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Paper Management: Strategies for Tackling Paper Clutter
Episode 17 • 23rd August 2024 • No Shame In The Home Game • Joyful Support Movement
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In this episode of 'No Shame in the Home Game,' we dive into the world of paper management. As usual, we bring different perspectives - one of us is a paper hater, while the other is a paper lover. We discuss the mental fatigue that comes with managing various forms of paper, from mail to important documents. We share our personal stories, strategies for handling paper clutter, and even brainstorm potential solutions like using a desktop scanner. We also touch on the importance of having a clear system for managing critical documents and the challenges of sharing paper management responsibilities with a spouse. Tune in as we explore tips, hacks, and the joys (or lack thereof) of dealing with paper at home.

00:00 Introduction to Paper Management

00:19 Lacey and Sara's Paper Preferences

00:56 The Struggles of Paper Management

02:11 Types of Paper to Manage

03:23 Important Documents and Their Challenges

04:25 Real-Life Paper Management Stories

08:34 Ad break

08:43 Strategies for Processing Paper

10:47 Dealing with Paper as a Household

14:52 Finding Joy in Paper Management

16:16 Practical Tips for Managing Paper

17:23 Exploring Dopamine Rewards

18:39 Filing Hacks and Scanning Solutions

19:45 Macro vs. Micro Filing

23:17 Home Management for Neurodiversity

24:17 Ad Break

25:40 Chores and Independence for Kids

31:19 Gratitude and Personal Updates

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Transcripts

Lacey:

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares

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how your home feels, not looks.

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I am Lacey, your host who

hates paper with a passion.

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I try to get rid of as much paper

as possible in my household.

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We're talking about

paper management today.

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with, my co host who I know is

pro paper in some ways, Sara.

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Sara: Hi, Lacey, that was such

a funny, continuation of our yin

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and yang, like you hate paper.

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I love paper.

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It's true.

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I do love paper.

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I will not walk by a paper store.

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I love to go in.

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So much about paper that I love.

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I'm all about paper books.

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Lacey: love the idea of paper.

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Let me just say.

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I love the idea of a paper book.

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I love the idea of stationery.

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Don't like the reality of it,

which is what we're talking about

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today, of the management of it.

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It's just too much stuff.

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Sara: Yes.

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And here is where the audience is

going to be in for a surprise twist.

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I feel like I have to confess this.

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For as much as I love home management,

paper management is my Achilles heel.

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and I felt I could hide that fact

and act like I'm an expert in

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everything, but the whole point of

no shame in the home game is there is

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no shame in the home game.

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So what I did was I walked

myself through the steps, which

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is what we'll talk about here.

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And I am working on

identifying what my hiccup is.

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So I'm going to go

ahead and do a call out.

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If anyone out there is a paper management

maven, I beg of you to reach out to us.

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We will do a part two to this episode and

we will hear all of your tips and tricks.

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Cause I would love that.

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what I discovered and what I know

about myself is I love Bigger

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movements like doing the laundry.

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I don't care about carrying

it downstairs moving it over

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I don't care about cleaning.

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I like it You get to see the before and

after I don't mind doing things that take

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a lot of physical input Paper management

to me is so much more mental we've talked

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about it before, how I get mentally

fatigued before I get physically fatigued.

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let's get clear first on

what paper management is.

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So first and foremost,

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mail.

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Lacey: I'm sorry.

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That was me like being angry at mail.

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Sara: I was like, wait,

does Lacey not get mail?

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Is that how much she dislikes paper?

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Lacey: No, I get mail and I hate it.

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Sara: So mail is the biggest one.

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And then after that.

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It's like everything you bring home.

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So I don't know why they

still like all the receipts.

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Like you go to a doctor's office

and they print you off like a

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fricking book of stuff, which

why do I have an online portal?

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If you're going to hand

me 10 pages of paper.

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Lacey: That's what I've started doing,

is I use MyChart, I'm good, thank you.

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Sara: They print it out before I

even sit down, but I will start

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yelling no across the room.

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and then like receipts from the gas

station, the grocery store, they print

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out those little paper coupons, right?

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And then there's the paper that

you receive from, if you have kids.

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that's its own situation of paper.

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Reminder notes, field trip notes, art,

like pieces of paper, like tests or

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artwork or crafts, that's its own thing.

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I do much better with that actually.

