Bobby and Jens are joined by Producer Mark as we dive into the mailbag and answer your questions. This week we discuss if gifting a stage, or even a race is a good idea, the best and worst roadside encounters with fans, unpicking the complex international languages of the peloton and find out why Remco Evenepoel is so dominant!

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Okay, so

we're back with another mailbag episode.

2

this is one where, unfortunately,

you got me as well as the two lovely guys.

3

we're going to start with some questions

that you've sent in.

4

Remember, if you want to send a message

to the podcast, it's, @Oddtandem

5

anywhere on social media

or Oddtandem@Shockedgiraffe.com

6

to get them in the mailbag

and so when you send us an email

7

to the address is Tim Fariss He asks.

8

It seems like breathe, right.

9

Nasal strips are being used

more frequently again in time trials.

10

Is there a proven advantage

to using a brief write strip?

11

Is the allowed?

12

This is the idea that it allows

more oxygen intake.

13

And if there is an advantage,

why don't all riders use them?

14

I'll take this one.

15

This is kind of a funny story.

16

In my first grand

17

They were handing these out like at the

18

at the sign in, and I'm just like,

I'm going to start using one of those.

19

And then I saw Tony Rominger using it,

20

and I just had it on the whole entire

Vuelta that year.

21

And then I stopped using it in

most of the road races,

22

but it was part of my protocol for time

trials.

23

is it proven?

24

I never did any testing

to actually prove it,

25

but it was more of that mental,

what would you call it?

26

Maybe even a placebo.

27

That okay, I'm going to be able

to breathe a little bit better.

28

so yeah, I wish I could say that

29

there was something absolutely proven,

but I think it's just up to the riders.

30

I mean, Jensie

you and I have, pretty big schnozzes

31

and anything that'll help us

get a little bit more air in there.

32

could never hurt right?

33

Correct.

34

I never use them too often.

35

Or almost never, ever.

36

But people, if you look at pictures of me,

37

there's hardly ever a picture of me

breathing through my nose.

38

I always have to paint face

and my mouth open

39

like that to get enough air into my mouth.

40

So I was just basically breathing.

41

Breathing through my mouth.

42

I never needed, any nose extra pieces,

but that is just me and myself.

43

Yeah, you had a just a big old scoop

open there.

44

You should have been thinking

about how many.

45

What you were losing with your

with your trapper.

46

It is wide open, sucking down air.

47

I mean, this is one of the few things

48

where I've actually got

some kind of link to this.

49

I, you know,

50

I just swimming and I was a I played

like what you'd call a soccer quite a lot.

51

And I remember the 90s when I was growing

up, they were a really big thing.

52

And I broke my nose 6 or 7 times,

and I found that

53

all it did was just blocked one

half of my nose when I used it.

54

So it was the opposite for me.

55

But hey, if it works, it works, right?

56

Seven times.

57

yeah.

58

Were you bit of a brawler

up there in the UK or what?

59

I'm just really clumsy.

60

I like run into a basketball post

once, so.

61

Yeah,

like there's a whole load of stories.

62

okay, here's a

63

question from,

Vern from Charlotte, North Carolina.

64

So not far from you. Bobby.

65

good afternoon, gentleman,

40 year old longtime cyclist here.

66

I used to do the Hincapie spring training

series many years ago, back in the day.

67

I have a weird question for you gentlemen.

68

We all know that racers

have to stop mid-race for a nature break,

69

but have you ever witnessed a fan on the

side of the road having a nature break?

70

There never seems to be porta potties,

so I can only assume it happens.

71

I actually did see dead quite a few times.

72

also, I saw people,

73

smoking cigarettes

and smoking the other stuff as well

74

because don't forget a mountain like Alps,

75

it's super famous and they close it

76

at least one day, often two days

before for cars going up and down,

77

because there's really

all these camping cars

78

parked on each little square

inch of the road side.

79

So they go, look,

80

we stop at two days before,

if you want to go up, you have to walk.

81

So people start walking at 9 a.m.

82

by the time we come in at 5 p.m.

83

for the grand finale, they have been

out there in the burning sun for like six,

84

seven, eight hours doing nothing else

but like in case there are males standing.

85

there with free upper bodies.

86

They are fully sunburned,

fully drunk, fully stoned.

87

So yeah, of course I have seen them

doing all sorts of businesses.

88

I have to say I've never witnessed that.

89

I mean, I'm sure it happens,

90

but it kind of reminds or makes me

think about the Olympics this year.

91

You know, the final, the final circuit.

92

I mean, you know, these guys are drinking

all this carbohydrate.

93

They're trying to stay as hydrated

as possible.

94

I feel so sorry for those guys.

95

If they had to take a leak in that final,

you know, 70 K or whatever it was,

96

you know, those final three circuits.

97

Well, I mean, Nils Politt he stopped

in a cafe and got caught on camera.

98

So, you know, like

99

I mean, there is a way around it,

but it's not normally that civilized.

100

But, you know,

101

we have those green zones where you can

just dump all your trash nowadays.

102

I wonder if they have a circuit

like that again in the Olympics

103

or the World Championships,

if they're going to have a little pee

104

pee zone or something, you know,

where guys can just kind of pull in

105

to a little porta John

and and then get back out on the road.

106

But no, I, I've never witnessed

that to, to these extent.

107

I mean, yeah, sure.

108

There's a lot of drunk,

fans on the side of the road.

109

One caused a crash

in the tour of Spain yesterday.

110

I believe it's it's a it's actually a

miracle that it doesn't happen more often.

111

And I think the most famous one

was with Giuseppe Guarini going up out

112

to was and and the little photographer

kid stuck, you know,

113

got out in the middle of the road

and he wound up just T-boned in him.

