In today's episode of Supply Chain Now, we dig into the imperative nature of supply chain transformation in the current global landscape, characterized by incessant change and complexity. Welcome to The Buzz, powered by EasyPost!

Today, hosts Scott Luton and Jake Barr welcome special guests Pierre Abou Hamad, Managing Partner USA with Citwell, Inc., and Koray Kose, Founder and Chief Analyst with Kose Advisory. The conversation includes:

• The multifaceted challenges faced by supply chain leaders, particularly in the context of heightened geopolitical tensions and evolving market demands
• Critical insights from industry leaders, who stress the necessity of embracing innovation and adaptability as key strategies for navigating these turbulent times
• The importance of effective communication and the cultivation of a resilient organizational culture that fosters continuous improvement.
• Tariff impact on coffee prices

Join us as we embark on this exploration, and reflect on the profound implications of these discussions for the future of supply chain management.

Additional Links & Resources:

• With That Said: https://bit.ly/4nmrLBy 
• EasyPost: www.easypost.com
• Supply Chain Dive on coffee prices: https://bit.ly/CoffeePricesUp
• Ideology Versus Pragmatism: Choosing A Side In The Supply Chain Wars: https://bit.ly/SupplyChainWars
• Pierre Abou Hamad on USS Cassin Young: https://bit.ly/DestroyerAndSupplyChain
• EasyPost’s Advanced Tracking: https://get.easypost.com/advanced-tracking 
• Pierre on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pierre-abou-hamad/
• Koray on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/koraykoese/
• The Bridge Webinar: https://event.on24.com/wcc/r/5090303/21DFF09E74113F3ED3821921E9F2CD2D
• Learn more about Supply Chain Now: https://supplychainnow.com
• Watch and listen to more Supply Chain Now episodes here: https://supplychainnow.com/program/supply-chain-now
• Subscribe to Supply Chain Now on your favorite platform: https://supplychainnow.com/join
• Work with us! Download Supply Chain Now’s NEW Media Kit: https://bit.ly/3XH6OVk
• WEBINAR- The Power of Partnership: Building Long-Term Success with Automation Integrators: https://bit.ly/3Ie1WUO
• WEBINAR- The Optimized Digital Transformer: Key Concepts for Enhancing Modern Leadership: https://bit.ly/4gGWCGg
• WEBINAR- Reengineering supply chain planning: How to get more bang for your buck in 2026- 
• https://bit.ly/3VahMCQ
• WEBINAR- Optimizing End-to-End Logistics: Efficiency, Collaboration, and Innovation- https://bit.ly/4ml2TZh
• WEBINAR- Empowering Decision-Making in 2026 with Supply Chain Orchestration: https://bit.ly/3W7swlL

This episode is hosted by Scott Luton and Jake Barr and produced by Trisha Cordes, Joshua Miranda, and Amanda Luton. For additional information, please visit our dedicated show page at: https://supplychainnow.com/buzz-new-era-geopolitical-challenges-1485

Welcome to Supply Chain now the number one voice of supply chain.

Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership from across the globe.

One conversation at a time.

Hey, hey.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be.

Scott Luton and Supply Chain hall of famer Jake Barr with you right here on Supply Chain now.

Welcome to today's live stream.

Hey Jake, how you doing today?

Just another week and new, never normal, my friend.

Just another week.

That's right.

But it's gonna be a big week.

It's gonna be a.

We got lots and lots of innovations and leaders moving mountains to highlight this week.

We've got a great show here teed up today folks.

Today, as you all know, it's the Buzz.

Every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and business news that matters is what we like to call it.

Buzz is powered by our friends at easypost who help make shipping easy, flexible and scalable.

Learn how you can simplify your shipping operations and delight your customers.

Easypost.com We've got a big, big show today.

We're going to be conducting a supply chain leadership pulse.

Check to see what's on the minds of industry movers and shakers.

We're going to be checking in on how companies are navigating this trade war environment, including how it might impact the hot cup of coffee that we enjoy each and every day.

We're going to be taking a look at what one dynamo calls supply chain wars and what may lie ahead.

All that whole bunch more.

And Jake in about 10 minutes or so going to be welcoming in a special duo of guests here on the Buzz.

Karai Kozay with Kozay Advisory and Pierre Abu Hamad with Sit.

Well, Jake should be a great addition to the Buzz, huh?

Absolutely.

Karai and I are symbiotic friends.

He we share a great love for all things Turkish related.

The Grand Bazaar, the Blue Mosque, Turkish coffee I might add.

But more importantly, Sun Tzu.

Love it.

Well, you know what?

I know his charter plane was running late as he was.

He's traveling the word so we'll see.

But Kara and Pierre got a great conversation, teed up with both of them.

So two things folks before we get going here today.

Number one, give us your take in the comments whether you're tuned in via LinkedIn, YouTube X, Facebook, Twitch, no matter.

Just like Trisha who says happy Buzz day.

Let us know where you're watching.

We'd love to connect the dots.

That's right, Trisha some folks may be in beautiful France or Lebanon or Australia or Taiwan.

You name it, let us know.

And folks, if you enjoyed the show today, love for you to share it with a friend and or your network.

They'll be glad you did.

Okay, Jake, before we bring on our esteemed guests, we got some work to do.

You ready to go?

That's roll.

Did you eat your Wheaties this morning?

I did buy weed a bit.

I, I'm glad you know that reference.

I mentioned Baskin Robbins at an event last week and I got about 300 eyeballs from the audience all staring back at me.

Had no idea what Baskin Robbins was.

So whether it's breakfast or ice cream, I've got to update those references.

But before we bring on our guests, let's hit a couple items here I want to start with.

