Few books of the Bible speak as much about the Messiah as the book of Psalms. In this episode, we discuss what Psalms 86, 87, and 88 tell us about the Messiah’s suffering, death, and resurrection. Our guest is Robert Walter, the New York regional director for Chosen People Ministries.

Welcome to Our Hope,

a production of Chosen People Ministries.

On this podcast you will hear inspiring testimonies,

learn about Messianic apologetics and discover

God's plan for Israel and you.

Wherever you're listening, we hope you lean in,

listen closely and be blessed.

In Scripture, the shepherd is

one of the most common images of the Messiah.

In John chapter 10, Jesus told the famous story

about a shepherd with a hundred sheep.

When one of His flock was lost,

He left the ninety-nine sheep to rescue it.

Yeshua then said, “I am the good shepherd.

The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep”.

The Old Testament

also depicts the Messiah as the shepherd of Israel,

someone who will selflessly

guide the sheep, protect them, and provide for them.

One of the clearest examples of this

is found in Ezekiel 34:20-31.

Today, we have invited back

Rich Freeman who will help us discover what this passage says

about the Messiah and how that should shape our view of Yeshua

Rich Freeman is the VP and Director of Church

Ministries and Conferences for Chosen People Ministries,

and he received his

Doctor of Ministry at Gordon-Cornwell Seminary.

I now introduce the host of Our Hope Podcast, Abe Vazquez!

Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Our Hope.

I am so excited that we are here again

to continue our series on Messianic prophecies.

I'm really excited about this season.

It can certainly be very academic and can

certainly be very educational, and we hope that you learn

as much as you can from what we're talking about,

but we are trying to make it relatable as well.

And so as you listen, as you learn, we hope

that you will understand

how you can apply this

to your own life, how you can understand

the importance of Messianic prophecy.

And in really, in the context of sharing the gospel

with other people, it often is a really great tool to explain

why Jesus is who He is.

And so today we have Rich

Freeman, Dr. Rich Freeman all the way from Florida.

Rich, it's such a joy to have you once again on Our Hope

Great to be with you guys.

So give us some updates, what's been going on.

It's been a while since we've chatted with you.

We did take a long break and so tell us what's been

going on with your ministry.

Well, down here in Florida,

things are beginning to open up. We've been

starting to have our monthly fellowships meeting in person.

We have been doing them by Zoom and

a number of people really pleaded with us

to begin meeting in person again.

So we have right now two monthly fellowships, one

meeting in Boynton Beach and one meeting in Boca Raton.

Both are very Jewish areas and we have Shabbat services

during the the on Friday

one in the first Friday and one on the third Friday.

And we've been doing that now for a few months and things

seem to be calming down as far as COVID is concerned.

So we're basically seeing,

less stringent controls.

Florida is certainly not as controlled

as you guys up in New York, but nonetheless we do

take care and try to make sure we don't do anything silly.

There's still a lot of corporate cases around, and

so we have to be careful with that.

But things are opening up.

one of the things that I've been doing personally is

I just finished a book

that I've been working on for a couple of years.

Based on really kind of it's really connected to

to the pandemic in that it's

called "The Lord is my shepherd",

"Dayenu", which is the Hebrew word that means,

which means "that is enough". Abe: Yeah.

And, the subtitle to the book is "God's

GPS for finding contentment during difficult times".

And so that's been

a kind of a pet project of mine.

I've been spending a lot of time in Psalm 23 and dealing with

how do we get through difficult times?

How does the Lord help us get through difficult times?

And what does it all mean that the Lord is my shepherd?

So it kind of fits in what you're told me

we're going to be speaking about today,

so I'm looking forward to it. Abe: That's awesome.

Well, let's let's just jump right in.

So we're going to be talking about some scriptures

in the Book of Ezekiel

and a little spoiler alert,

the Book of Ezekiel was written by the Prophet Ezekiel.

So during that time, Ezekiel,

he was exiled with his people in Babylon,

and the Book of Ezekiel not only calls forth judgment

on both Israel and surrounding nations,

but it also provides a redemptive vision of the

future millennial kingdom.

