In this episode of 'No Shame in the Home Game,' we dive into the world of paper management. As usual, we bring different perspectives - one of us is a paper hater, while the other is a paper lover. We discuss the mental fatigue that comes with managing various forms of paper, from mail to important documents. We share our personal stories, strategies for handling paper clutter, and even brainstorm potential solutions like using a desktop scanner. We also touch on the importance of having a clear system for managing critical documents and the challenges of sharing paper management responsibilities with a spouse. Tune in as we explore tips, hacks, and the joys (or lack thereof) of dealing with paper at home.

00:00 Introduction to Paper Management

00:19 Lacey and Sara's Paper Preferences

00:56 The Struggles of Paper Management

02:11 Types of Paper to Manage

03:23 Important Documents and Their Challenges

04:25 Real-Life Paper Management Stories

08:34 Ad break

08:43 Strategies for Processing Paper

10:47 Dealing with Paper as a Household

14:52 Finding Joy in Paper Management

16:16 Practical Tips for Managing Paper

17:23 Exploring Dopamine Rewards

18:39 Filing Hacks and Scanning Solutions

19:45 Macro vs. Micro Filing

23:17 Home Management for Neurodiversity

24:17 Ad Break

25:40 Chores and Independence for Kids

31:19 Gratitude and Personal Updates

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Notion

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares

2

how your home feels, not looks.

3

I am Lacey, your host who

hates paper with a passion.

4

I try to get rid of as much paper

as possible in my household.

5

We're talking about

paper management today.

6

with, my co host who I know is

pro paper in some ways, Sara.

7

Sara: Hi, Lacey, that was such

a funny, continuation of our yin

8

and yang, like you hate paper.

9

I love paper.

10

It's true.

11

I do love paper.

12

I will not walk by a paper store.

13

I love to go in.

14

So much about paper that I love.

15

I'm all about paper books.

16

Lacey: love the idea of paper.

17

Let me just say.

18

I love the idea of a paper book.

19

I love the idea of stationery.

20

Don't like the reality of it,

which is what we're talking about

21

today, of the management of it.

22

It's just too much stuff.

23

Sara: Yes.

24

And here is where the audience is

going to be in for a surprise twist.

25

I feel like I have to confess this.

26

For as much as I love home management,

paper management is my Achilles heel.

27

and I felt I could hide that fact

and act like I'm an expert in

28

everything, but the whole point of

no shame in the home game is there is

29

no shame in the home game.

30

So what I did was I walked

myself through the steps, which

31

is what we'll talk about here.

32

And I am working on

identifying what my hiccup is.

33

So I'm going to go

ahead and do a call out.

34

If anyone out there is a paper management

maven, I beg of you to reach out to us.

35

We will do a part two to this episode and

we will hear all of your tips and tricks.

36

Cause I would love that.

37

what I discovered and what I know

about myself is I love Bigger

38

movements like doing the laundry.

39

I don't care about carrying

it downstairs moving it over

40

I don't care about cleaning.

41

I like it You get to see the before and

after I don't mind doing things that take

42

a lot of physical input Paper management

to me is so much more mental we've talked

43

about it before, how I get mentally

fatigued before I get physically fatigued.

44

let's get clear first on

what paper management is.

45

So first and foremost,

46

mail.

47

Lacey: I'm sorry.

48

That was me like being angry at mail.

49

Sara: I was like, wait,

does Lacey not get mail?

50

Is that how much she dislikes paper?

51

Lacey: No, I get mail and I hate it.

52

Sara: So mail is the biggest one.

53

And then after that.

54

It's like everything you bring home.

55

So I don't know why they

still like all the receipts.

56

Like you go to a doctor's office

and they print you off like a

57

fricking book of stuff, which

why do I have an online portal?

58

If you're going to hand

me 10 pages of paper.

59

Lacey: That's what I've started doing,

is I use MyChart, I'm good, thank you.

60

Sara: They print it out before I

even sit down, but I will start

61

yelling no across the room.

62

and then like receipts from the gas

station, the grocery store, they print

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out those little paper coupons, right?

64

And then there's the paper that

you receive from, if you have kids.

65

that's its own situation of paper.