114

And luckily, luckily,

luckily he went on to win the stage

115

and, you know,

had no ill feelings toward this kid.

116

But could you imagine if that happened?

117

And then he got passed

right at the end by,

118

you know, wound up second or third place?

119

That would have been terrible. So,

120

you know,

121

stick to the nature break, you know,

keep that off to the side behind a tree

122

and then give the riders a little bit

more room on the road to, to do their job.

123

I was just going to ask on on that the,

the crowds.

124

When you're going up a mountain,

does it matter

125

which group you are in the road

as to how rowdy they are?

126

Because obviously if you're at the front

that, you know,

127

that's two people have come to see,

you know, more often than not.

128

But we see these videos of the people

at the back doing wheelies and stuff.

129

Does it get more raucous at the front

or at the back?

130

I would say cycling fans on general,

131

where like, there's no violence,

there's no hatred in between them.

132

The shared experience

you shared, a love for cycling.

133

And,

as far as I'm concerned, the really fair.

134

So it doesn't matter if in tour de France,

if you're French and American

135

or German rider they cheer you on

if you're going for the win.

136

Yes, they might be a little more excited

because you're the first rider DC,

137

but they also give you a lot of cheering

if you're positioned 50 or 170.

138

Yeah, yeah.

139

I have, two friends, Eric and Carrie,

who actually went over to the tour

140

and got all dressed up

and was part of that

141

caravan of people on the side,

you know, camped out for a couple days.

142

You know, he had like a wrestler mask on.

143

And he was a very, buff

kind of tattooed guy.

144

So he had like a tiny Speedo

and they filmed that.

145

And I was like, man, that's a party up

there.

146

And I would like to go and experience

that one day.

147

You know, I'm, I know I'm getting older.

148

I'm not going to have the little,

Boris outfit on or showing my buttocks,

149

running alongside the group, but

150

I would say they're extremely supportive

151

and almost frantic for the lead riders.

152

And then they're very,

153

very supportive in a different way

to the riders that are further back.

154

You know, they're handing them food,

they're giving them pushes up the road.

155

it's a it's a pretty cool atmosphere.

156

But there is nothing like being in that

front.

157

And I wasn't in the front very often.

158

But going through

that tiny corridor of road,

159

you couldn't even hear yourself think.

160

You know,

we didn't have race radios back then,

161

but if somebody was saying

something over the race radio, you would

162

never have even been able to hear it

because it's that loud and you get done

163

or you get out of that

that zone where there's so many people

164

or into the barriers

and your ears are ringing

165

and it feels it's

a really weird, sensation.

166

I think maybe we need an old tandem trip

to a race to to experience it.

167

there's a message here from,

Merida Feria.

168

Who says, this is the best description

of the race I've ever heard.

169

This year in the tour de France.

170

Hommes Sans Zwift.

171

so the male version.

172

a big talking point was the gravel stage

And there's been one in the Vuelta

173

as well.

174

the main thing I've heard, pros say,

175

is that they hated to ride it,

but would have loved to watch it,

176

or they loved watching it,

but glad they weren't riding.

177

I want to hear Bobby and Jens's

biggest gaps.

178

in terms of the kind of race

they'd hate racing themselves,

179

but absolutely love

watching for entertainment reasons.

180

Oh, for me, that's simple.

181

Anything with cobblestones,

anything with cobblestones.

182

I mean, Paris-Roubaix,

183

there would have to be an

184

absolute, like nuclear war

for me to miss that on TV.

185

Like that is, I plan out that entire day.

186

I get my snacks, I get my beers,

187

and I am just in it from kilometer zero

if possible.

188

but would

I want to ride those cobblestones?

189

No, because, you know,

we had Sylvain Dillier on recently

190

and he was talking about the

the blisters that he had on his hands.

191

And you hear, you know, the horror stories

about what these riders

192

have to deal with after, you know, doing

Roubaix, either the men or the female.

193

So as much as I love watching it,

194

no, I think, I made the right decision

staying out of that race.

195

I would pick the same the classics, the

cobbles, but something different as well.

196

The Madison at the World Championships

or the Olympics.

197

It looks like absolute carnage,

but I love watching it.

198

But it's so hard to keep control

from my quiet TV seat.

199

Imagine you're in the race.

200

Your heart beats up to your 200

201

heart rate doing 50 miles an hour

and you go, where's my teammate again?

202

He's over there. So I gotta go up and down

and seeing him in.

203

It's absolutely fascinating

how that works. But.

204

So yeah, I love watching death.

205

but I'm happy I'm not racing that.

206

Yeah, I you know what? I totally agree.

207

That is such a cool event,

but I cannot understand

208

how you can sling your teammate in who's

going much slower than you

209

in the middle of the field

without crashing.

210

Like everybody has to have their head

on a swivel at all times.

211

And, you know, we saw a couple

little crashes and a couple little bumps,

212

you know, a couple rubs, but no thank you.

213

Absolutely no thank you.

214

Yeah, I'm with you on both of those.

215

I love both of them.

216

And you know, Covid was obviously a

really strange thing for a lot of people.

217

And there were different moments

of disappointment.

218

But I remember turning to my girlfriend

and saying

219

that they cancelled Paris-Roubaix.

220

And she was like, oh. And I was like,

no, no, you don't understand.

221

This has been good.

222

Like the wars didn't stop this.

223

This is this is just stuff.

224

It's the worst day of Covid.

225

Honestly, the whole thing, something else

that's been related to, recent events,

226

a man who was the star of the Olympics,

in many ways.

227

Remco.

228

he came through, he dominated.

229

He got two gold medals.

230

Paul Newman. Not that Paul Newman.

231

how can Remco be that strong at 134

pounds?

232

This is particularly talking

about the time trials.

233

It's just after he won that this came in.

234

Well he did something right.

