Join veteran Star Trek, and now Babylon 5 podcasters, Brent Allen and Jeff Akin as they dive into Babylon 5 for a second time! They revisit each episode with fresh insights and deeper analysis, reflecting on their first-time reactions. Perfect for First Ones and people new to the series, this journey offers a deeper connection to the world of Babylon 5!

There is true shock and awe as Justin lays down the Shadows' side of the story!

For the First Time Episode - https://www.babylon5first.com/episode/zhadum

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[2:01] It's actually about what's happening right now. Anyway, so there's that. Now, that being said, I would like to speak directly to the folks out there who are joining us. And this is your first watch through Babylon 5, or maybe you're not even watching through. You're just kind of hanging out with Jeff and I. Totally cool. Love it. You're welcome. Just not here. We have a whole other show called Babylon 5 for the first time that is completely spoiler free. Trust us. You want to go join us over there. So pause this one. I don't tell you. I keep saying stop and I need to say stop. I don't want you to stop. I just want you to pause, go back to the other one, and then come back here once you catch up with us. Trust us. It's better that way because that being said, for Jeff and I.

[2:43] Everything from any point in the franchise from any point in the timeline, in-universe, out-of-universe, canonical, extra-canonical, headcanon, or JMS canon, doesn't matter. It is all fair game for Jeff and I to talk about. We can, we will talk about it. So this is your one and only spoiler warning. My warning is sincere. Ignore it at your own peril. Brent, this is a landmark episode for us. We're closing out season three for the second time by watching an episode called Zaha Doom. Do you remember from the first time around what you predicted this episode was going to be about? I did. I said this is basically Sheridan trying to decide whether or not to go to Zaha Doom. We've heard it several times now. Yes, I know, I know, I know. We've heard it several times now. If you go to Zaha Doom, you will die. Don't go to Zaha Doom. Don't go to Zaha Doom. So what's going to happen? He's going to go. He's going to go to Zaha Doom. What happens when you put a sign in the window that says, please don't throw a brick through this window? You can get a brick through that window. Every time.

[3:43] Don't go to Zaha Doom. Don't go to Zaha Doom. Your Honor, the sign said, do not throw the brick. How could I not throw the brick? Right.

[3:51] But I said specifically here because Anna is back. So Anna is going to be telling John to go. Dillon is going to be saying no. Sheridan's going to wind up going because he's going to, he's going to reason it out that now that he has a piece of Kosh inside of him, Kosh will be with him when he goes and therefore he will be safe. Right. And he would have some sort of protection, which is opposite from when Kosh said, if you go to Zaladum, you will die. Like now he's going to be, or if you go to Zaladum, I won't be with you or something like that. And now that's not going to be, but I also said he'd probably get captured. And Jeff, here's where I get a little bit of credit for all of that. But although I do think a good portion of him was him trying to decide whether or not he was going to go. But I said this, he's going to be out of the game for a while.

[4:33] He was out of the game for a while. Yeah. Maybe not a long while, but a while. How about you, Jeff? What did you predict this episode was going to be about? I pretty much agreed with you. I was like, yeah, he's going to go to Zahadu. He's going to die. Like all these things are, you know, all this stuff's going to happen. My thought on his death, though, is it was going to be more of a metaphorical death. I actually referenced death of personality and all that stuff and how we've learned in this world there's other kind of deaths that can happen but i figured that like he'd die his metaphorical death he'd fall out of calm something like that you know captain captain where are you at and then all of a sudden like 40 shadow ships are gonna bust out of hyperspace around babylon five fade to black we'll see douglas netter's name and you and i'll be like what the just happened and that'll be how the episode ends probably yeah probably jeff that's what we predicted the first time around.

[5:22] You know what I'm really interested in, though? Probably the same thing I am. What we actually said the first time around. Yeah. You want to take a look at that? Yeah, let's do it. Let's take a look.

[5:31] Previously, on Babylon 5, for the first time, Zaha Doom. This episode to me felt very much like Best of Both Worlds Part 1. I felt like I got punched in the stomach. Like, literally, this episode took my emotions and went, feel this, whether you want to or not. Whether you believe this is a long-term death or not, doesn't matter. You're going to feel this. Really, this episode was some cool effects, but almost all talking. We've been specially trained to not only watch episodes that are all talking, but to deeply appreciate episodes that are all talking. Do we really know what the Shadow's motivations are? All we know is what they just told us. Exactly, which could be total horseback. Could be total garbage. They actually have some benevolent sides to them. That actually, I think, makes them a much tougher and a much more scary villain than just all-powerful evil. How they portray the Vorlons, are their means cool? Like genetic manipulation, introducing religion and tweaking society, is that okay? There's no binary. There's not a good guy, there's not a bad guy. There are people with motivation. No one on Babylon 5 is what they seem. Presuming that what they said was true, that also includes the shadows.

[6:56] I got questions about Sheridan's motivations. He says that we saw this future. So in his own mind, he decides when I was there, she told me not to go to Zaha Doom. So I probably didn't go to Zaha Doom. So if I do go to Zaha Doom, I can subvert the whole thing and change it all. There are a lot of wild, wild leaps in logic. The rules of time travel are always the same. As bad as it is, you still got to let it happen otherwise the nazis take over in revelations we learned about anna i never got to say goodbye he said goodbye to delen he looked in the camera and he said i love you goodbye i thought that was beautiful so sheridan jumps he listens to kosh and then i was like you know who else jumped and then came out different and changed that's gandalf and lord of the rings yeah you know why i feel like a moron do you remember the name of the place he was when he faced the balrog kazad doom and whatever this version is of sheridan in the future that we're seeing, is some resurrected form of Sheridan. And now, the conclusion. I feel like an idiot all the time, but apparently that's been a longstanding thing for me. The what? Feeling like an idiot. Oh, well. Sometimes you feel how you look, Jeff. Yeah, exactly. Oh, it took me a minute to get that.

[8:24] Oh, man, Jeff. Zaha Doomkada. I feel like we liked that episode. A little bit. Just a bit. A little bit. A little bit. I tell you, it's good in my memory. It's a thing I am curious. I said it in this, and it was in the back of my head thinking about it, but Sheridan's reasoning for going. I remember it's just like, that is a very thin, thin thread. I'll tell you, I feel like I remember just about everything in this episode. I really do. I'm interested to see the parts that I forgot or maybe the things I misremembered. I'm really interested to see the conversation between Justin and like that living room scene. Yeah. Um, I want to pay attention because the first time around, I, like I was watching it through a very skeptical eye.

[9:07] And now I don't need to, what he says is what I need to actually listen to and pay attention. So I'm, I'm eager to get into that. So let's do that. Jeff, why don't we get into it? Let's watch the episode. Hey, welcome everyone who's here. If this is your first time with us, welcome. Every episode is somebody's first. We're super glad you joined us for this one. What's going to happen is Brent and I are going to watch the episode right here with you. While we're watching it, we're going to talk about it, respond to things, react to things, postulate different things. If you're going to watch this on YouTube, well... Are watching this on YouTube, this is going to be edited, cut together and do a reaction style video. If you want to see the full video, no cuts, no edits, anything like that, you can get that on our Patreon page. Our Patreon page is patreon.com slash bad nerds. And if you're listening to us on an audio app of some sort, or maybe a video app, and you're only listening to the audio, well, guess what? You're going to hear the exact same thing because we're going to have those conversations in the middle of it. And we don't want you to miss out on that. Plus we'll have all the stuff on the back end so jeff let's get into a video watch it accessing file.