Authenticity in Songwriting and Sobriety: A Conversation with Mike Kennebrew

In this episode of 'Curious Goldfish,' host Jason English invites singer-songwriter Mike Kennebrew to explore the interconnection between music, vulnerability, and personal growth. Mike shares his journey of using songwriting as a means to confront his deepest fears and life's challenges, particularly the decision to quit drinking. This candid conversation also touches on the impact of sobriety on Mike's life, family, and creativity, providing insights into being present and making positive changes. Mike's reflections on daily life post-quitting alcohol are highlighted, serving as encouragement for others facing similar struggles. Additionally, Mike talks about his musical influences, experiences of moving frequently during his childhood due to his father's ministerial job, and his career progression. The episode includes discussions about being an artist, the process of songwriting, and its therapeutic aspects. Mike also touches on the crucial role of faith in his life and music. The episode concludes with Mike's performance of 'What's Left of Me,' a single written two months after he quit drinking.

00:00 The Art of Vulnerability in Music

01:01 Introducing Curious Goldfish: A Musical Journey

01:40 Mike Kennebrew: A Story of Music, Vulnerability, and Sobriety

02:17 Navigating Life's Journey Through Songwriting

05:43 The Influence of Faith and Family in Music

11:53 The Unconventional Path to Music: From Church Camp to Professional Musician

17:33 Balancing Family, Faith, and a Music Career

21:11 Ellie and Drew: A Tale of Friendship and Music

22:56 Exploring the Roots: From Church Camps to Nashville Stardom

25:31 A Serendipitous Encounter with Theo Vonn

28:49 The Nashville Connection: Building Community and Creativity

30:39 Embracing Sobriety: A Journey of Self-Discovery

39:26 The Power of Songwriting: Conveying Personal Struggles and Triumphs

44:05 Closing Thoughts and Musical Farewell

I think, I think for me, you know, why I would think that putting

2

my deepest fears in a song and singing it

for strangers would be like a safe thing.

3

But it sort of is what I do.

4

I take things that I wouldn't tell

my close friends, and I put them in

5

a song, and then I take them across

the southeast and Get on little stages

6

and sing them for people I don't know.

7

And, um, but yeah, I, I, I don't

know that I've met an artist

8

that's not a bit of a worrier.

9

And, and I don't know that I've

met a songwriter who is not to some

10

extent using that as, um, as a way

to make sense of their own lives.

11

Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

12

where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

13

with the music makers of our world.

14

I'm your host, Jason English.

15

You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

16

And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

17

Curious goldfish.

18

com.

19

I firmly hope not all nice

guys have to finish last.

20

And as someone who considers himself

a nice guy, I'm always pulling for

21

any other man out there who is not

just nice, but kind and authentic.

22

One such person is singer

songwriter, Mike Kennebrew.

23

In this episode, which is part one of

a two part series with Mike, Kennebrew.

24

com We explore the intricate

connections between music,

25

vulnerability, and personal growth.

26

He shares his experiences of using

songwriting as a cathartic process

27

to navigate his deepest fears

and life challenges, including

28

his decision to quit drinking.

29

The discussion sheds light on the

impact of sobriety on his life,

30

family, and creative process, offering

insightful reflections on being

31

present and making positive changes.

32

You should check out Mike's

Instagram account where he shares

33

reflections of daily words he was

feeling when he quit drinking.

34

They are great examples of a musician,

husband and father who is trying to

35

help those who might be struggling

with alcohol addiction or even

36

those who are just trying to take

a break from drinking temporarily.

37

Aside from that, Mike is a tremendous

musician and songwriter, having shared

38

the stage with familiar artists like

Drew Holcomb, Joan Jett, and Howie Day.

39

He closes this episode with a great

song called What's Left of Me, a

40

single he released two years ago.

41

It's a song he wrote about two

months after he quit drinking.

42

And now Mike is on the precipice

of being 900 days sober.

43

Here's Mike Kennebrew of Macon, Georgia.

44

Let's dive in.

45

Mike, thanks so much for your

46

Mike Kinnebrew: Thanks for having me, man.

47

This is awesome.

48

Jason English (Host): So we, uh,

we're at Lake Sinclair, which is

49

kind of an hour, I think Southeast of

Atlanta, but it's a hour Northwest, I

50

think North of Macon where you live,

51

Mike Kinnebrew: live, right?

52

I'm so challenged.

53

Uh, north, south, east, west.

54

I know that it took me 50 minutes.

55

50 minutes to get

56

Jason English (Host): As the crow flies.

57

All right.

58

Well, thanks.

59

Thanks so much for coming up and chatting.

60

Uh, how long have you been in Macon?

61

Mike Kinnebrew: Uh, about 18 years.

62

Jason English (Host): years.

63

Okay.

64

But you grew up in Atlanta, right?

65

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, I grew up

like east of Atlanta, um, just

66

east about, uh, Rockdale County.

67

And, um, and then my wife went

to medical school at Mercer.

68

And so we moved, uh, just

for her to do medical school.

69

And then we never left.

70

So, that was never part of the plan.

71

But, but we're, we're there.

72

Jason English (Host): Alright.

73

So, it's always been Georgia for you?

74

Mike Kinnebrew: No, no,

I was born in Florida.

75

Yeah, my dad was a preacher.

76

And we moved, he was Preaching at

different churches, and so, I mean, the

77

first 12 years of my life would have been

Florida, um, Lynchburg, Virginia, Memphis,

78

Tennessee, um, Buckeye, Arkansas, um,

Leachville, Missouri, um, another place

79

in Missouri, then Jacksonville, Florida,

and, um, I may be leaving something

80

out, but, so yeah, different school

every year, and then, um, and then moved

81

to Georgia right before high school.

82

And, and then stayed.

83

Jason English (Host): So.

84

You would think.

85

Mike Kinnebrew: You would think

that or he was murdering people.

