862 · The Happiest Factory on Earth: Disneyland, Automation, and the Future of Theme Parks

What if the magic of Disneyland isn't just what you see - but how it all works?

In Episode 862, Lou Mongello sits down with Roland Betancourt - Guggenheim Fellow, UC Irvine Professor of Art History, and author of Disneyland and the Rise of Automation - for a conversation that might just completely change the way you experience every Disney attraction, every land, and every sound in the parks.

They explore how a churro rolling through a conveyor belt oven became the thesis of an entire book on Disneyland history… how Walt Disney’s 1948 visit to the Ford River Rouge plant quietly helped shape the DNA of the park we know today… how the Enchanted Tiki Room’s birds were animated using magnetic tape technology also used in early missile systems… and why the tension between automation and human workers dominating headlines today was already playing out on Disneyland’s opening day in 1955.

Whether you love Disney parks history, theme park technology, or want to experience Disneyland in a completely new way, you’ll learn exactly where to stand, what to listen for, and what to touch on your very next visit… and why you may never ride the Matterhorn Bobsleds the same way again.

This is Disneyland like you've never heard it before.

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What if the magic of Disneyland and really all the Disney parks isn't just what you see, but how it all works?

This week I'm sitting down with a Guggenheim Fellow and UC Irvine professor whose new book might just completely change how you look at, listen to, and and fall in love with the Disney parks all over again.

We're talking about the hidden engineering, the industrial automation and the machinery that's been powering Disneyland's magic since opening day and hiding in plain sight the whole time. And by the end of this episode, you're never going to hear the Matterhorn's breaks or the Tiki Room's birds the same way again.

And you're also going to see the future of the Disney parks in a completely different light. Because what's happening right now has been building since opening day.

Hello, my friend, and welcome to WDW Radio, your guide to the Disney parks and experiences around the world. I am Lou Mongello, and this is show number 862.

And whether this is your first time listening or you've been with me since the very beginning, welcome home and thank you for being here. Before we dive in, please come join the community and conversation over in the WW Radio clubhouse at www. Radio.com/clubhouse.

Watch and chat during the live show every Wednesday at 7:30pm Eastern on Facebook and YouTube. And sign up for my free weekly email newsletter over@www.radio.com. And when you do, I will send you a free gift.

And don't forget that when you're ready to plan your next Disney trip, visit my friends over@m MouseFanTravel.com for completely free expert and personalized vacation planning. But for now, sit back, relax, and enjoy this week's episode of the WWE Radio show. Welcome to a most exciting adventure.

A breathtaking bobsled ride down the icy slopes of the majestic Matterhorn.

This week, we're going to look at Disneyland in a way that you probably never thought about before and possibly, hopefully change the way you see every single attraction that you've ever ridden in a Disney Park. Not just as a place and a piece of storytelling or nostalgia or even innovation, but I think something that's much deeper.

This living, breathing system of automation and. And incredible engineering and design that is hiding in plain sight since opening day.

But what if the magic of Disneyland isn't just what we see, but how it all works, from audio animatronics to ride systems to guest flow, feedback loops, and even something as simple, yes, there has to be food involved as a churro cart. My guest today is going to explore not just how Disneyland entertains us, but. But helped shape how we, I think, understand technology itself.

And by the end of the conversation, I think my hope is that you're never going to listen to the sound of the Matterhorn bobsleds breaks the same way again, the hiss of a pneumatic door or the sound of an audio animatronic the same way again.

Because I think the argument is both bold and brilliant that all of these things, the rides, the attractions, the entertainment, are inseparable from the history of industrial automation in America. And I think that understanding is going to change how we look and experience the Disney parks. So my guest today is Dr. Roland Bettencourt.

He is the Chancellor's professor of Art History at UC Irvine. He's a Guggenheim Fellow, and he's also the author of a new book called Disneyland and the Rise of Automation.

How Technology Created the Happiest Place on Earth. And I think you're going to hear the park in a completely different way after our conversation. Dr. Betancourt. Roland, if I may. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. And thank you for that introduction. I feel like you really captured the spirit of the book really well, and so I really appreciate that.

Well, this. This, I think, is going to be a fascinating conversation.

And I get a lot of books and things that come across my desk, and this was so unique in its perspective and its content, which is why I wanted you to have on for, you know, what is going to, I think, be, you know, more than just an academic conversation. Because your book opens with a churro, which I knew we were going to be fast friends as soon as I saw, like, a Disneyland churro.

And somehow that churro becomes a window into the entire philosophy of Disneyland Park.

Do me a favor, just for context, give me a little bit of sort of walk us through that opening and explain how and why this tasty fried dough snack tells us a lot about what Disneyland and the Disney parks really are.

Yeah, no, that was one of the earliest things that I actually wrote for the book. And when I say early, I mean maybe like four years before I actually started writing the book.

I wrote that because I was struggling with what I wanted the book to be, how I wanted to communicate the ideas. And, you know, it's a history book. So at Some points in the book, it's going to be dense and we're going to get into the weeds.

And I wanted something that really almost captured the stakes of what the story was. And so I said, let's start with a churro. And it's such a great object.

I mean, not only because people love churros, but also because there's so much mythology around the churro, like, where does it come from? Is it from here, is it from there? Like, you know, are Disneyland churros actually unique? Are they mass produced? But how?

And then I really sort of had one of those moments where, you know, you're waiting in line for churro, the line is very long because there's a parade or something going on nearby. And I started watching the way that the actual churro lives out its life moving through its little conveyor belt oven.

And I thought, oh, this is such a, like, metaphor for how I see the park working.

And, and it's such a great moment for capturing a bit of the thesis of the book, which is really that when you get on a ride, you're sort of getting the POV video of how things are made.

And, you know, I grew up, I'm a kid of the 90s, so I grew up watching a lot of, like, how it's made unwrapped, all these, like, behind the scenes videos of, you know, how things in our world are made and manufactured. And I feel like that captured so much of the magic.

I never understood when people said that things were homemade as, like a good thing, because I always was seduced by, you know, a mass produced, like, things behind this, like, invisible black box. And so it really captured a lot of, like, the magic of Disney from that technological side.

And it also was something that felt so relatable to all this lore around, you know, what the Disneyland churro is. And I have to say also that as a Floridian going to Walt Disney World, I don't feel like churros were as big of a deal there.

And so they're such a big deal in Southern California.

Well, because they taste better out there. It's because of the water and because of the humidity. I will die on that hill.

The Disneyland churro is a better churro than the Walt Disney World one.

It always stays crispy.

But I think sort of the core premise of the book, and we'll get into, obviously in much more detail, I think it sort of reframes Disneyland in a way that most guests don't think about it, it's not just A place of magic and storytelling, but really this showcase of automation. And I'm with you. I love the same thing. I love logistics, I love automation.

Like, you know, getting to tour like a factory to see how things are made, how the machines are made that make the machines is incredible to me. And I think we watched a lot of, and I still like to watch a lot of those same History Channel type shows.