Nicole, would you mind just reading Ezekiel 34:20–31?

"Therefore, thus, says the Lord God to them

'Behold, I even I will

judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep

because you push with side and with shoulder,

and thrust at all the weak with your horns

until you have scattered them abroad, therefore,

I will deliver my flock, and they will no longer be a prey;

and I will judge between one sheep and another.

Then I will set over them one shepherd, My servant David,

and he will feed them;

he will feed them himself and be their shepherd.

And I, the Lord will be their

God, and My servant, David will be Prince among them

I the Lord have spoken.

I will make a covenant of peace with them and eliminate

harmful beasts from the land so that they may live securely

in the wilderness and sleep in the woods.

I will make them and the places around My hill a blessing.

And I will cause

showers to come down

in their season; they will be showers of blessing.

Also, the tree of the field will yield its fruit

and the earth will yield its increase,

and they will be secure on their land.

Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I have broken

the bars of their yoke and have delivered them

from the hand of those who enslaved them.

They will no longer be a prey to the nations

and the beasts of the earth will not devour them;

but they will live securely and no one will make them afraid.

I will establish for them a renowned planting place,

and they will not again be victims of famine in the land,

and they will not endure the insults of the nations anymore.

Then they will know that I, the Lord their God, am with them,

and that they, the house of

Israel, are My people,' declares the Lord God.

'As for you, My sheep, the sheep of my pasture,

you are men, and I am your God,' declares the Lord God."

Thank you Nicole.

That's awesome. So

looking at this passage and hearing this passage

Rich, what is the heart of this message?

What is it saying?

Who is it addressed to and why?

Well, it's

when you look at it, the idea of of a shepherd.

Keep in mind, you know,

as we look at the context of the chapter,

the beginning of the chapter, God is judging,

pronouncing judgment against the leaders of Israel,

the shepherds of Israel,

who have led Israel to a place of unbelief,

who led Israel to a place away from their Messiah.

And then the Messiah basically

talks about judging the

the shepherd of Israel and now that the shepherds of Israel,

and now declares that there's going to be a time when He's

going to judge those in Israel.

And it really relates to a judgment that Jesus

called the judgment of the sheep and the goats, where

believers and unbelievers are going to be judged and

only believers will be allowed to come into the Kingdom of God

And it is then, as believers

come into this millennial

kingdom that all of these promises that Ezekiel wrote

2500 years ago, long before Jesus walked on the Earth,

that will deal with this issue

of the millennial kingdom and what takes place in that

millennial kingdom – Some amazing things and a chang

in the topography of the Earth.

So, Rich,

why is this passage still relevant for us today?

Well, I think, you know, especially in a time

like we're dealing with now with the COVID pandemic,

we always need something

to look forward to, something to hope for.

And for believers in Jesus, obviously, it's Jesus' return

and what takes place when Jesus returns?

Well, He's going to establish His kingdom on the Earth.

He's going to be literally and physically here,

sitting on the throne of David.

And not only that, I think the passage in

Ezekiel tells us that there's going to be a resurrected David

who's going to help Jesus administrate His kingdom.

So I personally believe that when he talks about David,

it's not just talking

about the throne of David, but it's talking about David,

the King David, who's going to be on the Earth

with Jesus, helping Him administer the kingdom

and be the righteous prince.

It's going to be an amazing time, and I get excited

just talking about it.

It's one of the things

that I enjoy teaching is Bible prophecy,

and talking about the millennial kingdom is amazing and

gives you goosebumps

because you know, when

you think about it, when you think about

all the changes in the world,

even the animal kingdom is going to change.

You know, the Bible talks about the lion lying down

with the lamb and predators

will be at peace with their prey.

And it talks about the nations not insulting Israel anymore.

And you don't have to

be a genius to see that that's happening.

Even now that Israel

is usually in the middle of some sort of attack

where they're chastised for something and the

the commonplace of anti-semitism is real.

