In this episode of The Living Conversation, we sit down with Kristan Swan—business coach, small-group facilitator, and creator of the “spiritual autobiography” experience—to talk about how storytelling can become a practical spiritual path.

Kristan describes her approach as non-denominational: an exploration of what’s bigger than us, whether that shows up through religion, nature, or the cosmos. We talk about timed writing as a way to “clear the decks,” how people often love the idea of writing but struggle with the doing, and why handwriting (devices left at the door) can create a different kind of quiet.

Kristan also shares an adult turning point: choosing to be baptized in the Episcopal Church, not as a performance of belief but as a body-level encounter with the message “you are whole as you are.” From there we explore how a sense of self evolves—through the stories we tell ourselves, the stories we inherit, and the stories we dare to share.

Guest: Kristan Swan

Website: KristinSwan.com

I'm Anthony Wright and I am your co host today on the Living Conversation with Adam Dietz.

Thanks for joining the conversation.

We're here with our guest Kristen Swan.

And welcome Kristen, thank you so much.

I am delighted to be here.

I'm looking forward to our conversation.

And you are a business coach but you also, I saw on your website you work with spiritual autobiographies.

So just so I can get an understanding and our audience can.

What's the basis of your, of your spiritual orientation and how do you guide people?

Yeah, so my primary work these days is really in small group facilitation and also writing and providing these different experiences for people.

And, and one of the core experiences is this discovering your spiritual autobiography.

And when I am inviting people to join me, it is really a non denominational exploration of that which is bigger than ourselves.

And, and for some people it will, for some people religion and spirituality are very closely aligned.

As I say, hand in glove.

And, and I've worked with folks in that realm as well as other people who, nature is their, their place where they find a spiritual connection and, or space.

You know, kind of more science minded folks who look at the cosmos and, and for myself really it is a sense of that there is that which is bigger than just me right now right here.

This reminds me of a story.

There was an evangelical, evangelical Christian acquaintance of mine who came to me and said Anthony, you're so spiritual.

How can you be so spiritual and not be Christian?

And I said well I study Taoism and Buddhism.

And he said well tell me about Buddhism.

And, and 10.

And so there is a text in 10 in 10 Buddhism called the Diamond Sutra.

And it's also in, in the main of Buddhism.

And in the text the Buddha is sitting with his disciples and his discipleship says, oh Lord Buddha, your merit is greater than all the numerous grains of sand in the Ganges.

And Buddha says just so subhuti.

But that's only a way of talking about it.

So when I came back to my acquaintance I said I had a mind worm for him.

Now do you know what I mean?

Have.

You know what I mean by an earworm, right?

Yes.

Okay, so I had a mind worm for him, right?

And the mind worm was, if you can think of it, it's already too small.

And the more he thought about that, the more he gets getting thrown out because when we think about stuff we put it into a concept box and I think that's what you're talking.

And he came back to me and he said he got to Know God better because he quite trying to put God into a box.

Yeah.

So what is your process of, of facilitating people into their spiritual journey?

It is a.

Depending on the format.

So I teach both an eight week version which is also.

There's a significant community building element to that eight weeks when you, you spend time with each other doing this.

And there is also, because not everyone can do eight weeks, there is a more intensive retreat version.

Both versions are centered on storytelling.

I mean that is our, that's, that's our main modality.

And so a lot of there's different prompts and it is at this moment, it is writing based.

I, I do see the future of the spiritual autobiography as incorporating other mediums, but in this moment it is all about.

There are prompts that you are asked to reflect on, write and share in the group.

And these are in person.

This is that part of what I feel like is so important and really part of my inspiration to create this, you know, this entity is to have people talking about things that they normally don't talk about face to face in real life.

Are these timed writing exercises?

Yes, they are timed writing exercises.

There is homework that's given.

So then for the homework there's, you know, people can spend as much as, or little time.

I do give people parameters around kind of word count only because.

Not that.

And I also kind of give the caveat.

I'm like if you are really loving this prompt, you know, go with it.

Just knowing that for the purposes of when we come back in that collective space, in order to give everyone the appropriate amount of time to share that it's going to need to be around, you know, whatever the word count is that I've, I've, I've determined.

But I, the, the prompts are everything from, you know, where I'm asking people to reflect at a time when they, they found themselves at a, a inflection point and it could be, you know, a kind of a crossroads of sorts.