With that said, which dropped over the weekend, we let off this edition of our almost weekly newsletter with a few key takeaways from a live big, big live event that we held a couple of weeks ago featuring some supply chain leaders, rock and roll leaders from across industry.

So Jake, I want to unpack a couple key takeaways from this big event.

I'd love to get your take.

As you mentioned, as we've talked about, Corinne Bursa had the unenviable task of navigating a big conversation over an hour with five senior leaders that are all out there moving mountains.

There's a couple key takeaways that I gathered at least.

Number one, growth doesn't happen when you're comfortable.

It happens when you're stretched, tested and maybe even a little terrified.

Number two, chief supply chain officer of Hasbro.

That's right, the big time toy company, Stephanie Beal.

She spoke about how her team asked AI to review and critique the company's entire supply chain strategy and it responded with a 65 page assessment.

She said it was very humbling but very valuable.

Sylvia Wilkes, CSEO at Lamb Weston, spoke about how her team was using AI to optimize inventory, free up capital and protect at critical cash flow.

Finally, one consensus seemed to emerge.

We all got to stop waiting for stable ground.

It's not not coming.

It is not coming.

Beyond this recap.

In with that said, we included tons of resources and live events, including Jake.

Before I get your your thoughts here, we got a big upcoming event with Deborah Dole.

October 21st, folks.

Another hall of famer.

Another hall of Famer.

That's right.

She's going to talk about a couple different things, but especially how we can optimize our Digital transformation, leadership.

So join us on October 21st.

But back to the future, Jake, back to the past, whatever.

That big panel event that I was just kind of offering some key takeaways.

What were your key takeaways from that big event?

You know, first I want to, I really want to give a shout out.

It was an incredible hour packed with just insight after insight from a leadership perspective.

That's important because I think to a great extent, now is the time when leadership really has to show up.

Right.

Each of those women did a remarkable job of talking about how they in turn, in this new period of never normal, are really leaning into challenge and creating calm out of the chaos.

And I just, I think that was something that resonated significantly, right?

Each one of them, different industry verticals, different challenge sets, each one of them has not shied away from the challenge.

They've actually doubled down.

They've said, hey, it's a time of chaos now.

We need to lean in, be more focused, more choiceful and more precise in how we want to work our plans.

And they're not shying away from how to think about leveraging new tech to help them actually, both, as you heard, assess and actually pragmatically apply it in attacking some of those problems.

Jake, well said, well said.

And you know what, Amanda and Trisha, big thanks.

Behind the scenes, you're dropping the link to go check out the replay of that.

Actually, this is Deborah Dull's event.

You're not going to miss it.

So check it out.

We're going to drop the link.

But folks, also you can find the resources in with that said, almost each and every week.

And we got a link right there.

Tricia, is Johnny on the spot.

And a replay for that big September 3rd event can be found.

And with that said, okay, couple things here.

Let's see.

Daniel tuned in from Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Daniel, great to see you via LinkedIn.

Looking forward to your take on some things here today.

Lori.

Lori, I was just talking about Kansas City just the other day.

Great to see you via LinkedIn.

I look forward to your perspective as well.

Jake, when's the last time you went to Kansas City?

Not that long ago.

If you love great barbecue, you go to Kansas City or Aiken, South Carolina.

But we'll save that for a whole another show.

Hey, Dr. Supply Chain Academy, how about that?

Great to see you from Saudi Arabia here today.

Looking forward to your perspective as well, Jake.

Let's see here.

We've got to get one more thing in before we bring on the incredible dynamic duo of Pierre and Karai.

Let's do a supply chain leadership pulse check, Jake.

A supply chain leadership pulse check.

That is hard for me to even fathom, Jake.

Now you work with movers and shakers around the globe, right?

You've got a network that few, few come close to.

When you think of the priorities, a handful of priorities that are big, maybe common threads amongst global supply chain leadership circles.

What comes to your mind, Jake?

Well, Scott, without question, regardless of vertical, right now we've got folks that are doubling down on getting started with running on the ground, real life uses of AI or helping to do problem solving.

And I could give you multiple examples if, if we had time to go across all the process areas that make up supply chain.

But I think one thing they share in common, they're very focused, they're very targeted, they have tight boundaries on what they're using them for and they're pragmatically being applied to problem statements that they just simply can't solve by muzzling things at the moment.

I like that.

And there's something to be, you know, some of the most powerful forces known to humanity can be very simple.

And the power of focus cannot be overstated.

Am I right, Jake?

Absolutely.

Starting small, crawl your way into it.

Understand what it means in terms of process modifications, what technical support you might need, and then you scale from there and reapply.

I like it.

Simplify, standardize.

Automate is an old phrase I heard way back in the day.

Good stuff, folks.

We'll keep bringing pulse checks to you because our co hosts and our guests, they are connected and got their finger on the pulse.

Like if you do.

All right, so Jake, we gotta get to work.

We've got an incredible panel.

Lori.

I'm not gonna forget about those Chiefs.

Lori, the Kansas City Chiefs fan, the Chiefs won over the weekend.

I think they beat the Giants.

Jake.

I'm not gonna talk about the Bengals or the Falcons because it was not a good, not a good weekend for either Clemson.

Oh, man, the heart.

Shot in the heart.

And Nadine, great to see you from Saudi Arabia.

Back with us again via LinkedIn.

All right, so Jake, let's introduce our terrific guests here on the Buzz, powered by our friends at Easy Post.

Any of our global supply chain now fam already knows Kai Ko as we always learn a ton from him when he joins us.

He leads Koz advisory.

As you may recall, few keep it real as much as Korai does.

But today Karai's bringing a friend and a fellow dynamo.

