Shownotes
Kelly came to firearms late and on purpose. She grew up in Clearwater, Florida, didn't grow up around guns, and her only early exposure was the wooden rifles her dad kept with a trigger lock. She got her carry permit in 2017 and then did nothing with it for years. What changed everything was March 27, 2023, the day of a school shooting in Nashville. She had friends with kids who went to school there, it hit home, and she decided to stop being unprepared. The day after, she joined a gym and joined the Armed Women of America.
From there she went all in. She took beginner, intermediate, and advanced pistol classes, the Carry for Life class through LFX Firearms Training, vehicle defense training, and a women's situational awareness class where one line stuck with her: in a stressful situation you don't rise to the occasion, you fall to your level of training. She talks through the real process of becoming a carrier, trying firearms at a range rental and at a women's event called Gals Day, figuring out what fit her hand and her body, carrying unloaded for a while, then loaded, then finally feeling confident enough to carry outside the house. She landed on a SIG 365 with a Holosun 407 red dot. She also found her way into the industry through photography and videography work with Kenzie, the Gals Day organizer, which led to her first SHOT Show.
Hosts John and Kaylee, who work as media faces of GOA, dig into how welcoming and safety-focused the firearms community is, what it's like to walk into a gun store or SHOT Show for the first time, and how much of the industry still runs on handshakes and relationships. The back half turns to advocacy. Kelly makes the case that a firearm is an equalizer and that the conversation itself is the bridge for people who would never call themselves gun people. Kaylee breaks down how loaded language like the Safer Community Act and red flag laws is used to sell gun control, why the loopholes are the criminals, and why restoring the Second Amendment right matters as much as good training.
Questions this episode answers
What finally pushed Kelly Zachary from holding a carry permit to actually carrying a firearm?
Kelly got her carry permit in 2017 but did nothing with it for years. The March 2023 Nashville school shooting, which hit close to home because friends had kids in school there, pushed her to stop being unprepared, and the day after she joined a gym and the Armed Women of America.
How do you build the confidence to carry a loaded gun with a round in the chamber?
Kelly built confidence in stages, carrying unloaded for a while, then loaded, then finally outside the house. She leaned on stacked training and repetition until she felt ready, summing it up as needing to practice and get all the instruction she could until she felt confident.
What's the smartest way to figure out which firearm and holster actually fit you?
Kelly recommends trying firearms hands-on, using a range rental and a women's event called Gals Day to find what fit her hand and body. That process led her to a SIG 365 with a Holosun 407 red dot.
What is it like walking into a gun store or SHOT Show as a complete beginner?
Kelly and the hosts describe the firearms community as welcoming and safety-focused for newcomers, and much of the industry still runs on handshakes and relationships. Her own path led to her first SHOT Show through photography and videography work.
Why does Kelly Zachary call a firearm an equalizer, and how does she bring it up with non-gun people?
Kelly argues a firearm is an equalizer and that the conversation itself is the bridge for people who would never call themselves gun people. She frames carrying as a personal choice to take your own self-protection into your hands.
How does loaded political language like the Safer Community Act and red flag laws shape gun policy?
Host Kaylee breaks down how loaded terms like the Safer Community Act and red flag laws are used to sell gun control, arguing the real loopholes are the criminals and that restoring the Second Amendment right matters as much as good training.
Why do gun laws hurt law-abiding citizens while criminals ignore them?
The episode makes the case that restrictive gun laws restrain law-abiding citizens while criminals ignore them, which is why Kaylee frames the criminals themselves as the loopholes and calls for restoring the 2A right rather than adding restrictions.
How welcoming and safety-focused is the firearms community to newcomers?
Kelly's experience and the hosts' discussion paint the firearms community as welcoming and safety-focused, with women's events like Gals Day and groups like the Armed Women of America helping her find her tribe and get started.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and meet Kelly
- 00:17 — Growing up without firearms in Florida
- 01:46 — The Nashville school shooting that changed everything
- 02:35 — Joining Armed Women of America and stacking training
- 05:03 — Kaylee's own first-pistol story
- 07:13 — Building confidence to carry loaded
- 11:05 — Walking into the gun store and Gals Day
- 13:13 — Finding her tribe and a SIG 365 with a red dot
- 18:13 — Bringing her husband and kids along
- 19:49 — Her first SHOT Show and breaking into the industry
- 29:54 — The Circle Bar, handshakes, and how the industry works
- 37:45 — The firearm as an equalizer and starting the conversation
- 43:43 — Loaded language, red flag laws, and the media narrative
- 51:56 — Soft targets, protecting kids, and the natural right
- 54:14 — Where to find Kelly Carries and sign-off
About the guest
Kelly is a Tennessee mom who came to firearms as an adult. She grew up in Clearwater, Florida without guns in the home, moved to Tennessee with her family after high school, and got her carry permit in 2017. After the March 2023 Nashville school shooting, she committed to training and joined the Armed Women of America, where she became a chapter leader. She has taken beginner, intermediate, and advanced pistol classes, the Carry for Life class through LFX Firearms Training, and vehicle defense training. She carries a SIG 365 with a Holosun 407 red dot. She works in photography and videography in the firearm industry alongside Kenzie, the organizer of the women's event Gals Day, and attended her first SHOT Show. She runs a small Instagram platform called Kelly Carries focused on helping women arm themselves and get involved.
Key quotes
"in the event of a stressful situation, you don't rise to the occasion. You fall to your level of training." — Kelly
"So the day after the school shooting, I joined a gym and I joined the Armed Women of America." — Kelly
"I just needed to practice and needed to feel confident. And so I just did it and got all the instruction I could until I felt confident" — Kelly
"I have found my tribe. This is incredible. There are already women doing this. I'm so excited." — Kelly
"Your body can't go where your mind has not gone." — Kelly
"firearms are an equalizer. And so I think that that is just an important thing." — Kelly
"The best activist we can be is an activist in our own home." — Kaylee
"you're making a choice to take your own self protection into your hands." — John
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the Second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're joined by Kelly.
