Host Maricella Herrera introduces a nurturing, candid conversation with Kvon Tucker, CEO and founder of Consciously, a purpose-driven coaching and consulting firm. They discuss fear, courage, and “spiritual abolitionism,” which Kvon defines as helping people release narratives and conditioning that keep them stuck and move toward liberation. Kvon shares his path from studying psychology and workplace behavior to leadership development roles at Netflix, Amazon, and Google. While at Google, he built a coaching practice during the pandemic and new fatherhood, but fear kept him from leaving his full time role. An internal investigation into his online activity and perceived integrity became a breaking point, and he quit on his daughter’s first birthday, later moving toward Costa Rica. Kvon has a vision of helping leaders escape limiting corporate structures.

About Kvon Tucker:

Kvon Tucker is the CEO and Founder of Consciously, a purpose-driven coaching and consulting firm helping leaders grow with clarity, freedom, and purpose. A Professional Certified Coach (PCC) with nearly 20 years of experience in leadership development, Kvon has coached and developed executives at companies like Netflix, Amazon, Google, Meta, and Tesla. His mission is simple: all I know is how to help people grow.

www.consciously.one

Show Notes:

(00:00) Teaser + Intro

(00:52) Welcome to the Episode

(03:25) Meet Kvon Tucker

(05:17) Childhood Dreams

(07:16) Spiritual Abolitionist

(09:18) Fear and Courage Practice

(12:43) Fearlessness vs Recklessness

(15:44) How He Got Into Tech

(17:06) From Depression to Purpose

(24:46) Netflix Amazon and Ego

(29:29) Google Exit Reflections

(32:39) Coaching Origins And Certification

(34:11) Pandemic Dad And Coaching Boom

(37:05) Fear Of Leaving Corporate

(39:26) Investigation And Breaking Point

(41:37) Quitting And Moving To Costa Rica

(44:41) Support Systems Through Crisis

(48:27) Underground Railroad For Leaders

(51:34) AI And Identity Beyond Work

(55:25) Finding Clarity What Do You Want

(57:00) Advice To Past Self And Closing

am I a bad person for doing what I want to do for living out my dream?

2

Maricella Herrera: Oh,

that's such a mind fuck.

3

Have you ever felt like the script you're

following doesn't quite fit anymore?

4

Then you're in the right place.

5

I'm Maricella Herrera and I started.

6

Shit I just quit my job after walking

away from a job I thought to find me?

7

Forget the highlight reels.

8

Here.

9

We talk about the messy middle, the

doubts, the detours, and the chaos

10

that come with rethinking who we are.

11

Because the truth is, it was

never just about quitting a job.

12

It was about questioning

everything I thought I knew.

13

Hi there.

14

Lovely humans, human just out

there doing the best you can.

15

Um, 'cause I think that's

what we're all doing, right?

16

The best we can.

17

I just finished editing this episode

and I felt like I had to quickly

18

jump in to record the intro, not only

because I really want to release this

19

episode, but because the conversation

was one that really touched me.

20

It was really.

21

I don't know.

22

It was really nurturing.

23

Yeah, nurturing.

24

Nurturing is a good word for

what I'm feeling right now.

25

You know, sometimes you meet people,

and I have not met my guest actually in

26

person, but sometimes you talk to people.

27

and.

28

you kind of feel some sort of kinship.

29

You feel like you've known this

person for a longer time, or

30

that you can see eye to eye,

31

maybe that you've gone through

some stuff that you can understand.

32

And the first time I talked to

Kvon Tucker, who is my guest today.

33

That's kind of how I felt.

34

It was funny because I

remember sitting on my couch

35

and feeling like, yeah,

like this guy gets it.

36

and my partner was working at my

desk and I came in and I was like,

37

I just had a great conversation.

38

And sometimes when you have such a good

conversation at the beginning with someone

39

and then I invite them to the podcast.

40

It doesn't happen very often, but then it

might be a little awkward for some reason.

41

In this case, I don't think it

was, I actually think it was

42

even better.

43

Just deeper, maybe deeper.

44

Maybe it was the same level of depth.

45

It doesn't matter.

46

It was a really good conversation.

47

It was really honest, and I know

I say that, but this one's honest.

48

we both talk about dark

times in our lives.

49

I don't usually talk about it, and I do.

50

I open up to him about it here.

51

we talk about fear and courage and,

52

and I think there's a transparency and a

53

very clear intention.

54

Of helping others or

intention to help others.

55

That comes across everything Kvon says.

56

Kvon Tucker.

57

Is the CEO and founder of

consciously a purpose-driven

58

coaching and consulting firm.

59

He's worked at some of the largest

tech companies or top tech companies

60

like Netflix, Amazon, Google, he's

also developed a coaching practice.

61

To help leaders grow with clarity,

with freedom, with purpose.

62

He's helping people liberate themselves.

63

That's the way he sees it, and,

and I think he might be right.

64

I think you're in for a treat today.

65

I really hope this conversation

resonates and that it gives you a

66

little bit of the joy that it gave me

67

and that you take.

68

Maybe some time today after you listen to

this to ask yourself the one question that

69

we talk about in this, well, actually you

talk about a bunch of questions, but one

70

question that I think is very important.

71

What do you want?

72

What do I want?

73

And to answer honestly, don't censor.

74

What would I do if I

was a little bit braver?

75

I know I keep asking myself that slowly

and surely, I think I'm getting there

76

And I think part of it that is

helping me get there is this podcast

77

is having these conversations, is

being able to meet these wonderful

78

people that I've, that I'm meeting.

79

I hope you're all doing well.

80

Thanks again for listening.

81

I'll see you next time and let's

go to my conversation with Kvon

82

What did you wanna be

when you were growing up?

83

Kvon Tucker: oh.

84

the very first thing I remember

wanting to be was a heart surgeon.

85

I know.

86

I don't remember exactly where I

got the idea from, but some part

87

of me wanted to, like, save lives.

88

Like I really wanted to play a

role in saving people's lives.

89

And that to my 6-year-old brain seemed

like the best way to save lives.

90

funny story is, I think

sometime between six and 12.

91

I was asked to do a research project

on whatever it is that you say

92

you want to do when you grow up.

93

And so I picked heart surgeon and I

realized through that project that if

94

I was going to be a heart surgeon, I

was gonna need to be in school for like

95

another 32 years or something like that.

96

And I was like, I dunno if I

wanna be in school that long.

97

so maybe it's not a heart surgeon.

98

And so from that point on,

I let heart surgeon go.

99

and then started exploring

what else I might wanna be.

100

But that was the very first thing that

I remember, like being pretty clear

101

about wanting to do when I grew up.

102

Maricella Herrera: Can I just say how you

said heart surgeon and clearly my face

103

was like, oh, I wasn't expecting that.

104

But then I think about it and like heart

surgeon, but heart now in a different way

105

and I don't know, there's something there.

106

Kvon Tucker: I think so.

107

You know what?

108

Thank you for that.

109

it's funny because I identify

as like an abolitionist.

110

and in that way I do play

a role in helping people

111

save their own lives, right?

112

Like I support, I'm not

saving anybody's life.

113

I support others to do that for

themselves, to get themselves out of

114

situations that they no longer want

to be in, to liberate themselves.

115

And so, yeah, in that way, and also, the

work that I do is, it's very emotional.

116

I, I do hard work, with all of my clients.

117

And yeah.

118

Yeah.

119

Emotional heart work, for sure.

120

Maricella Herrera: Emotional hard work.

121

Tell me about that term.

122

'cause I remember from when we

talked last time, you also said

123

you were a spiritual abolitionist.

124

So I, I want you to

tell us more about that.

125

Kvon Tucker: it's interesting.

126

the first time I started to

see myself in that way was.