Pierre Abu Ahmad is a partner and country manager here in the US For Sitwell, a management consulting group that specializes in transformation.

So please join me in welcoming Karai and Pierre.

Hey.

Hey, Kara, how you doing?

Very well yourself.

Great.

Great to see you back from his world travels.

I get some of the best pictures from Karai as he is jet setting here and there and everywhere and making things happen.

And Pierre, good morning.

How you doing?

Good morning.

Good morning, guys.

Doing pretty good.

The sunny sunshine of Boston.

Love that.

Great to see you here today.

Any friend of Karai Kose's is a friend of me and Jake's, I think.

So we're going to start with a fun warmup question and Boston's going to be a big theme.

And Pierre, we're going to reference a Boston related story here in just a minute, but it's a terrific city I enjoyed visiting a year or so ago.

And one of my favorite adventures, Kara, Pierre and Jake was visiting the Liberty, which is now a very unique hotel that was transformed from the former Charles street jail, if I've got that right.

Oh, gosh, if those walls could talk.

It's really cool to sit in the lobby and just have a beer and see people come and go.

Wonderful, beautiful old structure.

But Pierre, I want to ask you, you call Boston home?

Of course, but you've had some great world travels.

What is one city you visited this year that was captivating?

Pierre, the one city I visited this year and I've been around many, many cities, is definitely Beirut.

And seeing how people are just driving forward, it just refilled me, resourced me back again.

And regardless of all other great cities that have been around, it's really something that, that fuels the mind.

Love that.

I enjoyed your commentary from your visit.

Appreciate you sharing that special trip, Kara.

It's been hard to keep up.

My head's been spinning.

All your travel.

What's been one of your favorite cities you visited here this year?

I have a few but if it comes to a bit like back to the roots, I would say Istanbul was a great trip, even though it was less than 48 hours.

But I was able to have one of those Turkish coffees I like to utilize for my research confirmation.

So I did that by the buffer.

So if you ever want to know what's happening in the next few years, you know, Scott, you.

You come with me.

We sit there and I read your coffee.

Yes, we had a nice little exchange about that.

I don't think Maxwell Health delivers the same type of crystal ball.

Oh, no, no.

We gotta go out to the middle of the Bosphorus and sit and have that coffee.

All right, let's do that.

Let's do that.

We'll take the Buzz on the road.

So, Jake, after hearing Pierre and co ride some of their observations, you travel all the time as well.

What's been a cool city you visited this year?

You know, I have to say, Scott, I could pick a half a dozen international cities actually this year because of multiple, call it, client engagements going on.

I've spent a significant amount of time out in Palo Alto, San Mateo, San Jose because of the AI explosion.

And I will tell you, we haven't even seen the edge of what is coming to market in the AI space.

And that is great.

And Corian Bing there in Boston knows what I'm talking about as well because Boston's also a hotbed for then the development of it once it gets some seed capital, et cetera.

But fundamentally, you want to be where the breakthroughs are and where the action is happening.

Hmm.

That is right.

I'm excited to rub elbows with all three of y' all and look forward to sharing your insights and expertise with our audience over the next 40 minutes or so.

So let's do this.

Let's get down to business here on the Buzz.

Powered by Easy Post.

We've got lots of good stuff to get to.

I'm gonna start with Karai.

We're gonna start with some coffee tariffs and coffee.

What a unfun unpleasant combo.

According to the supply chain dive, food and beverage giant J.M.

smucker plans to increase its coffee prices in the next few years due to rising input costs.

Amongst other things, one of the biggest drivers, tariffs on imported coffee beans.

And they aren't alone.

In case you didn't know.

JM Smucker buys 500 million pounds of unroasted coffee beans each year.

Most of that from Brazil and Vietnam, which of course both have been hit with additional big time US tariffs this year.

Brazil of 50%.

And my hunch is that we're going to see more and more of these types of stories as companies look to the consumer to help take the tariff hits.

We shall see.

Pierre, let's start with you here.

Your thoughts on maybe not just coffee, how other organizations are navigating these increased input prices largely due to tariffs.

It's been a common place that coffee but we've seen also that we've got the cocoa beans, we've got olive oil, we've got many of the commodities that are starting to be hit quite hard by the tariffs but also by all the issues in terms of war, traffic and other items.

And what we we are seeing today is most of the companies had already backup plan for the changing the flows, adjusting the inventory positioning that they have.

But for many of them they're lacking the long vision investment that they are starting to look around and saying hey, we might have to find alternate sources.

We might have to start investing with producers because it's not only about planting, you know, coffee bean and trees and so on.

You need also the know how and that's something that people neglect a lot.

I'm the son of a farmer, my grandfather was a farmer and him too.

I can't plant and expect to have even a potato or a tomato because I don't know and I have the land.

So it's not just willing, it's anticipating all of this and people are starting to just skim that bridge by saying hey, we might need more than just money and more than just decision but start investing also in people if want to take those because solutions are not going to be easy on that side.

Pierre loved that and gosh, I bet you got some great family stories on farming.

We have to have you back but vision and know how some of the gaps there.

Kara, what else are you seeing?

I think in when we compare the industry it's not as cohesive because in coffee you have specialty coffee roasters and then you have mass cheap coffee roasters and smackers is one of the cheap like mass coffee roasters and they generally have a very stable demand and supply and do not have sophisticated supply chain planning or other technology that is ready for disruption.

And when disruption happens that changes the cost equation.

They have a hard time to react to that and hence, you know, we see that Once Smuckers raised 18% the price last year, you know, their sales dipped actually 2%, which you can say, okay, that's not too bad.

If you have much higher price and a little bit loss in revenue, it's.

You're still positive.

At the end of the day, that is literally something that they cannot necessarily pull back.