Right.

And because I think that again, as you were noting, I really resonate with what you mentioned about how limiting our thinking is.

Right.

Or the fact that once we think it, it is already it's become limited.

And so for me in my life, those, those turning points, those crossroads are those moments where the unknown often has to be welcomed, embraced.

And for me, again, looking back at those moments that often were uncomfortable, to put it mildly.

And to see the result of the journey, as I said, for me is a great way to remind myself again of that realm of possibility that is part of the spirituality that I subscribe to.

Yeah.

Are you familiar with the work of Peter Elbow?

I'm not.

He is a writing coach and he does timed writing exercises for people getting into writing.

He's got several books on how to become a good writer.

But one of the things about doing timed writing, so just write continuously longhand for five minutes and it sort of clears the decks.

Is that what you find to be true and those exercises?

Yes.

And one of the things that we always, besides once, once people gather, we, you know, again, whether it's in our, our weekly classes or in a retreat setting, you know, in between breaks or something, we gather, we breathe and there's always a kind of a, I call it an activator prompt.

And it's exactly that.

Where it is a timed writing prompted.

It's, as you've indicated, it's less about the work product as it is about the exercise itself of kind of getting outside of your head.

And it will.

Getting kind of back to yourself, but also getting outside of your head, if that makes sense.

And.

Well, the other thing that I'll just say that's kind of funny is what I've observed is people love the idea of writing.

The actual writing itself can prove to be more challenging than they think it's going to be.

I could see that.

I could see that.

Have you had an experience like this, Adam?

Experience?

That's wild that you say that.

I did have an experience like this when I was reading Huenang in studying with Dr. Wu about Huenang, there's a moment, mutual mentor.

Yes, yes.

There's a moment in this classic, one of the first classic books of Zen Buddhism, there's a moment when the, the, all the monks are trying to prove their enlightenment, right?

And they write a poem on the wall.

And so this is writing, right?

They write a poem on the wall to confirm their enlightenment.

And when I was studying with this very carefully with Dr. Yi Wu from Institute of Integral Studies, formerly, he went to take a break to go use a restroom, something like that.

And I had a moment where I was going to write a poem of

my own

and I was writing about, okay, very in the moment, very mindful, oh, my hand is moving to write.

And in reality there's no pen or paper or that kind of thing.

So I, I do have an experience.

That's a very interesting question that you had there, Anthony, But I am curious, Kristen, with all of our guests you talked earlier about, people have these different breakthrough type of moments.

And I think Anthony have talked and shared in the past, about some of the moments we've had in that regard.

I'm curious if you would have any of your earliest moments when you first felt like you were going onto a spiritual path, so to speak.

I know there's some moments, let's say, like your first adult experience because I feel like as children we're exposed to it in different ways.

But where was your first conscious moment where you said, I am curious about this, this path?

Yeah, I, you know, it's interesting because as I'm going to talk about an adult moment, but as a child, despite the fact, you know, I had a very kind of a mishmash of religious upbringing as a child and nothing extremely formal at all.

And I will say what's, what is interesting is a very spiritual moment for me was choosing to become baptized as an adult in the Episcopal Church.

Okay.

And it was, I had been volunteering for a while and I ushered and did things like that.

And I, you know, I, I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed the community of it.

I, I enjoyed the, the kind of sense of service that I grew up with a family that believed in volunteering and being of service.

So that all felt good.

But I will say that there was the time finally where I was able to be sitting in a sermon and hearing this sermon that had to do with Jesus and, and, and, and the kind of loving feeling of finally kind of at a cellular level hearing the words of, you know, that you are just fine as you are and you are whole and complete as you are and loved as you are.

And it's not about you earning your grace or, you know, and it, and it's, I am, I have kind of a complicated relationship with Jesus.

So it's, it is, it's a bit, it's actually a bit ironic.

Ironic that that's, you know, was the, the message was just really, like I said, kind of a full body resonating with me in this very, very formal setting.

Which is just funny to me because, I mean I am, I couldn't be further from that.

Right.

In terms of my day to day.

Well, but it's a thesis.

We have to take a short break.

I'm Anthony Wright and I am your co host today on the Living Conversation with Adam Teets.

And we are talking with our guest, Kristen Swan.

And how can people contact you, Kristen?

