How often do you find yourself judging yourself or others? If you’re aware of that voice, you can learn to befriend it and use it for your greater good. Guest Joan-Clare Gilbert shares with host Meredith Bell strategies she’s used with herself and with clients to reduce the amount of time spent in judging and more in loving.

Joan-Claire shares her journey to becoming a coach and what’s she learned from her own coaches that she now applies with her clients. You’ll appreciate the loving, gentle approach she offers to being kind to yourself when faced with situations that could challenge you.

About the Guest: 

Joan-Claire Gilbert is The Ultimate Relationship Coach.  A formerly practicing attorney, she is now a trained mental fitness coach and leadership coach who helps attorneys and entrepreneurs create powerfully loving and mutually supportive relationships, both at home and in the workplace.

She works with law firm managing partners and other business leaders who want a competitive edge and also want to create a team of engaged, collaborative leaders who get the job done.

Joan-Claire grew up in the fertile Willamette Valley of Oregon, USA in a family wholesale tree nursery business, graduated from Princeton University (A.B., Economics) and Notre Dame Law School, and began her law career in Portland, Oregon at a boutique litigation firm.

​After struggling for many years with a debilitating autoimmune condition as a mother of young children and feeling like the problem was always "out there," Joan-Claire discovered a better way, and began her personal development journey in earnest.  

​Since becoming a professional coach in 2020, she has seen her clients have profound breakthroughs that have been hugely impactful on their professional work, on their relationships, and on their organizations.

​You can read more about Joan-Claire's journey from stuck and disempowered to powerful in her chapter "Finding Your True Power in Your Presence to Yourself" in the 2022 co-authored bestseller I Am Powerful, available on Amazon.  

Website: https://www.joanclairecoaching.com/  

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joanclairegilbert 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanclairecoaching/ 

About the Host:

Meredith Bell is the Co-founder and President of Grow Strong Leaders. Her company publishes software tools and books that help people build strong relationships at work and at home.

Meredith is an expert in leader and team communications, the author of three books, and the host of the Grow Strong Leaders Podcast. She co-authored her latest books, Connect with Your Team: Mastering the Top 10 Communication Skills, and Peer Coaching Made Simple, with her business partner, Dr. Dennis Coates. In them, Meredith and Denny provide how-to guides for improving communication skills and serving as a peer coach to someone else.

Meredith is also The Heart-centered Connector. One of her favorite ways of BEING in the world is to introduce people who can benefit from knowing each other.

https://growstrongleaders.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredithmbell

The Ultimate Coach Resources



https://theultimatecoachbook.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theultimatecoach

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theultimatecoachbook

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14048056

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheUltimateCoachBook

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

Subscribe to the podcast

If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Leave us an Apple Podcasts review

Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. 

Welcome to The Ultimate Coach podcast conversations from being inspired by the book, The Ultimate Coach, written by Amy Hardison, and Alan Thompson. Join us each week with the intention of expanding your state of being, and your experience will be remarkable. Remember, this is a podcast about be. It is a podcast about you. To explore more deeply, visit the ultimate Coach book.com. Now, enjoy today's conversation from be

welcome to another episode of The Ultimate Coach Podcast. I'm Meredith Bell, one of your hosts for the show. And I'm so pleased to bring you today's guest. It's Joan Claire Gilbert. Joan Claire, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Meredith. It's delightful to be here with you.

I've been looking forward to this conversation because Joan, Claire is very active in the Bing community, she heads up the ultimate coach LinkedIn group, and she's began hosting a wonderful monthly series called ring being into business and the workplace. And we'll talk about that a little bit later. But first, Joe, Claire, I want to find out how did you learn about the ultimate coach book and get involved with this community?