So the problem in the mass coffee environment is you have more than just J.M.

smuckers and America Runs on Dunkin, which is one of their brands as well.

I mean, sometimes they have that.

But quite honestly, yes, two thirds of the Americans drink coffee daily, so it is a beverage of choice for many.

But there is way more to look at.

Like taking the Smuckers impact and say, okay, this is the tariffs causing now this issue.

Because there is industry maturity in that.

Like, think about it like toilet paper, right?

The demand never really goes up or down, but if a disruption happens, everybody goes crazy.

And in this context is switch from Duncan's to another coffee is really sometimes maybe a bit of pain, but not something that you would be calling impossible.

So I feel for Smuckers, but you know, you had to see this coming, right?

If you didn't do anything about it, shame on you.

And yeah, we will see some activity there, maybe even Pierre getting involved in the better supply chain transformation there.

Hey, I like hearing that, hey, Jake, but what are you saying?

I'm going to double down.

Because the reality is this is just symptomatic of a much bigger issue and we can extend it across virtually any of the global commodities.

We have an impact not only of the tariffs and all the ripple effect of the pricing is happening there, but more importantly, we're also having a climate effect situation of scarcity of the goods.

And as Pierre was properly pointing out.

Wait a minute.

It's one thing to say, well, just I'll, I'll alternate switch between sources.

Wait a minute.

Rare earth materials, commodities.

There are only so many places you can actually go to get grains, et cetera.

Right.

You've got to actually step back and start saying, wait a minute, if this is going to be a continuing situation, I actually need to step back and say, hey, we may need to actually cultivate a potato crop in a certain area of the world that we've never done before.

We may need to double down from a technology you like to refer to it.

And I do too.

As you know, out of chaos, there is always an opportunity.

We're big fans of Sun Tzu, right?

You must rethink those battles in advance.

Well, said Jake.

Well said.

We could probably spend the next hour just focus on this first story, but we got a lot more to get to here today.

T squared says the butterfly effect and the law of unintended consequences are both colliding here.

Well said and appreciate you holding down the Fort Force on YouTube folks, with each of these stories we talk about, as always, Trisha and the gang drops a link to them so you don't have to take our word for it.

Go check it out and let us know your take.

We'd love to hear from you.

Okay, Kara, Pierre and Jake, let's get to this next story.

Now Karab, I'm going to try my best to not let you down.

I tell you what, you write some of the most thoughtful, provoking content you find out there and we're going to focus on one one of your latest pieces for our second item today here on the Buzz.

And we're going to talk supply chain wars.

So Korakoze wrote an intriguing piece for Forbes recently where he asserts a variety of ideas and concepts such as and folks, there's about 57 more.

I'm gonna take a few here though.

Number one, how obstacles in modern day supply chains are really choke points and those choke points are levers power.

He writes about how we're transitioning from an era that lasted more than 40 years where the west drove innovation while the east took care of manufacturing.

That long held static structure is changing dramatically, largely thanks to technology and it's adding fuel to supply chain and geopolitical struggles, primarily in the multidimensional fight between China and the US for power and influence.

Korai encourages readers and other countries to not sit in the middle of this global tussle, but rather pick aside, commit and engage.

Kar, I hope you did, I did you justice there.

But folks, you gotta go check out the piece.

Trisha's dropping it here because there's a lot more to that.

Karan, as folks check out that piece in Forbes, what's a couple of things you really hope that readers take away from your thoughts?

I think you summed it up perfectly.

So thank you.

That is confirmation that I wrote it in a way that I actually put the thoughts into words that are conveyable and understandable.

So I appreciate that.

I think what's really important here is a little bit the machiavellism that I put in there that I've actually not seen around a lot where, you know, sit and wait was more the strategy that, you know, this will blow over mentality did not prove right.

And will not prove right because at the end of the day if you take charge and you know think about repatriation of manufacturing or you take on technology first, you think about drastic product portfolio changes.

That means that you actually tried and you trying to be ahead of the curve.

And if you actually sit and wait, you basically go with the old market into a new environment.

And the new environment defines the rule of the new market.

And you just were strong in the old market dynamics but not in the new ones.

And that usually means you're at a disadvantage.

So the machiavellism in there means like the first move advantage that we all know in supply chain and sourcing if you go first to a supplier you probably get the best price because they have still more capacity they haven't planned out.

So you know all the simple things that actually happen everywhere, we need to put it into action in bigger topics as well.

And the moment, you know, supply chain officers and procurement officers hear geopolitics they are like ooh, I cannot comment on that.

I cannot have a position on that.

I have to wait.

I don't have budget.

They have tons of obstacles.

And what I've tried to say is like the obstacle becomes the way and not like the waiting period.

And in that context I think you need to write these things in the convergence that is happening so people walk away with confidence what they can do.

Maybe also a little bit of audacity to take a site and choose.

And if a company says I'm now going to focus on a resilience factor that helps me within the block that I'm operating to constantly supply and create top line revenue.

And they think already 10 steps further than the CPO that thinks I have to cost contain now the next tariff wave Karai.

There is so much there folks.

You got to give it the full read.

Don't just take my Reader's Digest first.

And check it out.

Good stuff as always Pierre.

Lot to comment on but where does your mind go?

My mind goes to one one simple.

I'm a big fan of history and geopolitics.

I think we share that with Coray and the west versus east and when we said hey we have the innovation, we have the knowledge and we're going and the west to, to keep on pushing and we will keep ahead.

Just we have, we have the minds.

I think people just overlooked that history is repeating itself.

The US and Japan had the same, the same point after the World War II where the US was leading.

Japan was basically rebuilding and manufacturing for the US at some point then those guys, really hardworking, really thoughtful and planning for the future, they took sides and they learned from the best.