66

Reminder notes, field trip notes, art,

like pieces of paper, like tests or

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artwork or crafts, that's its own thing.

68

I do much better with that actually.

69

So that's all the paper.

70

Am I missing anything

71

with paper?

72

Lacey: there's like the important

papers, like social security, birth

73

certificates, those kinds of things.

74

They don't always come through

the mail, but they're like the

75

papers that you need to hold on to.

76

Like for example, Joe and I

are going on a trip in October.

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And the amount of times I've had to

put in a passport number, but you

78

don't just need the passport number.

79

You need the expiration date too.

80

Those kinds of like papers

that you have to keep.

81

Important papers.

82

Sara: Yes.

83

And that's so interesting.

84

I kind of skipped over that one.

85

All my important papers go in a

firebox, so I always know where

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they are

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Lacey: I like to think I know where

they are, but then literally we just

88

had to reorder a passport for Joe

because we could not find his passport.

89

I thought I had a system, I thought I knew

where everything was, and then I went into

90

the system and guess what's not there?

91

Joe's passport.

92

other people can influence things.

93

We'll just say that.

94

Sara: My neighbor.

95

Oh my goodness.

96

It's so great.

97

We're like the pressure release

valves for one another when something

98

happens She was getting everyone

ready for this gigantic family trip.

99

And by gigantic, so many family members

were going on this cruise and they

100

were going to stop at other countries.

101

So they had to have their passports,

but they didn't have to have their

102

passports to get the tickets.

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So it was very much a this is

what we need to pack before we go.

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and there, Place where they keep

documents is maintained by her husband.

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It's like some big wall safe, So

she hands those over to her husband

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who puts them in the wall safe.

107

So it comes time to

get ready for the trip.

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And she asks her husband to go get them.

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And he goes, okay, can you

tell me where they are?

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And she's I gave them to

you to put in the safe.

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And it's 48 hours before they're supposed

to leave on their trip and there's this

112

frantic scrambling of, no, I did my job

and I told you to put it in the safe.

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You didn't do your job

and put it in the safe.

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And now you're handing the buck back

to me and asking me to find them.

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They ended up finding like four

of the five of them and then there

116

was one and it was just like Maybe

one person just doesn't get to go.

117

They ended up finding It wasn't

where it was supposed to be but

118

it was 48 hours of stress before a

119

trip And that goes back to the basic

premise of like home management is

120

to make your life easier So that

you can enjoy life So when you're

121

getting ready for a trip, you

want to be in that pre trip bliss.

122

You just want to be like

thinking about your trip.

123

You don't want to be 48 hours scrambling.

124

Lacey: I have a filing cabinet

that I'm this is where things go.

125

I have a file for each of us and you

think it would have been in there.

126

Sara: I'm going to laugh

really hard when you do a fall.

127

This is like the coffee maker.

128

Like one day you're going to find

129

Lacey: Oh, we absolutely are.

130

That is, that has been our MO in

this, in our move of we can't find

131

something, And then when we least expect

it, it just pops up out of nowhere.

132

I just know it's going to pop up.

133

Sara: I can't wait for you to open

my box of crackers and Jill's gonna

134

be like, Oh, yeah, I put it in there

because nobody would think to look

135

in a box of crackers for my passport

136

Lacey: Honestly, my favorite

part is us both like trying to

137

Sherlock Holmes in our head.

138

Like the last time we saw it,

cause I am a feeler, right?

139

So I remember like a

feeling associated with it.

140

And I was like, I remember

the last time you had it.

141

It was a time where it was like

overkill for you to bring it and

142

I was annoyed that you brought it.

143

And now we can't find it.

144

So as far as I'm concerned,

145

And so then I was like, okay, when

would I have felt annoyed by that?

146

Sara: All right access the annoyed

catalog let's go back Marriage is so funny

147

marriage is not what you expect it to be.

148

But anyways Okay, so important

documents is its own category.

149

Yes very much agree with that.

150

Lacey: I do want to point out though,

is that important documents sounds like

151

it should be easy, but it's that reset,

it's the putting it back, that's the

152

hard part of using it, getting it out,

using it, and then putting it back.

153

The putting it back,

that's where it gets messy.

154

Sara: I am just over the moon

excited that you use the term reset

155

because that's one of my favorite

words and you're absolutely right.