127

After reading Ta Hasi

Coates, the Water Dancer.

128

I don't know if you've read that book.

129

It's, really beautiful.

130

I think it's the only novel

that he's written, at least

131

the only one I'm aware of.

132

And the book is about abolitionists.

133

It's about abolitionists and

it's, it's just really beautiful.

134

But in that, I started to see oh,

what they're doing, the way in which

135

abolitionism takes place in this book.

136

It's like a magical realism book,

the way in which it's happening.

137

drew parallels to the work that

I think I do with my clients.

138

And so I thought, I'm

like, am I an abolitionist?

139

I was like, I'm not

physically moving anybody.

140

And so this idea of spiritual

abolition and came up because I

141

realized that a part of the work

that I do is helping people, let go.

142

Of ideas, perspectives, narratives,

ways of being that no longer serve

143

them and lead and help lead them

towards their own sense of freedom

144

and their own sense of fulfillment,

their own sense of liberation.

145

there, there are all these energies

that people hold onto, or that are,

146

that, that are given to them, that,

that hold people back from creating the

147

lives that they want for themselves.

148

And so I help people see them and help

people release themselves from them.

149

And in that way I, I see myself

as a spiritual abolitionist.

150

Maricella Herrera: I really like that.

151

I had never thought of

the connection there.

152

And it makes sense because you are

helping them liberate themselves

153

from all of this conditioning

and structures and, I don't know,

154

ways of keeping ourselves stuck.

155

Kvon Tucker: Yeah, fear

being the biggest one, right?

156

Fear.

157

Fear being, I think the most effective

tool that keeps people in a state

158

of we'll call it enslavement in,

in a state of incarceration, right?

159

Keeps people stuck.

160

helping people move through fear,

it's just a, it's just energy, right?

161

And it can be something that you

look at as like a, some people treat

162

fear like it's a concrete wall, but

really you can just move through it.

163

And once you realize

that, then you're free.

164

Maricella Herrera: I get it.

165

Like you can see my brain like I

get it, but as someone who gets

166

very stuck with fear a lot, it's.

167

It's hard to bring it from like

here, and I'm pointing to my head

168

for those who are not seeing this

from your head, to actually embodying

169

that feeling and that consciousness

of being able to move forward

170

Kvon Tucker: it's work.

171

It's work and it's practice, right?

172

And, there are all these

different degrees of fear.

173

There are all these different

things that we are scared of.

174

and so if you're a human being, like

you're, you are courageous, like you're

175

doing courageous things every day.

176

And that's just a practice

of moving through fear.

177

It's like we all do it.

178

There are some things that are like

really big in our lives that we're

179

really scared of, and that we end up

thinking that we can't do or can't

180

accomplish because of how big the fear is.

181

The work that I do in my, in my

coaching, and even as a coach, not

182

even as a coach, but even as a CEO, is

tell people, develop like the capacity.

183

So if there's something that you're

really scared of and you can't

184

get beyond it, you're just finding

yourself like having a challenge.

185

What that means is that the fear

is bigger than your courage, right?

186

So all we gotta do is work on

developing your courage and we can

187

develop your courage and we can

get up close to that fear, feel

188

it, oh wow, this is really scary.

189

I don't know if I can move forward

and then explore, okay, what will

190

help you take one small step.

191

And that one small step is

the development of courage.

192

And they say, okay, great.

193

We took that.

194

How are we still okay?

195

We're still alive.

196

Oh yeah, but I'm really uncomfortable.

197

It's okay.

198

Maybe we just stay here for a while.

199

And that's how you develop your capacity.

200

To be with fear and develop your

courage, and then it's okay,

201

we ready to take another step.

202

Great.

203

Let's take another step.

204

Next thing you know, courage is

building and you're moving forward.

205

But we have to.

206

We have to feel it.

207

We have to feel it to be

able to move beyond it.

208

Maricella Herrera: this is such

a semantics thing, but as you're

209

talking, it made me like, it

made it click for me that I hear.

210

Everyone, including myself,

say, let go of fear.

211

But you're saying build your capacity

for courage, your capacity for being,

212

and I think building something,

to me at least, sounds more doable

213

than letting go of something.

214

learning how to let go of

something sounds harder.

215

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

216

Yeah.

217

And there it's work either way, know?

218

Um,

219

Maricella Herrera: but

220

Kvon Tucker: yeah, I,

221

Maricella Herrera: possible somehow.

222

Kvon Tucker: there was a time not that

long ago when I used to think that, like

223

being fearless was like a good thing.

224

I'm no longer convinced, if you're

creating change, if you're growing, if

225

you're doing anything that's gonna make

you uncomfortable, I'm not convinced

226

that fearlessness is a good idea.

227

I think fearlessness can lead

to recklessness and I don't want

228

anybody to be reckless with their

bodies, with their minds, with their

229

spirits, with the people around them.

230

I'm not encouraging recklessness.

231

I want us to be aware that, hey,

like this thing is scary and it's

232

probably scary for a good reason.

233

So let's move forward intentionally.

234

Let's move forward.

235

Courageously and shameless plug,

let's move forward consciously.

236

Maricella Herrera: that's a great word.

237

I love that.

238

That's, your brand because

I, it's such a good

239

word.

240

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

241

I look at it's like creating change.

242

It's like walking through like a river

with some rocks along the way, and

243

only you want to get to the other side.

244

And it's if I get to the other

side, it's gonna be good things for

245

me, but these rocks are slippery.

246

So I'm like, okay, we

gotta get across the river.

247

We want to get across the river.

248

We could go around, but we

wanna get across this river,

249

so we're gonna take steps.

250

But we have to be really

thoughtful about these steps.

251

We have to be careful.

252

And yes, there should be fear because.

253

There's danger here.

254

We fall in, maybe we get swept

up, or maybe we just get wet.

255

Who knows?

256

And that's an important

thing to be considerate.

257

if we fall in, like what's

the worst case scenario?

258

Do we get swept up and then we're gone?

259

Or do we just get a little

wet and which we don't want.

260

And so that's an important

consideration, but one way or another,

261

let's try to stay on the rocks.

262

So we gotta take our steps forward and we

gotta do it consciously and courageously.

263

Maricella Herrera: Yeah,

that makes a lot of sense.

264

What made you change your idea or

change your mind about fearlessness?

265

Was there something or a moment

where you're like, maybe this.

266

Mm-hmm.

267

Kvon Tucker: I don't know

if there was a moment.

268

I mean, there probably was,

but I don't remember it.

269

you hear words like fearlessness, and.

270

Popular media, like that's the way to be.

271

And it's something some years ago,

and I remember this is when I was

272

working at Google, it clicked that

maybe that's possible for some people,

273

but courage is really the practice.

274

if I want to help people develop a

practice, developing a practice of

275

courage, developing their capability,

their capacity around courage to your

276

point is like much more practical.

277

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

278

Kvon Tucker: Is much more practical.

279

Like people can grasp on oh, I can

develop courage, like fearlessness.

280

I don't know if I'll ever get there.

281

but I can become more courageous.

282

And so to me it just seemed

much more practical and helpful.

283

and so I've latched on to leaning

courageously and consciously.

284

Maricella Herrera: I do wanna talk

about your journey itself, because

285

I reached out to you because I saw

a post that really resonated and I

286

was like, I need to talk to that guy.

287

And thank you for responding, by the

288

way.

289

But also it's fascinating.

290

You worked at all of these very

well-known large tech companies.

291

How did you even get into tech?

292

Like going,

293

because I talked to you

and I'm like, like how?

294

Kvon Tucker: how?

295

Short answer, ego, long answer.

296

can I give you the long, long, long story?

297

yeah.

298

I got my bachelor's in psychology,

my master's in industrial

299

organizational psychology.

