This week, we discuss some of the latest scams to look out for this U.S. tax season.

The Vault host James Sherwood joins us with his take on Soul Masters.

William Sikkens, Bill Snodgrass, Gretchen Winkler

Welcome to

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User Friendly 2.0 with host Bill Sikkens,

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technology architect.

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And this is User Friendly 2.0.

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This is your host Bill Sikkens.

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With me Bill and Gretchen.

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Welcome to this week's show.

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Hello there.

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So anything new and exciting

you guys have done in the last week?

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Because I boy, do I have a story.

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Yeah. Does it involve a cat?

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It involves a cat.

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So anybody that knows me

probably knows that I've been involved

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in rescuing animals, cats, dogs,

you know, and so on.

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For a long time.

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And we've had a stray

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that's turned up around here, and we,

we're able to get them inside.

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We've had some freezing nights,

but he has been a challenge.

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And while we were in the process

of trying to rehome them,

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we had them in a room, and all of a sudden

they disappeared.

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No way out of the room.

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And then we noticed the register on

the heater vent was open

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and he crawled into the ductwork. So,

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if you are

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rescuing a cat,

they can get into just about anywhere.

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We still haven't found them,

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although we, had a professional come out

to make sure he wasn't stuck somewhere,

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but, he'll turn up,

but yeah, so that's been, a smoke.

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I don't know

if there's too much technology there.

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Perhaps if I use some,

I wouldn't have had this problem, but I

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yeah, I don't know,

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but the cat's a cat, cats a cat

and you know,

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and just from a personal thing,

I think they all deserve a chance.

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And if you can even just support

your animal shelter or

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anything like that,

every little bit helps. So.

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All right, after that little plug

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for the animal shelters,

what do we have in the news this week?

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Okay.

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Ocean boy power generator is being tested

successfully.

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Yeah. So this is comes from Instagram.

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This is, something called a

single core power C4 device,

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rated at 300kW under normal design

specifications.

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And what this thing basically does

exist on the water, ocean,

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although it will work anywhere

where there's waves and it will use

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that and convert that into energy.

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So interesting device.

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And the actual technology behind this

I think is out there.

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I've heard of stuff like this,

but the big thing that they're starting

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to get on this

and a lot of other renewable things,

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is that they're becoming more dependable

and can produce a lot more power.

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It's the same idea that the solar panel

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was something like 1/100 or even less

of what a solar panel produced today.

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And like with technology,

these things grow.

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And this is just another way

to look at it.

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And you could use these in pairs.

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They don't pollute and they are in pairs.

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You can use them in tandem

with like a lot of them.

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And they produce energy

just from the wave power.

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So you gotta look at them.

They're these giant lines.

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They put them somewhere that they're

not going to block up your view.

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And there's a lot of places in the ocean

that you don't see from the shore

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that have waves. So I've been told,

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yeah, thanks.

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TikTok is tracking you

even if you don't use their app.

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Here's how to stop it.

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So this is the BBC reporting on this.

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And it's interesting

because I am not a TikTok user

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and I have no real opinion on it.

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I just have never used it.

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And, you know,

don't really have a desire to, but

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I looked through this and it's interesting

because it's harvesting data on people

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that don't have TikTok accounts,

and that's where this gets a little weird.

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So, yeah,

you know, as a matter of protocol,

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if you use an app from any social media,

not just social media,

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but if you use an app

from a lot of places,

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it will harvest data on you,

because data and analytics

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and all that kind of stuff

is worth a lot of money.

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In a lot of cases,

they make more money off of that.

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So you're the product, which is why the

what you're using is usually free.

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It's not really free,

but you just pay for it another way.

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Right.

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So okay, if I, you know, log on

to Facebook or something and the terms

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and conditions talk about this and okay,

you know, I know about it.

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But in this particular case

they're getting data from other places

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using something called pixel tracking,

which I'll explain in just a second.

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And whether or not you have a TikTok

account

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doesn't seem to really matter.

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So pixel tracking is, an idea

that's nothing new.

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It's been around for a long time

where you go to a website

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and it'll be one pixel.

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Usually you don't see it.

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That has the ability to track.

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There's going to be through third party

cookies or other technologies,

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and it's a big part of the reason

why sometimes you'll go search

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for something in the next ten websites.

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You go to have an ad for it.

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This is part of what does that

well, TikTok's putting this out there

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and it's getting information on people

that are going to completely

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different websites.

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It's able to track their behavior

and sends it back to them

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without you even knowing about it,

you know?

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And I don't know the terms

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and conditions for the foreign website

if it talks about that or not.

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But you know, a company called

disconnect was looking into this.

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Patrick Jackson was analyzing it

and he just said it says it's

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extremely invasive,

this expanded data sharing, when you do

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an analysis of the actual pixel code,

you'll see things that look really bad.

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Now, privacy has changed a lot,

with the internet and everything else.

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It's not certainly like it once was,

but this, in my opinion, is going

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a little bit too far and, you know,

if one company can do it, others can.

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And at the end of the day, you know, it's,

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it's one of those things we're going to

deep dive into this in a couple of weeks.

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And also at that time, talk

about what you can do to minimize,

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these kind of situations.

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And we've gotten a lot of,

listener feedback on some of these topics

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that we've had before.

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So we're going

to do a question, questions.

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I think actually,

there is, definite desire to deep dive

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into some more things

that don't require becoming a hermit

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living off the grid to keep your data

a little more secure.