What sort of for you made you want to start, you know, not just sort of appreciating it, but really seeing the park on a much deeper level through that lens of automation.

Yeah, it's.

It really began because, you know, I'm an art historian, so I thought, oh, well, I'm going to, you know, write something about castles and theming and the obvious things that all of my colleagues would expect me to do if they hear that I'm working on something on Disneyland or a theme park. And every time that I tried to come up with something or go in a certain avenue, I felt somewhat disappointed.

And I kept asking myself, no, what is it that you always found most enchanting about this space? And I began to realize that it was sort of, you know, the jerkiness of rides that sort of like that you can hear, feel the computer thinking.

And I actually really appreciate how much emphasis on sound you placed really in your intro because it really was a process about feeling and listening to the machines.

And one of my favorite things to do to this day is sit in the tiki room and just hear all the clacking, especially of like the Birds of Paradise in the background. The other day I actually did a recording of it. And all you could hear, you couldn't hear the song at all.

All you could hear was like clacking, which I was like, yes, this is what I wanted. And so that's really what drew me to it. I was really fascinated by this sort of invisible world.

And I was talking to someone recently who had read the book and they said to me, it's so funny, I had never thought about these things until I read the book. But when I read the book I could remember them.

And that was really powerful for me to think about how much of these feelings of an awareness of the machines is in our minds and is stored in our memories, but we just need the vocabulary and awareness to like bring them up. And I think that really just increases the magic of it all.

Well, I think the operative word and I'm happy that you used it was feel. Right?

You talked about how it makes us feel about the feelings and I think you not so subtly suggest that Disneyland doesn't just use technology, but it teaches us how to feel about it.

And when you think back to Walt and originally designing this park, how intentional do you think that was on his part or was it just sort of this magical secondary, tertiary benefit of how he was able to utilize the technology that wasn't just available at the time, but that he helped create as well?

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it's a little bit of both.

I think that, you know, as a historian, we always had the privilege of the historical distance to call out these big trends and say, this is happening here. You know, we're in the moment of the rise of automation as Disneyland is being built. When you're in it, you sort of don't see it.

And I also think that we have to go back to, you know, when you think about like the Disneyland reports, the pre opening reports on the Disneyland TV show. Walt wanted to show you a park being manufactured, being made.

He wanted to show you how it was being built, how they were testing out technology, how they were building, sort of translating, you know, a real alligator into a mechanical alligator so that you could go on the jungle Cruise and appreciate the labor and technology and the various crafts that were coming together. And so I think that the, you know, we tend to assume that Disney the magic works because we don't know how it works.

And Disney's very secretive about the magic and so on. But it's actually very clear that Walt wanted you to know how the magic worked because that was so much of what that period also demanded.

There was this sort of heroism for these ideas of progress and technology. I love the opening to the carousel of progress that says, you know, progress is like the hum of the heartbeat of a factory, the sound of a piston.

You know, there's real understanding that this is what these ideas of like, you know, Post World War II, the early Cold War era really sort of like heroized in American culture. And so the park was just a perfect place where you could experience these things to create a new, very cinematic experience.

You know, it's funny, as you were talking about the early days of Walt introducing Disneyland and letting people peek a little bit behind the curtain as to how things were happening and coming along, I think this is sort of coming full circle because There was a time in between when everything was very secret, right. We didn't want to spoil the magic.

And then maybe you started to allow us to do things like take backstage tours, but it was still sort of hidden to a certain degree, but now it's sort of coming full circle.

And I think things like your book, I think the Disneyland handcrafted documentary by Leslie Iwerks, I think what Disney is starting to do with their short and long form videos on both YouTube and social, as well as on Disney are opening up that first of all, I think that interest was always there, but now letting us know, hey, we want to sort of share with you how and why it's happening without it spoiling the magic at all. But you were talking about the automation and the factories and things like that.

And there was something I found fascinating in the book that I think is potentially and maybe intentionally going to make some people pause because you sort of make this very bold claim that Disneyland is at its core a factory in and of itself and that we, the guests are sort of the raw materials that are being processed on this assembly line. I think it's a very provocative idea for Disney fans. Help unpack that for us. Like, what do you mean?

And how did you arrive at that sort of conclusion?

Yeah, a lot of it, you know, was me trying to think about what language and metaphors could I use to really get the point across for people in a really, in a way that was really animate and it was actually really interesting. And I don't dwell on this too much, but other amusement park leaders actually refer to their parks as the plant, which is really interesting.

And Walt Disney himself would refer especially to the studio as the plant. So there is this language in a broader sort of entertainment industry that whatever is producing entertainment is sort of a plant.

And so this was, I think, something that Walt himself would have not necessarily batted an eye out at. Thinking of Disneyland as a sort of factory in that self or something that produces experiences.

And for me, a lot of the of that language is to get us to think a little bit about what these attractions do.

When you begin to sort of shift, you know, there's a whole idea of like, I remember I was at a party once and I said to someone, oh, I'm writing a book on Disneyland and automation. They were like, yeah, so what? Everyone knows that. Which was like, yeah, we all know that these are machines like that.

It's sort of assembly line esque and automated.

And I think one of the moments that I really thought, well, so what is the point of thinking, which I love this story, that when the dark rides, the original dark rides opened, none of the main characters were in them because the idea was that you were Peter Pan, you were Snow White. It worked really well in Mr. Toad because you were behind a steering wheel. But everywhere else, people were like, where the hell is Snow White?

It was this great comments of like, the Evil Queen stopped us the entire time the kids were screaming and where the hell was Snow White? And I think that's a great moment of thinking. That's.

I think, one of the moments where Disney really breaks from the sort of cinematic idea of a camera. You know, we think that Disney rides are a translation of the film experience.

And so you're going to be like a camera looking at these various scenes. I think the Omnimover does that, for example, with the Haunted Mansion.

But it was very clear that for those early dark rides, the idea was like, no, what this allows us to do is put you in the place of the main character.

And so I think that's such a great way of that, envisioning that metaphor that you, you know, you come in as a Sally, but you're going to come out as Peter Pan. You're going to get. Or you're going to come out as Wendy, you're going to come out as one of the kids, you're going to come out as Tinkerbell.

You are being sort of transformed into the character experience. It's sort of like the machines are doing the cosplay for you.

And I think that's a great way of thinking a little bit more conceptually, but also like thinking about really what the theme park offered, the early imagineers, that was different from just, you know, a camera moving around, showing you the lives of someone, but you are invisible as sort of the cameraman. And so I think that was one of the things that, for me, it really is about thinking what this assembly line metaphor does. Does allow.

And I think from the perspective of the creators, a lot of these industrial technologies, what were allowed them to make, you know, gags and special effects that in the studio might have taken, like, needed to live for three or four effects to actually be something you could run 24 7.

And so there's this, like, really wonderful and very smart and well thought out convergence of what the technology offered and what the theme park offered that was legitimately different from what you could do with film.

And I think, to your point, I think it was almost uncomfortably disruptive to a guest because when you go to the Movies. No, movies are shot from a POV perspective. You are not sort of this participant in the film. You are looking at it from sort of a third point of view.