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So that's all the paper.

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Am I missing anything

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with paper?

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Lacey: there's like the important

papers, like social security, birth

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certificates, those kinds of things.

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They don't always come through

the mail, but they're like the

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papers that you need to hold on to.

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Like for example, Joe and I

are going on a trip in October.

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And the amount of times I've had to

put in a passport number, but you

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don't just need the passport number.

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You need the expiration date too.

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Those kinds of like papers

that you have to keep.

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Important papers.

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Sara: Yes.

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And that's so interesting.

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I kind of skipped over that one.

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All my important papers go in a

firebox, so I always know where

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they are

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Lacey: I like to think I know where

they are, but then literally we just

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had to reorder a passport for Joe

because we could not find his passport.

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I thought I had a system, I thought I knew

where everything was, and then I went into

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the system and guess what's not there?

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Joe's passport.

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other people can influence things.

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We'll just say that.

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Sara: My neighbor.

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Oh my goodness.

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It's so great.

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We're like the pressure release

valves for one another when something

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happens She was getting everyone

ready for this gigantic family trip.

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And by gigantic, so many family members

were going on this cruise and they

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were going to stop at other countries.

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So they had to have their passports,

but they didn't have to have their

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passports to get the tickets.

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So it was very much a this is

what we need to pack before we go.

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and there, Place where they keep

documents is maintained by her husband.

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It's like some big wall safe, So

she hands those over to her husband

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who puts them in the wall safe.

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So it comes time to

get ready for the trip.

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And she asks her husband to go get them.

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And he goes, okay, can you

tell me where they are?

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And she's I gave them to

you to put in the safe.

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And it's 48 hours before they're supposed

to leave on their trip and there's this

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frantic scrambling of, no, I did my job

and I told you to put it in the safe.

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You didn't do your job

and put it in the safe.

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And now you're handing the buck back

to me and asking me to find them.

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They ended up finding like four

of the five of them and then there

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was one and it was just like Maybe

one person just doesn't get to go.

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They ended up finding It wasn't

where it was supposed to be but

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it was 48 hours of stress before a

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trip And that goes back to the basic

premise of like home management is

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to make your life easier So that

you can enjoy life So when you're

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getting ready for a trip, you

want to be in that pre trip bliss.

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You just want to be like

thinking about your trip.

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You don't want to be 48 hours scrambling.

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Lacey: I have a filing cabinet

that I'm this is where things go.

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I have a file for each of us and you

think it would have been in there.

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Sara: I'm going to laugh

really hard when you do a fall.

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This is like the coffee maker.

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Like one day you're going to find

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Lacey: Oh, we absolutely are.

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That is, that has been our MO in

this, in our move of we can't find

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something, And then when we least expect

it, it just pops up out of nowhere.

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I just know it's going to pop up.

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Sara: I can't wait for you to open

my box of crackers and Jill's gonna

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be like, Oh, yeah, I put it in there

because nobody would think to look

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in a box of crackers for my passport

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Lacey: Honestly, my favorite

part is us both like trying to

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Sherlock Holmes in our head.

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Like the last time we saw it,

cause I am a feeler, right?

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So I remember like a

feeling associated with it.

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And I was like, I remember

the last time you had it.

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It was a time where it was like

overkill for you to bring it and

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I was annoyed that you brought it.

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And now we can't find it.

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So as far as I'm concerned,

this is:

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And so then I was like, okay, when

would I have felt annoyed by that?

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Sara: All right access the annoyed

catalog let's go back Marriage is so funny

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marriage is not what you expect it to be.

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But anyways Okay, so important

documents is its own category.

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Yes very much agree with that.

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Lacey: I do want to point out though,

is that important documents sounds like

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it should be easy, but it's that reset,

it's the putting it back, that's the

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hard part of using it, getting it out,

using it, and then putting it back.

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The putting it back,

that's where it gets messy.

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Sara: I am just over the moon

excited that you use the term reset

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because that's one of my favorite

words and you're absolutely right.

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So anyone and this is where it's I

wish I could get people like starting

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off like right in the beginning of

starting a household with other people.

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It's okay people.

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It's not just about getting the passport.

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From the government.

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It's about keeping track

of it and Resetting it back

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to your important document

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place.

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So the next time you go on a trip,

you don't have to Sherlock Holmes it

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Lacey: I think that's an interesting

way of just thinking about,

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we should probably do a travel

episode now that I'm saying it.