300

And if you don't know what that

is, it's like psychology of the

301

workplace, human behavior at work.

302

Like the goal of the industry is to

help make work like a better place.

303

so I went through my master's program

and in the master's program I learned

304

about like training and development.

305

I loved learning and undergrad

I'd taken classes and learning

306

was fascinated with learning.

307

I got in my master's and was like,

oh, training and development.

308

Got my first big boy job doing training

and development, and I got into this role.

309

All of a sudden I was no longer like

working with people, talking to people.

310

I was like, crunching numbers.

311

I'm like, this isn't,

this, isn't it for me?

312

Like some something's I've

somehow chosen a wrong path of

313

this is what this work is about.

314

fast forward a few years, I have

been doing this work for I don't know

315

how long, and I'm like depressed.

316

I'm absolutely miserable in

my role, miserable in my life.

317

I become suicidal and decided that I

was finally going to go get some help

318

through the loving nudges of my wife.

319

So I decide to, I get a therapist

start to heal, and through that

320

process, my therapist starts asking me

questions I'd never been asked before.

321

Like things like, what do you want?

322

What do you wanna do with your life?

323

What do you wanna do with your career?

324

Questions?

325

I had never actually been asked

before, so I had to sit and think.

326

And what I realized is that

what was missing in my career.

327

Was this sense of connection to

people, connection to actually

328

real connection to the work.

329

so I started exploring like, what's

gonna gimme this sense of connection?

330

what's gonna give me, this, the

fulfillment that I was hoping that

331

I was gonna get through industrial

organizational psychology.

332

Like really helping work

become a better place.

333

So I started exploring manager

and leadership development

334

and like facilitation.

335

I had no plans on doing that, but I was

like, well, at the very least I can talk

336

to people about what it's like to be

human being in organizations like that.

337

Sounds like that'd be fun.

338

So I did and I started facilitating

and had some great conversations

339

talking about connection between

managers and, the direct reports.

340

And that blossomed into me doing a

couple workshops and then going all the

341

way into like multiple day programs.

342

And I was like, oh, this is amazing work.

343

And realizing that like when

you talk to leaders, you're.

344

You're able to influence them as

leaders and support them to become

345

more effective leaders, which then

makes organizations like much more

346

positive work environments, right?

347

So I'm like, yeah, I'm like making

a difference and I'm having the kind

348

of conversations I want to have.

349

and as I'm learning how to become a

leadership development facilitator,

350

like I'm doing my studies, right?

351

So I'm like reading all the leadership

books, it's like reading Voraciously.

352

if there's a leadership book out

there, I read it or I listened to it.

353

I was in this phase where I

was just consuming so much.

354

I was reading multiple books a

week, listening to multiple books.

355

I was just consuming so much

learning about leadership.

356

And Google was one of those places

that had been known for having created

357

this like very kind of world class

organization and culture and structure.

358

And I just, I held it at this, on this

very, very high pedestal of places

359

I would love to work at one day.

360

so I could learn more about the

culture and like how people do

361

leadership because they were

setting the standard at the time.

362

I had read this book called Work Rules

by Laszlo Bock, and I was like, wow,

363

they're doing some really cool stuff.

364

I'm gonna work there one day.

365

that was my goals.

366

20 14, 20 15.

367

I'm gonna work at Google one day.

368

started sharing my perspectives

on leadership on LinkedIn, and

369

then out of nowhere a recruiter

from Netflix just emails me

370

Maricella Herrera: I was gonna ask if

this was while you were at Netflix,

371

because I literally wrote down the world

class culture, Netflix question mark,

372

because they're also known

373

Kvon Tucker: they're also known for that.

374

And so I'm at Southern California Edison.

375

My bachelor's, master's

from Cal State Long Beach.

376

Like I'm not, there's no fancy

schools here or anything, It just

377

came out of a suicidal depression.

378

And then Netflix hits me up, says, Hey,

do you want to come interview for a job?

379

And I'm like, what me?

380

How'd you find me?

381

Thought it was spam.

382

Told my wife.

383

I saw the email.

384

I'm like, babe, I got an

email from this person.

385

They say they work at

Netflix, should I respond?

386

And she's like, uh, yeah.

387

I'm like, okay.

388

So I respond, turns out to be a real job.

389

I end up getting it.

390

and I took it, not because I

actually had ever really wanted

391

to work at Netflix, though.

392

It's an amazing place.

393

They're also known for their

culture and their leadership.

394

But I looked at it as

a step towards Google.

395

I'm like, okay, I now, I'm in tech.

396

I wasn't in tech before.

397

Now I'm in.

398

I didn't really, it wasn't crazy about

the job, but like I learned a lot.

399

I got to soak up the culture.

400

I got to see their leadership.

401

I got to be in the same room

as Reed Hastings, It is an

402

amazing experience, right?

403

I got to go to all the fancy company

parties, I was like, this is amazing.

404

but I wasn't in love with the place.

405

I wasn't in love with the

work that I was doing.

406

And then while I was starting to get a

little disillusioned by the work that

407

I was doing, Amazon hits me up, right?

408

So now I have Netflix on my resume

and Amazon, now I'm in tech, right?

409

So I'm in the foray.

410

and they offer me a role that

I couldn't say no to know.

411

Pay wasn't great.

412

it was Amazon.

413

I was not a fan of Amazon, but the

opportunity to do the work that

414

I was doing, I was a leadership

development facilitator, like a partner.

415

And I got to travel the world

and facilitate leadership

416

development for leaders, or from

manager all the way up to vp.

417

I got to coach leaders who were

operating at extremely high scale.

418

Like these are things I

just, again, I'm like.

419

Black kid grew up in Anaheim, went to Cal

State Long Beach, I don't know what I'm

420

doing here, but I'm having a great time.

421

it was a great job.

422

It was a, honestly, it was a great

job, life changing experience for me.

423

While I was there, get an

email from a Google recruiter,

424

I'm like, babe, this is it.

425

Maricella Herrera: you made it.

426

Kvon Tucker: This is the job.

427

I gotta get this job.

428

So I end up getting the job.

429

and then, what was that?

430

So it was 2015 when I first got

contacted by Netflix, and then

431

2018 I get contacted by Google.

432

I ended up taking the job.

433

so three year journey and I got,

you know, had my dream come true.

434

And so that's how I got to Google, Yeah, I

know That's a long, that's a long version.

435

But you,

436

you asked for it.

437

You asked for it.

438

Maricella Herrera: I am happy

you gave us that version because

439

there's so much richness in it.

440

Even if you're just telling the story.

441

But I have so many questions.

442

first off, thank you for sharing

about being in a suicidal depression.

443

' cause I don't think

people talk about that.

444

I know how it, what that's like.

445

I've been there.

446

It so it sucks.

447

But if you get through that, you

pretty much can do anything, I

448

Kvon Tucker: Yeah, yeah,

449

Maricella Herrera: so

thanks for sharing that.

450

I think there's a lot more need to share

451

Kvon Tucker: think so too.

452

I was just talking to a client today,

like just before talking to you,

453

and I shared that, I shared that

and they've known this about me.

454

I don't share a lot, but they

know this about my journey

455

and, I see it now as a gift.

456

I see.

457

I see it as a gift in so many ways.

458

Like having, like you talk about hitting

rock And then needing to climb out

459

the climb out makes you really strong.

460

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

461

Kvon Tucker: And it gives you perspective.

462

And so now I chose life and I get to

choose life for the rest of my life.

463

And I developed all these different

capabilities and capacities and

464

perspectives along the journey out.

465

Maricella Herrera: Yeah, I feel that.

466

I feel that I, I think for me a lot of it

too is it makes you so much more attuned.

467

Like I know myself so much more and I.