You know, it's pretty hard to deny that.

So these changes are something that we can look forward to.

And the idea that Jesus is going to be on the Earth,

sitting on the throne of David, administrating the world,

being the King of Kings and Lord of Lords excites me to no end.

It wasn't until you just, you know, brought up the point

of David administering the kingdom with Jesus

that I realized all these characters in the Bible,

we're going to be with in this kingdom. Rich: Yeah,

it's remarkable when you think about it.

Yeah, I always wanted to sit

down with Moses and find out what was it like?

Or have a conversation with these people.

It's going to be amazing. Abe: Yeah, yeah. Rich: Yeah.

I think my only fear is somebody

is going to come up to me and he's going to say, "Hi,

my name is Nahum."

I say, "Yeah, what do you do when you were on the Earth?"

He says, "I was a writer.

So I wrote a book."

I say, "What was the name of the book?", "Nahum"

And I say, "Well, sorry, I'm not too familiar with it."

You know, those kind of things

are going to be embarrassing moments. Nicole: Yeah.

So as you're saying, King

David is going to administer alongside the Messiah.

We see in verses 23 and 24 in this prophecy

from Ezekiel, it says that David is the shepherd and prince.

But if this was written so long after King David died,

how do we know for sure that it's referring

to King David and not Jesus

who is descended from David? Rich: Right.

And and I think a lot of people

will will tell you it's really talking about Jesus

not about David.

But you know, Jesus, in more than one place in

the scriptures is called the first fruits of the dead.

So obviously, Jesus is

resurrected when He returns to Earth

and all those who follow Jesus.

And we've talked about all the Old Testament characters,

as well as the New Testament characters are also going

to be resurrected. So we're talking not about

the old days, but we're talking about a resurrected

David who's going to come and be the Shepherd of Israel,

so to speak, to help administrate Jesus' Kingdom now

And certainly since David is the one who wrote, "The

Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want."

It makes sense that he would be the shepherd to come

and take care of the flock, so to speak.

Let's talk about

a little bit more about that imagery of a shepherd.

Sure. Abe: I'm excited that you're

writing a whole book on that, but it's constantly used in bot

the Tanakh and the New Covenant.

Share a little bit about this shepherd imagery

that we always hear about.

And it's interesting because even today,

you know, let's be real,

when was the last time you met a shepherd?

It's not something you really encounter on an everyday basis.

Even though I've been to Israel

and you still see shepherds with the sheep on the lands,

and it's pretty awesome to see, by the way,

but living in New York, you're living in the United States,

you don't really see that often you don't encounter it often.

So how can we look at this

imagery and be encouraged by it?

I think one of the things that is important for us

to recognize is the intimacy between

the shepherd and the sheep.

One of my favorite pictures of Jesus is Jesus

walking with a sheep around His back,

you know, carrying the sheep on his shoulders.

And that tells us, you know, the shepherd loves His sheep

so much that He's interested in every single one.

And if He has to look for that one, as you know, that imagery

is spoken about in the New Testament,

especially where the one where

the shepherd would search after the lost sheep.

It's the picture of His care,

of His concern, and again, of that intimate relationship.

One of my favorite pictures of that is in

John where Jesus says "I'm the door".

Now in my study of Psalm 23,

one of the things that I've

found is some of the sheep folds didn't have doors.

So the shepherd at night time, after the sheep

came in to the sheep

fold, would actually lie down in the opening

to protect the sheep.

So in essence, the shepherd became the door.

And that's the picture that Jesus gives us.

So that idea of intimacy and care runs through and we could,

as the sheep look to the shepherd and

were able to deal with their

skittishness, and sheep are very skittish animals.

They always had that sense

of connection, connectedness to the shepherd,

and that gave them a sense of contentment.

And so for us, even in the most dire circumstances,

when we have the shepherd in front of us, we could deal

with. It doesn't mean the pain is going

to go away. It doesn't mean

we're not going to struggle, but

knowing that we have a shepherd who cares for us

gives us that strength to be able to deal with it.

