has an ideal relationship with their family. Are we just not talking about the challenges of being parents to adult children with our friends?
What do we expect things to be like once our kids are on their own? And how does that cause tension and disappointment? Our roles definitely change as our children get older.
Our time in the mutual adoration phase of parenting is really not that long, is it? Our time as parents of adults lasts many times longer.
In today's episode, we're going to break through some of the myths that everyone else has the perfect relationship with their adult children. We're going to talk about how to stay close and how to let go. But letting go of what? Hmm? We'll talk about that.
And we'll talk about what we mean by staying close and what our children might mean by staying close. Welcome to Boomer Banter, the podcast where we have real talk about aging. Well, my name is Wendy Green, and I am your host.
And my guest today is Denise Gliwa, the host of the podcast bite your tongue, building healthy relationships with your adult children. For 35 years, Denise had a career in public relations and marketing, working in New York, Denver, and China.
But she always had a dream of being a talk show host. And now, with her podcast, she is fulfilling that dream. We have a lot to talk about.
But before I bring Denise on, I want to invite you to join the Boomer Banter membership. You would stay connected. Keep learning. Well, after the podcast is over, twice a month we get together virtually in what I call the banter meeting.
We talk about all kinds of things on the minds of older adults.
Past topics have included how we use humor, the four agreements facing your fears, lifelong learning time and how it's moving so fast, and how do we use it, and many other topics. And in the second monthly meeting, I call that the boomer believers.
And we also meet in a virtual session where I invite one of our guests from that month to join us for a more interactive conversation where you can ask your questions and give your feedback and learn from each other. About what we discussed in that episode. To become a member of Boomer Banter. It costs only $25 a month.
to buymeacoffee.com heyboomer:Hi, Denise. Hi.
Denise Gliwa:I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me, Wendy.
Wendy Green:Oh, I'm so glad. I mean, we met, what, two years.
Denise Gliwa:Ago now in Denver.
Wendy Green:In Denver. And it's just so fun to be able to share our work together with other people.
Denise Gliwa:Yeah. I love what you're doing, and I guess I'll encourage everyone to join her membership group. It's really great.
And you'll love talking to Wendy and other experts, and it's a great support of the work you do, Wendy.
Wendy Green:Thank you, Denise.
Denise Gliwa:You're welcome.
Wendy Green:So I wanted to start by unraveling some of the myths we may have believed about what it would be like to be parents of adult children. What have you learned about that?
Denise Gliwa:Well, I think I can talk about my own experience a little bit. I think we all thought zero to 18. There's so many books written on how to potty train tantrums. Are they getting to what they need in first grade?
But suddenly you think, oh, you at 18, I'm going to be done. I'm going to relax and it's going to all be over. And then we're just friends. And really all of that has really changed.
You know, before I go into this, Wendy, I wanted to just say one thing to your listeners. I am not an expert. I gotta put that on the table.
What I'm sharing with you, you know, I host the podcast bite your tongue, building healthy relationships with your adult children. What I'm sharing with you is sort of everything I've learned from my 87 plus episodes, talking to experts.
And so I think I've got a lot to share and it's all very meaningful. But remember, this is all my interpretation of everything. So I want to make that really clear upfront.
Wendy Green:But anyway, back to, but let me just, let me interject there, too. You have been a parent. You have been a parent and you learn a lot from your guests. I mean, I've listened to your shows, Denise.
You learn a lot from your guys.
Denise Gliwa:Some of the things I'm going to say are things I've learned from this.
So I think, you know, when my kids were growing up, I didn't feel as when they went off to college and they were still on my paycheck, I felt as though my opinion mattered a little bit more. And I didn't take it as. As badly, I guess.
But when they're on their own and they find their own person and their own life and they're supporting themselves, you know, you're moving from being on stage with them to the orchestra. Lucky, we're at the will call desk, you know, and we have to realize this is their own life. And I think that's the hardest thing, separating.
Separating yourself from them, your expectations of them to their expectations of them. And I think that's a challenge. It's a whole new role. And I always try to take the word parenting out because our parenting is done.
