In this episode of the Burnout to All Out Podcast, Melissa sits down with longtime real estate investor and renovation expert Shelley Visser, an Elevate 360 mastermind member with nearly 30 years of house-flipping experience. Shelley pulls back the curtain on what really happens behind the drywall and why flipping houses is not a TV show, it’s a business.

From her first flip in 2008 right before the housing crash, to learning costly lessons through trial and error, Shelley shares the hard-earned systems, mindset shifts, and strategies that helped her flip with confidence instead of chaos. This conversation is equal parts practical, honest, and refreshingly real, especially for anyone considering flipping without a construction background.

If you’ve ever underestimated renovation timelines, ignored slush funds, or thought flipping would be “easy,” this episode is your wake-up call and your roadmap.

Takeaways

1. Flipping houses is a business, not a hobby or a TV episode
2. Most early mistakes come from not running the numbers correctly
3. Systems, checklists, and timelines are what reduce stress and risk
4. Market shifts, permit delays, and contractor issues must be planned for
5. Slush funds are non-negotiable because surprises will happen
6. Emotional decisions can quickly turn a flip into a loss
7. Community impact and neighborhood awareness matter in resale value
8. You don’t need construction skills, you need the right team and systems

Topics discussed in this episode:

1. real estate flipping as a business
2. risks and rewards of house flipping
3. after repair value (ARV) calculations
4. holding costs, taxes, and capital gains
5. contractor management and permit delays
6. market timing and real estate cycles
7. renovation systems and checklists
8. slush funds and risk mitigation
9. flipping without a construction background
10. running renovations with strategy instead of stress

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〉Get text updates by texting ALL OUT to +1 704-318-2285

Connect with Shelley via Email Here: shelley@frontdoorinvestments.ca

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Burnout to All Out. Fam, I am so excited for you all to get a chance to hear from the cream of the crop. These are our Burnout to All Out Elevate 360 mastermind clients who've been in my master, my high level mastermind all year this year. And we do a summit once a year with our mastermind clients to debut their zone of genius.

What is incredible is that these clients all embody a 360 degree approach to business. They all contribute in one way, or fashion as subject matter experts that contribute to the pillars of Elevate 360, which is truly that we believe that bodies build businesses and that we have to have business strategy and legacy strategy as well. And so what is really cool about these clients is that

through a series of a couple of days of a summit, they were able to highlight and bring value and educate in their fields, whether it was around self leadership, leadership in business, business strategies, energetics and mindset and or legacy and how we take what we're doing and make our money work harder than we did for it to create impact and legacy over time. And so they,

really embody all that represents the 360 degree approach to business and the burnout to all out through line of our mastermind. So over the next couple of episodes, you are gonna hear from all of these experts. You're gonna get the details to their work in the notes section. And hopefully you're inspired as well as to what is possible

too.

for you as an entrepreneur and scaling your businesses the way these incredible human beings have. So hope you enjoy the series. And really excited for you all to meet Shelley Visser today as another member of our Elevate 360 mastermind. She has seen more renovation disasters than a season of love it or list it and somehow still manages to laugh about it.

Shelley's been flipping houses for nearly 30 years. I love this Shelley you have before it was trendy and before it was televised and definitely before Pinterest made everything look easy, right? She's the brains behind the front door investments and rich girl renovators. And she's here to talk about what really happens behind the drywall. If you've ever cried in a Home Depot parking lot or screamed into a paint tray, buckle up.

Shelley's got the stories and the strategies. Flipping houses isn't just about paint colors and demo days, it's a business. And in this fast paced session, seasoned investor Shelley breaks down the real risks, rewards and key considerations behind every successful flip, learn how to evaluate deals, avoid costly mistakes.

and build a system that works so that you can flip with confidence, not chaos. I am so excited for you all to meet Shelley. That was her formal bio. The informal bio is that she is the humor in the mastermind. She brings the laugh, she brings the fun. I know you're just never at a, bringing light on any subject, even if we're into something deep, you know? And so Shelley, just so excited to have you here today and excited to...

hear from you and how we nail it or fail it, how to flip with strategy and not stress. So I am gonna pass the baton to you, because I know you're doing a presentation.