So not sort of being told as you're walking into Snow White, you are Snow White. Change the framing of. Of what you're doing. We didn't have that right. So we just, like, why is.

Why is the main character not in any of these attractions? It took us a while to finally get there, but, you know, we. And I wasn't half joking. Like, the book literally starts on churros.

But I think one of the things that was really interesting was the book.

And I think eventually all the other Disney parks became.

And I have some of what I think are great comparisons to the book images of what these sites looked like and what they ended up doing at Disneyland, which show very clearly how directly inspired they were from these places. But what's also really important is that they. They went to the Ford because they wanted to go see the Ford factory.

And so Ward and Walt showed up in a moment that was really critical for the River Rouge. They were really trying to refurbish it.

And the best part was that even since the moment it opened, even before it opened, the River Rouge had an entire tour industry that was built into it. So I have shots in the book of one of the tours that was recorded from the 30s, which is really amazing.

You see these table, like, walking past blast furnaces, and there's, like, Handrails, there's railings built so that you can do this. They had these amazing. This is one of my favorites as well. They had this.

These tour vans that had glass ceilings so that you could see everything around you in the factory. And so it's one of those really amazing moments where you see how this factory was also being treated a little bit like a theme park.

I'm really saying theme park there because it's. I think it's a lot more than just an amusement park. It really was about getting to, like, see the awe and power of what machines could do.

And of course, Walt comes back and basically drafts the earliest sort of written plan for what Disneyland could eventually become. And so I think it was, you know, I love it because we on.

We recognize that that trip was foundational, but we always tend to overstress the theming rather than the mechanics that eventually made it happen.

And even later, when they're trying to plan the World's Fairs attractions, I love this anecdote that when they're working with four to create, when they're thinking about what to do for Ford for the World's Fair, Ford eventually becomes the magic Skyway. They actually, they go to Ford plants as a sort of, like, reconnaissance tour.

And Walt just is like, I saw this, like, thing that conveys these massive molten ingots. Can you make it into a ride? That seems like it could be a good ride.

And I love that story because it's not like he has a brilliant idea where he's like, of course this could be translated into this.

But he takes that inherent seduction of seeing this powerful machine moving this massive thing and says, there's something here just because of that enchantment of that technology. And I think that really captures what these earlier Ford visits were.

And he visited the Ford factory quite often for many reasons, both on business and also because he really loved it. So it says a lot about that lifelong affiliation to Ford.

Well, and it just shows the brilliance of Walton and will include the imagineers around him of seeing past the utilitarian and industrial uses for certain technology and figuring out there's a way that I can bring this into this themed three dimensional storytelling experience. We were talking about Peter Pan's flight earlier. Same thing, right?

Peter Pan's flight, I think, was Bob Gurr on one of these trips looks, and they see that they're moving parts on these overhead conveyances as opposed to tracks on the ground. It was like, wait a minute. This is another way that we could sort of integrate this into a Ride system.

But I think there's as an extension of that, Roland, the fact that he was able to take technologies that were being utilized elsewhere and bring this into this quote unquote, Mickey Mouse park that he was building. So, for example, you mentioned your love the Tiki Room. I'm with you. I love the sort of the. There's so much you can go to these attractions.

Just close your eyes and just listen. And there's something very comforting about that.

And you talk about how in the Tiki Room we understand that the magnetic tape technology that's used to animate those birds or did at that time, but it was the same technology that was being used to test ballistic missiles for the military. So how do things like the, you know, I'm sure it's the same type of thing, but he's not able to probably visit military plants the same way.

How do these military and some of these other industrial technologies end up hidden inside this tropical hut in the middle of what used to be orange groves in Anaheim?

Yeah, I mean, that's one of my favorite parts of the story.

I mean, I think one of the things that I really, very early on really fell in love with is that, you know, we try to have this sort of imagineering idea that imagineering is, you know, a closed set of people working with each other to create. And there's a lot of credit to that. And it's not.

I don't think this lessons it at all, but it's what I love about it also is that first and foremost, they were really avid consumers of information. They were reading Popular Mechanics and all these sort of trade magazines and just seeing what they could adapt.

And I think one of the most interesting stories that comes up in the book and that for many reasons gets sort of left out, especially the official Disney narratives, is how much collaboration with industrial partners there is. You know, they. To make Peter Pan, they say, hey, Cleveland Tram Rail Co. Can. Can we adapt this warehouse conveyor to transport people?

And how do we do this safely? And what safety systems do you have in place?

And so there's this really interesting story that comes up then about the way in which there's a collaboration with American industry at large that they are deploying. And that's really where all these sort of intersections with the military. And I love the magnetic tape story because it's pretty wild.

Magnetic tape has this very wild story.

3M, which is developing magnetic tape for sound recording, starts calling it like Hitler's technology because it gets associated with a very high level magnetic Tape that was developed in Germany at the time during World War II, that Hitler was using to record speeches. Then magnetic tape starts being used to automate warehouses and manufacturing and the military is also using it to test ballistic missiles.

Which then, of course, the sort of the waltz mythology of it, his judge to it all is like, oh, yes, this is Polaris missile tape that we bought from the government, basically, which really was this wonderful way of, like, you know, it wasn't necessarily like being bought by the government, which has caused a lot of confusion, but it was being bought by one of the government contractors that was trying to figure out, hey, the government contracts are drying up where how do we diversify what we're doing and try to get this into other spaces?

And with, you know, technology that they developed and perfected with the US Government for these various applications, they basically help Disney figure out these processes for doing what they did with the Tiki Room. And so it's this really fascinating moment of collaboration of all these sort of like research and development units.

Both wed as imagineering doing that research and development, but also various companies around the US and so I think that's one of the things that's really exciting about the book is that it really shows you, like, what's at stake and what Disney was doing in a broader history of American industry, which is fascinating.

And you, I think in some ways, you know, that myth of a singular genius or creativity, in a sense, sort of makes a little bit shallow the idea of, like, how smart these people were in consuming this information.

And also just the amazing collaborations that were happening, which is something that we also, you know, in a world of trade secrets and being very protective, we don't really see that all.

You know, we describe Walt appropriately so, and maybe even not enough as a true visionary.

And you talk at one point about block zones, which is how to keep ride vehicles safely separated, and how this evolved from not just Walt's interest in trying to create this type of system, but from a personal love that he had, which was of trains. Because this traces its origins back to the original railroad signaling systems. Obviously, we know Walt very clearly passionate about trains.

And I started to wonder, do you think his love of trains was maybe also, or even in a deeper way, a love of these systems, of these types of automations and control? That is really what he was almost studying above and beyond, or as part of just his love of trains as this romantic older conveyance?

Yeah, and I. Yeah, I think that's perfectly said. Like, there is often this idea of, like, it's a romantic, older conveyance system that he was in love with.

But, no, I mean, I think first and foremost, we have to admit Walt was a bit of a nerd. And he loved. He loved the technology, and he loved. I think he really loved the logistics of it all as well.