It's really building healthy relationships. It's learning how to be a consultant to them.
I don't want to say a friend, because that's really hard, but an important person in their life that loves them without judgment and without intrusion, and we sometimes expect more.
I was going to bring this up later, but I'm bring it up now because one of the most important things I think I learned was from Carl Pillimer, and I don't remember the episode number, but he wrote a book called Fault Lines, and it was really about estrangement. But one of the psychological terms he brought brought up was something called intergenerational stake.
And what that means is our stake in our relationship with our adult children is much greater than their stake in their relationship with us, meaning we've given emotionally, financially, psychologically, we expect a quote unquote payoff. However, they may love us, but they're now building their lives. We're winding down, so we want more of that relationship.
They're building their lives, their jobs, their families. As I say, they could love you, but they don't need that strong relationship as much as we do.
And once we realize that, it becomes a lot easier to build that healthy relationship.
Wendy Green:That is so wise and so difficult. Right.
Denise Gliwa:Because so wise and so difficult.
Wendy Green:I know, because we do. We put our heart and souls into being their parent, and we don't quite understand why they don't want us there all the time. Yeah.
Denise Gliwa:And yet you look back to when you were a young adult, and I try really hard to reflect back on that. You know, what did my mom and dad do that worked and that I welcomed and what really bothered me. It's so hard. It's so hard.
Wendy Green:I know. I know. So tell me this. I love the name of your show, by the way. Bite your tongue.
Denise Gliwa:Yeah, you can almost stop the interview and just say, bite your tongue.
Wendy Green:Bite your tongue. That's really the best advice.
Denise Gliwa:It is the best advice.
Wendy Green:But as you mentioned, you have learned as you've gone along through your podcast, and I'm curious if your children have noticed the evolution in the way you interact with them since you started the podcast.
Denise Gliwa:Well, we talk about it a lot. I don't know if they'd say, wow, I've really noticed it, mom. I'm pretty out front with them, so I'll say, this is what I learned today.
This is what this person said. I'm pretty blatant about it. What do you think of this? I would have to say I've tried to learn more. Have they seen it?
I don't think they've really seen big changes, Wendy. But when I really blow it, I say I've really blown it. And I've learned that from my podcast.
And Lord knows I could listen and listen, and I still blow it. But I always say, guys, that was my fault. This isn't my life.
My son recently told me, I said a little too much, and he looked at me and he said, mom, stay in your lane.
Wendy Green:Oh, and how did you take that?
Denise Gliwa:I said, you're right, because what I asked was completely inappropriate.
But it was fighting at me, you know, and I didn't do what I needed to do, bite my tongue or work carefully on what I was going to say before I said it.
Wendy Green:Wow. Smart son.
Denise Gliwa:Smart son. And in a very loving way. You know, it was not, we were together. He lives in New York, but we were together at the time.
And it was said in a very loving, warm way. And he knew exactly. He was right. And he was right.
Wendy Green:Yeah. It's funny. My family is a family of advice givers, and my children have been teaching me over the years, no advice, mom. And.
And I try really hard, but like you, every once in a while, I'll slip up and my son will say the same kind of thing to me. Like, mom, no advice.
Denise Gliwa:Well, one of the things, one of the things I learned and this I've worked on, and I think they might have noticed this, but not really. I don't know. I should go in. Let's see.
I said, when they call and say everything's going wrong at work, my boss said this, blah, blah, blah, instead of going right into. Have you talked to human resources? Have you thought about writing them a letter?
You know, Julie Lithcott Haynes, who was a dean at Harvard, and somebody I interviewed, she wrote the book called your turn. She said, just stop and say, gosh, I'm so sorry this is happening. Is there anything I can do? Do you have any questions?
Wendy Green:Or.
Denise Gliwa:Someone else said to me, say, there are lots of little phrases you can use. Tell me more. Always show curiosity. Instead of finding the answers, think curiously. Tell me more. How did that feel?
You know, never go right to, well, do you want me to call Sam Smith? Who knows? So and so so and so? That can solve the so and so so and so?