I am. Thank you so much for that amazing introduction. Wow. And Junior's presentation. It's amazing how much all of this aligns. Take this as hope because if the girl who can run a renovation business, who's not a contractor and not a techie can do this, anyone can do this. So let me just put that out there for you right now. So we'll get right into it because I do have quite a bit to go through.

And then I am a fast talker, so I know I had a time limit, but I always like to give extra minutes to myself because I know I'll talk it out anyways in that short time. wait a minute. We have to prep for the proper talk.

playing in the yard and it feels like the beginning of a great new journey. I worked with a realtor. She said she worked with investors and knew what they needed. I had helped design and build my first home. I'd managed apartment buildings. So I felt pretty confident that a simple house could easily be flipped. Heck, we watch HGTV and they say I can completely renovate a house in

One hour, including commercials. So at this point, I didn't know what I didn't know, and I felt invincible. As I walked up those stairs and I put the key into the lock, I turned it and I opened the door and the weight of what I had just done fell on me. All of a sudden, I had all those questions I hadn't actually thought of before. Where do I start?

What happens if something goes wrong? Will I get taken advantage of by a contractor? What if I make the wrong decisions and I lose money? Or worse, what if the house falls down? I thought I had enough knowledge to take that next step, but it quickly became clear to me I had enough knowledge to know I didn't know enough. And unbeknownst to me, two weeks later,

But inside my head, I knew I wasn't as efficient as I could be. And I was struggling to find trades and I allowed the words of others questioning my ability to affect me. That imposter syndrome, he was a beast and I had to daily knock him down. Then to add to my insecurities, I worked with the Property Brothers. Yeah, we were both flight attendants at a Canadian airline, but I had done more flips than they had.

but they left the company and went on to huge success. I allowed myself to believe I wasn't qualified enough or smart enough. I was single. They were twins. Did I need to partner with someone? But deep down, I knew I could do this. I just needed to figure out what needed to be better. So I then started spending hours reading.

thousands of dollars on courses, hundreds of thousands of dollars on trial and error on projects and missed opportunities. But I took those notes. I recorded what worked, what didn't work. I hired an assistant. She helped me get everything all organized, all the information, track the costs, the timelines, the material costs. And through that, I started realizing I had a system, a structure to follow. We had created a really easy

to follow checklists of what to do and when. It was a system that freed up my time, reduced my stress and the risk on how to complete a renovation. I had figured out the code to running a renovation and flipping as a business. Now when I go out with my realtor, a realtor that I know how to qualify and we find the right properties, I have the confidence in knowing how to make a decision quickly, knowing

It will be making money and I will know how to start the project before we take possession. I'll have the trades already lined up. I'll know the right products and the colors to use that will help sell the property quickly and that top dollar. and those property brothers, look out boys. There's a new sister in town. So let's dig right into it. Let me get my implies. There we go. So over the next 20 minutes,

I'm going to go through teaching the basics of understanding flipping. We're going to cover the risks and rewards, flipping fundamentals and some key considerations, but let's be real. Flipping is not for the faint of heart, but when done right, it is absolutely a game changer. So imagine standing in front of these three doors. Each one unlocks part of the journey to successful real estate flipping and what's behind them can make or break your investment.

So let's check out what's behind door number one. Risks and rewards. So flipping can absolutely be a game changer, but it's not a shortcut to riches. It is a business and like any business, it comes with real risks. So risks right off the bat. I think this is one that everyone looks at. Losing money. This picture was the moment that I realized that this quick cosmetic flip on a multimillion dollar property.

just became a very expensive structural one. So losing money is very much a risk. Hidden costs, taxes, utilities. Don't forget, there's also besides regular taxes of property taxes, you're going to have to pay potentially capital gains taxes like Junjur just talked about. What are the taxes that you'll owe in your government? Are you structured properly? What about permit delays? One of my projects,

I was after a building permit, which in Canada is two to three weeks while in Alberta where I live, it took six months. We literally could not do anything. And so when a project comes to a complete halt, you still have to pay all of those costs. What about bad contractors? Nobody's worried about a contractor. What happens if they miss your deadlines? Poor work. Have any of you had them actually disappear? That's a real problem.