235

Because he changed as a rider after that

236

crash in in pay Basque.

237

we saw it in the Dauphiné.

238

We saw it in the tour.

239

people have come on our podcast

and told us

240

how more relaxed he is.

241

Strength is one thing,

but momentum is another.

242

And he came out of the tour winning,

having won a stage.

243

Him getting third overall

and then somehow being able to recover

244

and just had the form of his life

at the right time.

245

I think the thing that makes him

so dangerous in time trials is that he

246

doesn't have to, tweak his body to be

in the most aerodynamic position.

247

When we had Josh Tarling on,

248

he was telling us

that he needs more massage

249

and physio work on his upper body

and his arms than his legs,

250

because he's trying

to get into that Remco position.

251

So I don't know.

252

But Jens you know,

you remember what it felt like

253

when you came out of the tour.

254

You were either flying or dying, right?

255

Like you just had another gear.

256

And it's it's

a very fragile switch between on and off

257

after the tour de France.

258

And somehow he was able to keep his on

and he actually seemed

259

to be even stronger in the Olympics

than he was in the tour de France.

260

So, yeah, I will admit it.

261

I think I've said it on this podcast

before.

262

I was not the biggest Remco Evenepoel fan,

263

but he has definitely changed me.

264

Like, I am definitely rooting for him

a lot more than than I used to.

265

he did something

266

right and I hope he continues

to do those things right.

267

And you know,

maybe I'll get a Remco Evenepoel.

268

fan club shirt to wear on the podcast.

269

I was going to say tattoo.

270

Yeah.

271

That, no tattoo. No.

272

I was just going to say just quickly on

that is you were a time trialist,

273

Jens you’ve ridden in time trials

to a high level like there's

274

a lot about his position

and the lack of power.

275

I just think it was

what Paul was getting at.

276

it's not just power

and power to weight, is it?

277

It's. It's your cDA, isn't it?

278

That's the thing that defines it.

279

So that's part of the reason he's

so quick.

280

Right.

281

Well, I guess also, Bobby,

cement for numbers and science.

282

But, just to put it

like an easy way to understand

283

the Remco is lighter but also shorter.

284

So if he sits on a bike,

he creates a lot less air resistance

285

because the surface of Remco

and his bike facing the wind is a lot

286

smaller than the surface of,

Ganna with 1m 90 or Josh Tarling.

287

So if the all three or let's say

288

you're styling and Remco

trying to do 50 miles an hour,

289

right, the same speed

Josh Tarling would need to push 415W.

290

Maybe in Remco only 315.

291

So maybe Remco cannot produce 700W

for 20 minutes.

292

But he never needs to do that

because he creates less,

293

less, less air resistance.

294

So that's an advantage.

295

And when it comes to the Olympic road

race, it wasn't like a sprint race.

296

It wasn't a classic three.

297

It was just a race of attrition.

298

And his smaller

and more narrow and lighter body carries

299

also less weight around.

300

So he has less muscles he needs to supply

with oxygen, water and energy.

301

Then a big and taller and stronger rider.

302

So Remco would probably never win a race

that's 50km long or 35 miles,

303

because he would be too small

and it would be like too broad,

304

big guys winning that race.

305

But since cycling is such a long race

and me mainly made for endurance, Remco

306

smaller and lighter body doesn't give him

a disadvantage really at all.

307

It's the same

308

like Tom Pidcock in the mountain

bike races, right.

309

Like he is a small dude.

310

You know, we've had, you know, I've seen

interviews with him where I'm just like,

311

he looks like a 12 year old little kid,

but, like, he's this monster on a bike.

312

So, you know,

that's the greatest thing about cycling.

313

And you'll see this on any group ride that

314

there's no perfect phenotype of of body.

315

Right?

316

Like you got big,

317

you got small, you got in the middle,

you got lean, you got muscular, you got,

318

you know, maybe a little bit more fat,

but can still,

319

you know, win races compared to,

you know, super, super skinny people.

320

So yeah, it's interesting.

321

And go back and listen to our podcast

that we had, what was it?

322

One of our first ones

with Robbie Ketchell.

323

And he spoke a lot about CDA

and the importance of it

324

and CDA meaning

coefficient of aerodynamic drag

325

or coefficient,

the drag aerodynamic to get the CDA

326

amazing.

327

And I was just one last follow up on that.

328

I mean, there aren't many time trialists

at the moment that have Remco body type.

329

Is that a case of he's kind of broken

a barrier down for a lot of people now,

330

and maybe some people that would go, I'm

331

not the right shape to do time trial

and they might consider it.

332

Or is that just that he's he's

that much better and he's,

333

you know, changed it

because he's exceptional as a rider.

334

We can't forget about Jonas Vingegaard

in the tour de France two years ago.

335

Yeah, I mean, he's a very small guy

and he produced some amazing power.

336

But when I heard his post-race interview,

he said that

337

his pacing strategy was 360W

and he was going 380.

338

That doesn't sound like much.

339

When we had Josh Tarling

saying that he's shooting for 480.

340

So, you know, kind of back to his point.

341

You know, it doesn't matter.

342

The power.

343

It's a combination of the CDA,

344

the power, the form, the morale, the

the aerodynamics that they have.

345

And I don't think there is a single

big GC guy

346

that hasn't been spending a lot of time

in the wind tunnel.

347

you know, we saw with, with,

348

Sepp

Kuss in the, in the Vuelta time trial.

349

He needs to get in, the wind tunnel

a little bit.

350

He needs if he wants to,

351

you know, really guarantee that he's

going to be a year in, year out GC guy.

352

He can't be losing,

you know, over a minute

353

in a seven kilometer

time trial to the favorites.

354

There is a

355

question about Sepp coming up a bit later

on, but we'll leave that for a moment.