Or, you know, or one of my favorite, favorite interviews with Charles Fay, who's a founder of love and logic. And we did a little role playing on a kid that had a $14,000 money due on a truck he bought.
And, you know, Faye said, you just want to sit there and roll your eggs, you stupid kid. Why'd you buy this truck? You know? And he just had such a way of saying, hmm, what do you think you should do?
Wendy Green:There you go. You made the purchase. Now what are you going to do about it?
And, you know, I think that's a really good point, Denise, because so many parents are overly involved in fixing the problems for their children, and I think we see it even more today.
Denise Gliwa:Absolutely.
Wendy Green:And by helping your children recognize that there are consequences to their actions, and they'll be responsible for that, you're building resilience in them.
Denise Gliwa:Yeah.
Wendy Green:And I feel like it's respectful, you know, like, you're not saying, I don't believe you can do this. I respect that you can figure this out.
Denise Gliwa:Right. You're absolutely right. So, you know, the other thing is, I think that when I started my podcast, not too many people were talking about this yet.
Everyone I sat down with, my friends, that's all we would talk about. However, people are afraid to sort of admit some of the struggles they're having with their adult children.
It's kind of like the elephant in the room. And I've talked about that in a lot of episodes, and it really comes down to this sort of fear of failure.
You've put all of this in to your adult child, and now you don't feel like they're doing what you expected them to do. And first we have to sort of separate ourselves kind of from that and also realize that they're gonna be their own person.
You know, when they were young, you could talk about potty training, you could talk about reading, you could talk about all this. But suddenly, it's like, I don't wanna tell you that my son's still living in the basement and doesn't have a job, or it could not even be that.
It could be my son's not interested in earning money. He's an artist, and he lives in an attic and wherever. But is your son happy? I guess those are some of the questions.
But in season one, I interviewed someone named Jane Adams, who was the author of a book called when our adult children disappoint us, how to love them and move on. There was something more to the title. I can't remember it. And she said, some of this is a bit of narcissism.
Can't let go that they're separate from us. So when they're born, we think they're going to graduate first in their class from Harvard, be a CEO, whatever it might be.
And when that doesn't happen, she calls it a narcissistic injury. And she said, get over yourself. You know what I mean? You've got to get over yourself. Don't be the victim all the time.
And one, I think there was two other things I wanted to share with this one.
During pride month, I interviewed Matthew Rodriguez, who's the host of it's okay to ask questions, and this was all about LGBTQ and kids that were transitioning and all of this.
And I said to him, as I think everyone can relate, when you hold that baby in your arms for the first time, a little girl, a little boy, you think, oh, I'm going to walk her. My husband's going to walk her down the aisle, or, I'm going to meet my daughter in law, and we're going to become great friends.
I said to him, if your daughter transitions to a boy or your son transitions to a girl, do you have a minute to mourn those dreams you had when you have them in your arms? And he looked at me straight on and he said, dream bigger.
Wendy Green:Dream bigger. Tell me more about that.
Denise Gliwa:Why do we have to fit into the appropriate dream? Dream that your child becomes whoever they want to become. They're happy with who they are. Let them create their lives for themselves.
It might not be walking your daughter down the aisle. You might be walking your son. Who knows? Dream bigger. Don't put them in a box as soon as they're born.
Wendy Green:Yeah.
Denise Gliwa:They may not be the prima ballerina that you want them to be. Does that make sense?
Wendy Green:Yeah. Yeah. I remember when my sister brought her first baby home with a chapel hill t shirt, and I said. I said, oh, the poor kid has no choice.
Now he's going to Chapel Hill, right?
Denise Gliwa:No, that's exactly. You know, he didn't. Whatever. That's exactly it.
Wendy Green:Well, let's talk about that, though, because you mentioned the word letting go.
Denise Gliwa:Right?
Wendy Green:And so, you know, as a parent, I mean, I still hear this from my mother when she gives me advice. And I say, mom, I'm 71. I don't need your advice. If I do, I'll ask. But she says, but I'm still your mother, and it's hard. Like, at what point?