156

So anyone and this is where it's I

wish I could get people like starting

157

off like right in the beginning of

starting a household with other people.

158

It's okay people.

159

It's not just about getting the passport.

160

From the government.

161

It's about keeping track

of it and Resetting it back

162

to your important document

163

place.

164

So the next time you go on a trip,

you don't have to Sherlock Holmes it

165

Lacey: I think that's an interesting

way of just thinking about,

166

we should probably do a travel

episode now that I'm saying it.

167

Because unpacking and

packing, it's a whole thing.

168

Sara: It is a whole thing and if you

read the last newsletter, you know

169

that I just got back from camping

Coming home is it's own Is its own

170

beast you're trying to recreate life

171

Lacey: In a harder place.

172

No thanks.

173

Sara: i'm so glad this I I don't

know why I thought it would be dry.

174

It's not it's us.

175

It's not dry so Going back So for

me I said it's not my strong suit

176

So I was like, okay, let's identify

what works well and what doesn't.

177

That's the first step in this process.

178

And I thought there's in my

mind, there's three categories

179

of paper coming in the house

180

So I'm not talking about

important documents.

181

Well, that might be part of

the process pile, but okay.

182

I have recycle, which means

straight into recycling.

183

I don't need to do anything with it.

184

so much of my mail,

straight into recycling.

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And I have it very easily

accessible, so that's okay.

186

And then I have shred, which,

that's up in my office, which

187

is not the greatest flow plan.

188

But it's just where it is.

189

So shred recycling.

190

So that takes up, that's

two of the three steps.

191

And then I'm left with processing.

192

And again, I've said it before,

and maybe I need to change my tune.

193

Processing is boring.

194

That's why that's the step

that doesn't get done.

195

Lacey: as you were

talking, I have a question

196

Sara: Yeah.

197

Lacey: Are you able to process everything?

198

Let's, for example, anywhere

that I can say paperless, do

199

not send me stuff paperless.

200

Old Broseph does not necessarily do that.

201

And so we'll get some things in the

mail that I'm like, I don't know what

202

to do with this because I have this

paperless and you have to take care

203

of this because this is your thing.

204

And I refuse to take it on.

205

Which if I did take it on, it probably

would be less of a problem, but

206

I'm refusing to out of principle.

207

And so what ends up happening is I

process my stuff quickly because I know

208

what I do and what I don't need, but I

then end up with this pile of things to

209

be processed that he needs to process.

210

And then it just never happens Eventually,

I just get mad and throw things away.

211

Sara: that's a whole other aspect to

this, which is, I'm coming at it from

212

that, mentality of being the home's

213

CEO, where paper management.

214

It's actually all under my purview.

215

I'm actually not delegating that because

I do have this magical ability to like,

216

Lacey: Yeah.

217

Sara: And so if I'm parsing that out

with my spouse, the amount of energy it

218

takes for me to then tag him into the

process and tag out, over the years,

219

I realized when there's two situations

of pain, I can identify as which is

220

more painful, me taking over his paper

management or me constantly tagging

221

him in and out of paper management.

222

And so for me, I was able to identify it

is more painful tagging him in and out.

223

I am going to surrender to the fact

that I am better at this and that I

224

don't want to keep playing this game.

225

Lacey: Yeah, I think that's fair.

226

I think part of the problem that

I have is that I think I process

227

things differently than him.

228

And so then I'm constantly second

guessing myself of do we need this?

229

Would he want to see, that's a

whole different conversation.

230

Sara: I was going to say this is like

a whole different episode of joint

231

paper management.

232

So I think part of what worked for me

is that my spouse was also very much

233

willing to surrender that to me as well.

234

So there was no resistance on either side.

235

And what I'm hearing you say is

there are actually two different

236

desires, outcomes, processes.

237

Like you guys are actually just in

two different camps on everything.

238

Lacey: it's unpredictable when

we're in two different camps.

239

Sara: Oh, Yeah.

240

and let's be clear, in

241

paper management, there's

so many departments with

242

marriage, we're just talking

243

about paper management.

244

to, maybe we'll have a part three

for paper management where we talk

245

about how do you do it with a spouse.