Like, I think there was a real, like, power to that for him.

And, like, his backyard railroad had a block system, which I mentioned in the book, like, was not necessary because there's only one train, so you didn't need that. But I think that made it more accurate, real. There's also, of course, the looming possibility maybe there'll be another train.

But it really was a desire to make something very accurate and also to really sort of understand the system for how it actually operated in the world in the sort of miniature miniaturization, which, of course, is so critical to how he thinks. And I think that that's something that really defines a lot of what the Disney rides are able to do.

It comes from this desire to see how sort of, like, the logistics and operations of industry at large, how these systems could be adopted.

And, you know, some of this is Walt, and some of it is, like, the moment, like, there's this real desire that, like, you know, how do we translate everything.

All the technology we developed for the war and in association with the war, and also the technology that was delayed because of the war, how do we sort of sell it to commercial applications that are not necessarily warfare? And I think that's something that Walt really sort of taps into in this moment.

But, of course, you know, when you look back at the history of the Walt Disney Studios, you have the multiplane camera, you have the synchronization of film and sound. Like, these logistics are really always there, this desire for this technological innovation.

And one thing that I always like to stress about, particularly the aspect of the synchronization of sound and film, was that it really was like a. It was about paperwork essentially.

It was about basically tabulating how do you make sure that every animation cell matches a sound and how do you prepare for that sound.

And so I think that a lot of these ideas were really coming, were a long standing, lifelong interest that he really saw this moment where, like, you needed to diversify beyond what just the studio was doing.

Yeah, as I was reading through this, and I'm like, man, Walt, you are smart. How do you convince your wife to build a scale model railroad in your backyard?

You tell her that you're doing it as a diversion for work because you just have this love of things. But I think really deep down Walt was like, this is.

I can come home and I can continue to study and I can continue to figure out how to learn and more importantly, improve on what he was doing. I think obviously he was always, from day one, he was iterating Disneyland.

And I think the Matterhorn, which appears a number of times in the book, is a great example of that. And the evolution of some of this automation from the original systems to the electronic controllers in the 80s.

Talk about how the Matterhorn really is such an exemplary, and I think it's sort of a really rich example of how the park's technology and automation has continued to develop over time.

Yeah, I mean, I love the Matterhorn. Just. I always say that the Matterhorn taught me everything I know about Disneyland and, and chiropractors.

Right,.

Yes, I understand. I just rode the Matterhorn a few days ago and I completely understand.

Yeah, it's, it's a fascinating attraction because, you know, it was innovative for, you know, many reasons in its early days. And we always talk about the tubular steel track, which allowed for more sinuous curves as the pattern likes to talk about.

But a lot of also the, the key thing that the Matterhorn did do was to create this block system. A really interesting story. A man by the name of Robert Gilman, who is Robert Gilman, we know very little about him. I've spoken with his family.

We don't know much about what his involvement was, but he wasn't an imagineer. He came from up north and had some connections to others that had worked on sort of the early amusements of the park.

And he developed basically the Matterhorns block system, which is the, in essence becomes the gold standard of how we sort of ensure the safety of roller coasters. And it's a logic that then and before that also got sort of copied and pasted throughout the park.

And what I love about the Matterhorn is that this story continues.

It gets refurbished in the 70s with a new exploration of new technologies and how they can move from what used to be relay racks, so very complicated electrical wiring with sensors to detect vehicles, to take actions to a computer system that could basically do this.

And then the perfection of that computer system over time to create what is basically now the standard of how all rides are regulated if they, if there's like any moving vehicle on it. And so the Matterhorn is this really wonderful case where you see the history of Disney rides in a nutshell.

And that's what I really love about it and why I am Obliged to always say that my favorite ride at Disneyland is the Matterhorn, which always feels.

Weird to say no, but I certainly get it. A little more padding would be nice. That's all I'm saying. Sure.

So many comments.

There's one part I really want to sort of dig a little deeper, no pun intended, in with you. Walt famously said it takes people to make the dream a reality.

And I want to talk specifically about audio animatronics because I think there is this. I think there was, and from a modern day perspective, almost this. You know, there's a potentially growing tension between technology and humanity.

I would love to talk more a little bit about today's AI companions and things like that. But going back to the origins of audio animatronics, you talk about how they aestheticized replacing workers and things like that.

And now we're sort of living in a new sort of automation wave as well.

Talk to me a little bit about this introduction of audio animatronics and how they, and we as guests and how that interaction experience has evolved since they were first introduced.

Yeah, I mean it's. Everything you've said is so accurate.

And I remember at the very end I have the first five or six chapters are really sort of an intro to the 50s in automation.

And I was like, let me cut this out because like, it's so dense in the sense of like you're getting a sort of history lesson and it's, it's about the park, but it's not.

And I was like, no, like this is like the most important thing that I think if anyone picks this up, like we need to know this information in this moment right now, because it's so relevant not only to how we understand Disney's history, but also to, like, the lessons that it really shows us. And I think a lot of that really comes to a head with the audio animatronics.

Like, the idea was that with magnetic tape, you could basically record a worker's actions. Like, if they were on a milling machine and they were making an airplane wing, they could do this very highly specialized craft. You could record it.

It was a technology developed by General Electric. You could record that and then just hit play again. And the machine would do the exact same thing that the worker had done.

And you no longer needed that worker. You needed people to train machines, but you didn't need people to do the labor. And it's seems like an abstract thing, like, oh, that's a.

That's a them problem in the factory. But even. It's very clear that even imagineers had a bit of an issue.

Like, there's a story that I talk about in the book where Blaine Gibson and others like Jack Latish were concerned about the idea. Like, it's one thing to produce animatronics of birds who would present many problems and cannot sing. That's me ruining the magic.

I suppose it's another thing to produce an animatronic that, of course, could be a human being. And, you know, Gibson basically says that Walt basically convinced him by saying, well, it's Abraham Lincoln. Nobody can play Abraham Lincoln.

Yeah, okay. But, you know, at the same time, we have the carousel of progress. Like, you know, what about all those people? And that's.

I mean, that's a tension that was very clear. And it. You see multiple moments where it. It's clear that in that period they were uncomfortable with it. And it's a great one of the.

The Life magazine coverage of When Pirates of the Caribbean Opened begins basically with the line, like, the Hollywood unions are going to have an issue with this, which I don't. You know, it's. It's a great. It captures the situation perfectly. And I. I think it was very early clickbait.

It was. Life magazine was really is.

And it's. It's funny, right now we're having this conversation about Tilly Norwood, who's this AI actor that they've been trying to sell her to agencies.

Now SAG AFTRA is proposing, like, a Tilly tax to make sure that, like, if there are AI actors, there will be such a high tax that it would be just as expensive as hiring a Real actor. And as you said, like things like CGI and all this. This whole history, in many ways, these problems have never gone away.

They've just been escalating or developing in different ways.

And I think that's where there's really a fascinating story here to be learned and to think about, which is that I think we can have a lot of anxieties and panics about, you know, machines of different sorts, AI replacing us in our jobs.