Yeah, great question. So Meredith, I became a coach in the late summer of 2020, as I had decided that I wanted to share my journey with autoimmune champ overcoming out on new challenges for the last decade, when we moved here to Phoenix from Oregon with my family. And I began to I started a Facebook group for women with autoimmune challenges. And I decided that, you know, I want to get to know these woman more one on one and see what's really going on with them. And so I offered some coaching, and my husband suggested, you know, you might want to look into what coaching is about if you're gonna say you're a coach, you know, three years ago, so I Googled how to be a life coach. And John stressors program came up and gratefully, that program introduced me to so many of Steve Hardison clients, just you know, interviews that John Strasser did with them. So I got this whole litany of Steve Hardison clients that I got to know and even connect with on calls right from the get go and my coaching journey. And then in those conversations, of course, learned about Steve Hardison. The TBI to NFL interview came up. So I had an idea of who Steve Hardison was very early on, but that was, you know, a year or two before the manuscript came out. And actually, after I did that program, I hired Daniel Horner is my one on one coach and mentor, and began doing deep inner work on who I was being on overcoming some childhood trauma, of abandonment. And when the manuscript came out, that's when I you know, of course, the Bing movement officially started, I guess, you might say, and I just become fascinated with, you know, what's the backstory behind Steve Hardison? What's his journey. And so I initially read the book about him, not so much about me. And because I had already been doing a lot of that deeper inner work, I don't feel like the manuscript, like, you know, threw off lightning bolts for me or anything like that, initially. But as I got into the, to the book, and the movement in the Facebook group more and just conversing with all these wonderful people about being and coming from love and service. Of course, more and more, I've gotten into it, and it's just a really powerful way to coach people. And, you know, the coaches I admire the most or the the ones that are coming from Steve Hardison, Steve Chandler, that world where they're just coming from unconditional love and self forgiveness and service. So Well,

it's interesting that you said the first time you read it, you were reading it about Steve Hardison. You read it again, with the once the book came out, and you had the text on the back cover, and then those first pages, did you read it about yourself after that?

Yeah, of course. I mean, I think there's always a tendency to kind of get intrigued in what's happening and not and not be brought back to who you're being. But in my experience, actually, the most profound insights I've had around who I'm being has been, when I'm with a group of like, one or two other people reading it together, and we're speaking in aloud. There's something in the speaking of the questions on the back of the book or the front of the book, which I think brings this profundity or, you know, deafness to it than that I don't typically have always when I'm reading it by myself It's like that poaching space of sacred space of we're all here to be open and receive insights. And so initially, I had a little mini book reading with a couple of members in the LinkedIn to see group and that was really meaningful. And then as I decided to start this spring feeding into business book reading roundtable, for the LinkedIn, of course, as the leader, I wanted to have deep insights about who was being so that was additional motivation to show up fully, and really do the work of like, who am I being and reading this? And what insights Am I having? And then, you know, being able to share that with the group too, as well. So yeah, of course, yeah. Now, of course, reading it about who I'm being not, not who Steve is,

it really is fascinating. The difference in how it feels and how it comes across. When you're reading it about yourself. I'm curious if you have a favorite chapter in the book that has really spoken to you and what impact that's had on your thinking and way of being?

Yeah, thank you. So the love chapter, I don't know what chapter it is, it's more toward the end of the book, I found that to be the most, I don't know, I guess shifting. For me, in my own relationships. As I've, the more I've coached, I see that I love to impact people's relationships, first with themselves than with their intimate with their loved ones, you know, their spouse, or their partner or their kids. And then you know, the workplace as well. And as sometimes they come at it through the professional space, and then it impacts their personal relationships that way. But that love chapter, I love how, and this is what I love, and in particular about the ultimate coach and Steve's world is using language to create our reality, you know, that's something that I've, you know, I know, Warner Earhart, and a lot of these other influences are a piece of that. But it's amazing to, to really realize the power of our language to create our relationships, through acknowledgments through our thinking in our internal speaking and creation, whether that's in our declaration, or just becoming more aware of what our thoughts are of our, our loved ones, choosing to focus on the good. There's so much in there that's so impactful about you know, Amy, even saying he he sees me even beyond what I am, you know, Steve really going all out creating his beloved wife AB in such a powerful way and seeing that as a possibility for myself and for people I coach. And not to say that we don't have moments of, you know, deep listening and sharing and power, how we're feeling not psycho, we're just going to pretend everything's perfect, and she's perfect. But it definitely lends the relationship in a way of how much power I have, on my end, to create, regardless of what the other person's doing. And that's really powerful to focus on what the power you have within yourself to create the relationship and not wait for them to change or whatever you know, you're waiting for.

Yes, I've seen that too. In my relationship with my husband, that I will think about him before I see him in the morning. Yeah, you know, when I've been working, and then I see him at lunch or after work. And the thoughts that I have have everything to do with how I approach him. Yeah, things that I say to him in a lodgements. So I'm curious, what have you seen in your own relationships with your family members? This Yeah, you can on that creation?