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So at the end of the day, it's just like

I say something to be aware of right now.

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And, you know, at the end of the day,

I don't know.

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I'm still not on TikTok with

maybe I am. I just don't know what.

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I'm not on TikTok either.

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All right.

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Microsoft's Valentine's gift to admins

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is six exploited zero day fixes.

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So, that's a wonderful thing.

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And if you're an admin,

you'll know what this is.

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If not, you probably won't know.

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Won't matter that much.

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But, real quick thing on this is,

at the end of the day, what is zero day

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is is something that comes out

that is already an exploit.

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That's in your software

so that your operating system, whatever

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the case may be, and they solve it, but

they have to do it after the fact build.

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Is there a better definition of that?

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Not really.

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I mean, it's something that came out

the day the, the, software

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came out

and usually hasn't been seen or fixed or.

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Yeah.

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And basically what it does.

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So there's and there's been some things

that have come up recently

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that there's been problems.

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I January was just a bad month

for Microsoft updates.

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So they're getting on it.

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And the next round of updates

that are coming out, on Patch

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Tuesday

will fix a lot of these different things.

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Now, if you are an admin,

you already probably know,

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some of the stuff that's come out of here,

but some of the better ones

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are a problem with, word security,

where you can bypass security.

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You can elevate to,

administrative privileges on,

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desktop on windows using these exploits,

gain remote control access and on.

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And those are things

that you probably really

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don't want to have happen,

especially if you don't know about it.

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So but it's kind of difficult

if the updates don't fix it

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and the bad guys already know about it.

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So yeah, I, you know, this headlines

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a little tongue in cheek,

but it is definitely a,

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a good thing to see this coming out

being reported by the Register.

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And I'm glad to see this happening.

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And I'll let you know next

week if they work or not.

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We feel it in

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our bones and a machine never love you.

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So you know, this is an interesting topic.

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BBC's reporting on this and there's

some other, places on the internet

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where they have some comparison on this,

but I'll use the BBC article.

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It is a debate

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whether or not AI has gotten to the point

of singularity or being sentient.

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We have discussed what that is

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here before, but basically at that point

it's self-aware.

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You know, there's a lot more to it,

but that's where it's coming from.

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So what's happening is the people

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are falling in love with their chat bots.

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And, you know, the way that AI is designed

is it can respond and,

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you know, it feels like it has emotion

and all the rest of it,

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certain people will say,

well, it's mimicking emotion.

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Another argue

well, it actually, you know, has it.

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So, you know, it's just

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2024 study.

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This goes back a little bit

millions of users using called replica,

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if not 40% of them

claim to have a romantic relationship

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with the chat bot, so.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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So yeah.

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Yeah, this this brings up,

you know, like I said earlier,

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like Raj and a Big Bang Theory

where he fell in love with Siri.

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You know, because she was emotionally

meeting his needs, you know, on a,

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you know, intellectual level. And,

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you know, and the thing of it is, is

you look at stuff like this,

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I cannot return emotion. Probably not.

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But there are a lot of positive cases

where chat bots are, you know,

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especially with

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you have people that are isolated

like say, seniors or something like that.

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I actually have someone to talk to

in a sense.

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So, you know, you're seeing applications

of this type of technology in that way.

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But I don't see us performing,

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you know, human

AI of weddings anytime soon.

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Let's hope not.

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Yeah.

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You know, and it's I kind of look at this

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thinking back to, a friend in college

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had this boyfriend who said, my dog

doesn't have any feelings.

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And it's like there was a lot of attitude

many, many years ago

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that your pets were just things to use.

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And I think people have really changed

their attitudes

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about about the animals in their lives.

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So, I'm sorry, I think the dog did have

feelings, you know?

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Yeah.

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If anybody doesn't think my cats

have feelings, they can email me and argue

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with me about that.

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And they're not going to win

that argument, you know?

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But you're talking about a pet,

which is a living creature, you know?

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So yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

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All right.

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I guess we're

going to go on to another strange topic.

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This robot with a working

human face is incredibly unsettling.

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Yeah, I mean, it's uncanny Valley. Yeah.

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You know, you're going in that direction.

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And I think at the end of the day,

it's subjective futurism reporting.

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Victor Tankman wrote the article.

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And what we're doing here

is a number of different companies,

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not just, 21 humanoid robots,

which is what this is talking about.

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Robot called the Walker two,

but are trying to build

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biped, humanoid looking robots.

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You know, we're seeing that kind of thing

all over the place with this company.

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Droid OP has taken this to the next level

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and actually done it in a way that it does

look real.

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To the extent

that if you touch the robot, it

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the skin has a good warmth, just like

a human would and all the rest of it. So,

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So I don't know.

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I don't know what my opinion is on it.

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I don't know if it's creepy or not,

but certainly I could see where

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that could be an assumption

that people would make.

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And,

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one of the things that's been talked

about this with, robotics

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and we're going to be seeing

a lot of this, you know, this is just

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the beginning of it

is maybe don't make them look human,

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or be a little less of the creepy factor

in that kind of thing.

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Yeah.

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It's like, I think I feel

completely comfortable with C-3po.

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Yeah, but R2d2.

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Yes, I like R2-d2, too.

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Now, you know, it's interesting,

the Star Wars thing, it's

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you know, I've said this before,

ten years ago, what sci fi is now.

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You can, you know, buy it at the store

in some cases.