And how do you think parents need to let go? What does that mean?
Denise Gliwa:Well, first of all, I don't think you'll ever completely let go. That's impossible. Ellen Broughton, doctor Ellen Broughton, who was my first co host when I first started this, and she ended up writing a book.
One thing she stressed in every episode, and I really believe this, building a life for yourself.
If you're dependent completely on your relationship with your adult children and your grandchildren, you're in for some surprises because they have their lives, too. So you want to complement their life. You don't want to hinder their life. So I don't think you completely ever let go.
But if you have a life of your own, you're not as dependent on a call every day making sure they're doing what you want them to do. You know, it's funny, I was at the doctor's recently, and we were talking about my podcast, and I was telling her I have all this anxiety and worry.
And one of the people I interviewed said there's such a correlation between anxiety and worry. Control and worry.
All of a sudden, if you're, you know, when they're little, you have complete control where they're going to go to school, what they're going to wear that day, sometimes, what they're going to eat, sometimes much more, you know, than they're young adults. And when you lose control, it elevates your worry and your anxiety. It's almost like being a good manager.
When you have many people working under you, you have to trust that they're going to make the right decisions because you're not there to read everything they're putting out or go over everything. And that's the same with your adult children.
The only way you can let go is to trust that they're making the right decisions, that you've done your job. And really, that's all you can do, is now be someone they can come to when they need you and a support.
And that's really the only way you can let go, I think.
Wendy Green:So the only way you can let go is if you trust that they are in a place where they can make a their own decisions or I maybe fail in their own decisions, but that's exactly right.
Denise Gliwa:That's exactly right. But you still have to trust that what they're doing is their journey.
When my son said, stay in your lane, I think he did add, it's my journey and it is there. And that's a huge lesson. You know, Susan Engel, I interviewed her. She wrote an article. Well, let's go back to letting go, though.
Remember, the first thing I said is, you'll never completely let go. How can you?
Wendy Green:Right.
Denise Gliwa:And do you want to really completely let go?
Wendy Green:No. Because then that ties into the staying close.
Denise Gliwa:Right. Exactly. Exactly. And, oh, that's what I was going to say when I was at the doctor. And she said to me, she's like a 50 year old doctor.
And she said she doesn't have any children. She said, oh, now I really understand this. My father, who lives in North Carolina, calls me all the time. Did you get home okay?
And she used a curse word, but she said, I'm fucking 57 years old. Yes, I got home okay. You know, and I thought, oh, everyone's going through a bit. Can you completely let go? No.
Can you understand and do our adult children need to do some of the work and understanding? Yes.
Wendy Green:And I had a therapist say to me once, Denise, you know, do you want your children to come and talk to you, or do you want your children to just say, hey, mom, hi? Because if you're busy giving advice and you're busy judging, they're not going to want to come and talk to you.
Denise Gliwa:That's exactly right. I'd love to offer if I can. A few people I talked to gave real tools to use in discussion.
So when you say, do you want them to come and talk to you, or do you want them to say, how's the weather? Oh, it's rainy here today. It's rainy there today. And I have tried some of these and they really, really, really work.
Wendy Green:Okay.
Denise Gliwa:Susan Heitler, who is a relationship therapist, says, avoid being adversarial. The customer's always right, meaning your adult child's always right. Now, don't jump on me. And she said, agree. And this works in every relationship.
So I've tried it on my husband, my friends. This is a wonderful tool. So your child says to you, you know, the divorce really messed me up. You and dad got divorced.
I'm not able to have a healthy relationship. This is just going to harbor in my life. So instead of saying yes, but we tried everything. We did. I don't understand. We put you through counseling.
We do this. You say, I agree, divorce can be really, really hard. And what can I do to be more supportive? Not, but not even, yes, divorce can be really hard.
But we did x, y, and z. Get rid of that. But. And always agree. So I'm tired of you telling me what to do. You're always giving me this advice. Stop giving you advice.
I've got to figure it out on my own. I agree. Or, yeah, it must be really hard getting my advice all the time. And, you know, sometimes it's hard for me to stop.