468

I'm able to check on myself so much

more because you're, I'm always

469

conscious of, I don't ever wanna

go back into such a dark place

470

that it's there in the

471

back of your head

472

Kvon Tucker: Never again.

473

Maricella Herrera: Right?

474

Kvon Tucker: Never again.

475

And that's also how

it's been a gift, right?

476

I was like, I'm just gonna focus on

continuing to climb and get as far

477

away from that place as I possibly can.

478

I'm never going back.

479

I don't, I'm never going back.

480

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

481

I feel you.

482

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

483

Maricella Herrera: So that I wanted to

say, I also wanted to ask about Netflix.

484

You said you didn't like the job,

and I'm curious because you also

485

said when you started going into

leadership, l and d within a company

486

or within an organization, ' cause

you started less connecting with

487

the people and more doing the like.

488

Metrics and number,

was that the same case?

489

Was that what

490

you were missing?

491

Kvon Tucker: that was

what I was hired to do.

492

I knew that and shout out to my manager.

493

At the time, she didn't know that I

hated the work that I was hired to do.

494

I took the job because it

was a foot in the door.

495

Maricella Herrera: yeah.

496

Kvon Tucker: I did my best.

497

Yeah, I had a plan.

498

I had a vision.

499

Maricella Herrera: a vision.

500

That's a

501

Kvon Tucker: had,

502

I had a vision.

503

I was like, look, I'm gonna take this job.

504

I can do it, but my heart's not in it.

505

I knew that going in, I did my best.

506

My manager knew that

my heart wasn't in it.

507

Probably six to 12 months after

me being there, she's like, Hmm,

508

you seem to want to talk about

manager and leadership development.

509

You really light up when you do

this kind of stuff, but like,

510

I need you to do your job.

511

I'm like, ah, okay.

512

I'll keep trying.

513

I'll keep trying.

514

And then fortunately, Amazon gave

me an out where I could actually

515

do work that I really want to do.

516

Now, the environment

was less ideal, right?

517

It was not crazy about the work

environment at Amazon, but the work

518

itself, chef's kiss chef's, kiss.

519

Maricella Herrera: I wrote down that

you said I couldn't say no to it.

520

Like it that was, I think you said about

Amazon and it's really interesting to

521

me because sometimes we go into things

to thinking, I couldn't say no to this

522

because it was such a, I don't know,

shiny thing that I thought I wanted.

523

And in your case, in Amazon, it worked

out like it was something you wanted to do

524

and you were happy about it.

525

But I don't know, it made

me think like, when is that?

526

Really us.

527

And when is that?

528

Because of

529

how it looks or

530

because of the ego

531

Kvon Tucker: yeah, you asked me

how I got into Tech Ego, right?

532

Ego was a part of this whole thing.

533

Like the getting to Google was

part purpose, part ego, right?

534

So I just wanted to work for this

company that was known for being great.

535

And it meant something to me.

536

if I'm working at Google or even Amazon

or Netflix, like I'm working with the best

537

and the brightest in the world, right?

538

And like I wanted to be a part of that.

539

My ego wanted to be a part of that, right?

540

yeah.

541

And so I took the job at Amazon knowing

full well that like Amazon was a

542

problematic place when I started there,

since become a more problematic place.

543

but it was a problematic

place when I started there.

544

I supported AWS, which was like the

fastest growing business, like ever,

545

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

546

Kvon Tucker: like

growing like weed, right?

547

but I had a choice, right?

548

I'm at Netflix.

549

I'm doing work that I don't want to do.

550

My manager's aware of it and I'm in this

environment that I love, like I actually

551

really enjoy the culture at Netflix.

552

But then I have this opportunity at Amazon

where it would be doing work that I'm

553

really excited to do and in an environment

that's like kind of questionable, but at

554

a scale that was actually very exciting.

555

I was like, man, it's

like it's a huge company.

556

I'd be able to connect with

so many different leaders.

557

Like I'm gonna be in the room facilitating

with like hundreds of leaders.

558

If I take this job, I'm gonna be able

to travel the world if I take this job.

559

So I could stay in Los Gatos,

California with my manager, like

560

on my ass, or I could go see what's

possible up in Seattle, Washington,

561

which I had never been to before

in this very expansive role.

562

Doing work.

563

That sounds super exciting.

564

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

565

Kvon Tucker: So I took that

566

Maricella Herrera: You can't say no.

567

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

568

It's like after going back and after

going back and forth with my wife again.

569

So my wife is a huge, like, reason

why I would've said no to Netflix

570

and Amazon if it weren't for my wife.

571

And she's like, no, you're taking

572

Maricella Herrera: for her.

573

Kvon Tucker: She, you're taking,

574

Maricella Herrera: for you

575

Kvon Tucker: yeah, it's good for us all.

576

our marriage is good for us all.

577

yeah, I would've said no to both

because it was like such huge change.

578

And I was so scared, but she was like,

no, you're gonna take the job at Netflix.

579

I'm like, okay.

580

She's you're gonna take the job at Amazon.

581

I wanna see what Seattle's like.

582

I'm okay.

583

Okay, let's go.

584

and then when Google came, it

was a no brainer for us both.

585

Maricella Herrera: Of course.

586

Yeah.

587

Kvon Tucker: this is what

all the work has been for.

588

but it was great.

589

It was a great opportunity.

590

18 months at Netflix or 18 months at

Amazon was more than enough for me.

591

I had my fill.

592

Maricella Herrera: And tell me about

Google, because I know this was your

593

vision, this was where you wanted to go,

594

but from what I know from your

story, didn't end up that great.

595

Kvon Tucker: the ending was a

little, the ending was a little sour,

596

didn't end the way I wanted it to.

597

I don't know.

598

You don't, you never really have, I

don't know how many people have, like,

599

ideal exits from any company, you know?

600

Um.

601

Maricella Herrera: know, I've been

thinking about that because I was

602

listening to some podcast and they

were saying how the last, it's always

603

the impression you take from something

is like the ending and that's kind

604

of sad in a lot of ways because a

lot of the endings aren't great.

605

Like they're not.

606

Normally great.

607

Kvon Tucker: No, not normally, right?

608

somebody's gonna be hurt

you end some anything.

609

Somebody's likely gonna

have some unsavory feelings.

610

you know, the role that I

had at Google was amazing.

611

I, while I worked there, I genuinely

like, loved working there for

612

the vast majority of the time.

613

the people at Google to me are just

some of the, some of my favorite

614

people I've ever worked with.

615

They're just beautiful, open-hearted.

616

I supported the recruiting organization,

I was head of managing leadership

617

development for Google's recruiting

organization and working with

618

recruiters, like, recruiters are

like people, people, this was like

619

my first time in my career where my

primary client were people, people.

620

that was a beautiful experience.

621

They just want to talk and connect and

they wanna be great managers of people.

622

And I'm like, great.

623

'cause that's my job.

624

And so there was just a lot of alignment

between me and the group of leaders that

625

I was there to support or the group of

managers that I was there to support.

626

And then, I got to connect with

all these other amazing leaders who

627

worked in manager and leadership

development across the organization.

628

Like the thing that was ended up being

true about Google, at least while

629

I was there, is that Google does a

really good job at hiring great people.

630

like nobody's perfect, there's a

healthy amount of hyper achievem

631

perfectionism, there lots of saboteurs,

but that's 'cause people are people.

632

But I think Google hires

really well intentioned people.

633

And so for that, like I had a great

experience like the work there.

634

I loved what I was doing

there, supporting the managers.

635

It just, again.

636

Lots of alignment.

637

it was the exit and how I ended

up exiting that was, far less

638

than how I wanted to go out.

639

But overall, I loved working at Google.

640

Maricella Herrera: Tell

me about that exit.