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Because unpacking and

packing, it's a whole thing.

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Sara: It is a whole thing and if you

read the last newsletter, you know

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that I just got back from camping

Coming home is it's own Is its own

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beast you're trying to recreate life

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Lacey: In a harder place.

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No thanks.

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Sara: i'm so glad this I I don't

know why I thought it would be dry.

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It's not it's us.

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It's not dry so Going back So for

me I said it's not my strong suit

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So I was like, okay, let's identify

what works well and what doesn't.

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That's the first step in this process.

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And I thought there's in my

mind, there's three categories

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of paper coming in the house

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So I'm not talking about

important documents.

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Well, that might be part of

the process pile, but okay.

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I have recycle, which means

straight into recycling.

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I don't need to do anything with it.

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so much of my mail,

straight into recycling.

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And I have it very easily

accessible, so that's okay.

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And then I have shred, which,

that's up in my office, which

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is not the greatest flow plan.

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But it's just where it is.

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So shred recycling.

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So that takes up, that's

two of the three steps.

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And then I'm left with processing.

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And again, I've said it before,

and maybe I need to change my tune.

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Processing is boring.

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That's why that's the step

that doesn't get done.

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Lacey: as you were

talking, I have a question

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Sara: Yeah.

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Lacey: Are you able to process everything?

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Let's, for example, anywhere

that I can say paperless, do

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not send me stuff paperless.

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Old Broseph does not necessarily do that.

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And so we'll get some things in the

mail that I'm like, I don't know what

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to do with this because I have this

paperless and you have to take care

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of this because this is your thing.

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And I refuse to take it on.

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Which if I did take it on, it probably

would be less of a problem, but

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I'm refusing to out of principle.

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And so what ends up happening is I

process my stuff quickly because I know

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what I do and what I don't need, but I

then end up with this pile of things to

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be processed that he needs to process.

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And then it just never happens Eventually,

I just get mad and throw things away.

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Sara: that's a whole other aspect to

this, which is, I'm coming at it from

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that, mentality of being the home's

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CEO, where paper management.

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It's actually all under my purview.

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I'm actually not delegating that because

I do have this magical ability to like,

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Sara: And so if I'm parsing that out

with my spouse, the amount of energy it

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takes for me to then tag him into the

process and tag out, over the years,

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I realized when there's two situations

of pain, I can identify as which is

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more painful, me taking over his paper

management or me constantly tagging

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him in and out of paper management.

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And so for me, I was able to identify it

is more painful tagging him in and out.

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I am going to surrender to the fact

that I am better at this and that I

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don't want to keep playing this game.

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Lacey: Yeah, I think that's fair.

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I think part of the problem that

I have is that I think I process

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things differently than him.

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And so then I'm constantly second

guessing myself of do we need this?

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Would he want to see, that's a

whole different conversation.

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Sara: I was going to say this is like

a whole different episode of joint

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paper management.

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So I think part of what worked for me

is that my spouse was also very much

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willing to surrender that to me as well.

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So there was no resistance on either side.

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And what I'm hearing you say is

there are actually two different

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desires, outcomes, processes.

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Like you guys are actually just in

two different camps on everything.

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Lacey: it's unpredictable when

we're in two different camps.

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Sara: Oh, Yeah.

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and let's be clear, in

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paper management, there's

so many departments with

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marriage, we're just talking

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about paper management.

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to, maybe we'll have a part three

for paper management where we talk

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about how do you do it with a spouse.

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So, recycling, shredding,

and then processing.

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So for me, it's not that the

processing, and this is what I go

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through with my clients as well.

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So this is a good journey of exploration.

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So let me ask you, Lacey, when you

sit down, let's say you do get paper,

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you haven't made a paper list, you do

have paper and you have to process.

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Do you do it as needed?

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Meaning like once it fills up a basket?

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Do you do it like on a

once a week type thing?

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how do you process the paper that does end

up in your house that's not in Joe's pile?

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Lacey: Ideally, I would

do it as it comes in.

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That would be, what I

would say my ideal is.

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And I do maybe about a third to half

the time where it's okay, what is this?

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This is a bill that needs to get paid.

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That is not electronic.

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I have a pile of to be done

stuff and that it goes there.