And at some point Japan today is the powerhouse of innovation on multiple things, on robotics, on AI, on many points even in management and supply chain and manufacturing.

I mean the Lean system and the Toyota production system, for example, is Deming's pdc.

That was at some point learned by the, by the Japanese and, and rolled out.

So and we did the same strategical mistake in the west with China and with the Far east globally that happened in Japan by saying, hey, we're going to innovate and manufacture and those guys are going to be lagging ahead.

And what's happening is that today the west is starting to lag ahead on that one.

Because of that, I think hubris.

What we forgot to learn from history again and again and we can go back further.

It's a common theme, right?

It's a common theme.

We just refuse as humans to really understand our history and how it constantly repeats itself.

Jake, I can't wait to hear your take here.

Your thoughts.

It's easy.

They've made the discussion simple.

They're right.

You've got to understand if you're not learning from history and you become a victim of it.

So true.

It is so true.

When will we ever learn?

Goodness gracious.

Really quick aside, Karai, I want to make sure folks are well aware of your great work with Glob Sec as well.

We had General John Allen with us on a previous edition of the Bridge.

It was eye opening when it comes to critical minerals.

So Karai, where would you recommend folks go to check out your work with Glob Sec?

So there is of course the globsec.org webpage where you can go into the research that we published for free, which is actually I think a good thing to just bring knowledge to the people without creating walls around it.

So I think that's a good approach.

And then of course the webinar we had is also freely available on demand on your platform.

And last but not least, just to give us a shout out, you know, contact me, contact General Ellen, connect with both of us on LinkedIn and while we're traveling, we are present.

So we're certainly a responsive in that case.

So you are present.

I don't know how you do it, Korab, but you're very present.

Folks, make sure you check out that free research.

You will get informed with some eye opening, eye opening stuff and issues of our time that we've got to tackle.

To Kuran, Pierre and Jake's points.

Jonathan, History is a great teacher and so great to see you jt.

It's been too long.

My friend Henry via Nigeria via LinkedIn.

Henry, let us know your take on these topics we're talking about here today.

And again we dropped the link to Karaz latest Forbes article right there in the chat.

Okay, so let's move on to what I think is going to be a much more lighter note.

Jake, Pierre and Koran.

So Pierre, I think we're going to a lot in common the more I hear your perspective here on the Buzz today, powered by our friends at Easy Post.

I've always had a knack finding business leadership and even supply chain observations in the most mundane aspects of my daily lives.

Amanda would call it boring aspects of my daily life.

That's okay though.

Just recently I've written about how my daughter's volleyball experiences well, how it illustrated core leadership principles or how a small simple cut in the worst part of your thumb can have devastating consequences to your morning routine.

Just like how the smallest of problems can ripple out across any supply chain ecosystem.

Tremendous repercussions.

Pierre, I want to share a couple images that you took as you visited the USS Cassin.

Young, right?

I say that right.

You wrote on the interesting parallels between a World War II destroyer and modern supply chain operations.

Here's a picture of the ship here.

And then we've got the supply officer's office.

Look at those old typewriters.

I'd be in trouble with those things.

And then if you, if you squint, you got this, this sign here, Supply Operations office.

And note this, the very first sentence there.

Accurate record keeping and paperwork were as essential to the ship's efficiency as weapons maintenance.

Hey, I'd love it.

Learning from history for sure.

But Pierre, share your thoughts in terms of the parallels between World War II naval ships and modern supply chain operations.

I was with my kids that day and I always try to explain to them because when I say I'm a consultant and in supply chain it feels like science fiction or something that they unable to understand.

I'll just try to tie it down to something on that one.

And it was strapped short in my tracks when, when we were visiting when I saw that, you know, it's a small, it might be 20 square feet or something like that office.

And the problem made is hey, those guys were in the middle of nowhere with very few support, if none at some point under pressure permanently.

And the only way for them to run a tight ship is to secure that their supply, their planning, all the transactions were kept accurate and everything that they were doing was in the scope of the supply officer, meaning from food down to the munitions and so on.

And also I reflected by saying it didn't change much between that era where you have the supply officer somewhere in a small closet, the company and using very old technology.

Because sometimes when you look at, look at spreadsheets, spreadsheets is just those typewriters but with the screen instead of having doing those manually at some point.

And I hear customers and people want to slap AI on everything when, when you strip down to the bone what they have in terms of record keeping and accurate transactions, it's the same.

It's just that they have laptops on the screen instead of that typewriter.

So try to explain to them, hey guys, you need to go a little bit ahead of that.

As you said, simplify, standardize your process.

And then once you've scoped it, okay, let's go to do something.

Because we knew that that supply officer needed to keep the ship afloat.

The ship fed the ship full of munitions to do its mission.

And if you don't have those, you don't ensure your mission.

Yeah, love it.

Folks, we're dropping a link to the full blog, LinkedIn blog, I'll call it right there in the chat.

Karai, comment on Pierre's observations there?

No, I agree.

You can't improve a dirty process with technology.

You can utilize technology to get better data out of dirty data because at some point you didn't clean up and it just became, I would almost say liability to your decision making.

But that's not sustainable.

That's just a one time effort.

Right.

So once you're done with that, then the process is still dirty.

So you go back to the same habit though.

Changing habits in supply chain is core to your transformation.

If you don't change your habits, which is based on people and processes, the technology really is not as impactful as you want it to be given the amount of money you would invest into it.

So Pierre is absolutely right.

You know, dirty process, good technology equals to no good results.

What's old is new.

Again, these cycles that we've been referencing throughout the show.

Jake.

I can't wait to hear the USS Jake Barr's take on Pierre.

Hey.