Speaker B:Kelly, how are you today?
Speaker C:I'm doing well.
Speaker C:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker B:Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker B:Can you go ahead?
Speaker B:Let's start with a little bit about your backstory, who you are, and how you got into this.
Speaker C:So I grew up in Clearwater, Florida.
Speaker C:I didn't grow up around firearms.
Speaker C:My dad had wooden rifles around, always with the trigger lock.
Speaker C:I moved up to Tennessee with my family after high school, got married, got a house, had a couple kids, and last summer we got a dog.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:So you're fairly new to the Second Amendment community.
Speaker A:What has that been like from day one, purchasing your first gun to where you're at now?
Speaker C: 've had my carry permit since: Speaker C:Didn't do anything with it.
Speaker C:Felt it was important to have it back.
Speaker C: eded a permit In Tennessee in: Speaker C:And I said, yes.
Speaker C:Never carried before, didn't know anything.
Speaker C:I brought a target belt to the.
Speaker C:To the video.
Speaker C:She knew nothing, and so learned a little bit there.
Speaker C: ituational awareness class in: Speaker C: ,: Speaker C:And for some reason, it just shook me.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker C:It hit home.
Speaker C:I had friends there with their kids, go to school there.
Speaker C:I don't know, there was just something about it that, like, hit me.
Speaker C:So I go to school, I pick up my kids that day, and the head of school says, what would we have done?
Speaker C:What would we do if that were here?
Speaker C:And I thought, okay, I have my carry permit, but I have no training.
Speaker C:And at my women's situational awareness class, he says, in the event of a stressful situation, you don't rise to the occasion.
Speaker C:You fall to your level of training.
Speaker C:I said, I have no training.
Speaker C:I have none.
Speaker C:I need some training, so I am going to change my life.
Speaker C:So the day after the school shooting, I joined a gym and I joined the Armed Women of America.
Speaker C:So I took beginner intermediate advanced pistol classes from the chapter leader.
Speaker C:I took the Carry for life class from LFX Firearms Training, and I just needed to know all the things.
Speaker C:So I kept taking training courses.
Speaker C:And then the.
Speaker C:The lady at the chapter leader at the Armed Movement America was like, hey, you know, come to our meetings, we need help with chapter leaders.
Speaker C:So I became a chapter leader, took vehicle defense training.
Speaker C:I read this book called Sharp Women.
Speaker C:I just needed to know all of the things.
Speaker C:And so I started to feel more confident and I got a holster, I got a firearm and carried around, unloaded for a while, carried, loaded, and then I finally felt confident.
Speaker C:So I'm carrying outside the house now, still learning, but I am just diving in.
Speaker C:I just had to know all of the things.
Speaker C:And so here I am still learning and trying to learn as quickly as possible.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's important to know when something that is a tragedy and we see these tragedies and they hit home for us, you find people go into one of two camps.
Speaker A:Very few people in the midst of tragedy stay in an apathetic state.
Speaker A:You have those that become radically anti guns and those who get armed and those who get armed are so much more empowered and they seem just like on a surface level, happier because they know that they are not reliant upon anybody else.
Speaker A:They can protect themselves and their family.
Speaker A:They are able to protect themselves and their family.
Speaker A:That was the, the situation that happened for me as well.
Speaker A:When I purchased my first pistol.
Speaker A:I was in my very first apartment off campus in college.
Speaker A:There was a stabbing and a shooting right on the grounds or right beside of my apartment complex to the point that you could hear it.
Speaker A:And I sat in my little one bedroom apartment and was like, there are two exits.
Speaker A:What am I going to do if someone wants to come in?
Speaker A:Because the little chain lock on my door and a deadbolt in a very old apartment complex, it was not, not fancy, very old apartment complex.
Speaker A:That's probably not going to stop anybody if we're being really honest about it.
Speaker A:So what am I going to do?
Speaker A:And so I, like you, went, purchased a firearm and started getting the tools necessary to be confident.
Speaker A:Now that started a whole other chain of events because I've very quickly learned that even with a carry permit, you can't carry on College campuses in Tennessee and the amount of off limits places were many in our right off of campus.
Speaker A:But it was the fact that I knew that I had something helped me sleep better at night and I wanted other women to have that something.
Speaker A:What you did for your family, what you've done for the community around you, I dare say that you've probably talked to several people who haven't owned guns after you've gone through those trainings and you Felt confident.
Speaker A:And you've probably had some conversations about why you've chosen to carry.
Speaker A:And those conversations impact people in a way that a Facebook page or a person outside of their community ever will.
Speaker A:The best activist we can be is an activist in our own home.
Speaker B:You brought up a good point.
Speaker B:A lot of people take the class and really don't do anything with it.
Speaker B:And then as they continue in their journey, they have an event or an epiphany that they start wanting to do more.
Speaker B:The big thing that, the big takeaway that most people don't talk about is there's a lot of people who start off carrying and they're uncomfortable with it.
Speaker B:They're uncomfortable with carrying around in the chamber, they're uncomfortable carrying it loaded.
Speaker B:And you really hit the nail on the head where you have to build up that confidence.
Speaker B:Because putting a gun on every morning or putting a gun on every day, you're making a choice to take your own self protection into your hands.
Speaker B:And it's a big step to make that decision.
Speaker B:It's a big step to make the decision to take training to further your education.
Speaker B:Training is not cheap and ammo is not cheap.