But if you give me a heads up when you think I'm giving you too much advice, I'd love to, you know, help you with that or whatever. Agree. And. And the whole conversation comes down. It's really interesting.
Wendy Green:Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful.
Denise Gliwa:It's very powerful. So I'm going to read this one because this is from Doctor Fay, Charles Fay. And I love this.
He says, our adult children are responsible for their own lives. They're responsible for their own emotions.
If we play the game in our hearts of blaming ourselves or allowing them to blame us, we're allowing all of that to actually interfere with their ability to grow because our guilt will come out in ways that causes enabling codependent behavior. I mean, isn't that just. It just wakes you up.
Wendy Green:Yeah. Yeah. I think I'll include some of these quotes in the show notes. Yeah.
Denise Gliwa:You've got to listen to the whole episode.
Wendy Green:Well, yeah, right. You got to give me the episode.
Denise Gliwa:It'S in, but, yeah, but also, just always tell me more. Be inquisitive. Don't answer their question immediately. Oh, my gosh. My plumbing's overflowed. What do I do? What do you think you should do?
Wendy Green:Yeah. Yeah. Because that's so respectful, you're saying, look, you know, you're an adult, and I raised you to be able to think.
So go for it, and then we can talk about it.
Denise Gliwa:And also, they feel much better when they've solved it themselves.
Wendy Green:Totally.
Denise Gliwa:So much better when they've solved it themselves.
Wendy Green:Yeah. So I want to switch gears a minute and talk about grandparents.
Denise Gliwa:Oh, this is an easy one.
Wendy Green:So it was so interesting to me. I mean, my grandchildren are all now teenagers. Right.
But it was so interesting to me when they were born and I was so excited, like, yay, grandbabies. Well, it turns out, Denise, that I knew nothing about children and how to raise children and how to hold children and how to talk to children.
And I just kept getting in trouble, like, mom, that's not how we do it. Mom, don't say that. Mom. Oh, my gosh.
Denise Gliwa:Everybody tells me this. Everybody tells me this.
Wendy Green:How do you navigate being the loving grandparent that you want to be without stepping on the toes of your children and their spouses?
Denise Gliwa:So the one episode that I loved was with Julie Dolan. She's a podcaster herself. Satellite sisters was a podcast before podcasting. And she has ten grandchildren, and she's dubbed the Urban Nana.
And so she's written books on Nana ing and, you know, all of this sort of thing. I'm going to tell one funny one because I think it's really great if you're just meeting your grandchildren for the first time.
I laughed out loud at this.
She said, if you're invited to the hospital or the house to meet your grandchild for the first time, make sure your hair looks nice and you have a nice shirt on, because that picture is going to live for eternity. You're always going to be that first picture, meeting the grandchild. Don't come over with your, you know, nightgown on or whatever.
You know, it's going to be a first picture. And I just laughed out loud. And then really, she gave a lot of advice, but she said, the basic bottom line is you are the loving and loyal servant.
You are there to provide unconditional love and support for that grandchild, to always have your grandchild's back and respect how the parents are raising them. Basically, bite your tongue and be the loving and loyal servant. If they say no sweets, no sweets. If they say no bedtime, no bedtime. It's really hard.
And I've seen all my friends go through this, but everyone that it's worked well is when the parent bites their tongue.
And unless the daughter or son in law says, do you have any advice for this other than that this is their journey and this is their parenting now, I said to her at one point, well, how about they're at your house and they're using poor manners? Can you correct them and stuff your house, your rules?
Wendy Green:Good to know, because I have been in trouble for that, too.
Denise Gliwa:Be a little careful. If they really don't want them to have candy, you don't, you know, want candy.
Wendy Green:No, but it was a behavior at a table, and I was finally waiting for them, the parents, to say something, and they weren't. So finally I was like, hey, guys, knock it off.
Denise Gliwa:Yeah. Yeah. Well, were the parents there?
Wendy Green:Yes.
Denise Gliwa:Oh, well, I would probably wait till the parents weren't there when you had.