The easiest place is my website, KristinSwan.com

and it's K-R-I-S-T a N. Yes.

S W A N. All as one word.

Yes.

Okay.

We're gonna take A short break and be right back.

So stay tuned.

I'm Anthony Wright and I am your co host today on the Living Conversation with Adam Dietz.

Welcome back.

And we are talking with our guest, Kirsten Swan.

And before the break, Kristen, you were talking about your initial experience as an adult into a spiritual modality, as being baptized into the Episcopal faith.

And certainly the baptism is more of a dying and being reborn to a new understanding.

And you had this body, you had a full body experience, is that right?

Yes, it was prior to the baptism itself.

It was what led me to feel like an adult baptism would be a good fit for me at this moment.

It was sitting in a Sunday service and, and being able, being receptive, I guess, or open at that moment to finally hearing and connecting with this concept of being complete and whole as I am, as we all are.

Right, right.

And is that that's part of what you want to bring to your, your clients?

Oh, very much so.

I, I, my heart always just aches when I find myself or others, you know, kind of doing this very external seeking for, you know, validation or answers.

And I'm not saying that having different life experiences, I mean, those are very enriching, however, the, the extent to which we have muted our own connection with ourselves.

Because for me, it wasn't until I got curious and took some time to know myself and, and begin to trust myself that I was then able to actually progress into more of what I would say is a more mature relationship with my spirituality

in that regard.

Let me ask a question about the sense of self.

Yeah.

Again, going back to something that our mentor worked on, I thought it was very profound because there's so many different ways to look at the self.

And I think basically one way that he, he made it very clear and interesting, I thought, was that we are almost like a series of concentric circles, that we have a psychological self, we have a physical self, and we have a spiritual self and this kind of thing.

Could you say something about, one, how your sense of self has evolved through your spirituality, and two, what you've seen from your clients in regard to their sense of self?

Well, I'll start by I love that question.

And that is so interwoven in the work that I do.

I mentioned earlier that storytelling is so foundational to the work that I do.

And in, in part, I think this can, can speak to what we're, you're asking here, which is, I think, about storytelling and just for simplification, in kind of three buckets, I think about the stories that we tell ourselves.

I think about the stories that we have inherited or that have been told to us, and then I think about those stories through that we are willing to share with others.

And I know for myself that, you know, kind of the need to pay attention to the stories that I'm telling myself first and foremost.

Right.

It's, it's.

For me, it always starts with curiosity and being willing to, to sit with those stories and say, you know, are these, are these still true?

Right.

Or, and, and even make peace with some of the stories that, that I no longer need to revisit or, or that I can, or that I can integrate in my understanding in a new way or.

Right.

As I've gotten older or I've had different life experiences, so I think that, that, that is that very kind of interior conversation.

Right.

And, and then going to that next layer or next concentric circle.

Right.

Is that what has been, what has been kind of given to me or sometimes, you know, just, you know, I, maybe I didn't necessarily want it, but it's, it's been, it's been put in there and, and again, getting curious with those stories.

So.

And then I think the last piece really speaks to.

I know, for my own evolution is those stories that I'm willing to share with others.

And, and obviously there's times when, you know, we can be more vulnerable and, you know, in times where it's.

It isn't really the time to do that.

But I just even think that again, as I kind of have navigated through these layers for myself, is coming to the place where I am 100% more comfortable with sharing from my experience.

And, you know, and, and some of the experiences are not necessarily, you know, happy stories.

And, and those are.

And that's okay.

And those are really meaningful to share.

Not because I'm looking for anyone to make me feel better.

I don't.

I'm not.

That's not what I'm asking.

But I, I think that it is a.

It's at the core of my humanity.

And living more fully into my humanity is, again, a spiritual practice for me.

Great.

Great.

And then just to follow up, have you seen any patterns?

I know you mentioned one pattern that people seem to have to have kind of a, a breakthrough like a breaking point or a, you know, literally the saying is come to Jesus moment.

Right.

Have you noticed patterns in, in your clients in that regard?

I have.

And I also have noticed I've had some people who participate who are still really not that curious about themselves.

I mean, they love Again, sometimes, you know, I mean, I've done that before where I've signed up for something and it's, you know, it sounded like it would be good for me, and.

And, you know, and I really wasn't ready to participate yet.

So I have had participants who really feel they're not that curious yet.