Speaker B:But to further your education, after the concealed carry class, first off, I applaud you.
Speaker B:It's a fantastic.
Speaker B:Especially taking a vehicle tactics class that's even.
Speaker B:Those are one of the most fun classes you could take.
Speaker B:But the big thing is a lot of people get the permit, they don't carry, or they start off on this journey feeling not confident and not feeling like they can carry.
Speaker B:You do you know what switched in your mind and when, where you were like, okay, now I feel confident.
Speaker B:I feel comfortable carrying with a round of the gym because a lot of people are worried like, hey, will this accidentally go off?
Speaker B:Will something happen?
Speaker B:And we know like there are tons of safeties on, on firearms internally to combat that.
Speaker B:But in the mindset, you're always got this, this little like cricket in the back of your head going, hey, this could happen.
Speaker B:So when did you see that, that confidence?
Speaker B:When you were like, yes.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:What was that journey like?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I think, you know, taking it's.
Speaker C:It's all such a process.
Speaker C:Taking the class as a process.
Speaker C:Figuring out what holster you want to use, figuring out what works with your body, figuring out what firearm fits in your hand.
Speaker C:There are lots of steps to carrying and so there are steps beyond carrying that I guess maybe some people just, I don't know, get tired of or are too intimidated by.
Speaker C:But I think there's so much that has to be in your muscle memory.
Speaker C:You just have to train and practice because with anything you're not, you're not, you don't know what to do innately.
Speaker C:So I think dry firing, getting the steps to a draw in my muscle memory, just being comfortable with something on my body that is plastic and is foreign.
Speaker C:It just takes time, I think, to get used to that, to get used to the steps that you need for drawing.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I just needed to practice and needed to feel confident.
Speaker C:And so I just did it and got all the instruction I could until I felt confident and then I didn't immediately feel like I could defend myself.
Speaker C:But it was progress.
Speaker C:So I think trying to make progress is all you can ask now since.
Speaker B:It is fresh in your mind.
Speaker B:Because this is all recent and I'm going to feel old because I've been doing this for years.
Speaker B:What was the feeling walking into the gun store for the first time and looking at the field of options, the magnitude of options out there and the choices, and there's somebody behind the counter talking to you and trying to push you or lean you in a certain direction.
Speaker B:What was that like for you?
Speaker B:How did you go?
Speaker B:Okay, well, this is the one I want to carry, this is the gun I want to buy.
Speaker B:And especially since we talked about it before, there can be a lot of pressure from the people behind the counter to pick out a certain firearm that they prefer.
Speaker B:So how did that play in your mind?
Speaker B:What made you ultimately decide the gun you went with and how was that experience?
Speaker C:So I went to a range and paid a rental fee and thought, I'll just try all these out, see how they feel, see what fits in my hand.
Speaker C:A lot of the Armed Women of America meetings were like trying out other women's firearms.
Speaker C:And I think that is a great way to see what you like, because they're not cheap.
Speaker C:Honestly, I think that there was an event called Gals Day that this girl named Kenzie threw.
Speaker C:And it was about a month and a half after the school shooting.
Speaker C:And the LFX training guy was like, hey, this girl puts on this event.
Speaker C:It's a women's one day event.
Speaker C:And you can go and try all these different firearms.
Speaker C:I'm like, yes, I am going there.
Speaker C:So I show up, I know no one, I'm like, I'm brand new to all of this and I got to try all of these different firearms.
Speaker C:And I realized that there were women all already doing this.
Speaker C:Like they had already been on the journey to explore firearms believed in Them and I'm like, I have found my tribe.
Speaker C:This is incredible.
Speaker C:There are already women doing this.
Speaker C:I'm so excited.
Speaker C:And so that was a great way to literally put hands on firearms, see what it's like, get over the fear, get over the panic.
Speaker C:And then it just comes down to like, you know, seeing what fits on your body, seeing what you like, what you're comfortable with and doing it.
Speaker C:So I feel like sometimes at the gun counter you get a little, a little push.
Speaker C:But I don't know, I just wanted to try as many as I could and I wanted something that had a lot of support for aftermarket things, holsters, because I wanted to try a lot of different things.
Speaker C:So yeah, ultimately I went with the sig365holosun407 red dot because I wanted a little extra something.
Speaker C:So yeah, it was a journey.
Speaker C:I feel like there's so much involved in like, hey, I'm not anti gun, maybe I'll get a gun.
Speaker C:But there's so much, you know, involved up to carrying that it is a little overwhelming.
Speaker C:But you just try something and see how it goes.
Speaker B:This event happened, you went through everything.
Speaker B:What's it like being welcomed into a community by a group of people?
Speaker B:I mean a lot of people, their journey is on their own or they've got maybe they're just starting off in this process and you were able to find a group of like minded individuals who could help you and coach you and mentor you through this process.
Speaker B:What was that like?
Speaker C:The thing that I found so surprising was that the two a community is so welcoming.
Speaker C:They are just come and be a part.
Speaker C:And I'm like, I don't know anything.
Speaker C:And they're like, that's okay.
Speaker C:And you know, I think that the basics are just the foundation.
Speaker C:So you can't hear them too many times.
Speaker C:You can't like know or see the firearm safety rules too many times.
Speaker C:And I think the, the main thing was that everyone was so concerned about safety no matter where we, I, we went to an IDPA match just to see it with our kids and you know, everybody's talking about they don't know.
Speaker C:You know, we walk up and they don't know maybe what we know about firearms.
Speaker C:Everybody's kind of talking about the safety things and I think that that's maybe one thing that if you are anti gun or on the fence, like the thing that I would want people to know is that the community is so concerned with safety, infinitely concerned with safety, double triple checking chamber rounds and magazines.