I think that's in Philippians 4, when Paul says, "I've learne

the secret of being content."

He then goes on, says, "I can do all things through Christ,

who gives me strength through the Messiah,

who strengthens me." As Paul understood the presence

of the Messiah in his life, it gave him strength,

and as we, the same as the sheep, who when they saw

the presence of the shepherd,

it gave them the ability to deal with their situations.

And it's the same for us, and that gives me a lot of comfort,

even in difficult times, knowing that the shepherd is

right there taking care of me.

We'll be right back.

Shalom, I'm Mitch Glaser,

president of Chosen People Ministries.

Is it possible for Jewish people to believe in Jesus

when there's such a sad history of Christian antisemitism

that has shaped Jewish attitudes towards the gospel? Well,

I know there's hope because I'm Jewish and I believe in Jesus.

And I would love to offer a few suggestions

for reaching Jewish people personally with the love of God

through Messiah.

First, keep your message personal.

You're representing a person, not a religion.

Second, be loving, patient and kind even when they object.

And then finally, and most importantly, pray,

touching the heart of your Jewish friend

with the good news of

Messiah will also touch the very heart of God.

And you can learn more by visiting Chosen

People Ministries

at chosenpeople.com/radio.

During these difficult times, we know how hard it is

to hold on to hope,

and we want you to know that Chosen People

Ministries is here for you.

If you have any prayer requests, our prayer team is standing by

to receive them.

You can submit your request at chosenpeople.com/pray again

that's chosenpeople.com/pray.

The famous scripture, everyone knows that Psalm,

23, "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want."

What connections are there between that and Ezekiel 34,

which we're talking about today? Rich: Well, I think,

clearly, you know, David had in mind

as a shepherd himself, again

that connectedness between the shepherd and the sheep.

And for David to tell us that the Lord is, is our shepherd

that just the way the sheep look to the shepherd

for everything, we have the Lord as our shepherd.

For David, knowing how much he loved his own sheep

that gave him comfort and that

phrase "I shall not want" is written in the negative.

So what it really means is I don't lack anything.

And if you go through all the

English translations, they, they use that word a lot. Yeah,

that's why the title of my book has the word "dayenu",

because the Lord is my shepherd, "dayenu", "that's enough".

And when we come to that idea that the Lord is our shepherd,

and that's enough,

that gives us that comfort relating it to Ezekiel 34.

It's talking about the millennial kingdom

and the presence of the Lord

and the presence of David as His helper and our shepherd, and

I don't know, having David as my personal shepherd on the Earth

sounds pretty cool to me.

So Rich,

what is the Messiah's role exactly, according to

this passage in Ezekiel?

Well, I think again,

we have to look in the context of what is this speaking about?

And this is speaking about

Jesus physically bodily being on the Earth,

watching His people and taking care of them

in a way that the shepherd takes care of His sheep.

And so again, it talks about judgment

and that there's going to be the

judgment of believers and unbelievers.

But when Jesus' Kingdom begins,

the only ones entering it are going to be believers in Him.

It's going to be His flock, so to speak. And

the the picture of that intimate relationship

between the shepherd and the sheep really speaks again

of our relationship to the Lord.

One of my favorite passages is the one where it says

the Lord knows every

everything about us, even the literally

the number of hairs on our head.

And I've been blessed to have a lot of hair.

So, you know, I always

tease my friends who don't have as much hair

saying, "Well, it's easier to know you than it is to know

me." But again, you know, all kidding aside, the idea

that the Lord knows everything about me, even all of my flaws,

all of my faults and still loves me, gives me so much comfort.

And this this picture comparing

the Lord as the Shepherd of Israel compared

basically to shepherds who were mercenaries, who did i

for the money, for the power, for the prestige,

not because hey cared for the sheep, but

because they took

advantage of their position as the shepherd of Israel,

and the Lord is not like that.

And we could take great comfort in that.

What is His leadership style going to be like?

What, what, what is like?

I'm just- I like to dream

and imagine a little bit what that will look like.