And then it's so funny because then we panic about that, we worry about that, but then we open our AI of choice and have a conversation with it about what we should eat, which is fascinating in its own right. And I think about that a lot because I think that that's not what Disney was doing intentionally.

It's not like Disney was trying to sell us on automation directly, in that sense, with a negative sort of ulterior motive. But that is what entertainment does. I think it takes technology.

Oftentimes that can be very scary, that has very real implications, and it makes us comfortable with it because it is entertainment.

Because if you're having a conversation with a chat bot, like, you're sort of excited by the novelty of it on the one hand, and also by whatever it offers you.

And I think that when technology sort of is able to sell itself as entertainment, you really do cross into that threshold where, okay, well, if it takes my job, I'll worry about that later. And I think that's not a unique thing to Disneyland.

I think Disneyland's a great sort of place where that comes up early on in this history, but it seems to be like the continuing thread of the 20th century now. The 21st century.

Yeah. Could you talk about when they first revealed the Lincoln animatronic figure, how one of the journalists was chilled to the bone.

And I think we're living through. But I think what Walt did was he made that technology not feel threatening, but feel more magical and wonderful and comfortable.

And now we're sort of living through this new automation wave where AI is displacing not just creative, but cognitive workers and things like that. And I think Disney is starting to thread the needle, as it were, in terms of bringing characters into the parks.

I don't just mean Wally and Eve over at the hotel in Anaheim, but I mean, I think we're starting to see, and we'll continue to see AI interactions and the next generation of PARC experiences, because the parks and we and the generation behind us, in terms of their level of expectation of interactivity and personalization, is evolving and those that next generation of in park experience is going to certainly involve AI driven figures that can genuinely respond to, to guests, not just someone maybe hitting a button or making a gesture that's going to have that pre recorded, not so magnetic tape playback. The Tiki Birds had that one track for audio.

And I think future animatronics and characters are going to have this, you know, LLM to a certain degree built in.

Yeah. And I think that's one of the most amazing things about this history is that it doesn't stop and how theme parks adopt technology.

And this is, and I cover this in the conclusion of the book where I take a step outside of Disneyland to think of things like the Harry Potter ride, like Forbidden Journey at Universal Studios where you have these Kuka arms which are basically the manufacturing robots that make our cars.

You know, those robotic arms here being thought about and think, you know, this idea of like how do we sort of reinvent the Dark ride using this current automation technology. And I think that's there's a story there about, you know, like looking around and seeing what technology affords us for new experiences.

But I think there's also that aspect that like by incorporating these technologies you also have a moment where it's not so much that it's innovative and you've never heard of this technology before.

It's the fact that you do recognize it as something that you associate with car manufacturing or you know, having an interaction with a character that you know is AI. And so there's like a sort of excitement that now like this character can basically do anything within whatever bounds are set for it.

And I think that that's the really interesting long term history of how theme parks, not only Disney, sort of help us to become accustomed to these various changes that happen structurally, technologically in our world. And it's interesting because we also, I think one of the things that is very important in how we think about this is that it doesn't just happen.

You know, AI is not just going to be in a character, it's also probably going to be in the safety systems of the attractions as well. And does that raise questions? Yes, many questions.

And it also reminds us that then how rides operate, how they behave is going to change and you're going to begin to feel whatever AI's aesthetics are in the rides as well.

Yeah, you know, going back thinking about that, thinking about that journalist that saw and I'm probably, I'm sure his or her reaction was indicative of what a lot of people in that room were Feeling right. Being sort of chilled to the moment. Like, that animatronic seemed so human. It elicited a visceral reaction from him or her, which is starting to.

I mean, we're starting to get that now. The way people are responding to AI companions and chatbots.

It's sort of that, like, whoa, I can't believe this is the type of response that I'm getting. There are relationships forming, creepy or not creepy, between, you know, humans and their AI companions.

And it's sort of like the same phenomenon that Walt was. Not just experience, I think, but sort of helping to engineer back in the 60s, just with a different level of technology. And I wonder if Disneyland.

I mean, I think it clearly did.

Disneyland helped people not just make peace with, but understand that automation and those technological leaps by making it magical, by making it special, by making it.

Something.

That was wonderful and entertaining and not something that was scary.

Yeah.

And, you know, one of the things that I love the most, and I think this is a great sort of for all listeners, like, one of the great things to think about whenever you see an animatronic, in particular, animatronics. I think that's a good one. It's the most sort of, like, easiest to wrap your head around is like, always watch and see what it will always.

There's always. With every animatronic, there's always one thing it will do to make you think, oh, that crossed the line into lifelikeness.

And I. I think the great example is, you know, Abraham Lincoln stood up. That was. That was the moment where you thought, oh, I could imagine something is very lifelike. All of that is surprising.

But then he stands up and I. I was really thinking about that because I just saw the Walp disease. Animatronic.

You're reading my mind, right?

But there's that moment where he stands up and the slides, and I think that's there. And if you look at animatronics, I've noticed this at Universal Studios. I've noticed this. You know, I mean, the.

The animatronic and Na' Vi River Ride, they all have that thing where they show off as to, like, what they can do that the technology before might have not been able to do. And I think that's always a really great way of knowing how, like, what's the flex of the animatronic of what it can do that others couldn't?

And it's this idea of saying, this is how lifelike I am, that now I can slide my foot across or that I can move in very sort of fluid ways while I'm singing, in the case of the Navi River Ride. And I think that's something that's really helpful as an easy way of just teaching yourself how to read the showing off of how these machines work.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about Walt who, you know, according to story, history, legend, whatever you want to call it, I don't think ever, you know, said he never wanted a figure of himself like that. Right. Because it wasn't about Walt, it wasn't about the park. And I think the fact that imagineering and Disney as a whole is like, now is the time.

Now is the best time to introduce a Walt animatronic was very telling on. On a number of different levels.

And we talked about, I think, the inordinate pressure that was put on them to make sure, like, you have to get Walt right. It has to be right from the outset. And the Internet being what the Internet is, you know, not everybody responded to Walt the same way.

But I will tell you that when I sat, I was able to go to a preview. And when I sat there and it wasn't when he stood up, it's when he leaned back on the desk, I was like, whoa, his eyes are different. Right?

There's a certain gleam in his eyes that you see. But when he made that gesture, I was like, this is it.

This is now we're sort of leveling up animatronics in terms of such a human, like, sense of movement that we are getting from them.

And look, even what we're seeing in things like Olaf in Disneyland Paris and how he walks and how he moves and how he's able to move on a moving boat that is also not on a track. You sort of see everything getting dialed up to 11.

Yeah. And it's always an interesting history with animatronics and how they convince us.

I was sitting in the front row for the Walt animatronic because I was like, might as well worry. And I was really surprised by how expressive the face was, which is like, whether you think it looks like Walt or not. Like, the face was very.

It was so powerful. And of course that the. The movements of, like, moving back, all these sort of little things.