641

actually I know this, that while you were

at Google you were also coaching though,

642

Kvon Tucker: yeah,

643

Maricella Herrera: it seems like

you had a full, full-time job.

644

like

645

a lot.

646

Kvon Tucker: yeah, yeah,

647

Maricella Herrera: Plus you were

building this practice and I've been

648

reading a lot on Substack and talking

to a lot of people that I feel.

649

Lately, and I don't know if it's the

state of the world or what it is, there

650

are a lot of people that are tired of

the corporate structures, but are like,

651

I'm doing my job, but I also at the same

time, I'm trying to do this other thing.

652

That's what I would really like to do.

653

So wanna hear your experience

with it and how it was for you?

654

Kvon Tucker: So I'll share, I'll

take a couple steps back if I may.

655

'cause my coaching journey started

back in like my very, very first job.

656

And one of the people who helped me, learn

how to facilitate leadership development

657

got me to go to coaching training.

658

That was way back in 2015.

659

Went to coaching training, was

like, oh, this is my future, right?

660

So that was also a part of

my vision was I'm gonna make

661

coaching a larger part of my life.

662

I don't know how, I don't know

when, but like it's gonna happen.

663

So from 2015, all the way to Google, I was

building my practice when I got to Google,

664

Google has this amazing benefit where

they like reimburse you for thousands

665

of dollars of personal development,

personal professional development.

666

So I was like, well, now I can

get this coaching certification

667

and have like 70% of it paid for.

668

So yeah, I'm gonna do it.

669

So I got certified.

670

I started it in 2019.

671

I finished it in 2020, two

months after, shut down.

672

so now I am a certified coach.

673

I have a couple clients

and I'm working from home.

674

I've got no one looking over my shoulder,

so I start to build my practice.

675

and so I was able to kind of just

shave some time during the day.

676

I want to be honest, I tried to

keep most of my coaching hours, like

677

after Google, and I could do that.

678

I could do that.

679

I didn't have a lot of clients,

so I would take most of my clients

680

like at 4 30, 5 o'clock, five 30.

681

and I did that for a almost a

year, before my daughter was born.

682

So my daughter was born March 5th, 2021.

683

So we're like a full year

into pandemic and quarantine.

684

and I had made a.

685

Maricella Herrera: time, sorry.

686

Kvon Tucker: It was a wild time.

687

It was a lot happening.

688

It was a lot happening.

689

I told myself that by the time I

became a father, I was no longer

690

going to be a full-time employee.

691

And my wife and I had these conversations.

692

She was already like doing her thing

as a psychotherapist and working

693

part-time, making really good money.

694

And I was like, man, that looks great.

695

I want that.

696

Like I got this full-time job,

but now I have a daughter.

697

Fortunately I'm on paternity leave, so I

don't have to go to work every day, but I

698

don't know how am I going to get through

this period where I have paternity leave

699

and then my daughter is still a baby.

700

Like, how am I gonna make this happen?

701

and so that was March.

702

She was born, I wanna say three to four

months after that, while I'm still on

703

paternity leave, I had a large opportunity

come to consciously come to me.

704

To support 20 directors

and VPs at a startup.

705

I had 13 clients, like half of them

were at Google, so it's like not

706

really getting paid extra for them.

707

And then half of them were external.

708

It was just really kind

of starting my career.

709

13 clients, good practice, but it

wasn't making me a lot of money.

710

I had 33 clients overnight.

711

I went from 13 to 33 overnight.

712

And then the income more than tripled.

713

So now I'm making good money.

714

I'm on paternity leave and

I'm coaching all the time.

715

two months after that, like roughly

two months after that, I had another

716

corporate contract land in my lap,

which was like an additional 12 leaders.

717

I couldn't coach 50 people

even if I wanted to.

718

So I started calling some friends, Hey,

I was like, I got this opportunity.

719

You wanna come coach

these leaders with me?

720

This is all, while I'm still on

paternity leave, I'm doing this and

721

I'm stretching my paternity leave.

722

I'm using all the opportunities I have.

723

Fortunately, Google is very

generous with their benefits.

724

They had this thing called carers

leave, which is like, if you need

725

to take care of people, someone

like you can take more time.

726

I need to take care of my daughter.

727

So I'm gonna call on carers leave.

728

So I'm coaching part-time.

729

I'm a full-time dad.

730

Full-time, full-time

coach, developing CEO.

731

have a coach at the time, at some

point towards the end of the year.

732

I basically run out of options to

stall my return back to Google.

733

I was literally like unpaid time off.

734

Like I didn't need to make money

'cause I was making more as a

735

coach then I was making a Google,

I'll just take unpaid time off.

736

And then eventually, like they had

a new manager come in, new managers

737

like, Kvon, you gotta come back.

738

I'm like, all right, I'll come back.

739

Talk to Mike.

740

Yeah,

741

Maricella Herrera: Can I ask

before we jump into that, what

742

do you think was stopping you?

743

Like knowing that you had that financial

744

freedom?

745

like you were making more money, you

were doing the thing you loved, and I

746

don't know if your vision was always

to eventually quit and do this full

747

time or if by that point you still

like, why hadn't you embraced it?

748

Kvon Tucker: yeah.

749

imagine, the answer's fear.

750

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

751

Kvon Tucker: The answer's fear.

752

Maricella Herrera: To that.

753

Kvon Tucker: Yeah, the answer is fear.

754

It's like this is from March, brand new

baby, middle of pandemic to December.

755

This is a nine month timeframe.

756

All this has happened.

757

I became a father and I

became a full-time coach.

758

This is all very new as I reflect.

759

I didn't trust it.

760

It was all new.

761

I didn't trust myself.

762

I didn't trust that this

thing was gonna work out.

763

it was all brand new.

764

It was like, I got all these clients.

765

Maybe they disappear tomorrow.

766

I don't, I don't know.

767

the likelihood of them disappearing

now I realize is very, very low.

768

Like, all your clients will

not disappear overnight.

769

but I didn't know that at the time.

770

but it was so new.

771

It was so new.

772

I didn't trust it.

773

And so I went through this back and

forth with my coach and my therapist.

774

My coach was like, Kvon,

you're gonna go back.

775

They're asking you to come back.

776

And I'm like, I guess I gotta go back.

777

He's like.

778

How are you gonna do your job?

779

I'm like, I don't know.

780

I'm gonna try to move some people around,

try to move them to the end of my days.

781

But I still had 20, no,

like 30 or 40 clients.

782

That's like 20 hours of

work between It was a lot.

783

It was a lot.

784

So I let go of some clients, I

go back, I do my best to do my

785

job and show up to meetings that

I'm being asked to show up to.

786

But I don't do a great job.

787

I just couldn't.

788

I'm remote.

789

I was already looking and exploring,

thinking about moving to Costa Rica.

790

My, my wife and I were already

kind of like on our way out.

791

'cause we could see that this, this

could be the end of my time at Google,

792

but we hadn't made the decision yet.

793

and it was when I was actually in Costa

Rica, I, well actually I take that back.

794

It was before we had taken a trip.

795

Before we had taken a trip,

we were going to Costa Rica to

796

explore moving here full time.

797

And right before we were gonna

take this trip, I got an email.

798

I got an email from some person I

never met that basically said, Hey,

799

we have seen some activity of yours

online and we have some questions,

800

Maricella Herrera: at Google.

801

Kvon Tucker: someone on Google.

802

So next thing you know,

I'm under investigation.

803

And this is, this was the beginning

of the end, like the clear end for me

804

because I'm someone who had dedicated

my whole professional career, my life

805

to serving others, to supporting people,

to do whatever it is that they want to

806

do, to live their lives, to become the

leaders, make positive impact at work.

807

And now my integrity is being questioned.

808

I didn't go back to that place where

809

very, very, very challenging time for me.