For sure. Well, it's it's both the language piece, but I think a big piece of it is also getting really clear with who you're being with yourself. I think it always starts with yourself. So, you know, in the work I do with clients, and with myself continually is self awareness of how am I judging myself? Why am I being with myself? How am I creating myself because if that energy is coming from fear or judgment, inevitably, it shows up in my relationship with my loved ones. That's how I be with myself. It's how I view with them. So, you know, for me, it's a continual self awareness, checking in with myself, Who am I being with myself, okay, that's not a useful thought. That's a judgment. going inward, doing the self forgiveness work, seeing my innocence, empathizing, you know, it's like a, it's a, it's like, I have the tool set now, so I can continually come back to it. It's not like the judgments don't show up at all anymore, right? So I have that toolkit. And then when I noticed that I'm judging my husband or my kids, then it's like, Okay, turn the arrow back on yourself, not as not as a point of judgment, but just for discernment, like what's going on here? You know, and so that's that's the process for me and And when I clean that up, inevitably cleans up what's going on out there with them, you know, there might need to still be some straight conversations about things going on. It's like, it's not like we just ignore, you know what's happening out there. But it's that energy that I'm bringing to those conversations that really makes the difference.

You know, you're bringing up something that I have found to be so true. And I love the way you described it. If you're getting critical and judgmental of other people, it really is important to look at what's going on with me, because it's always the case, that if I'm feeling intolerant, because I'm feeling pushed, you know, under a time constraint or something, if I'm showing impatience to them, that others it's because of what's going on within myself. And I think we can save so much time. And energy, if we'll pause when we catch ourselves in that state, like you just described, to look at. Is this serving me? Well? Is this serving them? Well? So yeah, and you're bringing up such an important point around this whole thing of judging ourselves? Yeah, there's so much talk that we do to ourselves, why didn't you do this? Why didn't they say that? What, you know, that if we become aware of that inner chatter, that we often allow our brains to do to us? And, and becoming aware, what are some things that have helped you become more aware so that you catch yourself sooner, rather than later. So it doesn't run away with you? Because you're right, we're not going to stop judging. But the key is to catch that early and be more aware.

Yeah, well, there's so many different angles, I've done this with myself and clients, first of all, is, is even like, learning how to drop out of your thinking and into your body through many mindfulness reps, I call it and be more on your body and connected to your intuition. And when you when you're not so caught up the thinking and the rational side of your mind, even the left side of your brain, you can kind of slow down and notice your thoughts kind of, you know, coming in and out and, and that's just a practice for the party to slow down and not be caught up in your thinking, right and being in your body. Kind of like many meditation reps, I call them, or many mindfulness reps. Another way is just to take some time, like an hour, you know, when you have some time for yourself and write out all your judgments like Who do I fear that I am? Who am I not from an enlightened point, like, the truth of who I am, and my inner essence, and you know, the way God created me to be, but who do I fear that I need to be to be successful, to be loved? Who Who do I fear that I am and using those prompts and coming up with a list of judgments and then really working with them one by one. Another thing I do with clients and with myself is to just notice the energy, how am I feeling? You know, it could be that I didn't sleep well last night or ate something that you know, inflames my brain or whatever. But it could just be that I'm not speaking kindly to myself today. You know, and so it's not even like I know exactly what the thought is. But it's like, I feel that energy of tightness of worry, or anxiety or constriction, and it's like, I don't even know, I need to know exactly what the thought is, I know, it's not kind and so I'm going to slow down and drop in my body and empathize and, and, you know, connect to my heart. In that way that I've learned and really working with a coach. I did a lot of deeper inner work with Daniel harder for a year on that and learning to connect and be present to my heart in a powerful way. Which, you know, I lose track of at times, but I continually come back to that as like, being present to this little girl within myself and seeing her innocence. And just pouring the Love on Her is a really beautiful way to check, silence the judgments and, you know, be present to that. That goodness within, you know, and continually come back to that because, by nature, we're going to judge ourselves, that's just what we do. And then we judge others and judge situations. And so if you have a way of learning, you know, sometimes having a mentor or coach can help you with that, to slow down and really learn what it's like to have a powerful relationship with yourself. That's That's powerful. You can have anywhere you go, no matter your circumstances, no matter what's going on. It's gold. So

I love that that's such an important insight that I hope everyone will really listen to and take heart to heart because we get so are busy doing. And to me, this is part of you know who we are being. And it's what I love about the being the the being concepts. And what you're bringing up I think is so critical because we can work so much on others in terms of our, our thoughts and how we're being with others. But it really has to start core of who we're being with ourselves. And I liked the image you just painted about our treating ourselves in the word kind. Mind, we are kind and compassionate to others, if we saw them in pain. And sometimes we have trouble giving that to ourselves. And I bet you work with some clients that struggle with that, too. And I'm curious, how do you help them make that shift from that judgmental critical of themselves to take a lighter approach, and treat themselves as kindly as they would treat someone they really care about?