86

And we had to like, we were on the run.

87

But, um, no he was just.

88

I wanted to ask him later on,

were you just bad at your job?

89

Why were we having to move every year?

90

But, um, I think he was great.

91

I don't know what was going on, but

we were moving like every year and,

92

uh, then he became a professor at

a seminary and that sort of stopped

93

the moving and we stayed put.

94

Jason English (Host): put.

95

Okay.

96

Yeah.

97

So, I grew up in Missouri.

98

Yeah.

99

You're the first person that's

literally uttered the words, Leachville,

100

Missouri, to me, in probably 45 years.

101

Mike Kinnebrew: So, you've

heard of that town before?

102

Yeah.

103

Jason English (Host): I can't believe that

104

that

105

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

106

We, um, so that, we

were in the boot heel of

107

Jason English (Host): hill.

108

Yeah.

109

So, so in Kennett, that's

where Sheryl Crow's from.

110

Mike Kinnebrew: I knew Kennett.

111

Kennett was one of the towns

that we could drive to,

112

Jason English (Host): Okay, yeah.

113

Yeah.

114

I mean, you're right there.

115

Like, that's it.

116

Yeah.

117

It's Tennessee, Missouri,

and Arkansas kind of area,

118

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

119

Yeah.

120

Oh,

121

Jason English (Host): okay.

122

Well, that's awesome.

123

So, yeah, I, I've kind of picked

up that, uh, that faith, right, is,

124

is, uh, is still part of your life.

125

Yeah.

126

I would imagine.

127

I guess what What kind of

imprint did that make on you?

128

Either, you know, having your dad

doing what he was doing or being

129

around other people, you know,

what, what was the imprint you

130

think that that left on your life?

131

Mike Kinnebrew: I'd say,

moving around a lot.

132

The, you know, the church was

always a part of our lives, and,

133

and that culture for better or

for worse, um, because, uh, it's

134

It's

135

hard to even, you know.

136

Give a, give a split on which was, how

much of it was better and how much of it

137

was worse, but that Christian culture,

um, was always a part of my life.

138

So, um, so I, you know, I got to

see a little bit about what I,

139

what I wanted to, to keep and what

I wanted to, to let fall away.

140

Um, but, but just a simple faith

and, uh, was, was something

141

that's, you know, definitely been

a part of my life, all of my life.

142

Jason English (Host): Yeah, that's great.

143

Uh, do you, we're gonna get to, you

know, the songs and, and some things

144

in more detail, but, uh, you, you're

an artist from what I can tell.

145

Uh, listening to you since,

you know, late last year.

146

Uh,

147

You're, you're about all the feels.

148

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

149

Jason English (Host): mean, is, is

sentiment, is that your middle name?

150

Mike Kinnebrew: Uh, it should be, man.

151

I, um, I don't, I don't know that I

like it, but it's, you know, if you're

152

trying to just sort of be who you are,

write what, write what's inside of

153

you, that's what seems to come out.

154

You know, it's just not a lot

of, um, ah, this one's just fun,

155

Jason English (Host): right.

156

Mike Kinnebrew: know?

157

Um, it's, it's all, yeah, it's all

gonna try and hit you in the feels

158

Jason English (Host): because the, um,

159

kind

160

back to the faith thing, cause you

know, family, you've got songs that are

161

sort of, I would call like lighthouse

guideposts, messages to your kids, right?

162

Um, baby girl where the big waves

are are some examples of that.

163

you talk about in, in one song, I think

first and last, that's like, um, about

164

your grandparents and their love, right.

165

But I think all of that to me

is, It was familiar to me because

166

I, I grew up in the church too.

167

It was those sentiments

about family and kids and

168

grandparents.

169

To me, that reminds me of like the

community of the faith community, right?

170

Yeah.

171

Would you agree with that?

172

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, for sure.

173

Yeah, I think that it's all kind of,

um, the architecture surrounding all

174

of the family has always been, at least

in my experience, the church has always

175

been the framework that it existed in.

176

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

177

But you're not in your music.

178

You're not like, it's not overt.

179

It's not like Christian music,

180

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, no.

181

Jason English (Host):

all, it's very subtle.

182

Mike Kinnebrew: No, I literally I

shouted yesterday because it was,

183

there was Christian music on in the

car and I was like, I hate this music.

184

And uh, um, and some of it is good.

185

I don't hate all of it, but, but

yeah, I don't, I don't write it.

186

And I've had people ask me, um,

recently someone asked me in an

187

email, she said, you know, well,

188

if you are a.

189

believer, um, a Christian, why

do you not write Christian songs?

190

And, um, I didn't really have a

great answer for that other than I

191

just write what I write, you know.

192

I try to write good songs, and I think,

you know, as far as my faith framework,

193

it's just, uh, I believe that God made me.

194

He made me good at certain things, and

I try to do them the best that I can.

195

And when I get an opportunity to talk

about the reason or the why, then I do.

196

But not to try to be too preachy.

197

Jason English (Host): Right.

198

Well, I think

199

Yeah,

200

again, my experience growing up in

what I would call the buckle of the

201

Bible Belt, which is central Missouri

I grew up in a lot of Christian music

202

and you know, like you said some of

its good but Looking back Mike my take

203

kind of is there's a lot of folks.

204

I think unfortunately We're just kind

of trying to make a buck off Jesus a

205

a off Jesus.

206

Yeah.

207

pretty shallow, you know, steal

some scriptures here and there

208

and kind of say, you know, praise

Jesus and sell some records.

209

But I think like how I would respond

to that email, just hearing that

210

I'd be like, well, isn't God about.

211

Yeah.

212

Family and kids

213

Mike Kinnebrew: and

214

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

215

Lifelong love.

216

Yeah.

217

Like isn't, don't you see

him through those things?

218

Yeah.

219

So like, I am, like I am

writing Christian music.