246

So, recycling, shredding,

and then processing.

247

So for me, it's not that the

processing, and this is what I go

248

through with my clients as well.

249

So this is a good journey of exploration.

250

So let me ask you, Lacey, when you

sit down, let's say you do get paper,

251

you haven't made a paper list, you do

have paper and you have to process.

252

Do you do it as needed?

253

Meaning like once it fills up a basket?

254

Do you do it like on a

once a week type thing?

255

how do you process the paper that does end

up in your house that's not in Joe's pile?

256

Lacey: Ideally, I would

do it as it comes in.

257

That would be, what I

would say my ideal is.

258

And I do maybe about a third to half

the time where it's okay, what is this?

259

This is a bill that needs to get paid.

260

That is not electronic.

261

I have a pile of to be done

stuff and that it goes there.

262

and then I take that pile probably

like once a week or so, and then

263

do the stuff associated with it.

264

But then the other part of the time

is, sorry, I just, I know how bad this

265

is going to sound as it comes out.

266

I get bitter, and I'm like, I

have to go through this pile, and

267

half of it's not even for me, and

so I'll just let the pile sit.

268

And then the pile gets out of

control, and then, randomly I'll

269

get angry and take care of it.

270

Yeah.

271

Sara: No shame at all because as you were

talking I was like, why don't I do it?

272

I too, there's no before and after fun.

273

there's no reward to it.

274

Like I talk about when you buy a

house, it is so fun to pick out a

275

new couch and be like, I'm going

to spend money on a new couch.

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I get to sit on it.

277

It's beautiful.

278

It makes me happy.

279

It is not fun to spend

money on electrical.

280

yes, you have electricity, but

most of what they do is behind

281

a wall and you can't see it.

282

And you're like, I don't get to see

my 2, 000 worth of electrical work

283

other than the lights are working.

284

So I feel like paper

management for me is that.

285

There's nothing to see.

286

There's nothing to get joy from.

287

Like when I mow the lawn, I can See that

it's mode I can relate to you on that.

288

So maybe I just need to

give myself a reward.

289

Lacey: part of me, I don't know how

to like, is shredding joyful for you?

290

Because part of me thinks

shredding sounds kind of fun.

291

Sara: definitely I definitely

do get joy from shredding

292

because the pile goes from a

293

pile to nothing and I do

actually enjoy that part.

294

What I really don't like and I'm realizing

too is because I like to be in motion.

295

I will get rid of emails while I'm

walking on the treadmill because

296

I had to pair it with something.

297

So when I'm doing paper

management, I'm just sitting there.

298

it's making the phone call.

299

It's logging into the portal.

300

That's not taking your, password,

even though you reset it.

301

And then it's like that monotonous,

there's no dopamine, lift

302

anywhere in the process, right?

303

Lacey: yes, I get that.

304

But part of me is I feel like there

could be, like if it's a physical

305

pile and you get to see as you take

care of things, The pile goes down.

306

Sara: Yes.

307

Okay.

308

So I'm going to try to hack this.

309

Lacey: Ooh, yeah.

310

Sara: And then I got to

relish in it being empty.

311

that's maybe where I have to

make it part of the process.

312

Cause I've tried to hack

this many different ways.

313

Yeah, maybe I'm gonna go find a

really, really pretty container.

314

And then when it's empty,

315

Lacey: There's like a smiley

face or a picture of a bird

316

at the bottom or something.

317

Sara: Oh, I'm gonna do some like adulting

318

Lacey: Yeah.

319

Sara: At the bottom.

320

Where do you keep your paper?

321

Where does it sit?

322

Lacey: I'm getting better.

323

I just want to say I'm getting better.

324

And still not great.

325

what usually happens is mail

and stuff come in with Joe and

326

the kids at the end of the day.

327

And it lands somewhere on

countertop kitchen table arena.

328

And then I usually process it by getting

rid of the things that need to get rid of.

329

I've started recruiting the kids.

330

Like last night, Isaac came

in and he was like, here, mom.

331

This is the piece of mail we got today.

332

And I was like, great, bud.

333

Just go throw it away because it

was like a Cruise catalog that's

334

not even really addressed to us.