Speaker C:So I just was so pleasantly surprised to know that people had gone before and women were already talking about their clothing and how you conceal best.
Speaker C:And there were already women doing this.
Speaker C:So they are just so welcoming.
Speaker C:And that was reassuring and so exciting.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the big thing that a lot of people don't understand is how welcoming this community can be.
Speaker B:We want everybody to join our tribe and be part of our community.
Speaker B:And a lot of people think that the misconception of firearms owners is that we're grumpy old people that just go, eh, you know, you didn't get this, so you.
Speaker B:We don't want you here.
Speaker B:But we are very like, welcoming and we want people to try and learn and pass on the history and traditions of the 2A.
Speaker B:And it's the safety thing is really huge.
Speaker B:Gun people are probably some of the safest people out there.
Speaker B:I mean, even from my experience, we go to a ton of range days.
Speaker B:Even at range days, people will walk up to you and hey, here's the gun.
Speaker B:It's already loaded.
Speaker B:Here's the safety.
Speaker B:How to turn off the safety.
Speaker B:Everything's pointed in a safe direction.
Speaker B:And then as they realize that your knowledge base is a little bit higher, then they're like, okay, go ahead and here's the magazine.
Speaker B:Go ahead and do go have at it.
Speaker B:And I think that's a testament to our group of people because we are very cognizant of the potential dangers that could happen.
Speaker B:But we put all these safeties in place so that way nobody gets hurt.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's like building a level of trust with everyone and it's incredible.
Speaker A:So obviously you get into firearms.
Speaker A:Does your husband join you on this journey?
Speaker A:How has been the educational aspects of trickle down to the rest of your family?
Speaker A:You obviously have children in the home.
Speaker A:What is that kind of been been like?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C: me to get my carry permit in: Speaker C:And so after the school shooting, I like printed out the firearms and we have them on our refrigerator.
Speaker C:And my kids have seen this journey and are intrigued.
Speaker C:And so I've been trying to tell them as much as I know and can share with them.
Speaker C:And it's really interesting to have the conversations with them, like, why do you care?
Speaker C:Why is that important?
Speaker C:And so I feel like just kind of guiding them along the way has been a really cool process.
Speaker C:Um, they have shot some airsoft guns off our back deck.
Speaker C:Trying to get them involved but not push it too hard.
Speaker C:But my husband is super supportive while I like, did something on his bucket list.
Speaker C:Like, going to shot Show.
Speaker C:And so I know he could nerd out with all of the manufacturers about the minutiae of their firearms.
Speaker C:And I'm like, that's not my area of expertise yet.
Speaker C:But, yeah, he's been incredibly supportive, and, yeah, it's been cool to bring our kids along with.
Speaker B:What was your first shot show like?
Speaker C:Oh, my gosh, that was incredible.
Speaker C:So how I ended up there is that Kenzie the Gals Day lady posts on her Instagram and says, does anybody in East Tennessee have any photo or video experience?
Speaker C:Me.
Speaker C:Pick me.
Speaker C:You know, So I, you know, she responds back later and says, like, so what, you know, what equipment do you have?
Speaker C:What software do you use?
Speaker C:What is your timeline like for getting back?
Speaker C:And I'm like, well, you know, I don't know the answers to those questions yet.
Speaker C:But, you know, I kind of just leveled with her.
Speaker C:I don't have any equipment.
Speaker C:I have very little experience.
Speaker C:I've never edited a video, but I have an eye for it, and I want to learn.
Speaker C:Like, I've been looking for jobs in the firearm industry to.
Speaker C:To learn.
Speaker C:I need to learn all I can.
Speaker C:So, you know, if you are willing to teach me, you know, I'm willing to learn.
Speaker C:And she says, okay, let's go.
Speaker C:Okay, this is great.
Speaker C:So, you know, we.
Speaker C:We start working together, and she somehow doesn't fire me.
Speaker C:And then she says, you know, if you get really into this, you should come to shot show with me.
Speaker C:And I'm like, okay, let's go.
Speaker C:So, you know, we.
Speaker C:I am, you know, mom, wife, like, not a firearms girl.
Speaker C:And I'm like, I'm going to Las Vegas for a week, and I'm gonna be in this massive firearms trade show.
Speaker C:Like, this is outside my comfort zone, but, like, let's go.
Speaker C:So, you know, we get there, and it was just incredible to see all of the different parts of the industry representing instructing people about their products, innovations, what they're coming out with.
Speaker C:It was awesome.
Speaker C:And so, you know, not being a gun nerd, I didn't know a lot.
Speaker C:But, you know, everybody is, like, so excited to teach about their products.
Speaker C:And so I learned a whole lot.
Speaker C:That was a really cool experience.
Speaker C:All of the people were amazing.
Speaker C:I learned a lot.
Speaker C:So it was just confirmation that people in the gun industry are, like, pretty cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I remember my first shot show.
Speaker B:And at first you walk in there and you're like, wow, this is cool.
Speaker B:I'm a little overwhelmed right now, because if you've never been to shot show, Your whole goal in life is to go to shot show.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:And then you go to shot show.
Speaker B:And your first one, you're like, wow.
Speaker B:And this is amazing.
Speaker B:And then you go to your next one.
Speaker B:And every year it's always, wow, this is amazing.
Speaker B:Now I gotta run around like 25 miles.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Now my feet hurt instantly.
Speaker B:And as you go.
Speaker B:But that's the thing about the trade shows is you go to them, you're a little overwhelmed at first.
Speaker B:I've seen people be so overwhelmed.
Speaker B:I've seen people crawl up into corners because they're just.
Speaker B:There's so much going on.
Speaker B:And not to say that the.
Speaker B:It's just a lot at once.
Speaker B:You're taking it.