220

Mike Kinnebrew: Christian music.

221

Right.

222

Yeah.

223

Yeah, no, I totally agree.

224

And, uh, and I, and I think that

those songs, um, you know, I have a,

225

uh, I love the audience that I have.

226

I'm not just singing in churches.

227

I rarely sing in churches.

228

Um, and so I, I just, I want

music that anyone can relate to.

229

And, um, and yeah, I, I would say

to that also, like, well, what am I

230

singing or writing that is not, that

is un Christian or anti Christian?

231

Jason English (Host): No, it is, yeah,

it's, it, that drives me crazy cause it's

232

like, just because you have in your house.

233

Bible verses everywhere.

234

It's almost like they're kind of

trying to like overcompensate Maybe

235

some other issues and you know As

long as you've got the bumper stickers

236

and the signs and everything then

you're the right kind of christian,

237

Mike Kinnebrew: Right, yeah, which

is, in experience, not proven to be

238

Yeah.

239

Yeah.

240

No, that's uh, yeah, don't

don't ever write like

241

don't,

242

I I don't plan to.

243

I mean, I just, I wrote a song this

year that kind of was the most overt.

244

Um, but, but even in it, I mean, I say

things that would never be on Christian

245

radio, about, uh, you know, just try to

be honest and go, all right, the next

246

lyric would say something that would

keep this song off of Christian radio.

247

And I go, well, I'm going to write

it anyway, you know, cause it

248

just want to write what's true.

249

Jason English (Host): How soon in your

life did you get involved in music?

250

I

251

Mike Kinnebrew: was in the ninth grade.

252

We had just moved to Georgia and, um, and

I got actually sent off to church camp.

253

Um, I didn't want to go, but, um,

it was like, Oh, you'll meet some

254

people, you know, and so I go and

I don't know anyone and everyone

255

else's friends with each other.

256

And, during the free time, there was

this guy that had like a guitar and he

257

would go out and sit under a tree and.

258

Play the guitar and all the girls would

just like swarm him and I'm just like

259

loner guy who doesn't have any friends and

I'm thinking that, that, that could be me.

260

You know, so I got home and

said, dad, don't you play guitar?

261

Don't you have a guitar?

262

You, you gotta teach me.

263

So he, he showed me some chords and about

ninth grade, I started playing guitar.

264

Didn't start singing until later.

265

Didn't start writing

until a good bit later.

266

And initially it was just learning

other people's songs and singing

267

them, doing four hours in a

bar, you know, for cover tunes.

268

tunes.

269

Jason English (Host): Nice.

270

did you ever have, a normal, quote

unquote normal job or career, uh,

271

before music kind of became your thing?

272

Mike Kinnebrew: Right.

273

Um, I mean, I worked normal jobs

like, uh, I was a gymnastics coach.

274

Jason English (Host): were a gymnastics

275

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah,

I don't do gymnastics.

276

Um, but I was, uh, when I was in college,

this guy put a, uh, a, a bulletin

277

up and it said, you know, we were

hiring guys that are good with kids.

278

Um, it pays well and it was near my house

and, uh, it was Rockdale Gymnastics.

279

And so I was like, I don't,

I don't do gymnastics.

280

He goes, that's okay.

281

I mean, you just got to be good with

little kids because it was, it's like

282

five, six year olds that you just got to

say, jump in the middle of the trampoline,

283

you know, and don't only one at a time.

284

And yeah, I'm not teaching

high level gymnastics here.

285

It was more like the very entry level.

286

So yeah, but I loved it.

287

I was coach Mike.

288

Um,

289

I

290

Jason English (Host): bet you were great.

291

Mike Kinnebrew: but when I would say like,

Hey, the, the longer I did it, the more

292

you got to, Teach them different stuff.

293

So, you know here we're doing

this round off and you gotta you

294

know Do this and do that and and

they go what will you show me?

295

That's when I go, um, it's not my job

to show you you just do what I tell you

296

Jason English (Host): you

didn't even know anything about

297

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, he's

a football football coach.

298

He's a football coach.

299

Yeah.

300

So, I didn't have that, that, that

illustration to lean on back then.

301

I wish I had.

302

I could have been.

303

I'm Ted Lasso.

304

Jason English (Host): yeah, when,

when's the last time you used

305

the term round off, by the way?

306

Mike Kinnebrew: Um.

307

Yeah, it's definitely been about 20 years.

308

That was, that was about 20 years ago when

coached gymnastics, but, um, yeah, but

309

it was just, it was glorified daycare.

310

Um, they had, they had real coaches

coaching the real gymnastics,

311

but for the first graders, you

know, I could just keep them safe

312

and, and keep them in a line and.

313

and all that.

314

It was, it was fun though.

315

I liked working with kids.

316

I was, if I had not done music, I

was, I think I was going to be like

317

a, an elementary school teacher.

318

Cause it was the only thing I ever

did besides music that when I was

319

doing it, I wasn't thinking about

playing music when I was hanging out

320

with the kids and making them laugh

or entertaining them or whatever.

321

I was, I really enjoyed it.

322

it.

323

Jason English (Host): That's awesome.

324

So at what point did you say, okay,

the music thing could be, could be

325

something that you could pursue?

326

Mike Kinnebrew: It was always the the

minute, I wasn't I wasn't a sports guy.

327

I didn't.

328

My dad wasn't really an athlete

and didn't play any sports, so

329

he didn't get me into sports.

330

And, um, I didn't make good grades.

331

I didn't have, any clear path forward.

332

So as soon as I seemed to have

an aptitude for music, I thought,

333

well, let me see if I can do this.

334

And so that was always the, the goal

and the plan and anything I did between

335

delivering pizzas for Papa John's or

working at the gymnastics gym was always

336

just something to kind of supplement,

um, until I could make a living playing

337

playing

338

Jason English (Host): At what point did

you realize that you could make a living?