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But you look at something like that,

C-3po, R2-d2 was Star Wars characters.

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Even the biped

robot doesn't really look human.

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No, he doesn't, you know, and

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neither, there's other robotic characters

in in stories, The Orville.

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He doesn't look,

I mean, he has got a biped body,

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and, and he's supposed to be.

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I think a sentient

AI is what I am assuming.

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And the woman does fall in love with him.

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Interesting, Yeah.

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How many claims for you has a 92% human

like walking accuracy,

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and it is able to actually walk? 92%?

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Yeah. You.

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I would have guessed. Stop.

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And, hey, that's about 92% more than

most of the others that I've seen. So

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I don't know what.

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What do you guys think?

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That, biped human looking

robots are okay?

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I mean, or do you think that they should

maybe keep them not looking so human?

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I think it's that bridge still the uncanny

valley.

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Eventually, it won't matter.

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We're still in that stage where it does.

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And it's also the novelty of it that

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we're not used to it.

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Yeah. Right. Right.

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Yeah.

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It's kind of like people

have to get used to something

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that's different,

give them a little time and.

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And it wouldn't be a robot, would it?

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Or what, what what constitutes

robot versus an android?

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Yeah. Android is,

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robot is it runs on software and,

you know, that kind of thing.

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But at this point it is a robot.

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But, okay.

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You know, so, yeah,

I think I'd probably find a robot

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more pleasing to be mechanical looking

and an android

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to be more, natural or human like maybe.

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I mean, that's where I would like. Sure.

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When we talked about the robot

at Olympics, we were kind of looking

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at some of this stuff, too,

and a listener comment that came in

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which I thought was kind of amusing,

as they should,

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build them to look like Roswell. Great.

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So that way when the grays come,

they'll already be used to them.

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Right? So I.

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I'm, Well, something upsetting.

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The Department of Homeland Security

is demanding that Google

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turn over information

about random critics.

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Yeah, so a lot of things are being tested

in the law right now.

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And this is, as you say,

something concerning,

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because if you go on Google and criticize

the government, which has Americans

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or in most other countries as well,

we have the absolute right to do Google.

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Yeah, we're talking about earlier TikTok

saving data.

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Well, Google does the exact same thing.

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So now they have a database.

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And you know, U.S government,

as the headline says, it's found a

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a different way to keep tabs on citizens

who criticize

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the government just to man

their personal data from Google.

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And I can see where people would have

a very negative reaction

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to something like this.

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And I think it's also unfair

to Google, too, because they're kind of

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being pushed in the middle of something

that they did not courts, you know?

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So so does this mean

that they can just like,

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steal your, email?

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I don't know if it was stealing

your email.

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What they would do is search

what you've searched on and email

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and uploaded to Google Drive,

I would think.

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And so on. And if you ask, yeah,

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so if you have

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things that are Na in your Google account,

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then it's no longer

private or secret or non disclosed.

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Yeah.

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So in remote,

you know, again, we're not lawyers here

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but nondisclosure agreements

if you have a warrant or something.

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My understanding is it doesn't matter

anyway.

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The warrant supersedes the NDA.

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And, I might not be 100% correct on that,

321

but as a general process,

we're seeing this kind of thing happen.

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And I know that on this topic,

they already do monitor things because,

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YouTube, a gentleman that does a YouTube

channel that I kind of like

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almost lost his channel.

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He was doing research as a reporter

and found,

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was looking into some story

and got a, chat capture.

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Well, it was in Spanish.

He speaks English.

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So he uploaded to his Google drive

to review it later.

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An hour later,

all his Google stuff stopped working.

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YouTube, Gmail, the whole bit.

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And they're saying, well,

you violated our terms

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because there was apparently

some very racist stuff in this document.

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Now, of course, he didn't know that

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and was not contributing

to, you know, creating that junk.

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You can think of another word,

but I won't say it on the air.

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But the thing of videos is,

at the end of the day, he had to fight

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and fight hard to not lose his livelihood,

you know?

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So these things are already

being monitored.

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Now they want to take it a step further,

where the government can look at that

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as well. And it's interesting.

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They use something called

administrative warrants,

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which is a warrant

that can be assigned by the investigator.

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It's not signed by a judge, you know.

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So obviously if the investigator

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can sign their own warrants, there's

no check and balance on that either.

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So yeah it's yeah.

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So it's I don't like him.

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He stole my friend or whatever.

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I'm going to investigate them.

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It's like the

the airplane thing all over again.

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You know the no fly list.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. Exactly. You know, it's just. Yeah.

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Anyway.

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But yeah, at the end of the day,

these type of things are

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something

that the law is still catching up with.

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And it's going to be interesting to see,

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you know, what side of this winds

of the freedom of the people or

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the government being able to,

you know, have another bit of overreach.

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So this must be very stressful

for the people in technology

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who have to deal with this.

362

This isn't their normal wheelhouse. No.

363

And you know, and they serve process

on Google or whatever company,

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you know, so you have someone there.

365

Now, the bigger companies like this,

of course, have a good legal department.

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They can fight these things and years

and a lot of cases.

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But again, at the end of the day,

what do you do?

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You know.

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So like I say, it's going to be

interesting to see how this plays out.

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Oh, and another cheery article.

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Wells Fargo Bank denies

Santa Clara County, California

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homeowners $28,000 refund after check

altered and cashed by mail.