Speaker B:It's all a bunch of visual stimulation and noises and people and you're like, wow.
Speaker A:And level and buildings.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Next year, Kaylee's planning the map.
Speaker B:I am bad at planning.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You need a map to get around.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:We learned something very important.
Speaker A:John is not your directions guy.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:He's very good at many other things.
Speaker A:Maybe he is not your navigator.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, yeah.
Speaker C:You know, your strength.
Speaker B:I'm really good at getting meetings on the book.
Speaker B:I'm really bad at figuring out where the beatings are at and going, okay, well, we shouldn't take the meeting in and the main floor on the front of the main floor and then have to walk all the way back to the Caesars.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Ten minutes.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:You need a gps.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah, I learned that.
Speaker B:We learned that.
Speaker B:She learned that very quickly.
Speaker B:And that was kind of my fault.
Speaker B:I was, like, meeting.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And she's like, why are we running back and forth so many times?
Speaker A:That is not how I have ever done that.
Speaker A:But okay.
Speaker A:It's good.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was, you know, I, I.
Speaker A:Will, I will come in.
Speaker A:John, like, for all of the, The.
Speaker A:The crap that we give him and, and we, we, like, poke at each other a lot.
Speaker A:Like, we're.
Speaker A:We spend a lot of time working together as a department and just as an organization.
Speaker A:And so you kind of, you know, you poke fun.
Speaker A:You have, you have your.
Speaker A:Had it not been for him, like, actually booking meetings and, like, being in that mind space.
Speaker A:For me, this last year, we would have not had a full roster of meetings.
Speaker A:My life had been really crazy for the last couple years.
Speaker A:I had twins with heart conditions, and so I, I was not out of the fight or flight flight mode yet, but we were home and everything had kind of settled out by the time shot show had happened.
Speaker A:But you're booking shot show meetings in like June, July, August.
Speaker A:And so I was very thankful.
Speaker A:But then I got there and I was like, well, what are you?
Speaker A:You are not a type a person, my dude.
Speaker B:Well, the funny part about shot show and as you as you'll learn as you grow in this industry and you start making friends or more friends and building the community, it's really funny because we would walk and we turn a corner and somebody would say hi to me.
Speaker B:And we turn another corner and somebody say hi.
Speaker B:And Kaylee just started looking at me and making fun of me.
Speaker B:She goes, you know everybody.
Speaker B:I'm like, well, I've been doing this for a long time.
Speaker B:But also like, but that's just the nature of this industry and this community is that you meet friends at trade shows and that's probably the one time a year you get to see everybody or you get to see them twice a year or once a year.
Speaker B:And you normally talk.
Speaker B:And we've talked about this before, where you talk online or you talk on the phone or you text back and forth, but when you go to shot show or an industry event, it's like you've never skipped a beat.
Speaker B:It's like you've been friends for 10 years and.
Speaker B:And it's just funny because as we turn a corner, somebody would like, say hi or we turn another corner and somebody would say hi.
Speaker B:And she's like, you know, too many people.
Speaker B:Why are all these people saying hi to you?
Speaker B:And I'm like, it's just as you grow in this and I encourage anybody to really deep dive into this industry and grow, you just become friends with so many people.
Speaker B:And we've talked, we barely talked Dutch on this, but the firearms industry, there's a lot of movement.
Speaker B:A lot of people will be at one company.
Speaker B:And then by shot show, you pull up your map or you start reaching out to people and you find out they're at another company or you're learning that they're in another company.
Speaker B:And that gives you a lot of opportunities because they're your friends.
Speaker B:But hey, you might lose an opportunity with company A, but now you have an opportunity with company B.
Speaker B:And now you're building relationships with new companies every year.
Speaker B:And, and the companies even, like you said, they want to tell you about their product.
Speaker B:They want to talk, they want to sit there, they want you to listen.
Speaker B:And that is one of the cool parts about this industry.
Speaker B:And you talked about how you were looking for a job in this industry.
Speaker B:What was that experience like?
Speaker B:Because it can be a Daunting task because this is a, it looks from the outside a very large industry, but it's very, very small.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker C:Yeah, I found that it was small and close knit in random ways and I, I found I wanted to connect as many people as I could just to, I don't know, have more of a network.
Speaker C:I feel like there were a lot of instructors kind of on their own and I, you know, went to gals and found all these women.
Speaker C:I'm like, hey, we need to band together.
Speaker C:And I don't know, I think that I needed something with creativity, just being like an artist.
Speaker C:And so I didn't necessarily want to work in an indoor range.
Speaker C:I didn't necessarily want to be behind a desk trying to sell firearms.
Speaker C:So with Kenzie and photography and videography and firearms, it was like a beautiful melding of skills.
Speaker C:But yeah, everybody kind of has their, like each instructor has their own kind of flavor, but there's this baseline of, hey, we want to protect our rights.
Speaker C:We are Pro2A.
Speaker C:And all of the details and differences related to that are like just kind of fun talking points.
Speaker C:But like we, we are all one.
Speaker C:And so how are, what are you doing in the industry?
Speaker C:Like, what are you doing and how can we join with you?
Speaker B:It's funny that you said that there's different levels to this industry.
Speaker B:It really is.
Speaker B:And you've got instructors, then you have brick and mortar stores, then you have gun ranges and brick and mortar stores, then you have online retailers and then content creators and writers and bloggers.
Speaker B:And everybody's kind of, there's kind of different levels and people are kind of in their own groups or they've got their own flavor of things, like you said.
Speaker B:But then you go shot and everybody's like big melting pot.
Speaker B:And that's where you start.
Speaker B:There's this.
Speaker B:Did you get a chance to go to the infamous Circle Bar?
Speaker C:Oh, yes.
Speaker B:So there is a, a bar at the Venetian.