339

Mike Kinnebrew: pretty early on.

340

Yeah.

341

Um, Not a good living, but, but

you could go and, and, and play.

342

This is, you know, I was.

343

It was a lot easier to get paid to go

sing for four hours in Buckhead, um,

344

of the Eagles and James Taylor and

all that than it was to get anyone to

345

pay you to, to sing your own songs.

346

So as long as I had the kind of

stamina to, to drive up there and

347

play from 10 PM to 2 AM for, um, you

know, a couple hundred bucks, then.

348

I could, I could make some money doing

it and then I would always have something

349

at a church on Sundays because I could

lead the music at a church and, um, and

350

that was, you know, it was a blessing

for me to have a steady income from that.

351

And I think it was hopefully a blessing

for them too, to have somebody that,

352

Wasn't just using them for a paycheck

and was pretty decent at it to do it.

353

So between the two, I've always been able

to, to, to do it, make money with music.

354

Making music.

355

Jason English (Host): back to

the church camp, that's funny.

356

Cause like the, those guys with

the guitars, I mean, there's a

357

lot of talented musicians in the

358

Mm-Hmm.

359

Um, so that, that's funny that that,

that's kind of the, the aha moment.

360

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, yeah, it

was a totally shallow, totally,

361

uh, I just want girls to like me

and they seem to like this guy.

362

So yeah,

363

yeah,

364

they just, they're all, all my wife,

um, has a birthday on, uh, March 13th.

365

Emma will be.

366

14 on March 20th, Turner just turned 12

on February 28th, so it's like a three

367

week span and everybody has a birthday.

368

Jason English (Host): You're busy.

369

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, so I got,

they're 12 and 14 basically.

370

He is, he is 12 and she's 14.

371

Jason English (Host): Are

they into music as, as well?

372

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lindsey

plays piano and I taught Lindsey guitar.

373

Um, she

374

hasn't really taught them piano

much, but I've taught them both

375

guitar and they both seem to like it.

376

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

377

And, uh,

378

Mike Kinnebrew: yeah, Turner, I would

say that would, that's probably his

379

main thing more than any other hobby.

380

He likes to play guitar.

381

Jason English (Host): main So if

Turner was to say listen Dad I want

382

to be like a professional musician,

383

Mike Kinnebrew: right.

384

Jason English (Host): would

you be like, uh hell no, or.

385

It's possible.

386

I mean, you know, because the

industry has changed so much.

387

Like, do you see, is that a future

that you'd be like, yeah, go for it or,

388

Mike Kinnebrew: It would just have

to be, you know, how, how, how do

389

you want to make a living doing this?

390

You know, are you going to be

an insanely good guitar player?

391

Um, There's a lot of those, you

know, and, um, not all of them

392

can make a living doing it.

393

Are you going to write songs?

394

You're going to write songs that you sing?

395

Are you going to write songs

that other people sing?

396

You try to sell them.

397

Um, so I think I would love to sit down

and if he said, I want to do this, um,

398

I'd love to go, okay, well, let's talk

about how, what does that look like?

399

I certainly wouldn't be like, hell no.

400

Um, cause, cause it has not,

I know some friends who would

401

be, uh, for their kids, but it.

402

I just it has not been hard for me.

403

I haven't been hugely successful, but

I've also never been the starving artist.

404

I think largely in part, early on.

405

I always had, a thing at a church,

you know, to kind of help me.

406

And then my wife is a physician, so,

um, and I've always had some sort of

407

Jason English (Host): yeah, that's good

408

Mike Kinnebrew: income, you know?

409

it hasn't been a real rough,

starving artist thing for me that

410

would make me jaded about it.

411

And, yeah, and I haven't been

successful enough to be jaded.

412

Um, I've just sort of had a very

charmed, experience with music.

413

Jason English (Host): No, it's been good.

414

I mean, you've, you've opened for a

number of well known artists, right?

415

Yeah, yeah.

416

Um, and I'd imagine you've

toured a little bit.

417

Mm hmm.

418

Is it mostly in the Southeast,

419

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, mostly southeast.

420

Um, actually 30A is, has opened up some

more things, for me just because of

421

all the people that come from all over.

422

So, uh, within a couple days

of, of, of that festival.

423

I was booked in Dallas

to do something in April.

424

I was in Scotland last year, for

Fringe Festival and I'm going

425

back in June to play again.

426

Um, do three shows there with a friend.

427

So, um, but most of it has been, you

know, Florida, Tennessee, North Carolina,

428

South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama.

429

Jason English (Host): Oh, that's neat.

430

Yeah.

431

Yeah.

432

So, uh, I noticed, you know, you did

a song with Ellie Holcomb and uh,

433

you know, Drew and Ellie are awesome.

434

Uh, I've seen him twice actually in

Atlanta both the years on Valentine's day.

435

Yeah.

436

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

437

Yeah, they do that kind of traditional.

438

Jason English (Host): It seems

like they're probably the coolest,

439

chillest, happiest couple on stage.

440

You know, you never know, but like,

are they cool to hang out with?

441

Mike Kinnebrew: Um, yeah, yeah.

442

I've hung out with Drew

more than with Ellie.

443

I wasn't even there when Ellie

did that song, um, on my record.

444

Um, she did it after I had already

cut the vocals and I was back in

445

Georgia and she went in and did it.

446

But, um, yeah, Ellie's one

of the sweetest people.

447

I mean, she is, she is exactly what

What she portrays herself to be.

448

Very sweet, very kind, very bubbly.

449

She and Drew's personalities

are vastly different.

450

Um, but Drew's a solid guy.

451

He's a good guy.

452

He, um, he's been a good

friend to me over the years.

453

Always, he's, he's on a rocket ship.

454

I mean, they're, they're blowing up.