Wendy Green:Them, but it was happening while the parents were there and they weren't saying anything.
Denise Gliwa:I know she. She talked about this, too. When the kids get up from the table and go on their phones and stuff, what do you do? You know, it's, again, their journey.
It's really hard. It's probably the hardest thing, but I just hold on to that phrase. I'm the loving and loyal servant.
The best thing you can do is develop that relationships with your grandchildren. You have their back. You will love them unconditionally. She did say she sometimes keeps a few little hard candies in her pocket.
So the kids always know when grandma comes, or Nana, as she's called, they can run up and get a candy from her pocket. You know, little things. But I imagine her going in very quietly, doing what they need to have done. And she moved. Her daughter lived in Brooklyn.
She got an Airbnb in Brooklyn and lived right by and came over when they needed her to. And she said, don't try to put the strollers together, don't try to put the back, the car seats in because you won't understand any of it.
But I just hold tight to loving and loyal servant.
Wendy Green:It's so different from when we were growing up, you know, like, we were totally raised to follow the manners and listen to our adults, whoever they were, aunts, uncles, grandparents. So, yeah, it's very different. Why?
Do you have any insights into why things change so much between the adults that were in our lives and now being adults in our children's lives?
Denise Gliwa:Doctor Joshua Coleman, you know him, I think you've interviewed him, too. He said that the old adage of honor, your father and mother is gone. She says it's.
He says it's much more of a protecting your own emotions and self expression. And that also points to some of the estrangement.
Sometimes kids are going to therapy and the therapist might say, it sounds like your mom or your dad or whatever are really a burden for you and hurting your own developmental growth.
And sadly, he said too many of them are suggesting a break and will actually help them write a letter to say, I'm not going to see you for this extended period of time because I'm feeling like my self expression and my, you know, it's a very self oriented sort of community and group now in these young millennials. And, you know, some of it's good because we felt very completely committed to our parents, grandparents.
I mean, I remember I had to go home, visit every single one kiss everyone, hug everyone. And we have raised our children not to have to do that all the time.
If we know one uncle's kind of iffye we've said, you don't have to hug uncle so and so. So every generations come a little bit further, protecting themselves a little bit. And there's some good in it and there's some bad in it.
Wendy Green:So if our children don't have children, right? And we. So one of the avenues to staying close is staying close with the grandbabies, right?
Because you can go and play with them and everything's fine with that. What does it look like to stay close, say, and even like, you know, for you and for me, our kids aren't living right down the street.
Like, how do we stay close?
Denise Gliwa:Well, neither of my children live close. I live in Denver. I've got one in Michigan and one in New York. They used to be in LA and New York.
I sometimes find it's a little easier to stay close when they don't have the grandbabies because the grandbabies take up all of their time and they're going to soccer games and they're going to this and that. But I really try to at least do one gathering a year where we're all together.
We try to plan one or two calls, maybe one a month where we're all together. Texting, I think is really very advantageous because it's easy to say I love you, how are you?
How's your job going without having to interrupt their day? I always send little funny things. I think that they have more time for us when they don't have their own children.
But again, you don't want to be offering advice, stepping on their toes, that sort of thing. But we really try to visit them.
I try not to stay in their home, even though a lot of people say stay in their home, I always felt my in laws and my parents came from different places. And as much as I loved having them there, it was hard having people in your home 24/7 all the time.
So if I can afford it or if I have another friend nearby, I'll stay with my friend and visit them, invite them to dinner and that sort of thing.
And, you know, we haven't talked about siblings, but it's important to me is my relationship with my kids, is my siblings relationships with each other. So I'm happy when the two of them are getting together.
That's almost like I'm there because I feel like they're going to have each other the rest of their lives longer than I'll be around, hopefully. So I think becoming involved in what they're involved. Invite them on a vacation with you. When they don't have kids, they can go.
Wendy Green:They can go. Right, right.
Denise Gliwa:Everyone's ready for a vacation.
Wendy Green:But that's interesting about the siblings. Yeah. Because a lot of times there's all that sibling tension, and I've spent episodes on that. I know. And so you're happy when they get together.