Yeah, well, I have used a program that I love called Positive Intelligence. You know, also taking the learnings I did at the work with Daniel Horner and my own, you know, just from from all angles, it's really being aware of what that Judge judging voice even is, you know, I think for many of us, it's just like this white noise that we have there, because that's the way we were raised, it's the ideas we have that, you know, I work with a lot of what you might call hyper achiever type people who feel like they constantly need to be achieving, or doing more and more to be worthy to be successful, right. That's kind of the way I, you know, develop meaning within myself, I come from a family where we have high expectations or visions for what we want to achieve. And that's great. But it comes sometimes at a cost because you can develop a an identity or meaning within yourself, and I need to always be doing more and be active and not sitting still ever. Or that's just lazy, right? So, so really, it's helping just people see how they're operating who they're being within themselves, using a language of like the judge or your Sabbath chores, or your default way of being, and helping them see what the what the cost is of that, right. It's like, that voice is constantly berating themselves, how does that feel? You know, and, and some people have never, if they've never had a coach, or they've never done this deeper work, it's just, it's just there, and they don't even realize it, it's just like, that's normal, this is normal, right? It's like, opening up a possibility that you don't have to live in a way with someone whipping you all the time, you can actually, you know, develop a kind listen to a more kind voice within yourself, you know, the judge will come up at times, but you can create some distance with it. So you know, thank you found a better way now, I'm actually going to be better off now this way, thank you for what you've done for me to get me to this point. But I found a better way. I really encourage clients not to see their judges as like evil force within themselves, that they've got a fight. It's more like we can kind of be friend or judge and, and let him or her know that, or that voice to know that we found a better way. And, and then, like I said, the mini mindfulness reps drop us out of that fearful thinking. And then I usually encourage my clients to we have some time where we bring a childhood picture, and we begin to use that visual image as a reminder to connect with that innocence. And that, that heart centered being that just was more free of all these, you know, limiting on useful thoughts and judgments that we developed along the way throughout the years. And I have one right here and it just a reminder to me to connect with her, which is my heart. And when I'm more present to her, I can be more present to others, and their inner child and their and their heart and see their innocence and you know, just just diffuses that judgment that can pop up so easily.

I'd love to hear if you get resistance from people, because you're right, there are certainly individuals that haven't ever looked at it that way that it felt normal. I was one of those for the longest time, just this chatter going on and these criticisms going on, and just accepting them as a way and not realizing that I had a choice. Are there some areas of resistance that you see people having or they don't seem to grasp or understand this and how do you guide them to being more open so they can hear what you're trying to share with them?

Right So great question. So I experienced this my Self, even though I began to do deeper inner work through that coaching program, I initially joined and you know, learning a lot about personal development. When Daniel coached me, especially, you know, he wanted me to slow down and see my judgments. And I really resisted it, I was like, I want to go fast now that I hired you, so I can go fast, like, I didn't pay all this money, so you can help me slow down. You know, it's just pretty mean, he could, he could relate that as well, that I'm kind of like this fast car, in many ways. And so, you know, I really just had to learn to trust that this was actually what I needed to do, it was at a certain level, it's just seeing that what you're doing is not working. Right. It's like, okay, maybe I'm achieving quite a bit or, you know, I have the fancy paycheck or whatever, but I'm miserable inside, and I'm open to trying something else. It's like, unchartered territory. But hey, what do I have to lose? You know, I guess the fear is that if I slow down, I'll become lazy, and I will do anything, and I'll just be a bum on the couch. That was what I, you know, I think a lot of hyper achiever type people have an idea like, well, if I slow down, then like, I won't want to do anything, I'll just watch Netflix all day and eat ice cream, or, you know, and so it's like, yeah, it doesn't have to be extreme, but like, taking some moments throughout the day to slow down, drop in your body, you know, be present with yourself, let's just experiment with that. Let's see how that goes for you. And, and so even with those baby steps with clients, like attorneys, they notice how much it helps them be more focused, and deliver better work product. And, you know, listen more generously be more attentive to what they're hearing from their colleagues from the partners. So it's really just a matter of like, I need help guide me it's like, okay, well, how about we try this and oftentimes are inevitably, really, they see that that slowing down actually helps them feel better, it helps them work more productively, and actually increase their hours and they enjoy they have more confidence, you know, it's just like, all these ripple effects from learning to slow down, be present, stop judging yourself so harshly, do the self forgiveness work. And it's an ongoing journey, right? This isn't just a one and done thing. So but now they have the toolkit to do that on their own. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's