455

Sometimes people like that don't take

your calls anymore and he always, he

456

always responds and takes my calls and

he's a, he's a, he's a kind guy and,

457

um, yeah, they're, they're both very,

458

very

459

Jason English (Host): both

very, the word genuine comes to

460

mind when i see them on stage.

461

Again, you never know.

462

i'm glad you can reinforce that

463

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, I would

say that and I, I've known him

464

since, um, for about 15, 20 years.

465

they haven't changed even though

they're doing a lot, a lot of big

466

things now, um, very good people.

467

Jason English (Host): And then like

back to the Christian music thing

468

briefly, like Ellie Holcomb, some would

consider, I think she's kind of done

469

country, folk, Americana, and then a

little bit of Christian, but she's one

470

of the ones that's like, okay, like

that's cool, you know, cause cause

471

she's great and it's authentic and it's,

472

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, and I think there's

several like that, you know, um, the

473

singer songwriters who, who venture into

Christian music, they seem to still be

474

creating, you know, unique, good art.

475

And I would definitely

put Ellie in with that.

476

I mean, she's a true songwriter she's

real, really popular in Christian music.

477

and then Drew is really popular in

the Americana thing and then they

478

do their thing together and it's

a beautiful thing, you know, yeah.

479

Jason English (Host): That's awesome.

480

And then Matthew Perryman Jones, right?

481

How long have you known him?

482

Mike Kinnebrew: Longer

than Drew and Ellie.

483

Matthew and I met when

he lived here in Atlanta.

484

he moved to Nashville about a year after

we became friends and we went, uh, we, we

485

did some . He probably won't like this,

but we did some church camps together.

486

I brought him down to Panama City

Beach to do like a music thing

487

over a church camp with me and that

was when we were both just I mean

488

probably 21 years old or something

and then he went out to Nashville and

489

um,

490

started writing songs a lot more and got

a publishing deal and Again, he he's he's

491

had a lot of success He's I respect him

and look up to him as a writer as much

492

as anybody and he's a great guy, too

493

Jason English (Host): Did you bring

him to perform at the church camp?

494

Mike Kinnebrew: So I was having to

go and I was like, man, come with me.

495

Would you just come?

496

And, uh, cause when we're not,

yeah, in Panama city, when we're not

497

doing the music, we just hang out.

498

And, and he came for some reason,

he wanted to go deep sea fishing.

499

He took me on my first deep sea

fishing and, uh, it was miserable.

500

I was throwing up for five hours

and, uh, we still talk about that,

501

but, he went down and he, he, he

kind of, he, Drew and Matthew and,

502

and I, we all kind of were doing the

church thing and the, and the sing.

503

If you were a guy writing songs, um,

at that point in time, the church

504

was a good place to sing them.

505

If you were, um, wholesome,

you didn't even necessarily

506

have to be overtly Christian.

507

And so we were both doing, we were

all doing some of that and, um,

508

and then they kind of, um, just

went more Americana folk stuff.

509

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

510

makes sense

511

Mike Kinnebrew: and so did I.

512

Um, but, but I think we all have a

lot of people like that have their

513

roots and that Ben Rector, uh, Andrew

Rip, um, a lot of those guys, you

514

know, got their start in the church.

515

I think

516

Jason English (Host): think I, I

think I met, I didn't meet him, but

517

I think I met his music through,

uh, did you ever see paste magazine?

518

Yeah.

519

Yeah, so they, it's like,

I wish I still had them.

520

I actually regret it.

521

I, I used to have every paste sampler

because they would send the magazine.

522

Mike Kinnebrew: about that.

523

Was Matthew on a

524

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

525

Yeah.

526

Yeah.

527

And I forgot the song, but it was,

528

2006, 2007, maybe, I don't know,

but it was the coolest thing.

529

Cause you get a CD inside the

magazine and it'd have, you

530

know, they'd load up the songs.

531

It was, it was almost like a the

532

but it was on a disc and uh, yeah, I

remember cause he is a unique name.

533

He was like Matthew Perryman Jones.

534

That's interesting.

535

Um, do you, have you seen him lately?

536

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, we

had dinner last month.

537

And that's when we bumped into, uh, uh,

what's his name at Jenny's Ice Cream.

538

Um, Theo Vonn.

539

Jason English (Host): Oh, Theo Vonn

is the comedian, the podcaster guy.

540

Yeah.

541

All right.

542

Yeah.

543

Mike Kinnebrew: But no, yeah, I saw him.

544

So I've been going back and

forth to Nashville recording

545

this album for about nine months.

546

And Matthew and I have gotten

dinner a few times while I'm there.

547

He's I have a few friends out there.

548

It's like such a great community.

549

I wish I love that my people are here in

Georgia, but man, so many great people.

550

that I love live in Nashville and um,

so Matthew's on the, on the top of the

551

call list of people when I'm in town,

I'd love to get dinner with and I don't,

552

I don't spend my life with people who

are doing music, you know, I live in

553

Macon and I mostly just wake up feeling

like a dad and a husband and a, um,

554

guy that works at his church and works

with the youth and stuff like that.

555

And so it's great when I'm in Nashville

to get together with someone like Matthew

556

and And talk about being a songwriter,

being an artist, and, and what his

557

careers look like, and what's coming up.

558

It just, something alive,

comes to life in me.

559

So

560

Jason English (Host): So are

you guys just hanging out with

561

Theo Vonn just randomly, or?

562

Yeah,

563

Mike Kinnebrew: we were talking

about Comedians, um, my friend, my

564

friend Jody's an actor and, uh, and

he was in a movie with Tom Segura.

565

Um, do you know who he is?

566

I

567

Jason English (Host): I know who he is,

568

Mike Kinnebrew: Tom's a comedian and,

uh, he was, Jody was in this movie

569

with Mark Wahlberg and Tom Segura.

570

So he became buddies with Tom

Segura and Tom was playing at the

571

Tabernacle and invited us to come.