Speaker B:We, as the industry, we call it the Circle Bar.
Speaker B:And a lot of people, I've had experience with bosses going, why do you go to the Circle Bar?
Speaker B:It's silly.
Speaker B:Nothing.
Speaker B:A lot of business gets done around that silly little bar in the middle of the Venetian floor.
Speaker B:And a lot of people, as it's a gathering point and a lot of people gather there and we come together and that's where a lot of good networking and connections happen, as silly as it sounds.
Speaker B:But we're all there together and we're, you know, you're walking around the show, you, it's, it's big.
Speaker B:You massive, you can't hit everybody, but you may run into them in a hallway or the circle bar.
Speaker B:You can start a conversation.
Speaker B:And we touched on this previously.
Speaker B:But a lot of things in the firearms industry, I think the firearms industry is the only industry left that a lot of things get done by a handshake and a lot of things gets done by just talking.
Speaker B:And it's sad to say that has kind of gone away from under, under industries.
Speaker B:But with us, because we're so close knit is like, hey, I really love your product.
Speaker B:Let's do something.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, here's my card.
Speaker B:Let's do this.
Speaker B:I think we can do X, Y and Z.
Speaker B:Call me two weeks after shot show.
Speaker B:Always two weeks because we all have to recover.
Speaker B:And then you shake hands and then business gets done.
Speaker B:And it's crazy to think that something as simple as a handshake still gets business done in our industry.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think it kind of goes back to the trust and like, if you believe that the second amendment is good or worth it, there's like a fundamental commonality and then you get to explore everything on top of that that you differ in, but it's like a touch point and you're like kind of immediately friends and then you get to know each other at shot show and keep in touch throughout the year.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:One of the things that I love to see is people from different walks of life join the firearms industry because I do believe that it's important that the industry reflect the community at large.
Speaker A:And you know, not everyone grows up around firearms.
Speaker A:Not everyone has the opportunity to spend thousands of dollars on training.
Speaker A:Not everyone lives in a populated enough area to support, you know, gun stores and ranges that have, you know, a huge demo area or that, that have a ton of options and that's okay.
Speaker A:And I love when new people come into the industry that, that don't have, you know, 10, 20 years of experience that, you know, maybe have a different view viewpoint on things because once you get in, you're able to help us reach new demographics and, and meet needs of the firearms industry that sometimes can get overlooked.
Speaker A:I mean we, we all, we talk about, you know, the, the idea that the industry for a while had the, the concept of shrink it and pink it in order to reach women.
Speaker A:That's changing because of the amount of women in the industry that are able to advocate for what it is that women are really looking for.
Speaker A:And companies are listening to that feedback and providing some fantastic innovations in the space to meet those needs.
Speaker A:You Know, you have companies like EAA and the Tip Up.
Speaker A:I mean, that's just a fantastic option if you are, you know, someone with arthritis or if it's hard for you to, to maybe use other, other firearms.
Speaker A:You know, like, there are, there are options available and people are willing to design those options, even if it just fits a small niche to fit the needs of the firearms community.
Speaker A:And then the, the flip side of that is when people's needs are met, it's easier to have that conversation of, you need to get armed, you need to protect yourself, you need to be your own first responder, you need to advocate for the Second Amendment.
Speaker A:You need to take that, that level of personal responsibility that you feel to own a firearm is the same level of personal responsibility you need to feel to get training and to advocate for the use of those firearms.
Speaker A:And so it's all a journey, it's all a progression, but one area feeds the next.
Speaker A:And you know, I love seeing all of the new gun owners that we've been seeing from the COVID era and beyond.
Speaker A: se the numbers are, well, pre: Speaker A:Those are real problems in the industry.
Speaker A:But at least people are still purchasing guns and they're advocating for their rights in a way that we've never seen before.
Speaker A:And I think that's going to continue to grow and there'll be other spikes.
Speaker A:I don't think any of us are advocating for another pandemic to boost sales.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like no one, no one wants that.
Speaker A:But it's, it's important that we advocate for our rights, that we're seeing the push towards constitutional carry and we're, we're adding more and more and more states to that list.
Speaker A:And there are work to be done in all of those states, including this one.
Speaker A:But it's important that we start practicing what we preach and not divorcing the politics from the Second Amendment.
Speaker A:I don't want to say it like that, not divorce the politics from the firearms, because there is a real threat to the fact that politicians want to limit the size of the magazine.
Speaker A:They want to limit your options, your availability, I mean, down to what is allowed to be imported.
Speaker A:They are controlling what you have the ability to defend yourself with.
Speaker A:And it isn't because one gun is more dangerous than the other.
Speaker A:It isn't that adding a pistol brace somehow makes a firearm more dangerous.
Speaker A:It's not those things it is not there.
Speaker A:The argument that it's about safety, you know, is.
Speaker A:Is an inch deep and a mile wide.
Speaker A:It's a good talking point, but it's not reality.
Speaker A:And it is an infringement on a natural right that is constitutionally protected.
Speaker A:And so it's important that we advocate not only for good training, but we advocate for.
Speaker A:For a restoration of the second amendment right in general.
Speaker B:I couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:Well said.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I think not coming from the firearms industry and coming from a.
Speaker C:Even a friend group and a social group that didn't talk about firearms, maybe was anti firearms, I think it gives.
Speaker C:I just approach it with reverence because I think the conversation is so important and that, you know, if you are anti gun, it's like this otherworldly, very polarizing subject that only gets talked about and publicized as, like, you're a crazy gun person.
Speaker C:And so that's why I think the conversation is so important and I trying to, I don't know, talk to other moms, just normal women, about why it might be important to carry a firearm.
Speaker C:Like, I think the.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:Your body can't go where your mind has not gone.