so powerful and so important. And it seems paradoxical, slow down in order to speed up. But there's so much wisdom in that, to be able to listen to ourselves. And you mentioned, listen generously. And of course, I was thinking of Lloyd thicket and collaborative way. Recently, I think, the second guest in your series that you've created on the bring being into business in the workplace. So let's, let's talk about that. I think it'll be of great interest to many of the listeners of this podcast to get involved in that particular activity. So what was it that caused you to decide? I want to set this up and experiment? And yeah, see, what is what's the purpose behind it?

Yeah, for sure. Well, I actually had a conversation with another member of the LinkedIn to UC group, she actually just offered to start a kind of a connection, bingo, of sorts, networking, roulette, we call it and the LinkedIn group. And as I got to know her on a call, she was sharing just how, you know, I'm having some challenges with brain some of this being these being concepts or, you know, distinctions in the book into the workplace, because she's not, she doesn't work as a coach. So it's not her world personal development isn't like what she lives and breathes in her work. And that just kind of set off a, you know, light bulb in my head, like, wow, she can't be the only one, you know, that struggling with or, you know, maybe not struggling, but just finding some challenges with, you know, honoring commitments or, you know, listening well or, you know, integrity, and how can we apply these even better in the workplace, you know, and there's, I'm sure there's some discussion of that going on in the Facebook group and in the book reading there, which is amazing. But I thought as my leader ship, roll the LinkedIn group, this is something I can bring the end offer, you know, as for us to come together, you know, my vision has really been to have people who are not necessarily in personal development, for their work, who are doing other occupations and professions and helping them you know, bounce ideas off each other and share their growth, what their challenges have been, and just helping us see together who am I being as a business leader as a, as a, you know, whatever role I have in a workplace setting and how can I be more of that person I want to be Eat and create the outcomes I want. And let's come together consciously together with that intention, and have insights around whom we're being, you know, as leaders or as mentees, or, you know, visionaries for our businesses, whatever it is, and create that space. So that's really been the intention. And it's been wonderful. There's been a lot of coaches who've come up at their come to those. But there's more recently been people who are not in personal development, I've invited and they're now reading the book. So it's exciting to see how more people can be brought into the fold. And during this conversation around being in the workplace,

I really am so glad you've done that there's such a need for it. Because when we think about some of the challenges we face in the workplace, like a co worker, or our own manager that we have had friction or tensions with. And so who am I being in those interactions, there's just so many opportunities, I think, to apply the principles in the concepts of creating others, creating those relationships, and what is my role and responsibility? So I want to acknowledge you for taking the initiative to get that started. And I'd like to explore a little bit more about Lloyd thicket and what he brought up there in that second group, because I think that's when you decided to get his book The collaborative way or had yet before that, in some circles, are those five components that he talked about in creating the collaborative way?

Yes, I was. So I was already intrigued with a collaborative way. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have invited, invited Lloyd to be with us. But yes, of course, in having him there, I was like, I need to read this book. I mean, that's just like a no brainer, right? I can't lead a group about and speak about the collaborative way not having read his book. And I was already interested. So the book is just really very engaging, and simple, but powerful. And these commitments, you know, listen, generously, speaking, straight, being for each other, honor your commitments, acknowledgement and appreciation. They're so powerful, and they're, you know, the more I learned about it, it's like they're all held, held together in one in one moment, like, it's not like, we switch from acknowledging, to listening generously to then honoring commitments, it's like, it's a journey learning to learning these concepts of really ways of being, and practicing them. But it's also this beautiful art or dance of learning how to hold them all into play at once. You know, so and that's what I'm learning about it. Now, I'm speaking with a member of Boyd's team, as well about it. And so I am excited because I want to I want to bring this more into into organizations because I see a deepening my own understanding. So selfishly, I know, as a coach, you know, a lot of us like to be coaches, because we get to deepen our own self awareness and an understanding of ourselves and how, who we're being but it also benefits that people were with and I see this, and already kind of bringing in these concepts with some clients, I have working in a team environment and seeing the effect is really powerful. And some of them around like being for each other. You know, I don't think I had read the book yet, but just like, assuming positive intent, and, you know, cuz so often in the workplace, I think, you know, maybe woman especially can take a look wrong and create in their mind, like she's mad at me, or she's trying to, you know, undermine me or whatever. Any of us can create stories. And I love that concept of being for each other and just deciding, choosing really, to assume positive intent to assume innocence, I guess, you might say. And so there's just so much depth and many layers to this collaborative way that I'm really excited about right now.