572

And so I went out and I was

like, Oh, this guy's great.

573

So Tom is, uh, is one of

my favorite comedians.

574

And we were talking about

like, who's your favorite?

575

And someone said like Chappelle.

576

And then I was like, who is that

guy that has the, uh, kind of the

577

mullet and he's kind of younger.

578

I got a real kind of interesting way

of talking and, and they said, uh, my

579

friend William said, that's Theo Vonn.

580

And I was like, oh yeah, do you like him?

581

And then Matthew goes, uh, he's here.

582

And I was like,

583

like.

584

It

585

what do you mean here?

586

Like he's, he's a, he's here.

587

Like I said, in like here,

like in this Jeni's Ice Cream

588

Island thing.

589

He was

590

like, yeah, um, he is here right now.

591

We were all so, it was like we had

summoned him by, I said, what's his name?

592

William said Theo Vonn and

Matthew said he's here.

593

And I was just thinking, man, we

picked the wrong dude to summon.

594

Like I would have said,

595

We

596

talk about Bono or somebody

like, but, but Theo Vonn wasn't.

597

Yeah, but Matthew and I had dinner.

598

Jason English (Host): That's, that's

599

Mike Kinnebrew: and then we bumped into

Theo Vonn, but didn't speak to him.

600

Jason English (Host): No, that's

601

Mike Kinnebrew: But he about turned

that Jeni's ice cream upside down.

602

He came in with a girl and totally just

sat down trying to have his ice cream.

603

And by the time we got up to leave, we

were walking out and every, like, you

604

know, what, Belmont student was in there

with their phones, either recording

605

him or on their phone going, He's here!

606

I'm looking at him right now!

607

they were leaving

608

But they were leaving them alone, you

know, apparently that's the Nashville

609

code is you don't mess with them.

610

Um, that they, they, they move

to Nashville because they know

611

people there will let them be.

612

Jason English (Host): So you mentioned

the community of, you know, you

613

love Georgia, but it's Nashville.

614

So Atlanta, obviously in Georgia in

general, Atlanta has a tremendous

615

music scene being in Macon.

616

How do you, how do you find time

and how do you make that work

617

to like have those times where

you connect with other artists?

618

Cause it is important, right?

619

Mike Kinnebrew: I don't connect

as much as I wish I did yeah.

620

this year I've done it

more than ever before.

621

Between going to Nashville and working

on the record I'm around these musicians

622

and I'm in town and have a chance to, to

reach out and say, Hey, can we get lunch?

623

Can we get dinner?

624

And so between that and then doing some of

these festivals like 30A where I bump into

625

songwriters that I've, I've kind of seen

them around or I've talked to them through

626

social media and now I'm with them.

627

We're doing the same.

628

We're in the same small town.

629

And uh, so.

630

I've been networking more, or just

building community more, or trying

631

to join a community that's already

there more than I ever have before.

632

I'm kind of introverted.

633

I choose to not hang out with people,

and uh, but it's, it's so valuable.

634

It's been really good for me.

635

Jason English (Host): I would imagine

just the inspiration and creativity

636

just probably feeds off each

other when you hang out with Eliot

637

Bronson or whoever might be there

638

Mike Kinnebrew: Well, Well, it just

helps me at least, you know, I don't

639

know if any of them feel this way, but

it helps me to feel like, like I said,

640

I don't really feel like a, an artist

most of the time when I wake up i just

641

feel like a 46 year old man, you know,

and uh, getting to be around other

642

artists helps me to kind of remember

who I am and what the fabric is of me.

643

Jason English (Host): Yeah, 46 year

old, uh, former gymnastics coach.

644

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

645

Let's not forget it.

646

Yeah.

647

Yeah.

648

Jason English (Host): So I, what I want

to do is shift a little bit, uh, so

649

again, I started following you late last

year and then in January you started

650

doing something on Instagram, which I

thought was pretty, pretty interesting.

651

you talk about being vulnerable and,

and, empathetic, uh, just those are

652

terms that we hear a lot about, but you

went on Instagram and was like, listen,

653

uh, if you're trying out dry January,

654

Mike Kinnebrew: hmm.

655

Jason English (Host): I want

to share some, some, some

656

thoughts with you, I guess.

657

Could you tell us, could you

give us kind of how you would,

658

how you explained it online and

we can go through some examples.

659

It was really pretty cool.

660

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

661

Yeah.

662

I didn't realize that it would be,

I didn't know if anyone would care.

663

Listen, I didn't, I didn't know if

it would have a reaction or not.

664

And, uh, but yeah, January one, we

were in Highlands, North Carolina,

665

and I just thought, you know what?

666

I'm going to put this out there.

667

So when I quit drinking, um, about

two and a half, three years ago, uh,

668

I made a list every day or I just made

a little note every day in my, my, my

669

notes app on my phone of, um, something I

noticed that day when I wasn't drinking.

670

And, uh, something positive like,

Oh, well, this is different.

671

You know, I never, I never used to

take any days off when I was drinking.

672

I drank every day as soon as the work

was done for the day, I would make a

673

drink and, and, and drink, you know.

674

Quite a lot.

675

after about 30 days of that, I quit, I

quit making the list, but, um, I held

676

on to the note, and I thought, you

know, that might be good for some other

677

people that are, that are doing it.

678

And so, it just occurred to me

to put, put one out every day.

679

I'm just gonna read what I had, what I

wrote, and, uh, maybe it'll, you know, for

680

those of you that are trying dry January,

maybe it'll, uh, Help you to see something

681

positive to get you through another day.

682

You know, um, it's the why behind when

you're, when you're doing something

683

like that, you know, whether it's,

you're trying to diet or trying to give

684

up alcohol or trying to do whatever.

685

At some point in the day, you're

like, why am I doing this?

686

I'm an adult.

687

I can, I, this is America, damn it.

688

Like I can.