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Thieves ABC seven Eyewitness News

Los Angeles was reporting on this.

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Stephanie Sierra wrote the article,

and what this is talking about

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is a proffer to me to give

my quarterly rant on don't use checks.

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So yes,

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there has been more and more problems

with this

378

as life goes on, and this is growing

quite a bit.

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So basically what happened

is, two Northern California homeowners,

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sent their check

for their property taxes in,

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which I guess in San Jose is $28,000.

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And I didn't think anything of it.

383

The check cleared

the bank and life went on.

384

Well, they got a delinquency

notice on down the road,

385

and then went back to look at it

and see what actually had happened.

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And the check was there, but it, had

been changed, you know, alter in the mail.

387

The name was different,

that kind of a thing.

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And, you know,

getting $28,000 is a lot of money.

389

I don't know about you, but I don't have

that sitting in my drawer here.

390

You know, that kind of a thing?

391

Well, Wells Fargo,

which was a bank involved in this,

392

denied the refund, saying that

they didn't do it in a timely fashion.

393

Claimed the thing.

394

And there are limits on

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credit card

fraud, bank fraud, check fraud like this.

396

They're all different.

397

And, this varies from place to place

and institution institution.

398

But it is just something that you do need

to stay on top of your financials.

399

And if something weird happens,

know about it right away.

400

And yes, we're all busy,

but this is your money.

401

It's important.

402

And it is definitely something that

that you don't want to have.

403

So this way

and that being said, just remember,

404

if you send a check

or give a check to somebody,

405

you're giving your name, address,

probably your phone number,

406

your checking account number,

your routing number, your signature,

407

all of this personal information

on this little document.

408

It was fine for the, you know,

409

20th century, but the 21st century,

this is totally obsolete.

410

And if you must use a check

411

if your bank offers it,

most of them do use your online bill pay

412

because they'll send the check, but

it won't have your account number on it.

413

Their system for that.

414

So speaking of bad guys trying to,

415

take your money from you,

it is tax time here in the United States.

416

So in the United States we file our taxes.

417

Generally, they're due on April 15th

or thereabouts, depending on the year.

418

And with that comes the scammers.

419

So the number one this year and again

this is not necessarily new stuff.

420

It's just what's going on.

421

Number one this year is the IRS impression

phone calls.

422

All are claims they're from the IRS.

423

They probably spoofed the caller ID.

424

So it might show the right, phone number.

425

So something like you owe back taxes.

426

There's a warrant or your Social Security

number is suspended, which is interesting

427

and demands payment via

gift cards, wire transfer or crypto.

428

There's red flag number one.

429

Oh, yeah.

430

You know. Yeah.

431

The IRS will never call you out

of the blue demanding immediate payments.

432

So that's number one.

433

If you get a call like this,

it is a fraud.

434

If you have a problem, they send letters.

435

There are official ways

that they will deal with you.

436

If this happens, just hang up.

437

Do not engage.

438

Never pay anything with gift cards

or crypto,

439

you know, and report it to irs@irs.gov.

440

So the next one that goes along with

this is text message

441

scams or smishing.

442

And you'll get a text message

something like you qualify

443

for a $1,400 refund

or your tax return is under review.

444

And it includes a link where you can go

and enter your Social Security number,

445

bank details, or whatever else.

446

It thereafter looks very official.

447

And, this one

the IRS is taking seriously.

448

You email it to phishing with a P

at IRS knockoff.

449

So if you get one of those messages

forwarded to that address

450

itching at irs.gov.

451

And that's a way to report it.

452

It's very, very easy to do.

453

And along with this are emails

that are fake tax refund notices.

454

Any of these things

the idea is to get you off your guard

455

a little bit and, hey, you have to do

this.

456

It's got to happen right now.

457

If you don't, you'll go to jail

or you'll lose your refund or something

458

that creates the idea of, urgency.

459

And then you get to know, well,

I don't want that to happen or,

460

you know, whatever the case may be.

461

So you got to go and,

462

you got to go and pay this bill

or give us your account information

463

so we can send you your refund or whatever

the case will be.

464

Again, IRS does not do that.

465

First of all, they're not going to call

you just just period.

466

They're not going to email you

out of the blue either.

467

You get your refund when you file

468

your tax return

by filling out a thing for direct deposit,

469

and it takes it from there,

and that is the real way to do it.

470

So send us your questions

in your comments.

471

There's a lot of other stuff

coming up too,

472

but this is a big topic

and these things are getting worse.

473

This is user friendly.

2.0. We'll be back after the break.

474

We'll see him. He's from the future.

475

He's got a really big computer

476

and he uses it every day.

477

And usually uses it in every way.

478

I see you sure you know, I'm not that

479

sure because he's eager to welcome back.

480

This is user friendly 2.0.

481

Send us your questions and your comments

to User Friendly Dot show.

482

We love to hear from you in user friendly

dot show is the one stop

483

right in this segment

we're going to be doing two things.

484

Gretchen. We're going to be talking to you

in a minute about a Lego project.

485

And after that, James Sherwood with

the vault

486

is going to be talking about your masters.

487

So before we get into that, Gretchen,

what's all I see here is Lego project.

488

Tell us about what is it?

489

Okay. All right.

490

As some of you may recall, Jeremy,

who was one of our hosts,

491

was very much into Legos,

and he collected, I mean, hard core.

492

And one of the projects that, he bought

493

was the NASA Apollo Saturn five.