356

this came from Scott on our Patreon page.

357

So thanks, Scott, for that.

358

in the last episode,

so this will be the last mailbag episode

359

the two of you discussed being on

the same team and growing your friendship.

360

What was it like being friends

but on different teams?

361

Did you find yourself gravitating towards

each other in the peloton

362

when not required to do teamwork?

363

Would you talk smack

about the opposing team or their bikes?

364

Or how their kit looks?

365

Or you're strictly on team only lockdown?

366

we definitely gravitated

towards each other, that's for sure.

367

And I think we

we basically we're the same age,

368

we married with kids,

so we talk a lot about kids.

369

How they were little angels and hell

raisers within one minute of time.

370

And, how do we deal with, you know,

371

the, the challenges of being an athlete

and, like,

372

you know, as a pro cyclist,

you should ride your bike.

373

If you cannot do that,

you should lay down.

374

If you cannot lay down, you should sit.

375

If you cannot sit,

376

you should be standing and walking

or running should be the last thing.

377

But as soon as I would come home

and and my my cleats would make this

378

typical click, click, click noise

to make when they hit a hard surface

379

when I walked towards the garage

to put my bike away,

380

the kids would come running

out of the house.

381

Dad, dad, dad, let's go to the zoo.

382

Dad, let's go and get ice cream.

383

And I cannot have ice cream.

384

I can have a water

because ice cream is just fat and sugar,

385

so it's not good for me.

386

So you know how to do to

to deal with this daily challenges.

387

There was a lot of talks of Bobby and I.

388

We had

389

I don't think Bobby ever talked much about

cars or expensive watches, didn't we?

390

No, no we didn't, we didn't.

391

But you know, so from those two years

together at Credit Agricole

392

and then I left and I went to German team

Telecom.

393

Like, my buddy is a German and he's

one of the best riders on the planet.

394

And he was never on Team Telecom.

395

So that was always kind of

ironic and funny.

396

And we we talk about that a lot.

397

and then of course, at CSC

we were best of friends.

398

But when I, switch teams

and then switch teams like so we,

399

we rode I worked for

400

CSC Saxo Bank and Jens was a rider,

and then he left to go

401

to, Leopard Trek and I went to Sky.

402

we always had this, yearly

kind of get together after Pyrenees

403

where he would come up to my house,

we'd go out for Mexican food,

404

we'd come back up, have some Coronas,

and just relax a little bit.

405

He'd go on

some of those geocaching things.

406

Do you still do that geocaching?

407

Absolutely.

408

We up to 2,300 found caches right now.

409

You know when when he told me

410

like after the Mexican that, hey,

there is a little cache around the corner.

411

And then he goes and gets it

and he holds it up.

412

I have a picture of it and I'm just like,

that's so dumb.

413

Like, why?

414

And he, he, he absolutely loved it.

415

But that that was

where it was kind of tricky.

416

because I was working for another team

417

and he was writing for another team,

and I basically said, you know, screw it.

418

If I get in trouble

for hanging out with my best buddy,

419

even though he's not on my team,

I'll take the consequences.

420

That was what I was going to ask on that.

421

You know, you're both big fans.

422

You know, we spend most of the week

talking about cycling in one form

423

or another.

424

Like, did you find it difficult

to not talk about cycling, or was it

425

just a, you know,

you're so in it at that time,

426

any any conversation away from

the sport was a relief.

427

I think we had a good balanced

year. Right.

428

We we talked about cycling and gears

429

and gear ratios

and what are the percentage diets,

430

how we can increase

our performance was better training.

431

But I don't I but we also talked about

hey, where you go on holiday.

432

I never heard of that.

433

Where is that? How is it over there.

434

Yeah.

435

And if if you don't know Jens, he's

a walking encyclopedia.

436

So he knows so much about Europe,

especially about Germany.

437

about everything that there.

438

You didn't really have to talk

about cycling too often.

439

And, you know,

one thing that I tried to talk to him

440

about that

he never listened to was, you know,

441

I had this little Swiss ball and I do my,

my core work on the Swiss ball.

442

And I was always stretching.

443

I always had a blanket down on the ground.

444

And, you know, he

he would always look down at me

445

when I was on the ground and be like,

oh, I need to start that.

446

I need to start that.

447

And he, he, I got, I saw something

448

that he was at a training camp

and he was actually participating

449

in these stretching,

stretching, core exercises.

450

And I was like, you son of a gun.

451

Like, we could have been doing that

the whole time.

452

And now that I leave you

all of a sudden of this, this, this,

453

core routine

specialist, I was like, what a faker.

454

Well, I lasted about three and a half days

with high school.

455

I was watching my camera, just,

you know, social media.

456

But I remember Bobby, one time,

457

I believe two of Germany, we,

riding through Germany.

458

And I point out, hey,

you see that big castle up there?

459

That is where Martin Luther,

not Martin Luther King,

460

but Martin Luther was a hold

almost hostage

461

to protect himself,

from getting killed by the church.

462

Anyway, was in two years time.

463

Martin Luther

464

translated the Bible from Latin language

into German, the way we speak it.

465

And by the way, he created the first basic

rules of the German we speak today.

466

And you went, wow, awesome.

So much history.

467

We ran the race and you ready?

468

Wow, how cool is that?

469

Language was created

on that castle up there.

470

It wasn't like we were like in the car.

471

In the bus before or after.

472

Like you're giving us this whole spiel

like when we're, like,

473

going at 45 k an hour, I was like,

okay, man, I that's really cool.

474

But, you know,

we got a race to think about here.

475

So this is what I love

about these podcasts, these mailbag ones.

476

You know, Scott sent a message and he was

expecting you to be talking smack about.

477

And you're actually talking about Martin

Luther,

478

the reformation of the German church

in the middle of a race.