What about market shifts? Timing matters. We always say buy low, sell high, but you can't control the economy. So have you actually planned for the market shifts? Are you aware of the real estate cycle? Have you even heard of the real estate cycle? Stress. Nobody has stress in a renovation or a flip. They're so easy, but mistakes happen and renovations rarely go perfectly.

And what if the demand shifts? All of a sudden you can't sell your project, then what? You need to be flexible to look at your alternatives and have you set up the alternatives if your project doesn't sell. And lack of skill. Flipping combines real estate construction, budgeting, leadership, knowledge, growth, accountability. It's not a small ask. You need to be open to learning and pivoting and growing.

We don't get into it all just because of the risks without the rewards. And the reason people get into flipping is because it can be a fantastic side hustle. You can do it while you're working your day job. It's a fantastic entry into real estate. If you don't have all of the funds to buy a livable rent ready or move in ready property, you can start smaller and build that equity and move it to project to project until you have enough for your own

property. There's a way to do something that's called the BIR strategy, which is called, it stands for build, renovate, refinance, rinse and repeat. And so using that strategy, it's a strong pathway into freedom through real estate. There are big profit margins. It's not uncommon to do 40 to $70,000 when you are experienced in doing it. And it's not unrealistic to do six digit figures.

in flipping with the right projects, but you have to be realistic and you have to know your numbers. One of my favorite ones is the community impact. I absolutely love taking that neglected home in the neighborhood, revitalizing it, bringing in new life, bringing in a family that brings joy to that neighborhood and elevating that area for everyone. So a community impact is a beautiful way to look at doing flipping. And as well, personal growth.

going to gain confidence, resilience. You're going to learn how to run a real business. So moving on under door number two, flipping sounds simple. You're gonna buy low, improve it, sell high, but it's literally all in the details. So what makes a good slip? It's a strong ARV, which is known as after repair value. This is your potential sale price. You don't guess, you calculate.

You want to look for a functional layout. You want to avoid layouts that require moving, plumbing or walls. Does it fit your strengths? If you're handy or experienced in an area, use that to your advantage. Here's a little pro tip here. Any property that you can do a really quick cleanup on is beneficial. It's going to help you reduce your risk and increase your cashflow on that project.

Hoarder homes are a beautiful way to do that. Quite often they just need cleanup and cosmetic work done and then you can flip it to someone who may want to do all of the bigger work. The one thing I do love about hoarder homes is you have somebody who is embarrassed to show that property out on the market and with compassion and empathy you can work with them to help them sell their home to you where you can come and take it over and work with them to be able to move on to a new place. So there is a beautiful way to take.

empathy, compassion, and move that into business of flipping. Another way to make a good flip is what can you do on the outside? That is very simple and clear. So this house actually, we've mixed up our pictures, but this is the after picture. So you'll see that it's all just painted. And up here, we remove the octagonal window and that was it. It was super easy to update this house.

That whole process costs less than $5,000. That is Canadian, so probably $1.50 American with the exchange rate right now. When to walk away. This is important to know. You cannot allow your emotions to get involved. It is a business. So are there high running costs that you cannot control? HOA fees, condo fees, are the taxes excessively high for that area?

You need to look at that because when you go to sell the project, others are going to be looking at those costs. Your buyers are going to look at them. So is it going to be hard for you to resell it?

Are there any major repairs? Grow ops, mold? Are you familiar with flat roofs or foundational cracks? Is this something that you're familiar enough with to know what those expenses could be and what they could grow to? Same with getting your plumbing lines scoped. If there's trees, has the line collapsed? That can be $150,000 repair on its own. What if your timeline is too long? Have you missed the market? Are you coming out during Christmas? Well, nobody buys a house at Christmas time.