And as Per knows, he was looking at a very lean whole world simplified process.

Right, now let's compare to the new battleship and the hundreds of thousands of new electrical circuit components, et cetera, that help with navigation and munitions and everything else, right?

And so the point is we added a ton of process complexity, but did we model the follow up, the backup systems?

Right.

For how we're going to be able to operate if that goes down, how do we make sure that we're plugging in knowledge of the change in the process so that we can actually stay ahead of the need for what we should keep records on and how frequently and what's the failure rate of those parts and life cycle and how do we bring those into account?

Right.

So great news in the story is supply chain complexity, no matter what we look at, has been amplified by magnitude of ten to one hundred or a thousand.

Right.

And you must keep pace with that if in fact you're going to drive the same results.

Because wait a minute here, said it very eloquently, wait, I need to make sure they're fed things stays afloat and we stay armed to do our purpose.

You know, I enjoyed all three of your perspectives here.

I just want to go back to this snapshot again because folks, we can take heart in this.

If one of the most critical roles in all the US Navy can use this as their resources to get critical work done to defeat one of the biggest evils that the world has ever seen, we can do what we we do in global supply chain now.

So Pierre, I love this perspective and come on back and bring your next visits and supply chain observations with you.

And if Amanda calls it boring, Pierre, I just know I've got a brother in arms here.

Let's see here, Lori.

Lori's a Coast Guard veteran.

Lori says when in the Coast Guard we used to load stores and goods at port via a human chain from the dock to the storage cooler decks below.

How about that, Lori?

Love it.

I'll tell you, our global supply chains and their performances can learn so much from our veterans and our militaries.

Of course, Henry said humans have shown a pattern of repetitive behavior.

History is a great pointer for learning.

That is well said, Henry.

Shakespearean, in fact.

Okay, I got to move along, Korah.

I think we're just going to do a check, a live check on this live show.

Kara, I think you've got a hard stop here in just a couple minutes.

Is that right?

A quarter to?

Yes.

Okay, so let's do this.

I want to make sure folks know how to connect with you.

Korakoze, we're going to talk about some transformation thoughts and a few things.

Of course, we'll have Karai Kozay back with us.

But how can folks track you down, Kara, beyond LinkedIn because you constantly crank out.

That brain just does not stop working.

Kara, how can folks track you down?

I always post about events I attend.

So you want to meet in person.

You usually won't be disappointed to go to those because they're curated to be fun but also very insightful and with a good edge of provocation into your thoughts.

So try that once.

The second one is if you of course can't be where I'll be in that moment, you know, reach out on LinkedIn, connect there and just send me a message over that portal.

The other one is of course just on our web page, but that's almost too anonymous.

Right.

But you.

You feel free.

Yeah, right now it's.

It's about to be the Broadway of supply chain soon.

Kar or I would actually put the burden on you.

Just ask Scott and Scott will connect you.

Sorry.

Blessed are the relationships.

Relationships certainly matter.

And I've been a long fan of your work and Jake's and I'm a new fan of Pierre's.

So folks, we're gonna make it really easy.

Trisha, is Johnny on the spot.

Putting Karai's LinkedIn link right there.

We've got cozay advisory.com and also be sure to check out that last Forbes article, which I think we've got links to Glob Sec and some of your other stuff.

So, Karai Kose, great to have you here today and we look forward to having you back again soon.

Thank you so much.

You bet.

Talk soon, Karai.

All right, Jake and Pierre, y' all can't go anywhere because we got more work to do.

Karai gets.

But not overtime.

That's right.

Let's see here.

And yet Trisha is dropping a link.

I'll just share in Coz Advisory.

So check that out, folks.

And Lori, I think this is the name of the vessel.

The United States Coast Guard cutter Chase.

Outstanding.

Laura, I appreciate you sharing that here today.

Looking forward to your perspective.

We got more stuff to get to.

So, Pierre and Jake, before we get on to our next topic, I'm still fascinated with the pictures you took of that vessel, Pierre.

But I'd like to share this note from our friends at easypost.

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You can learn more via the link that we'll be dropping in the comments.

Okay, let's center our conversation, Jake and Pierre for just a minute on the always hot topic of supply chain transformation.

It's one of my favorite topics.

So Jake and I spoke earlier, Pierre, before you joined us around that big powerhouse panel session that we conducted a few weeks back.

And one of the many key themes that emerged was transformation is not just a phase, it is the norm.

That was a key theme from that hour long discussion.

So very true statement.

And Pierre, I want to ask you what's been a key element or two from some of the most successful supply chain transformations that you've been part of.

To put it simply, focus.

First one is what are we wanting to achieve?

And not say I just want to transform.

Right?

And the second one is human engagement.

On that one is really explaining the why for everyone.

Because the technical side, you can always get it right, you can always have support on that one.

But if you are not able to focus, explain the why and then engage people behind you, you're going to lose them.

I had the chance of working for both small medium businesses and big corporates.

And for both type of businesses, it's project over, project over project over, transformation of a new thing, the new CRM, the new IT system, the new erp, the new approach, the cyber attack, this stuff and so on.

And sometimes when I sit down at my customers, hey, if I wasn't that general managers with all the projects I have to manage, managing the project is a project by itself, just his portfolio of projects.

So transformation is not only a transition, it's norm.

You always have things that you need to do and if you don't explain and embark your team with you on each and every single one and has it justified and well scoped, well, you're just going to spend money and time and people and then you'll have a, I'd say transformation fatigue and you lose everyone on the road.

So whenever we engage on those kind of topics, I always secure that, hey, why are we doing this?

With whom are we doing this?

And I really want a neat scope that interacts with all the transformation going on.