689

And so to have a, have a why behind

it and go, well, I'm doing it because.

690

Um, because this or that, you know,

these good things are coming from

691

it, and that's why I'm doing it.

692

So,

693

Jason English (Host):

No, it's really neat.

694

So yeah, on Instagram, Mike Kennebrew,

you can, you can look at, you know,

695

look it up if you're listening.

696

Uh, but you, you basically say sobriety

is, and then it's like the theme of

697

the day based on the note that would,

that you did two and a half years ago.

698

Right.

699

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, exactly.

700

Jason English (Host): So like

when, like the first day you

701

said, you know, sobriety is.

702

Not dying from something stupid.

703

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, I went kind of

704

Jason English (Host): That's,

you know, that's good.

705

Yeah, some

706

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

707

Some of 'em were silly.

708

Uh, like I think my sobriety is,

I think my skin's looking better,

709

skin looking better, and uh, but

the first one was, you know, yeah.

710

Was not,

711

for

712

not dying for something

stupid because, uh.

713

Um, when I was drinking, I would, I would

get behind the wheel of a car, you know,

714

you tell yourself you're okay, you tell

yourself, um, it's not very far to drive

715

or whatever, and, uh, and, and, so, that

one went pretty deep, and it didn't stay

716

that deep and heavy for the whole 30

days, but, but yeah, that was, That was

717

one of them, and it was a real one, and

I don't, I don't really know how else

718

to be, you know, um, whether writing

songs or talking on a podcast or putting

719

those sobriety is things out there.

720

I just, I'm

721

I'm

722

maybe candid to a fault and vulnerable to

a fault, and you just hope that by being

723

that way that it gives people permission

to be that way in return, you know.

724

Jason English (Host): No, I

think people appreciate it.

725

You know, especially if you're an artist.

726

Uh, you know, people want to

know, I think, the context of

727

Break

728

the heartbreak, the pain, the um, the

love that people are going through.

729

Even if, you know, even if they've

never experienced it, they could

730

probably, I think, somehow relate to it.

731

And at some point in their lives,

it'll, it'll be relevant to them,

732

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, yeah, it's

sort of and I don't mean to say

733

anything negative about people

who don't write their own songs

734

Um,

735

If you don't write your own songs, I'd

love to sell you mine But it's kind of

736

a wet blanket on falling in love with

a song and then realizing the person

737

singing it You really you know didn't

write it didn't have any real emotional.

738

They could have a connection to it.

739

But

740

um,

741

but it's just Sort of a little

deflating feeling when you go.

742

Oh, they didn't even write that, you

know, and so whether I can Relate to

743

what that person is singing about or not.

744

I can just I believe them, you know

and and it's like they're telling me

745

something always felt like music was

songs were telling me something and

746

so the fact that the person lived

through that whether I could relate to

747

it or not meant it resonated with me

748

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

749

Yeah.

750

So the, just to kind of wrap

this up on the sobriety is.

751

Things so, you know not dying from

something stupid was day one day day two

752

was sobriety is reading with Turner, which

is cool because that Obviously time with

753

kids is special, you know every day that

goes by they're getting older It's one day

754

closer to when they're not not at home.

755

So the fact that You're

sober not drinking.

756

I think those I would imagine those

times became even more special

757

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, I mean, there were,

not to mention, I mean, there were times

758

when I would go up there and, uh, read

with 'em and just sort of zone out, zonk

759

out, you read, um, you know, I'm not real.

760

I'm there, but I'm not really there.

761

Uh, and then there were other times I

just go, I'm going to go to bed early,

762

you know, and so I think on day two,

the reason I wrote that was just that

763

I was up there and we were reading

and I realized I was enjoying it.

764

You know, I'm looking at him, I'm

thinking about how he's getting better

765

at reading and how he's getting older

and, and I'm wide awake and I'm in

766

this moment and I'm thinking about

all the other times that I passed up

767

on, on being right there where I was.

768

Um, because

769

when

770

I'd start drinking, I'd just

get tired, you know, and I

771

just want to stay where I'm at.

772

Don't want to go up

the stairs and do that.

773

So, yeah, it was definitely,

774

was a,

775

that was a real eye opener for me

that I'm here, and I probably wouldn't

776

be here if I was drinking that day.

777

Jason English (Host): that's awesome,

and Day 7 is that, Sobriety is

778

being 100 percent present Yeah.

779

In your life.

780

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

781

Yeah, I was, you know, I went Um, when

I talk about how I quit, then no one

782

ever said, Oh, thank God you quit.

783

You know, like we were

all worried about you.

784

Nobody really knew that the effect

it was having on me, but I knew

785

that that, cause I would always

show up, I showed up for everything.

786

Um, I didn't, I didn't know show work or,

uh, games or, or plays or anything, but I

787

wasn't necessarily always there, you know?

788

Um, and so that was, yeah, that was

definitely day seven was not just

789

being there, but being actually there.

790

Yeah.

791

I credit to you for doing that.

792

Jason English (Host): You know,

not a lot of 46 year old former

793

gymnastics coaches would pull that off,

794

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

795

Well, I stuck it.

796

I stuck the landing on that one.

797

Jason English (Host): That's

awesome, yeah, no, it's seriously

798

like it in all seriousness

799

Um,

800

It was just something like okay.

801

This guy is authentic and genuine

and it wasn't like you're looking

802

for likes or fishing for Mike

you're such you Praise Jesus.

803

You're, you know, you know, God bless you.

804

You know, you weren't, it was just like,

Hey guys, here's a couple of things.

805

If you're trying to Dry January

out, hopefully this will inspire you

806

to, to think about, you know, uh,

getting, getting through that and

807

maybe you'll make it a life change.

808

You know, it was really, really cool.