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and then I take that pile probably

like once a week or so, and then

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do the stuff associated with it.

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But then the other part of the time

is, sorry, I just, I know how bad this

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is going to sound as it comes out.

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I get bitter, and I'm like, I

have to go through this pile, and

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half of it's not even for me, and

so I'll just let the pile sit.

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And then the pile gets out of

control, and then, randomly I'll

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get angry and take care of it.

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Yeah.

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Sara: No shame at all because as you were

talking I was like, why don't I do it?

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I too, there's no before and after fun.

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there's no reward to it.

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Like I talk about when you buy a

house, it is so fun to pick out a

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new couch and be like, I'm going

to spend money on a new couch.

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I get to sit on it.

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It's beautiful.

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It makes me happy.

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It is not fun to spend

money on electrical.

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yes, you have electricity, but

most of what they do is behind

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a wall and you can't see it.

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And you're like, I don't get to see

my 2, 000 worth of electrical work

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other than the lights are working.

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So I feel like paper

management for me is that.

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There's nothing to see.

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There's nothing to get joy from.

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Like when I mow the lawn, I can See that

it's mode I can relate to you on that.

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So maybe I just need to

give myself a reward.

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Lacey: part of me, I don't know how

to like, is shredding joyful for you?

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Because part of me thinks

shredding sounds kind of fun.

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Sara: definitely I definitely

do get joy from shredding

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because the pile goes from a

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pile to nothing and I do

actually enjoy that part.

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What I really don't like and I'm realizing

too is because I like to be in motion.

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I will get rid of emails while I'm

walking on the treadmill because

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I had to pair it with something.

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So when I'm doing paper

management, I'm just sitting there.

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it's making the phone call.

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It's logging into the portal.

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That's not taking your, password,

even though you reset it.

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And then it's like that monotonous,

there's no dopamine, lift

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anywhere in the process, right?

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Lacey: yes, I get that.

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But part of me is I feel like there

could be, like if it's a physical

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pile and you get to see as you take

care of things, The pile goes down.

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Sara: Yes.

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Okay.

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So I'm going to try to hack this.

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Lacey: Ooh, yeah.

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Sara: And then I got to

relish in it being empty.

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that's maybe where I have to

make it part of the process.

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Cause I've tried to hack

this many different ways.

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Yeah, maybe I'm gonna go find a

really, really pretty container.

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And then when it's empty,

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Lacey: There's like a smiley

face or a picture of a bird

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at the bottom or something.

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Sara: Oh, I'm gonna do some like adulting

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Sara: At the bottom.

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Where do you keep your paper?

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Where does it sit?

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Lacey: I'm getting better.

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I just want to say I'm getting better.

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And still not great.

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what usually happens is mail

and stuff come in with Joe and

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the kids at the end of the day.

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And it lands somewhere on

countertop kitchen table arena.

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And then I usually process it by getting

rid of the things that need to get rid of.

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I've started recruiting the kids.

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Like last night, Isaac came

in and he was like, here, mom.

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This is the piece of mail we got today.

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And I was like, great, bud.

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Just go throw it away because it

was like a Cruise catalog that's

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not even really addressed to us.

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So I'm trying to get them involved

because they do love to be a part of

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things and then if it's something that

needs to be taken care of it's supposed

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to go into a Mail sorter thing that's

on one of our countertops And then the

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idea is that I take what needs to be

processed up into the office or wherever

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I'm going to process it and then do that.

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And then it gets thrown away or shredded

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Sara: I just realized

I love these details.

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I could talk to a hundred people

and ask them this question.

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Like I want to hear how everyone does

it because I'm just so intrigued.

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So I'm coming back for me problem solving.

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I'm just like I need to pair it along with

having that Pretty bucket that makes me

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happy and there's something at the bottom.

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I need that dopamine reward and

everything I keep coming back to is

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like food, which I'm like no Mama

doesn't need to be putting more food in

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your pile But like what other dopamine

reward could I give myself like when

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you finish all your mail for the week?

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You get to, I need something.

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Lacey: there, I'm thinking of it more as

a co thing, is there a podcast that you

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really look forward to listening to that

you could listen to while you're doing it

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Sara: So that's the thing is I

actually, when I'm processing,

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I need all of my brain.

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Lacey: Okay.

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Sara: If I'm just sorting, if I'm like

just opening, when I shred certain

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things, I don't shred the envelope if I

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don't have to.