Well, and I should mention that there's an earlier podcast episode in which Philip bar to one of our hosts interviewed Lloyd, because it is featured very prominently in the ultimate coach book, especially in the chapter demolition, right? So I would encourage listeners, if you haven't listened to that interview, that Philip Ian had with Lloyd, it was an amazing conversation where they really did talk about some of the elements, that of what's involved and you know, you're right, the common thread in all of them is Who am I being in order to do these five different things? They are all interrelated. You're so right. And I'm, I'd love to know For some of your clients of you that you've worked with in the workplace, have you seen some aha was that they've had, or shifts that they've made in the way they show up in the way they are being with other people who may be they have had issues with in the past.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, that's been a really powerful recent development, for me working with individuals in the workplace that are experiencing comp, that we're experiencing conflict, you know, maybe even so, for, as an example, a couple of people I'm working with, you know, their, their conflict was, so I guess you might say, intense, it was affecting the whole culture in the in the organization, because they're two of the top people in the organization. And so I'm working with them, mostly together and working through them with this, you know, the Positive Intelligence program I use, helping them be aware of their judge their own saboteurs is having that self awareness allows them to see how they're creating the other person, you know, and judging that person and their own judgments of themselves. Giving them the opportunity to be vulnerable with each other helps them see each other's innocence in many ways to, you know, when you bring them together that way. And now they're at a point where they're, they literally told me, you know, like, we're each other's best supporters now in the workplace after a few months. And they're actually looking at how can we bring what we've learned here and practiced to other relationships, because we're seeing other people having conflicts or, you know, creating in their mind that other people are certain way. So that's been really exciting for me to see how they came from, you know, kind of an extreme conflict situation to being now like leaders, and advocates for we want to help other people in our organization experience this. And, to me that that's what's exciting about the organizational component is like the, you know, when you affect one person, there's a ripple effect and with an organization, and you can really effect a lot of relationships at once. You know,

yes, it will, it's so true. And the beauty of what you helped facilitate there is that allows them to be less judgmental of others. You know, it's not an isolated case where you do this work with this one person, and it doesn't impact how you interact with other people, including your family. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that awareness, I applaud you for helping them that, in fact, conflict resolution is a big part of your work with clients, isn't

it? Yeah, I'd say. So with whether it's individual or with a group, in an organization, a lot of it is, you know, I have this issue with my spouse, or my kids, or, you know, and sometimes it doesn't even, it's not even that they come to me for that. It's just like, we see how the work that we're doing. One of their biggest takeaways is my relationships are completely transformed. And that's not necessarily even what they came for. But it's like what we spoke to in the beginning of this interview is that relationship with themselves. Once they have that, then it just naturally transforms their relationship with everyone else. And so

it's such an important point. It's interesting, too, as I'm sitting here listening, and thinking about when somebody comes to you, I'm guessing, they aren't coming to initially saying, I need help with myself. It's they're focused on another person. Is that true? Oh, of course.

Yeah. 100% I don't think anyone normally comes to say I have I need help with myself. Yeah, because we all naturally, that's just I think, the human condition, our default is to see that the problem is out there. That's how I even got into coaching, frankly, you know, coming with autoimmune challenges and challenges in my own family, and it's all out there. There's nothing I can do. I've tried changing it, but it's not working. It's like, okay, what's left? Okay, I guess I could go within. Maybe I'll try that, you know, and, and I still need to relearn it. It's not like I've 100% got it. I catch myself, you know, judging people in my family at times, and it's like, okay, I need it. Go back within myself and see how I'm how I'm being with myself. And as I said, it's like having that practice and language to work within yourself is a really powerful tool to have.