It's because I think there is a moment where I feel like Hondo Anaka is a great example of this where, like, animatronics want to be like, I'm so high tech, I'm going to move so much. And I always say that the most convincing animatronic is the avatar that's just in the tube twitching because it's.

There's something so lifelike about those simple movements. And so it's very interesting also to think about as technology increases, what. What really captures us. And I.

One of my favorite things that I always like to talk about is the birds aren't real fake conspiracy theory that happened a few years ago. And I always think about the Tiki Room because it shows so much.

A little bit about the brilliance of, you know, even in the Middle Ages, birds were the first things that were made into sort of animatronics or, you know, what we would call automata in that period, because birds have a very robotic, like, movement. And so they sort of bridge what is normally that Valley of the Uncanny, where, like, the robot's too real but too fake at the same time.

And what I really love also about leaning into figures like Olaf is that the cartoonish nature of how they move and act then makes them really, like, powerful sort of animatronics. Because there's already something.

You're not trying to, like, deceive us as humans, but you're really just bringing to life a character that already has its own unique movements. And that's one of the things that I really love.

I think even any animatronic in Avatar is going to be very convincing because there's a sense that, well, you're not human, so your movements will always be slightly different than mine. And so I think that there's really.

When Disney leans into the characters and things like that that are not human, the animatronics in a weird way become even more impressive because they really can capture what we define as unique to those characters. Just in 3D.

Yeah. And as we were talking, so many different examples are coming to my look.

When you see Spider man flip in Avengers Campus, you're like, that's a human being. There's no way a robot or a piece of technology could move like that.

When you see a BDX droid who, you know, obviously is not human, move the way it does and emote the way it does with very few sort of quote unquote facial features, you sort of attach almost personality to it because they do. They have unique personalities that come out. And I love the phraseology that you use. You call it imaginative.

Imaginative camouflage, which is that the theming and the way that these stories are being told through these characters is not just to make us have these wow moments and magical experiences, interactions, but to make us not see what is going on underneath and I sort of wonder how much of that was intentional at the very beginning when Walt was first starting, and how has that continued to evolve and that evolution of it and that emergence of this camouflage just sort of evolve organically, or was this always sort of intentional from the very beginning? Because now we do forget. Like, you watch Olaf and you think that there is a little, like, walking, talking snowman in.

And I was, you know, two feet away from him, and I was totally bought in.

Yeah. No, I. I love the phrase imaginative camouflage. And just for some context, for listeners, the phrase gets used when they're trying at the.

What is now iapa. The. It would used to be called the national association of Amusement Parks, Pools and Beaches. Very professional organization.

They had annual meetings and all these wonderful panels.

And it was one of the things that gets brought up in their proceedings at one of their meetings where someone's trying to wrap their head around, like, okay, what are we doing now with theming? Everyone's taking on theming largely following the Disneyland model. And someone said, like, oh, yeah, I'm doing some new rides.

And it's basically imaginative camouflage on the rides. But I feel like it really captures, in a sense, that tension, and I also love that.

Camouflage is also very much a wartime development that was very important during World War II. So it also has that sort of, like, added sort of significance.

But it really is this moment where, I mean, what I love so much is that piercing of that veil of the camouflage where it's like, it's camouflage, but you still know there's something underneath. And I think that that's something really impressive. I mean. Yeah, I've been blown away by the Olaf videos.

I haven't seen Olaf in person, but I've been very impressed in that capacity because it is such a powerful reflection of the enduring relevance of so many of these conversations. This is still as important as today as it was in the 50s. It doesn't really age and capacity.

Yeah. And I've had the.

The incredible privilege of being able to go to imagineering and be taken through not just sort of a history of audio animatronics, but what they're doing in terms of R and D and what's coming next and get close up to some of these animatronics that have evolved from the tape to the different types of systems. And when you see them up close, when you do see them, you know, without the skin, they become even more impressive. But I want to go.

There's something that you talk about, and we've mentioned it a Few times. But you talk about. I think it might even be in the preface. And it's something that I love to do when I go with guests.

I have a feeling you do the same and you want people to go and not just pay attention to what they see. Right. This park is all five senses, 360 degrees, but close their eyes even when they're on the attractions and just listen to the sounds.

You talked about the brakes and the motors and the clacking. Because it does help.

I think it helps you experience, especially if you've been there multiple times, it makes you experience that attraction, that land, that park in a different kind of way. So I want to sort of make it something tangible for our friend who's sitting at the table with us listening.

For somebody who's going to a Disney park soon or next, whether it's Disneyland world, wherever it might be, what should they be paying attention to that maybe they've never noticed before? Again, sort of bring it back to some of the things that you talk about in the book.

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I was recently in the park last week and I was walking around and I wanted to do some recordings.

I like sometimes doing sort of soundscapes just to like have like ways to illustrate some of these ideas of like listening. And it was such an interesting moment because it's the first day that I was in the park and I was like, this is my priority today.

Like, I had a. I had a mic attachment for my phone. I was very much like, I'm going to do this properly.

And it was so interesting because my entire experience of the park became moments where I just stopped and I was like, this is a good soundscape. And it was. I was so, you know, I think it's like almost like a sort of cheesy idea of like grounding yourself and being in your body.

But it is sometimes those moments, you know, these places can be extremely overwhelming. Like, I like a lot of movement and being overwhelmed, so it doesn't bother me.

But they can be overwhelming spaces in that you always have so much being thrown at you. And it was such an interesting experience of walking through and having such an attunement of what I was hearing and why.

Asking myself also, wait, why is this special? And it was usually like, oh, I'm hearing some sort of land themed music playing softly in the background. I'm hearing the buzzing of the crowds.

I'm hearing the screams of Splash Mountain. I'm also hearing something mechanical in some aspect.

You maybe you're hearing someone like trucking stuff by you and it's such a, like, wonderful portrait that, I mean, I would always, I would almost encourage us all to like, let's stop taking pictures and videos alone, but like, let's record some sound and like, just be present in that capacity. That's definitely one thing that I think says a lot. But for me, it's. It depends.

I always say, like, what are your interests and what do you want to see? I think a lot of it is I would say go on a ride and just ignore the, ignore the theming for a second. You've. You've been on Peter Pan dozens of times.

Well, maybe the line's a lot a little bit longer, so you want to enjoy that one. But like, go on the matter board and just listen or go onto Space Mountain.

If you happen to be in the front row, like, look at the track and you're going to begin to notice like, little lines, I mean, little lights. The track will go straight and that's going to tell you that you are over a block zone.

And you will see a light for the sensor when you go into the block zone and a light for the sensor as you leave the block zone. And the track will go from straight so that, you know, if you have to stop there, you can get off to, you know, the turns and movements of it all.

And I think that that's the thing, like these technologies, you can read them on the ground. There's a great spot in Alice in Wonderland at Disneyland where the cars are going in, you know, down, down, down, right after they leave.

And you can actually see the way that the track is segmented for the various blocks of the electricity.

And I think just looking to those details that we never look at because we're, we think that, you know, all the artistry is in the cartoons and in the animatronics and in the figures and all that theming.