335

So I'm trying to get them involved

because they do love to be a part of

336

things and then if it's something that

needs to be taken care of it's supposed

337

to go into a Mail sorter thing that's

on one of our countertops And then the

338

idea is that I take what needs to be

processed up into the office or wherever

339

I'm going to process it and then do that.

340

And then it gets thrown away or shredded

341

Sara: I just realized

I love these details.

342

I could talk to a hundred people

and ask them this question.

343

Like I want to hear how everyone does

it because I'm just so intrigued.

344

So I'm coming back for me problem solving.

345

I'm just like I need to pair it along with

having that Pretty bucket that makes me

346

happy and there's something at the bottom.

347

I need that dopamine reward and

everything I keep coming back to is

348

like food, which I'm like no Mama

doesn't need to be putting more food in

349

your pile But like what other dopamine

reward could I give myself like when

350

you finish all your mail for the week?

351

You get to, I need something.

352

Lacey: there, I'm thinking of it more as

a co thing, is there a podcast that you

353

really look forward to listening to that

you could listen to while you're doing it

354

Sara: So that's the thing is I

actually, when I'm processing,

355

I need all of my brain.

356

Lacey: Okay.

357

Sara: If I'm just sorting, if I'm like

just opening, when I shred certain

358

things, I don't shred the envelope if I

359

don't have to.

360

So I'll open it and pull it apart.

361

I can do that while I'm

listening to a podcast.

362

But when I'm actually doing

the thinking part, I need

363

Lacey: So it truly needs to be an after.

364

Sara: Yes.

365

And I use, sometimes I can do that

with a show that I'm watching, but then

366

you finish the show and then you're

like, I don't have a show anymore.

367

I'll keep pondering that.

368

I do want to give out a filing hack

that a friend introduced me to.

369

I would put the stuff that was done.

370

I'm like, okay, I've dealt with

this, but I do need to keep

371

this record for whatever reason.

372

I'm going to put it in my filing

pile and my filing pile would

373

get

374

out of control because

I never wanted to do the

375

filing.

376

Lacey: I will say, one thing that I'm

considering doing as we're talking is

377

getting one of those desktop scanners.

378

And just, I'm just going to

start scanning everything in.

379

And go from there, because I think I

might actually accomplish things better.

380

Because if something's digital, it

is easier for my brain to process it.

381

Sara: Yes, and I definitely know people

who do that and that is like just so

382

easy for them they just scan

it and then it's gone for me.

383

I am more of a paper person.

384

Lacey: What

385

if, hold on.

386

What if that's the solution

for me and Joe as well?

387

Of I'll scan it for you, I get rid of

the actual paper, and then you have

388

a, he has like a digital mail inbox.

389

I'm gonna look up scanners right now.

390

I'm listening.

391

I'm just too excited to

not look up a scanner.

392

Sara: Real time solution

problem solving I love this.

393

So the filing hack that a friend

introduced me to was Macro filing versus

394

micro filing so micro filing would

be This is a medical document for the

395

one person who lives in your house.

396

this is the warranty for this

very specific thing in the house.

397

It goes in the house folder.

398

So instead of doing that,

she would do it by year.

399

So everything that happened in that

400

So instead of doing it by event or person.

401

It would be by year.

402

And boy, oh boy, has that cut

down my filing time Dramatically.

403

Because the amount of time you

actually have to go back and get that

404

document, you're keeping everything

405

just in case.

406

Lacey: I think that's part of

the reason why I get so mad

407

because it's just in case of what?

408

Who's gonna care?

409

Sara: I This is so funny where

I get to take the, I am the pro

410

just, I'm the, I am the just

411

in case gal.

412

Like I really am.

413

just in case of what?

414

Yeah.

415

Sometimes, like when we went to work with

our financial planner, we needed such a

416

slew of documents that were so obscure.

417

And I was like, Oh, I actually have all

of those, And so I was able to go back

418

and make a pile, I can easily see how if

you're a scanner girl, that would be super

419

easy to pull those all up from scanning.

420

I will be honest, I keep more

just in case than I need to,

421

Lacey: Yeah.

422

Sara: but that makes me feel good.

423

But I also, and this is where I'm using

home management for everyone tips.

424

I have a very defined limit.

425

what I'm going to keep.