479

Brilliant. Yes.

And then the race. Absolutely.

480

you mentioned a little bit about language

there.

481

Elly Avilla on Facebook,

she says, languages in the tour.

482

Does everyone speak

more than one language?

483

If someone doesn't speak

a certain language,

484

are they less likely to be signed

by certain teams?

485

So if you're if you don't speak French,

486

will you not get signed by someone to add

you to,

487

and what a memorable moments

you've had with fans

488

on the course as a rider

on, spectator positive or negative?

489

I, I remember I don't think

490

it's like this anymore, but it's on

so many French teams and Spanish teams.

491

They only spoke French or Spanish now.

492

I mean, you could have a full on

conversation with Roman Bardet in English,

493

you know, Matteo

Jorgenson speaks French, Spanish,

494

obviously English, like a lot of riders

seem to be

495

by tri quad

lingual now, like back in the day,

496

the only riders that spoke multiple

languages were, you know, us knuckleheads.

497

And then especially the Swiss guys,

you know, they would speak 4 or 5,

498

six languages. It was pretty impressive.

499

I don't know what it's like anymore,

500

but I get the feeling

that English is the big one.

501

And I know that

502

French teams would sign

503

somebody that doesn't speak French,

but they would, motivate them

504

to take little linguistic classes

in the off season because, like,

505

you know, that's a hard language to learn

when you're especially

506

when you're an American.

507

For me,

at least with the accents and stuff.

508

But I don't know.

What do you think, Jensie?

509

I mean, you're around the sport,

510

you know, boots on the ground with these

guys a lot more than than I am these days.

511

Well, let's start.

512

my my first, big team was a gun,

513

which and later became

tried out in court and said, yep. Yes.

514

We sign you.

515

I only had a one year deal,

516

but and we sign you,

we want you to move to France to be

517

part of our culture, learn our language

and be closer to the team.

518

So I would have no, a license at all

to live in Germany or anywhere.

519

I said, no, we want you in France

to learn our language, be

520

part of our culture

that has changed a lot.

521

And Bobby, you’re right

English is the main language

522

because everybody understands.

523

also in our early years,

524

you know, if you were a British

or an American cyclist, you were exotic.

525

You were like,

wow, one of the few, you know,

526

even a Swedish rider was,

oh, wow, a Swedish rider,

527

you know, most of the peloton was Spanish,

Italian or France.

528

Right. Tour de France.

529

Back in the 80s, 100 French riders

and a few foreigners.

530

death has changed a lot now.

531

We had riders from Australia, Japan,

Africa.

532

gimme, you know, open door.

533

We open to pass for African cycling.

534

Even more so, being exotic.

535

It's normal these days, right?

536

It's tour Fong probably, you know, 20, 30,

maybe 20 nations starting there.

537

so English is definitely, the language.

538

Also, in my first 1 or 2 years of cycling,

only French

539

was the official, cycling language.

540

Then later he changed it to English.

541

So you could also do some UCI test

and UCI.

542

Let's say

543

if you want to become a commissaire,

you could do all that in English as well.

544

So yes, it is more open

545

and everybody speaks probably.

546

Yeah, two languages

I would say at least. Yes.

547

And there's multiple multiple.

548

to the second part of your question

or her question,

549

you know, about good experiences

and bad experiences with fans?

550

there were there were multitudes,

551

you know, thousands either

each way, I think.

552

But one really sticks out to me

was the year,

553

it was the 1998 tour de France,

and we were going up the Madeleine

554

and Pantani and Ullrich were up the road.

555

My I was sitting in second position

at that time.

556

I wound up third and they just went on

a totally different speed than me.

557

So I'm at the top of the Madeleine

558

didn't really know what a gram of

carbohydrate was back then, so I'm bonking

559

right at the top and I'm like, man,

I'm not going to be able to make this.

560

And I come around the corner and I kid

561

you not, there was an angel,

562

an angel with a can of Coke

or a bottle of Coke.

563

You know,

where you could twist off the top and

564

I'm like, am I seeing this?

565

Am I hallucinating?

566

Like, this is an angel

sitting there with the coke.

567

So I grabbed the coke and I went back

and watched the the footage of the race.

568

And it was an angel.

569

It was,

specialized was doing some publicity

570

and she was kind of like, she

she just had her, like, her angel wings.

571

And, you know, she gave me that coke.

572

So that was like my best memory

because it absolutely saved me.

573

and then the one of the worst memories

574

was, I think it was Tour of Germany,

575

and we were at the start line, and,

you know, these days were different.

576

And I remember Jens,

you were in the yellow jersey

577

and there was a German guy

and just within earshot of me,

578

he was he

he was saying bad things about you, like,

579

you know, traitor

because you were on a Danish team

580

and you were being,

you know, winning the tour of Germany.

581

And I remember I turned around

and I got so mad at this person like,

582

you know, this guy does everything,

and he is one of the best German riders.

583

And you, you

you deserve more respect than that.

584

So those are my two little positive

and negatives.

585

And I'm sure I have a lot more.

586

But those were the ones

that came up to the top of my head.

587

When you ask that question.

588

and talk about

589

languages, people speak 2 or 3 languages,

but believe me,

590

we can swear

at least in 15 languages at one time.

591

Honestly,

I had a puncture on my mountain bike.

592

Like one of these terrible,

stupid, cold, rainy November days.

593

I was out a mountain

bike rain. Wet, muddy.

594

I called fingers, trying to change a tire.

595

I kind of like twisted my fingers,

I was hurting, I was swearing,

596

so colorful in this forest

that the trees were blushing.

597

The trees were turning away from me.

598

I was swearing in Japanese,

Russian, Italian, French,

599

Spanish, German, British or English words.

600

It was fantastic.