But I think that once you begin to look at those places that you would not normally look at, you're getting a whole nother story being told by really important imagineers as well. And that's the thing that I, I really.

For me, this book is also a love letter to all these people whose work is often not the priority in many of the stories we tell about Disneyland. And so you're really getting to like, appreciate the craft and the research and development that goes into so much of what operates the park.

And so it's often as simple as maybe like looking behind, looking off to the side, looking where you're not supposed to be looking. That's where these stories tend to reveal themselves. And listening. Definitely listening. I mean, just stand by the Matterhorn and listen to the track.

I am smiling and nodding because I'm with you, man.

I want to hear the sounds of the jungles. And I would just spend hours listening. So I have a. And understanding and appreciation of that.

But as time would go on, when I would go on attractions, I would want to sit in specific locations. Like, I'd sit in the back of the steam train on Expedition Everest, and I wouldn't be looking ahead. I would be.

When we would stop, I would turn around and look behind me and friends with family like, dude, the action is this way. I'm like, no, look, the track is circling. And this is how. Because I was fascinated with the how, right? Not just the why, but the how. And.

And I think some of. I think the more we get to appreciate those details and the more we sort of take in the park in all different senses.

And, you know, one of the reasons why, like, the Omnimover was developed was, you know, Walt wanted to act like in the movies, as a director, where you can sort of direct where you want people. People to focus their attention. But I do think there is a treasure trove of things that we get to see when we look where we're.

I don't want to say not supposed to, but look where we're not intended to. Because I think it does help if you're a nerd like us, it does help get a better sort of understanding.

And look at Disneyland from an angle that you might not have. That you might have missed or might not have thought about before, Right?

And, you know, I. I think this is really where my training as an art historian really comes up. Like, people are like, you're an art historian. Why did you write a book that's like history of technology?

And I think that that's where, as an art historian, I feel like I have a lot to offer because, you know, if I'm standing with a class teaching them how to look at a work of art, one of the main Things that you try to do is like, I don't know, let's say you have. You're looking at a medieval image of, like, the crucifixion of Christ. And the students are like, oh, it's just Jesus on the cross.

And I'm like, no, no, no, let's. Let's go be before that, before you make any associations, like, what are you actually seeing? Like, how is the painting being used?

Like, how are you creating this environment? Like, what are the details? Like, don't even identify that there's, like, a horse. Like, tell me what the details are before then.

And I think that type of experience, not just with vision, but with all your senses in the park, is really critical in really appreciating, if you're interested in the artistry of the park as a whole, but also in, like, an appreciation of what this actually does.

Because it's about dissecting these various parts and then recognizing how everything comes together to create that impression of various lands, of that joy of the park itself.

And so I think that, for me, having that training as an art historian is one of the things that, for me, was the most helpful in really sort of understanding, because it fundamentally comes down to that. Like, when you don't have words to classify things in the world around you, it all becomes noise.

And so being able to, like, separate individual elements is, you know, it's like recognizing different instruments and listening to a symphony. It really is just elevates what. How you can appreciate things. It's a completely different experience of the world.

Yeah.

I really hope people take out of the park as well.

I think it's one of the reasons why I enjoyed this so much, because you do come at it from your training as an art historian, not as an engineer, not as a theme park historian. So you get to see Disneyland in a way that somebody approaching it from another angle might not have or something they might have missed.

So, like, when you go to the part, like when you go to Disneyland now, after everything that you've learned, after everything that you've uncovered and sort of digested, is there a single spot for you? Is there that bench, that queue, that moment in an attraction where you stop now, because in the best possible way, you can't unsee what you know.

Right.

A place that most guests are walking right past or not paying attention to, that would completely stop them in their tracks if they understood what it was that they were looking at, what it was that they were hearing or what it was that they were experiencing?

Yeah, it's a sort of. It almost feels sentimental to hear you ask that because I have the perfect spot and it's at Disneyland. I'm have to pick the Matterhorn.

I can't do this to her enough to pick her. Um, right across.

Roland is also a chiropractor. He has a business card. He's waiting for you at the exit.

Um, yeah, no, right across from the submarines. And I. I love what you said about where people are walking by because it's that it's sort of a non space. It's like the side of the mountain.

You can hear the screams of people, but there's not much to see other than if you're looking at the submarine lagoon, which is really lovely, especially in the evenings, to just sit and look at the lights in the water. But there's a spot right there across from like the fences of the lagoon where you can actually touch the Matterhorn.

And if you place your hand on the Matterhorn, you can actually feel the mountain shudder every time that a car rolls over that portion of the track. And it's such a lovely moment of contact.

And it's one of the few moments where you get to like, not being on the attraction, but feel this machine operating. And it's just this lovely sort of place also, because no one's stopping there. It's just constant traffic.

And I think it just sort of captures everything. You've got the sounds, you have a place that's also quite beautiful in its own right.

And it really just encapsulates everything in a way that I feel very deeply attached to.

I love that I have this huge smile on my face. I'm going to Disneyland later this month. I cannot wait to find that spot before security tells me to move on and be able to.

If my little alligator. It's very. It's. No, it's not. It's not like you're there, Will. You're not crossing any fences. There's no, like, lines. It's totally open.

If my little dinosaur arms can reach it. To be able to touch the Matterhorn again, because it's about experiencing. And that's what for me.

And part of the reason why I wanted to have you come on is because I think this is going to enhance the enjoyment and appreciation of this park. And obviously there's a lot more that you cover in the book.

And when I say the book is massive, I mean that in the best possible way because there's so much that you really sort of take us through. But what is it? What?

What, What Is the one thing that you want us as readers, as guests, as visitors to the park, to be left with or to feel after they're done?

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question.

I think in some ways you did say it already, which is to have that whole nother appreciation and sort of like, I really want to give people the tools to see this whole other narrative of the park.

Like, it's like, if the Disney movies show you how to appreciate the theming and who the characters are, then I. I would hope that this book gives you the appreciation of who, like, who the starring roles are when it comes to the technology. And I think ultimately, like, moving beyond the park.

It's like, I want people to leave this book with the idea that the park is really a mirror to our world and that when you have fun at Disneyland, at Disney World, at any theme park, also like that you. A lot of what you're experiencing is stuff that has a really strong implications in our daily lives.

And it gives us a really powerful glimpse into how our world works in a way that we have usually don't have the vocabulary to express. And I really just want people to leave the park knowing how to read that world and to see that world, to hear that world.

And, you know, I had this great moment with my students. We were in the park and we left the Matterhorn, of course, and one of my students was like, I was able to count about seven block zones.

And I was like, I love that you did that. I didn't ask you to, but I love that you now could say that to me.

And so having just like that awareness of the building blocks of rides and being able to geek out with your friends, even with yourself, I think it's going to offer a lot sort of, you know, on the sort of abstract, intellectual sense, but I think it's also going to be really grounding and just make the park also in some ways more peaceful, because I think it reduces the noise and allows you to actually hear meaning in ways that you normally wouldn't be able to.