And, you know, hearing that David will help

administer, clearly there's some sort of hierarchy.

There's structure, it's not chaos, you know.

No, it's very organized.

Right? Rich: No question about it.

What does that leadership look like?

Well, I mean, obviously,

when Jesus was on the Earth

with His disciples, He talked about servant leadership.

So it's being able to give

and put your own needs in a secondary way.

I know in the the many years that I've pastored,

I used to kid with my wife and say the one thing I do

a lot of is apologize because unfortunately, you know

for whatever reason, sometimes people will react to something

you say or or something you do and get offended.

And the last thing you want is for that offence to to remai

so you want to take care of those things.

And I believe in a sense, that's going to be

Jesus leadership style.

If there's any sort of issue,

He's going to deal with it immediately.

And quite frankly, yes, David is going to be

in the millennial kingdom as the shepherd of Israel,

but we as glorified saints

are also going to help administrate His kingdom.

And that excites me as well.

Yeah, yeah, we all have a part.

Wow. So Rich, when

will this prophecy be fulfilled, is it all in the future?

Are there some parts of it

that have been fulfilled already? Abe: And Mitch,

I should tell you, Mitch

Glaser gave us a date in the first episode.

So whoever is whoever is the closest

to that date, wins the prize.

When will it be fulfilled huh? Well,

you know, I think

in Bible prophecy, there's some things

that you can begin to see the beginnings of.

One of my favorite prophecies is in Zachary, where it talks

about old men will be on the streets and the children

will be playing.

And you know, for those of us who've been in Israel

and we sat in the Old City of Jerusalem,

having a break for lunch,

you see the little children playing in the playground

and the old men sitting and playing cards,

and it's almost you could see as Israel's back in the land

that some of these prophecies are beginning.

But clearly, this is talking about the millennial kingdom.

It's talking about the return of Jesus.

And there is a whole process to that where,

from my perspective

of the Church, the body of believers, the Body of Messiah

is going to be caught up to be with the Lord in the air first.

That's the way I look at this.

And then we're going to have the revealing of this

political leader

that we call the Anti-Christ or the Anti-Messiah,

who's going to basically rule the world for a period of time.

And it equates to the

chapter 9 of Daniel, where he talks about these 70 periods

of 70 years of seven years that he calls weeks.

And that last period, the last seven years

is what we commonly call the tribulation period.

And that's going to be the time where where the Church

will be taken out.

But there's going to

be a great revival

among those who are left behind, who are going to recognize

all the reality of hopefully what we've shared with them.

And then after and after that

seven year period is up, Jesus is going to return.

The Prophet Zacharias says His feet will stand

on the Mount Olives, facing Jerusalem to the east,

and He's going to return, it says all His holy ones with Him

and that's talking about us.

And that really, that gives me goosebumps

that we're going to return to Earth

with Jesus and help Him administrate this kingdom.

So getting back to your question, I think

the fulfillment again is in the future when

we don't know when, but obviously each day we get close

Amen.

I don't think we're that far away personally.

Rich, I love how excited you are by talking about this

like I can, I can hear

how excited you are for this coming kingdom.

But I'm just curious when you first became a believer,

can you recall when you first heard about these prophecies?

Can you recall when you first actually understood

what these prophecies meant and maybe talk

about some of the emotion

or how you felt hearing these for the first time?

Well, as a Jewish

believer, I was the first one in my family to get safe.

Eventually, my mother

and then my father got saved, my father on his deathbed.

And I remember hearing

my pastor teach on the rapture of the Church.

You know, the time we get caught up

to be with the Lord in the air.

And he made a point of saying that the world is going to thin

that maybe space aliens came and took us away, but

we need to tell people it was Jesus it wasn't space aliens.

And so I thought, I need to tell my sister.

Now, I'm five years older than my sister,

so I'm her big brother. She always looked up to me.

I was in the business world and was was reasonably

successful in the business world and and basically gave it

all up to go into ministry.

And so I was always considered a little weird,

by my sister and her family.