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So I'll open it and pull it apart.

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I can do that while I'm

listening to a podcast.

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But when I'm actually doing

the thinking part, I need

363

:

Lacey: So it truly needs to be an after.

364

:

Sara: Yes.

365

:

And I use, sometimes I can do that

with a show that I'm watching, but then

366

:

you finish the show and then you're

like, I don't have a show anymore.

367

:

I'll keep pondering that.

368

:

I do want to give out a filing hack

that a friend introduced me to.

369

:

I would put the stuff that was done.

370

:

I'm like, okay, I've dealt with

this, but I do need to keep

371

:

this record for whatever reason.

372

:

I'm going to put it in my filing

pile and my filing pile would

373

:

get

374

:

out of control because

I never wanted to do the

375

:

filing.

376

:

Lacey: I will say, one thing that I'm

considering doing as we're talking is

377

:

getting one of those desktop scanners.

378

:

And just, I'm just going to

start scanning everything in.

379

:

And go from there, because I think I

might actually accomplish things better.

380

:

Because if something's digital, it

is easier for my brain to process it.

381

:

Sara: Yes, and I definitely know people

who do that and that is like just so

382

:

easy for them they just scan

it and then it's gone for me.

383

:

I am more of a paper person.

384

:

Lacey: What

385

:

if, hold on.

386

:

What if that's the solution

for me and Joe as well?

387

:

Of I'll scan it for you, I get rid of

the actual paper, and then you have

388

:

a, he has like a digital mail inbox.

389

:

I'm gonna look up scanners right now.

390

:

I'm listening.

391

:

I'm just too excited to

not look up a scanner.

392

:

Sara: Real time solution

problem solving I love this.

393

:

So the filing hack that a friend

introduced me to was Macro filing versus

394

:

micro filing so micro filing would

be This is a medical document for the

395

:

one person who lives in your house.

396

:

this is the warranty for this

very specific thing in the house.

397

:

It goes in the house folder.

398

:

So instead of doing that,

she would do it by year.

399

:

So everything that happened in that

calendar year would go in the:

400

:

So instead of doing it by event or person.

401

:

It would be by year.

402

:

And boy, oh boy, has that cut

down my filing time Dramatically.

403

:

Because the amount of time you

actually have to go back and get that

404

:

document, you're keeping everything

405

:

just in case.

406

:

Lacey: I think that's part of

the reason why I get so mad

407

:

because it's just in case of what?

408

:

Who's gonna care?

409

:

Sara: I This is so funny where

I get to take the, I am the pro

410

:

just, I'm the, I am the just

411

:

in case gal.

412

:

Like I really am.

413

:

just in case of what?

414

:

Yeah.

415

:

Sometimes, like when we went to work with

our financial planner, we needed such a

416

:

slew of documents that were so obscure.

417

:

And I was like, Oh, I actually have all

of those, And so I was able to go back

418

:

and make a pile, I can easily see how if

you're a scanner girl, that would be super

419

:

easy to pull those all up from scanning.

420

:

I will be honest, I keep more

just in case than I need to,

421

:

Lacey: Yeah.

422

:

Sara: but that makes me feel good.

423

:

But I also, and this is where I'm using

home management for everyone tips.

424

:

I have a very defined limit.

425

:

what I'm going to keep.

426

:

I have a filing cabinet and I am

never going to get a bigger filing

427

:

cabinet.

428

:

It is two drawers.

429

:

So when that baby is full, and I

keep all of our manuals in there too.

430

:

Do you keep manuals?

431

:

Lacey: not really.

432

:

If I had my, again, if

I had my choice, no.

433

:

Sara: I'm very, no wonder I'm,

no wonder I'm such a big Joe fan.

434

:

I'm realizing how similar we are.

435

:

I keep all of our manuals.

436

:

I keep all of Yeah, I keep a lot of stuff.

437

:

But when the drawer, we talked about

like during the clothes episode,

438

:

when you realize you're having to

push into your drawer to get it

439

:

shoved closed, when I start getting

to that point, I'm like, okay, I got

440

:

to go through the filing cabinet.

441

:

And then instead of getting another filing

cabinet, I just clear out what I can.

442

:

Maybe that's what I need to lean into.

443

:

I like the throwing out part.

444

:

That feels good.