494

Project.

495

So I had this box

and I was thinking, you know,

496

when he was still alive,

we planned to build this together.

497

And as time has gone

on, I've unpacked things

498

and it's like,

oh, I really want to do that.

499

And he'd be really sad if I didn't do it.

500

So I got up

the courage, opened up the fancy box and,

501

you know, pulled out the instructions,

the instruction book.

502

Look at this, guys, can you see this?

503

It is. It is like. It's like the.

504

But our listeners can't

unless they've changed radio. So.

505

But that's about it. That's fantastic.

506

Yeah.

507

It's like, a quarter

or a third inch thick.

508

Yeah. And it is, it got a hard

509

binding.

510

It's all right. That's nice.

511

I guess it's.

512

And it's beautiful, slick paper.

513

And in the, in the front of it,

there's all this, historical stuff.

514

There's a schematic

of the different parts of the real Saturn

515

five rocket

and all of this beautiful history.

516

There's, Like a timeline

for the journey to the moon.

517

The moon.

518

And the nice thing about this

is it's also written in several languages.

519

So this was really meant to be,

something that,

520

if you're into space

or wanting to be an astronaut,

521

this is the thing to get for your kid

or your adult who loves this stuff now.

522

So I go on, I was just going to say

523

Legos have been a thing

that I've had my whole life.

524

I love them,

I love them when I was a kid, I still do.

525

And, you know,

we talked about smart Legos a while back,

526

so I can see where you would really be

enjoying doing this.

527

Oh, yeah.

528

When I was a kid,

I desperately wanted them.

529

My parents would not get them for me,

for some reason.

530

And so I don't know what happened there.

531

I don't know whether it was a girl factor

or because they were expensive. So.

532

But I never got them.

533

And,

so I unpacked this box and there are,

534

I think, 12 bags, Legos,

535

puts their projects into sections.

536

So it's not this big mass of hearts,

you know, all floating around.

537

They want you to, be able to work on it

and organize fashion.

538

And I know that sometimes these things

are a little hard for me to do.

539

So I decided I was only going to do

one bag at a time,

540

you know, just carefully,

methodically do that.

541

And I got to the fourth bag

542

and I started having problems.

543

The pieces

I can't get the panels to stay on.

544

So if there's somebody out there

who's like a hard core

545

Lego person

and you have the Saturn five, I.

546

I looked back at the instructions to go

547

and check out the area where

I'm having trouble, and I'm wondering

548

if the picture is maybe not clear enough

549

for me to know how to put the pieces on.

550

There's some angles that are curious,

551

and so I moved things around,

but it's still the pieces.

552

The panels are still not staying in place.

553

Say they want to pop out.

554

So I'm wondering out here.

555

Yeah,

there are others out there who have this.

556

And you know, many people love Legos.

557

One thing you might consider doing

is just going to Google or something

558

and googling

Saturn five and see if there's a Reddit,

559

you know, or something like that,

or if there probably is.

560

I would imagine. Yeah.

561

And if there's a problem, you're not

the first one that's going to have had it.

562

So yeah. No that's cool.

563

Oh yeah.

564

I have always their hands on

they're tactile

565

and they've never done,

you know, the cash grab where.

566

Well now this isn't compatible

with that either.

567

So even when the duplex box came out,

they could be used together.

568

Sort of.

569

So I yeah, it's a it's a thing

that I've always thought was a lot of fun.

570

And I love to see how it's going.

571

But, you know, the other thing of it is

these Lego sets can be worth a fortune.

572

Yeah, I didn't even look to see

how much this one was worth.

573

Now I don't you don't want to do that.

574

Yeah.

575

Yeah. No, but you can't.

576

You have something like that where you're

afraid to touch it because of the value.

577

But I'm seeing some of these sets

go for over $1,000 apiece.

578

I mean, it's like a lot of money.

579

Yeah. So, Yeah. No. Yeah, I

580

do, I retirement in Legos.

581

Yeah.

582

Maybe that's what he was thinking

I don't know.

583

Yeah I'll tell you it's fun.

584

That put something together.

It's frustrating.

585

And I just had a recent arcade cabinet.

586

I tried to build the whole story.

587

We don't have time therefore.

588

But it didn't go together so well.

589

So you know, and it wasn't,

590

your situation probably is fixable.

591

This one was not very frustrating.

592

So I might start all over again,

might pull the pieces apart

593

and try and figure out

what did I do wrong.

594

And, you know,

and that's the way to do it.

595

I mean, that's how you do it.

596

That's how you learn. So. Yeah.

597

Yeah.

598

So too cool. All right.

599

Well next on the radar here.

600

Let's go ahead and talk.

601

So my asked ers James

Sherwood with the vault is joining us.

602

Here we go.

603

Welcome to the vault.

This is James Sherwood.

604

And today we're going to be talking

with some friends of mine Ray and Andy.

605

And we're talking about a new trading

card game that just came out

606

in March of 2025 called Soul Masterpiece.

607

It's a trading card game

using multiple resources.

608

It's a fantasy based.

609

It seems to be an interesting game.

610

We spent some time today

doing live play and let's talk about it.

611

So when you

612

guys opened up the box,

what was your first impression?

613

My first impression was, wow,

this is a really cool build quality

614

or really quality in the pieces

and the cards.

615

That was my first impression. Immediate.

616

And then I look at the artworks

like, oh, great enemy, like enemy.