601

I felt so much better after that.

602

So swearing is our strength.

603

We probably know at least 50 languages.

604

We can swear in.

605

Okay, so like we've spoken

about the lingua franca, been English.

606

It used to be French or Spanish, you know.

607

Is there a lingua franca, a common,

608

most commonly used language

for swearing in the peloton?

609

Is that one that everyone goes to?

610

Because the words are really good,

they really get the emotion across.

611

But I believe Italian, it's

probably up there.

612

Oh yeah. Yeah, we can.

613

Unfortunately, we cannot see the words,

you know, important.

614

And we don't even know what they mean,

you know.

615

So like when you'd say them thinking

that, hey,

616

I'm just going to fit in

and this guy's going to be like, you know.

617

No, that I'm not happy with him.

618

he look at me, like, shocked

that I said that.

619

I'm like, you guys say it all

the time. Why can't I see?

620

But we never really understood.

621

Oh, no, no, no,

you can't say that if you squint. Italian.

622

Very important.

623

Keep your hands like this.

You have to talk like this.

624

And really fast.

625

That is typical Italian swearing.

626

your your best and worst experience.

627

But obviously with a spectator lens,

you got a bike of one.

628

So that must have been a pretty good one.

629

But you know,

you got to have a good and bad memories.

630

I got a good memory. Yes.

631

I, you know, opposite to Bobby.

632

Bobby was racing Alpe D’huez.

633

I was always dropped. Right.

634

My job was the valley before to,

635

you know, get Carlos Sastre

and the Schleck brothers into Alpe D’huez.

636

That I was dropped. So I'm all by myself.

637

Drop from the first group

not caught by the peloton yet.

638

So I'm all by myself,

you know, looking down,

639

trying to see if a little bit of energy.

640

Because a few more days suddenly.

641

Don't laugh

too early, don't laugh too early.

642

Suddenly I hear a voice Jens, I love you,

I want your, baby.

643

And I'm looking up.

644

It's a 55 year old man with a huge belly

like this little spandex

645

jersey

almost exploding like big black beard,

646

you know, like some 50 plus years old

yelling at me on top of his lungs.

647

Yeah.

648

And so I love you. I want you, baby.

649

So I had to laugh.

650

I had to laugh with him.

651

and I was like, well, worst

experience was also on Alpe D’huez

652

when we had an individual time

trial up there.

653

It hilltop time trial.

654

And just a day before,

655

I was in a breakaway, they called me back

656

because Ullrich had attacked, and, my team

657

called me back, said, yeah,

we need you to come back or he's gone.

658

We got not enough man here.

659

We need you in the peloton

660

help chasing for Ivan Bassol,

who was second at the time.

661

Right. And all he was about to pass him.

662

So I stopped on the road side, waited

for the peloton and, helped to repack.

663

And somehow it became almost a misogynist

standing with German TV,

664

did a few just unlucky words,

and then it ignited itself

665

the next day on the individual time trial,

I heard every bad word, every animal

666

name, rat being almost the nicest one,

you can ever imagine.

667

I actually, every time I saw a fan,

like getting one step on the road,

668

I like, okay, if he hits me,

how do I react on this?

669

If he hits me, do I hit him back

or I just ignore to keep racing.

670

So I was so tensed up the entire

671

16 17km up there because I expected

672

somebody is going to hit me in the face

any moment of to.

673

That was by far the worst

and the only time really

674

I experienced so much hatred by people.

675

I remember that I was at the truck,

because I went before you.

676

Because that was

when I had my broken wrist.

677

And you came to the truck

after the time trial,

678

and you were just ranting like

you were so disappointed in these people,

679

and most of them were Germans

that were yelling these things at you.

680

And and you just went on this rant

that I think was caught on.

681

Remember

we had the, high on crew for overcoming,

682

so yeah,

a lot of that was was caught on film

683

and I was just like,

oh man, stay out of his way.

684

But it looked like you could have gone

685

down to the bottom and done

another time trial.

686

You were like so amped up after that.

687

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

688

I was a lot of anger

and disappointment in me on that day. Yep.

689

Okay, so we've got, a message here

from Trudy Luise

690

she sent this via Facebook,

and she was at the center.

691

Or she was witness to one of the greatest

tour de France moments ever.

692

She said I was living in France

and was on the show.

693

That is a it's a witness.

694

Le Monde come from behind to beat Fignon.

695

To me, this is bike racing at its best.

696

But you never say die

and you fight to the bitter end.

697

So there's a two part question

that follows on from this.

698

Firstly, why did the format change?

699

So the last day is nothing more

than a glorified parade lap for the GC.

700

Obviously excluding this year.

701

I grew up following cycling

during what I would call the glory days

702

and the thought of gifting a stage

703

to say thank you to your teammate

I don't think would ever have happened.

704

So why is it considered racing

when the strongest rider

705

doesn't win a stage,

or perhaps even the race?

706

Does the winner not feel

this is a hollow victory of sorts?

707

Specific.

708

I'm thinking about last year's Evo Vuelta

amorphous up Kuss and I give him kudos.

709

But if his teammates hadn't,

been told to back off,

710

essentially he wouldn't have won

popular does not mean best

711

fighting talk.

712

What do you say, man?

713

We have to,

urge our listeners and viewers to send in

714

some shorter questions because though

there was a quite a few things there,

715

so gifting a stage,

I was never in that situation.

716

I don't know if I would have wanted to,

but I do remember where

717

exactly where I was in 1989

when when Greg LeMond won that time trial.

718

it ignited something in me.

719

but that was they,

720

you know, they didn't have the time

trial is the last stage very much.

721

You know, it is that procession.

722

You know, the race is over.

723

It kind of gives the a reward

to the people that finish the tour de

724

France, that they,

you know, have a beautiful run into Paris.