You really need to be prepared for how long is your flip going to take you. And if you have to wait a month to put it on the market because of the time of year, can you afford that? Because that's coming out of your profits. What if it doesn't fit in with the neighborhood? Now, what do you mean by that, Shelley? Well, what if somebody decides, yes, they're going to paint their house Halloween colors. And yes, this was a house.

the other end of the block from one of my rental properties. Now as a buyer I would buy that house and paint it but I would not buy the house next door because it will be very difficult to sell that house next door. you do you do need to see what else is in the neighborhood and where the neighborhood is transitioning to whether it's improving or declining. Now this is next section is where experienced flippers separate themselves.

We're going to go into key considerations. And remember, it's not just the house that we're buying, it's the whole business. Remember, we keep focusing on flipping is a business. One of the things we need to do is analyze our deals and manage costs. So we want to look at how to manage our after repair value. How do we decide what that is? You'll find that there's many different ways to look at an ARV and after repair value.

I do mine very simplistically. You can do it however you'd like. But the way I do it is I take a look at what is the market area for a price that will sell. So this was actually one of my projects I did last year. And in that neighborhood, the average renovated house was $800,000. So looking at the house that I was purchasing, I realized in order to be able to sell it for $800,000, I needed to put in $165,000 into the renovation.

I then had to plan for the realtor cost of $30,000, holding cost of $42,000. And those holding costs are your taxes, your utilities. I had private money on it, so I had to allow the interest payments for that. I also have to make a profit. I don't work for free. On this project in this area, I put in my profit for $40,000. And then you always need to have a slush fund. Usually they recommend 10 to 15%, but I'm a very low risk flipper.

but I always do 20 % and your safety fund is actually off of your renovation budget. So for me, it's 20 % off of my renovation budget of 165,000. So when I take those expenses and deduct it from the after repair value of the house, that means the most I can pay for that house is $490,000. And that's a great place for me to understand and know, is this even a viable project? Because if you have a seller that is trying to sell for far more, the numbers don't make sense.

So it's not emotional, it's just business. As it turned out, the seller on this property only wanted $4.75. We negotiated terms, not the price, because for me, I didn't need to knock him down. It was a fair price already. And so what I did instead was that I will give you your $4.75, however, will you carry the house? And what was beautiful about this situation was that I had to, put zero money down, made zero payments to him, no interest on the...

purchase price. So when I was done the project and sold it, that's when he got his purchase price. So that was a fantastic deal because that added additional funds to my profit for me. Another option you need to look at is know your financing options before you go into your negotiations. Most A-line banks in Canada will not finance a flip. So you need to find secondary options. In the US, I'm not 100 % sure

on who will all finance those. Julie will be speaking after myself, I believe, and she's a mortgage broker, so she would be able to advise you on your US options. But most times, it is better to use private money anyways, just because it's quicker to get in and out. You're not having to deal with as many hoops to jump through to get that financing. But also be sure to learn to say no. No to deals that don't fit your numbers, no matter how tempting they look.

Remember, it's not personal, this is business. Then we want to make sure that our project management is set up properly. We want to make sure that our templates, checklists and timelines are consistent, that we are using them appropriately and adjusting and adapting them. We want to be bulk buying. There's a huge cost savings. As well, when you bulk buy, not only are you getting that bulk savings, but I can carry those leftovers to the next project, so I'm not worrying about writing off leftover.

flooring tiles or paint. It's just far more efficient and costly or cost savings. I also pay my designer once a year to come in to update all of my colors and materials that I'm using. Sometimes you can reuse a plan or an idea of a plan, but by having my designer come in once a year, I'm only paying once and then going back to the bulk buying, I'm using those same finishes on every project going forward. What are some of our sales strategies?

You need to monitor your comps throughout your renovation. You need to see what's coming up for sale. What are people buying? Is it renovated or non renovated? This way you can adjust as you go along. Before you list your property, make sure you go out and see your competition. And yes, you need to actually walk in those homes. It's very different walking through them than seeing them in a picture on your Realtor website. And know your buyer.

Knowing your buyer will determine how deep or intensive your renovations will be. It'll also determine who you're marketing to to buy your property and then make sure you're listing at the right time because sometimes you do just need to hang on and wait because unforeseen situations have come up and you're not in the timeline you want. Hence why your slush fund is there to help you list at the best time.