426

I have a filing cabinet and I am

never going to get a bigger filing

427

cabinet.

428

It is two drawers.

429

So when that baby is full, and I

keep all of our manuals in there too.

430

Do you keep manuals?

431

Lacey: not really.

432

If I had my, again, if

I had my choice, no.

433

Sara: I'm very, no wonder I'm,

no wonder I'm such a big Joe fan.

434

I'm realizing how similar we are.

435

I keep all of our manuals.

436

I keep all of Yeah, I keep a lot of stuff.

437

But when the drawer, we talked about

like during the clothes episode,

438

when you realize you're having to

push into your drawer to get it

439

shoved closed, when I start getting

to that point, I'm like, okay, I got

440

to go through the filing cabinet.

441

And then instead of getting another filing

cabinet, I just clear out what I can.

442

Maybe that's what I need to lean into.

443

I like the throwing out part.

444

That feels good.

445

I think what I'm really distilling

it down to, it's just that

446

part of life that is necessity,

sometimes being an adult is boring.

447

Lacey: being an adult is

448

so boring.

449

Sara: Sometimes, I just

don't want to admit that.

450

Lacey: It's so boring.

451

Sara: I can still remember as

a little kid, I was so excited

452

when the mail would come.

453

I'm a kid from the 80s, so it was

just, that was really exciting.

454

the catalogs, I had a pen

455

pal, And, I'm all excited that

my dad would bring it in, and I

456

remember this one time, I was like,

Oh my god, that's so exciting!

457

You get so much mail!

458

And he's they're bills.

459

Do you hear, do you want my bills?

460

and my dad's actually

like a very upbeat guy.

461

And so it was a very stark contrast.

462

I was like, Oh, male gets

not fun as you get older.

463

Oh yeah.

464

Again, call out to our audience.

465

If you know of anyone who is

just like a paper management

466

ninja, I would love to hear.

467

I want to say I do have a lot more

sympathy for my clients who have executive

468

functioning challenges because our

expert Corey And in, Home Management for

469

Neurodiversity, you can learn more about

this, how and I think about this all

470

the time, if you think about the input

needed to do a task for somebody without

471

neurodiversity, I think about it like

being at the arcade, you're like, oh,

472

to play this game, you need two tokens.

473

that's how much motivation

it takes to do a task.

474

But when you're neurodiverse,

it can be like, Oh, this

475

game needs 20 tokens to even

476

get started.

477

And I can really feel that when

it comes to paper management

478

Oh, I need 20 tokens to start.

479

But for neurodiverse folks, that's

every single task that is doing

480

the laundry, washing the dishes.

481

Making a grocery list, going to

the grocery, that is every single

482

task is 20 tokens for them.

483

And so

484

if anything it gives me

sympathy, which is good.

485

Lacey: So I've been working on home

management for everyone as a notion

486

template I've been working on it a lot

lately and little bits of especially

487

with meal planning, I've got some stuff

that I'm really excited about that I've

488

been working with, and I'm like, oh.

489

This can go into Notion as like tasks

and wait for things to be handled and

490

then certain documents, there's a way

that we can say, yes, this needs to go

491

in the HOM, for the manual, so I want to

find something that allows me to do that.

492

I'm, I am getting nerd excited

over here and I need to wait.

493

Sara: oh that's

494

very exciting.

495

I was just thinking about the

scanner, like I can't wait to get

496

an update to see if that is the

solution for all of the Joe mail.

497

Lacey: Isaac gets excited about things.

498

How fun would it be for a

kid to be feeding a scanner?

499

I think he would actually

really like that.

500

Sara: and I'm going to go ahead and plug.

501

I think we've mentioned we're bringing

out home management for kids in the

502

fall, and it's what the basic

premise is about bite sizing task.

503

you're not giving them the task of paper

management, but yeah, if you can give

504

your child the task of putting something

in the recycle bin or when they're old

505

enough, scanning a document, not only are

they helping with the workload, they're

506

also understanding, Oh, these are things

I'm going to have to do when I manage

507

my own space.

508

Lacey: Isaac's starting

kindergarten in a couple of weeks

509

and it's a half day kindergarten.

510

he and I chatted and since I work

from home, I'm like, okay, bud.