Speaker C:Like, I think that there is so much emotion with firearms and especially maybe with moms or women.
Speaker C:And so if you can just do a thought experiment about what you would do in the safety of your own home, what would you do if someone came to do you grave harm, like, or your kid, like, you are safe, but go there in your mind, what would you do?
Speaker C:And so I think that that is a bridge for people who are maybe not gun people to say, I don't know what I would do.
Speaker C:Well, here is an option.
Speaker C:Instruct yourself, carry a firearm.
Speaker C:Like it's an equalizer.
Speaker C:It makes you as powerful as the bad guy.
Speaker C:Like, there is nothing else.
Speaker C:I mean, maybe years of jiu jitsu, I don't know.
Speaker C:Like, I don't want to be as close to the bad guy with a knife.
Speaker C:Like, I want space, and firearms are an equalizer.
Speaker C:And so I think that that is just an important thing.
Speaker C:I think that people who are maybe not firearms people don't let themselves go there mentally to say, what would I do?
Speaker C:And so the conversation, I think, is so important.
Speaker C:And I love just trying to gently bring up the subject so that I don't turn people off, but I just think it's.
Speaker C:I just think the conversation is so important.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:And the issue that I see often is the media has done such a good job of equalizing the gun owner and the Criminal as one.
Speaker A:When the criminals are criminals because they break the law, because they intend harm, because you know they're not going to their local gun store and buying and purchasing a firearm, you know, they, they are in and of themselves not law abiding.
Speaker A:They are in and of themselves malicious.
Speaker A:And for the media to mischaracterize gun owners and try to say, well it's the gun that's bad, it's the tool that's bad.
Speaker A:You don't have a right to a firearm of today's capacity or a military grade weapon.
Speaker A:You need to have a musket.
Speaker A:It's just, it's, it's horrible how they've shaped the narrative because I, I really do believe that most people that are anti gunners, if they actually sat down and thought about it, they would see how misleaded they have been by a mainstream media pushing an agenda.
Speaker A:Because they probably know more gun owners than they realize.
Speaker A:They probably know significantly more gun owners than they realize.
Speaker A:They're probably beside them in everyday life.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And have no concept.
Speaker A:I think everyone thinks we walk around in tactical pants and like you know, we've got nods on 247 and we're just like ready to, you know, ready for combat at any given moment.
Speaker A:And like that's, that is a Persona that is, is not accurate.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I feel called out right now.
Speaker A:I have never seen you in tactical fans.
Speaker B:I had to wear tactical when I worked at the gun range.
Speaker B:That was part of our uniform.
Speaker B:Was wearing tactical pants.
Speaker B:And after I left I'm like, I'm never wearing tactical pants again.
Speaker B:Like I feel so weird walking around in tactical pants.
Speaker B:It's not even funny.
Speaker C:It's funny you mentioned criminals because Kenzie and I were talking about the fact that I know in the wake of the Covenant School shooting there has been the anti gun push and Kenzie was like the, there are no loopholes in the law.
Speaker C:Like the loopholes are the criminals.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And there, there's just so much emotion and all the gun laws sound good I guess as action but they are tools and their, their power.
Speaker C:Like whenever you hear about a new gun law, just like replace firearm with power.
Speaker C:Like they're trying to take away our power.
Speaker A:One of the things that's so frustrating is the fact that language is so important.
Speaker A:And you know we, we talk about mainstream media, we talk about all of these things.
Speaker A:If you were to go and poll, let's say 75% of America, we could even go as far as 100% and you and say would you want your representative to vote for something called the Safer Community Act.
Speaker A:What logical person reading the title would be like, no, I want my community less safe.
Speaker A:But that's exactly what the gun control measures in that law do.
Speaker A:They make us less safe.
Speaker A:But they're so cunning with their language and they're so decisive with what they do and what they say that if you're just reading a headline, you could be very upset with your representative for not voting for something, but in reality it's actually hurting your right.
Speaker A:And you know, we, we see this, you know, multiple times in multiple different ways.
Speaker A:You know, you, you hear the term, you know, red flag law and you're like, okay, well that can make rational sense, but that is a made up term.
Speaker A:It's a gun confiscation order.
Speaker A:It's not only dealing with your second amendment right, it's dealing with your fourth amendment right.
Speaker A:But if you don't know that or if you just listen to, to the.
Speaker C:Wording, it sounds good.
Speaker A:It sounds good.
Speaker A:And it's hard to blame someone who is working a full time job, who has a family, who has other things going on for not knowing every single thing and every single law and every single wordsmith opportunity that they create because it's a full time job.
Speaker A:I work in it.
Speaker A:And you can ask me what's going on in a state and I'm like, I'll get back to you.
Speaker A:Because it is impossible for one person to have that much knowledge at one given time.
Speaker A:Because it's, you know, we have 50 states, all with their own state legislature going on.
Speaker A:You have the federal government, you have what's going on in the courts at one given time.
Speaker A:All of them can be doing something for, for better or for worse.
Speaker A:And so I always, I feel bad because sometimes I think people are disappointed when they're like, hey, you know, what are you guys doing in Michigan?
Speaker A:And I'm like, regarding what?
Speaker C:Which one?
Speaker A:Yes, because like there's nine bills just there.
Speaker A:And so like, I'm going to need some specifics.
Speaker A:Are we talking like executive action?
Speaker A:Are we talking lawsuits?
Speaker A:Are we talking what's in the House?
Speaker A:Are we talking what's in the Senate?
Speaker C:Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker A:Can you clarify?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I never want them to be disappointed with my knowledge base.
Speaker A:But I, I promise I can find the answer.
Speaker A:I'll, I'll text our, our regional rep. And I'm like, hey, what's going on in Michigan?