And so I took my sister out to lunch

and I said to her, "You know,

if one day everybody who believes the way

I believe disappears all at the same time,

I want you to know that it wasn't space aliens who came

and took us away, but it was Jesus."

And I was real excited and pumped up and I thought,

this is really going to speak to her.

And my poor sister looked at me.

Her eyes got as wide as saucers, and she knew beyond

any shadow of a doubt that her brother was crazy.

I could just see it in her face.

And you know, thank God, we still have a good

relationship, and that's many, many years since.

But I was I just knew that I had to tell my sister about this.

Yeah, yeah. Rich: And and I did.

And I always tell people, you know, if you're worried

that your family's going to think you're crazy,

by telling them about this,

if you were already living for Jesus, I have news for you,

they already think you're crazy.

So you might as well prove them right.

And if there's anybody listening in who wants to follo

Jesus as their Lord, as their shepherd,

what do they need to do?

You know, I think that it's important

for us to understand you can't just say

the Lord is my shepherd, you have to acknowledge

not only is He my shepherd, but I'm one of His sheep

and you know, sheep are not the smartest animals in the world.

They're not the most dynamic animals in the world.

I mean, you don't have any sports teams named the sheep.

It just doesn't fit.

Sheep are not, something that we tend to equate to our lives.

And sheep are very, very submissive.

So in order for the Lord to be my shepherd,

I have to be willing to submit to Him,

to submit to His leadership, to allow Him to lead me

in a place that He knows is best for me and that

that takes a willingness to relinquish control.

One of the things that

we, as human beings strive for is to be able

to control our situations and our environments.

And it's been said more than once by many people

smarter than myself that control is an illusion.

We don't have control.

We're basically subject to our circumstances.

They can be good,

they can be bad, they could be somewhere in the middle.

But if we relinquish control to the Messiah,

He promises to take us to a place that's always best

for us. David begins to describe that "He makes me lie down.

He leads me. He restores me,"

those are the kinds of things that the Lord does.

And you have to be willing to submit to Him as our Shepher

to truly make that a reality.

And quite frankly, not everybody is willing to do that

to relinquish that control and authority to the Lord.

But when you do and this has

been my experience for almost 40 years, when you do,

it doesn't get any better than that.

I was a very successful person

in a different environment, in a different world.

And it was empty to me.

Once I compared that

to knowing the Lord and knowing that I

was able to stop worrying about what my future would entail

because I knew that the Lord is my shepherd where He was going

to take me eventually.

And Psalm 23 end, "And

I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever."

And that's the ultimate.

That's something that we should all strive for

to be able to spend eternity with Him. And that's what

the Lord provides for us as our Great Shepherd.

The notion of the Messiah being like a shepherd

who guides, protects,

and provides for His flock is so encouraging.

What is more—Ezekiel 34 gives us a vision of how

God will deliver His people and heal the world.

In the end, as verse 30 puts it, “‘Then

they will know that I, the Lord their God, am with them,

and that they, the house of Israel, are my people,’

declares the Lord God.” We look forward to the day

when Jesus returns to set things right.

Until then, we can rely on our Good Shepherd

to always guide, provide, and protect.

If you are listening and you

have questions about today's episode,

if you're early in your faith, if you're confused,

if you just have a lot of questions,

we'd love to hear from you.

You can email us at believe@chosenpeople.com.

Again, that email is believe@chosenpeople.com.

We would love to chat with you.

So join us next time as we continue this series

on Messianic prophecies.

Thank you for listening to this

week's episode of Our Hope featuring Rich Freeman.

This episode was produced by Nicole Vacca and Grace Swee,

written by Rachel Larsen and edited by Grace Swee.

This episode was also created thanks to Dr.

Mitch Glaser, Karen Bautista and Dr.

Michael Rydelnik. I'm Abe Vazquez.

Until next time.

Thanks for listening to

Our Hope. If you like our show and want to know more,

check out ourhopepodcast.com or chosenpeople.com.

You can also support our podcast by giving today at

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