617

Yeah,

I was really impressed with the artwork.

618

I love the poker chips.

619

I love the quality of them,

using them for life counters.

620

I know there's

going to be a chain for that,

621

but it looks like a lot of love

was put into it.

622

And then by no means

does it look like it's made sense.

623

So guys, tell me a little bit

624

about your initial setup for the game.

625

What did it look like?

626

So I mean setting it up

627

depends on what roles

you're starting to look at.

628

Like out of the box,

out of the box, out of the box.

629

Setting the game up took some.

630

It took a few readings.

631

It comes with three decks.

632

Our three separate pilots and instruction

manual, the quick start guide

633

that comes with tells you where they go

or what they're used for.

634

In very brief,

and it tells you how to start.

635

You're going to have an opening hand

636

and, you know,

the first few steps on how to get that.

637

I think

638

in terms of getting it started

and having your playfield set up,

639

I really yeah, you know, back when you,

640

I think they came with a little paper

format that you unfolded and

641

it would

642

help to have that to help organize

where things go.

643

And it seems like it really wanted that.

644

So I had an idea, but then the playback

came out, oh, this goes

645

here, that goes there

and make things a lot easier.

646

Okay. $0.02 for me.

647

I mean, opening in the box was nice.

648

A lot of quality put into the artwork.

649

The cards, the, poker

chips, the pamphlets.

650

In terms of setting up in preparation,

651

what I do is I scan the QR code,

which is inside of one of the pamphlets,

652

and I looked at all the videos

where to try to look at all of them and,

653

try to get a better understanding

of the rules that way.

654

It was more informative.

655

I feel like the pamphlet gives

somewhat of, I mean, as a rudimentary

656

kind of guide, but there's a lot more

there's a lot more complexity

657

that I needed info on.

658

And so a lot of the setup I was doing was,

659

okay, like,

this is how these are the rules.

660

Okay. But

how does that actually look in the game?

661

And that's the part where I was still,

pretty lost.

662

Yeah.

663

I found myself jumping a lot in the rules.

664

Even even the actual main rules book.

665

I was jumping back and forth,

hoping in one section

666

they explained some process to them

to a better extent than what it was.

667

So oftentimes I find, oh,

this is referenced here.

668

Let me see if they talk about it

later in more detail.

669

Whereas I wish that

that would have been these by phase.

670

Explain I,

671

you know, you've played a lot of games,

you've all played

672

a lot of board games here and trading card

games, definitely.

673

I've played a lot of those.

674

Usually when you're explaining a game

and teaching someone to play a game

675

and walking through those first steps,

you're getting piece by piece

676

and you're beginning step by step

how to go through every single thing.

677

And it's not a fully detailed,

every man wants to edge case,

678

but you want the relative stuff to do

most of the actions you can do in one

679

in your first turn.

680

And I felt like

I was jumping around to get that.

681

Yeah, I think one of the things

that comes up to mind for me

682

when I was trying to learn this

or my setup was,

683

it seems intuitive

or it seems like it should feel

684

wants to be intuitive, wants to be,

and that's

685

the reality of playing it was

it wasn't as intuitive as I was thinking.

686

Yeah.

687

Like in this room

we were playing earlier.

688

The armor thing. Yes. We are.

689

So armor, as anyone could probably guess,

is using damage.

690

But, it didn't

691

necessarily say that until I,

I don't know, looked

692

at three different places

to find, overexaggerating.

693

But, I mean, not not really.

694

Not by much. Yeah.

695

I mean, this this even happened

when we were trying to figure out, Yeah.

696

Energy resurfaces.

697

Right? Right.

698

How many energy cards

we could have on the energy field

699

we still haven't figured out necessarily

before?

700

Yeah.

701

The reserve is the resource,

not reserve deck.

702

Yeah, the resource deck,

it says discard, your resource.

703

And we just presume, based on the fact

that there's so many things that generate

704

and spend that resource,

that there's no way that it's not just

705

discarding to its own that we just present

and and that we sort of figured that out

706

with definitive written rules,

if I remember correctly.

707

Yeah.

708

I think there's some like

I think there's a thing to where it's like

709

it's like implied intuitiveness.

710

Yeah. Right.

711

So for us it's intuitive because

it would be like that doesn't make sense.

712

Right. Because if you were only six,

you would run out.

713

So I wouldn't put in the discard.

714

However, like I feel like that

should be explained in the rulebook too.

715

Yeah.

716

Just so real quick question

just to jump in here a little bit.

717

You have

718

talked

about having to jump around in the rules.

719

So from what I would see

from what I was looking at online,

720

from watching play,

it looks like there is the rules,

721

the instructions that come with the game,

that are not the most helpful

722

with the QR code to some online rules.

723

Those rules are a little more in-depth,

but still not very intuitive

724

and not very well laid out.

725

Yeah.

726

How did you find the, live play videos?

727

Did you find those helpful

or the tutorials?

728

To an extent I did.

729

I'm more of

I tend to like visual things a lot more.

730

And so I think what I was thinking about

when I was watching

731

some of these videos, or at least,

the official ones, was

732

I felt like I could tell

the person's passion in making this.

733

And I was there was one instance where he

was talking about, the attacking phase.

734

He was actually showing, what that would

look like, and that was for him.

735

What I wish for is, hey, could you do that

for a whole, like, a whole game?

736

Maybe not a whole game, but.