809

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

810

Sometimes that vulnerability is like

you get hit by traffic going both

811

ways because the church, I think some

of the, my more churchy friends were

812

like, don't put it out there that

you, I don't drink that much, like

813

that's, it makes them a little nervous

that I was being so honest about it.

814

And then, and then maybe some others

were like, you know, are you trying

815

to sound like drinking is bad?

816

Are you trying to be judgmental

to people who are drinking?

817

And I go, no, I mean, not at all.

818

Like if you can drink and not, not.

819

be irresponsible and waste your

life with it, then I miss it.

820

I loved, I still miss it.

821

I love drinking.

822

but I just couldn't, I just

couldn't do it in a right way.

823

But yeah, that being, being honest

and, and doing it the way I did it

824

and sharing it the way I shared it.

825

Um, hopefully it came through the right

way, but I feel like, you know, at some

826

point people on the extreme in either

camp are like, ah, we don't like you.

827

Jason English (Host): yeah, that's,

well, that's, that's disappointing,

828

but I guess not surprising.

829

Um, so I think right about that time

when you decided to not drink anymore.

830

I think you wrote a song

called, uh, What's Left of Me?

831

Is that right?

832

I guess, uh,

833

Mike Kinnebrew: was

about a month or two in,

834

Jason English (Host): Was it,

okay, so it was kind of correlated.

835

Um, yeah, tell us, cause it, it's

the, I think one of your most recent

836

singles, or maybe the most recent single.

837

Um,

838

Mike Kinnebrew: Second to There's

one, one that's newer, but Yeah.

839

It's, it's, it's, um,

the's second to most recent

840

Jason English (Host): to most recent.

841

Yeah.

842

It's, it's beautiful.

843

Uh,

844

Mike Kinnebrew: I'm,

845

Jason English (Host): I'm going

to read some of the lyrics here in

846

a second, but what, what was the

inspiration for what's left of me?

847

Mike Kinnebrew: Uh, well anytime

I start writing, I don't quite

848

know where it's gonna go.

849

And, um, you just, you start writing

and it sort of reveals itself

850

what the song is gonna be about.

851

And, um, but I was definitely everyday

waking up with the headline that,

852

I used to do this and now I'm not

doing this and life is weird, you

853

know, it's just weird that I used

to drink and now I'm not drinking.

854

What is going on and

how do I process this?

855

And so, um, but I'm making

a change at 44 years old.

856

Um, you start thinking about all the time

that's passed and, and as I put alcohol

857

kind of in the rear view mirror, I'm

looking back and I'm thinking about all

858

the nights that I didn't go up and read

with Turner or all the, all the, Things

859

I wasn't really present for and you just

start to it's it's easy to get in this

860

loop of beating yourself up over The

time that you've lost maybe going in the

861

wrong direction or wasted and so that the

kind of the theme to to that song is just

862

um,

863

I could could I take what's left of my

life and say, okay, well, if there's some

864

kind of plan, I'll just, I'll surrender

and you can have what's left of me.

865

And, uh, let's see if we can do

something great with that, you

866

know, and I believe that we can.

867

Jason English (Host): that's,

that's, that's incredible.

868

I love that.

869

And I think each verse, I could be

wrong, but are you, you're kind of, it

870

feels like you're talking to Lindsay

in one verse or maybe a family member

871

and then kind of the last verse, it

feels like you're talking to God,

872

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

873

Yeah.

874

The last verse is definitely,

um, sort of a faith, uh, like

875

a repentance and altar moment.

876

Jason English (Host): Baptism in the river

877

Mike Kinnebrew: yeah, exactly.

878

Yeah.

879

Like a, like a salvation,

uh, kind of moment.

880

Um, but the, uh, yeah, the first about

with Lindsay is that she, you know,

881

I guess I'm drinking more than most,

at least that's what she told me.

882

And, and, uh, she really was the

only one who said, you know, yeah.

883

Hey, um, how, how many is that?

884

You know?

885

Um, but yeah, and the first

verse takes on worry and anxiety.

886

Cause if I would say I spent a lot

of my life worrying, I'm a big.

887

Time worry guy.

888

And uh, and then the second

verse takes on drinking.

889

And the, the two, probably the

two big things that were big kinda

890

life wasters for me was worrying

and then, and then maybe abusing

891

same.

892

Yeah.

893

Yeah.

894

Well, the first verse I just

wrote, I think I wrote it down.

895

Hopefully I got this right.

896

Um, Lord have mercy on a

troubled heart like mine

897

who

898

Jason English (Host): who could

probably do some good if he

899

wasn't worried all the time.

900

And if there's still some kind

of plan for what my life can be.

901

I'll lay down and you can

have what's left of me.

902

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah.

903

Jason English (Host): That's killer.

904

Mike Kinnebrew: Yeah, thank

905

Jason English (Host):

Yeah, that's really killer.

906

The worry aspect of it is, um, Do you

think a lot of artists are anxious

907

and worried and and they, do they

use the art and they, do they use

908

the time and in front of people

to sort of like work through that?

909

Yeah.

910

Mike Kinnebrew: Um, yeah, I think,

I think for me, you know, why I

911

would think that putting my deepest

fears in a song and singing it for

912

strangers would be like a safe thing.

913

But it sort of is what I do.

914

I take things that I wouldn't tell

my close friends, and I put them in

915

a song, and then I take them across

the southeast and Get on little stages

916

and sing them for people I don't know.

917

And, um, but yeah, I, I, I don't

know that I've met an artist

918

that's not a bit of a worrier.

919

And, and I don't know that I've

met a songwriter who is not to some

920

extent using that as, um, as a way

to make sense of their own lives.

921

You know, um, that I've heard

more times than I can count.

922

They say it's, you know,

cheaper than therapy.

923

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

924

Well, appreciate your time.

925

you play us some music?

926

Mike Kinnebrew: So.

927

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

928

episode of Curious Goldfish.

929

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

930

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

931

Until next time, stay curious.