445

:

I think what I'm really distilling

it down to, it's just that

446

:

part of life that is necessity,

sometimes being an adult is boring.

447

:

Lacey: being an adult is

448

:

so boring.

449

:

Sara: Sometimes, I just

don't want to admit that.

450

:

Lacey: It's so boring.

451

:

Sara: I can still remember as

a little kid, I was so excited

452

:

when the mail would come.

453

:

I'm a kid from the 80s, so it was

just, that was really exciting.

454

:

the catalogs, I had a pen

455

:

pal, And, I'm all excited that

my dad would bring it in, and I

456

:

remember this one time, I was like,

Oh my god, that's so exciting!

457

:

You get so much mail!

458

:

And he's they're bills.

459

:

Do you hear, do you want my bills?

460

:

and my dad's actually

like a very upbeat guy.

461

:

And so it was a very stark contrast.

462

:

I was like, Oh, male gets

not fun as you get older.

463

:

Oh yeah.

464

:

Again, call out to our audience.

465

:

If you know of anyone who is

just like a paper management

466

:

ninja, I would love to hear.

467

:

I want to say I do have a lot more

sympathy for my clients who have executive

468

:

functioning challenges because our

expert Corey And in, Home Management for

469

:

Neurodiversity, you can learn more about

this, how and I think about this all

470

:

the time, if you think about the input

needed to do a task for somebody without

471

:

neurodiversity, I think about it like

being at the arcade, you're like, oh,

472

:

to play this game, you need two tokens.

473

:

that's how much motivation

it takes to do a task.

474

:

But when you're neurodiverse,

it can be like, Oh, this

475

:

game needs 20 tokens to even

476

:

get started.

477

:

And I can really feel that when

it comes to paper management

478

:

Oh, I need 20 tokens to start.

479

:

But for neurodiverse folks, that's

every single task that is doing

480

:

the laundry, washing the dishes.

481

:

Making a grocery list, going to

the grocery, that is every single

482

:

task is 20 tokens for them.

483

:

And so

484

:

if anything it gives me

sympathy, which is good.

485

:

Lacey: So I've been working on home

management for everyone as a notion

486

:

template I've been working on it a lot

lately and little bits of especially

487

:

with meal planning, I've got some stuff

that I'm really excited about that I've

488

:

been working with, and I'm like, oh.

489

:

This can go into Notion as like tasks

and wait for things to be handled and

490

:

then certain documents, there's a way

that we can say, yes, this needs to go

491

:

in the HOM, for the manual, so I want to

find something that allows me to do that.

492

:

I'm, I am getting nerd excited

over here and I need to wait.

493

:

Sara: oh that's

494

:

very exciting.

495

:

I was just thinking about the

scanner, like I can't wait to get

496

:

an update to see if that is the

solution for all of the Joe mail.

497

:

Lacey: Isaac gets excited about things.

498

:

How fun would it be for a

kid to be feeding a scanner?

499

:

I think he would actually

really like that.

500

:

Sara: and I'm going to go ahead and plug.

501

:

I think we've mentioned we're bringing

out home management for kids in the

502

:

fall, and it's what the basic

premise is about bite sizing task.

503

:

you're not giving them the task of paper

management, but yeah, if you can give

504

:

your child the task of putting something

in the recycle bin or when they're old

505

:

enough, scanning a document, not only are

they helping with the workload, they're

506

:

also understanding, Oh, these are things

I'm going to have to do when I manage

507

:

my own space.

508

:

Lacey: Isaac's starting

kindergarten in a couple of weeks

509

:

and it's a half day kindergarten.

510

:

he and I chatted and since I work

from home, I'm like, okay, bud.

511

:

I'm going to give you the option that

you don't have to go to a before and

512

:

after school program because I work from

home and I will be here, but that does

513

:

mean that you're going to have to be

productive and independent during Some

514

:

of that time that you're here and it's

not time for kindergarten Joe and I were

515

:

talking last night about really coming

up with some because Isaac if he could

516

:

he would be on his tablet or watch shows

or play video games the whole time and

517

:

I'm like we can't have that because we

are very liberal in when they get to use

518

:

that stuff when it's outside of school,

because when they're in school, they

519

:

don't do those things at all, right?

520

:

So that's usually been my, go to in

the back of my mind of, okay, it's

521

:

okay if they're doing that most of

the time here when we're not out

522

:

and about, because they're not doing

it all these other times, right?