And you know, the other insight I'm getting as I'm listening to John Clare is, I am guessing you share some of your own journey with your clients as a part of helping them see this is an ongoing process. They haven't arrived, either you use those kinds of, I'll call them self disclosures, but sharing with some of your own experiences. So they feel like, Oh, she's arrived, she's up here on this pedestal, I'll never be like that.

Yes, I think that's so important. Meredith, I know, I had the tendency to put coaches I really admire on pedestals, and that doesn't serve me. And so even for Yeah, with my clients, I like to share, you know, not like, unloaded all on them, like they become my therapist, right, but just show a little vulnerability and say, like, this is something I've struggled with, maybe give a little example, you know, like, I have a tendency to want to control other people and, you know, that might have developed in childhood from different experiences, but it doesn't serve me well in my relationships. And sometimes I have to just see that time and time again, before, you know, it's like, I have to remind myself, this doesn't work. Because there's a default that wants to still believe that that actually works to control people to get one. And so I just like, want to share with them, it's like, you know, if you find yourself, still trying to, you know, be if you're still operating in this old operating system, don't beat yourself up about it, we all do. It may never completely go away, you know, and, but it's like being more aware, we can catch it early. And we don't have to go down these negative spirals where for minutes, hours, days, we're stuck in this thought loop of the problems out there. And we're stuck in our suffering mode, because we want them to change or whatever it is, right? We can, we can actually go within and catch that earlier on and be loved, create this loving space within ourselves, and be free. And then that that impacts our relationships. And yeah, I just see this as the deepest work I can do with myself. And that's why I love to bring it to my clients.

That's so great. You know, as I was listening to you, and picturing myself as one of your clients, I could feel myself relaxing, somewhat, because it's this idea of our have to strive to get it right. And I think that's something that high achievers like you and I tend to do, you know, we set this standard like I want to get there, I want to do it just right. And there is no just right. It's a matter of paying attention slowing down again. Yeah, in chin and sitting with. And I've just really enjoyed the different phrases you have used, that have a calming effect, I noticed just on the nervous system on on the body, just focusing on allowing yourself to focus on what is my body saying, right now. It's so caught up in our brains, and what our heads are saying to us, we might not see it. And notice our stomachs tied our hearts beating faster, some of these other signs that our body is trying to communicate to us that we overlook, because we're in our heads,

you're gonna fall Yes, for me, for sure. It's been like, this energy of anxiety, right? I've struggled with anxiety in various forms, I think especially since college. And so just, it's like, I don't even need to know, like I said, what the thought is, I can feel it in my body. So now it's time to slow down and get present, and, and be present in my body and get connected to my heart. And that's often just what I need to do to, you know, to start doing whatever I need to do next, be at my best. And I love what you said about being a kind of a hyper achiever in some sense, even in personal development, it's like we're going into personal development to, you know, find better ways of being and doing things. But sometimes we can even be that way with have that energy with the process. And that can get in the way, right? So being even gentle with ourselves when we notice ourselves reverting, or, you know, at times, going back to those old ways of being and doing.

I can only love others as much as I love myself. And that's, that's really the key. To me, that's a huge piece of what we've been talking about here. That the more you can really focus on loving and acknowledging who you are, the easier it will be to give that to others. Is there anything else Joan Claire, that you'd like to share with our listeners before we wrap up?

Oh, gosh, Meredith, you did just such a wonderful job of summing up I think what we said, I think, you know, you might have said this already, but it's like how you be with yourself is how you be with others. Or just, if you notice you're having some challenges in your relationships with the people out there around you in your in your household or at work, you know, shift the shift the lens backward, who you're being with yourself and To learn to acknowledge yourself and see your innocence, and focus on the good in yourself. And that'll transform how you see other people.

That's great. Well, how can people connect with you, Joan Claire and learn more about the work you're doing?

Yeah. So my website will be in the shownotes. It's John Clare coaching.com. And I also have my LinkedIn link, and my facebook link, if you want to look at my profile there. But you can find me also at up level at junkware coaching.com.

That's great. Well, thank you. So I'd love our listeners to connect with you, Joan, Claire Gilbert. Thank you so much, Jen, Claire, for the gift of you. At America with with me today and with our listeners, you've been such a gift to this community and you continue to be so and I want to acknowledge you for the contributions you're making and just who you are.

Thank you so much, Meredith. I love who you're being and your your generous listening. Every time I hear you, it's, I hear your presence of just absorbing all the gold and how you can share it with the world. So thank you for