511

I'm going to give you the option that

you don't have to go to a before and

512

after school program because I work from

home and I will be here, but that does

513

mean that you're going to have to be

productive and independent during Some

514

of that time that you're here and it's

not time for kindergarten Joe and I were

515

talking last night about really coming

up with some because Isaac if he could

516

he would be on his tablet or watch shows

or play video games the whole time and

517

I'm like we can't have that because we

are very liberal in when they get to use

518

that stuff when it's outside of school,

because when they're in school, they

519

don't do those things at all, right?

520

So that's usually been my, go to in

the back of my mind of, okay, it's

521

okay if they're doing that most of

the time here when we're not out

522

and about, because they're not doing

it all these other times, right?

523

Joe and I last night, I was like,

we're going to have to come up

524

with some structure and things.

525

And one of the things I was thinking

about is that he's going to have a chore

526

that he has to accomplish every morning.

527

Cause he's going to be in PM kindergarten.

528

he's going to get picked up around

like 11 ish, Cause he does good with a

529

schedule and having to do certain things.

530

so I think having a task for

him every morning will be good.

531

I'm like, this can be one of his

tasks that I think he would enjoy.

532

It's technology, but it's pretty,

contributing to the household, I'm

533

pretty, pretty jazzed for that.

534

And I think you're right.

535

Cause like you said, as a kid, I

was like, look at all this mail.

536

This is so much fun.

537

And I guess learn early that it's not fun,

538

Sara: And this is not related to paper

management, but this, I do have an

539

idea, are you interested in my idea of

setting Isaac up for success with morning

540

chores?

541

Okay.

542

Thank you.

543

This happened by accident for me.

544

I am actually not a great artist,

but when my son was really

545

little and he started, co k.

546

he was really little and I needed

help getting him ready in the morning.

547

Like I needed him to be accountable

548

for steps to get on the

bus at a certain time.

549

And so he didn't know how

to read and write yet.

550

So I actually took a piece

of paper, pretty big and I

551

drew out and I made blocks.

552

And so I made the blocks of all the

steps that he needed to do in the

553

morning and I did it loosely in order.

554

I had a picture of cereal

and I just drew it.

555

and then I did right underneath.

556

I wrote breakfast and then I drew her

toothbrush and I wrote brush teeth.

557

So I had out all of the steps he had

to do to get himself ready because kids

558

need direction.

559

They're not going to

remember all those things.

560

So when he would say, what's next?

561

I would point to the refrigerator

and he would just go through them.

562

Like I've done this

one, I've done this one.

563

Oh, I need to do this one.

564

And so part of his morning chores,

which has evolved as he's gotten

565

older, but he takes the deposit cans.

566

So in New York state,

we have deposit cans.

567

So they go in a separate bag.

568

he can carry the cans to the deposit

bin, and then he would empty the

569

dishwasher, all of the, plastic.

570

So nothing sharp, nothing breakable.

571

And he would empty those out,

I would write AM chores, and

572

then I had a little drawing.

573

And Trust me, every single morning I

had to redirect him to it, but once

574

he was back at that, he could actually

self direct what chore was next.

575

so that might be fun for him

if he, if you're like, what

576

should we draw in this square?

577

And then he can be

578

part of that

579

Lacey: he would really like that.

580

So I've got, you've given me some ideas.

581

I like it.

582

Sara: I always kept

583

that on the fridge.

584

And what's funny is when he got to

an age where I thought he was old

585

enough and I got rid of it, quickly

learned that was still a useful tool.

586

We didn't need the pictures anymore,

but we did need a list of the steps.

587

Because as I learned, when you

become a teenager, your executive

588

functioning actually regresses.

589

Lacey: Okay.

590

Sara: okay, but back to paper management.

591

conclusion, or next steps,

Lacey's gonna find a scanner.

592

Very excited to hear if this is

a solution for the Joe situation.

593

I'm gonna find something really

pretty to put the papers in.

594

I'm gonna try to make that process

as enjoyable as possible and try

595

to find something to pair it with

that is very much happy for me.

596

because the processing is

boring, but it very much

597

has to be done.

598

And piling it up doesn't make it easier.

599

I

600

Lacey: We're getting rid of everything!

601

Sara: love rage cleans!