But I want a neat scope to secure that we did and we achieved what we wanted to to do and not just, hey, put money to transform.

Yeah, I know there's so much more there, but that's quite a two minute response.

Lots of stuff to chew on.

Jake, you've been a part of tons of growth and expansion and transformations.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts here, Jake.

Yeah, first and foremost, I want to give Eric a shout out on what he brought up because fundamentally, you know, I can always tell how folks when I walk in in an operation are really thinking about the effort underway.

Because if I pose a question to them around, well, what is your job?

Because I go to the leadership first.

Because what I'm trying to deduce is they really understand that transformation is constant.

Right.

And so this isn't a one time effort.

So if you're really treating this as a one time effort, you really don't get it.

In fact, any supply chain leader really is paid for two things.

You're paid for the delivery of the day to day operational excellence, but you're also very importantly paid to be able to step back and understand what is the pathway in the journey map where I'm going to completely tear up and blow up what we're doing today in order to be prepared to compete effectively in the years ahead.

And so breaking down, as Pierre said, the steps into bite size chunks that make logical sense against current business conditions and needs, and then being able to articulate to the operation the why, that's very critical because you really have to have an understanding of if I can't make you, as one of my team members, understand and have passion about where we're going, I've already lost.

Right.

No matter what I want to be able to do, I've got to be able to have them step up and be owners of that change, drivers of that change, and actually become the change themselves.

I tell you, we could do a whole daily series for the next seven years on this topic.

And I think one common theme that both of y' all spoke to once we can really lean into this constant state of transformation, not a start line and a finish line, that transformation fatigue, Pierre, that you mentioned, that's something that leaders really have to be really in tune with because it happens.

On any effort you kick off a project, everybody, a lot of folks can be really excited.

They see the progress and then a few weeks in, you always have that dip.

Right.

That happens principally in cultures that haven't been trained to understand that our objective is continuous improvement, no matter what.

Excellent comment.

Excellent.

So if I'm walking into a shop who really, for the first time ever, is trying to really take on change, they're automatically at a disadvantage because they have not built into the operation an expectation that we are on a constant improvement journey.

And we're constantly looking for the next process breakthrough, the next operational breakthrough, the next breakthrough with our suppliers, next breakthrough on our reactions to market, the next breakthrough on our portfolio from a technology or a packaging or a performance standpoint, that culture lives, breathes and accelerates change.

So, Jake, I wouldn't disagree any of that.

I would just add to that going back to one of the things Pierre mentioned and you spoke to.

If we don't effectively communicate the why and the what's in it for me and our people are just simply hanging on until their next perceived milestone and then everything breaks loose.

It is incumbent to both of Yalls points on leadership to build that culture where the mindset is, this is how we do business.

Let me ask you all this, Pierre and Jake, y' all bear with me here.

So in this constant state of transformation, how do we bake in brief respites?

Because every day full of change, they aren't all the same.

You got some that's really gonna be tough and challenging.

And when you go home, you need a marble and a.

And a Budweiser and others aren't as bad.

How do you bake in some breathers, Pierre?

Two things that we.

We've been doing is the first one is celebrate.

I think people overlook that the just saying thank you.

And that's the first, of course.

And also celebrating the closure of the step and showing the results that been so people step back because they are, as Jack was saying, you are constantly focusing, delivering your daily operations, and then you have a whirlwind of transformations going on and you just don't realize what happened at some point.

And it's.

I try to say, usually, hey, it's like when you're in a diet, just step back and look in the mirror before and after what happened and celebrate those few moments.

That's the first respite.

And the second one, from a management point of view, that's also the leader's acumen to say, hey, let's give ourselves maybe two weeks, three weeks, four weeks without launching any new stuff and just let people from a psychological point of view settle with what they're doing and avoid, for example, launching something by the end of the year and wait for January to start something and so on.

So really that timing and celebrating here.

Well said, Jake.

What would you add?

I'd add a third component, and that is realize the people you're using to deliver the individual breakthroughs.

And you not only celebrate the success, but you also rotate the resources because you're allowing others to actually contribute in the same way as a previous team member.

So rotation of the employees for other challenges is very crucial because then it's not.

Pierre is the one over and over and over again on every single project.

So I always encourage state, where you're using effectively a SWAT team.

You're bringing them together, giving them a purpose, unleashing them against the opportunity, celebrating the wins, and then cycling back into the operations and pulling another set of team members actually get the same experience.

Because then success breeds success.

You're able to double down, triple down, quadruple down on the number of people.

That truly is because as Pierre knows, hey, program management is every day, you.

Know, as you are both sharing these things.

It takes me back to the first time I met the late, great Sandra McQuillen in person.

And gosh, she had a presence.

At the time, she was a chief supply chain officer with Kimberly Clark.

And I was interviewing her and her team about the transformations they were leading.

Anyway, it was amazing what they were sharing.

I got kind of caught up in the moment.

I said, gosh, y' all must not get any sleep at night.

She's like, oh, no, Scott, hang on.

You're getting us all wrong.

We stop and we celebrate as we cross each finish line.

But there's lots of finish lines.

It kind of goes to Pierre, your first point.

Recognition is so important as we make all these accomplishments in this endless state of transformation, because, gosh, when people are receiving the credit that they've earned to achieve these accomplishments, man, black bulbs go off.

She was making a really important point, and it was a really powerful eureka moment for me.

So, Scott, Sandra was a dear friend of mine, but I also want to throw in a perhaps a fourth point, and I think it highlights one of the skills that she also had.

You know, great leaders are actually involved in participating.

They're not managing from the corner or outside.

They actually have rolled up the sleeves and they're actually in the operation.

They know as much about what's going on in the focused effort and in the transformation.