And yes, I think that we.

What I have seen in the workshops and classes is people sharing from these very honest moments of when.

And, you know, most of us have a few of these.

And I mean, I definitely have.

And.

And the, you know, it really is from that stripping away or that.

That brokenness that there, again, is.

A lot of times that's where there can be that openness that we can.

We can emerge, you know, even.

I'm not going to say better, because it's not about being better, but we can just emerge anew.

Yeah.

In the Taoist tradition, a sense of emptying your mind, decreasing your desire, decreasing your thought, decreasing your will.

It sounds like some of what you're talking about here.

Yeah.

Do you go into the.

Working with your clients with the structure of story?

Not so much.

Because I, you know, again, there is.

There is so much I have found there is.

A lot of people are very intimidated by the idea of writing.

And so really, I.

They are.

I know.

And it's.

I mean, if you think about.

Used to it, right?

What's that?

They're not used to it.

They may not be used to it, but they may also not realize how much they write anyways.

I mean, I always laugh, right.

Because, you know, when you think about, you know, going to school and it.

There's, you know, there's these people who are like, oh, I'm not writers.

I'm gonna go on more of maybe a stem path, or I'm gonna go on.

Or I'm more of a creative.

I'm gonna go in the.

You know, I'm gonna go in.

And then they realize all of this stuff we all need to write, whether we're writing.

If you're in the arts and you're writing grant proposals or you need to make an artist statement.

So I feel like my kind of facilitation is really about getting people just to start and not to worry about.

Don't, don't.

Don't get bogged down with, you know, spelling or grammar or even kind of thematic devices.

Let's.

Let's, you know, let's connect with yourself.

Because again, I'm.

I feel like so many people, you know, have become disconnected from themselves.

So let's.

We're using writing and the storytelling as the modality to.

To get kind of reacquainted with ourselves.

So to.

To apply another level of critique on it or instruction, I feel like might.

Might kind of get in the way of at least my purpose of, of bringing people together.

Can I.

Can I ask that?

As you're talking, as we're discussing more, I'm getting a sense of like, oh, you know, we had to write our dissertation.

I turned mine into a book.

I'm writing another book right now.

I'm writing articles.

And as you're talking and we're kind of sifting through what you're talking about, I'm like, oh man, writing really is a spiritual practice for me.

And it's like when it's one of my most connected moments besides my Tai chi practice is.

Is writing and reflecting on these things.

And then I realized, okay, the things that I've been thinking about and contemplating, mulling over processing, so to speak, to be able to really clearly put them on the page and address certain issues in a certain way is.

Is really profound for me.

As you're, as you're, as you're describing that.

Is that part of the goal of what you're working towards?

Yeah, for sure.

Well, I mean, one of my.

My kind of my gateway into a lot of my work is I have a journal that I, that I put together many, many years ago.

It is.

It was kind of a seed that came out of my business coaching.

It's called Spaghetti on the Wall.

And again, it is a.

It's recommended as a daily practice of really kind of just.

It.

It's.

It has prompts in it, so there's some structure to it.

Again, it's, It's.

I'm always about to.

I want to make things as simple and as accessible as possible.

Right.

Because it's too easy to get intimidated or to feel like, oh, it's going to take too long.

So I mean, I have this journal that it's.

The way I Recommend it is 15 to 12 minutes a day.

I mean, set a timer, do it.

The timer goes off, throw your pen against the wall and move on with your day.

But I do find that, and especially I just feel like it's so needed in this time that we're in right now where put your pen to paper.

And that's another thing is.

Right that very physical act as opposed to typing.

Oh, yeah, It's a very different thing.

It's a very different thing.

So much of.

So the in class stuff is all handwritten because we agree to leave devices at the door for the sake of the class.

And, and it's just so that, that, that quiet that happens when you are, you allow yourself and whether you, you know, you write for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 12 minutes, whatever it is, it's there is it's such a gift, I feel like that we, we can give ourselves.

We have to take a short break.

I'm Anthony Wright and I'm your host today with my co host Adam Dietz.

Thanks for joining.

We're here with our guest, Kristen Swan.

How can people contact you?

KristinSwan.com is the best place to find out all about what's going on.

And your name is K R A K R I S T A N

A N I know.

Swan.com all right.

We're going to take a short break and be right back.

So stay tuned.