810

It's like it had me questioning

myself and questioning my morals

811

and questioning my values.

812

Like, am I a bad person for doing what

I want to do for living out my dream?

813

Maricella Herrera: Oh,

that's such a mind fuck.

814

Like knowing you are, you know

that you're not doing anything.

815

That's against your integrity and

your morals, but having someone like,

816

say something that makes you even

question it, it, it's such a mind.

817

Fuck,

818

Kvon Tucker: it was tough.

819

It was, you know, I'm doing what I

believe is best for myself, for my family.

820

And the reality is this

is a hindsight, right?

821

The system didn't like that.

822

Maricella Herrera: of

823

Kvon Tucker: The system didn't

want me doing what's best for me.

824

The system wants me doing what

they think is best for the company.

825

' cause that's what they care about, right?

826

That's the entity they care about.

827

they don't care about Kvon,

they don't care about Kvon's

828

dreams or wants and wishes.

829

They care about optimizing their

investment in the work that I was doing.

830

So, like, I kind of understand

the investigation at this point,

831

but it still felt terrible and

it still threw me for a loop.

832

I went back and forth and back and

forth with my wife, with my therapist,

833

with my coach, like what's happening?

834

I multiple breakdowns and

breakthroughs throughout that process.

835

And then it was sometime around,

after we had come back from Costa

836

Rica, we were pretty clear that

we wanted to move to Costa Rica.

837

And so I'm like, okay, we're

gonna move to Costa Rica.

838

Jobs gotta go.

839

I don't need it financially.

840

I'm gonna have to trust.

841

That my clients aren't gonna

all leave me overnight.

842

and that if some of them do that I can get

new clients and I can build this business.

843

And so, I chose to quit my full-time

job on my daughter's first birthday.

844

So that's what I did.

845

And so I did my best to keep my

promise to not be a full-time

846

dad and a full-time employee.

847

Maricella Herrera: Hmm.

848

You did.

849

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

850

Maricella Herrera: Oh, I

have so many questions.

851

where do I wanna start?

852

First off, I do wanna say I get the fear.

853

I asked you why, knowing you are

financially secure, why you don't leave.

854

And of course the answer is fear.

855

Like I asked you, but when

you said it, I'm like, yeah.

856

Of of course, because I kept

forgetting also the timing, like you

857

were a new dad in a global pandemic.

858

Kvon Tucker: Yeah,

859

yeah,

860

Maricella Herrera: Like, it just,

it's a, I don't know all the things

861

Kvon Tucker: yeah.

862

Maricella Herrera: moment.

863

Kvon Tucker: yeah, it

is funny you say that.

864

'cause yeah, I'm, what I've realized

is that all these moves that we

865

made, my wife and I feel like it was

preparation for this change, right?

866

It's like we, we built the muscle around,

like letting go of our old selves and

867

old lives and re releasing expectations

of others and how they show up and

868

releasing expectations that we had of

ourselves for what we do for other people.

869

we started our own practice

of developing our liberation,

870

Maricella Herrera: Hmm.

871

Kvon Tucker: And it

took one move at a time.

872

First it was Netflix and then it was

Amazon, and then it was Google, and

873

then finally it was like Costa Rica

874

Maricella Herrera: as you're saying that

it makes sense, but also when we were

875

talking about your moves from Netflix

to Amazon to Google, that always,

876

the way I was seeing it was very much

all in service to getting to Google.

877

But now that you, in hindsight see the

whole story, like it makes sense, right?

878

We're making these changes to be, become

hopefully more of who we really are,

879

if that makes sense.

880

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

881

Like I, you know, we're here now.

882

I don't know if this is, I highly doubt

this is like the end of the road, right?

883

This is where we're here now,

and we're here for reasons.

884

but there's likely gonna be

some other part of our journey.

885

and then it'll make Costa Rica

make more sense, you know?

886

it's a, it's all a

great, a great unfolding.

887

but yeah, it's a, it's wild to think.

888

that despite being a new dad, being

a relatively new coach, new CEO, that

889

we still made the change that was big

fear, that we moved through big fear.

890

And in that, there's big

liberation on the other end.

891

Maricella Herrera: Hmm.

892

That's very beautiful.

893

How were you able to get through?

894

You know, I said, what a mind

fuck, but really I feel like when

895

you're going through something as

intense, you were being investigated.

896

Like it, like I even see

it in my own experience.

897

When I left my job, I was told many

things about myself that I didn't think

898

were true, but that I, negative things

that I didn't think were true, but

899

that because I was being told that I

started to, I don't wanna say embrace

900

it because that sounds positive.

901

No.

902

But like they started to really sink

in and I started to absorb them.

903

And to this day I still have.

904

Not been fully able to let go.

905

and I've just noticed that a few weeks

ago as I was thinking of some things,

906

and what I'm doing and what I wanna do,

and it's like there's this still part

907

of me that believes that narrative.

908

Kvon Tucker: Hmm.

909

Maricella Herrera: So I'm

wondering how you got to not to

910

be able to leave that behind,

911

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

912

Yeah.

913

thank you for sharing that.

914

That's, it's a very real experience.

915

the short answer I'll give

you, is having amazing support.

916

Like I had a coach at the time.

917

Throughout all of this, I've had the

same therapist for, what year is it?

918

Like 14 years, which is wild.

919

It's like wild, as I

920

Maricella Herrera: It's crazy.

921

Kvon Tucker: maybe 13 years.

922

13 years.

923

I have my wife and my wife is, she

is so stubbornly supportive of me.

924

anyone who looks at me

sideways, my, my wife is ready

925

to like, bite their head off.

926

Like she, she's my little pit bull, uh

927

Maricella Herrera: she

was from El Salvador?

928

Kvon Tucker: she's El Salvadorian.

929

Yeah, she's Salvadorian.

930

Maricella Herrera: That's

931

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

932

And,

933

Maricella Herrera: we're a special breed.

934

Kvon Tucker: and she's an Aries.

935

yeah, she's everything.

936

She's everything.

937

and she's also a psychotherapist, so

she can I'm gonna use my language.

938

Like she can see through the

bullshit better than I can.

939

So she sees people giving me

narratives and she's like, no, no, no.

940

Fuck that.

941

That's not you.

942

You're a good person.

943

You mean well, you're well intentioned.

944

I needed that

945

because I have this part of

myself, the same part of me that

946

got me into suicidal depression.

947

That can be really mean to myself.

948

And then when you have other people being

mean to you, that part of you wants to

949

latch on, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

950

Gimme more, gimme more

of that nasty negativity.

951

'cause I like that, that makes

that part of me feel good.

952

Right.

953

but my wife, my therapist, my

coach all helped keep me from

954

ever going back to that place.

955

But it was really tough.

956

And with all the support and with all

the capacity that I had built and all the

957

work that I had done all the years, that

investigation really threw me for a loop.

958

it was a very tough time.

959

But my support, I, I'd say, long story

short, that's what helped me keep my, keep

960

my head above water and stay afloat to, to

be able to make the choices that I made.

961

Maricella Herrera: yeah.

962

It's massively important.

963

I, I.

964

Everyone should have a

therapist, at least one,

965

Kvon Tucker: Yeah,

966

Maricella Herrera: not

a therapist, a coach, at

967

Kvon Tucker: I think both.

968

I think every, I think if you are trying

to make big change in your life, both,

969

Maricella Herrera: yeah,

970

Kvon Tucker: both at all times,

and if you're done making change,

971

then yeah, maybe you let go.

972

But if you're trying to do something

big, move to a new country, quit your

973

job, or both, or become a parent,

anything that's like transformational.

974

Both coach and therapists, I think

are, I don't wanna say required,

975

but just really wise investments.

976

Maricella Herrera: when we talked

last time, You said a phrase

977

that really it stuck with me.