But have you done any shows about parents that only have one child and, you know, the codependency that might develop there?
Denise Gliwa:I really haven't, and I'm not sure that it would be that much different. It's probably just harder on the adult child, if you ask me, and the parent probably has to back off more.
My sister has only one child, and she's the producer of my podcast. She does all the editing. So we talk a lot about this stuff.
And I would say it's just harder on her son, but she goes through a lot of the same things that I go through, you know, my own struggles. I wanted to share this one quote, and I'm going to share it now. It sort of relates, but not really.
We interviewed Susan Engel, who's a professor at Williams University, and wrote an article from the New York Times that was called when they're grown, the real pain begins.
And she said when she brought her son home and her aunt was there and held her son in her arm, she looked at Susan and said, when they're young, they sit on your lap. When they're old, they sit on your heart. And that's the whole, you know, that sums it up right there, that it's such a transition.
You know, it's easy when they're not potty training.
It's easy when they're having struggles to learn to read, but letting go and letting them leave and live their own life, and that's what we've raised them to do.
Wendy Green:That's right.
Denise Gliwa:In one of my mother daughter interviews, Pam, transcendent. I raised my daughters. My goal was to make them independent, confident, scrappy, young, you know, scrappy women. And I did it. And now I'm obsolete.
Wendy Green:And I totally get that. I know. I kept telling myself my responsibility is to raise responsible adults right and let them be those responsible adults. Yeah.
Denise Gliwa:So go ahead. Sorry.
Wendy Green:So I'm curious, like, do you think you were a very good parent before you started the show? And have you learned new things that makes you a better parent?
Denise Gliwa:Oh, I've learned so many new things. That makes me a better parent. We have two episodes on weddings, and my daughter just got married last year.
Without those two episodes, I would never have been the great mother I was to my adult daughter. And I am telling you, my friends were laughing at me. Denise, this isn't you. You're just biting your tongue. You're letting her plan this wedding.
Remember, I worked in New York and Pr. My whole job in life was doing big press conferences and events, and I felt like I could have put this wedding together in 2 seconds.
It took every, every grain of self control out of me to allow this wedding to be hers. And you know what? It was the most beautiful, simple wedding that everyone said to me. So reflected her and her husband.
Wendy Green:And you must have been able to just relax and enjoy it.
Denise Gliwa:I know. I have anxiety all the time. Oh, I would do. My husband would laugh at me. My daughter would have her own list.
I mean, she, she wasn't even, like, sharing a lot of things. I'd say, well, can I at least see that? Then I wouldn't say anything. I have my own list that I would never share with her.
But in order to get all this out of me, I had to do that. Does that make sense? I asked her for one thing. We're greek heritage. And I said, do you think we could do a greek dance?
Do a couple greek dances at the ceremony or at the reception? And she said, I don't know. And her husband to be was on the phone. He said, oh, that sounds like a good idea. Just send us the songs.
I sent a couple songs. I never mentioned it again. Okay. Never mentioned it at the reception. What do you think was the biggest hit?
Wendy Green:The greek dancing.
Denise Gliwa:Every single person was up dancing afterwards and gave me a big hug and said, thanks for this, mom. Have I learned a lot? I have learned so much. Think before you speak. Write something out. If you've got a big issue you want to discuss, practice it.
Don't. Just, you felt so close to them all your life. You feel like you should be able to just call up and say, I don't know why you're taking that job.
You shouldn't be moving to that city. It's the most expensive city in the country. Think about your money. Are you saving money? Are you? Think about how you're going to say that.
Think about how it sounds.
Wendy Green:Take a breath. Oh, my gosh. I mean, just even as you say that, Denise, I can feel the tension coming up in you. The tension coming up in me.
I'm like, okay, so, all right, so we have to walk out of the room for a few moments, take a breath, and then come back with what it is that we want to say in a different tone of voice, a different mindset. Oh my gosh.
Denise Gliwa:Well, that's why Ruth Nemsel, who I interviewed, she wrote a book called don't bite your tongue. And I said, what's this about? And she believes that intimacy does not happen if you just bite your tongue. And she's right.