737

Yeah, you know, he does it in snippets,

a couple terms a couple times, right?

738

He does it for like a turn or two,

and he explains,

739

like the phasing and all that stuff.

740

And it seems like, again, like, okay,

when you explain it that way,

741

it seems a lot more intuitive.

742

It seems like it makes more sense.

743

But then it's so

744

if I know that person is trying to fit

everything into a small amount of time,

745

and I get that

it was one of these things too, where

746

I think some of the ones that showcase

that they like played it for so long,

747

I that there's so familiar with it, it

wasn't like a new, new, new, new player.

748

That makes sense. Yeah.

749

So we've talked a lot

about the intuitiveness.

750

We've talked a lot about the game or

we've talked some about it, I should say.

751

What is your experience levels

with trading card games,

752

and how does this kind of match up

against your experience?

753

Let me first on that one.

754

Yeah, pretty pretty significant.

755

I'm not going to say I've been

to Pro tours or anything like that.

756

But you know, I played

757

Pokemon for quite a for when I was a kid.

758

And, you know, when I came out and studio

when that came out

759

and then I was, I dipped into magic

when I was in my teenage years

760

and dipped out because it was just

financially not feasible as a teenager.

761

And back when I was in my post,

I post-graduate education,

762

I got back into it and I've been playing

mostly in the commander format

763

since 2015, at least the past ten years.

764

I'd say

I have a decent handle on the rules

765

of playing card game, I would say.

766

So. You have a pretty extensive knowledge

of various different games.

767

That's kind of your launch point for this,

as like you had.

768

How does this compare to other games?

769

Yeah, I wouldn't call myself a judge

or something.

770

Crazy massive.

771

Not knowledge base,

but I, I know enough to know

772

what stuff

makes sense of, you know, explains things

773

like the stack or priorities like, oh,

I see where you got that from.

774

Yeah.

775

And I would say like that

minus I would know for

776

sure.

777

You know, I started playing Pokemon,

you know, when I was, you know,

778

kid played the Pokemon trading card game,

like a computer version of it.

779

You when that came out,

780

I also played versus system,

which was a marvel and DC based two.

781

So I was out for a little bit.

782

They reformatted it

into the new versus system.

783

So, and I played that like all through

high school and stuff for that in college.

784

And then again got into as a postgraduate

kind of thing too.

785

And I think the thing

I would say about like trading and then

786

I also got into Laura Connor.

787

And so,

788

you know, one of the things that I was,

trying to comparison with this too,

789

was like aspects of work on

and like work on is

790

I feel like very intuitive.

791

I picked up very quickly.

792

You can pick it up.

793

It's good. And,

794

there's not a lot of kind of,

795

I guess I want to say like, look,

796

lawyer playing,

maybe that's not the right rules.

797

Lawyer.

798

Yeah.

799

I mean, yeah,

having to reference the rules quite often.

800

Yeah. And it's not.

801

It's not saying that this is like

a game. It's based off of that.

802

But it was like,

okay, let's go back to the book.

803

Okay.

804

Let's go back to, guidance for like,

I was doing that a lot.

805

Yeah.

806

I think the key thing being like,

I was saying the organization

807

and the set up of the rules

in the rulebook itself.

808

Yeah.

809

Having having everything.

810

And, you know, I know where to go

to get this information.

811

I would like that

812

because I don't expect myself to learn

everything perfectly on the first.

813

Yeah.

814

But I want to know where I find it

when I think like it's comparing it

815

to other games, like the mechanic of only

attacking wrestling players like that.

816

That's similar much law common, right.

817

And I think the thing

that we were talking about was part of

818

why that works and work on it

is because you request, right,

819

which wrestler you know, the character

and therefore opens yourself up to attack.

820

And then we were trying to figure out what

what like what does that do for this.

821

Right. Yeah.

822

And I saw some things actually that

823

there's actually some interesting stuff

I think they do with that.

824

And I think they probably get it from

that very that, from that very concept

825

like the phasing mechanic.

826

Let's keep this kind of a 30,000ft view.

827

So looking at the game sounds like not

super intuitive right off the bat.

828

A lot of pieces

put together a lot of moving parts.

829

You need to have some experience to play

with.

830

Was it fun?

831

I had fun, yeah.

832

I think if I have

a broad definition of fun,

833

I mean, and I'll just be honest, right.

834

Like,

I think it has a potential to be fun.

835

And there were definitely glimmers of that

when we were playing, I was like,

836

hey, I'm getting this. This is cool.

837

And so it's like, okay, we can go

back and forth, it can be more fast paced.

838

It can be a lot more strategy

based on that.

839

Like I saw the potential trying to get

there was hard work.

840

And I think that's why I mean, like

841

I have a broad definition of fun,

which is like, okay, I mean, yeah,

842

you know, it can be fun

trying to learn how to play it

843

wasn't that fun.

844

And it was kind of like, yeah,

845

yeah, I, I enjoy learning new games.

846

Yeah.

847

So going back

and finding out how things work

848

and then using those rules to in new,

unique ways has always

849

been, has always been part

of the definition of fun for any game.

850

I mean, I that's in eight games.

851

But it did not make that journey.

852

It didn't help me much along

with that journey into that.

853

And that part wasn't fun.

854

In and of itself, like the game itself,

it certainly has potential.

855

I think it's got, to be as a continuing

game, like as the meta evolves,

856

or if you're playing more often

and collecting the cards,

857

not just from this individual experience,

I think it has potential to be fun.