Speaker A:And he'll probably ask the same question with which one?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's also confusing but you know, if you have a question, like write in if you have a question.
Speaker A:You know, DM us.
Speaker A:Like, we have people that know the answer.
Speaker A:I just might not be the person with, I'm not God and I'm also not Google.
Speaker A:I will fail you.
Speaker B:Wait, what?
Speaker B:It's funny, you know, because we get this all the time as media faces of goa.
Speaker B:I get messages all the time.
Speaker B:Hey, what's going on in the state?
Speaker B:Hold on, let me text our state and local fair director, see if he knows who's.
Speaker B:Chris, you're amazing.
Speaker B:Thank you, Chris.
Speaker B:And then as you go on, you're just like, okay, wait, okay, what about this one?
Speaker B:What about that one?
Speaker B:And it's just hard to keep, like Kaylee said, it's hard to keep a thought on this.
Speaker B:I want to touch on, on Kaylee's point.
Speaker B:You know, people say that the firearms industry is all tactical pants and the narrative is always that we're old white people, right?
Speaker B:But the demographic in the last 10 years has changed.
Speaker B:We have more women in the industry, we have more minorities in the industry, we have more, more communities.
Speaker B:We saw in Hartford, Connecticut communities getting together and becoming armed and cleaning up the city.
Speaker B:And I'd love seeing that.
Speaker B:A lot of people now have realized that taking your safety into your own hands or being part of this community is just widespread and going above the narrative that the media is pushing and seeing through the anti gunners lobbying efforts to make it the demonizing the gun and not the person who uses it illegally.
Speaker B:The funniest thing I've ever seen, and this is, it's funny because I was living in the city at the point is the Columbus NBC affiliate was like, this is how powerful an AR15 is.
Speaker B:And they shoot at a watermelon with a shotgun.
Speaker B:Clearly don't know what an AR15 is.
Speaker B:But they put this narrative out because if anybody knows anything about shotguns, they can be devastating to a soft target.
Speaker B:And it gives them that narrative, like, look at how this watermelon explodes when it hits with an AR15.
Speaker B:For the people that are staunchly anti gun and don't know any better, that looks scary.
Speaker B:But to all of us in the two way community, we're like, that is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker B:Why would you do this?
Speaker B:And that's the issue is how do we as a community educate and teach people that the misinformation that's coming out is not true and that there are tons of gun laws on the books already that are not being followed by criminals?
Speaker B:Criminals will do what criminals want to do and they will find a gun in any way possible.
Speaker B:And it is us as the law.
Speaker B:Abu citizens, as we've alluded to, that are affected by criminals intentions.
Speaker B:I mean, we've seen in Australia that they've done a massive gun ban and everybody knows about how strict is, but there was just a knife attack.
Speaker B:A person who has ill intent is going to carry out an act in any way possible.
Speaker B:And more laws on the books is not going to fix that.
Speaker A:And more to your point, more gun laws on the books are also going to hurt, hurt people and it's going to make our communities less safe.
Speaker A:You know, mass murders, where do most mass murders take place?
Speaker A:In soft targets.
Speaker A:And the reality is so different from the messaging that's being put out.
Speaker A:And I want nothing more than to be able to protect my kids.
Speaker A:Don't come after them like they're, they're off limits.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And that's how every American feels.
Speaker A:That's how every parent feels.
Speaker A:And so when you're sending kids into a soft target that you know is a soft target, it hurts your soul a little bit because you're looking statistically at this and you're like, this isn't right.
Speaker A:This isn't right.
Speaker A:Politicians shouldn't have more security than our children.
Speaker C:How are our politicians protected?
Speaker C:How are the celebrities protected?
Speaker C:Why aren't our children protected?
Speaker C:They're so vulnerable.
Speaker B:Well, you brought up a great point.
Speaker B:We've seen in the past that when these events happen, the people who are carrying out these ill intent do a lot of research on their, their targets.
Speaker B:And there has been times where even in their manifest.
Speaker B:Well, I'm not doing that.
Speaker B:There's too much armed security or there's this, you know, that speaks volumes of why are we not protecting our children?
Speaker B:Why are we not protecting our future?
Speaker B:And I applaud the state of Tennessee as of earlier this week, it is now on Governor Lee's desk that they are offering to arm the teachers and give them, you know, the necessary tools to not be a soft target anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's, it's, it's making forward progress.
Speaker A:You know, no bill's perfect, no state is perfect.
Speaker A:But it is doing the next right thing.
Speaker A:It is making sure that we are restoring our second amendment right.
Speaker A:It's making sure that we are moving in the right direction.
Speaker A:Because, you know, the thing that most people overlook is that, you know, we talk about the second amendment and those who are anti gun and those who are pro gun, regardless of where you are on that spectrum.
Speaker A:You have a second amendment right.
Speaker A:You have the right to protect and defend yourself.
Speaker A:It is a right that is constantly reaffirmed and it's not granted by the government.
Speaker A:And so even if you don't realize that you're losing it, you're losing it.
Speaker A:And it isn't a, it isn't an us against them.
Speaker A:It is a protection of a natural right.
Speaker A:Well, wow, that got really heavy towards the end, but it was so great having this conversation with you.
Speaker A:Feel free to to plug social media and and where people can find you.
Speaker C:Thank you guys so much for having me.
Speaker C:This has been great.
Speaker C:I love the conversation and would love to keep it going.
Speaker C:I have a tiny Instagram following of my platform Kelly Carries and I would love to talk with anybody about how women can arm themselves, how to get involved.
Speaker C:I love just starting the conversation.
Speaker C:So thank you guys for having me.
Speaker B:Thank you for being here guys.
Speaker B:Make sure to like share and subscribe.
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