978

You said you would like to see this thing,

what you're building as an underground

979

railroad for corporate leaders.

980

And I was like, that is so on brand on

the spiritual abolitionist, by the way.

981

But also it makes sense in the sense that

people are, I think there's a movement

982

from people changing from what, or at

least being tired of this bullshit because

983

there's no other way of calling it.

984

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

985

Yeah.

986

man, I'm just like, we talked a while ago.

987

I forgot all that I shared

in that conversation.

988

Maricella Herrera: Yeah, I

put, pulled out my notes.

989

I

990

Kvon Tucker: I love it.

991

I love it.

992

yes.

993

I.

994

I have had this, again, along these

lines of being a spiritual abolitionist.

995

I have this idea for offerings

for that come through consciously

996

that support people to get

to where they want to get to.

997

it's not, it is more about like where

you are moving towards less, less

998

about what you're moving away from.

999

As I've been on this journey for myself,

I'm realizing that like work gives

00:49:38,865 --> 00:49:45,625

meaning and purpose, but it doesn't

give all meaning and all purpose and

00:49:45,805 --> 00:49:49,555

full-time work, especially when you

work in environments like I worked in.

00:49:50,125 --> 00:49:51,505

They are so demanding.

00:49:52,315 --> 00:49:58,675

They require so much time and

energy that it, it makes it really

00:49:58,675 --> 00:50:02,190

difficult for you to express and

honor other parts of yourself.

00:50:03,415 --> 00:50:08,365

it makes it difficult for human leaders

to be great parents, and which to me is

00:50:08,365 --> 00:50:12,845

the most important leadership role you're

ever given, and so what I want to do is

00:50:12,845 --> 00:50:18,180

support people to become who they want

to become and express their purpose in

00:50:18,180 --> 00:50:23,640

all the ways that like, bring them joy

and have the time and energy to do so.

00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:28,500

And so when I talk about the

Underground Railroad, like the program

00:50:28,890 --> 00:50:31,590

is in my mind, I've had this, it's

probably not gonna be called this,

00:50:31,590 --> 00:50:35,610

but maybe it will be, but it's, the

program's called Harriet in my mind,

00:50:36,300 --> 00:50:36,330

Maricella Herrera: Aw.

00:50:36,670 --> 00:50:39,640

Kvon Tucker: the program is will be,

and it doesn't exist yet, but it will

00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,770

be in service to that work, right?

00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,960

Which is to support people to get to

their sense of liberation, whatever

00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,100

that looks like and feels like.

00:50:48,100 --> 00:50:51,960

That's, that is, what I want to

be able to bring to the world.

00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:53,565

Because to your point, I think people are.

00:50:54,525 --> 00:50:58,275

Mass amounts of people are waking

up and like the same wake up that

00:50:58,275 --> 00:51:01,935

I had back in 20 13, 20 14, 20 15.

00:51:02,265 --> 00:51:06,495

A lot of people are having now realizing

that they're in a place where like they're

00:51:06,495 --> 00:51:10,545

miserable and that the environment that

they're in is like not supportive of

00:51:10,545 --> 00:51:12,795

them being who they're meant to be.

00:51:13,365 --> 00:51:15,255

And it is making it really difficult.

00:51:15,255 --> 00:51:19,125

It's not stopping them, but it's

making it difficult for them to

00:51:19,125 --> 00:51:23,265

walk that journey towards their, the

future that they want for themselves.

00:51:23,715 --> 00:51:27,530

And so consciously will play a

major role in supporting hundreds,

00:51:27,530 --> 00:51:31,000

hopefully thousands, maybe even

millions of people to walk that

00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,030

path towards their liberation.

00:51:32,675 --> 00:51:34,035

Maricella Herrera: Yeah, I like that.

00:51:34,635 --> 00:51:39,165

I feel like the world is

moving so fast in so many ways.

00:51:39,195 --> 00:51:41,175

I was reading an article today on AI and.

00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:46,720

What's coming and it, it, it just

kind of freaked me out because

00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:51,980

it's, I know this, but again, it's

What does that mean for all of us?

00:51:51,980 --> 00:51:57,900

what does it mean both in what you

said, we do get work, meaning from

00:51:57,900 --> 00:52:04,900

work, so what does it mean when just

the way work, what we do, even the

00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:09,760

things that we do may not exist anymore.

00:52:09,925 --> 00:52:10,375

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

00:52:11,005 --> 00:52:11,185

Yeah.

00:52:12,185 --> 00:52:12,605

Yeah.

00:52:12,695 --> 00:52:13,595

I think about that.

00:52:13,655 --> 00:52:14,765

I think about that a lot.

00:52:14,945 --> 00:52:15,275

okay.

00:52:15,275 --> 00:52:16,425

To go a little dark.

00:52:17,085 --> 00:52:17,115

Oh.

00:52:17,255 --> 00:52:17,545

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

00:52:18,545 --> 00:52:22,415

Kvon Tucker: I, that is probably

the biggest concern that I have.

00:52:23,585 --> 00:52:31,155

when work is taken away, if

work is all that you are, or it

00:52:31,155 --> 00:52:32,925

is all that you think you are,

00:52:32,970 --> 00:52:33,600

Maricella Herrera: Mm.

00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:34,590

Good distinction.

00:52:35,745 --> 00:52:40,215

Kvon Tucker: Then when it's taken

away, you will lose your sense of self.

00:52:41,215 --> 00:52:42,775

And so that's gonna happen.

00:52:42,835 --> 00:52:47,425

It's happening and it's gonna

happen to many more people in

00:52:47,425 --> 00:52:49,435

the relatively near future.

00:52:50,515 --> 00:52:52,125

And that scares me.

00:52:52,125 --> 00:52:57,145

That concerns me because I've been

to that place, I've been to that

00:52:57,145 --> 00:52:58,735

place, and it's a tough place to be.

00:52:59,305 --> 00:53:01,985

And some people will make it

through and some people won't.

00:53:02,615 --> 00:53:04,305

And that breaks my heart to know that.

00:53:04,785 --> 00:53:06,615

And I'm like, okay, what can I do?

00:53:07,555 --> 00:53:08,845

what can I do to support?

00:53:08,845 --> 00:53:09,985

And that's to me like what?

00:53:10,510 --> 00:53:14,410

What I'm here to do, like what

this work is to help people realize

00:53:14,410 --> 00:53:15,580

that they're more than work.

00:53:16,020 --> 00:53:19,080

You are not your job, right?

00:53:19,140 --> 00:53:23,400

Like you are so much more

expansive than your nine to five.

00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:28,260

Your nine to five is just something that

you did, that you spent a lot of time

00:53:28,260 --> 00:53:31,470

on, and maybe brought you a little bit

of meaning and a little bit of purpose

00:53:31,470 --> 00:53:33,570

or fulfillment, but it's not everything.

00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:40,540

And helping people see as many dimensions

of themselves as they're willing

00:53:40,540 --> 00:53:43,360

to look at and explore them, right?

00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,700

Explore okay, let me spend some time

on this and let me dabble here and then

00:53:46,750 --> 00:53:50,860

maybe I can figure out a way to make

some money doing the things that I really

00:53:50,860 --> 00:53:55,510

like to do versus the things that like I

feel like I'm supposed to be doing right.

00:53:55,510 --> 00:54:00,640

And to me, that's actually

really exciting and inspiring.

00:54:01,225 --> 00:54:05,215

Because we have all these tools

available to us now that we didn't

00:54:05,215 --> 00:54:06,835

have available to us before.

00:54:07,405 --> 00:54:11,965

' cause like building and creating

can be so much more rapid,

00:54:12,385 --> 00:54:12,805

Maricella Herrera: Mm-hmm.

00:54:13,045 --> 00:54:13,285

Kvon Tucker: right?