So flipping has risks, but it also has incredible opportunities. It sounds so easy, buy, improve, sell. The best deals happen when you combine the right property, the right timing with the right plan. It's not a TV show, it's a business. And when you treat it like one, that's when the real magic happens. So if you're sitting there right now thinking, this sounds amazing, but I still don't know how to start.

Well, lucky for you, I have a plan. Your next step could be to join me for the Flipping Fundamentals Masterclass. If any of this talk sparks something in you, whether it's curiosity, inspiration, or the realization you don't want to figure this all out alone, then join me for, sorry, join me for my complimentary Flipping Fundamentals Masterclass that is coming up. We're actually going to go through the real risks

that sink flips. We're going to see what makes a deal actually worth flipping. We're going to learn how to run your business or your numbers like a business owner. We don't want you being a hobbyist. You're going to see the systems I use to streamline your renovations, manage your trades, avoid decision fatigue and reduce your stress. Nobody wants to be on site 24 seven. We're also going to cover how to time your sale, price it right and stage for profit. Even if you're in a ship.

shifting market. So how do you get in? Scan that QR code. If you can't scan it because you're on your phone, then click on that link or copy that link. Come join me on the complimentary Flipping Fundamentals Masterclass. Let's go deeper into some of these topics that we've gone through. Let this be the first step through a door that does lead to something bigger because, yeah, flip happens, but when you do it right,

Flip success happens too.

So good, Shelley. Oh my gosh. You know what's funny? We were in the chat with a couple of you that are Canadian and I'm like, you guys just need to come, you're all meet in Miami. Like, and there's just a couple of weeks. So check out the chat. There's some great conversation, but I have two follow-up questions for you before we wrap up, if you're okay with that.

Absolutely.

And the first one is if someone's interested in flipping but doesn't have a background in construction or real estate, I know you, you know, you didn't either, right? Like you, you were a flight attendant, right? Is it still?

I'm turning in single mom. So gone half the month.

Yeah, yeah. So is that something they can still succeed at? Because I know I'm just calling out the resistance that some people are having to this right now, right? Saying, well, I don't have experience in any of these areas, right?

Absolutely. you know, it's so, here's great English, so much easier today. When I started 30 years ago, there was very few women in in construction anyways. So I had to overcome a lot of those biases. I had to work so much harder. I had people who didn't take me seriously or I had the grandpas that patted me on my head. you're so sweet. Let me just take care of this for you. Nowadays, we have so many women in the traits and whether you're a woman or not a woman,

Even if you're a contractor, you know how to do your job, but you don't necessarily know how to run flipping as a business. And there's a big difference on that. And for those of you thinking, how can I do this? I did it when I was gone 50 % of the month. And as a single mom trying to be there for my kids for the two weeks that I was home spread. And those two weeks are actually a few days here and there spread out through the month. And that's where your systems and processes come into place. And that's where also learning from professionals will.

You don't need to know how to set up a toilet. You need to know who the right person is. You need to learn how to interview them properly. That's what's important. We're running the business. We're not running on the tools.

Yeah, that's such a really good point. Like learning how to delegate and kind of have build your kind of team of support, right? So what's the biggest misconception that people have about flipping houses, especially when they're just starting out? What's the biggest misconception?

that it'll be far easier than they think it is. And those of us that are in it are making it a much bigger deal than it is. And they don't realize the value of running it like a business. And I know I feel like I sound like a broken record, but I seem to be the only one in the industry. It's this huge passion for me of teaching people to run it like a business. Because if you don't run it like a business, that's where you get into trouble because you haven't run your numbers correctly. You haven't looked at the market correctly. You haven't looked at the real estate.

cycle correctly. And so all of a sudden when one thing goes wrong, you don't have your support system. And so in the program, when we're working together, you have a support system, just like with yourself, unless in your program, if anybody has a question, we can reach out to others. You're not doing it alone. Don't feel like you're a silo out there. And so the misconception is it's easier and it won't take that long, but you never know what surprise a house will give you. And I literally do that every time I walk through a house.