523

:

Joe and I last night, I was like,

we're going to have to come up

524

:

with some structure and things.

525

:

And one of the things I was thinking

about is that he's going to have a chore

526

:

that he has to accomplish every morning.

527

:

Cause he's going to be in PM kindergarten.

528

:

he's going to get picked up around

like 11 ish, Cause he does good with a

529

:

schedule and having to do certain things.

530

:

so I think having a task for

him every morning will be good.

531

:

I'm like, this can be one of his

tasks that I think he would enjoy.

532

:

It's technology, but it's pretty,

contributing to the household, I'm

533

:

pretty, pretty jazzed for that.

534

:

And I think you're right.

535

:

Cause like you said, as a kid, I

was like, look at all this mail.

536

:

This is so much fun.

537

:

And I guess learn early that it's not fun,

538

:

Sara: And this is not related to paper

management, but this, I do have an

539

:

idea, are you interested in my idea of

setting Isaac up for success with morning

540

:

chores?

541

:

Okay.

542

:

Thank you.

543

:

This happened by accident for me.

544

:

I am actually not a great artist,

but when my son was really

545

:

little and he started, co k.

546

:

he was really little and I needed

help getting him ready in the morning.

547

:

Like I needed him to be accountable

548

:

for steps to get on the

bus at a certain time.

549

:

And so he didn't know how

to read and write yet.

550

:

So I actually took a piece

of paper, pretty big and I

551

:

drew out and I made blocks.

552

:

And so I made the blocks of all the

steps that he needed to do in the

553

:

morning and I did it loosely in order.

554

:

I had a picture of cereal

and I just drew it.

555

:

and then I did right underneath.

556

:

I wrote breakfast and then I drew her

toothbrush and I wrote brush teeth.

557

:

So I had out all of the steps he had

to do to get himself ready because kids

558

:

need direction.

559

:

They're not going to

remember all those things.

560

:

So when he would say, what's next?

561

:

I would point to the refrigerator

and he would just go through them.

562

:

Like I've done this

one, I've done this one.

563

:

Oh, I need to do this one.

564

:

And so part of his morning chores,

which has evolved as he's gotten

565

:

older, but he takes the deposit cans.

566

:

So in New York state,

we have deposit cans.

567

:

So they go in a separate bag.

568

:

he can carry the cans to the deposit

bin, and then he would empty the

569

:

dishwasher, all of the, plastic.

570

:

So nothing sharp, nothing breakable.

571

:

And he would empty those out,

I would write AM chores, and

572

:

then I had a little drawing.

573

:

And Trust me, every single morning I

had to redirect him to it, but once

574

:

he was back at that, he could actually

self direct what chore was next.

575

:

so that might be fun for him

if he, if you're like, what

576

:

should we draw in this square?

577

:

And then he can be

578

:

part of that

579

:

Lacey: he would really like that.

580

:

So I've got, you've given me some ideas.

581

:

I like it.

582

:

Sara: I always kept

583

:

that on the fridge.

584

:

And what's funny is when he got to

an age where I thought he was old

585

:

enough and I got rid of it, quickly

learned that was still a useful tool.

586

:

We didn't need the pictures anymore,

but we did need a list of the steps.

587

:

Because as I learned, when you

become a teenager, your executive

588

:

functioning actually regresses.

589

:

Lacey: Okay.

590

:

Sara: okay, but back to paper management.

591

:

conclusion, or next steps,

Lacey's gonna find a scanner.

592

:

Very excited to hear if this is

a solution for the Joe situation.

593

:

I'm gonna find something really

pretty to put the papers in.

594

:

I'm gonna try to make that process

as enjoyable as possible and try

595

:

to find something to pair it with

that is very much happy for me.

596

:

because the processing is

boring, but it very much

597

:

has to be done.

598

:

And piling it up doesn't make it easier.

599

:

I

600

:

Lacey: We're getting rid of everything!

601

:

Sara: love rage cleans!

602

:

I love it!

603

:

So much gets done in such a small amount

604

:

Lacey: It does.

605

:

Do the people around you love rage cleans?

606

:

Sara: They've learned to be out of

earshot when they happen, because

607

:

otherwise, They just get tasks and chores.

608

:

Mine aren't as much rage fueled as

they are just like adrenaline fueled.