602

I love it!

603

So much gets done in such a small amount

604

Lacey: It does.

605

Do the people around you love rage cleans?

606

Sara: They've learned to be out of

earshot when they happen, because

607

otherwise, They just get tasks and chores.

608

Mine aren't as much rage fueled as

they are just like adrenaline fueled.

609

this is all happening in the next 15

minutes, but I'm not really mad, but

610

you will get a task if I see you.

611

Lacey: yeah, I understand that.

612

And then I don't know if you get

this, but every once in a while I'll

613

get, Do I have to do it right now?

614

Yes!

615

you do.

616

Ooh,

617

Sara: when did you think I

meant for that to get done?

618

why are you still sitting there?

619

Nobody ever asked me,

did you mean right now?

620

I meant five minutes ago.

621

Yes.

622

what Lacey, what are you

thankful for this week?

623

Lacey: a lot.

624

Listeners, I don't know if you

follow me on social media, you

625

know, I am unexpectedly pregnant

in the greatest way possible.

626

I'm very excited about it.

627

Joe's very excited.

628

We're all, excited and blessed

about it, but it's a lot.

629

And one of the reasons why I was

preventing pregnancies because I was

630

scared of what pregnancy would look

like for me as my chronically ill self.

631

And I don't want to mean

scared as like worried about my

632

health or anything like that.

633

I'm not like, it's going

to be whatever it is.

634

It's more of my capacity to do.

635

That's what made me nervous.

636

And this week I am so grateful

for the people around me to let

637

me be whatever I needed to be.

638

So I have been in one of the largest

rest periods of my life the past two

639

weeks because, if you know anything

about being in your first trimester

640

of pregnancy, you're exhausted.

641

And when you have that on top of ME

CFS and changing up medications because

642

you're pregnant and all of these different

things, I've been in a place of real rest.

643

Not only have I not fought it, which is

huge for me, but the people around me,

644

including Sara, and Joe, and everybody

around me, has let me lean into it.

645

And that has been a really profound

thing for me in a lot of ways Something

646

I've never really let myself do before.

647

And to know that I can and I should, and

that everyone supports me in that is just,

648

I know it sounds so like nebulous of a

thing, but it is so visceral to me right

649

now in the moment of how it feels and

that it feels good and it feels right.

650

It makes me even more optimistic about,

all of the things that are to come for me.

651

that's what I'm grateful for.

652

Sara: I am very happy for you

because I know what a big step

653

that is.

654

for You to accept and then to

actually follow through with the rest.

655

So I'm happy for you.

656

so mine, very different.

657

I don't know if you can see

I'm wearing new glasses.

658

Lacey: are!

659

Sara: I also have

prescription sunglasses now.

660

And boy, do I feel like a superhero

when I put them on and I can see

661

so darn clearly, I feel like I

have superpowers and I love it.

662

I am at this age now where I

need prescription sunglasses.

663

And I'm trying more to lean into

wow, I can see so clearly now.

664

This is amazing.

665

And same with these glasses, I have

a new computer set up, so I had to

666

get them adjusted for the distance.

667

And same thing, I'm like, wow,

everything is so sharp and so clear.

668

Lacey: Isn't it amazing how

you just, realize, oh, life

669

didn't have to be harder.

670

And look at it being easier.

671

This is amazing.

672

Sara: I am thankful for, I have an

amazing eye doctor who is, Great.

673

And she's patient cause I'm a bit

of a unicorn with my eye needs

674

and she's funny and she's great.

675

So I'm thankful for her.

676

I'm just, I'm thankful for glasses.

677

I think back to the day when like

they didn't have eyeglasses for people

678

or if they did, it was like, Okay.

679

Here's something, but it's not

specific to the person, And I just

680

think about all the headaches and all

the eye strain Oh, I'm so thankful.

681

I live in a day and age where

I get exactly what I need.

682

Lacey: I think that's really beautiful.

683

Because it's your view of the world.

684

It's how you take in the world.

685

Absolutely.

686

Sara: So I'm thankful for eyeglasses.

687

Lacey: Me too.

688

I'm thankful for you.

689

Sara: thank you, Lacey.

690

It was good to

691

Lacey: Thank you

692

Sarah.