However, she really talks about thinking through before you speak. So you are biting your tongue before you speak. Do you know what I mean? You don't want to not say it at all? Possibly.
It depends what it is, but think about it beforehand.
Wendy Green:Right?
Denise Gliwa:Does that make sense?
Wendy Green:Yes. And when you're a person like you and me, who is an emotional person.
Denise Gliwa:Exactly.
Wendy Green:It's takes an extra amount of effort. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it takes an extra amount of effort for everybody, but I know it does for me.
Denise Gliwa:Well, you know, when I'm doing these episodes and I'm listening to these therapists and I do a lot of role playing where I'm the kid and the therapist answers me and I listen to them and I think, oh, can I just have your voice and your temperament and your just the way they pause and they speak? And so I work on that. I mean, I'm not working on it now. I'm in this interview. I'm just myself.
My kids notice when I'm working on it and I think they're grateful. But when you ask me that question, have I learned a lot? I'm almost like a different parenthood to my adult children. I understand them more.
I try really hard to understand it's their journey, not feel like it's a reflection of myself, all of that.
Wendy Green:You do a great job at it, Denise, and I love your show, everybody. You can find her podcast at bite your tongue podcast. And you can email Denise and tell her how much you loved what you learned in this episode.
Denise Gliwa:With any questions, we're always looking for listener questions and then I bring on experts to answer them. So if there's something really bugging you that you're trying to deal with or the right way to respond, we'd love listener questions.
So feel free to send listener questions.
Wendy Green:Yeah. So that that email is biteyourtonguepodcastmail.com and I, you know, hey, share, copy me on the email.
So I know that you are asking and talking and sharing because that's what we're all about, this whole community of parents or older adults or whatever, we're all learning. We're all on a journey. So it's just great. Thank you, Denise.
Denise Gliwa:You're welcome. Can I share my couple takeaways? Do I have time?
Wendy Green:Oh, yes. Yes, please.
Denise Gliwa:Okay. Because Charles fay, again, I did love him. I love this. Just listen really carefully, okay?
You can never consistently work harder on someone else's life than they are. If we try to do so, not only do we risk burnout, but our children stop working on their own lives.
And ultimately, our role as parents of adults is to listen, reserve judgment, and focus on our own growth. Let them live their lives, and trust that they'll find their way.
Wendy Green:I love that. Thank you.
Denise Gliwa:And my last one comes from jane. I say, who wrote walking on eggshells? And this is one I have to always think about. Whatever you say, it could be as simple as, your hair looks nice.
Everything they hear from you is coming through a megaphone of judgment. So stop before you speak and think about it. And I think all of us can think back to our own parents.
When your parents said something, it went so deeply in you, like a megaphone of judgment. So remember that, and let's all work together on biting our tongues and building healthy relationships with our adult children.
Wendy Green:Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Check out Denise's podcast. Bite your tongue. I know you will enjoy it. And join the Boomer Banter membership.
Denise Gliwa:Absolutely.
Wendy Green: buymeacoffee.com. hey, Boomer:And before I let you go, let me give you a little idea of who's coming up next week. As you may have figured out, that in October, we're talking about relationships, one of my four pillars of living your best life and aging.
Well, next week, we're talking to doctor Liz Jenkins. And doctor Liz is a licensed marriage and family therapist and a certified connection coach.
As boomers, many of us are in long term relationships, but maybe we have lost some of that special sauce that we felt early in the relationship. Doctor Liz helps couples reconnect, repair, and reignite their love, quickly transforming their relationships or marriages into their early years.
Connection and passion. Ooh, that should be so. Turn your friends onto it. Come and listen. Take your notepads.
The Boomer Banter podcast is produced by me, Wendy Green, and the music comes from purple Planet music. Thanks again, Denise. It was so much fun talking to you again.
Denise Gliwa:Thanks so much for having me, Wendy. And I hope your listeners got something out of it. I really enjoyed being here.
Wendy Green:All right. Talk to you soon.