They are showing up as problem solvers and help and resources against those tough challenges as opposed to stepping back.

And Sandra did that in spades.

Well said, well said.

She is missed very often.

Okay, Pierre and Jake.

Pierre, before we wrap here today, I've got a billion dollar question for you.

You ready to go?

Yes.

Let's go.

Always.

So Jake was talking earlier at the start of the buzz here, powered by our friends easypost, about fourth quarter priorities for supply chain leaders.

Right.

So Pierre I want to give you the opportunity any bold supply chain predictions for peak season or the remainder of the year from say a supply chain or a trade perspective.

Pierre, my bet would be that we're going through and towards a crisis on all the electronics, chips and components even worse than what's happening now with all the geopolitics going around the rare earth stuff.

Things are going to move around, lots of investments going to start and we heard a lot about the AI servers and so on relocation and other topics.

I would say from a very down to earth point of view challenge for this year and next earliest quarter is finding solutions to secured those electronic components.

I'd say and the other one, given the state today of global food, in terms of droughts, in terms of climate change and items, I'm foreseeing some real issues with at least wheat coming in from Eastern Europe and also for olive oil in the next few days and the next few weeks.

The season has been really bad.

We not talking a lot about this but prices and what we were talking about on coffee are going to reflect on on other communities pretty soon and pretty much that would be my two takes.

Pierre.

Really appreciate that.

Jake.

We were talking about this question in the pre show and I was offering Pierre a couple different off ramps there.

Have some fun with it or keep.

It real and he's keeping it real.

Those are very fundamental and real.

And Jake, would you add any you get the bonus prediction here on the heels of what Pierre just shared where you know it's going to get even tougher.

The ramifications I think of this, what I'll call a needless trade war, are going to really bear a lot more painful fruit in the months ahead.

Anything to add there, Jake?

Look Scott, I could go to DEFCON 4 with you around some of the projections, but I'm just simply going to say that the tit for tat on ramifications of the tariff implications are not over by a long shot.

And in fact you better have your teams really amped up to run multiple scenario reviews of base components, base ingredients, base materials because we aren't at the bottom of this yet.

It's past the time to invest, equip your team with modern innovation and technology, make their days easier to delight their customers.

Okay.

What a great conversation here today.

Wide ranging, lots of keep it real moments.

I really appreciate the conversation we'll have to have.

Kurai And Pierre back.

I'll tell you, I'll make quite a supply chain band with John Wayne global supply chain Jake Barr.

So Pierre Abu Hamad with Sitwell.

How can folks track you down?

Pierre the easiest one is to add me on LinkedIn or follow me up on LinkedIn.

That's where I'm not a professional.

I'd say blogger on LinkedIn but I try to share what I'm doing and some thoughts and articles on that and on our website also.

So sitwell.com you'll be able to find our latest publications and news and user stories that we have with our customers.

And also I I'm invited to conferences and speaking here and there.

So you'll have all of those news with my contact detail Also on my LinkedIn profile.

Happy to share and keep on with the other talk whatever you want guys.

Outstanding.

Well Pierre, please keep writing.

Please keep writing at the intersection of supply chain and leadership learnings and your travels.

I will tell you it's really well done and it really brings lessons home that may be just out of reach for a lot of folks out there including myself sometimes.

So check out peers on LinkedIn.

Thank you Tricia and also sitwell.com us because I think you're leading the charge for Sitwell here across the country here.

So y' all check that out.

Also I should say check out our friends at Easy Post doing some speaking of innovative technology.

Check out what Lori, Kevin and the team are doing right there.

Big thanks to their wonderful sponsorship of the Buzz all September long.

Jake, you get last question today.

One key did takeaway from a big conversation on the Buzz here today.

You heard excellent examples today of how you should be walking away saying my mindset.

We are truly in a new period of new never normal.

And the disgusting thing is if you walk away from the discussion and you do nothing, you only put yourself further behind.

I want to really give Karai is due.

He is one of those strategists that are out there that really asks you to pause for a moment and to reconsider.

Is your strategy on point or not?

And do you have holes that are really going to expose how the operation is able to deliver consistently over the months and the year coming ahead.

And I think if you didn't walk away with a reinforced appreciation for need to get off my ass and really get to work, you've missed the point.

You've missed the point.

Don't miss the point, folks.

This is a very actionable conversation and I really enjoyed Pierre, Jake and Kuraz perspective here Today.

All right, we got to leave it there.

I want to thank everybody.

What a big show here today.

Korakoze with Kozay advisory.

Don't miss out the great research that the Globsec team is doing, so make sure you check that out as well.

Pierre Abu Ahmad with Sit.

Well, thanks so much, Pierre.

You're welcome back.

I'm my friend.

My pleasure.

I should be right back and have those kind of conversations with you guys.

We look forward to it.

Pierre, Jake Barr, always a pleasure knocking out these conversations with you, my friend.

Thanks for being here.

Trisha is dropping some links there.

You can check out all of our content live and otherwise.

We encourage you to do that.

Big thanks, Amanda and Trisha behind the scenes today.

Big thanks to our global audience.

I know we couldn't hit everybody's comments and questions here today, but we sure do appreciate you.

You're our North Star, so keep all the feedback coming.

Here's your homework, folks, as we are about halfway through one of the few remaining Mondays of the year.

September 22nd.

It's hard to believe.

Hope you enjoyed the show, but you got to take one thing from Jake or Pierre or Kara.

Share it with your team.

Put it into practice, deeds, not words.

That's how we're going to continue transforming global supply chain and not leaving anybody behind.

So with all that said, on behalf the entire supply Chain now team Scott Luden, challenge you do good, get forward, be the change that's needed.

We'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.

Thanks, everybody.

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