725

And then once you get into Paris,

then it's full gas.

726

And, you know, as we saw in the Olympics

this year,

727

you know, Paris

ain't a bad place to finish a bike race.

728

It's not a bad place to do anything

really.

729

Right.

730

So, I don't

731

I'm not

732

a big fan of, time trial on the last day.

733

the the tour of Spain this year is

going to end with a time trial.

734

It started with a time trial.

It's going to end with a time trial?

735

Yeah.

736

You know, I think it's better for the fans

to have that party atmosphere,

737

that celebratory vibe at the end of a race

instead of

738

just watching a bunch of guys come through

with like, spaceballs helmets on.

739

but yeah, the gifting a stage thing,

740

like I said, I never did it myself.

741

But, when Lance Armstrong gifted

Marco Pantani the win up on top of Alp

742

d’Huez, on, Mount Ventoux

one of the years that he won,

743

I was just like, I wonder what like,

744

you know, Marco felt about that, you know.

745

Or why why Lance did that.

746

but if it's a teammate,

747

up to as with with he know in LeMond,

748

you know, it looked at it look like,

you know,

749

Bernard Hinault was going to gift

Greg LeMond the win.

750

And then at the last second,

he kind of pushed his pushed his bike,

751

you know, just one inch ahead of

of Greg's.

752

And I don't know, I guess when when you're

at that level, it doesn't really matter.

753

But not not a big fan of the gifting

the stage thing.

754

But to defend Sepp Kuss, I don't think

anybody gifted anything to him

755

because they attacked him

on that final uphill stage.

756

And and he held on.

757

He limited his losses.

758

He may not have been in that position,

of having that advance.

759

You know, when he got into that breakaway,

because they were looking at Jonas

760

and Primoz was a little bit too much,

761

but they did not seem

like they were slowing down.

762

You know, that last day.

763

Yeah, I think they they said, okay,

we got a lot of bad press.

764

This isn't isn't good.

765

But, you know, Sepp sacrificed

so much for those two guys

766

that I was actually sickened

when they just kept going full gas.

767

and then

768

luckily came to their senses

the next day and and didn't attack them.

769

But I don't think they

they really gifted him much.

770

What do you think he ends.

771

Well, I,

I totally agree with all you said.

772

And I could talk an hour about all this.

773

Let's start with the easy part

the TTs? Yes.

774

Yesterday. Dramatic.

775

but it Grand tour is 21 stages.

776

So if the last day is just a parade,

777

which then ends up in a really tough, hard

sprint, right?

778

The first part is parade

taking pictures, talking to France.

779

Second half of the race on the last day is

780

actually a really hard race

for the sprinters as well.

781

people had 20 days, 20 stages

782

to fight out the, classement

783

So they don't need 21 days

like the result is the same.

784

They had 20 days time to make sure

the best is in the front,

785

so give them that easy.

786

They still try to remember

my days as a rider.

787

I was so grateful

788

and thankful for this parade

and a lot of respect from the spectators.

789

They would be there in Paris on the Champs

Elysées to see this.

790

It was a really good, great magic moment

791

and I was grateful to experience

that instead of being, you know, spread,

792

covered out of breath with that helmet on

and just shooting down the road.

793

and most people kind of want it anyway.

794

So out of 160,

176 riders to start in the Grand Tour,

795

maybe six can win

and another ten go for GC.

796

And the rest you go,

797

it's just another day.

798

I need to go to the finish line.

799

So, I think every 20 days, every sorry.

800

Every 20 years, every 15 years,

you can change it up with.

801

But it should stay the parade.

802

I support that.

803

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong.

804

It's just my opinion,

about gifting a stage.

805

just an example out of my own experience.

806

Giro d’Italia,

we have Ivan Basso in lead jersey.

807

you're a one, 2 or 3 stages.

808

and I think we were leading

the team GC as well.

809

So then Bjarne Riis, my sport

director back then in CSC days

810

comes on and goes, hey, actually,

we want everybody.

811

stay with Ivan.

812

He's in the leaders jersey, except for us.

813

If he has to break ten riders or more,

you go

814

and you'll be policing to breakaway.

815

So in case something goes bad on the last

816

mountain, you can always drop back

and help our leader.

817

Ok chef!

818

So I catch the break twelve riders

as I said, hey listen guys,

819

I'm just here to watch this,

I cannot work.

820

I got my captain and friend and teammate

back there in the lead jersey.

821

Do you never give me any shit?

822

You never give me any stress.

823

I said, look, I cannot work

halfway to the true to stage.

824

I go, hey, Bjarne

how does it work back there?

825

Could I maybe start turning a little bit

so I would earn the right to go

826

for the finish, to go for the win?

827

Bjarne goes

na, you ust sit there and wait.

828

They start attacking each other.

829

I always follow the fastest group.

The fastest group.

830

So it goes down to six riders

to five for us, I say Bjarne,

831

can I start working to earn the right

to go for a stage win?

832

No we aren't. I told you to sit.

833

In the end, we have two riders

left, manual grata and myself

834

and and grata was back

done with quickstep.

835

He had, Bertini down in a world champion

836

jersey, sacrificed himself for great.

837

And another 1 or 2 riders

838

do you all were just killing themselves

to make the race harder.

839

So Gárate

the best climber, could win the stage.

840

So it's Garate and myself

841

and I go, hey, Manuel, listen,

I cannot win this.

842

You win. It's your stage.

843

It's only three minutes to go to, to go.

844

You win this one.

I will not sprint for this one.

845

And more or less. Right.

846

Then Bjarne comes on goes Jens.

847

Everything's under control in the peloton.

848

You can go for the win.

849

And I said, honest, I cannot win.

850

I just gave him my word that I will not

sprint and I don't deserve it.