00:54:13,315 --> 00:54:17,335

All we gotta do is get clear on like

where we want to explore and where we

00:54:17,335 --> 00:54:21,455

want to go, and then we have all these

tools to help us get there, so that's,

00:54:21,565 --> 00:54:23,480

it's, there's two sides to this coin.

00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,570

but I'm focused on helping people

like through it, knowing that there's

00:54:28,570 --> 00:54:29,710

gonna be, it's gonna be a tough time.

00:54:29,710 --> 00:54:30,790

It's a tough time for many.

00:54:31,540 --> 00:54:35,170

And if you're doing the work, I

think there's a much, much brighter

00:54:35,170 --> 00:54:37,120

side for many people in the future.

00:54:37,810 --> 00:54:41,950

But we're gonna, we're gonna

have to go through that dip just

00:54:41,950 --> 00:54:43,030

like you and I have been through

00:54:43,435 --> 00:54:43,705

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

00:54:44,815 --> 00:54:45,565

I hope so.

00:54:46,075 --> 00:54:51,665

Getting clear is hard, like getting

clear is just, it's very hard.

00:54:52,295 --> 00:54:52,970

Kvon Tucker: his work.

00:54:53,180 --> 00:54:54,710

It is work and it doesn't happen.

00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:00,380

Overnight, And even if you get clear,

like I did, I was like, I knew what I

00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:10,280

I had everything I wanted and I was

00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,610

still terrified to make the choice.

00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:15,200

like that's how hard it can be.

00:55:15,890 --> 00:55:18,730

so it's this is, I don't, I try

my best not to like paint a super

00:55:18,730 --> 00:55:20,800

rosy picture for these journeys.

00:55:20,890 --> 00:55:23,800

This is hard stuff and this is

why most people don't do it.

00:55:24,490 --> 00:55:25,180

'cause it's hard

00:55:25,595 --> 00:55:30,105

Maricella Herrera: you said right now

you had very clear in your mind, you had

00:55:30,105 --> 00:55:35,085

you had never, I think you said this, you

00:55:35,085 --> 00:55:37,125

had never been asked, what do you want?

00:55:37,845 --> 00:55:41,025

And I wonder if that's the first

thing, like what is the first thing we

00:55:41,025 --> 00:55:43,095

should do if we wanna get that clarity?

00:55:43,305 --> 00:55:43,755

And

00:55:44,655 --> 00:55:47,025

maybe it is just asking

yourself, what do you want?

00:55:47,085 --> 00:55:49,755

And answering it without censoring.

00:55:49,755 --> 00:55:54,135

Because I do think we, we might ask

our, I ask myself that all the time,

00:55:54,735 --> 00:55:59,805

but then immediately start listing all

the reasons why it might be unrealistic

00:55:59,805 --> 00:56:04,265

or all the other things, which is, so

as I'm like making sense of this as

00:56:04,265 --> 00:56:07,775

I talk, because I tell my students,

I teach design thinking and I tell my

00:56:07,775 --> 00:56:09,665

students every time, Just say the thing.

00:56:09,815 --> 00:56:12,995

Defer judgment and, yeah,

00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:14,090

Kvon Tucker: yeah.

00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:20,870

I, that, that question to me

is the foundation of coaching,

00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:21,610

right?

00:56:21,700 --> 00:56:26,270

It's asking people, what do you

want in a million different ways,

00:56:26,830 --> 00:56:27,120

Maricella Herrera: yeah.

00:56:27,830 --> 00:56:30,290

Kvon Tucker: At a million

different points, right?

00:56:31,220 --> 00:56:34,640

And then supporting

them to move towards it.

00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,070

If I could simplify coaching, that's it.

00:56:39,220 --> 00:56:39,910

The work.

00:56:40,510 --> 00:56:42,640

Is becoming the person

that gets what you want.

00:56:43,590 --> 00:56:44,640

that's like the real work.

00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,110

Moving through fear, developing

courage, developing capabilities.

00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,680

but answering that question

like that is, that to me is the

00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,230

quintessential question in coaching.

00:56:54,590 --> 00:56:55,220

So what do you want?

00:56:56,570 --> 00:56:58,320

Okay, let's go.

00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,510

Maricella Herrera: let's go.

00:57:00,060 --> 00:57:05,610

I always ask my guests what they

could go back and tell themselves,

00:57:05,610 --> 00:57:09,750

but I picked different times in their

lives, so I'm gonna ask even two times

00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:10,800

Kvon Tucker: Okay.

00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:11,610

Maricella Herrera: one.

00:57:12,610 --> 00:57:17,955

Back when you first finally had that

question in a moment to think about it,

00:57:18,735 --> 00:57:23,895

little earlier when you were in a darker

00:57:23,895 --> 00:57:28,735

spot and two, during the investigation.

00:57:29,785 --> 00:57:30,085

Kvon Tucker: Mm,

00:57:32,395 --> 00:57:32,545

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

00:57:32,575 --> 00:57:33,205

I don't make it easy.

00:57:33,835 --> 00:57:35,035

Kvon Tucker: no man.

00:57:35,035 --> 00:57:37,165

It almost makes me emotional

thinking about the second one.

00:57:37,165 --> 00:57:38,455

So I'll answer the first one.

00:57:39,145 --> 00:57:39,535

yeah.

00:57:40,945 --> 00:57:45,940

From this place, what would I

00:57:46,735 --> 00:57:49,855

You'll be grateful for

this really difficult time.

00:57:50,845 --> 00:57:55,625

One day you'll be super

grateful for this time and.

00:57:56,625 --> 00:58:01,875

The lessons you learn from this

will be some of the greatest

00:58:01,875 --> 00:58:03,315

gifts you have to offer the world.

00:58:04,315 --> 00:58:04,515

Maricella Herrera: I love

00:58:04,555 --> 00:58:05,215

Kvon Tucker: That makes me emotional.

00:58:06,215 --> 00:58:06,505

Yeah.

00:58:07,505 --> 00:58:12,940

and what would I say to a part of

me going through the investigation?

00:58:13,940 --> 00:58:17,450

These people have no

idea who you truly are.

00:58:18,450 --> 00:58:19,200

They have no idea.

00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:20,740

Maricella Herrera: They didn't.

00:58:21,545 --> 00:58:21,765

Kvon Tucker: Oh,

00:58:22,315 --> 00:58:23,695

Maricella Herrera: Thank

you for being so open.

00:58:24,865 --> 00:58:25,765

For all the work you're doing.

00:58:25,765 --> 00:58:31,865

I do think that we need more

people who can help bring

00:58:31,865 --> 00:58:33,355

everyone into where we wanna go.

00:58:33,865 --> 00:58:34,495

Kvon Tucker: Yeah.

00:58:34,825 --> 00:58:35,155

Yeah.

00:58:35,215 --> 00:58:35,695

Thank you.

00:58:35,695 --> 00:58:36,625

Thank you for this.

00:58:36,625 --> 00:58:39,295

Thank you for this conversation.

00:58:39,295 --> 00:58:44,575

Your presence and your, the way in which

you kind of hold this conversation.

00:58:44,715 --> 00:58:46,605

I'm, it's masterful.

00:58:47,295 --> 00:58:47,775

Maricella Herrera: Aw, thank

00:58:47,895 --> 00:58:48,075

Kvon Tucker: yeah.

00:58:52,404 --> 00:58:53,424

Maricella Herrera: That's it for today.

00:58:53,514 --> 00:58:54,594

Thanks for listening.

00:58:54,894 --> 00:58:59,124

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00:59:05,034 --> 00:59:06,534

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00:59:06,684 --> 00:59:07,494

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00:59:08,004 --> 00:59:11,064

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00:59:21,414 --> 00:59:24,174

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