That aha.

Moment that your student have, and I love that you got the gift of being able to receive that from him or her and let you know that something that you said got through.

I promise, I think even after you listen to this episode and hopefully go and read the book, you will have those moments when you go to the park as well. Dr. Roland Betancourt, thank you not just for taking the time to share this work, this true passion project with us, but for really.

And I Mean, this, you know, this is not me being hyperbolic, but really to help permanently rewire the way I know I'm going to experience the Disney park and how much more excited I am to go back to Disneyland later this month. Your book is Disneyland and the Rise of Automation. How Technology Created the Happiest Place on Earth. It is out now. I will link it in the show notes.

I cannot recommend it highly enough whether you are a Disney nerd, affectionately, a historian, if you love the engineering, the automation, or if you just simply wonder what's going on behind the magic. And again, I appreciate you and your time so much. I love.

It's what I love about conversations like this because it reminds us that what we're experiencing in the parks is not just storytelling. It's systems and engineering and automation and more importantly, innovation.

And all these things come together and work together, often invisibly, to create something that from our perspective, seems like it is effortless.

So next time you're in the parks or on an attraction or walking through the queue or waiting for that churro to come back to the beginning, you're going to start to hopefully not just see the magic, but understand the machinery and the technology and the brilliance and the vision behind it. And when you do, I would love to hear what you notice, whether you notice it now or what you notice after listening to this episode.

And next time you are on Space Mountain or Peter Pan's flight or the Matterhorn, listen for the breaks because you're going to know exactly what it is that you are hearing. Dr. Wol and Betancourt, thank you again so very much.

Thank you.

All right, last question. If you could eat anywhere in Disneyland right now, where would it, where would you go? And what do you get?

Oh. Oh, that's easy. Red wagon, corn. Da. My favorite thing in the park.

I know. I like you. That's the right answer. I mean, there's no wrong answers, but that's the right, rightest of the right answers.

I mean, it's amazing.

It's time for our Disney Trivia Question of the week, where you can test your knowledge of the sights, sounds, secrets and stories of Disney. And if you think you know the answer, enter via our online forum for a chance to win a Disney prize package.

This week's trivia segment is once again brought to you you by the most important part of WW Radio, which is you. Seriously. Because when you join the WW Radio Nation, you're not only helping to support the show, but you're also becoming part of something bigger.

And for as little as a dollar per month, you get access to exclusive scavenger hunts, group video calls, our private Facebook community, surprise mailings and care packages from the parks, and much more.

But more importantly, your support powers our Dream Team project which has helped remember, raise more than $550,000 for make a Wish trips for children with life threatening illnesses. Real Disney magic for the families who need it most.

If you enjoy the show and this community and also believe in giving back, I'd love for you to join us. You can learn more and become a member of the nation by going to www.comsupport and from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Now, before we get to this week's question, let's go back review last week's and select our winner. So last week we are talking all about Daredevil.

Hopefully you have caught up on episodes two or three or four depending on when you are listening to this.

I am also a huge Spider man fan and in that scene, which is one of my favorites, when he caught the brick that was thrown through the window without even looking, his powers were quietly on display. And Charlie Cox's Daredevils Matt Murdock's appearance was kept completely secret before the film's release.

And that moment, mid conversation without blinking, the theater appropriately erupted.

For fans like me who had been waiting three years since Netflix canceled the series, this was the confirmation that Matt Murdock Daredevil was officially coming to the mcu. And I think it was also one of the most brilliant, quiet cameos in Marvel history.

There was no costume, no action sequence, just a single effortless gesture that told every Daredevil fan exactly who he is. Anyway, I could go on and on, but I won't. I already did.

I took all the correct entries, randomly selected one last week you were playing for a keychain, stickers pin, a patch and a mystery prize. And last week's winner, randomly selected, is Sonya Cervantes So Sonia, congratulations. I will get your prize package out to you right away.

And if you played last week and didn't win, that is okay because here's your next chance to enter in this week's Disney Trivia Challenge. So we're talking about origins and automation of different ride systems and vehicles in the Disney park starting in Disneyland.

Tell me, what was the first Disney attraction to use the Omnimover system? Simple. What Disney attraction was the first to use the Omnimover ride system? Now I'm going to give you until Sunday, April 19th.

This week you are going to once again play for the keychain, stickers, pin patch and a mystery prize that I'm going to bring you back from where I am going, which is why I'm going to give you extra time. I'm going on the Disney Adventure this week. I'm leaving on Thursday to head to the Disney Adventure.

I'm actually going to be doing back to back cruises because they're only three and four days. There's a lot to try and cover on the ship. Please stay tuned to my Instagram @Lumangella.

I'll be sharing a lot from original adventures on the adventures but I am going to give you extra time and of course I'm gonna have a full review on the podcast once I get back. So good luck and have fun. That is gonna do it for this week's show. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Roland.

There was I could have gone down so many more different avenues and rabbit holes with them.

I think was just a fascinating look into the origins and automations not just of Disneyland and all the other Disney parks but really a look ahead I think because history has a sort of way of repeating itself. Definitely go and check out the book.

I put a link in the show notes over@www.radio.com and if you enjoyed this episode, it made you smile, you learned something new. Please do me a favor, tell a friend and share it with them. Share a link to the episode on social and please be Ken.

Leave a question Quick review over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify you can talk more about this episode or anything you want in the Disney, Marvel and Star wars universe over in the WW radio clubhouse at WDWRadio.com/clubhouse. It is our fun friendly family friendly group.

Over on Facebook and if you want to continue to talk spoilers about Daredevil or anything else, go over to our spoiler support group at WDWRadio.com/spoilers please connect, chat and reach out to me on social media. I am LouMongello on Instagram, LinkedIn and Facebook.

And once again, because I am so incredibly and sincerely grateful to and for you and for allowing me to share what I love and what I do with you, I want to try and give back to you.

So if you're ready to take that next step and turn what you love into a real business with a clear plan, next steps and a real path to generating revenue, I would love to help you.

Whether it's with my momentum, we can workshop this October one on one coaching my virtual online monetization workshop, other things I'm working on, or even keynote speaking at your event, conference or business where I break down how the Disney Parks create world class customer service and experiences and how you can apply those same principles in your business of any size. You can learn more and reach out to me over@lou mongello.com in the meantime, don't forget I am heading to Singapore this week.

I'm going to be sharing a lot on my Instagram photos, stories and reels over @Lou Mongello. If there's something you want to know, something you want to see, please reach out to me. I'll make sure I cover it.

While I am there, I'm going to be heading out with Beci Mahnken from MEI and Mouse Fan Travel for all your vacation planning needs. So we're going to have a lot to talk about once we get back. In the meantime, please don't forget to be kind.

Choose the good, and more importantly, be the good. Set a good positive example others. You would not believe the ripple effect that positivity can have on the people around you.

In the meantime, have an amazing day. Even better, tomorrow I will see you on the live show. So until next time, I love and appreciate you. Really. Thank you. See you soon.