609

:

this is all happening in the next 15

minutes, but I'm not really mad, but

610

:

you will get a task if I see you.

611

:

Lacey: yeah, I understand that.

612

:

And then I don't know if you get

this, but every once in a while I'll

613

:

get, Do I have to do it right now?

614

:

Yes!

615

:

you do.

616

:

Ooh,

617

:

Sara: when did you think I

meant for that to get done?

618

:

why are you still sitting there?

619

:

Nobody ever asked me,

did you mean right now?

620

:

I meant five minutes ago.

621

:

Yes.

622

:

what Lacey, what are you

thankful for this week?

623

:

Lacey: a lot.

624

:

Listeners, I don't know if you

follow me on social media, you

625

:

know, I am unexpectedly pregnant

in the greatest way possible.

626

:

I'm very excited about it.

627

:

Joe's very excited.

628

:

We're all, excited and blessed

about it, but it's a lot.

629

:

And one of the reasons why I was

preventing pregnancies because I was

630

:

scared of what pregnancy would look

like for me as my chronically ill self.

631

:

And I don't want to mean

scared as like worried about my

632

:

health or anything like that.

633

:

I'm not like, it's going

to be whatever it is.

634

:

It's more of my capacity to do.

635

:

That's what made me nervous.

636

:

And this week I am so grateful

for the people around me to let

637

:

me be whatever I needed to be.

638

:

So I have been in one of the largest

rest periods of my life the past two

639

:

weeks because, if you know anything

about being in your first trimester

640

:

of pregnancy, you're exhausted.

641

:

And when you have that on top of ME

CFS and changing up medications because

642

:

you're pregnant and all of these different

things, I've been in a place of real rest.

643

:

Not only have I not fought it, which is

huge for me, but the people around me,

644

:

including Sara, and Joe, and everybody

around me, has let me lean into it.

645

:

And that has been a really profound

thing for me in a lot of ways Something

646

:

I've never really let myself do before.

647

:

And to know that I can and I should, and

that everyone supports me in that is just,

648

:

I know it sounds so like nebulous of a

thing, but it is so visceral to me right

649

:

now in the moment of how it feels and

that it feels good and it feels right.

650

:

It makes me even more optimistic about,

all of the things that are to come for me.

651

:

that's what I'm grateful for.

652

:

Sara: I am very happy for you

because I know what a big step

653

:

that is.

654

:

for You to accept and then to

actually follow through with the rest.

655

:

So I'm happy for you.

656

:

so mine, very different.

657

:

I don't know if you can see

I'm wearing new glasses.

658

:

Lacey: are!

659

:

Sara: I also have

prescription sunglasses now.

660

:

And boy, do I feel like a superhero

when I put them on and I can see

661

:

so darn clearly, I feel like I

have superpowers and I love it.

662

:

I am at this age now where I

need prescription sunglasses.

663

:

And I'm trying more to lean into

wow, I can see so clearly now.

664

:

This is amazing.

665

:

And same with these glasses, I have

a new computer set up, so I had to

666

:

get them adjusted for the distance.

667

:

And same thing, I'm like, wow,

everything is so sharp and so clear.

668

:

Lacey: Isn't it amazing how

you just, realize, oh, life

669

:

didn't have to be harder.

670

:

And look at it being easier.

671

:

This is amazing.

672

:

Sara: I am thankful for, I have an

amazing eye doctor who is, Great.

673

:

And she's patient cause I'm a bit

of a unicorn with my eye needs

674

:

and she's funny and she's great.

675

:

So I'm thankful for her.

676

:

I'm just, I'm thankful for glasses.

677

:

I think back to the day when like

they didn't have eyeglasses for people

678

:

or if they did, it was like, Okay.

679

:

Here's something, but it's not

specific to the person, And I just

680

:

think about all the headaches and all

the eye strain Oh, I'm so thankful.

681

:

I live in a day and age where

I get exactly what I need.

682

:

Lacey: I think that's really beautiful.

683

:

Because it's your view of the world.

684

:

It's how you take in the world.

685

:

Absolutely.

686

:

Sara: So I'm thankful for eyeglasses.

687

:

Lacey: Me too.

688

:

I'm thankful for you.

689

:

Sara: thank you, Lacey.

690

:

It was good to

691

:

Lacey: Thank you

692

:

Sarah.

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