851

So great to didn't really believe it

until he crossed the line

852

that I actually gave it to him,

and I made sure he feel safe.

853

So I left him 50m out so he would be safe.

854

That I'm not gonna out sprint him.

855

And I believe, Juan Manuel,

he still talks about today,

856

talks about his body right now

with, Ineos Grenadiers

857

and a German friend of mine, Andreas

Klier For my rider.

858

He said, yeah, yeah,

859

like whatever, once a month

or so he mentioned you and that win,

860

that he's still so flattened

and so impressed that you gave it to him.

861

and also could have won the stage.

862

He has, of course, but

can I steal the candy from a small kid?

863

He has, of course,

but it just don't do that.

864

Can I steal the purse of an old lady, yes,

of course, but you just don't do that.

865

And if you don't work for 200km,

you cannot outsprint the poor fellow.

866

Next with you, who worked for 20km.

867

So I didn't really feel

like giving away to stage.

868

I just showed respect to the men

or the teams doing the work.

869

So yeah, I think it's okay

every now and then, just out of respect.

870

and for step cars, Bobby, I agree 50%.

871

they did not wait for Sepp

872

Kuss last year in the Vuelta

until the last.

873

Like you said, you realize

you got so much bad press, so much stress.

874

Even I was quite vocal and had my opinion.

875

Outlook.

876

This is just wrong.

877

Primoz Roglic

that year won the Giro d’Italia.

878

Not 100% because.

879

But a large part of it was Sepp

Kuss being there,

880

being a loyal teammate

and saving his ass again.

881

And again.

882

Jonas Vingegaard won the tour de France

that year,

883

also because Sepp Kuss

was there saving his ass again and again.

884

So I feel you.

885

You two are no humans,

just give the man some respect.

886

He sacrificed three years of his life

serving you, making you win the big races.

887

So this would be the moment to go.

888

Hey, sir, we are so happy.

889

Did you have a chance to win this one?

Of course.

890

This is for you.

891

So it took a big

no from the probably higher ups

892

to tell them to to stop chasing Sepp Kuss,

893

So they didn't

really want to give it to him.

894

But the team decided, stop this.

895

This is for Sepp Kuss

and we got to make sure he wins.

896

I don't think the other two

were too happy about it,

897

and much Primoz is

not in the team anymore. So,

898

I guess

they didn't really give it to him.

899

He really had to work hard for it.

900

I heard I was in that race in the Giro

901

when, when this happened with the ends

and we could hear it on the radio,

902

we could hear the direct order

from Bjarne - Jens you win.

903

No, Bjarne I'm not.

904

And cross the finish line,

905

you know, behind you

guys, we're in the peloton

906

and I don't think I've ever been

more proud to call you my friend.

907

Then after that,

when I saw you in the bus,

908

I remember giving you the biggest hug.

909

And I was just like,

I don't know if I could have done that.

910

in that situation, I wasn't as prolific

of a winner as you were, but I.

911

I was so proud.

912

Call you a friend after that stage for

913

for the person that you were for the, the

914

the morals that you had,

concerning that situation.

915

And, I'm glad he tells that story

because it's a story

916

worth being told over and over.

917

Thank you.

918

Bobby.

919

Oh. It's lovely.

920

just, one final point.

921

You sort of mentioned the.

922

Neither of you would be particularly

a fan of coming in for a time trial into,

923

Paris for that final stage,

924

something that was mooted

quite a lot during the Olympics.

925

How would you feel if that finishing

circuit was the final stage of the tour?

926

it would be impossible,

927

that that would be no fun at all.

928

I think they keep it

the way that they've had

929

it, the way

that it's always been a sprinter stage.

930

Like you said, there's already 20 stages

that,

931

that, you know, climbers and breakaway

specialists can go for that.

932

That was crazy.

933

Crowds on some very, very small streets

with 90 people in the peloton

934

and that peloton thinned out to 50

pretty quickly.

935

Right.

936

So can you imagine, you know, 176 guys

start the tour de France,

937

say 150 on a good year,

could maybe finish the tour

938

de France, that circuit with 150 guys

and all the cars?

939

No way. it was gorgeous to watch.

940

I mean, it was so awesome

seeing that on TV,

941

and I'm glad we got to witness that,

but I'm glad it was definitely, you know,

942

that reduced peloton, or it would have

been it would have been nuts.

943

Well,

call me a dreamer, but how about that?

944

Instead of having the Saturday

or Friday stage in Alpe d’Huez

945

and have an entire weekend in Paris

and reenact the entire Olympics.

946

Have it on Friday on the same circuit,

947

maybe a little longer,

and where the roads are too small.

948

I agree with that, Bobby,

but have a long, tough, hilly circuit

949

in Paris on Saturday

950

and then on Sunday you have to show comes

easy parade and everybody can be happy.

951

Cruising down the Champs-Élysées

a maybe half an entire weekend in Paris.

952

Yeah, just paralyze the whole entire city

for not one day, but three.

953

Yeah, that makes sense.

954

Yeah. Let's,

you should propose that to a lot.

955

Parties. We might have a chance because,

956

the city

957

mayor, Andy Hidalgo, she is big into,

958

getting traffic out of the city,

having speed,

959

two, three zones everywhere, electric

traffic, having bikes everywhere.

960

So we would actually have a chance

to get her on our podcast.

961

I believe.

962

Okay, well,

we'll get Prudhomme and Hidalgo together

963

and we'll sort this out, but,

that was a brilliant,

964

mailbag episode.

965

Thanks very much

for sending in your questions.

966

Remember, if you want to get your question

in the next one,

967

anywhere you see our tandem message,

these guys directly,

968

or send it to the tandem at Shop draft.com

and we'll get it answered.

969

Thanks very much.