I walk through it room by room and I go, what surprise are you gonna give me this time? And it's not that I haven't done inspections. Some of the houses I do inspection on, some I don't. I don't suggest that until you're very experienced. But even inspections will not show everything. So on that house where I showed you at the very beginning where the roof was taken off, we had roofing quotes done. It was a flat roof. We knew that there was 0 % grade. Flat roofs should have a 2 % grade. What we didn't know is that he had put

four layers of shingles on top of each other every time there was a hole. Yeah. And then because it didn't drain, because it was at 0%, he also cranked a hole in the center so water could drain down into the house into a drain. So as we're tearing apart the house, all of a I was like, oh my goodness, we need to not only put in slope, but we need to fix drainage.

And now there's mold. We've got to remove all of these shingles and ash fall. It was a disaster. So my $35,000 roof went to $150,000. So slush funds, people, slush funds. And when you talk about crying at Home Depot, I may not have cried. may have. Because some days you just need it.

my goodness. Okay, so this has been, you guys learning? Are you learning so much? Like between investing out of the country to you can flip a house even if you're new at it, right? There's ways, there's a million ways to Sunday to create and multiply your income, right? Shelley, thank you so much. Final question for you before we take a quick break as a member of Elevate 360.

How have you embodied the 360 degree approach to life and business that's made you such a successful entrepreneur?

I'm not gonna give you guys all the sunshine and roses answer, because that's not who I am. I'm very blunt and upfront about it. You can't embody it all at the same time. You just can't. And you guys have seen me, it's been like, I'm sorry, I can't get this part-time because I am in the weeds. And even preparing for this presentation, I had a timeline set up and then two of my multi-million dollar projects sold on the same day a week and a half ago. Well,

There went my schedule because I had a lot of work to do to prepare them for the turnover. Even though I have an assistant, there is still things I need to do. really what I look at it as is be flexible with what you have going on. You're going to run your business. You're going to run your personal life. You're going to run your health, your spirituality, all of it. But it can't all be done at the same time. It's just like balance. You can never go, okay, so for two hours I'm going to do work.

and then half an hour I'm gonna go for a walk and then I'll spend an hour with my kid. You can't do that. So I see it more as slots, but be very intentional about scheduling the other aspects. So if you're suddenly focused on one area because you have to be, make sure then you plan some downtime. So I actually took the weekend off, went out to the lake with my girlfriend. Yes, I should have done my presentation, but I've done it. I had it already done, but I needed that downtime.

because I'd been spending so much time on business, I needed to mentally stay healthy so I could also be healthy for here and for all of you. So I see the 360 just like the world is 360, it has seasons. It's not every season all on the same day generally unless you're in Calgary, Alberta where I am, but most places it's timelines, right? So that's how I see it.

love that. And you know, one of the words that really resonates for me is harmony, right? And I really operate kind of like an accordion, right? Like where there's like these condensed timeframes that are pressure cookers, but I know that it has a finite deadline, right before. And I think that's the thing to be really cons like conscientious of is when we are in a growth season is

knowing when enough is enough, right? When it's no longer a season and you've turned it into like just a life habit, right? I think that's the catch, right? Is like knowing and making an agreement with yourself that like this is a season. Cause listen, you and I both know this Shelley, right? We don't build empires through doing it slowly, right? Growth takes momentum.

And I'll be the first to tell you that it has taken burning the midnight oil and like burning the candle at both ends in seasons because growth in business happens that way. You're not gonna get there, know, pacing yourself out. But I love what you said about having that scheduled block, like having that agreement with yourself of like, here's where there's diminishing returns.

And when I need to make an agreement with myself that this season has got to stop, right? Yeah. So, so good, Shelley. So, so good. I hope you found this episode as inspirational and kick ass as I enjoyed interviewing with it. If you love this and you resonated with it, please reach out, reach out to the speakers. Their information is in the notes.

feel free to reach out to us. And as always, if you're curious about mentorship and support and business coaching under the Burnout to All Out umbrella, go to burnouttoallout.co and check out what we have going on in the business mentorship world today, including business coaching and retreats that are live and experiential and take a 360 degree approach to business.

We can't wait to see you on the other side wherever we collide.