858

You know,

so it seems like it's a fun game.

859

I think it's a pretty fun game.

860

Yeah.

861

So a little bit about the game.

862

I met with the creators of the game

at Rose city Comic-Con

863

in 2025, shortly after it came out.

864

They were nice enough to give us,

starter decks.

865

The starter decks run around $25 a piece.

866

35 for special editions.

867

They gave us a couple of placemats,

and those are about $30 apiece.

868

The play maps

really seem to be an aid to the game.

869

Play it.

870

They have zones marked out for where

the different decks go.

871

There's a lot of moving parts on

the board, and to help keep track of that,

872

one thing I noticed, I was watching them

play for the first time,

873

90 minutes and we've managed two turns.

874

So definitely, definitely not a

quick starter once we know the rules.

875

Of course

it started picking up a little bit.

876

One of the one of the interesting parts

is the format of the cards.

877

The artwork is absolutely gorgeous.

878

I think you guys would

agree with me on that. Yeah,

879

but the font is very

880

small on the cards

and the backgrounds are very busy.

881

It makes it a little bit hard

to quick reference cards.

882

There's also a justification issue.

883

It's center justified,

which means everything lines up

884

against the center line rather than to

the left like we're used to reading.

885

It kind of throws off

some of the sections.

886

And as Ray like to point out, there was

a lot of grammatical errors as well.

887

Yeah. And one of the things that

888

I was saying earlier, when you're,

when you're referencing a game,

889

like magic, you better bet that there's

890

gonna be people, being very particular

about the grammar on the cards,

891

and how that means something.

892

Because if you ever dive

into the rules of magic, you'll see.

893

You'll know what I mean.

894

Yeah.

895

We're looking at a 30,000ft view.

896

So I think the other thing

I was going to say about,

897

Yeah, like, I love the concept.

898

I definitely think

it has a lot of potential.

899

I think one thing that would be

really nice to kind of see is,

900

and maybe, like,

901

this is just my own thing that I

haven't found, but some backstory, right?

902

Like, I have, you know, some investment

in the characters and things

903

like that, would give it some more depth.

904

And, you know, probably make

the gameplay, I guess, more meaningful.

905

But again,

that's just my personal opinion.

906

I think they did mention something

907

on their website that there was

a background lore and all that.

908

I just didn't have it in the welcome to

the World of Soul Masters page on the box.

909

Yeah.

910

And there is lore on the website,

and it's it's

911

a game of three warring factions

trying to gain control of the land.

912

You get commanders

based on the different factions.

913

They have armies based on the different

factions, the booster packs.

914

They come out with it

915

are interesting.

916

I believe they're 12 cards

per booster pack.

917

In those 12 cards, you have a variety

from all of the different

918

armies.

919

There are mercenary cards

that can be used in any armor.

920

Some army, excuse me,

some things like that.

921

So we know that the artwork is good.

922

We know that the learning curve

is not the best.

923

We have talked a little bit about the fact

that the rules are fairly disjointed

924

and not necessarily written by somebody

looking at it with fresh eyes

925

on a zero by ten scale.

926

What kind of rating

would you give the game just today?

927

Out of the box?

928

What would you rate it out?

929

Yeah. We go, yeah.

930

Fun level

can of give a couple different numbers.

931

Fun level I'd say around a seven.

932

Would I play it again?

933

I'd say it's a 5050.

934

Or am I where I'm actually gonna buy it

or get more cards

935

or so like average for that.

936

Yeah.

937

So like I guess.

938

Yeah.

939

Like a five

if you're calling fives effort, you know.

940

Yeah.

941

And I was gonna give like round six

and I was going to average.

942

Yeah. Potential for fun. Right.

943

And I might even bump up to like eight off

944

depending on the cards that come out

depending on the cards

945

and just maybe some other things

that are kind of worked out.

946

And just five, I'm giving you a five

for the learning curve.

947

And so yeah, did kind of for me right now

average is to about six.

948

A lot of good potential.

949

It's a thing where I feel

there's good bones,

950

maybe. And.

951

Yeah, I guess, yeah.

952

Just to take a 30,000ft view right

out of the box, I would say like 600.

953

Yeah.

954

From given the fact that this was

I mean, from what I understand,

955

a pretty small product from a small group.

956

It's pretty cool.

957

I mean, yeah,

I, I've never made the trading card game.

958

So, so we're looking at production value

pretty far up there.

959

Yeah.

960

Oh yeah. Potential for fun.

961

Looking pretty good.

962

Yeah. Getting to that point of fun.

963

Little bit of a slog.

964

Little bit of a little bit of a challenge.

965

And trying to find the rules

and the mechanics was was difficult.

966

Yeah.

967

Well, thank you very much

for giving me a hand with trying this out.

968

It was fun watching everybody play again.

969

This is Ray and Andy with me.

970

There are some friends of mine

that are far more experienced

971

trading card games than I am.

972

So, thank you very much, guys, I like you.

973

We will talk with you again soon. Awesome.

974

Join us next week here on User Friendly as

we're going to be talking subscriptions.

975

You love the fact that everything

requires a subscription.

976

Now if you do you're one

of the few rare people because most don't.

977

So we're going to be deep diving in there.

978

And until next week,

979

this is User Friendly 2.0 keeping

you safe on the cutting edge.

980

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981

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982

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983

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984

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985

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986

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987

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